Should Cal Poly hire a west coast/4-3 head coach?

[MplsBison]

Ellerson runs the "desert swarm", double eagle 3-4 defense and Paul Johnson's double wing, single back triple option offense.

Both of these schemes are very unique and it requires recruiting special athletes that are often overlooked by other schools.



So do you think that Poly should hire a head coach with a history of running a "normal" set of schemes (say west coast offense and a regular 4-3 defense) or should they try to get someone to run the same schemes?

[slostang]

NO. Cal Poly should hire DC Pyam Saadat or OC Ian Shields and continue with both the double eagle flex and triple option. They work and if they changed it would take three or four years to get players more suited for of a pro-style offense and defense.

[Grizalltheway]

I had no idea citdog was a Cal Poly fan. ;)

[slostang]

I had no idea citdog was a Cal Poly fan. ;)

As most have come to realize on this board, it is hard to get a point accross to MplsBison. xnodx

Also I feel very strong about hiring someone from the Ellerson coaching tree at Cal Poly. Alison Cone is a bright AD and I am sure this is also her thinking.

[hippy@GSU]

NO. Cal Poly should hire DC Pyam Saadat or OC Ian Shields and continue with both the double eagle flex and triple option. They work and if they changed it would take three or four years to get players more suited for of a pro-style offense and defense.

Yea, look at GSU.

[Proud Griz Man]

As most have come to realize on this board, it is hard to get a point accross to MplsBison. xnodx

Also I feel very strong about hiring someone from the Ellerson coaching tree at Cal Poly. Alison Cone is a bright AD and I am sure this is also her thinking.

That newspaper article I posted (other thread) indicates it is likely that coordinator Ian Shields will go with Rich to Army. Not true?

[slostang]

That newspaper article I posted (other thread) indicates it is likely that coordinator Ian Shields will go with Rich to Army. Not true?

My guess is that Ian Shields will follow Ellerson, but I do not know that.

[GATA]

Ellerson runs the "desert swarm", double eagle 3-4 defense and Paul Johnson's double wing, single back triple option offense.

Both of these schemes are very unique and it requires recruiting special athletes that are often overlooked by other schools.



So do you think that Poly should hire a head coach with a history of running a "normal" set of schemes (say west coast offense and a regular 4-3 defense) or should they try to get someone to run the same schemes?


Cal Poly absolutely should switch over to the west coast scheme if they're retarded and want to end up like Georgia Southern in 2006...brilliant idea.

You don't have to recruit "special" athletes to run the double slot option...you need fast guys...Nothing hard about recruiting fast guys.

[NoCoDanny]

Yes they should, his name is Scott Downing he is perfect for them! :)

[MplsBison]

If Cal Davis can run regular schemes and do well, then Poly can too.

I think its easier to tell a recruit who ran a regular scheme in high school that they will not have to learn a completely alien scheme in order to see the field.

[slostang]

If Cal Davis can run regular schemes and do well, then Poly can too.

I think its easier to tell a recruit who ran a regular scheme in high school that they will not have to learn a completely alien scheme in order to see the field.

Cal Poly 8-3, GWC Champions, three straight wins against Davis, and finishing the season ranked 8th/10th in 2008.

UC Davis 5-7, unranked during the season in 2008.


I think that Cal Poly's recruiting has been great while running the triple option and double eagle flex and hope they continue to do so. Ever hear of players like Jordan Beck, Chris Gocong, Kyle Shotwell Courtney Brown, Mark Restelli, Jonathan Dally, Ramses Barden, James Noble, Stephen Field and Tredale Tolver?

[GOKATS]

This is really a pretty stupid thread (but then I considered the source). Cal-Poly lost a helluva good coach and I wish the Mustangs the best in finding a replacement.xthumbsupx

The new HC will do whatever he thinks will work best for the program- there's no sense arguing about this or that.

[slostang]

This is really a pretty stupid thread (but then I considered the source). Cal-Poly lost a helluva good coach and I wish the Mustangs the best in finding a replacement.xthumbsupx

The new HC will do whatever he thinks will work best for the program- there's no sense arguing about this or that.

