Albany Football on upswing

[Ruler]

Great article that Danefan found that summarizes where we are and where we headed.

http://www.troyrecord.com/articles/2008/12/06/sports/doc493a1af88e8ad026578429.txt

From what I hear and now read 63 rides are certain.

[blueballs]

The GSU faithful look froward to your visit come September 2009.

[TexasTerror]

63 rides?

Will the rest of the NEC join Albany in doing so? Albany may get a cakewalk situation to the AQ if no one else follows suit.

[Ruler]

I doubt it, they won't have 63 while in the NEC. I believe they will get to 45 inside the NEC. I believe UA wants out of the NEC and would upgrade the second a conference (CAA/AE....) should come calling.

[Dane96]

Two things...as I am typing from a small German town:

1- Albany is not going anywhere near 63 rides unless something has changed in the last two weeks; and

2- The NEC will never go to 63 rides...ever.

Yes, I agree and side with Ruler on where we should be, etc....but Stony Brook's cash-cow is no longer....and they will feel the effect of Title IX. They arent even compliant yet...and they spend 20mm on the sports program and 3mm on football.

Albany wont be hitting 63 for at least 5 years, IMHO. 45...yeah...definitely.

[CRAZY_DANE]

Great article that Danefan found that summarizes where we are and where we headed.

http://www.troyrecord.com/articles/2008/12/06/sports/doc493a1af88e8ad026578429.txt

From what I hear and now read 63 rides are certain.

I hope success is rewarded. UA football has been very strong and deserves support.

UA is the only 1 of 3 SUNY Centers offering football, yet doesn't have a new stadium or offer full scholies. Despite this fact, UA has been the most successful football SUNY Center over the past 10 years. UAlbany deserves to be equitably treated.

UA is in a geographic sweet spot. With the demise of MAAC football, NY has a lot less colleges fielding teams. NY has 20M residents and only 3 FBS teams and not many more offering full schollie FCS teams. From NYC to Canada there are only 3 football teams left. Marist is non-schollie and Army is always "struggling" (to be nice). That leaves Albany to step up.

If UA is going to make a name for itself, it has to be in football. New York has over 200 colleges and it feels like every one offers basketball.

[DFW HOYA]

UA is in a geographic sweet spot. With the demise of MAAC football, NY has a lot less colleges fielding teams. NY has 20M residents and only 3 FBS teams and not many more offering full schollie FCS teams. From NYC to Canada there are only 3 football teams left. Marist is non-schollie and Army is always "struggling" (to be nice). That leaves Albany to step up.

Three? What about Colgate and Syracuse? (Unless you mean schools along the Thruway...)

[CRAZY_DANE]

Three? What about Colgate and Syracuse? (Unless you mean schools along the Thruway...)


Colgate is not a FBS college. I apologize if I mispoke. There are 3 NY FBS colleges. They are:

1) SUNY Buffalo
2) Army
3) Syracuse

New York has lost a ton of FCS schools such as Siena, Iona, Canicus etc. We lost more FCS colleges than some states have FCS colleges.

Many of New York's FCS colleges will likely never move up for various reasons. The Ivies do their thing (2 NY schools). Marist is going to non-schollie Pioneer. The elimination of the army draft will mean West Point will always struggle in FBS. So what is left? Syracuse and SUNY Buffalo.

There are 20M residents in NYS. Plenty of room for 1 or 2 more FBS or top FCS colleges in this huge state. Who are the contenders? Only SBU and UA.

There is 0 FBS colleges from BC to Syracuse.
There is 1 FBS college from NYC to Canada (West Point) and as I said they're in tough shape... I say that as a huge Army fan.

Albany is in a great geographic sweet spot... if they want it and set the goal. There are millions of people living within an hour of Albany. They aren't coming out now because our facilities suck and we're not bringing "brand names" to campus. Bring Army to campus and you'll have a sell out.

Just saying. They're in a great geographic spot.

[aceinthehole]

Two things...as I am typing from a small German town:

1- Albany is not going anywhere near 63 rides unless something has changed in the last two weeks; and

2- The NEC will never go to 63 rides...ever.

Yes, I agree and side with Ruler on where we should be, etc....but Stony Brook's cash-cow is no longer....and they will feel the effect of Title IX. They arent even compliant yet...and they spend 20mm on the sports program and 3mm on football.

Albany wont be hitting 63 for at least 5 years, IMHO. 45...yeah...definitely.

He's spot on.

1. I can't speak directly about SUNY politics and funding, but its clear, despite some fans hope, that $$$ for a stadium and 63 rides is just not available right now. It sucks, but SBU had a political sugar daddy and got to the table first. Sure, something could change, but as D96 aludes to, it must be pretty drastic.

2. The NEC is almost never going to get to 63 rides. The smaller schools just can't afford it. Remember, the NEC is at 32 now, and is increasing by 2 a year until they reach 40. They could speed up the process, or increase the limit to 45, but I agree that's probably as high as it will go.

Its my guess that Albany is just waiting for the AE football members to make a move. UA can't force their hand, but is actively waiting for an opportunity to join those schools when the chance comes. As long as UNH and Maine stay in the CAA, then Albany has its AQ in the NEC.

