How to schedule nonconference games

[woffordgrad94]

I think teams in Division 1 should not schedule d-2 or NAIA teams under any circumstances- do those games really do much good for the d-1 team? To me, it's a no-win situation. If you win, even if it's against the #1 team in that division, well, you were supposed to- no big deal. But if you lose, it hurts your season badly and may make an at-large playoff berth very hard to get. Wofford played Georgetown, KY, an NAIA power. two times, only because they are Mike Ayers' alma mater. We got wins, but the games were tougher than we would have liked. What if we'd lost?

Also, there is no doubt that teams should probably schedule an FCS money game if they can. It helps fund the whole athletic department, and gives the school some national exposure. It also gives the kids a chance to play on a big stage and an opportunity for an upset they'll remember forever. What do the FCS boys get- well, FCS games are normally a win towards getting a bowl bid for them.

I also think its important to schedule some good OOC FCS competition if you can- Wofford fails to do this. We have been playing the Charleston Southerns and Gardner-webbs of the world. Presbyterian, I kind of understand playing them- they are a team that has been a big rival in the past. But why can't we get with a good CAA team OOC and schedule a home and home? These kind of games can help us get more respect and help build a better playoff resume. It's okay to play a big rival- that brings in money, but playing good FCS competiton is important as well.

If I made Wofford's schedule, this is what I'd do with the non-conference games. One FBS money game, one gamne against a power FCS team in another conference, and one in-state "rivalry" game (Presbyterian, SC State, Coastal- not Charleston Southern all the time). And NEVER a game against a non-D1 team. I'd play 10 games before doing that.

[elcid96]

Careful what you wish for. The FBS league may make the same argument.

[woffordgrad94]

The FBS teams' wins against FCS teams count towards a bowl berth. I don't think they are going to give up what they consider to be "easy wins" for them towards the money and extra practice time a bowl brings. Not only that, but a FCS-FBS matchup brings big checks to the FCS team. What does a FCS-D2 or NAIA matchup bring? Not much.

[89Hen]

I think teams in Division 1 should not schedule d-2 or NAIA teams under any circumstances- do those games really do much good for the d-1 team?...

If I made Wofford's schedule, this is what I'd do with the non-conference games. One FBS money game, one gamne against a power FCS team in another conference, and one in-state "rivalry" game (Presbyterian, SC State, Coastal- not Charleston Southern all the time). And NEVER a game against a non-D1 team. I'd play 10 games before doing that.
I agree with pretty much everything you say... but only for teams in what are considered the power conferences. If I'm in the NEC, Big South, PFL... where it may be tougher to get other I-AA's to come to you, I don't see anything wrong with a DII on the schedule. Also, they may need more quality OOC games to have any shot at an at-large.

So for Wofford, or UD, or UNI.... your formula is good. I would add the caviat that the I-A game should be regional or at least somewhere that made sense from a recruiting standpoint. Montana going to Iowa, Maine going to Nebraska, The Citadel going to Wisconsin.... these games are 100% money. Games like Wofford/USC, Delaware/Maryland, AppSt/NCSt... make more sense to me as at least they are in an area where somebody may pay attention to you, and one that some of your fans can easily travel.

[woffordgrad94]

Wofford is going to both Wisconsin AND South Florida in 2009- purely money games. I think one FBS a year is enough- this might make a playoff berth more difficult to obtain. I like to be optimistic about things, but there's a very good chance this makes two losses right off the bat. Wofford will not get in the playoffs if they lose 2 SoCon games next year. 7-4 won't do it for them, no matter who the losses are against. Throw in the obligatory visit from Charleston Southern, and you have a non-conference schedule that to me leaves something to be desired.

And if I'm at Albany or San Diego, merely playing a d-2 may be a death sentence to any slim hope I ever had of making the playoffs.

[UNHFan]

Wofford is going to both Wisconsin AND South Florida in 2009- purely money games. I think one FBS a year is enough- this might make a playoff berth more difficult to obtain. I like to be optimistic about things, but there's a very good chance this makes two losses right off the bat. Wofford will not get in the playoffs if they lose 2 SoCon games next year. 7-4 won't do it for them, no matter who the losses are against. Throw in the obligatory visit from Charleston Southern, and you have a non-conference schedule that to me leaves something to be desired.

And if I'm at Albany or San Diego, merely playing a d-2 may be a death sentence to any slim hope I ever had of making the playoffs.


Could not have said it better!

[UAalum72]

And if I'm at Albany or San Diego, merely playing a d-2 may be a death sentence to any slim hope I ever had of making the playoffs.
You don't need to tell Albany. We have not played a sub-D-I since 2000, our second season going Divison I. A few in their first transitional year.

