Schools with old style turf

[WUTNDITWAA]

We're having this discussion at work about schools that still use the old style astroturf.

So far, we have Northern Iowa and ND State.

Any more?

[clenz]

I think South Dakota and North Dakota also have the old style turf in their domes. Outside of that I think that might be it. Just the 4 domed teams in the upper midwest

[Shellin]

I think Idaho State still has that terrible colored concrete, don't they?

[th0m]

I think the then-A-10 let out a collective sigh of relief when JMU got rid of the rug a few years back. Fairly sure all CAA schools have either grass (Delaware? maybe some northern schools) or FieldTurf or some other variety. Northeastern has a multi-use facility which is also used for baseball, don't know if that's astro-stuff.

[EKU05]

Two OVC teams got rid of it within the last two years...Tennessee Tech and Murray State.

Next season EKU is switching to field turf from natural grass which will mean the entire OVC is playing on the new turf save for Tennessee State who shares the natural grass field of the Titans.

[GOKATS]

I think Idaho State still has that terrible colored concrete, don't they?

Yep, Idaho St. still has the old green shag on concrete- it's brutal on players.

[Umass74]

Northeastern finally got rid of their old astro-turf a couple of years back.

It seemed like every time we played them, we'd loose someone to a knee injury. How the Huskies players survived playing on it all the time is a mystery to me.

[Dukes82]

What exactly is "Field Turf"?

[Big Al]

What exactly is "Field Turf"?

It's basically a simulated grass where you mix in rubber pellets and sand in between the plastic grass blades so it feels like running around on dirt, rather than a woven carpet like Astroturf.

Field Turf: http://www.fieldturf.com/product/designConstruction.cfm

Astro Turf: http://www.astroturfusa.com/product/gameday-grass.html

[clenz]

What exactly is "Field Turf"?What teams like the Minnesota Vikings, NE Patriots, St. Louis Rams, Detroit Lions etc.. play on

[GOKATS]

What exactly is "Field Turf"?

28 NFL teams have Field Turf, the rest have SprinTurf (or some other variation), natural grass, etc. Montana St. replaced natural grass with Field Turf this summer and it's great. They lay the turf on a drained gravel base, the turf is about 2 1/2" long when they first put it down. They then spread a fine silica sand and fine rubber pellets in alternating layers (about 7 lbs. sand/3 lbs. rubber per sq. ft.). When it's done there's about 1/2-5/8" of turf showing. It looks great, requires little maintenance, and feels very much like natural grass.

[Shellin]

28 NFL teams have Field Turf, the rest have SprinTurf (or some other variation), natural grass, etc. Montana St. replaced natural grass with Field Turf this summer and it's great. They lay the turf on a drained gravel base, the turf is about 2 1/2" long when they first put it down. They then spread a fine silica sand and fine rubber pellets in alternating layers (about 7 lbs. sand/3 lbs. rubber per sq. ft.). When it's done there's about 1/2-5/8" of turf showing. It looks great, requires little maintenance, and feels very much like natural grass.


Yeah, the Bobcats' new field is definitely nice and I personally think the Field Turf feels better than natural grass. Here at WSU they use Martin Stadium for intramural flag football games and the stuff is incredible to run on.

[turfdoc]

Just so you know Field Turf is like Kleenex. Its a trademarked name.

The proper term would be turf infill systems. Some people put a synthetic before it. But I am not complaining about a discussion board using Field Turf universally. They are not all created equal, some have sand and rubber other have only rubber, some have rubber coating on sand particles to reduce brush up.

That being said I remember some of the indoor carpets being pretty soft because of the mat below it. I know the mat wears out but UNI's turf in the mid 90s had plenty of give. Now the carpet fibers do grab your shoes too well causing chronic knee and ankle problems, while speeding up the game.

[achrist70]

UNI is looking towards getting field turf, but it is difficult to roll up, which is needed for track season, and when it is rolled up it takes up more space than astro, meaning we would have to put up another building to store it in. And not to mention it isn't the cheapest stuff, but I think we could find the funds to do so. Also the astro-turf is a huge advantage for us when teams aren't used to it.