[CRAZY_DANE]

It certainly won't be a quick process. I don't mean to suggest otherwise. Albany has a lot of challenges in the near term. We need a stadium and a conference upgrade.

Still, the fact remains:


Great Location. Millions of people live within 30 minutes to an hour of UA (Hudson Valley to Lake George and Eastern Mass to Utica)
History shows state funding for a stadium will eventually come through. There are 2 examples of that happening.
We are getting to a critical mass of large northeast state schools that could sponsor their own league. UA and SBU are now willing competitors.
NY's heavy private college landscape means few colleges can compete (or want to compete, Ivies and Patriot) at high level FCS or FBS. They all fight for basketball, lax etc. Huge void for high level football.


So, few colleges have the financial ability or desire in New York coupled with the mass of a large university in a densely populated corridor of the country spells top FCS or FBS football.

The only requirement is time.

[jpg_91]

I agree with everything that Crazy_Dane has mentioned and as an Albany Alum I feel like we are at a crossroads as far as the direction that Albany needs to go. Albany needs to create an identity within the SUNY system or I fear it will soon be relegated to the second tier of state schools in NY. Because it lacks a Medical school and a Law school it already lacks an identity nationally but a step up to FBS (even if it is a 10+ year plan) would bring notoriety to the school that can not be overestimated. Football rules when it comes to college sports and I only see it getting bigger. I know funding is tight right now in NYS but we really need to get up to 63 rides for the ability to play some money games and get some more national exposure. If Albany doesn't step up now they will never again be mentioned in the same breath as Buffalo and Stony Brook.

[DFW HOYA]

Well, at least no one is suggesting Albany and the Patriot League. Check this quote from NY Daily News columnist Dick Weiss about Rutgers' budget scandal, which saw the firing of its athletic director Thursday:

"Let’s just hope Rutgers doesn’t turn into a Patriot League program when the dust settles."

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/weiss/2008/12/mulcahy-rutgers-knew-about-swe.html

[danefan]

The next two years will pave the way for Albany football. If there isn't progress soon, you will see many football alumns, who have been big supporters since the DI start up days start to fall off, and take their money with them.

What we are seeing now is plain and simple stagnation. There are hush hush discussions about scholarships and facilities and conference affiliation that amount to nothing. The fact that no intentions have been made public is, IMO, an indication that someone is blowing smoke up someone's a$$. Who knows who is the a$$ and who's blowing the smoke though.

How long can the Bipper stay on with no progress? Club-DIII-DII-FCS(Non Scholly)-FCSPartial-FCS Full is the natural progression that everyone wants to see. What are they waiting for?

Staying in the NEC will be fine if it is a means to an end. No offense to the NEC but it makes aboslutely no sense for Albany's long-term aspirations to include being affiliated with small private liberal arts colleges while our natural rivals (SBU, UNH, Maine, URI, UMass etc....) excel elsewhere.

This is a bit of a rant, partly because I'm tired (I've been up 28 hours now and just got off a redeye from L.A.) and partly because its frustrating to see Coach Ford have to deal with this BS.

And the NYS Budget issue should have no bearing on scholarships. The scholarship money does not come from the state. It comes from the Foundation, and has apparently been funded for quite some time now....(once again, the veracity of that statement depends on the smoke and a$$ statement I made earlier).

I have asked this a ton of times...why can't there be a public plan? Alumns are much more likely to get behind something they know is thought out. There aren't many (if any) SUNY Albany alumns writing unrestricted million dollar checks.

Same goes for the stadium. Put together a nice little package requesting donations that include stadium plans, a DVD flythrough, naming packages, etc... and you are much more likley to see some checks filling up the mailbox.

Maybe they don't even have the proper resources to fundraise?

[Ruler]

Danefan, I know all about the redeye to LA. Its a bitch.

Some good points have been made and some inaccuarte ones as well. Every Albany fan wants to be in the CAA/AE/Hybrid of whatever, thats a given. The one thing I will say and it came from the highest of all sources is that FULL SCHOLARSHIP FOOTBALL(50-63 rides) WILL BE A REALIZATION @ UA. THEY HAVE THE $ NOW! Many who have listened or read my rants know this has been my my battle cry from the start! McElroy is not the source but he has alluded it to it in this article.

The question is when? I have been told by 2009 and have been told 2011. IMHO I assume (you know what they say) this will begin to occur after "re -alignment" in 2011. The NEC will have to go to 45 or UA leaves. 45 enables us to lineup and play with anyone consistently in the CAA or SoCon. 45 will give us two deep of scholarship kids.

The lack of a stadium IS NOT holding UA back. Lack of a conference is as well as Title IX. Lets call a spade a spade. They will probably spend 15 million and redo University Field. Enclose it, scoreboard etc.

Ford ,if we are lucky will be here to see it through. I hope he is as he is a big reason I still follow as closely as I do. I will alway "bleed purple" and be a part of the "purple kingdom" even when he decides to retire, but it may not be the same without the bipper!

Danefan you are right about a real point, If they fall by the wayside HUGE Alumni $ (and you know who I mean) will go with it!

