Lehigh 2009 Schedule--7 Home Games!

[ngineer]

Here is the Mountain Hawks schedule for next year. I can't remember the last time we had 7 home games. Hopefully the weather will cooperate this year.xnodx

Sept. 5 Central Connecticut State--Home
Sept. 12 Villanova--Away
Sept. 19 Bye
Sept. 26 Princeton--Home

Oct. 3 Harvard--Home
Oct. 10 Georgetown--Home
Oct. 17 Yale--Home
Oct. 24 Bucknell--Away
Oct. 31 Colgate--Away

Nov. 7 Holy Cross--Home
Nov.14 Fordham--Away
Nov. 21 Lafayette--The 145th Meeting--Home

[Seawolf97]

Nice piece of scheduling !

[jlcharles]

Sweet, we get Lehigh two years in a row at home.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Someone from CCSU said the game was at Arute field.

[YaleFootballFan]

Harvard, Yale and Princeton all visit Lehigh in 2009. Talk about a home run for the Mountain Hawks. I don't think any team has ever hosted H-Y-P all in the same season.

[Franks Tanks]

Here is the Mountain Hawks schedule for next year. I can't remember the last time we had 7 home games. Hopefully the weather will cooperate this year.xnodx

Sept. 5 Central Connecticut State--Home
Sept. 12 Villanova--Away
Sept. 19 Bye
Sept. 26 Princeton--Home

Oct. 3 Harvard--Home
Oct. 10 Georgetown--Home
Oct. 17 Yale--Home
Oct. 24 Bucknell--Away
Oct. 31 Colgate--Away

Nov. 7 Holy Cross--Home
Nov.14 Fordham--Away
Nov. 21 Lafayette--The 145th Meeting--Home

Enjoy the 4 home games in 2010

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Enjoy the 4 home games in 2010

Lehigh deffinately won't have 4 home games in 2010. One of the H-Y-P's will make back-2-back trips to Goodman and i wouldn't be surprised if Lehigh buyouts their trip to Drake. Also one of the CCSU poster said the CCSU game is in CT. next year with a return trip to Lehigh scheduled in 2010. Not sure how true that is since Lehigh has never done a home and home with an NEC team.

[Franks Tanks]

Lehigh deffinately won't have 4 home games in 2010. One of the H-Y-P's will make back-2-back trips to Goodman and i wouldn't be surprised if Lehigh buyouts their trip to Drake. Also one of the CCSU poster said the CCSU game is in CT. next year with a return trip to Lehigh scheduled in 2010. Not sure how true that is since Lehigh has never done a home and home with an NEC team.

I was joking. Certainly a scheduling quirk but the Ivies will not stand for a lopsided home-away ratio with a PL team. Detroit Flyer called and he said you are afraid to play Drake again.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I was joking. Certainly a scheduling quirk but the Ivies will not stand for a lopsided home-away ratio with a PL team. Detroit Flyer called and he said you are afraid to play Drake again.

xlolx

That made me laugh a lot! I think DF thinks we're afraid Drake might actually score some points against us.

I have seriously heard conflicting reports about the CCSU game whether it's home or away this year. Away would make sense, because it's a home "Rivalry" year and we already have six home games. However, Lehigh's (IMO) a highly desirable place to play and it's quite possible that Murray Goodman is getting to a point where seven home games can happen. I'm holding off reporting on it until there's an official announcement on either side.

If Lehigh indeed has seven home games, that would be awesome. And CCSU will be a tough out, too, even at home.

[GannonFan]

Here is the Mountain Hawks schedule for next year. I can't remember the last time we had 7 home games. Hopefully the weather will cooperate this year.xnodx

Sept. 5 Central Connecticut State--Home
Sept. 12 Villanova--Away
Sept. 19 Bye
Sept. 26 Princeton--Home

Oct. 3 Harvard--Home
Oct. 10 Georgetown--Home
Oct. 17 Yale--Home
Oct. 24 Bucknell--Away
Oct. 31 Colgate--Away

Nov. 7 Holy Cross--Home
Nov.14 Fordham--Away
Nov. 21 Lafayette--The 145th Meeting--Home

3 straight years of 3 Ivies. xcoffeex

[DFW HOYA]

Lehigh deffinately won't have 4 home games in 2010. One of the H-Y-P's will make back-2-back trips to Goodman and i wouldn't be surprised if Lehigh buyouts their trip to Drake.

