Guess a playoff is not the best way to do things...

[putter]

Mr. Perrin says even a playoff is not the best thing since sliced bread...especially the way some teams get in.

http://www.al.com/sports/birminghamnews/mperrin.ssf?/base/sports/1132049875244570.xml&coll=2

[TexasTerror]

What kind of hat do they draw out of? What do they put the school's names in? Or is it just pieces of paper?

This is very crucial. Who picks it out of the hat? This going to be a televised event on ESPNU or CSTV?

[eaglesrthe1]

Sheese. :rolleyes: Even the NFL has some wacky ways to break the ties when you get way down the list. Theirs is as fair as anyones. What could be more fair than drawing names? No team has an advantage...how much fairer can you get?

[MiloCat]

How can the JSU coach say it's not fair if EIU wins the draw(if there is one), but if EKU goes it's okay?

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

You'd think they'd at least determine who has the highest average scoring differential among conference games...

[*****]

What kind of hat do they draw out of? What do they put the school's names in? Or is it just pieces of paper?

This is very crucial. Who picks it out of the hat? This going to be a televised event on ESPNU or CSTV?We went over this on I-AA WAVES last night. Names get put into blank envelopes and the Commish draws an envelope from the box 15 minutes after the Eastern Kentucky-Tennessee State game. Media will be in attendance.

[PantherMan]

I suggest members of each team should have a large PRS tournament. How awesome would that be??? I can just picture it now... "OOOOHHH YEAAAAH, my rock breaks your scissors!!!! We're going to the playoffs!!!" xazzx xazzx

[grizband]

A playoff system might not be perfect, but it is 100 times better than the BCS. With the BCS, you don't even need to play the games, just use the preseason polls (sorry Alabama and Penn State, we didn't think you'd be good, so you must not be). Of course someone will always get left out, but lower numbers of deserving teams get left out, than in the BCS. Also, losing in the last week doesn't ruin an otherwise great season.

[SoCon48]

You'd think they'd at least determine who has the highest average scoring differential among conference games...


Umm, you'd have a bunch of scores run way the H up vs the bottom feeders.

[AppGuy04]

This isn't a reflection of I-AA as this writer seems to suggest, this is all on the OVC, they should have a better tiebreaking policy

But to be honest, all teams have the same chance of winning, so its really not unfair to anyone

[COLONELSINCE78]

JSU's coach is saying (IF THEIR IS A 3-WAY TIE) that he wouldn't think it was fair if EIU went because about an hour earlier JSU beat them. He thinks if EKU won the draw it would be fair because we beat them. At the same time EIU would be pissed since they kicked our butts.

You see what he is getting at? But as I said on another thread...I think EIU will win :bang:

[AppGuy04]

JSU's coach is saying (IF THEIR IS A 3-WAY TIE) that he wouldn't think it was fair if EIU went because about an hour earlier JSU beat them. He thinks if EKU won the draw it would be fair because we beat them. At the same time EIU would be pissed since they kicked our butts.

You see what he is getting at? But as I said on another thread...I think EIU will win :bang:

They all have the same chance of winning, thats as fair as its gonna come

[COLONELSINCE78]

I agree. I think he is trying to say it would be tough to watch EIU go to the playoffs after his team just got through beating them.

This would nevere happen in the much stronger SoCon, but imagine Appy, Ga Southern and Furman all tied with only one playoff spot. If you had just beaten Ga. Southern and then they got the playoff bid, wouldn't you be a little pissed?

[bandl]

A playoff system might not be perfect, but it is 100 times better than the BCS. With the BCS, you don't even need to play the games, just use the preseason polls (sorry Alabama and Penn State, we didn't think you'd be good, so you must not be). Of course someone will always get left out, but lower numbers of deserving teams get left out, than in the BCS. Also, losing in the last week doesn't ruin an otherwise great season.

