Trolling for Patriot League Recruiting Needs

[carney2]

Recruiting time is here. I need to hear from knowledgeable Patriot League sources. What are your team's top 3 recruiting needs for this year? I shouldn't have to, but I remind you that we are talking about recruiting needs, not what your team needs for the 2009 season. Despite some obvious exceptions, it is still an unusual situation when a freshman steps in and makes a difference in his first year.

When/if the Patsy Ratings fly this year there will be one significant change. The committee reserves the right to subjectively add to or subtract from the final total if it feels that an injustice is about to occur. This change is brought about by last year's Georgetown number one rating when the Hoyas loaded up on QBs (which get by far the most points in the Patsy Rating system). Word is that Kelly knew he couldn't win the league, so he set out to outsmart the Patsy Committee and achieve a first place finish in something - anything - football.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

For Lehigh i would say
RB-Lehigh didn't have a second string RB last year after Warren went down. They used a FB and LB as the backup the last half of the year.
Secondary-still a weakness of the team. need some size and better ball skills
DL- hit hard by graduation. not too much proven depth

Special note- a consistent kicker!!!

[MDFAN]

For Bucknell I would say an O.C. is our number one need!!!

[TheValleyRaider]

Offensive Linemen: 4 of the 5 starters from '08 graduate, and while we'll have guys to step in, you definately want depth to shore up the position behind them

Wide Recievers: After Simonds, not a lot of great depth

Defensive Linemen: That could just be me looking for more depth on the lines, but there look to be a good number of Seniors for 2009

Secondary: Losing 2 Seniors, some more depth would be good

Kicker/Punter: I know you don't like hearing about kickers, or filling spots for 2009, but there aren't any on the roster. Wouldn't be surprised if Biddle fills this spot with a walkon, but that doesn't mean someone isn't out searching for a good leg somewhere...

In priority, I guess I'd go:
1-Wide Recievers
2-Offensive Line
3-Secondary

[Lehigh Football Nation]

For Lehigh i would say
RB-Lehigh didn't have a second string RB last year after Warren went down. They used a FB and LB as the backup the last half of the year.
Secondary-still a weakness of the team. need some size and better ball skills
DL- hit hard by graduation. not too much proven depth

Special note- a consistent kicker!!!

I'd say the tryouts are very, very open at P and K - and coach Coen will need to find at least one of each, with shots to play as freshmen. I'd almost put that as a need above DL, with Benning returning.

[DFW HOYA]

This change is brought about by last year's Georgetown number one rating when the Hoyas loaded up on QBs (which get by far the most points in the Patsy Rating system). Word is that Kelly knew he couldn't win the league, so he set out to outsmart the Patsy Committee and achieve a first place finish in something - anything - football.

Georgetown didn't recruit six QB's to all play inasmuch as Georgetown has to balance fewer buyouts and higher AI to compensate across the sample. Whereas Lafayette may have 20 buyouts in a year and Georgetown has four or five, players w/o buyouts signed for depth are not likely going to crack the two-deep regardless of position.

Georgetown has two legitimate QB prospects last season: Tucker Stafford (injured) and James Brady. The other four (Darby, Plebani, O'Leary, King) played sparingly...but depth was again an issue for the Hoyas and Kelly had to use five QB's this season.

[ngineer]

For Lehigh i would say
RB-Lehigh didn't have a second string RB last year after Warren went down. They used a FB and LB as the backup the last half of the year.
Secondary-still a weakness of the team. need some size and better ball skills
DL- hit hard by graduation. not too much proven depth

Special note- a consistent kicker!!!

I agree that RB is the #1 priority due to lack of depth that occured last year. So far, it appears the staff is attacking that area. I think you mean Walker getting hurt last year?
I think our secondary is less of a concern than making sure we have quality depth at WR. We lose three seniors and while there is good raw talent from all reports, no one is really as battle tested as we'd like. Receivers with good hands and who can run good routes are critical since we have some well-armed QBs. The two CBs were only sophs. There seem to be decent numbers of DBs per the roster.
DL will have some decent returnees. Keep in mind we have Phil Winett returning for three more years as he went down in August and didn't play a down. He had a great freshman year. In addition, BJ Benning returns as does Darrell Ray. Joe Dancho, Cody Connare and Andy Knapp got some action, but not sure how they translate into next year at the moment.
Jury is out on how good Randazza will be as PK., but remember Alex Smith out of FL is supposed to be pretty good.