Does the PL allow schools to sell their home games within the league, as Dartmouth did for years with Yale?

[appfan2008]

congrats with the seven home games that is pretty sweet

[wideright82]

how did we get you hawkers at home again this year? I was looking forward to making the trip out to Lehigh this year.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Does the PL allow schools to sell their home games within the league, as Dartmouth did for years with Yale?

I don't think so, but I'm not sure. Didn't Lehigh do that once with G'Town and maybe Fordham when both were starting out in the Patriot League?

[Pards Rule]

Holy ***** - Central Conn State! We last played them Sept 12, 1981 - Bill Russo's first game as Lafayette HC...We won 51-0!

[aceinthehole]

xlolx

That made me laugh a lot! I think DF thinks we're afraid Drake might actually score some points against us.

I have seriously heard conflicting reports about the CCSU game whether it's home or away this year. Away would make sense, because it's a home "Rivalry" year and we already have six home games. However, Lehigh's (IMO) a highly desirable place to play and it's quite possible that Murray Goodman is getting to a point where seven home games can happen. I'm holding off reporting on it until there's an official announcement on either side.

If Lehigh indeed has seven home games, that would be awesome. And CCSU will be a tough out, too, even at home.

I'm still hearing the game is at CCSU, but nothing official. So I'm also holding out until I see an official statement.

But it sounds like the game is on! I know CCSU will be looking forward to the challenge. Expect a good game, wherever it is played!

[aceinthehole]

Holy ***** - Central Conn State! We last played them Sept 12, 1981 - Bill Russo's first game as Lafayette HC...We won 51-0!

So did you get a new coach because CCSU won the year before? xconfusedx
9/13/1980 - CCSU 14 @ Lafayette 3

CCSU is 0-1 vs Lehigh
9/29/2001 - CCSU 10 @ Lehigh 58

[ColgateTD]

CCSU beat us a couple years ago, when we had our losing season. Don't take them lightly.

Good luck with Nova. Maybe you can give them some payback for taking us to the woodshed two weeks ago..xbawlingx

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

So did you get a new coach because CCSU won the year before? xconfusedx
9/13/1980 - CCSU 14 @ Lafayette 3

CCSU is 0-1 vs Lehigh
9/29/2001 - CCSU 10 @ Lehigh 58

The last time Lehigh played CCSU the Hawks were at the peak of their powers and the Devils were still gaining traction. I think Lehigh led 51-3 or 51-0 at half and Josh Snyder had about 4 TD receptions and 150 yards in the first half. Next years game will be much closer.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

3 straight years of 3 Ivies. xcoffeex

You can't knock Lehigh's schedule. They play 3 of the 4 best Ivy's. The top Ivy League teams would finish in the top half of every conference except the CAA. They have a top 10 game against 'Nova and a solid opener with CCSU while most schools are either taking a paycheck for a beating or are playing a D2 team. There's a good chance Lehigh will play 3-4 Top 25 teams.

[GateRaider63]

CCSU beat us a couple years ago, when we had our losing season. Don't take them lightly.

Good luck with Nova. Maybe you can give them some payback for taking us to the woodshed two weeks ago..xbawlingx

We actually played CCSU in '05, the year we won the league. They won it 24-22 on a last second field goal.

[Pards Rule]

So did you get a new coach because CCSU won the year before? xconfusedx
9/13/1980 - CCSU 14 @ Lafayette 3

CCSU is 0-1 vs Lehigh
9/29/2001 - CCSU 10 @ Lehigh 58

Dude, that was one of the numerous reasons why Neil Putnam was fired as LC coach after the 80 season. The offense didnt score a TD in six games, um, and we lost to Lehigh at home, 32-0, with the home fans being so bored they took to lobbing snowballs from the leftover snow (from a Wed. night 4 inch dump) into the police contingent ringing the field. Needless to say, when they finally rushed the posts at the end of the game, nightsticks were a flying and heads were a popping!!