Oh man, you hit that right on the nose!!! My girlfriend went to PSU and defends them AND the stupid BCS crap to her death. I keep telling her "PSU is 9-1 and obviously one of the top 8, let alone top 16, I-A teams in the nation. But since they have 1 loss, they have absolutely no chance of even an attempt at the national championship (I don't even tell her that the NCAA doesn't even acknowledge the national championship :eek: ). Wouldn't you like at least a 4 or 8 team playoff for I-A??" She keeps saying "but your schools need the money (a school with 35,000+ students and hundreds of thousands of alumni needs money???)...blah blah...and if they can't go undefeated then they don't deserve the NC...blah blah.."

I guess I could have stopped trying to explain this after the word "girlfriend", huh??? :D

[arkstfan]

Back in 1991 Arkansas State and New Orleans tied for the American South title in basketball. They had split head-to-head (first tie-breaker) and had the same record against each school that finished 3 through 7. The regular season champion was to host the tournament and get a first round bye.

UNO coach Tim Floyd said in advance that he'd be willing to give up home court to get the bye and ASU coach Nelson Catalina said he'd give up the bye to get home court. But rules are apparently rules.

So after our final home game which clinched the tie (UNO had finished the season two days before) UNO's AD and the brother of ASU's AD were in the commissioner's office and the fans at ASU got to listen to the coin flip over the PA system and over the radio network. UNO won. We both got beat in the tournament. :mad:

[arkstfan]

As to the tiebreaker for the OVC. No its not the best way but what are you going to use to break the tie and award someone the auto berth?

The writer is off-course anyway. This isn't a playoff issue this is an issue of three good programs failing to earn their way in by overall play and needing an auto berth to be in.

If Eastern Illinois had beaten Illinois State they would have a strong case for at-large.

If EKU or Jacksonville had started 2-1 instead of 0-3 they probably would have an at-large case as well.

The auto berth cuts two ways. One way to view it is that it is a reward for winning one of the 8 top leagues that participate. The other is that it is a safety net for schools that stumble in non-conference.

[bandl]

As to the tiebreaker for the OVC. No its not the best way but what are you going to use to break the tie and award someone the auto berth?

There are many ways to determine a tie-breaker...a few that come to mind

Best conference record against OTHER teams in conference (besides the teams tied)
Most points scored in conference
Best OOC record

Even something as crappy as 'average margin of victory in the conference' is better than a coin toss. Even something as stupid as 'the most sacks in the 2nd quarter of all games combined'. SOMETHING that is a direct result of play on the field, not a coin toss.

[grizband]

Oh man, you hit that right on the nose!!! My girlfriend went to PSU and defends them AND the stupid BCS crap to her death. I keep telling her "PSU is 9-1 and obviously one of the top 8, let alone top 16, I-A teams in the nation. But since they have 1 loss, they have absolutely no chance of even an attempt at the national championship (I don't even tell her that the NCAA doesn't even acknowledge the national championship :eek: ). Wouldn't you like at least a 4 or 8 team playoff for I-A??" She keeps saying "but your schools need the money (a school with 35,000+ students and hundreds of thousands of alumni needs money???)...blah blah...and if they can't go undefeated then they don't deserve the NC...blah blah.."

I guess I could have stopped trying to explain this after the word "girlfriend", huh??? :D
I am a huge Notre Dame fan. My dad went their, my little brother goes there, all in all I've had 4 or 5 family members attend school there. It pains me to think that they are an overtime and a fumble (if Leinart doesn't fumble out of bounds, ND wins) away from having a shot at a national title. Instead they are 7-2, and have no chance at the title. If you were to take a tournament (hell use the bowl games as tournament games to keep it neutral, I don't care), ND would still have a chance. This has never made sense to me.

[LacesOut]

Oh man, you hit that right on the nose!!! My girlfriend went to PSU and defends them AND the stupid BCS crap to her death. I keep telling her "PSU is 9-1 and obviously one of the top 8, let alone top 16, I-A teams in the nation. But since they have 1 loss, they have absolutely no chance of even an attempt at the national championship (I don't even tell her that the NCAA doesn't even acknowledge the national championship :eek: ). Wouldn't you like at least a 4 or 8 team playoff for I-A??" She keeps saying "but your schools need the money (a school with 35,000+ students and hundreds of thousands of alumni needs money???)...blah blah...and if they can't go undefeated then they don't deserve the NC...blah blah.."