So I would list our priority recruiting needs as:

1. Running Backs
2. Wide Receivers
3. Depth at DL

[GateRaider63]

Offensive Linemen: 4 of the 5 starters from '08 graduate, and while we'll have guys to step in, you definately want depth to shore up the position behind them

Wide Recievers: After Simonds, not a lot of great depth

Defensive Linemen: That could just be me looking for more depth on the lines, but there look to be a good number of Seniors for 2009

Secondary: Losing 2 Seniors, some more depth would be good

Kicker/Punter: I know you don't like hearing about kickers, or filling spots for 2009, but there aren't any on the roster. Wouldn't be surprised if Biddle fills this spot with a walkon, but that doesn't mean someone isn't out searching for a good leg somewhere...

In priority, I guess I'd go:
1-Wide Recievers
2-Offensive Line
3-Secondary

Transfers from D1 are a definite possibility as well as some solid recruits. I'm pretty surprised Biddle let it go this far without bringing a young guy in, but I'm sure there will be more than a couple new kickers that Biddle and Hunt will mold into solid guys. Biddle is usually pretty big on kickers since his son was a punter here. Stein was the only kicker on the roster going into camp this year so something tells me some recruits slipped through their grasp last year.

Walk ons are always a possibility.

[Lehigh74]

DL will have some decent returnees. Keep in mind we have Phil Winett returning for three more years as he went down in August and didn't play a down. He had a great freshman year. In addition, BJ Benning returns as does Darrell Ray. Joe Dancho, Cody Connare and Andy Knapp got some action, but not sure how they translate into next year at the moment.

Although Dancho was ranked pretty high on the pre-season depth chart, he was removed from the roster early in the season. I have no idea why and if there is a chance he will return next season. Paul Bode missed a season with an injury so he should be eligible for a 5th year if he chooses to
return. David Brown is a large body who saw a lot of time on the D line in 2008.

[RichH2]

We allagree RB is #1 FB next

afterthat dbs and wrs for some speed

OL and DL lots of bodies as at lb so not much need altho a couple of *** recruits anywhere would be nice

[HoyaMetanoia]

Georgetown: Good players.

[ngineer]

Although Dancho was ranked pretty high on the pre-season depth chart, he was removed from the roster early in the season. I have no idea why and if there is a chance he will return next season. Paul Bode missed a season with an injury so he should be eligible for a 5th year if he chooses to
return. David Brown is a large body who saw a lot of time on the D line in 2008.

You are correct, and that would be huge to have Bode back at one of the DE positions.

[ngineer]

We allagree RB is #1 FB next

afterthat dbs and wrs for some speed

OL and DL lots of bodies as at lb so not much need altho a couple of *** recruits anywhere would be nice

Yes for the long-term. We are well-stocked for next year at LB, but having 2-3 high notch kids recruited at that position this year is a must to keep the numbers.

[Fordham]

QB

DL

DB

[RichH2]

so far emphasis seems to be on skill positions but there are quite a few lbs listed for us. How many we will get? I would rather have one of those come in at fb where we have only 1 returning

[breezy]

For Holy Cross --

1. Running backs (very little depth as the two top RBs this year are graduating).

2. Defensive linemen (need to get bigger and stronger bodies along the defensive line).

3. Wide receiver (graduating two top receivers but the spread offense uses up to four receivers at a time so you need lots of them).

[ngineer]

so far emphasis seems to be on skill positions but there are quite a few lbs listed for us. How many we will get? I would rather have one of those come in at fb where we have only 1 returning

A couple of these guys do appear to be capable of going eithe LB or FB--especially one recently mentioned on the voy board.

[colorless raider]

Offensive Linemen: 4 of the 5 starters from '08 graduate, and while we'll have guys to step in, you definately want depth to shore up the position behind them

Wide Recievers: After Simonds, not a lot of great depth

Defensive Linemen: That could just be me looking for more depth on the lines, but there look to be a good number of Seniors for 2009

Secondary: Losing 2 Seniors, some more depth would be good

Kicker/Punter: I know you don't like hearing about kickers, or filling spots for 2009, but there aren't any on the roster. Wouldn't be surprised if Biddle fills this spot with a walkon, but that doesn't mean someone isn't out searching for a good leg somewhere...