[OL FU]

You can't knock Lehigh's schedule. They play 3 of the 4 best Ivy's. The top Ivy League teams would finish in the top half of every conference except the CAA. They have a top 10 game against 'Nova and a solid opener with CCSU while most schools are either taking a paycheck for a beating or are playing a D2 team. There's a good chance Lehigh will play 3-4 Top 25 teams.

I guess that is why Princeton faired so well against The Citadel.


Not to get off subject, but I really don't believe.


On a more positive note, 7 home games. xthumbsupx

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I guess that is why Princeton faired so well against The Citadel.


Not to get off subject, but I really don't believe.


On a more positive note, 7 home games. xthumbsupx

That's why i said 3/4 top Ivy's. Princeton finished 5th in the Ivy for a reason this year. They weren't too good and neither was the Citadel. I'd put Harvard, Yale, Brown and Penn us against every power conferences 2-4th placed teams. Penn finished 3rd in the Ivy League and lost to Villanova 20-14 in OT.

[Go...gate]

Does the PL allow schools to sell their home games within the league, as Dartmouth did for years with Yale and Princeton?


Fixed it for you. Dartmouth played at PU until 1964.

[LehighFan11]

Here is the Mountain Hawks schedule for next year. I can't remember the last time we had 7 home games. Hopefully the weather will cooperate this year.xnodx

Sept. 5 Central Connecticut State--Home
Sept. 12 Villanova--Away
Sept. 19 Bye
Sept. 26 Princeton--Home

Oct. 3 Harvard--Home
Oct. 10 Georgetown--Home
Oct. 17 Yale--Home
Oct. 24 Bucknell--Away
Oct. 31 Colgate--Away

Nov. 7 Holy Cross--Home
Nov.14 Fordham--Away
Nov. 21 Lafayette--The 145th Meeting--Home
Very glad to see 3 home games vs. the Ivies, maybe we can finally win a game or two. Looks like Lehigh might be able to have a nice record until they finish with a death last 4 games.

[LUHawker]

3 straight years of 3 Ivies. xcoffeex

Well maybe if your boys in gold and blue would agree to a home and home, we could change that. xsmiley_wix

[Franks Tanks]

That's why i said 3/4 top Ivy's. Princeton finished 5th in the Ivy for a reason this year. They weren't too good and neither was the Citadel. I'd put Harvard, Yale, Brown and Penn us against every power conferences 2-4th placed teams. Penn finished 3rd in the Ivy League and lost to Villanova 20-14 in OT.

Maybe Harvard and Brown. Penn wasnt too good this year as Lafayette was up 24-0 at the half before we decided to stop playing in the 2nd half.

[YaleFootballFan]

Lehigh deffinately won't have 4 home games in 2010. One of the H-Y-P's will make back-2-back trips to Goodman and i wouldn't be surprised if Lehigh buyouts their trip to Drake.

Yale will be making back-to-back trips to Lehigh, but not in consecutive seasons. Yale is scheduled to visit Goodman in 2009 and again in 2011.

Lehigh is not scheduled to play at Yale anytime in the near future (unfortunately).

[Lehigh74]

It seems to me that Penn hasn't been the same since Coen left to become Lehigh's head coach.

[Franks Tanks]

It seems to me that Penn hasn't been the same since Coen left to become Lehigh's head coach.

Whatever the reason they are quite far from the very good teams they had in the early part of this decade. The UPenn B-ball team is also way down. I believe they have tightened the admission standards for athletes.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Whatever the reason they are quite far from the very good teams they had in the early part of this decade. The UPenn B-ball team is also way down. I believe they have tightened the admission standards for athletes.

I agree. Penn hasn't had the horses they had in the past. Their most recent run started when they got Gavin Hoffman from Northwestern. They also had Marshall Faulk's cousin and that great QB/WR (wr Castle??) combo in '02 and '03 that killed Lehigh. Penn was awesome in the early to mid 90's as well before having a few down years.

Losing Dunphy was a huge loss for their bball program. It might take them a while to get back on track.

[ngineer]

Harvard, Yale and Princeton all visit Lehigh in 2009. Talk about a home run for the Mountain Hawks. I don't think any team has ever hosted H-Y-P all in the same season.

Well, previously, we had back to back road trips to Yale. Nice to get the 'Big Three' at home.xnodx

[ngineer]

Someone from CCSU said the game was at Arute field.