I guess I could have stopped trying to explain this after the word "girlfriend", huh??? :D

Did you try to tell her that JMU and other I-AA really don't make any money during the playoffs??

And that her school, by getting to a BCS bowl, gets about a $10 million dollar frickin' payout????????

[bandl]

Did you try to tell her that JMU and other I-AA really don't make any money during the playoffs??

And that her school, by getting to a BCS bowl, gets about a $10 million dollar frickin' payout????????

I tried to say "it's not about the money...it's about having a chance to actually win a national championship"....but that didn't seem to work.

I seriously should have stopped after "girlfriend"...LOL

[JaxSinfonian]

The big question is, bandl, why are you still dating this girl? She must be a knockout for you to put up with that kind of attitude. :D

I often find myself praising Mike Perrin's columns in the B'ham News, but not this one. What the OVC's tiebreaker system has to do with the fairness of the playoffs is beyond me.

Arkstfan, you hit the nail on the head. A few points in the other direction, and EKU and JSU wouldn't be sweating the OVC Lotto-3 drawing. 11 more points at the right spots in JSU's first three games, and we could be a 9-1 team with wins over a top 10 program and a I-A team. Even with the loss to EKU, I'd have to think we'd be on our way to an at-large playoff bid.

But hey, coulda, shoulda, woulda, right? That and $1.25 will buy you a cup of coffee down at the Waffle House. Just gotta win on Saturday. Twice.

[bandl]

[QUOTE=JaxSinfonian]The big question is, bandl, why are you still dating this girl? She must be a knockout for you to put up with that kind of attitude. :D
[QUOTE]

Because she likes sports! Just this past sunday night she asked me to put the TV on sportscenter so that she could see the stats and highlights from the rest of the day's games!! Sweet, huh??? I cried and then chugged a beer.

[pete4256]

There's a big difference between a 12-0 team from a power conference getting shut out of the championship hunt and a couple of 7-4 teams from an admittedly weak league.

I don't really see what Jax State and EKU would have to whine about. How many 7-4 teams have ever MADE the playoffs? How many have DESERVED to make the playoffs?

[McNeeserocket]

Sheese. :rolleyes: Even the NFL has some wacky ways to break the ties when you get way down the list. Theirs is as fair as anyones. What could be more fair than drawing names? No team has an advantage...how much fairer can you get?

The tie breaker in the Southland used to be that if the tie could not be broken by using head to head calculations then the team who had not been to the playoffs over the longest period of time would get to go. Example: If McNeese and SFA were tied right now and head to head matches did not break the tie, then SFA would go because they haven't been to the playoffs since 1995 and McNeese last went to the playoffs in 2003.

[bandl]

The tie breaker in the Southland used to be that if the tie could not be broken by using head to head calculations then the team who had not been to the playoffs over the longest period of time would get to go. Example: If McNeese and SFA were tied right now and head to head matches did not break the tie, then SFA would go because they haven't been to the playoffs since 1995 and McNeese last went to the playoffs in 2003.

Wow....good example of "What have you done for me lately??? NO PLAYOFFS FOR YOU!!! NEXT IN LINE!!!"

[dbackjon]

If anything, this should be a sign to the OVC to get better, and not be so weak as to be a one-bid conference.

[putter]

[QUOTE=JaxSinfonian]The big question is, bandl, why are you still dating this girl? She must be a knockout for you to put up with that kind of attitude. :D
[QUOTE]

Because she likes sports! Just this past sunday night she asked me to put the TV on sportscenter so that she could see the stats and highlights from the rest of the day's games!! Sweet, huh??? I cried and then chugged a beer.

AND....she can suck a golfball through a gardenhose.. ;) :D -- that was in honor of the Cap'n

[COLONELSINCE78]

I don't really see what Jax State and EKU would have to whine about. How many 7-4 teams have ever MADE the playoffs? How many have DESERVED to make the playoffs?