Maybe the new coach at Cal Poly can get Montana State back on the schedule. I miss not having MSU on the schedule.

[Poly Pigskin]

If Cal Davis can run regular schemes and do well, then Poly can too.

I think its easier to tell a recruit who ran a regular scheme in high school that they will not have to learn a completely alien scheme in order to see the field.

If we hire internally, which I think is likely, there's little reason to change schemes. Obviously it hasn't been a recruiting issue, so I don't know where you're coming up with that one. It takes many Cal Poly students 5 years to get a degree anyway, so redshirting for a student athlete is not a bad thing academically, and it also gives them time to learn these "alien schemes" (we're talking football, not rocket science, it ain't THAT hard).

[Pauly LB]

If Cal Davis can run regular schemes and do well, then Poly can too.

I think its easier to tell a recruit who ran a regular scheme in high school that they will not have to learn a completely alien scheme in order to see the field.

Why would Cal Poly want to abandon what is obviously working very well for them? AND, why would Cal Poly want to use UC Davis (they prefer that reference rather than "Cal Davis") as the posterchild when they have lost more than they have won for the past two seasons. True, the schemes are somewhat different than many are used to running in high school but then Cal Poly attracts excellent student athletes who are perfectly capable of learning the Cal Poly system.

Have you ever heard the term: "If it ain't broke -- don't fix it"...

[coover]

Poly needs to run whatever scheme best fits the athletes. Poly still has lots of guys who were recruited to run the Triple Option and the Desert Swarm and they should continue to run it for (at least) the next couple of years. Of course, a new Coach will modify the style over the years, and by the time he's been there for 3 to 5 years, he'll be able to replace the Ellerson style with his own.

Whatever style they play, I'm sure that Mustang Football will continue to be exciting and competitive. Be assured that FCS playoff fans will continue to see the Mustangs.

Poly does not have the recruiting advantage that Montana has, that is every little Montana boy grows up wanting to play football at Missoula, but it does have the advantage that California is full of excellent, Division I capable athletes that, for one reason or another are overlooked by FBS and they have few choices beyond Poly, Davis, Sacramento, maybe San Diego, and D II Humboldt. If you were a good football player and received no scholarship offers from the FBS schools, where would you go? Looking at the list, I see only two schools, Poly and Davis. The other schools have to take third best.

[Proud Griz Man]

Poly needs to run whatever scheme best fits the athletes. Poly does not have the recruiting advantage that Montana has, that is every little Montana boy grows up wanting to play football at Missoula, but it does have the advantage that California is full of excellent, Division I capable athletes that, for one reason or another are overlooked by FBS and they have few choices beyond Poly, Davis, Sacramento, maybe San Diego, and D II Humboldt. If you were a good football player and received no scholarship offers from the FBS schools, where would you go? Looking at the list, I see only two schools, Poly and Davis. The other schools have to take third best.
While the Griz are my #1 team, I see CPLO-SLO as my 2nd favor.

Interested to see how they progress with HC hire and expansion of the stadium. That program is ready to bloom.

[bpcats]

While it would be a benefit to hire a coach with the same philosophy/playbook for both the offense and defense the school opens itself up to not getting the best candidate that it could.

Just make sure that any coach you hire has the following qualities:

1) Can teach or coach up the players
2) Can recruit
3) Has the contacts to assemble a quality staff including strength and conditioning coach (makes a big difference)
4) Can follow through on academic standards and keeps tabs on players grades


No matter who Cal Poly hires, I'm sure that there will a few problems will arise in that first year.

Eastern Washington hired their old O/C and while the offense clicked he changed the defense and went from 3-3-5 to a 4-3 which took them half the year to adjust to.

When Ash took over in the fall 07 he implemented more of a spread option offense and changed the defense from a 3-3-5 to a traditional 4-3. The defense remained tough but the offense struggled at times. We also had to recruit a different type of quarterback...and we are still searching.

Get a good coach no matter the philosophy and rest will work itself out.

[MplsBison]

While it would be a benefit to hire a coach with the same philosophy/playbook for both the offense and defense the school opens itself up to not getting the best candidate that it could.