[Thundar]

We're having this discussion at work about schools that still use the old style astroturf.

So far, we have Northern Iowa and ND State.

Any more?


The city of Fargo has Astroturf in the Dome, NDSU has SprinTurf on their Practice field!

I only hope The city eventually wakes up and lay down the good stuff in the FFD!

[Hoyadestroya85]

I don't understand why the NCAA hasn't taken action against it.. Astroturf absolutely shreds up knee ligaments

[GOKATS]

Just so you know Field Turf is like Kleenex. Its a trademarked name.

The proper term would be turf infill systems. Some people put a synthetic before it. But I am not complaining about a discussion board using Field Turf universally. They are not all created equal, some have sand and rubber other have only rubber, some have rubber coating on sand particles to reduce brush up.

That being said I remember some of the indoor carpets being pretty soft because of the mat below it. I know the mat wears out but UNI's turf in the mid 90s had plenty of give. Now the carpet fibers do grab your shoes too well causing chronic knee and ankle problems, while speeding up the game.

That's why in my post I said Field Turf, Sprin Turf, etc. Montana State and 28 NFL teams have 'Field Turf'.

[turfdoc]

I don't understand why the NCAA hasn't taken action against it.. Astroturf absolutely shreds up knee ligaments

Actually there is absolutely no evidence to prove that, especially in contact sports. Believe me there have been many studies and not one has shown an increase in football injuries when comparing astro-turf to natural grass or turf infill systems. The real problem is in chronic arthritis of the joint from the quick stops that are possible on astro-turf.


One problem is that it would destroy women's field hockey if it was banned (NCAA takes Title 9 seriously). In non-contact women's athletics there is a slightly higher catastrophic injury rate but the real story once again lies in the chronic injuries which are hard/impossible to track.

[turfdoc]

UNI is looking towards getting field turf, but it is difficult to roll up, which is needed for track season, and when it is rolled up it takes up more space than astro, meaning we would have to put up another building to store it in. And not to mention it isn't the cheapest stuff, but I think we could find the funds to do so. Also the astro-turf is a huge advantage for us when teams aren't used to it.

Typically you do not roll it up, it comes out in pallets. That is how they do it in the rogers center (formerly the skydome). Looks kind of like a parquet floor if the do not brush the plastic fibers in one direction

[brownbear]

Cornell had the last old school turf, and they replaced it this past spring.

Brown still has an astroturf field for intramural football, but the stadium has always been grass, and the practice fields are now field turf.

[turfdoc]

That's why in my post I said Field Turf, Sprin Turf, etc. Montana State and 28 NFL teams have 'Field Turf'.

Well maybe field turf bought the company but I know field turf was not put into the meadowlands. I know they went on a acquisition boom and now claim many of those companies product as there own but they are not the same. I believe that they are going to replace the stuff in the meadowlands after this year (year 7). They still do not know how long this stuff really lasts.

Maybe I should stand corrected.

[Hoyadestroya85]

Actually there is absolutely no evidence to prove that, especially in contact sports. Believe me there have been many studies and not one has shown an increase in football injuries when comparing astro-turf to natural grass or turf infill systems. The real problem is in chronic arthritis of the joint from the quick stops that are possible on astro-turf.


One problem is that it would destroy women's field hockey if it was banned (NCAA takes Title 9 seriously). In non-contact women's athletics there is a slightly higher catastrophic injury rate but the real story once again lies in the chronic injuries which are hard/impossible to track.

women are also biologically four to ten times as likely to suffer catastrophic knee injuries

[turfdoc]

women are also biologically twice as likely to suffer catastrophic knee injuries

exactly and despite that they still have a hard time showing increased injury rates on this evil stuff call astroturf.

I personally hate the stuff but when it first came out it was better than the real thing. Now 'field turf' is better than the real thing and I think in a few years we will come to the realization that it is not. The NFL players overwhelmingly have stated in survey after survey that their joints hurt more after playing on 'field turf' and they feel 'field turf' is shortening their careers.

[turfdoc]

How can 28 NFL teams have 'field turf'?

