So Long Pat... thanks for the Memories

[JMU DJ]

Pat "Manchine" Burrell is no longer a Phillie... he gave us 9 productive seasons and a world series... I'm sad to see him go

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3811501

http://blogs.phillynews.com/inquirer/zozone/pat%20burrell%20shirtless%202.jpg

DOES IBANEZ HAVE THAT PHILLIES MANAGEMENT!?!?!

[whitey]

Phillies look pretty bad here. They gave Ibanez 1 more year and $2MM+ more per year. Burrell and Ibanez are at best a wash but most consider Burrell a superior player to Ibanez. Oops. On the flip side this is an awesome deal for the Rays. They can now use Burrell as a DH and not get hurt by his poor fielding. Plus he kills lefties which is an area the Rays could use a little bit of improvement in.

[GannonFan]

See ya Pat. Hey, if he wouldn't have demanded such a big contract up front the Phils probably would've resigned him. As it turns out, he had to take a lesser contract anyway. I'll still take Ibanez over Burrell - having to watch those real long periods when the guy couldn't hit anything was always tough. And although Pat had all those walks, he took a lot of walks where a hit would've knocked in more people. Adios Pat (and Elvis).

[GannonFan]

Phillies look pretty bad here. They gave Ibanez 1 more year and $2MM+ more per year. Burrell and Ibanez are at best a wash but most consider Burrell a superior player to Ibanez. Oops. On the flip side this is an awesome deal for the Rays. They can now use Burrell as a DH and not get hurt by his poor fielding. Plus he kills lefties which is an area the Rays could use a little bit of improvement in.

At best a wash??? Come on, that's just a Mets fan talking. I know Burrell looked great against you guys, but you didn't need to watch him everyday. Ibanez is a big step up over Burrell - just a much more consistent threat at the plate. There will be few, if any, tears coming out of a Philly for a player that people genuinely liked, but was certainly expendable.

[ngineer]

At best a wash??? Come on, that's just a Mets fan talking. I know Burrell looked great against you guys, but you didn't need to watch him everyday. Ibanez is a big step up over Burrell - just a much more consistent threat at the plate. There will be few, if any, tears coming out of a Philly for a player that people genuinely liked, but was certainly expendable.

Good observation. Most people were always pulling for Burrell, but so horribly frustrating through his long slumps when not only did he not hit, but struck out without any productive outs. That's what the Rays showed in the WC--you can make outs and still be productive. The Phils could certrainly have lived with Burrell another couple years, but I see Ibanez as an overall upgrade.

[Grizalltheway]

Yikes, someone's letting their homo-erotic side show with that picture... :D

[Marcus Garvey]

[/B]

Good observation. Most people were always pulling for Burrell, but so horribly frustrating through his long slumps when not only did he not hit, but struck out without any productive outs. That's what the Rays showed in the WC--you can make outs and still be productive. The Phils could certrainly have lived with Burrell another couple years, but I see Ibanez as an overall upgrade.

I hope Ibanez can fill Pat's role in the lineup. Specifically, the Phils need someone to drive a .290 average down to .250 over the last 3 months of the season when the penant race heats up. xrolleyesx

[93henfan]

I hope Ibanez can fill Pat's role in the lineup. Specifically, the Phils need someone to drive a .290 average down to .250 over the last 3 months of the season when the penant race heats up. xrolleyesx

And ideally have no chance at hitting a right-hander's curve.

[JMU DJ]

Talk all the trash you want about Pat... he came up big when the Phillies needed him to. I specifically recall two games in the playoffs in which Pat single handily knocked in the runs that won the game or brought the phils back. Ibanez has what... 7 years on Pat? I like Ibanez, I'm just waiting to see how he turns out... he typically starts off slow and then picks it up if you look at his stats by the month. When Pat's taking off in Tampa next year and Ibanez needs a hip replacement we will miss him... if that doesn't happen, I'll eat some crow and applaud the phillies for actually making a good move.

[GannonFan]

Talk all the trash you want about Pat... he came up big when the Phillies needed him to. I specifically recall two games in the playoffs in which Pat single handily knocked in the runs that won the game or brought the phils back. Ibanez has what... 7 years on Pat? I like Ibanez, I'm just waiting to see how he turns out... he typically starts off slow and then picks it up if you look at his stats by the month. When Pat's taking off in Tampa next year and Ibanez needs a hip replacement we will miss him... if that doesn't happen, I'll eat some crow and applaud the phillies for actually making a good move.

Hey, I, along with many of the other Phillies posters on this board, have seen the vast majority of Pat Burrell's play for the 9 years he played for the Phils. And while many of us liked Pat, the truth is the guy was far from clutch most of the time - sure he came through every now and then, but he also didn't come through plenty of other times. And while people like to play up all the walks he drew, he also had an annoying habit of keeping the bat on his shoulder and drawing those walks when you want your power hitter swinging the bat and driving in runs.

No problem about Pat "taking off" down in Tampa next year - if he goes on a long stretch of big time production it will be the first time in his career, so I'm not holding my breath. And while Ibanez is older than Burrell, it's not like Burrell is a picture of physical fitness - there's a reason the guy is getting a DH gig and it's partly because he's breaking down and can't really play the field much anymore. Like I said, we all like Pat, but seeing him play as much as we have brings us to the conclusion that we're not losing much in the trade up to Ibanez.

[gmoney55]

Yea that's a pretty good trade up from Burrell to Ibanez...you lose a bit in the field with how bad Ibanez is out there but he's a better overall hitter and probably faster.

[whitey]

At best a wash??? Come on, that's just a Mets fan talking.

Actually no its not. This blogger is a Phillies fan (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-ultimate-headscratcher). And he lays out a very good case of why Ibanez is worse at both fielding and hitting when compared to Burrell.