Not from my source, which is well placed..;)

[ngineer]

xlolx

That made me laugh a lot! I think DF thinks we're afraid Drake might actually score some points against us.

I have seriously heard conflicting reports about the CCSU game whether it's home or away this year. Away would make sense, because it's a home "Rivalry" year and we already have six home games. However, Lehigh's (IMO) a highly desirable place to play and it's quite possible that Murray Goodman is getting to a point where seven home games can happen. I'm holding off reporting on it until there's an official announcement on either side.
If Lehigh indeed has seven home games, that would be awesome. And CCSU will be a tough out, too, even at home.

My source is highly reliable...in the jargon of the AP, a "highly placed White Horse souce"..;) :D

[ngineer]

Holy ***** - Central Conn State! We last played them Sept 12, 1981 - Bill Russo's first game as Lafayette HC...We won 51-0!

Oh we steamrolled them in 2001, 58-10, but I dare say CCU is a different caliber team, now.

[OL FU]

That's why i said 3/4 top Ivy's. Princeton finished 5th in the Ivy for a reason this year. They weren't too good and neither was the Citadel. I'd put Harvard, Yale, Brown and Penn us against every power conferences 2-4th placed teams. Penn finished 3rd in the Ivy League and lost to Villanova 20-14 in OT.

xthumbsupx

I need to start a thread on the Ivy League so I can understand why so many think this. I suppose I won't until Harvard, Yale, etc play someone other than a PL team and beat themxthumbsupx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Whatever the reason they are quite far from the very good teams they had in the early part of this decade. The UPenn B-ball team is also way down. I believe they have tightened the admission standards for athletes.

It has also coincided with a drastic increase in the quality of football teams at H/Y/P and the quality of men's basketball at Harvard and Yale...

...which basically started right after they went to a banding system for their AI... which allowed H/Y/P to increase the pool size of Division I athletes...

...and H/Y/P started loosening their purse strings from their huge endowments, meaning more free education...

Coincidence? I don't think Penn thinks so.

[Jackman]

Harvard, Yale and Princeton all visit Lehigh in 2009. Talk about a home run for the Mountain Hawks. I don't think any team has ever hosted H-Y-P all in the same season.
UMass is still waiting to host Harvard for the second time ever. We've played them 22 times, 21 at Harvard.

[danefan]

xthumbsupx

I need to start a thread on the Ivy League so I can understand why so many think this. I suppose I won't until Harvard, Yale, etc play someone other than a PL team and beat themxthumbsupx

I've tried....no one seems to be able to answer the question. They are highly regarded for beating each other and the Patriot teams.....xconfusedx

I'd love for someone to explain it to me as well.

[Franks Tanks]

I've tried....no one seems to be able to answer the question. They are highly regarded for beating each other and the Patriot teams.....xconfusedx

I'd love for someone to explain it to me as well.

It is impossible to compare as they rarely compete againt the rest of the FCS. However just look at the number of Ivy players in the NFL. It is a gauge of the overall talent at the schools.

[danefan]

It is impossible to compare as they rarely compete againt the rest of the FCS. However just look at the number of Ivy players in the NFL. It is a gauge of the overall talent at the schools.

Is it? Look at the number of SWAC and MEAC players in the NFL - Hampton is an NFL machine.

Does that make them strong conferences?

[OL FU]

I've tried....no one seems to be able to answer the question. They are highly regarded for beating each other and the Patriot teams.....xconfusedx

I'd love for someone to explain it to me as well.

I think maybe after the NC is over and I have some time to gather some research information I will try another thread. I would really love to have the conversation all in one thread. I will also approach it as open minded as possible and maybe we can have a nice non-smack discussion that says more than the "IVY isn't that good" and the retort being "Have you seen them play".

xthumbsupx

[Franks Tanks]

Is it? Look at the number of SWAC and MEAC players in the NFL - Hampton is an NFL machine.

Does that make them strong conferences?

No, just indicitive of individual talent on teams. I am not defending the Ivies as some have but some very good teams have come out of the Ivy league. The 04 Harvard teams come to mind right away. Ryan Fitzpatrick of the Bengals, Clinfton Dotson of the Colts. Carl Morris was also an NFL reciever and was on the team the year before. That was a great team that could have competed well againt the rest of FCS. But that cant be said about an Ivy team every year IMO.

