The most underachieving league: Southland

[JohnStOnge]

I'm talking this angle because of talent base. At the end of this text I'm going to post a graphic from a 2004 Rivals article at http://rivals100.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=259347 providing visual perspective on NFL player production at that time. If you look at it you will see that the area in which Southland schools reside...basically East Texas, Louisiana, and now one outlier in northern Arkansas...is about as "dense" as it gets in terms of NFL talent production than any area ecompasing any other FCS auto bid league. This more recent article, updated October 2008, is basically consistent with that picture:

http://www.usafootball.com/articles/displayArticle/6332/6395

I went to the Census Bureau site so I could rank the top 14 producing States listed in the October 2008 article by production density in terms of NFL players per 1 million population. Here's the result:

Louisiana 17.0
Mississippi 13.7
South Carolina 11.6
Alabama 10.4
Florida 10.3
Georgia 8.7
Virginia 7.9
Ohio 7.8
Texas 7.1
California 5.9
Michigan 5.7
North Carolina 4.5
Pennsylvania 3.8
Illinois 3.0

Four of the top 14 producing cities listed, Houston, Baton Rouge, New Orleans, and Dallas, are in the East Texas/South Louisiana region. Houston, right in Sam Houston State's back yard, is the second most productive city behind Miami...and not by much.

It doesn't get any better than the area the Southland is in as far as football talent production goes. So why is it that the Southland can't do a better job of competing on the national level? Why is it that schools in places like New Hampshire and Montana field better football teams than schools in places like east Texas and Louisiana? I have theories but I'll hold onto them for now. What's interesting to me is that it looks to me that the MEAC, because of Bethune Cookman and Florida A&M being where they are, is the only auto bid league that appears to have an area encompassing talent density equal to or greater than that encompassing the Southland and it also has problems being nationally competetive.

http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/1014/134318.jpg

[TexasTerror]

Thoughts...

1) Everyone and their mother is now recruiting in the state of Texas. Every coach will tell you that there's more competition than ever in the state. Throw in Lamar (Div I), Incarnate Word (Div II) and soon UTSA (Div I) and we've had all these new programs only hurt that. Every FBS team and most every FCS team is pounding the pavement in Texas.

2) Because of point #1, Sam Houston State is recruiting further in West Texas and in 'regions' of Texas that they had not done previously. They are trying to get into new areas and find players that can play at this level, that may be overlooked. Not sure if it's a good idea or not. Really have not seen what kind of players/talent we've gotten from it.

[JohnStOnge]

Thoughts...

1) Everyone and their mother is now recruiting in the state of Texas. Every coach will tell you that there's more competition than ever in the state. Throw in Lamar (Div I), Incarnate Word (Div II) and soon UTSA (Div I) and we've had all these new programs only hurt that. Every FBS team and most every FCS team is pounding the pavement in Texas.

2) Because of point #1, Sam Houston State is recruiting further in West Texas and in 'regions' of Texas that they had not done previously. They are trying to get into new areas and find players that can play at this level, that may be overlooked. Not sure if it's a good idea or not. Really have not seen what kind of players/talent we've gotten from it.

I think there's still more relatively local talent available to a school like Sam Houston or McNeese than there is to most FCS teams in a league like the CAA. However, I think schools like those in the CAA have an advantage in that they can recruit nationally.

Take Richmond for instance. According to the roster at http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/teams/rrc , 44 percent of Spider players were from states other than Virginia or any of the states bordering on Virginia. Twenty two percent of them (19) were from the top 5 producing States (California, Florida, Texas, Ohio, Georgia).

In contrast, McNeese has zero players from outside of Louisiana or bordering states and only one player (from Mississippi) that isn't either from Louisiana or Texas. Sam Houston State only has 9 players that aren't from Texas or bordering states and only 10 that aren't from Texas.

But I think a school like Richmond has a higher profile and can do that.

It's a double edged sword. I like the fact that when McNeese does well it does so exlusively or almost exclusively with players that are from towns within a few hours drive from Lake Charles. But it's true that they would be better if they could supplement what they get from that rich local talent base with a few "difference makers" from afar. But I don't think they have the budget or profile to do that.

[JohnStOnge]

Thoughts...

1) Everyone and their mother is now recruiting in the state of Texas. Every coach will tell you that there's more competition than ever in the state. Throw in Lamar (Div I), Incarnate Word (Div II) and soon UTSA (Div I) and we've had all these new programs only hurt that. Every FBS team and most every FCS team is pounding the pavement in Texas.