[jpg_91]

I too believe that UA will eventually get to full scholarship level also but every year that we wait to get there puts us a year behind Stony Brook and light years behind Buffalo. I mean Buffalo is playing in a pretty major Bowl this year and Stony Brook has games scheduled against 1A opponents next year. Both of these will result in big money coming into the schools that UA does not have access to right now. When SB left the NEC I originally thought they were making a huge mistake but without the public plan that danefan talked about it seems more and more that they were way more forward thinking than UA.

[aceinthehole]

I too believe that UA will eventually get to full scholarship level also but every year that we wait to get there puts us a year behind Stony Brook and light years behind Buffalo. I mean Buffalo is playing in a pretty major Bowl this year and Stony Brook has games scheduled against 1A opponents next year. Both of these will result in big money coming into the schools that UA does not have access to right now. When SB left the NEC I originally thought they were making a huge mistake but without the public plan that danefan talked about it seems more and more that they were way more forward thinking than UA.

Who has won more games vs. full-scholarship CAA teams - UA or SBU?
I think its Albany!

Who do you think is going to make the FCS playoffs first - UA or SBU?
I'm betting on Albany!

Outside of a few upcoming FBS beatdowns, how is SBU better off than when they left the NEC?

[jpg_91]

Up until now Albany has definitely been the better football team. I completely agree with that. I'm just pointing out that SB has a game next year against Army and a game the year after against Buffalo. These are games that Albany needs to get on their schedule to gain notoriety. CCSU luckily got an FBS game this past year but those games are not going to happen too often for teams under the 63 scholarship level in the future. We (and CCSU unless you want to be left behind) should get out of the NEC and chart a path to the future.

[Redwyn]

You do have to worry a bit about the way the state is working at the moment with any of these plans. Democrats have historically pushed state programs to rely on endowment building rather than full funding (Cuomo and Patterson come to mind at the moment). It's not a bad idea. Endowment building promotes longevity and an increased flexibility in the long term. Just not in the short term. Thus, if what is going on with the academic cut backs at SBU is any representation of the rest of the SUNY system, then it's very likely no athletic changes will be made unless already in the works. That unfortunately includes Albany's stadium and scholarship increases.

Endowment is the major "safety net" that a university needs while investing into its athletic program. This is the major splitting point between SBU and Albany. While SBU has an endowment that's due to break 300 million in the next year (and that's just from the fundraiser in the last 3 years, I would place the total significantly higher), Albany itself marks its endowment at around 30 million. To illustrate this difference, the University of Cambridge, an 800 year old institution this year, has a total endowment of just 2 billion (University of Cambridge is a state school in the British socialized education scheme). SBU is 50. This isn't just a good job at fund raising...it's miraculous. Again, was there help? Yes. Would that help alone have gotten this? No. Having worked with the association a good deal, they do a fantastic job on their own of making this happen.

What of the future though? I'd say there's an outstanding chance neither school will move any time soon. I say this because the pending conference reorganization over the next decade will make it completely unfeasible in the short term to move, and the alumni base would likely be UNHAPPY with such a move. SBU and Albany have plenty of high quality competitors (and come now everyone, both FBS and FCS have bottom dwellers) that not only cater to their athletic abilities, but to the traditional rivals of their alumni base. Yes, Buffalo is there, but I'd make a case that Albany would much rather play U Mass every year than Buffalo, just like I know Stony Brook savors Hofstra over Penn State. And, like SBU is doing in a few years, Buffalo every once in a while works, sort of like the over talkative friend you have over sparingly. Finally, I believe that it is only a matter of time before one more America East member takes up football (my money's on Binghamton for endowment and rivalry reasons), the conference will bring in Football as a sport. UNH, Albany, Stony Brook, Binghamton, and likely one or two football only (Hofstra and U Mass post CAA breakup perhaps? Just thinking geographically)...my mouth waters.

However, I will say this: if Albany EVER moves to the FBS level, SBU will follow. I believe the opposite to be just as true. The two are, at least athletically, inexorably linked. :D

[Redwyn]

Who has won more games vs. full-scholarship CAA teams - UA or SBU?
I think its Albany!

Who do you think is going to make the FCS playoffs first - UA or SBU?
I'm betting on Albany!

Outside of a few upcoming FBS beatdowns, how is SBU better off than when they left the NEC?

1. Yes, I'd definitely expect it to be Albany. They're a very good team.
2. Not sure...NEC is definitely weaker than BSC, and the coach is good, so prob Albany, though the way playoff politics look I'd say not till NEC has the AQ.

3. You need to look at the big picture on this one. By scheduling 1-A opponents, SBU just made a massive recruitment statement. Unlike Albany, when a local decides to stay local, he has to choose Hofstra or SBU. Sorry Engineer fans, but RPI doesn't quite make that grade. One day perhaps. Hofstra has won in a massive way because of its well known reputation. To stay in the LI recruitment run, SBU HAD to do this, and quickly. Even if they're predestined to be killed, if you were a recruit, wouldn't you love to play just one game in South Florida? The fans in that stadium; It doesn't matter that they hate you, you're there, the sounds, the feeling, it's in that one moment. That's a pull. It's similar when I recruit rowers. It's not about how often SBU wins (though crew is quite strong there), it's about who and where we row. Boston at the Head of the Charles, Boathouse row in Philadelphia, spring training in South Carolina, NYC on the NYAC Olympic course, that's how we bring people in (and we can't give money, so it's far harder to lock someone down).