Just make sure that any coach you hire has the following qualities:

1) Can teach or coach up the players
2) Can recruit
3) Has the contacts to assemble a quality staff including strength and conditioning coach (makes a big difference)
4) Can follow through on academic standards and keeps tabs on players grades


No matter who Cal Poly hires, I'm sure that there will a few problems will arise in that first year.

Eastern Washington hired their old O/C and while the offense clicked he changed the defense and went from 3-3-5 to a 4-3 which took them half the year to adjust to.

When Ash took over in the fall 07 he implemented more of a spread option offense and changed the defense from a 3-3-5 to a traditional 4-3. The defense remained tough but the offense struggled at times. We also had to recruit a different type of quarterback...and we are still searching.

Get a good coach no matter the philosophy and rest will work itself out.


Great post.



All these Poly fans think that a new head coach is going to conform to exactly what the previous head coach did are sorely mistaken.


Every HC has his own schemes he likes to run and his own identity.


The next HC at Poly, whether internal or external, is going to want to get out of Ellerson's massive shadow and quick!




I think Poly will receive a LOT of very qualified candidates external to the program and they probably need to hire outside of Ellerson's staff to see the next phase of growth and success take place at Poly.



Don't think you can get away running the exact same thing forever. Eventually people catch up to you and pass you up if you do that.


Keep in mind that Ellerson was good at taking a very talented Poly team to the playoffs, but he would lose in the playoffs.


Poly has yet to take that next step and it might be the right time for a mix up to stimulate that growth!

[ndsubison]

Wow, MPLS, so when is ESPN going to offer you a job as an analyst? xwhistlex I think Cal Poly will be fine with whatever they decide to do. They are a fine program and their fans, in my experiences, are nothing but class. Poly might have lost in the playoffs but at least they made the playoffs. I must have missed the Bison making the playoffs this year???xsmhx I too like to keep up on things with our old GWFC foe(s) but I think NDSU fans would be better served worrying about what kind of season the Bison will have next year as we have plenty to be concerned about on our own end. Either way, best of luck to Poly on your endeavors and good luck in 2009--beyond.

[813Jag]

Great post.



All these Poly fans think that a new head coach is going to conform to exactly what the previous head coach did are sorely mistaken.


Every HC has his own schemes he likes to run and his own identity.


The next HC at Poly, whether internal or external, is going to want to get out of Ellerson's massive shadow and quick!




I think Poly will receive a LOT of very qualified candidates external to the program and they probably need to hire outside of Ellerson's staff to see the next phase of growth and success take place at Poly.



Don't think you can get away running the exact same thing forever. Eventually people catch up to you and pass you up if you do that.


Keep in mind that Ellerson was good at taking a very talented Poly team to the playoffs, but he would lose in the playoffs.


Poly has yet to take that next step and it might be the right time for a mix up to stimulate that growth!
How do you know this? Are you some omnipotent being that knows what every person in the world thinks? xconfusedx

[813Jag]