[ChickenMan]

UD's brilliant AD had a unique idea on how to schedule nonconference games.. he scheduled other CAA members (UNH & Hofstra) who weren't on the current UD league schedule as OOC games. That dopey idea went over like a lead balloon with most UD fans.. hopefully it won't be repeated.

[UNIFanSince1983]

I understand what you are saying, but SDSU this year scheduled Cal Poly and McNeese. If they win that's great, but turned out to be a death sentence because they lost 2 conference games. If you lose good OOC games you have less room for error in your tough conference where anything can happen. I think you can do what we did this year and be alright. One FBS game, one DII game, and one decent OOC game. I mean I would love to see UNI get UNH or Cal Poly or some other good OOC games.

And actually I don't know if we will have DIIs on the schedule next year, but we have Iowa or Iowa State on our schedule through 2017. This year our DII game was a team in their first year of transition (South Dakota).

[bostonspider]

At the moment I think UR has got the perfect OCC schedule going. One FBS game, somewhat local or an academic rival (UVA, DUKE, VANDY), one in state rivalry game which is somewhat easy (VMI) and then a mixture between a good OOC power conference team (Elon)or a PL team that is an academic rival (Georgetown).

[GOKATS]

We've been having the same discussion recentlly on BobcatNation. Being in the Big Sky Conference with nine teams only allows 3 OOC games in the typical 11 game season and Montana St. as a rule schedules 1 FBS money game, a home FCS game and a home DII opponent for a 6 home game season. An informal poll has showed that most would bag the DII game and play another FCS school even if it required a home/away resulting in an alternating 5/6 home game season, the primary reason being that it will give the team a better chance at making the playoffs each year. The big problem we have, as has been pointed out over and over again, is that there are a very limited number of teams out west to schedule.

The Montana St. AD did say last week in a radio interview that they are trying to schedule 2 FCS games for next year (we already have Mich. St. on the schedule).

[appfan2008]

i agree that if you are from an autobid conference scheduling a d2 does you no good and it really should be discouraged...

[Silenoz]

May as well throw in non-scholly I-AA teams too.

[UAalum72]

May as well throw in non-scholly I-AA teams too.
No, Ivy League and Pioneer League games still count as a D-I win toward the seven to make the playoffs - if you can win them.

[Husky Alum]

Here's what not to do - follow NU's model.

Here's who we've played OOC in the past few years.

2005 - @ YSU, GSU, @ NW State (0-3)
2006 - @ NDSU, @ Holy Cross, @ Va Tech (1-2)
2007 - NW State, @ UC Davis, Northwestern (1-2)
2008 - @ Syracuse, @ Ball State, UC Davis, @ GSU (1-3)
2009 - Holy Cross, Youngstown, @ Boston College

If you were to poll the alumni, here's what we'd prefer

FBS Game against: Army, Navy, Rutgers, UConn, Boston College, Syracuse, Buffalo, etc.

Home/Homes with: CCSU, Colgate, Albany, Stony Brook, Fordham, Holy Cross, Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, etc.

Some form of Series with Harvard or Dartmouth or Brown

Playing our OOC in the CAA leaves us little room for error. At least with the schedule proposition above, we'd have a puncher's chance of going 2-1 in OOC play, something we haven't done in ages.

[terrierbob]

At the moment I think UR has got the perfect OCC schedule going. One FBS game, somewhat local or an academic rival (UVA, DUKE, VANDY), one in state rivalry game which is somewhat easy (VMI) and then a mixture between a good OOC power conference team (Elon)or a PL team that is an academic rival (Georgetown).
The parallel Wofford schedule would be:

Wake Forest/Duke/Vandy
Presbyterian
a CAA team
Davidson

[jsugamecocks1]

Jax State needs to schedule harder OOC games that are at FCS level we are playing @GA Tech, but then playing Alabama A&M and Chattanooga and those games dont help us get recognition as was evident this year. Maybe a GA Southern or Elon/ Furman that would give us quality opposition and a good chance for playoffs if we can pull off wins. And they aren't long travel games just maybe 7-8 hours

[WVAPPmountaineer]

You are right about the scheduling however one key factor wasn't mentioned - the opposing team must want to play you - for a couple of years APP played D2 Lenoir-Rhyne and Mars Hill because no one else would schedule us and our athletic dept or someone put out a list of all the teams who had been contacted and who didn't want to play APP - the list was quite long - That's why my hat was off for and will be for Northern AZ who had the b---- to come to Boone - McNeese is coming next year and we have had a home and home with JMU ---

[Shellin]

I think (with the exception of 2007) Montana has done a pretty good job of OoC scheduling. We haven't had to play as many $$ games against FBS teams since we effectively make just as much, if not more, money off home games. I hadn't looked at our past OoC schedules up until this thread right here, but now that I see them it makes me chuckle how much people bash the Griz for their non-conference scheduling. We had one year that was a terrible non-conference (and pretty much all Griz fans admit that 2007 was not a good schedule) but other than that these look pretty solid. (and for those claiming we never play FBS teams or that we should play more FBS teams to prove how good we are: you only have to go back TWO years since the last time we played one. Its not like we haven't done it since you were still in diapers.)