The question is, while it's clear why SBU has to do it, is it something that's that pressing for Albany? My guess would be not until it's ordained that there are to be full scholarships. That decision would have to land first, and while the stage may or may not be set, someone needs to pull the trigger. For all I know it would take RPI going DI, but let's be honest: if MIT in all these years hasn't found a reason to, why would RPI even consider it?

[jpg_91]

Do you really think UMASS continues to play Albany in 4 years if we haven't gotten past 45 scholarships and they make a move to FBS? Absolutely not. Unless a win against us counts towards Bowl eligibility what is the point of playing an FCS team. I understand your point about the endowment and my only response to that would be that Albany needs to gain national prominence in order to raise theirs. The school of nanoscience is amazing but we'll see if we ever get a donor from their like SB got from their hedge fund man. Unfortunately for Albany I see sports as their only ticket to remain on par with the other NYS "flagships". Not to go completely off track here but I think the school needs to integrate itself with both Albany Med and Albany Law for a truly bright future. The sports issue is just a little more relevant to this board.

[Seawolf97]

Looks like JPG91 and Redwyn nailed it. Both excellent commentaries about two very big NY State schools. Good jobxthumbsupx

[Ruler]

Very good commentary indeed Redwynn.

Let me clear, Albany nor SBU will EVER BE FBS!!! SBU's $ pipeline has been turned off and will be dealing with Title IX soon. Albany will not play UMASS if they go FBS. It will be Army or Buffalo thats it. Albany has no interest in FBS football. they are only interested in in full scholarship FCS.

[CRAZY_DANE]

Very good commentary indeed Redwynn.

Let me clear, Albany nor SBU will EVER BE FBS!!! SBU's $ pipeline has been turned off and will be dealing with Title IX soon. Albany will not play UMASS if they go FBS. It will be Army or Buffalo thats it. Albany has no interest in FBS football. they are only interested in in full scholarship FCS.

Neither the Albany athletic department nor administration may desire a move to FBS but its critical if this university is going to get out of the shadow of UB and SBU. I can’t speak for the administration or athletic department but I can tell you that UB is nationally known because of their FBS program’s success this year. SBU is on course to follow them into FBS. UB is already FBS and despite the chorus of naysayers, they have succeeded at FBS. They are on their way to a bowl game in January. SBU is lining up FBS opponents. What about Albany?

Albany has done very well in FCS but to what outcome? UA could win every football game from now to eternity at its current level and we’d still have a hard time attracting a crowd at University Field. We’d still have limited name national recognition. We need to think bigger.

UAlbany needs to target FBS as its ultimate goal. I’m not suggesting it's easy. I’m not suggesting it should be done in the next few years. I am suggesting that UA needs to stand on its own. We don’t have a medical or law school and that hurts our prestige and national name recognition. Our long time SUNY Center football peers are way ahead of us in scholarships and facilities. Athletics can help drive our academics. We need backing by the people so that politicians help us when we request assistance. We need to keep up or surpass our SUNY peers. Set high standards!

As I said before, we have a great geographic location. We are in the middle a major population corridor and there are very few competitive football programs. Going FBS gives UA that “real deal” name recognition that FCS does not give us. New York has a ton of FCS schools but only 3 FBS. Unless we suddenly build a top 20 basketball program or add a law school and medical school we will never have a national name. This is our best bet for getting out of the SUNY "flagship" shadow. UA football fans need to buy in before we ask anyone else to do so. I'd like to see more support from the posters on this and Big Purple Fans websites. Once again, UA seems to set very low goals. Full FCS football isn’t a major accomplishment for an 18,000 person SUNY Center… We should have been there 20 years ago.

[jpg_91]

Crazy_Dane, looks like you and I are on the same wavelength completely. UA needs to chart a path that is very different than SB and Buffalo if it is to succeed nationally and yet the administration seems content to follow those other schools models. What a shame.

[Seawolf97]

Crazy_Dane, looks like you and I are on the same wavelength completely. UA needs to chart a path that is very different than SB and Buffalo if it is to succeed nationally and yet the administration seems content to follow those other schools models. What a shame.

I think it is abit premature for either SBU or Albany to talk about an FBS upgrade. SBU just completed its 10th season as a D-1 program and I believe Albany is on the same time line. Putting aside the won loss records for moment I see SBU ahead of the curve for now going to 63 scholarships in 2009, we had 55 this season. Albany wont see 40 for several more years if they remain in the NEC. We tied for 2nd in the full scholarship Big South which isnt bad and will play South Florida in 2010.
Looking out the next 10 years I would expect StonyBrook to still be in FCS and maybe then consider a move to FBS -maybe. The New York market is certainly their with 13 million people to draw from . Using the theory if you build it they will come we could support a modest FBS program. Our closest FBS team is Rutgers over 80 miles away. But that is conjecture. For now the plan is to become a solid Top 20 program in FCS
and stay there. The advantage now is we will play money games going forward and maybe win a few in the process. So far StonyBrook has been willing to roll the dice. So the next 10 years will be interesting to watch as both SBU and Albany develop.

