Phillies Sign Ibanez to Replace Burrell

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Looks like the Phillies will be inking Raul Ibanez to a three year deal worth $30 mil.

On the surface, it looks like a pretty good move as Ibanez is a potential 30HR / 100RBI / .290 hitter.


Thoughts?

[blueballs]

Looks like left handed pitching just became a bigger need in the NL East than it already was, which was a bunch.

[LacesOut]

Nevah heard of him.

[GannonFan]

Definitely like the pickup - Ibanez should do well here. He's a better fielder than Burrell was, and he's a much more consistent hitter than Burrell. Plus, he should provide just as much power as well. Outside of Manny, he was probably the best OF out there. Would've been better if he was a right handed bat, but, hey, what can you do. He had a good year against lefties last year (hit better against them than righties) so maybe he'll be just fine. Plus we should destroy right handed pitching now. A nice get by the Phils.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Nevah heard of him.

I didn't know a whole lot about him either until I looked him up. He's a carreer AL guy and looks to be a solid, consistant left handed bat.

[Touchdown Yosef]

Why aren't the phils in the market for a dominant second starter? Why are they not dealing for Peavy, trying to sign Burnet or Lowe. Spend some money and get someone in there to sure up your rotation and make another run at the series while you have the line up and bullpen that can take you there.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Why aren't the phils in the market for a dominant second starter? Why are they not dealing for Peavy, trying to sign Burnet or Lowe. Spend some money and get someone in there to sure up your rotation and make another run at the series while you have the line up and bullpen that can take you there.

Because they are notoriously cheap. I believe the have been in the market for piching but, not surprisingly, have come up empty.

[Touchdown Yosef]

Because they are notoriously cheap. I believe the have been in the market for pitching but, not surprisingly, have come up empty.

I can just see their front office saying "hey if we did it this year why spend so much money at another pitcher"

What is their backup plan, put Tom Gordon back in the rotation?

GO GET A TOP NOTCH PITCHER SO YOU CAN CONTINUE TO BEAT THE METS!

I would kill to see Peavy in Philly with that line up and bullpen.

[GannonFan]

Why aren't the phils in the market for a dominant second starter? Why are they not dealing for Peavy, trying to sign Burnet or Lowe. Spend some money and get someone in there to sure up your rotation and make another run at the series while you have the line up and bullpen that can take you there.


Because they are notoriously cheap. I believe the have been in the market for piching but, not surprisingly, have come up empty.


I can just see their front office saying "hey if we did it this year why spend so much money at another pitcher"

What is their backup plan, put Tom Gordon back in the rotation?

GO GET A TOP NOTCH PITCHER SO YOU CAN CONTINUE TO BEAT THE METS!

I would kill to see Peavy in Philly with that line up and bullpen.

The Phils already have a rotation of Hamels, Myers, Blanton, whoever fills Moyer's slot (could be Moyer - no one else is going to go with his demand of 2 years $10mil), and they have two young arms coming up in Happ and Carasco. That's been more than enough to beat the Mets two years running and could very well do it again. Outside of Santana, it's not like the Mets starting pitching is anything to write home about, plus they still have the underacheiving nucleus there to overcome. And Tom Gordon back in the rotation? I'm not sure Gordon's even on the roster. Don't worry, the World Champs will be just fine. xthumbsupx

[GannonFan]

Because they are notoriously cheap. I believe the have been in the market for piching but, not surprisingly, have come up empty.

While the Phils have been cheap before, remember, this year with the guys arbitration eligible, the Phils payroll is going to be about $30M higher than last year, and that puts them into $130M range - while not Yankee money, that ain't chump change either.

[89Hen]

Don't worry, the World Champs will be just fine. xthumbsupx
You mean World F'n Champs. xpeacex

[andy7171]

Left Fielder would look nice in white and orange.

[93henfan]

Hopefully Ibanez pulls his head off of every curveball like a little girl, because I'm really going to miss seeing that from Burrell.

[Hoyadestroya85]

See: Moises Alou

[ngineer]

Why aren't the phils in the market for a dominant second starter? Why are they not dealing for Peavy, trying to sign Burnet or Lowe. Spend some money and get someone in there to sure up your rotation and make another run at the series while you have the line up and bullpen that can take you there.


I heard the Phils were in negotiations for Lowe. As for Ibanez, it looks like a good pickup and overall upgrade over Burrell. However, he's a little 'long in the tooth' aint he? Around 35?

[whitey]

A lot of Phillies fans on another message board I post on absolutely HATE this move. Ibanez and Burrell basically put up the same numbers offensively. The only difference being Ibanez is left handed. He's also like 5 years older.

Oh and as tough as this is to believe. But Ibanez is actually a worse fielder than Burrell.