All of Bison's points on AGS:
1. All FCS teams should have artificial turf -- real grass is for losers
2. There should be no private schools in FCS, they all belong in D-III
3. It is somehow "illegitimate" for schools to have admission standards for their athletes, even if they are below the average student body.
-Frank Tanks
4. Bison are the best FCS team ever!
-Grizzaholic
5. I don't believe in arresting people for drunk driving
6. No one has even brought up the source of this problem: the nazi fargo police.
7. After that we ran an offense that consisted of handing the ball off to Gordon and saying 'run you stupid son of b*tch run! go!'
8. They killed UNA last year in the same way that we're going to kill Cn this year and embarrass southern football once again.
9. There needs to be a law that says the media can't get ahold of any police documents.
10. Endless debates about NDSU's and Cal Poly SLO's real names.
11. Endless debates about which defense Carson-Newman really runs... with an ex-Carson-Newman defensive back!
12. A couple hundred mentions of Field Turf/Sprinturf.
13. I don't think CN will be much competition, sadly. I'd put them about on par with Mankato State.
14. I was very suprised you got 11000 for MT! I figured you'd barely break 8000. Strange choice of pronouns...
15. I have mainly teams like Valpo in mind. They're in DI and offer no scholarships, thus they suck!
16. Some sort of axe to grind with Tyler Roehl... about 20 posts worth.
17. I can't believe you guys can call Gold Star a marching band with a straight face.
18. Combative tones with every, example: Neither of you have any idea what it would cost. You don't work in construction and you can't even agree on what exactly needs to be done. Just shut up.
19. The Great Time Zone Debate.
20. SID - whatever. I don't really care if we have one or not. It sounds to me like the job could be filled by an automated phone system.
21. This is completely incomprehensable. It's utter nonsense. Example of a typical response to other posters.
22. The band is a distraction. Football fans are there to see football.
23. The Great Fly Or Drive From MSP Debate.
24. The Ad Hominem remains a noun.. Debate.
25. This looks nice in the papers, but who the hell gives a **** how well our team does academically?
26. Heard Parsons had a bad game (lucky long pass to a DIA receiver who happened to catch it) and looked very bad @ qb as a passer. Hopefully he will be better @ D-back
27. HELLO! Your ancestors moved to the cities 25 years ago. Get with the program and leave the farming to the corporations!
28. In other words...you have nothing to say that could possibly make the Big Sky seem worthy.
29. The NCAA is a power-greedy authoritarian agency who cares more amount the semantics of their titles than they do about their athletes. - explanation of why he insisted on spelling DI as D followed by a 1.
30. Mid con is our best bet; repeat 150 times for full effect.
31. Screw the Big Suck. The only reason i dog them so much is that i knew they never wanted us in the first place and that's been confirmed now.
32. Corporation farming is 1000x better than family farms for prices.
33. Like i said before.... privatize the athletic department and simply make an affiliation with the university.
34. Just because NDSU is a land-grant doesn't mean jack because they're a land-grant in a state which is near last in population.
35. BTW...what the hell!? Who cares about academics!
36. The Great Trajectory of the Hail Mary Debate.
37. Land area is the ONLY adequate criteria; Don't know what this was about, but it sounds stupid.
38. The Great Geography Debate: Nice try, but The line of ND-SD-NE-KS-OK is in the eastern half of the USA.
38. Like i said, STICK IT TO THE GOVERNMENT.
39. Montana State and Montana in one season?
That's too many mountain hill-billies top play at once.
40. Like i've said before, some people enjoy a quieter relaxed envirenment at the games. You have no right to yell excessivly if someone feels that that you're too loud. Sure they could always move...but so could you.
-FargoBison
41. If you have a track around your field, you're nothing but a high school team.
-Appinator
42. NDSU should never schedule less than six home games
-TexasTerror
43. Kick Indiana State out of the Gateway so UND can join.
-Bears Country
44. Any team that averages over 20,000 @ home games should move up to I-A.
-AzGrizFan
45. NDSU should be in the playoffs despite being on it's probationary period because they'll win it all and should be ranked #1 in all the end-year polls and be National Champions.
-T-Dog
46. If you don't give out the maximum 63 scholarships, move down to a lower division where you belong.
-Andy7171
47. No team should wear anything that's not made by Nike.
-813Jag
48. No team should wear Uni's that are plain.
-Franks Tanks
49. You may spend $50 million on your program, but it is a numbers game. Its about the numbers you fund, not about the money fund. That is until it is a money game and not a numbers game.
-gopheonix
50. Any offense that is not a Pro Style is wrong. Everyone else needs to conform NOW!
-bobbythekidd
51. Schools shouldn't sponsor unimportant sports like Swimming, Tennis, and Field Hockey. Schools should only sponsor the most popular and potentialy profitable sports. All other sports should be club.
52. All D-I sports are a business and should be treated as such.
-Franks Tanks
53. College athletics aren't clubs, they are businesses and any sport that doesn't draw fans to self support should be disbanded.
54. Any NAIA school in North Dakota should be a junior college to prep people to go to UND or NDSU.
-gopheonix
55. Don't forget that if a public school does not maintain an enrollment of more than 20k then it has no business being a public school.
-Touchdown Yosef
56. Also, there is no more need for books to be inside libraries. Libraries should just be computer-based database centers. BURN ALL THE BOOKS!!!
57. Engineers are way more talented and worth much more to society than architects.
-TheBisonator
58. Georgia State is offically GSU and Georgia Southern is offically GSoU.
-813Jag
59. People who go to UMass Boston don't say "I went to UMass Boston". They say "I went to UMass".
-Col Hogan
60. Fargodome just needs to remove the big columns in all four corners to accommodate more seating.
-swaghook
61. Spring practice is useless.
-813Jag
62. He is against crowned fields.
-andy7171
63. It's a conspiracy by App to keep UNCG from fielding a football team.
-proasu89
NEW
64. All schools should be private if their demographics don't match their state's demographics.
65. No team should have Gray facemasks if Gray isn't a uniform color.
66. The SWAC and Ivy league can make the playoffs if they schedule better.