[jpg_91]

The University of South Florida just completed its 11th season of Football-at any level. I'm sure that they were ridiculed for some of their decisions at first but I have to tell you that I doubt many people outside of the state of Florida had heard of any other school besides The University of Florida and Florida State prior to them making their move to 1A. Granted, both Albany and Stony Brook have additional challenges that USF didn't have but their decision to gain national prominence has worked out quite well. Just wish we had forward thinkers like that up here in NY.

[Seawolf97]

The University of South Florida just completed its 11th season of Football-at any level. I'm sure that they were ridiculed for some of their decisions at first but I have to tell you that I doubt many people outside of the state of Florida had heard of any other school besides The University of Florida and Florida State prior to them making their move to 1A. Granted, both Albany and Stony Brook have additional challenges that USF didn't have but their decision to gain national prominence has worked out quite well. Just wish we had forward thinkers like that up here in NY.

I couldnt agree more about South Florida and they play to sellout crowds
but Florida is a 1-A football state. SBU needs to fill our stadium for the
majority of their home games something we havent done. Tampa is a good market for college football even with the Bucs. South Florida has no natural rivals in the area- Florida and Florida St are trip even with the Interstates so that has helped along with the Big East membership.
SBU needs a larger fan base and wins against major FCS opponents and maybe a win or two against an FBS team ( Army?) . If we establish a winning reputation going to FBS should be a consideration even if it is the MAC . Still thats way out there even for a school of 24,000.
I can almost guarantee if SBU ever had few FBS home games we couldnt
print enough tickets. But this is fantasy scheduling at its best .

[jpg_91]

I agree that Florida is a 1A state but I truly believe that the only reason NY doesn't produce more quality high school football players is a lack of big time college football in state. For a state with nearly 20 million people the lack of big time prospects is pretty glaring. Build up the in state schools and I think that changes. I also believe that if the SUNY schools really want to compete with other big time state schools they need to increase their out of state enrollment. This would bring in a lot more money from tuition and also raise exposure nationally. I know I've said it before but use big time football as a tool. I'm not foolish enough to think this is an overnight process but how about a 10 to 15 year plan-open to a public referendum that states some of these goals. I believe SUNY needs to be reorganized in order to succeed but Spitzer's plan for 2 flagships was a slap in the face to Albany and Binghamton. Build up the 4 centers, talk to the other major state schools in the northeast (Maine, UMASS, NH) and see if they have interest in forming a FBS conference consisting of these schools. This could allow all the schools to build up at the same pace, allow for state rivalries and build up national exposure for all of the schools.

[DFW HOYA]

Looking out the next 10 years I would expect StonyBrook to still be in FCS and maybe then consider a move to FBS -maybe.

Unles an Eastern version of the Sun Belt appears (the "Rust Belt") as an incubator for I-A programs like this, there will be no institutional incentive to go further than 63.

[Ruler]

2010 should determine both UA and SBU's futures. In 2010 IMHO based on what I have "heard" Albany will be an FCS program with 63 scholarships. So will SBU, but in an undesirable conference. SBU has $ troubles ahead and Title IX issures. Only then we will know the answer to the question "was this a good idea tfor SBU to go to the Big South or should they have waited it out in the NEC?" I know the President wanted full scholarship football and with LaValles help they got it. What now? Can you improve or even maintain?

I know the desire is for FBS but I just don't see it for anyone outside of Buffalo. What happens when Turner Gill moves on? Buffalo was on the verge of dropping back to FCS until this year came along.

Unfortunatley Syracuse is the top dog. I don't like anymore then anyone else does. Hell, Cortland could probably give Syracuse everything they can handle.

[CRAZY_DANE]

Unles an Eastern version of the Sun Belt appears (the "Rust Belt") as an incubator for I-A programs like this, there will be no institutional incentive to go further than 63.

There is no question that there will be a Northeast FBS conference (Sun Belt style). It’s only a matter of time.

SUNY has always bench marked against itself. It was a very inward looking system. SUNY didn’t care what California or Michigan was doing, only New York mattered.

The arms race started with Buffalo's move to D1. The other SUNY Centers are not going to sit back and be eclipsed. If you don't know New York, you may laugh at SUNY or may have never even heard of it... but you will know SUNY. The SUNY campuses were content with the status quo as long as nobody moved but someone did move. Buffalo jumped and it’s been a steadily increasing race ever since. I can feel the competitive fires grow every year.

New York (SUNY) will join every other state in competitive football. It just took New York longer to get the competitive fires to build. UA must compete. I'm helping to stoke the fire. The Capitol Region has always taken a back seat to Buffalo and NYC. I’m going to fight to see our SUNY Center doesn’t do the same thing.

This is New York’s Capitol SUNY Center.