Seems way too high. I though Arizona, SanDiego, Jacksonville, Pittsburgh, and even Houston played on Grass plus a few more. I tried to look it up and couldn't find numbers.

There are only 31 NFL stadiums

[UNIFanSince1983]

Arizona, San Diego, Jacksonville, Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh, Houston, Kansas City, Miami, Oakland, San Francisco, Carolina, Cleveland, and Tennessee. All of these teams have natural grass.

I think he is saying that they have Field Turf in some capacity. I believe a lot of teams might have a natural grass stadium, but have Field Turf in a practice facility.

[PantherRob82]

UNI is looking towards getting field turf, but it is difficult to roll up, which is needed for track season, and when it is rolled up it takes up more space than astro, meaning we would have to put up another building to store it in. And not to mention it isn't the cheapest stuff, but I think we could find the funds to do so. Also the astro-turf is a huge advantage for us when teams aren't used to it.

You're close.

There is currently only one removable field turf. It comes in trays. We don't have the storage space. They are rolling out a new rollable turf shortly which will be installed asap I'm sure.

[UNIFanSince1983]

I am just curious where you are getting this information. I believe it and hope it is true I just would like to be able find information about this new rollable turf.

[GOKATS]

Arizona, San Diego, Jacksonville, Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh, Houston, Kansas City, Miami, Oakland, San Francisco, Carolina, Cleveland, and Tennessee. All of these teams have natural grass.

I think he is saying that they have Field Turf in some capacity. I believe a lot of teams might have a natural grass stadium, but have Field Turf in a practice facility.

That could well be the case, I just remember seeing numbers on the 'Field Turf' web site when I was gathering info on the Montana St. install this summer.

[GOKATS]

You're close.

There is currently only one removable field turf. It comes in trays. We don't have the storage space. They are rolling out a new rollable turf shortly which will be installed asap I'm sure.

That must be what Northern Arizona went with. I know they replaced their old turf in the dome with something new this year and as I recall it's the removable tray type.

[achrist70]

I don't know any roll up turf, my friend who works in the athletic department said that it takes up more space, and I thought he said that it could be rolled up but maybe not. I don't see how hard it would to put up a mortenson building somewhere in the dome. You can get machinery in the dome to move it, and it only has to be done twice a year fall and spring ball.

[Ronbo]

The players prefer the FieldTurf or SprinTurf. It's faster than grass, is as easy on the skin as grass and doesn't freeze up and become concrete or turn to a mud bath in the late season. You don't need to apply dangerous poisons to it to control pests and weeds.

[JayJ79]

Just so you know Field Turf is like Kleenex. Its a trademarked name.

The proper term would be turf infill systems. Some people put a synthetic before it. But I am not complaining about a discussion board using Field Turf universally. They are not all created equal, some have sand and rubber other have only rubber, some have rubber coating on sand particles to reduce brush up.

Yup. Just like Bandaid (plastic bandage), Jello (gelatin dessert), and Frisbee (flying disc)

[PantherRob82]

I am just curious where you are getting this information. I believe it and hope it is true I just would like to be able find information about this new rollable turf.

The athletic department. ;)

[clenz]

I don't know any roll up turf, my friend who works in the athletic department said that it takes up more space, and I thought he said that it could be rolled up but maybe not. I don't see how hard it would to put up a mortenson building somewhere in the dome. You can get machinery in the dome to move it, and it only has to be done twice a year fall and spring ball.Where is there room in the dome for that? That is the problem. The astro-turf is small enough, when rolled, to fit under the bleacher over hang. I'm pretty sure that is why the over hang is there actually. A field/spin turn would be MUCH thicker when rolled and would not fit under that over hang.

I really don't think there is room anywhere else to store it. I would have to be hauled away from the dome (at least outside) to a building.

[TCisMYhero]

Where is there room in the dome for that? That is the problem. The astro-turf is small enough, when rolled, to fit under the bleacher over hang. I'm pretty sure that is why the over hang is there actually. A field/spin turn would be MUCH thicker when rolled and would not fit under that over hang.

I really don't think there is room anywhere else to store it. I would have to be hauled away from the dome (at least outside) to a building.

Tear out the parking lot next to WRC and build a shed to hold it.