In priority, I guess I'd go:
1-Wide Recievers
2-Offensive Line
3-Secondary

I think the order should be:

1-Kicker and punter
2-wide receivers
3-D Line
4-O line

[carney2]

For Holy Cross --

1. Running backs (very little depth as the two top RBs this year are graduating).

2. Defensive linemen (need to get bigger and stronger bodies along the defensive line).

3. Wide receiver (graduating two top receivers but the spread offense uses up to four receivers at a time so you need lots of them).

QB?

[crusader11]

QB?

I think Dom Randolph will suffice.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I think Dom Randolph will suffice.

Umm...i do believe Holy Cross will be fielding a football team in 2010 and unfortunately a cardboard cutout of Randolph isn't likely to do the trick. Florida is facing the same dilemma that same year. Besides maybe the next QB will actually win a league title.

[carney2]

I think Dom Randolph will suffice.

Please read the original post. The question is NOT what are your needs for 2009.

and

After 2009 (the period you should be looking at) Randolph will no longer be residing in WooMass. I would think that might be worrying some 'sader folks.

Unless someone can convince me otherwise, QB is the numero uno need for Holy Cross this recruiting season.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Please read the original post. The question is NOT what are your needs for 2009.

and

After 2009 (the period you should be looking at) Randolph will no longer be residing in WooMass. I would think that might be worrying some 'sader folks.

Unless someone can convince me otherwise, QB is the numero uno need for Holy Cross this recruiting season.

I agree - and you can knock off WR on the list of "recruiting needs" While HC always needs a stable of them for their pass-happy offense, their pipeline is clearly set in that area for now, IMO. QB is #1 - as in, which sophomore QB will be starting in 2010 once Mr. Randolph graduates in 2009.

[carney2]

No one has responded for Lafayette, so I will chum the waters:

1. A Playmaker. Don't care if he's a QB, a RB or a whatsit. There is a downright desperate need for someone on offense who will make things happen week in and week out and will cause sleepless nights for defensive coordinators. (Think Randolph. Think Eachus. Think, in my opinion, Lehigh's sophomore QB, Chris Lum.) It's a long term lease on middle of the pack without one.

2. RB. Must be big and durable to fit into the only offense that head coach Tavani and offensive coordinator Heffner know how to run. (Note to FT: Do not waste any more financial aid packages on RBs from Lilliput High School. Ditto for the tiny defensive linemen.)

3. TE. The stable is empty.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

No one has responded for Lafayette, so I will chum the waters:

1. A Playmaker. Don't care if he's a QB, a RB or a whatsit. There is a downright desperate need for someone on offense who will make things happen week in and week out and will cause sleepless nights for defensive coordinators. (Think Randolph. Think Eachus. Think, in my opinion, Lehigh's sophomore QB, Chris Lum.) It's a long term lease on middle of the pack without one.

2. RB. Must be big and durable to fit into the only offense that head coach Tavani and offensive coordinator Heffner know how to run. (Note to FT: Do not waste any more financial aid packages on RBs from Lilliput High School. Ditto for the tiny defensive linemen.)

3. TE. The stable is empty.

How about OL? I haven't looked at LC scientifically, but it seems like you guys have lost a bunch of great linemen over the last few years that were a big part of your success.

And you NEED durable RBs. That's been a M*A*S*H unit the past two years.

[breezy]

I'll respond to the QB question with respect to Holy Cross.

Dom Randolph's backup last year was Joe Kosich, who will be a senior this year.

HC has two highly regarded QBs who will be juniors this year -- Rob Koster (whom Lafayette fans will remember as the QB turned receiver who caught the winning TD pass from Randolph this past season) and Ryan Taggart from Texas.

Also, last year HC brought in two very highly regarded QBs -- Mark Tolzien from Illinois (a 2**) and Kevin Watson from New Jersey.

There are one or two other QBs on the roster as well.

In sum, after Randolph departs in 2009, there will be four candidates already on the roster to be the next QB -- Koster, Taggart, Tolzien and Watson.

I certainly expect there will be a couple of QBs in this year's recruiting class, but I think there is less depth at the other areas I mentioned as my choices for recruiting needs in this class.