2) Because of point #1, Sam Houston State is recruiting further in West Texas and in 'regions' of Texas that they had not done previously. They are trying to get into new areas and find players that can play at this level, that may be overlooked. Not sure if it's a good idea or not. Really have not seen what kind of players/talent we've gotten from it.

I think there's still more relatively local talent available to a school like Sam Houston or McNeese than there is to most FCS teams in a league like the CAA. However, I think schools like those in the CAA have an advantage in that they can recruit nationally.

Take Richmond for instance. According to the roster at http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/teams/rrc , 44 percent of Spider players (38 of 86 if I counted right) were from states other than Virginia or any of the states bordering on Virginia. Twenty two percent of them (19) were from the top 5 producing States (California, Florida, Texas, Ohio, Georgia).

In contrast, McNeese has zero players from outside of Louisiana or bordering states and only one player (from Mississippi) that isn't either from Louisiana or Texas. Sam Houston State only has 9 players that aren't from Texas or bordering states and only 10 that aren't from Texas.

But I think a school like Richmond has a higher profile and can do that.

It's a double edged sword. I like the fact that when McNeese does well it does so exlusively or almost exclusively with players that are from towns within a few hours drive from Lake Charles. But it's true that they would be better if they could supplement what they get from that rich local talent base with a few "difference makers" from afar. But I don't think they have the budget or profile to do that.

[TexasTerror]

The fact SHSU has 10 players outside of Texas speaks volumes of the fact that we have been forced to recruit outside of our "base". It was just a few years ago, that we had no out of state players. I bet the 2004 NCAA semifinal roster may have had two guys from out of Texas, at max -- if any!

[Chi Panther]

Maybe it also has to do with the number of I-A/BCS teams in Texas and Louisiana. I would have to think there are more I-A schools in Texas, Louisiana and Ohio per capita than most states....and unfortunately FCS schools can suffer from this.

I also think D/FW loses tons of talent nationwide.

UNI has the luxury of recruiting Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, KC and St. Louis without ridiculous competition from other FCS schools. Minnesota and Wisconsin will become more competitive with the Dakotas. St. Louis is always tough with WIU and SIU, but the OVC schools don't get great talent there. ILL State owns chicago so we stay out.

[Tim James]

Southland was severly hurt by a few of its teams moving up to I-A. If those teams were still there it would still be a top 3 league IMO. They still havent recovered from when they were reduced to 7 teams which was their lowest point as a conference. Now the Big Sky was also very weakened when they lost Nevada, Boise and Idaho but they seem to have recovered a lot better than the SLC maybe because Montana carrys the conference and Mc Neese isnt carrying the SLC in a similar way.

[GATA]

Thoughts...

1) Everyone and their mother is now recruiting in the state of Texas. Every coach will tell you that there's more competition than ever in the state. Throw in Lamar (Div I), Incarnate Word (Div II) and soon UTSA (Div I) and we've had all these new programs only hurt that. Every FBS team and most every FCS team is pounding the pavement in Texas.

2) Because of point #1, Sam Houston State is recruiting further in West Texas and in 'regions' of Texas that they had not done previously. They are trying to get into new areas and find players that can play at this level, that may be overlooked. Not sure if it's a good idea or not. Really have not seen what kind of players/talent we've gotten from it.

I agree that most FBS teams are probably recruiting in Texas but I don't know about FCS. I know for a fact that GSU only recruits Georgia, Florida and South Carolina. Once in a blue moon we'll have somebody from some random state, but I think those are the only states we actively recruit. I'm pretty sure the rest of the SOCON outside of Wofford probably recruits the same way...mainly the Carolinas and Georgia.

[BearsCountry]

UNI has the luxury of recruiting Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, KC and St. Louis without ridiculous competition from other FCS schools. Minnesota and Wisconsin will become more competitive with the Dakotas. St. Louis is always tough with WIU and SIU, but the OVC schools don't get great talent there. ILL State owns chicago so we stay out.

We need to get you guys out of Missouri sort of like Mizzou did with Nebraska.

[Bearkats94]

There is 8 division I university in the East Texas area that mite be why it is hard on the SLC SMU, TCU, Rice, Houston, North Texas, A&M, SFA, Sam, and now Lamar. Then you have countless number of D II schools in the same area. Then you count all the other schools from around the country we don't have a chance.

[gokats85]

There is 8 division I university in the East Texas area that mite be why it is hard on the SLC SMU, TCU, Rice, Houston, North Texas, A&M, SFA, Sam, and now Lamar. Then you have countless number of D II schools in the same area. Then you count all the other schools from around the country we don't have a chance.