[danefan]

I think maybe after the NC is over and I have some time to gather some research information I will try another thread. I would really love to have the conversation all in one thread. I will also approach it as open minded as possible and maybe we can have a nice non-smack discussion that says more than the "IVY isn't that good" and the retort being "Have you seen them play".

xthumbsupx

That's all it will end up being though. What else is there to argue about the Ivy. They dont play anyone to support their high ranking. Their proponents ask if you've seen them play - I say: "Yes multiple times, and I still don't think they are strong teams" and they say..."But they beat [insert Patriot league team here] who lost in a close game to [insert CAA team here]."

[OL FU]

No, just indicitive of individual talent on teams. I am not defending the Ivies as some have but some very good teams have come out of the Ivy league. The 04 Harvard teams come to mind right away. Ryan Fitzpatrick of the Bengals, Clinfton Dotson of the Colts. Carl Morris was also an NFL reciever and was on the team the year before. That was a great team that could have competed well againt the rest of FCS. But that cant be said about an Ivy team every year IMO.

I think the 04 Harvard team was probably that good. xnodx But one year isn't what people typically talk about when then discuss the Ivies competitiveness with the top of FCS football.

[OL FU]

That's all it will end up being though. What else is there to argue about the Ivy. They dont play anyone to support their high ranking. Their proponents ask if you've seen them play - I say: "Yes multiple times, and I still don't think they are strong teams" and they say..."But they beat [insert Patriot league team here] who lost in a close game to [insert CAA team here]."

I think you are correct, but it will be interesting to see if someone can come up with something verifiable reasons to believe it.

And PS, a few years ago I bought it. But as time has passed and my knowledge of FCS football has grown I have become a big time doubter. and as has been said, it is because there is very little comparable data.

[Franks Tanks]

I think the 04 Harvard team was probably that good. xnodx But one year isn't what people typically talk about when then discuss the Ivies competitiveness with the top of FCS football.

I agree. I think in any given year the top few Ivy teams will compete reasonably well with scholarship schools. Note I said reasonably well not win every game or even the majority of games-- just compete with them. Once every so often a truly great team emerges that can compete with virtually anyone. I think that is the situation with the Ivies.

[OL FU]

I agree. I think in any given year the top few Ivy teams will compete reasonably well with scholarship schools. Note I said reasonably well not win every game or even the majority of games-- just compete with them. Once every so often a truly great team emerges that can compete with virtually anyone. I think that is the situation with the Ivies.

I would buy that statement supposing we agree on reasonably well means. Now that I think of it, I am not really sure what it meansxlolx

I don't think most years you would see the an Ivy team sitting in the top third of the CAA, SoCon, Gateway or BSC. Other than, reasonbly well sounds good. xthumbsupx

[Franks Tanks]

I would buy that statement supposing we agree on reasonably well means. Now that I think of it, I am not really sure what it meansxlolx

I don't think most years you would see the an Ivy team sitting in the top third of the CAA, SoCon, Gateway or BSC. Other than, reasonbly well sounds good. xthumbsupx


I agree, and this goes for the PL as well. Take the PL or Ivy champ of an average year. Harvard and Colgate this year, and they will probably be a middle of the pack team in the SoCon, CAA, or Gateway. Every few years we see an exceptional Ivy or Patriot team and they would perhaps make a run at the championship of the above conferences. That is my opinion. I think you can make the same arguement about the conference champs from other conferences as well

[aceinthehole]

I agree, and this goes for the PL as well. Take the PL or Ivy champ of an average year. Harvard and Colgate this year, and they will probably be a middle of the pack team in the SoCon, CAA, or Gateway. Every few years we see an exceptional Ivy or Patriot team and they would perhaps make a run at the championship of the above conferences. That is my opinion. I think you can make the same arguement about the conference champs from other conferences as well

Now, including the NEC. :)

[OL FU]

I agree, and this goes for the PL as well. Take the PL or Ivy champ of an average year. Harvard and Colgate this year, and they will probably be a middle of the pack team in the SoCon, CAA, or Gateway. Every few years we see an exceptional Ivy or Patriot team and they would perhaps make a run at the championship of the above conferences. That is my opinion. I think you can make the same arguement about the conference champs from other conferences as well

Well it looks like we are in agreement.xbowx


Now, where is that Lehigh Football Nation guy and Mr. C.xmadx xlolx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

They are highly regarded for beating each other and the Patriot teams.....xconfusedx.