[Jackman]

Unles an Eastern version of the Sun Belt appears (the "Rust Belt") as an incubator for I-A programs like this, there will be no institutional incentive to go further than 63.
This is the same problem we've run into. There's nowhere suitable to play FBS ball.

Prior to Buffalo's move, New York and Massachusetts were by far the largest two states (in population) without a state school at the FBS level. The next largest are tied way down at 40th in population: Maine and New Hampshire.

New York and Massachusetts remain by far the largest two states without a state school in a BCS conference. The next largest is Utah at 34th, which shouldn't even count since they've been to more BCS bowls than most BCS members.

[mainejeff]

Prior to Buffalo's move, New York and Massachusetts were by far the largest two states (in population) without a state school at the FBS level. The next largest are tied way down at 40th in population: Maine and New Hampshire.

How much does population matter when you are fighting a multitude of other D-1 institutions for funding, attention, etc? Maine has a population of 1.2 million and ONE D-1 program. How many do Massachusetts and NY have?

[danefan]

How much does population matter when you are fighting a multitude of other D-1 institutions for funding, attention, etc? Maine has a population of 1.2 million and ONE D-1 program. How many do Massachusetts and NY have?

NY has 3 FBS teams - Buffalo, Cuse and Army.

Buffalo might as well be in Ohio.
Cuse is still king as long as they are a Big East team (suck or not)
Army isn't winning any battles for any football related causes (thank goodness they are willing to fight the other battles thoughxthumbsupx )

There is plenty of room in NY for another FBS team. One in upstate about 2.5 hours from NYC, Syracuse and Boston seems about right to me.xsmiley_wix

Now, for funding......that's a whole different ball game. Buffalo gets the cash crop of funding from the state of NY. Stony Brook used to have a blank check, but that has gone by the wayside since the November elections.

[Jackman]

How much does population matter when you are fighting a multitude of other D-1 institutions for funding, attention, etc? Maine has a population of 1.2 million and ONE D-1 program. How many do Massachusetts and NY have?
Mass has one public D1 program in a state with 6.5 million people. There are 5 other D1s, all private schools. One doesn't play football, another isn't sure it wants to play football, two others are non-scholarship, and the last is BC.

[jpg_91]

New York has roughly 20 million people. It has 3 public D1 programs (4 if you want to consider Cornell, since there is a state assisted portion there). Buffalo is FBS, Albany and Stony Brook are both FCS but Albany only offers 30 scholarships right now while I believe SB is at 55. In addition to the state schools, NY has FBS football at West Point and at Syracuse and FCS football at Columbia, Colgate, Fordham, Hofstra, Wagner, and Marist.

With roughly 440,000 students enrolled throughout the state at SUNY campuses it seems ridiculous that only Buffalo is in FBS and Albany and Stony Brook aren't even at 63 scholarships yet.

[Seawolf97]

It should be very interesting in 10 years to see what the football
landscape looks like. This budget crisis will be history by then and schools like Albany and SBU could be hitting 30,000 in student enrollment and Buffalo may be in the mid 30 s. So then what? An FBS conference
exclusive to Northeast programs -with all sports ? Maybe on the model of the Mountain West? You would need 7 maybe 8 core members and that could be the problem or one of many problems - Buffalo is there, SBU and Albany might be able to swing it that leaves 5 programs in the Northeast to join. Those 5 maybe hard to come by even if UMass and UNH said yes. There arent that many programs left to sign on.

[rmutv]

If Albany goes full scholarship and wants out of the NEC, where do they go? There'd have to be something in line before they make the jump, and hoping for a CAA/America East/whatever they want to call it splinter cell to jump off and evolve is asking for a lot.

With the current economic climate and the over-saturation of football programs in general, the NEC probably caps at 45 scholarships and Albany stays there. Albany would be better served in helping the NEC grow rather than jumping ship.

[Seawolf97]

New York has roughly 20 million people. It has 3 public D1 programs (4 if you want to consider Cornell, since there is a state assisted portion there). Buffalo is FBS, Albany and Stony Brook are both FCS but Albany only offers 30 scholarships right now while I believe SB is at 55. In addition to the state schools, NY has FBS football at West Point and at Syracuse and FCS football at Columbia, Colgate, Fordham, Hofstra, Wagner, and Marist.

With roughly 440,000 students enrolled throughout the state at SUNY campuses it seems ridiculous that only Buffalo is in FBS and Albany and Stony Brook aren't even at 63 scholarships yet.

I couldnt agree you with more. But as I just posted building a new conference for FBS football and maybe all sports -existing programs are hard to come by that may want to move up. Other than UMass and UNH maybe Army would follow- that would be 6. Forget Syracuse, UConn and Rutgers and Boston College and probably Navy. Do you steal an Akron or Bowling Green from the MAC? It would be very difficult to raise the 7 or 8 schools to develop a viable conference.

[Jackman]

Don't forget Temple. Philly is only considered southern in the CAA.

[Seawolf97]

If Albany goes full scholarship and wants out of the NEC, where do they go? There'd have to be something in line before they make the jump, and hoping for a CAA/America East/whatever they want to call it splinter cell to jump off and evolve is asking for a lot.