With all due respects 94, I'm not buying it. There is so much talent around in Texas. That said, there is NO EXCUSE for not getting out and busting your butt on the recruiting trail. Plain and simple. That is the biggest problem we have at SHSU right now.

[SUjagTILLiDIE]

I think the SWAC is the most underachieving league. We are basically in the same recruiting area as the southland, and have better name recognition.

[eaglesrthe1]

I think the SWAC is the most underachieving league. We are basically in the same recruiting area as the southland, and have better name recognition.

Probably hurt some by the HBCU moniker when it comes to recruiting white talent, however.

[txstatebobcat]

Its got to be recruiting in my opinion.

Texas has close to 500 student athletes sign LOI to both FBS and FCS institutions every year.

Of those 500, the top 25 (if not less than that) of them are difference makers. The ability to get these type of players is what separate the perennial top 10 FBS programs from the rest of the pack. Here in Texas the two main programs would be University of Texas and Oklahoma University with an occasional player going to some other storied program around the nation.

The next batch: 26-75 lets say, are still awesome players. Most of these players go to the UTs, OUs of the world but you start to see some going to schools on a slightly lower level (Texas A&M, Texas Tech etc.) Every once in a long while you may see one of these type players sign with a FCS school, that's pretty rare though.

76-300: These are all good players. I once read from a respected recruiting analyst that, despite the rankings, there really isn't much difference between this players. Here in Texas about 70-80% of these players will sign with FBS schools mainly from around the state with a few dozen going to out of state FBS programs. The other 20-30% will sign with FCS schools mainly from here in state, although SLC and SWAC out state schools will get some as well.

301-500: The players here are probably good football players but are undersized, came from small schools and as such were lightly recruited. Most will sign with FCS programs and some non-bcs conference FBS team. Some of these players will develop and become awesome football players, most

IMO, a successfull FCS program has to recruit from the top 76-300 players. The problem is that the competition for these players is fierce, Texas SLC schools have to fight dozens of FBS schools to get some of these players. Things get worse when one of the big boys lose on some recruit and have to go to their "plan b". I know TxSt lost several excellent players in this manner and I'm sure the same thing has happened to the other SLC and SWAC schools.

Once you add the fact that some positions are harder to recruit, D-line for example, and things can get tough for SLC schools. That's why I've always advocated that SLC schools should go out of state for certain positions.

[TXST_CAT]

IMO Coach Wright has done a kickass job recruiting and will continue to build this program the Wright way. TXST is starting to show it is the Premier FCS program in Texas and has done a great job beating McNeese the last several years. I think we should start recruiting La also. So far we have recruits from TX, and CA. With over 90% being Texas HS recruits. The quality of our athletes has also improved with several 3 star recruits. We have had a few battles with programs like UH, Rice, UTEP, and SMU and came out on top. I don't know what the coaches are saying but it's working and we expect this next class to be just as good if not better than last years. xthumbsupx

[UNIFanSince1983]

With all due respects 94, I'm not buying it. There is so much talent around in Texas. That said, there is NO EXCUSE for not getting out and busting your butt on the recruiting trail. Plain and simple. That is the biggest problem we have at SHSU right now.

I am going to have to agree with this. A player like Fred Jackson wasn't recruited out of high school by DI schools. He ended up at Coe College a DIII school in Iowa (lived down the hall from me his senior year which was my freshman year). And now look he is in the NFL getting plenty of playing time for the Buffalo Bills. There is no reason he shouldn't have been playing DI, and definitely should have never gotten out of the state of Texas.

It just shows if you work hard enough there is more than enough talent in Texas.

[TXST_CAT]

I am going to have to agree with this. A player like Fred Jackson wasn't recruited out of high school by DI schools. He ended up at Coe College a DIII school in Iowa (lived down the hall from me his senior year which was my freshman year). And now look he is in the NFL getting plenty of playing time for the Buffalo Bills. There is no reason he shouldn't have been playing DI, and definitely should have never gotten out of the state of Texas.

It just shows if you work hard enough there is more than enough talent in Texas.


I don't know anything about Coe College, But I do know there are lots of fine athletes lost to grades every year. They go the JC route and get discovered else where. One thing about TX HS athletes is too many of them think they don't have to work in the classroom. xsmhx

[UNIFanSince1983]

Understandable, but Fred was not one of those kids. Coe is actually a very tough college to get into as it is a private institution. I just used that for an example because I know him and his twin brother (who is quite a football player himself) personally.

I do realize how many student athletes in high school feel like they don't have to do the classroom work because they are a great athlete. It is very sad.