[UNI Pike]

This "where to put the field turf" discussion is turning into a Groundhog Day sequel

[achrist70]

Where is there room in the dome for that? That is the problem. The astro-turf is small enough, when rolled, to fit under the bleacher over hang. I'm pretty sure that is why the over hang is there actually. A field/spin turn would be MUCH thicker when rolled and would not fit under that over hang.

I really don't think there is room anywhere else to store it. I would have to be hauled away from the dome (at least outside) to a building.

I think I wrote put up a mortenson building somewhere. I have seen full size tractors in the UNI dome at a farm show so they can get machinery in there to move the turf out of the building if they have to.

[Big Al]

Arizona, San Diego, Jacksonville, Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh, Houston, Kansas City, Miami, Oakland, San Francisco, Carolina, Cleveland, and Tennessee. All of these teams have natural grass.

Don't Green Bay and Chicago have grass, as well?

[TCisMYhero]

I think I wrote put up a mortenson building somewhere. I have seen full size tractors in the UNI dome at a farm show so they can get machinery in there to move the turf out of the building if they have to.

Absolutely. Problem solved. You're welcome, Mr. Dannen.

[clenz]

The garage doors aren't wide enough for trays to fit through. There would have to be a bunch of angle shifts and what not....and I don't think tractors driving on field turf is good fo rit.

[GOKATS]

Don't Green Bay and Chicago have grass, as well?

I don't know about Chicago, but from what I've read Green Bay has some wierd combination of both turf and natural grass which keeps it from becoming a quagmire when wet.

[clenz]

I don't know about Chicago, but from what I've read Green Bay has some wierd combination of both turf and natural grass which keeps it from becoming a quagmire when wet.
If only Pittsburgh could figure that out. Their field becomes a mud pit almost every game

[UNIFanSince1983]

Well you are correct in Chicago and Green Bay having grass. I was just trying to go through from memory, and obviously forgot a couple and maybe a couple more :)

Edit: Just remembered that Washington is also grass.

[YaleFootballFan]

Cornell had the last old school turf, and they replaced it this past spring.

Brown still has an astroturf field for intramural football, but the stadium has always been grass, and the practice fields are now field turf.

I wonder how long it'll be until Yale and Brown joins the rest of the Ivies and installs field turf to their stadiums.

[jmuroller]

Northeastern finally got rid of their old astro-turf a couple of years back.

It seemed like every time we played them, we'd loose someone to a knee injury. How the Huskies players survived playing on it all the time is a mystery to me.

Actually...Northeastern was one of the 1st schools, along with Villanova to have have fieldturf in the CAA. I believe they installed their current turf around 2000-01.

[ur2k]

We have grass now but will be moving to Field Turf at our on-campus stadium since it will be a multisport facility.

[bincitysioux]

I think South Dakota and North Dakota also have the old style turf in their domes. Outside of that I think that might be it. Just the 4 domed teams in the upper midwest

Yes, the three Dakota schools that play indoors all play on astroturf, a.k.a. Magic Carpet.


The city of Fargo has Astroturf in the Dome, NDSU has SprinTurf on their Practice field!

I only hope The city eventually wakes up and lay down the good stuff in the FFD!

North Dakota's practice field also has Sprin-Turf. My understanding is that small-market city-owned facilities like the Alerus Center and Fargodome prefer Astroturf because it requires far less maintenence and is much much easier to set up and tear down quickly for other events (concerts and conventions) than is Field/Sprin Turf. Hopefully down the road, both North Dakota and NDSU can convince the governing bodies of their respective facilities to put in the better playing surface in the future.

[GOKATS]

This a link to the roll-up turf that Northern Arizona put in their dome recently. Apparently it will also be used in the new Cowboys stadium.

http://www.hellasconstruction.com/turf_softop.php

[turfdoc]

The players prefer the FieldTurf or SprinTurf. It's faster than grass, is as easy on the skin as grass and doesn't freeze up and become concrete or turn to a mud bath in the late season. You don't need to apply dangerous poisons to it to control pests and weeds.

Actually the NFL players prefer the natural grass according to the NFLPU survey.