With the current economic climate and the over-saturation of football programs in general, the NEC probably caps at 45 scholarships and Albany stays there. Albany would be better served in helping the NEC grow rather than jumping ship.

Understood and we are probably going to re up in the Big South after our four year contract expires. But looking out 10 or 12 years from tonight I suspect SBU and Albany may want to test the waters of FBS football. I dont think Albany is going to sit tight in the NEC with 40 or 45 scholarships and I wouldnt blame them to jump to the CAA or a like conference. This fiscal mess will pass and athletic growth will pick up.

[Seawolf97]

Don't forget Temple. Philly is only considered southern in the CAA.

Forgot all about Temple! In a major market no less.

[jpg_91]

How about Delaware, Rhode Island maybe even Villanova. I think getting 8 relatively big schools into a potential conference would be easier than you think if everyone joins up at the start and is on pretty equal footing.

[Dane96]

I shake my head...in awe of some of the thoughts in this thread.

URI, UNH, Villanova...are absolutely NEVER GOING FBS.

Albany and Stony Brook arent going anywhere in the near future.

America East/CAA mix is more than likely.

I'm out.

[mainejeff]

I shake my head...in awe of some of the thoughts in this thread.

URI, UNH, Villanova...are absolutely NEVER GOING FBS.

Albany and Stony Brook arent going anywhere in the near future.

America East/CAA mix is more than likely.

I'm out.

Thank-you Dane96! Honestly, some of the stuff that is thrown out here.......xrolleyesx



Getting back to population talk.......remind me again how many people the states of Montana, North Dakota, and South Dakota have?

xcoffeex

[Jackman]

STATES BY POPULATION

1. California - 36,457,549
2. Texas - 23,507,783
3. New York - 19,306,183
4. Florida - 18,089,888
5. Illinois - 12,831,970
6. Pennsylvania - 12,440,621
7. Ohio - 11,478,006
8. Michigan - 10,095,643
9. Georgia - 9,363,941
10. North Carolina - 8,856,505
11. New Jersey - 8,724,560
12. Virginia - 7,642,884
13. Massachusetts - 6,437,193
14. Washington - 6,395,798
15. Indiana - 6,313,520
16. Arizona - 6,166,318
17. Tennessee - 6,038,803
18. Missouri - 5,842,713
19. Maryland - 5,615,727
20. Wisconsin - 5,556,506
21. Minnesota - 5,167,101
22. Colorado - 4,753,377
23. Alabama - 4,599,030
24. South Carolina - 4,321,249
25. Louisiana - 4,287,768
26. Kentucky - 4,206,074
27. Oregon - 3,700,758
28. Oklahoma - 3,579,212
29. Connecticut - 3,504,809
30. Iowa - 2,982,085
31. Mississippi - 2,910,540
32. Arkansas - 2,810,872
33. Kansas - 2,764,075
34. Utah - 2,550,063
35. Nevada - 2,495,529
36. New Mexico - 1,954,599
37. West Virginia - 1,818,470
38. Nebraska - 1,768,331
39. Idaho - 1,466,465
40. Maine - 1,321,574
41. New Hampshire - 1,314,895
42. Hawaii - 1,285,498
43. Rhode Island - 1,067,610
44. Montana - 944,632
45. Delaware - 853,476
46. South Dakota - 781,919
47. Alaska - 670,053
48. North Dakota - 635,867
49. Vermont - 623,908
50. Wyoming - 515,004

Bold = no state schools in FBS.
Underline = no state schools in BCS conferences.

[CRAZY_DANE]

STATES BY POPULATION

1. California - 36,457,549
2. Texas - 23,507,783
3. New York - 19,306,183
4. Florida - 18,089,888
5. Illinois - 12,831,970
6. Pennsylvania - 12,440,621
7. Ohio - 11,478,006
8. Michigan - 10,095,643
9. Georgia - 9,363,941
10. North Carolina - 8,856,505
11. New Jersey - 8,724,560
12. Virginia - 7,642,884
13. Massachusetts - 6,437,193
14. Washington - 6,395,798
15. Indiana - 6,313,520
16. Arizona - 6,166,318
17. Tennessee - 6,038,803
18. Missouri - 5,842,713
19. Maryland - 5,615,727
20. Wisconsin - 5,556,506
21. Minnesota - 5,167,101
22. Colorado - 4,753,377
23. Alabama - 4,599,030
24. South Carolina - 4,321,249
25. Louisiana - 4,287,768
26. Kentucky - 4,206,074
27. Oregon - 3,700,758
28. Oklahoma - 3,579,212
29. Connecticut - 3,504,809
30. Iowa - 2,982,085
31. Mississippi - 2,910,540
32. Arkansas - 2,810,872
33. Kansas - 2,764,075
34. Utah - 2,550,063
35. Nevada - 2,495,529
36. New Mexico - 1,954,599
37. West Virginia - 1,818,470
38. Nebraska - 1,768,331
39. Idaho - 1,466,465
40. Maine - 1,321,574
41. New Hampshire - 1,314,895
42. Hawaii - 1,285,498
43. Rhode Island - 1,067,610
44. Montana - 944,632
45. Delaware - 853,476
46. South Dakota - 781,919
47. Alaska - 670,053
48. North Dakota - 635,867
49. Vermont - 623,908
50. Wyoming - 515,004

Bold = no state schools in FBS.
Underline = no state schools in BCS conferences.