[breezy]

I need to amend my prior post to some degree.

The 2009 Spring Roster is now posted on the HC athletics web site, and it shows Koster listed as a WR. To me, that's another indication that the HC staff sees WR as a bigger need right now than QB. Of course, he could always be moved back to QB depending on how this year's recruiting class turns out at the two positions.

[carney2]

How about OL? I haven't looked at LC scientifically, but it seems like you guys have lost a bunch of great linemen over the last few years that were a big part of your success.

And you NEED durable RBs. That's been a M*A*S*H unit the past two years.

OL would be number 4 on my list. Always a big need in a Tavani offense. There are 3 from last year who will be quite serviceable, and a few others also hanging around consuming huge quantities of cheeseburgers. The pipeline was ignored at one point. Here's hoping that it won't happen again.

I used the term "durable" in my RB writeup. Frank is very proud that his depth chart number 6 goes out there and takes a turn. Up in Row 43 all we see is a 170 lb. scatback type getting hammered by a 260 lb. DL and a 215 LB in some kind of a pincer movement. You can bet that the pile isn't being moved.

[Ken_Z]

D-line
O-line
offensive coordinator

[RichH2]

Ken I would gladly trade you ours for a box of oreos

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Ken I would gladly trade you ours for a box of oreos

I hope you don't mean our "O" line or "D" line... xlolx

[ngineer]

Yes, I am sure he was referring to OC...xsmhx

[LBPop]

Ken I would gladly trade you ours for a box of oreos

Georgetown could use some "Double Stuff". xnodxxnodx

[RichH2]

Yup, just being a wiseass , altho if he can keep the same perspective as the O had the last 1/2 of the season, I might want a dinner at Olive Garden and the Oreos.
Seriously he has 4 ** qbs to juggle, I hope he makes his pick early whether Clark or Lum and sticks with it.

Class going OK so far, lots of kids still on the fence. Must have rb and a fb at least

[ngineer]

Yup, just being a wiseass , altho if he can keep the same perspective as the O had the last 1/2 of the season, I might want a dinner at Olive Garden and the Oreos.
Seriously he has 4 ** qbs to juggle, I hope he makes his pick early whether Clark or Lum and sticks with it.

Class going OK so far, lots of kids still on the fence. Must have rb and a fb at least

From what I hear we have at least one very good RB,but I would like to see three. We were really thin toward end of last year. Lafayette used all six of their backs due to injuries. It is the most injury prone position in football.

[carney2]

Here’s what I have so far:

Bucknell:
1. Up front size (OL, blocking back, DL, LB)
2. DL
3. OL

Colgate:
1. WR
2. OL
3. DL

Fordham:
1. QB
2. DL
3. DB

Georgetown:
1. Quality at positions other than QB
2. OL
3. DL

Holy Cross:
1. QB
2. RB
3. DL

Lafayette:
1. Playmaker (any offensive skill position)
2. RB
3. OL

Lehigh:
1. RB
2. DB
3. WR

NOTE: Some of you mentioned kickers for one team or another. The Committee stands firm in its opinion that if one of your team’s 3 greatest needs is a kicker, you’re in great shape and shouldn’t be paying attention to any recruiting information or opinions.

We hit the wire sometime next week, so if you have additions/corrections/deletions, now is the time.

[Lehigh74]

My votes for Lehigh would be:

1. RB
2. WR
3. DL
4. DB

[CrusaderBob]

For Holy Cross I'll go with

O-Line - A lot of juniors and seniors there for '09

D-Line - We need defensive help, particularly rushing the QB & stopping the run.

Linebacker - See D-Line!

[carney2]

Tomorrow is letter of intent day, so the test is over. Turn in your papers. Based on past years, we can expect the first list of recruitees to be out and about by Friday.

I took CrusaderBob's comments into account, but when I stacked them up against what had been posted by other 'saders and ran it through my meager reasoning process, I decided that I like what I previously gave you.

Anyway, I see no changes being made from the list previously posted.

There will be three (hopefully minor) changes in this years methodology. An explanation of how this is done will be posted with the first, and only the first, ratings release.

Hey, I've cracked 2,000 posts at AGS. I really need to get a life.