[turfdoc]

The garage doors aren't wide enough for trays to fit through. There would have to be a bunch of angle shifts and what not....and I don't think tractors driving on field turf is good fo rit.

As someone who has personally seen them move the turf into the sky dome on trays and been through the garage at the dome. They could easily get them through.

[JayJ79]

The garage doors aren't wide enough for trays to fit through. There would have to be a bunch of angle shifts and what not....and I don't think tractors driving on field turf is good fo rit.

I'm sure that they could widen the garage doors if need be.

And as for driving tractors on field turf: it's just a matter of moving the trays in the proper order. Installing it, you start from the far side away from the doors (south end in the Dome, assuming they're bringing them in through the garage doors on the north end). Removing it, you start with the trays nearest the doors and work out. Thus there wouldn't be any driving over the turf itself.

[CDT_Wilson]

People from the CAA were complaining about the turf at the UNI-Dome being hard. It isn't bad at all, under the turf and it's built in padding is a rubber running surface for our indoor track. It is actually softer then the frozen tundra outside. As far as turf burns if you notice the UNI players have learned to fall and most don't wear anything on their elbows. As for the talk about storage the turf is rolled up by the Zamboni machine and stored under the concrete decapitator.

[Big Al]

Actually the NFL players prefer the natural grass according to the NFLPU survey.

Increased risk of staph infections on artificial turf surfaces is a very hot topic, as well.

[UNIFanSince1983]

That stuff they got at NAU looks like it would work very well in the UNI-Dome or a like facility.

[achrist70]

Couple of things, is NAU's dome also used for track, you know how much we use the dome for track. Also how big are these trays? And you wouldn't have to drive on it if you you did it right. I'm trying to get new turf in the UNI dome by tomorrow!

[UNIFanSince1983]

Go to the link the guy provided for the stuff they have at NAU. You can see in the pictures a track underneath. And it is a roll-up real-grass turf that they are using. It looks like a good idea. Obviously I don't know the price. I don't know how it compares in terms of speed to roll up compared to what we have. It sounds, however, that our athletic department is looking into something very similar to this.

[achrist70]

Looks good lets get it!

[ValleyChamp]

That stuff looks amazing, AND simple. I do not see any reason why that would not work in the UNIdome.

[UNI Pike]

If it were cheap and easy to put a new surface, we would have done it already.

Next topic

[GOKATS]

How can 28 NFL teams have 'field turf'?

Seems way too high. I though Arizona, SanDiego, Jacksonville, Pittsburgh, and even Houston played on Grass plus a few more. I tried to look it up and couldn't find numbers.

There are only 31 NFL stadiums

My bad............. I went back to when I was looking at the 'Field Turf' site this summer and there are 22 (not 28) NFL teams with 'Field Turf' installs- I didn't take the time to go thru it all at the time so a few of those might be practice fields. My point was that 'Field Turf'tm is by far the most preferred "turf" in the NFL.

[ASU Tailgaiteer]

Go to the link the guy provided for the stuff they have at NAU. You can see in the pictures a track underneath. And it is a roll-up real-grass turf that they are using. It looks like a good idea. Obviously I don't know the price. I don't know how it compares in terms of speed to roll up compared to what we have. It sounds, however, that our athletic department is looking into something very similar to this.

Wouldn't it be easier to put down Field Turf, then investigate some type of portable track solution. Seems like less work...

[clenz]

Wouldn't it be easier to put down Field Turf, then investigate some type of portable track solution. Seems like less work...This seems to be what UNI should do, and has been discussed ad nausium on Panther Nation....along with this entire subject.

[89Hen]

Actually the NFL players prefer the natural grass according to the NFLPU survey.
Waste of breath doc, I've posted the survey here several times but somehow fans want to say what the players prefer instead of just looking at the player survey that ranks natural grass higher. xpeacex

[UD77]

I don't understand why the NCAA hasn't taken action against it.. Astroturf absolutely shreds up knee ligaments

What is the NOVA field surface?

[UNIFanSince1983]

Wouldn't it be easier to put down Field Turf, then investigate some type of portable track solution. Seems like less work...