You won't hear any whining at all from EKU people. We know of a simple solution to make sure this doesn't happen next year (if it happens this year)...win 'um all. Piss on the at-large...if we can't win the weak OVC I am 95% sure we can't beat what would most likely be one of the four seeded teams in the first round.

[lucchesicourt]

Even if the 17th ranked team whines and complains the odds are they would NOT win the national championship anyway. Does anyone know how many teams at the D1AA level, D2, and D3 teams seeded 16 in the playoffs have gone on to win a national championship?

[Sir Sousaphone]

The tie breaker in the Southland used to be that if the tie could not be broken by using head to head calculations then the team who had not been to the playoffs over the longest period of time would get to go. Example: If McNeese and SFA were tied right now and head to head matches did not break the tie, then SFA would go because they haven't been to the playoffs since 1995 and McNeese last went to the playoffs in 2003.


To the best of my knowledge, that rule is still in effect.

In the situation you wrote about, head to head would break the tie, because it's only two teams.

The 'who's been absent from the playoffs the longest' rule only comes into play when 3 SLC teams are tied with 1 conference loss, just like the original poster's story.

This year, it's different, because of the order of tiebreakers.

1-Head to Head (this year, all 3 teams would be 1-1 against the other two)

2-Record vs Fourth Place Team, Fifth, etc (if all 3 teams had only one conference loss, then they'd all be undefeated vs 4th and lower. But this year, TxSt would have lost to Sam Houston St. So they're eliminated. That would leave McNeese and Nicholls, and you go back to step 1 with the two remaining teams. Head to Head would eliminate one of the remaining.)

3-Team that has been absent from playoffs the longest

-g

[arkstfan]

There are many ways to determine a tie-breaker...a few that come to mind

Best conference record against OTHER teams in conference (besides the teams tied)
Most points scored in conference
Best OOC record

Even something as crappy as 'average margin of victory in the conference' is better than a coin toss. Even something as stupid as 'the most sacks in the 2nd quarter of all games combined'. SOMETHING that is a direct result of play on the field, not a coin toss.

Your first suggestion is in there. The three OVC schools (if the three way tie occurs) would all be 5-0 against teams in the conference that aren't in the tie.

The other two suggestions trigger the law of unintended consequences.
EIU is 1-2 in non-conference with the win coming over 0-11 Indiana State. Losses to 7-5 Illinois State and 6-4 BYU.
EKU is 0-3 in non-conference losing by 8 to the first place team in the Southern, 6-4 WKU, and 4-5 NC State.
JSU is 0-3 in non-conference losing to 8-2 Furman, 6-4 Chattanoga, and 4-5 UAB.

EIU gets the berth for having the foresight to schedule the only game against a I-AA with a losing record?

Now as I understand the SEC, they would give the berth to EIU since they are ranked in the ESPN/USA Today poll and the others are not. That makes sense. It is objective and rewards performance.

As to margin of victory, have a hard time imagining college presidents voting in favor of a tie-breaker that rewards running up the score.

[bandl]

Your first suggestion is in there. The three OVC schools (if the three way tie occurs) would all be 5-0 against teams in the conference that aren't in the tie.

The other two suggestions trigger the law of unintended consequences.
EIU is 1-2 in non-conference with the win coming over 0-11 Indiana State. Losses to 7-5 Illinois State and 6-4 BYU.
EKU is 0-3 in non-conference losing by 8 to the first place team in the Southern, 6-4 WKU, and 4-5 NC State.
JSU is 0-3 in non-conference losing to 8-2 Furman, 6-4 Chattanoga, and 4-5 UAB.

EIU gets the berth for having the foresight to schedule the only game against a I-AA with a losing record?

Now as I understand the SEC, they would give the berth to EIU since they are ranked in the ESPN/USA Today poll and the others are not. That makes sense. It is objective and rewards performance.

As to margin of victory, have a hard time imagining college presidents voting in favor of a tie-breaker that rewards running up the score.

How about, which one of the coaches can piss the furthest into the wind??

A coin-flip is *****ing absurd, and I'd be pissed if I was a fan of one of those schools. But I'm not, so.....eh.