[CrusaderBob]

OK. With regard to HC, let's recap:

1. breezy says RB, DL, & WR.

2. Carney questions the need for QB.

3. Crusader11 thinks Dom Randolph will be enough for the incoming class.

4. Carney rebuffs Crusader11 for not reading the direction and thinks QB is HC’s #1 need.

5. LFN chimes in that HC will need a sophomore to step in when Randolph graduates. I’m not sure why a current Freshman or Sophomore couldn’t step up as Junior or Senior in 2010, but that’s his opinion.

6. breezy disagrees on QB, thinking there will be enough at QB in the classes behind Dom Randolph to not make QB a top 3 priority for the incoming class.

7. I, as the only other Crusader fan providing input, implicitly agree with breezy and don't list QB as a top 3 priority, instead listing OL, DL, and LB.

You crank all the input through your “meager reasoning process” and you list QB as a priority need.

Carney sir, I think you vastly under rate your reasoning process!

Now - and here’s the kicker to this whole post - factor in, that, according to the 2008 Carney Patsy Recruiting Rankings, HC scored well for QB recruits - see Trigger Rating and Need in the link below:

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39457

And well, I just don’t see it being a top 3 need this year. Do I expect to see a QB or 2 on our list of recruits? Yes. But in terms of need, QB is not in the top 3. I think you need to check again.

[Ken_Z]

i take responsibility for this whole HC QB issue. i told Carney that HC needed a qb and everyone who's paying attention knows Carney hangs on my every word. in fact, now that i think about it, maybe listening to me is the meager reasoning process that he refers to and i should be insulted.

[carney2]

OK. With regard to HC, let's recap:

1. breezy says RB, DL, & WR.

2. Carney questions the need for QB.

3. Crusader11 thinks Dom Randolph will be enough for the incoming class.

4. Carney rebuffs Crusader11 for not reading the direction and thinks QB is HC’s #1 need.

5. LFN chimes in that HC will need a sophomore to step in when Randolph graduates. I’m not sure why a current Freshman or Sophomore couldn’t step up as Junior or Senior in 2010, but that’s his opinion.

6. breezy disagrees on QB, thinking there will be enough at QB in the classes behind Dom Randolph to not make QB a top 3 priority for the incoming class.

7. I, as the only other Crusader fan providing input, implicitly agree with breezy and don't list QB as a top 3 priority, instead listing OL, DL, and LB.

You crank all the input through your “meager reasoning process” and you list QB as a priority need.

Carney sir, I think you vastly under rate your reasoning process!

Now - and here’s the kicker to this whole post - factor in, that, according to the 2008 Carney Patsy Recruiting Rankings, HC scored well for QB recruits - see Trigger Rating and Need in the link below:

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39457

And well, I just don’t see it being a top 3 need this year. Do I expect to see a QB or 2 on our list of recruits? Yes. But in terms of need, QB is not in the top 3. I think you need to check again.


CBob, duly noted - and corrections made as follows:

1. DL (Breezy and Bob agree, albeit not as a number 1 need)
2. RB (Breezy's call here, but without Randolph, HC will need something to take the pressure off a diminished passing game)
3. OL (Bob's call, but it makes sense - again, in the absence of Randolph, it will take a total offense to make up for that specialized lost offensive fire power)

KenZ, duly noted - and ignored.

[bison137]

Bucknell:

OL
DL
RB
CB

[carney2]

Bucknell:

OL
DL
RB
CB

Bucknell:
1. Up front size (OL, blocking back, DL, LB)
2. DL
3. OL

Potentially some double counting here, but this team just needs to get bigger.

[MDFAN]

Bucknell:
1. Up front size (OL, blocking back, DL, LB)
2. DL
3. OL

Potentially some double counting here, but this team just needs to get bigger.

Don't forget our OC!!!!

[CrusaderBob]

CBob, duly noted - and corrections made as follows:

1. DL (Breezy and Bob agree, albeit not as a number 1 need)
2. RB (Breezy's call here, but without Randolph, HC will need something to take the pressure off a diminished passing game)
3. OL (Bob's call, but it makes sense - again, in the absence of Randolph, it will take a total offense to make up for that specialized lost offensive fire power)

KenZ, duly noted - and ignored.

OK Carney. I'll buy that. Your reasoning process has taken a nice step up in the past few hours!