The facts remain:

1) New York is a huge state (3rd largest)
2) New York (SUNY) is the largest state university in the country (1st)
3) New York has a huge void of FBS teams (3, Usually only 1 is competitive)
4) Football is America's favorite college sport
5) Albany can compete against 3 NY FBS teams or dozens of NY BBall teams
6) Albany is a large state university and has the profile of a FBS type school (at least on paper)

It seems like a no brainer to me. Long term if Albany wants to be a national univerisity then I would put my money on football. Make it happen.

There is a difference between difficult and impossible.

[Ruler]

I am with Dane 96 on this! Albany and SBU WILL NEVER EVER BE FBS. I am not saying I wouldn't love it if they did make the jump. I am not sure Buffalo is going to stay FBS.

I do believe the NEC will cap out @ 45 scholarships. You will probably see teams drop back into the NEC ie Rhode Island, Northeastern etc IMHO. these teams will probably be replacing St. Francis, Wagner and Sacred Heart.

2010 I believe will sort things out. I can't see UA getting an invite to the CAA unless it breaks up, which is possible with 14 teams at that point. I doubt you will see an AE football league and if you did i think it would be caped scholarship wise like the NEC. I hope i am wrong on this.

I doubt seriously that SBU will re-up in the Big south due to the financial crisis that is coming for them. I could see them coming back to the NEC if the NEC went to 45 orn 50 rides as well. Maybe the NEC goes to 50, Wagner , SFA, SHU and maybe RMC leave for the Pioneer. RI, SBU, and NE come to the NEC for a 50 ride conference? Who knows?

[jpg_91]

I think it would be interesting to see the student applications/admissions for Buffalo after their Bowl appearance this year in comparison to the other 3 SUNY centers especially out of state applicants. I think that the national exposure alone will generate a lot more interest in UB and if the other state schools want to keep pace they are going to have to increase their national exposure as well. Forward looking leadership is all I'm asking for UA in particular and SUNY as a whole.

[danefan]

I think it would be interesting to see the student applications/admissions for Buffalo after their Bowl appearance this year in comparison to the other 3 SUNY centers especially out of state applicants. I think that the national exposure alone will generate a lot more interest in UB and if the other state schools want to keep pace they are going to have to increase their national exposure as well. Forward looking leadership is all I'm asking for UA in particular and SUNY as a whole.

I imagine it will be quite large in fact. I remember some figures being posted about the increase to UA applications after the UConn NCAA bball game. The power of major college athletics.......:) Too bad no one in the SUNY system seems to understand that.

[CRAZY_DANE]

I think it would be interesting to see the student applications/admissions for Buffalo after their Bowl appearance this year in comparison to the other 3 SUNY centers especially out of state applicants. I think that the national exposure alone will generate a lot more interest in UB and if the other state schools want to keep pace they are going to have to increase their national exposure as well. Forward looking leadership is all I'm asking for UA in particular and SUNY as a whole.

My list of college preferences included FBS football... and it was a big preference. I can't lie. Quality of life matters when picking a college. I would have loved to attend a FBS college. I don't imagine I'm alone in that view.

The fact was New York had 0 FBS state colleges when I was applying. In fact, there were 0 D1 NY state colleges. There is a choice now... granted Buffalo has terrible winters and a very depressed economy some people will choose them because they are FBS.

It is a fact. Kids love "brand name" universities. I'm sure a lot of New Yorkers would love to give it back to their Florida cousins when they mention the success of UF or FSU. You don't see a lot of "SUNY" t-shirts.

[mainejeff]

It is a fact. Kids love "brand name" universities.

I'm not sure that extends beyond ex-jocks and legacy families. I bet most students choose schools based on academics, location, and reputation. xpeacex

Whoops......almost forgot........AND the amount of financial aid that they can scrounge up!

[DFW HOYA]

The facts remain:
1) New York is a huge state (3rd largest)
2) New York (SUNY) is the largest state university in the country (1st)
3) New York has a huge void of FBS teams (3, Usually only 1 is competitive)
4) Football is America's favorite college sport
5) Albany can compete against 3 NY FBS teams or dozens of NY BBall teams
6) Albany is a large state university and has the profile of a FBS type school (at least on paper)


Yes, but challenges remain:

1. There is no tradition in NY for state school college football. That taks time to build.
2. Albany's $1.6 million football budget is currently comparable to Georgetown and Brown, not Delaware and Richmond. UA needs a $4-5 million budget to make a move.
3. The New York budget situation will severly limit expansion of facilities. If Gov. Patterson wants to tax iPod downloads, expanding University Field is probably not a priority to him.
4. There is not a good home available within I-A for all of Albany sports, not just football. UA must find a new conference before moving up, not the other way around.

Agreed that it's not impossible, but it is going to be difficult.

[redflash2]

St. Francis is in the NEC for the long haul, the pioneer is not even in there sites...