I will admit though that the one problem with these arguments is that Burrell never would have come back to Philadelphia for the same money he got with Tampa (or probably even the money Ibanez got from the Phillies). Call it pride or stubbornness or foolishness or whatever you want. I just couldn't see him doing it.

[Marcus Garvey]

Talk all the trash you want about Pat... he came up big when the Phillies needed him to. I specifically recall two games in the playoffs in which Pat single handily knocked in the runs that won the game or brought the phils back. Ibanez has what... 7 years on Pat? I like Ibanez, I'm just waiting to see how he turns out... he typically starts off slow and then picks it up if you look at his stats by the month. When Pat's taking off in Tampa next year and Ibanez needs a hip replacement we will miss him... if that doesn't happen, I'll eat some crow and applaud the phillies for actually making a good move.

Your argument is merely that he's the Robert Horry of baseball. A lot of mediocre players have had clutch performances in the post season over the years. The fact remains though that Pat Burrell has failed to realize his full potential.

[JMU DJ]

Your argument is merely that he's the Robert Horry of baseball. A lot of mediocre players have had clutch performances in the post season over the years. The fact remains though that Pat Burrell has failed to realize his full potential.

For his career, averaging around 30 hr, 90 RBI... minus the batting average... regular season. That's a little above mediocre in my books. Ibanez numbers are about the same (if we are only talking about the last few years of his career) with a slightly better batting average plus he is worse in the field than Pat if you can believe it.

[whitey]

If you mean that because you are the first pick of the MLB draft and you don't turn into a superstar you haven't lived up to your full potential then I guess you are right. However, Pat Burrell is not a mediocre player. The guy has a career OPS+ of 119. A mediocre player would have a career OPS+ of 100.

[Marcus Garvey]

For his career, averaging around 30 hr, 90 RBI... minus the batting average... regular season. That's a little above mediocre in my books. Ibanez numbers are about the same (if we are only talking about the last few years of his career) with a slightly better batting average plus he is worse in the field than Pat if you can believe it.

I'm not arguing for Ibanez. I think he's a slight downgrade from Pat Burell. But because the Phils made poor choice of replacements does not in any way make Pat Burell better than he is.

What people are overlooking is that, over the course of a season he's frustratingly inconsistent. He's hot early, then fades. So yeah, he finishes with 30 HR and 90+ RBI's, but in July, August and Sept., he'll hit 10 HR's and got 35 RBI's, while batting .221. That's a liability during the penant race.

[whitey]

Pat Burrell career splits:

First Half: .257/.368/.483/.851
Second Half: .257 /.366/.487/.853

Wins in May count just as much as wins in September don't they? He might not seem as clutch in September because everyone is focused on the pennant races but if he is helping your team win in May and not doing as much in September I don't understand why Phillies fans hold that against him.

[JMU DJ]

I'm not arguing for Ibanez. I think he's a slight downgrade from Pat Burell. But because the Phils made poor choice of replacements does not in any way make Pat Burell better than he is.

What people are overlooking is that, over the course of a season he's frustratingly inconsistent. He's hot early, then fades. So yeah, he finishes with 30 HR and 90+ RBI's, but in July, August and Sept., he'll hit 10 HR's and got 35 RBI's, while batting .221. That's a liability during the penant race.

You could say the same about the Big Dog... but as long as he's hitting 40-50 hrs and 100+ RBI's it doesn't matter right?

[Marcus Garvey]

You could say the same about the Big Dog... but as long as he's hitting 40-50 hrs and 100+ RBI's is doesn't matter right?

Who the f--k is Big Dog?

[JMU DJ]

My bad... Ryan Howard

Note: Not the one from "The Office"

[Marcus Garvey]

My bad... Ryan Howard

Note: Not the one from "The Office"

I thought so. And by the way, I'm not a big fan of Ryan Howard's current trend of whiffing 180+ times a year with a dismal BA and mediocre OBP, despite 50 HR's and a boat load of RBI's. He won't be able to sustain those numbers for long. He's going to be a running joke along side Cecil Fielder and Dave Kingman at the rate he's going.

As for Burrell's numbers... wow. I checked them out and you're right. Excluding '08, he's pretty consistent in both halves of the season. I guess he's so damn frustrating at times, he seems worse. Regardless, don't let the door hit your arse on the way out Pat! This one has a "Bobby Abreu addition by subtraction" feel to it.

[bluehenbillk]

If Pat knew the economy was gonna tank he'd still be a Phil today. The Phils offered Burrell a 2-yr deal during the year for more money than he took with the Rays yesterday. Burrell just heard the lure of free agency & well, you see what he got....

[Marcus Garvey]

If Pat knew the economy was gonna tank he'd still be a Phil today. The Phils offered Burrell a 2-yr deal during the year for more money than he took with the Rays yesterday. Burrell just heard the lure of free agency & well, you see what he got....

It didn't help either that he batted .215/.313/.413 with 10 HR's and 29 RBI's in the 2nd half of '08.

The truth is that I didn't care one way or the other if he stayed in Philly or left.

[JMU DJ]

It didn't help either that he batted .215/.313/.413 with 10 HR's and 29 RBI's in the 2nd half of '08.

The truth is that I didn't care one way or the other if he stayed in Philly or left.

I'm just gonna wait this one out and see how things go. Pat always seemed to come up big when the rest of the team was slumping, though I will admit, when Pat got cold... he was cold (which is the frustrating part you mentioned). I want to see how Ibanez comes up in those moments... if he hasn't already broken a bone due to osteoporosis.


On a contract year note... you could tell it was a contract year when Pat actually ran a ball out to the left field wall and jumped up and into the wall to make a catch... I almost S$@& myself... but then I remembered it was a contract year.