[slostang]

All of Bison's points on AGS:
1. All FCS teams should have artificial turf -- real grass is for losers
2. There should be no private schools in FCS, they all belong in D-III
3. It is somehow "illegitimate" for schools to have admission standards for their athletes, even if they are below the average student body.
-Frank Tanks
4. Bison are the best FCS team ever!
-Grizzaholic
5. I don't believe in arresting people for drunk driving
6. No one has even brought up the source of this problem: the nazi fargo police.
7. After that we ran an offense that consisted of handing the ball off to Gordon and saying 'run you stupid son of b*tch run! go!'
8. They killed UNA last year in the same way that we're going to kill Cn this year and embarrass southern football once again.
9. There needs to be a law that says the media can't get ahold of any police documents.
10. Endless debates about NDSU's and Cal Poly SLO's real names.
11. Endless debates about which defense Carson-Newman really runs... with an ex-Carson-Newman defensive back!
12. A couple hundred mentions of Field Turf/Sprinturf.
13. I don't think CN will be much competition, sadly. I'd put them about on par with Mankato State.
14. I was very suprised you got 11000 for MT! I figured you'd barely break 8000. Strange choice of pronouns...
15. I have mainly teams like Valpo in mind. They're in DI and offer no scholarships, thus they suck!
16. Some sort of axe to grind with Tyler Roehl... about 20 posts worth.
17. I can't believe you guys can call Gold Star a marching band with a straight face.
18. Combative tones with every, example: Neither of you have any idea what it would cost. You don't work in construction and you can't even agree on what exactly needs to be done. Just shut up.
19. The Great Time Zone Debate.
20. SID - whatever. I don't really care if we have one or not. It sounds to me like the job could be filled by an automated phone system.
21. This is completely incomprehensable. It's utter nonsense. Example of a typical response to other posters.
22. The band is a distraction. Football fans are there to see football.
23. The Great Fly Or Drive From MSP Debate.
24. The Ad Hominem remains a noun.. Debate.
25. This looks nice in the papers, but who the hell gives a **** how well our team does academically?
26. Heard Parsons had a bad game (lucky long pass to a DIA receiver who happened to catch it) and looked very bad @ qb as a passer. Hopefully he will be better @ D-back
27. HELLO! Your ancestors moved to the cities 25 years ago. Get with the program and leave the farming to the corporations!
28. In other words...you have nothing to say that could possibly make the Big Sky seem worthy.
29. The NCAA is a power-greedy authoritarian agency who cares more amount the semantics of their titles than they do about their athletes. - explanation of why he insisted on spelling DI as D followed by a 1.
30. Mid con is our best bet; repeat 150 times for full effect.
31. Screw the Big Suck. The only reason i dog them so much is that i knew they never wanted us in the first place and that's been confirmed now.
32. Corporation farming is 1000x better than family farms for prices.
33. Like i said before.... privatize the athletic department and simply make an affiliation with the university.
34. Just because NDSU is a land-grant doesn't mean jack because they're a land-grant in a state which is near last in population.
35. BTW...what the hell!? Who cares about academics!
36. The Great Trajectory of the Hail Mary Debate.
37. Land area is the ONLY adequate criteria; Don't know what this was about, but it sounds stupid.
38. The Great Geography Debate: Nice try, but The line of ND-SD-NE-KS-OK is in the eastern half of the USA.
38. Like i said, STICK IT TO THE GOVERNMENT.
39. Montana State and Montana in one season?
That's too many mountain hill-billies top play at once.
40. Like i've said before, some people enjoy a quieter relaxed envirenment at the games. You have no right to yell excessivly if someone feels that that you're too loud. Sure they could always move...but so could you.