There isn't any way to defend a coin-flip. Hell, the NFL has up to 15 tie-breakers, all a result of PLAY ON THE FIELD.

AND I'M DONE! I'm going to drink, have good moshpitting this weekend.

[arkstfan]

How about, which one of the coaches can piss the furthest into the wind??

A coin-flip is *****ing absurd, and I'd be pissed if I was a fan of one of those schools. But I'm not, so.....eh.

There isn't any way to defend a coin-flip. Hell, the NFL has up to 15 tie-breakers, all a result of PLAY ON THE FIELD.

AND I'M DONE! I'm going to drink, have good moshpitting this weekend.

NFL Wildcard tiebreaker (2 teams)
11. Coin toss.
NFL Wilccard tiebreaker (3 teams)
12. Coin toss

Happy moshing!

[TypicalTribe]

A coin-flip is *****ing absurd, and I'd be pissed if I was a fan of one of those schools. But I'm not, so.....eh.


I don't understand this. What's there to be so pissed about?

If you're an EIU fan, you know that if you win you're in. If you lose, you can still win in a coin flip. Pretty good options.

If you're an EKU fan, you realise that even though you lost to the team that's currently leading the conference, you can still win the conference if things break right for you.

If you're a JSU fan, you can play your way into a chance to win the conference.

What if they had a tiebreaker scenario that determined that EIU would win the conference even if they lost the game this weekend, meaning that EKU and JSU essentially had nothing to play for. Would that be better?

In all honesty, these three teams beat up on everyone else in the conference and then essentially did the same to each other. Frankly, it seems to me like a coin flip is about the fairest way to pick a winner.

[MarkCCU]

Paper, Rock, Scissors always gives a definitive victory.

[bandl]

I don't understand this. What's there to be so pissed about?

If you're an EIU fan, you know that if you win you're in. If you lose, you can still win in a coin flip. Pretty good options.

If you're an EKU fan, you realise that even though you lost to the team that's currently leading the conference, you can still win the conference if things break right for you.

If you're a JSU fan, you can play your way into a chance to win the conference.

What if they had a tiebreaker scenario that determined that EIU would win the conference even if they lost the game this weekend, meaning that EKU and JSU essentially had nothing to play for. Would that be better?

In all honesty, these three teams beat up on everyone else in the conference and then essentially did the same to each other. Frankly, it seems to me like a coin flip is about the fairest way to pick a winner.

I'm not. I actually couldn't care less about EKU or those other schools that could be involved in a coin-flip. It's just funny to see everyone defend a scenario, no matter what it is. Add fuel to the fire before I leave for the weekend! Then y'all can duke it out over the whole weekend, and I'll come back on Monday and admire my work!

Not really though...I can't back that up.

[bandl]

NFL Wildcard tiebreaker (2 teams)
11. Coin toss.
NFL Wilccard tiebreaker (3 teams)
12. Coin toss

Happy moshing!

Well done! Good research. I was wrong...sorry! :o

I still think a coin-flip is stupid. But my opinion is wrong...I understand that now!! :rolleyes:

[arkstfan]

I still think a coin-flip is stupid.

It is, it's just that the other options are stupid too and apparently the presidents in the league prefer a possible lotto over rewarding weak non-conference play or rewarding running up the score, or having to figure out who had the most net touchdowns (love that one, if you win many games 9-7 by kicking three FG's you're sunk :p )

[Sir Sousaphone]

I have a simpler idea..

Win all your conference games. Then you won't have to worry about a tiebreaker. :)

[MarkCCU]

I have a simpler idea..

Win all your conference games. Then you won't have to worry about a tiebreaker. :)

You mean THAT'S ALL WE GOTTA DO?! Why'd didn't you say that earlier.

**thick layer of sarcasm**

[skinny_uncle]

I suggest members of each team should have a large PRS tournament. How awesome would that be??? I can just picture it now... "OOOOHHH YEAAAAH, my rock breaks your scissors!!!! We're going to the playoffs!!!" xazzx xazzx
Punt, Pass and Kick would be more appropriate.
:D