Well you would think so, but apparently not. Some people forget that we actually have a Top 10 track program (or used to until the coach went to Arkansas this year). It is arguably our best sport.

[achrist70]

We are actually ranked sixth in the nation according to the track team, and I don't think you would want to put a portable track on field turf.

[aust42]

I've never understood why teams just don't play on grass. There's nothing that is gonna artificially replace a good grass field. Am I naive about costs? How much more expensive can it be to maintain a grass field? If you have a state of the art drainage system, tearing up grass shouldn't be a problem when it rains.

[TCisMYhero]

I've never understood why teams just don't play on grass. There's nothing that is gonna artificially replace a good grass field. Am I naive about costs? How much more expensive can it be to maintain a grass field? If you have a state of the art drainage system, tearing up grass shouldn't be a problem when it rains.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[aust42]

I've never understood why teams just don't play on grass. There's nothing that is gonna artificially replace a good grass field. Am I naive about costs? How much more expensive can it be to maintain a grass field? If you have a state of the art drainage system, tearing up grass shouldn't be a problem when it rains.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Don't you need a drainage system for an artificial turf field too? I'd like to see a cost analysis just out of curiosity.

I walked on Delawares new practice field turf this past season and I didn't think it was that great. Nothing beats grass, period. But the field turf sure is better than the old turf when they laid down a pool table surface over a concrete field.

[JayJ79]

Wouldn't it be easier to put down Field Turf, then investigate some type of portable track solution. Seems like less work...

Then what would they do for the Iowa Boat Show, Concerts, and all the other events that they have in there during non-football season?

[JayJ79]

I've never understood why teams just don't play on grass. There's nothing that is gonna artificially replace a good grass field. Am I naive about costs? How much more expensive can it be to maintain a grass field? If you have a state of the art drainage system, tearing up grass shouldn't be a problem when it rains.

Johnny Gray prefers real grass.... :p

But alas, it doesn't really work too well in the UNI-Dome.

[appfan2008]

I've never understood why teams just don't play on grass. There's nothing that is gonna artificially replace a good grass field. Am I naive about costs? How much more expensive can it be to maintain a grass field? If you have a state of the art drainage system, tearing up grass shouldn't be a problem when it rains.

you try growing grass in boone nc... some places that is easier said than done... it is much easier and cheaper to have what we have than the real stuff

[TCisMYhero]

Then what would they do for the Iowa Boat Show, Concerts, and all the other events that they have in there during non-football season?

xhurrayx GET. RID. OF. THEM.

Jeff Dunham is the best thing to come to the Dome (outside of football, track, and wrestling nationals) since Nelly in '00. Do it all in the Mac.

[JayJ79]

xhurrayx GET. RID. OF. THEM.

Jeff Dunham is the best thing to come to the Dome (outside of football, track, and wrestling nationals) since Nelly in '00. Do it all in the Mac.

can't fit very many boats in the McLeod. And I'm sure the school can't really do without the income they get renting out the Dome for such things.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Yeah that is for sure! They need that money bad!

[turfdoc]

I've never understood why teams just don't play on grass. There's nothing that is gonna artificially replace a good grass field. Am I naive about costs? How much more expensive can it be to maintain a grass field? If you have a state of the art drainage system, tearing up grass shouldn't be a problem when it rains.

Simply put the cost of maintaining a grass field and a field turf field over a 12 year period is about the same. The problem is that a grass field inital cost is lower with a higher year to year maintenance budget.

Advantage: Artificial it is easier to fund raise to buy a product than it is to fund raise for the Maintenance of a facility

That means higher a trained turfgrass manager to maintain the field (I am including that in the actual cost of the field maintenance). Unfortunately universities and the unions that run them do not allow for this in most cases. With field turf you buy the product and then you groom it biweekly and the guy who rides the mowers on the grounds can maintain it, no knowledge needed.

ADVANTAGE: ARTIFICIAL we would like to spend more on materials and hire untrained labour than hire an educated individual.

The artificial field basically has an unlimited usage. Grass fields to be maintained must have restricted use. Penn State has 8 events on their field a year the Steelers have over 20. Look at the relative quality.