-FargoBison
41. If you have a track around your field, you're nothing but a high school team.
-Appinator
42. NDSU should never schedule less than six home games
-TexasTerror
43. Kick Indiana State out of the Gateway so UND can join.
-Bears Country
44. Any team that averages over 20,000 @ home games should move up to I-A.
-AzGrizFan
45. NDSU should be in the playoffs despite being on it's probationary period because they'll win it all and should be ranked #1 in all the end-year polls and be National Champions.
-T-Dog
46. If you don't give out the maximum 63 scholarships, move down to a lower division where you belong.
-Andy7171
47. No team should wear anything that's not made by Nike.
-813Jag
48. No team should wear Uni's that are plain.
-Franks Tanks
49. You may spend $50 million on your program, but it is a numbers game. Its about the numbers you fund, not about the money fund. That is until it is a money game and not a numbers game.
-gopheonix
50. Any offense that is not a Pro Style is wrong. Everyone else needs to conform NOW!
-bobbythekidd
51. Schools shouldn't sponsor unimportant sports like Swimming, Tennis, and Field Hockey. Schools should only sponsor the most popular and potentialy profitable sports. All other sports should be club.
52. All D-I sports are a business and should be treated as such.
-Franks Tanks
53. College athletics aren't clubs, they are businesses and any sport that doesn't draw fans to self support should be disbanded.
54. Any NAIA school in North Dakota should be a junior college to prep people to go to UND or NDSU.
-gopheonix
55. Don't forget that if a public school does not maintain an enrollment of more than 20k then it has no business being a public school.
-Touchdown Yosef
56. Also, there is no more need for books to be inside libraries. Libraries should just be computer-based database centers. BURN ALL THE BOOKS!!!
57. Engineers are way more talented and worth much more to society than architects.
-TheBisonator
58. Georgia State is offically GSU and Georgia Southern is offically GSoU.
-813Jag
59. People who go to UMass Boston don't say "I went to UMass Boston". They say "I went to UMass".
-Col Hogan
60. Fargodome just needs to remove the big columns in all four corners to accommodate more seating.
-swaghook
61. Spring practice is useless.
-813Jag
62. He is against crowned fields.
-andy7171
63. It's a conspiracy by App to keep UNCG from fielding a football team.
-proasu89
NEW
64. All schools should be private if their demographics don't match their state's demographics.
65. No team should have Gray facemasks if Gray isn't a uniform color.
66. The SWAC and Ivy league can make the playoffs if they schedule better.

Classic!!!xthumbsupx

[slostang]

I actually think MplsBison may be right this one time. I would prefer that Cal Poly hires one of their coordinators so they win now with the athletes on the roster, but if a outstanding coach is available he should be hired regardless of what type of O and D he will run.

[813Jag]

Classic!!!xthumbsupx
all credit goes to bobbythekidd

[Grizalltheway]

all credit goes to bobbythekidd

Jesus that guy has a lot of time on his hands. xrolleyesx :p

[McNeese75]

all credit goes to bobbythekidd

xlolx That is quite a list. I see a future for Bobby riding a sleigh around with some reindeer and a big bag :D

[Stang Fever]

NO. Cal Poly should hire DC Pyam Saadat or OC Ian Shields and continue with both the double eagle flex and triple option. They work and if they changed it would take three or four years to get players more suited for of a pro-style offense and defense.

AGREED!!!!

[bobbythekidd]

Jesus that guy has a lot of time on his hands. xrolleyesx :p
True enough

xlolx That is quite a list. I see a future for Bobby riding a sleigh around with some reindeer and a big bag :D
It's Bob dammit!!xmadx

[McNeese75]

True enough

It's Bob dammit!!xmadx

You got it, Bob Claus