Exhibit A:

http://i27.tinypic.com/28akex2.jpg

Here's also a good sabremetric-minded blog post of why this move might not be that great: Link. (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-ultimate-headscratcher)

[Peems]

You mean World F'n Champs. xpeacex

You mean World Ph'n Champsxpeacex ;)

[gmoney55]

Real nice pickup for the Phils. They lose a bit in the field but Ibanez is a better hitter overall.

[whitey]

I really kind of feel the Phillies will like this deal next year. But not-so-much in years 2 and 3.

[ngineer]

A lot of Phillies fans on another message board I post on absolutely HATE this move. Ibanez and Burrell basically put up the same numbers offensively. The only difference being Ibanez is left handed. He's also like 5 years older.

Oh and as tough as this is to believe. But Ibanez is actually a worse fielder than Burrell.

Exhibit A:

http://i27.tinypic.com/28akex2.jpg

Here's also a good sabremetric-minded blog post of why this move might not be that great: Link. (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-ultimate-headscratcher)


I see his offensive being much better than Burrell's. BA is almost 40 points higher, and his RBIs are better. The 'highlight' certainly is laughable, but I think most players have one or two of those in their past.

[JMU DJ]

We will see how Ibanez does in the clutch. Pat came up big this post season and besides Howard was the most clutch hitter on the team. I don't like this at all, Ibanez is 36 and has no where to go but down at that age. Pat just turned 30, yeah the guy may be a little slow in the field, but he is one of the most consistent players the Phillies have had over the past 10 years. For anyone who watched this season, Pat actually hustled and made some nice catches against the walls (I attribute it to being a contract season). Still, Pat consistently hits around 30 HRs, 80-100 RBIs and hits close to .260 and this is at the 5 spot in the line up. Pat loves philly, loves playing in philly, it will be sad to see him go. Besides, how can you deny this Manchine... one thing I can say is we all knew this day was coming.

http://blogs.phillynews.com/inquirer/zozone/pat%20burrell%20shirtless%202.jpg

[JMU DJ]

I see his offensive being much better than Burrell's. BA is almost 40 points higher, and his RBIs are better. The 'highlight' certainly is laughable, but I think most players have one or two of those in their past.

I may be wrong, but I think Ibanez hit clean up for the Mariners. This gives him more opportunity to knock in RBIs. We will see what he can do batting behind Howard.

[whitey]

I see his offensive being much better than Burrell's. BA is almost 40 points higher, and his RBIs are better. The 'highlight' certainly is laughable, but I think most players have one or two of those in their past.

Their offense is relatively the same. Batting Average and RBI's aren't the best ways to compare two players statistically. I'm not a huge stathead but it's probably better to look at a stat like OPS+. OPS+ is devised by using the players on base % and slugging % and then adjusting it based on their home park and the league they play in.

Burrell has a career OPS+ of 119. Ibanez is at 113. The problem like already pointed out is that Ibanez is 36 and almost sure to decline. Burrell just turned 31 and probably won't start a decline for another 3 years.

[ngineer]

Their offense is relatively the same. Batting Average and RBI's aren't the best ways to compare two players statistically. I'm not a huge stathead but it's probably better to look at a stat like OPS+. OPS+ is devised by using the players on base % and slugging % and then adjusting it based on their home park and the league they play in.

Burrell has a career OPS+ of 119. Ibanez is at 113. The problem like already pointed out is that Ibanez is 36 and almost sure to decline. Burrell just turned 31 and probably won't start a decline for another 3 years.

Actually, Gullick, who was in Seattle previously has said the Ibanez is a 'late bloomer' meaning he didn't play a lot in his early 20's so they don't see as much 'wear and tear' on his body as one would expect for a 36 year old. While I like Burrell, he was too streaky and likely wanted some kind of longterm contract (5-7 years), plus more money. Phils need to save some coin for their dealings with Hamels and Howard.
As for the lineup, that remains to be seen. With a number of LH bats I see Werth being used somewhere in there to break up the sequence, i.e. Werth 5th and Ibanez 6th.

[JMU DJ]

Actually, Gullick, who was in Seattle previously has said the Ibanez is a 'late bloomer' meaning he didn't play a lot in his early 20's so they don't see as much 'wear and tear' on his body as one would expect for a 36 year old. While I like Burrell, he was too streaky and likely wanted some kind of longterm contract (5-7 years), plus more money. Phils need to save some coin for their dealings with Hamels and Howard.
As for the lineup, that remains to be seen. With a number of LH bats I see Werth being used somewhere in there to break up the sequence, i.e. Werth 5th and Ibanez 6th.

Though this may be true about Pats streakyness... if that's a word... his streaks came with Ryan, Chase, Jimmy, Jayson, Shane and the rest of the team weren't hitting. Pat carried us through some of these times. I do agree he would demand a huge contract, and rightfully so. I think he's one of the most under rated hitters in the game. That said, Ibanez is old and has played a full 7-8 consecutive seasons. He was a late bloomer in baseball and tends to bloom late into the season when it comes to hitting. I don't know if the philly phans will accept that.