ADVANTAGE: Artificial this allows us to have fewer fields and takes up less space.

Now the grass fields have advantages on player safety, player preference, and cooling and the fact you need a lot of them increases the amount of green space on campuses so should be seen as an advantage but that does not outweigh the above reasoning.

My university is considering artificial vs grass and found they could maintain 5 grass fields for the cost of 2 artificial fields assuming a 12 year life span of the artificial fields. They are leaning towards artificial because they cannot fund raise for "maintenance"

[turfdoc]

you try growing grass in boone nc... some places that is easier said than done... it is much easier and cheaper to have what we have than the real stuff

Boone is one of the best places in the world for growing grass. according to a local golf course superintendent. The rainfall in the fall makes it hard to maintain the field throughout the season but that field should look brilliant in September. And as far as cheaper I really doubt it.

[JMU_MRD'03-'07]

I miss real grass fields. Don't worry about the end of the year shape the field is in. That's part of the game. There's nothing wrong with a mudbowl every now and then!! You take away that aspect of the game, you take away some of the skill involved in training for it, coaching during it, and playing with it.

Take baseball. Each field is different. Different dimensions, different grass types, different grass lengths, different dirt composition. ALL of it makes for great parts of home field advantage.

And don't get me into golf... that's the ultimate play the course the best way you can, despite the conditions.

So sack up all you ppl who say that the game benefits from being played on such a good surface.


If its about money, then ok...

[ngineer]

Penn had the old Astroturf back in the late 60's/early 70's, but I would assume that has been replaced since then. It was horrendous to play on.

[turfdoc]

I miss real grass fields. Don't worry about the end of the year shape the field is in. That's part of the game. There's nothing wrong with a mudbowl every now and then!! You take away that aspect of the game, you take away some of the skill involved in training for it, coaching during it, and playing with it.

Take baseball. Each field is different. Different dimensions, different grass types, different grass lengths, different dirt composition. ALL of it makes for great parts of home field advantage.

And don't get me into golf... that's the ultimate play the course the best way you can, despite the conditions.

So sack up all you ppl who say that the game benefits from being played on such a good surface.


If its about money, then ok...

I totally agree that as the field degrades throughout the season it adds new challenges to the team. Many offenses designed for ideal fields do worse when there is some rain and mud.

The NFL has been trying to strong arm the steelers into a artificial field for years. They stand by the grass as a player safety issue but a big part of it is home field advantage.

WHen it comes to hosting highschool games, concerts and other events field turf helps the revenue side of things but the cost of buidling and maintenance of the two are similar over a 12 year period.

[hippy@GSU]

GSU has the old style turf... Grass. I understand some of the advantages of Field Turf, but I just love the idea of an old grass field.

[UNIFanSince1983]

It is probably a little bit easier to get good grass in southern Georgia...

[GOKATS]

I love natural grass and would take it in a heartbeat, but it got to the point with weather the last few years that Montana St. needed a change, at times it could be an advantage with a little mud/and or snow but it got to the point where it hurt the Cats as much as the visitors. It looked absolutely beautiful until weather hit and it got torn up. With the weather in Bozeman it had no chance of healing and only got worse every game. Other than a 30+" crown there was no drainage, there was a couple inches of topsoil sitting on top of clay. With the big crown it was also not fair especially for the passing game.

The other problem we had was not only was the stadium natural grass but so is the practice field and trying to get spring ball in year after year was always a problem- at 4900' elevation in southwest Montana the chances of having bare ground or heavy, wet snow are about 50/50 at that time of year. I was one of the last to be convinced, but since the install of 'Field Turf' this summer I'm a firm believer for areas like Bozeman, and come next spring the Cats will be able to get spring ball in without worrying about the field conditions.

[WUTNDITWAA]

So, really just the four teams playing in domes in Iowa and the Dakotas. Thanks.

[clenz]

Grass in the upper Midwest is fantastic until about mid October....assuming it is a dry fall. After that they might as well take the grass out, to save what is left, and just play in the dirt. The cost to re-sod the grass every year, sometimes more than once, and keep it green past mid-October can prove to be too much for FCS and lower schools up North.