They are highly regarded since their institutions are the Founding Fathers of the sport, and worldwide they are seen as top five worldwide institutions of higher learning.

They happen to play very, very good football, too, that for the most part goes underreported - largely by the league's own lack of promotion/creativity. The leadership gets more jazzed up making documentaries about the golden years rather than promoting, say, a Harvard/Brown matchup in Week Two that features two great teams.

It's worth mentioning that Penn did take Villanova to overtime this year in their season opener, and this was hardly Penn's strongest team in the past decade. Say that it wasn't the same Villanova team that closed the year, say that they had a different QB start the game - it's still an impressive feat.

As a PL fan, I am constantly frustrated that games against the Ivy League harm us more than help us nationally. Harvard is a perennial Top 25 team, yet if PL teams lose to them it's seen as a sign that the PL is weak. Harvard is a stacked team year in and year out - if not the equal of Villanova, damned close.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I agree, and this goes for the PL as well. Take the PL or Ivy champ of an average year. Harvard and Colgate this year, and they will probably be a middle of the pack team in the SoCon, CAA, or Gateway. Every few years we see an exceptional Ivy or Patriot team and they would perhaps make a run at the championship of the above conferences. That is my opinion. I think you can make the same arguement about the conference champs from other conferences as well

Colgate, absolutely. They struggled against Coastal Carolina, Furman and (ugh) Stony Brook. Harvard, I disagree. I think they would have taken the Gateway this year, and been a near-certain playoff team in the CAA or SoCon.

[OL FU]

Harvard, I disagree. I think they would have taken the Gateway this year, and been a near-certain playoff team in the CAA or SoCon.


And that is what always hangs me up.

Holy Cross - Harvard Stadium 25 - 24
Lafayette - at Easton, Pa. 27 - 13
Lehigh - Harvard Stadium 27-24

Believe me I am not being a smart aleck. But what in those results would convince anyone that is not already convincedxconfusedx

[danefan]

And that is what always hangs me up.

Holy Cross - Harvard Stadium 25 - 24
Lafayette - at Easton, Pa. 27 - 13
Lehigh - Harvard Stadium 27-24

Believe me I am not being a smart aleck. But what in those results would convince anyone that is not already convincedxconfusedx

It ends up being a circular argument .....the Patriot League is strong because it beats Ivy teams....the Ivy is stronng because it beats Patriot teams.....and around and around we go and people somehow buy into it and vote these teams high.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

And that is what always hangs me up.

Holy Cross - Harvard Stadium 25 - 24
Lafayette - at Easton, Pa. 27 - 13
Lehigh - Harvard Stadium 27-24

Believe me I am not being a smart aleck. But what in those results would convince anyone that is not already convincedxconfusedx

You've hit upon a sore point with me.

SIU 23 @ Missouri State 17
SIU 17 @ Illinois State 10, OT

UNI 28 @ Indiana State 0
UNI 34 @ Southern Utah 24

Two playoff participants from the MVFC, with the same sort of "unconvincing" wins that you mention. Four sub-.500 teams with smaller margin of victories than expected - yet Harvard's "wins" are somehow determined to be damning, while nobody questions the strength of both of these MVFC teams.

Solution? Ivies decide to join the rest of the world and play in the playoffs. Then, everyone knows how good they are. xnodx

[OL FU]

It ends up being a circular argument .....the Patriot League is strong because it beats Ivy teams....the Ivy is stronng because it beats Patriot teams.....and around and around we go and people somehow buy into it and vote these teams high.

I thought it was an interesting comment that Colgate couldn't compete in the SoCon or CAA but Harvard could. Yet Colgate beat the three PL teams that Harvard beat by similar scores. The reason we know or think that Colgate couldn't compete is that they lost of a middle of the road SoCon team by 21 and was soundly thrashed by a very good CAA team. The only reason that we don't know the same thing about Harvard is they don't play those teams.xeyebrowx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It ends up being a circular argument .....the Patriot League is weak because it loses to Ivy teams....the Ivy is weak because it loses to Patriot teams.....and around and around we go and people somehow buy into it and keep these teams out of the Top 25.