2008 @Cal Poly, vs SUU, UCD and CWU
2007 SUU, Ft Lewis, Albany
2006 @Iowa, SDSU, Cal Poly
2005 Ft Lewis, @Oregon, SDSU, Cal Poly
2004 Maine, Hofstra, @Sam Houston State, NoCo
2003 @Maine, NDSU, SHSU, Idaho, Cal Poly
2002 @HOfstra, SUU, NoCo, @Idaho
2001 @Cal Poly, @Hawaii, WWU, St Marys, Idaho
2000 Hofstra, @Idaho, Cal Poly,

I do think this years schedule or those in 2002-2004 are the best example of what we can hope for in Montana. Obviously it would be awesome for us to land a deal with another big time FCS school ala the McNeese/App State series that got inked this year, but until then I really do think that Great West schools is probably what we will be playing.

[Proud Griz Man]

So for Wofford, or UD, or UNI.... your formula is good. I would add the caviat that the I-A game should be regional or at least somewhere that made sense from a recruiting standpoint. Montana going to Iowa, Maine going to Nebraska, The Citadel going to Wisconsin.... these games are 100% money. Games like Wofford/USC, Delaware/Maryland, AppSt/NCSt... make more sense to me as at least they are in an area where somebody may pay attention to you, and one that some of your fans can easily travel.

Interesting perspective Hen, because I thought that UD has a OOC multi-year contract with South Dakota State. Plus, I see numerous FCS fans posting that they would like a Home-and-home series with Montana. Is it better to schedule a CAA, Patriot, SoCon, MVC team but not Big-10 Iowa? Please expound on your thoughts.

[smcwildcat]

UNH only has three OOC games and we have obv. done a good job of taking care of buisiness when we play FBS teams.... this year rumors are there will not be an FBS and that leaves us with 2 unknown OOC games (Dartmouth and us are under contract becasue we are only 2 div 1 teams in NH) any takers?.....I dont think we are playing at Albany this year but we need 2 bottom line......McDonnell will never scheduele D 2 or 3 teams

[Silenoz]

No, Ivy League and Pioneer League games still count as a D-I win toward the seven to make the playoffs - if you can win them.

Right

I'm saying a win over Grand Valley State should be rewarded at least as well as a win over, say, Iona. If you can't play D2, you shouldn't be able to play non-schollies.

[RabidRabbit]

I understand what you are saying, but SDSU this year scheduled Cal Poly and McNeese. If they win that's great, but turned out to be a death sentence because they lost 2 conference games. If you lose good OOC games you have less room for error in your tough conference where anything can happen. I think you can do what we did this year and be alright. One FBS game, one DII game, and one decent OOC game. I mean I would love to see UNI get UNH or Cal Poly or some other good OOC games.

And actually I don't know if we will have DIIs on the schedule next year, but we have Iowa or Iowa State on our schedule through 2017. This year our DII game was a team in their first year of transition (South Dakota).

IMHO, if SDSU would have won one of those two OOC tough games, even with the third place MVFC, Jacks would have been selected over Maine. I would like to see Jacks schedule more middle tier than the dedicated top tier teams. But for the next couple of years, it will be top name teams for OOC with Poly, GA Southern, Delaware all scheduled along with a FBS game each season. Other than to get home games, even during transition, Jacks played tough OOC games, including 3 MVFC teams a year before joining.

With 7 ex-conference schools in the west, Jacks should be able to line up some good games that we already have a history of playing.

[UNIFanSince1983]

I understand had you won one of those games you would have been in, but the truth is you didn't and it killed you.

[beauvighn]

I am not a fan of Wofford playing 2 FBS schools next year. I can agree with because of the money it generates. I wish the FBS game was a regional game from one of the Carolinas.

You are on point regarding the repercussions of playing a second FBS school for Wofford next year. What do we gain by playing Wisconsin and S. Fla. Do we recruit a large contingent of players from Wisconsin. I don't think so. S. Fla. I may can buy because Fla. is loaded with enough talent to go around for everybody. The only thing we gain is money.

What do we stand to lose? What if we lose one or more important players in these games? I understand that injuries occur regarless but I think the chances are greater in these games. Like it or not, the players are just bigger, stronger and faster. The 2 probable losses that will follow cannot help us combined with a tough SoCon schedule. The committee will not care that 2 of those losses are from big time FBS schools.