[achrist70]

It not just hard for smaller schools, most of the time by the end of the season schools like Iowa and Iowa State are painting their fields green to make them look good on TV, but are actually very torn up .

[turfdoc]

Grass in the upper Midwest is fantastic until about mid October....assuming it is a dry fall. After that they might as well take the grass out, to save what is left, and just play in the dirt. The cost to re-sod the grass every year, sometimes more than once, and keep it green past mid-October can prove to be too much for FCS and lower schools up North.

That is the problem with the grass fields the complete lack of understanding of how to manage them. You do not need to re-sod the field every year. There are ongoing management schemes that work quite well, especially if you stay of the stadium field from May 1 to August.

UNfortunately the unwillingness to hire an educated individual leads to the notion that you must tear it up and sod it.

[achrist70]

That is the problem with the grass fields the complete lack of understanding of how to manage them. You do not need to re-sod the field every year. There are ongoing management schemes that work quite well, especially if you stay of the stadium field from May 1 to August.

UNfortunately the unwillingness to hire an educated individual leads to the notion that you must tear it up and sod it.

I agree my High School had a very good management system, and every year except one where there were 2 or 3 monsoon games. However some of these fields have around 30 games a year on them that takes its toll.

[clenz]

I also just don't understand grass in a dome. It would work because of the lack of weather in a dome. However, there are two football teams in Cedar Falls that play their home games in the dome (8-10 extra regular season games), the state semi-finals and finals are held in the dome (12 semi-final games and 6 finals), 6 UNI home games, UNI practices when it can't be held outside due to weather, plus one or two HS games during that year that aren't CF teams.

That would destroy grass so fast it wouldn't be worth it. Plus all the shows, concerts, other sports events held in the dome.

[turfdoc]

I also just don't understand grass in a dome. It would work because of the lack of weather in a dome. However, there are two football teams in Cedar Falls that play their home games in the dome (8-10 extra regular season games), the state semi-finals and finals are held in the dome (12 semi-final games and 6 finals), 6 UNI home games, UNI practices when it can't be held outside due to weather, plus one or two HS games during that year that aren't CF teams.

That would destroy grass so fast it wouldn't be worth it. Plus all the shows, concerts, other sports events held in the dome.

I do not think anyone here is advocating grass in a dome. That wouldn't work. We are talking about outside.

[GOKATS]

I do not think anyone here is advocating grass in a dome. That wouldn't work. We are talking about outside.

I let that one slide, but I think the new Cardinals Stadium (NFL, my bad) has a roll out grass surface, granted it's not a dome, but it could work.

[achrist70]

I let that one slide, but I think the new Cardinals Stadium (NFL, my bad) has a roll out grass surface, granted it's not a dome, but it could work.

You are right they actually slide an entire field in and out of the stadium.

[turfdoc]

I let that one slide, but I think the new Cardinals Stadium (NFL, my bad) has a roll out grass surface, granted it's not a dome, but it could work.

And the houston texans have a grass but their "dome" is convertable.

You can grow grass in the old style pressurized domes that relied heavily on natural light. The original astrodome was supposed to have real grass but when it failed they had to rush astroturf on to the deck...hence the name.

Their is actually a patented management scheme to keep turf alive in the old style domes (I do not think any are left in use). It was developed by Michigan state and implemented in the silverdome when the U.S. Hosted the world cup in the 90s. Essentially you need an extensive fungicide program an artificial lighting to keep the grass healthy. as all of us with home loawns know grass does not like shade.

[WUTNDITWAA]

And the houston texans have a grass but their "dome" is convertable.

You can grow grass in the old style pressurized domes that relied heavily on natural light. The original astrodome was supposed to have real grass but when it failed they had to rush astroturf on to the deck...hence the name.

Their is actually a patented management scheme to keep turf alive in the old style domes (I do not think any are left in use). It was developed by Michigan state and implemented in the silverdome when the U.S. Hosted the world cup in the 90s. Essentially you need an extensive fungicide program an artificial lighting to keep the grass healthy. as all of us with home loawns know grass does not like shade.


I bet it's humid as hades wherever grass is grown inside.