If I am making the schedule, I schedule OOC games from tough FCs conferences. If we win thse games it bolsters our argument come selection time. The SoCon is a physical gauntlet we must run every year.
Play one money game against NC St, Duke, Clemson, etc. The Wisconsin game was scheduled because because it helps them prepare for Michigan. The S. Fla. game was scheduled to help them prepare for W. Va. It benefits those schools but not Wofford.

Whew, there now I feel better.

[UAalum72]

2008 @Cal Poly, vs SUU, UCD and CWU
2007 SUU, Ft Lewis, Albany
2006 @Iowa, SDSU, Cal Poly
2005 Ft Lewis, @Oregon, SDSU, Cal Poly
2004 Maine, Hofstra, @Sam Houston State, NoCo
2003 @Maine, NDSU, SHSU, Idaho, Cal Poly
2002 @HOfstra, SUU, NoCo, @Idaho
2001 @Cal Poly, @Hawaii, WWU, St Marys, Idaho
2000 Hofstra, @Idaho, Cal Poly,

I do think this years schedule or those in 2002-2004 are the best example of what we can hope for in Montana. Obviously it would be awesome for us to land a deal with another big time FCS school ala the McNeese/App State series that got inked this year, but until then I really do think that Great West schools is probably what we will be playing.
Montana also played Albany in 2002

[WOCO]

I am not a fan of Wofford playing 2 FBS schools next year. I can agree with because of the money it generates. I wish the FBS game was a regional game from one of the Carolinas.

You are on point regarding the repercussions of playing a second FBS school for Wofford next year. What do we gain by playing Wisconsin and S. Fla. Do we recruit a large contingent of players from Wisconsin. I don't think so. S. Fla. I may can buy because Fla. is loaded with enough talent to go around for everybody. The only thing we gain is money.

What do we stand to lose? What if we lose one or more important players in these games? I understand that injuries occur regarless but I think the chances are greater in these games. Like it or not, the players are just bigger, stronger and faster. The 2 probable losses that will follow cannot help us combined with a tough SoCon schedule. The committee will not care that 2 of those losses are from big time FBS schools.

If I am making the schedule, I schedule OOC games from tough FCs conferences. If we win thse games it bolsters our argument come selection time. The SoCon is a physical gauntlet we must run every year.
Play one money game against NC St, Duke, Clemson, etc. The Wisconsin game was scheduled because because it helps them prepare for Michigan. The S. Fla. game was scheduled to help them prepare for W. Va. It benefits those schools but not Wofford.

Whew, there now I feel better.

I honestly believe that wofford is so loaded with freshman and soph talent (and a lot of really good RS fresmen)that they are really preparing for 2010. Im not saying that we are writing off next year. Hell, we weren't supposed to be any good this year. I just think we are getting as much cash and experience as we can in 09 so that we will be able to make a big run on 2010

[Reign of Terrier]

I honestly believe that wofford is so loaded with freshman and soph talent (and a lot of really good RS fresmen)that they are really preparing for 2010. Im not saying that we are writing off next year. Hell, we weren't supposed to be any good this year. I just think we are getting as much cash and experience as we can in 09 so that we will be able to make a big run on 2010

xnodx xnodx xnodx ditto, I'm thinking the same thing, We'll be making our defense better against a Citadel team with no Andre, an Elon team with no Hudgins, and an App team with no Armanti.

Wasn't it 2001 when we played 3 FBS teams and the next year we put out a team that should have made the playoffs?

[JMU_MRD'03-'07]

Well for JMU its always- Schedule 1 FBS team that you play for the money and just show up to loose to, and Schedule 1 good OOC game and 1 local OOC game. I liked our home and home series vs. App. I wish we would play UVA and play them hard.

Thank god Mickey got rid of all DII games as long as he's there.

[WVAPPmountaineer]

It's tough to play 2 FBS games in one season - it gives very little margin of error - APP played Kansas and LSU and went onto win their 1st National Championship but another regular season loss (they also lost to FU) in the SoCon might have knocked them out of the playoffs - So Carolina State played 2 this year but went undefeated in their remaining games - If you play 2 FBS games you almost need to win your automatic qualifier ----

[ViennaSpider]

At the moment I think UR has got the perfect OCC schedule going. One FBS game, somewhat local or an academic rival (UVA, DUKE, VANDY), one in state rivalry game which is somewhat easy (VMI) and then a mixture between a good OOC power conference team (Elon)or a PL team that is an academic rival (Georgetown).

Novel idea but probably a budget buster: I'd like to see the Spiders start a west coast rivalry. Maybe with UC Davis, E. Washington, or Un. of San Diego. It would be a great experience for the team and possibly a useful recruitment tool. I saw where at least one FCS team traveled across the country to play this year, UC Davis played CAA Northeastern in Boston; and then there's the Pioneer League. Richmond has never been farther west than Montana and that was a playoff appearance.