Fixed it for you. I wasn't aware that there was a problem with voters putting multiple Ivy and Patriot League teams in the Top 25? I'm sure a cursory glance at this year's polls will prove that quickly.

[OL FU]

You've hit upon a sore point with me.

SIU 23 @ Missouri State 17
SIU 17 @ Illinois State 10, OT

UNI 28 @ Indiana State 0
UNI 34 @ Southern Utah 24

Two playoff participants from the MVFC, with the same sort of "unconvincing" wins that you mention. Four sub-.500 teams with smaller margin of victories than expected - yet Harvard's "wins" are somehow determined to be damning, while nobody questions the strength of both of these MVFC teams.

Solution? Ivies decide to join the rest of the world and play in the playoffs. Then, everyone knows how good they are. xnodx

Your solution is a good one:( My comparison of Colgate with Harvard however is more fitting. xnodx

The other problem with your comparison though is that those teams do play other teams. UNI is in the final four after beating a good CAA team. SIU beat UNI. Harvard beat no one. xeyebrowx

[Franks Tanks]

And that is what always hangs me up.

Holy Cross - Harvard Stadium 25 - 24
Lafayette - at Easton, Pa. 27 - 13
Lehigh - Harvard Stadium 27-24

Believe me I am not being a smart aleck. But what in those results would convince anyone that is not already convincedxconfusedx

Lafayette beat Liberty, Liberty beat Elon, and Elon beat Furman. Lafayette would beat Furman. But oh wait Furman beat Colgate and Colgate beat Lafayette. That stuff never works. Unless the top Ivy teams step out and play some CAA and SoCON teams we will never know. Note Princeton was not a top level Ivy team this padt year.

[OL FU]

Lafayette beat Liberty, Liberty beat Elon, and Elon beat Furman. Lafayette would beat Furman. But oh wait Furman beat Colgate and Colgate beat Lafayette. That stuff never works. Unless the top Ivy teams step out and play some CAA and SoCON teams we will never know. Note Princeton was not a top level Ivy team this padt year.

It certainly never works when you compare games in that manner. The transitive propertyxconfusedx I compared three games against the same opponents all with similar results. Certainly an imperfect measurement but not nearly as skewed as yours. The only difference between Colgate and Harvard is Colgate played the SoCon and the CAA and got trashed. Harvard didn't play them.

My point is still the same, except for the occasional year, there is absolutely no reason to believe that the Ivies could compete with the top conferences except that some experts believe they could.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It certainly never works when you compare games in that manner. The transitive propertyxconfusedx I compared three games against the same opponents all with similar results. Certainly an imperfect measurement but not nearly as skewed as yours. The only difference between Colgate and Harvard is Colgate played the SoCon and the CAA and got trashed. Harvard didn't play them.

My point is still the same, except for the occasional year, there is absolutely no reason to believe that the Ivies could compete with the top conferences except that some experts believe they could.

Nor is there any reason to disbelieve it.

As you pointed out, the only solutions are to schedule good local OOC teams (e.g. UNH, UMass, Maine) or participate in the playoffs. I'm in favor of both. xthumbsupx

[Franks Tanks]

It certainly never works when you compare games in that manner. The transitive propertyxconfusedx I compared three games against the same opponents all with similar results. Certainly an imperfect measurement but not nearly as skewed as yours. The only difference between Colgate and Harvard is Colgate played the SoCon and the CAA and got trashed. Harvard didn't play them.

My point is still the same, except for the occasional year, there is absolutely no reason to believe that the Ivies could compete with the top conferences except that some experts believe they could.

Many teams in the top conferences can't compete with the best teams in the top conferences. A Harvard or Brown this year would do very well against the lesser schools in the top conferences and lose to the top schools just as everyone else does.

[OL FU]

You've hit upon a sore point with me.

SIU 23 @ Missouri State 17
SIU 17 @ Illinois State 10, OT

UNI 28 @ Indiana State 0
UNI 34 @ Southern Utah 24

Two playoff participants from the MVFC, with the same sort of "unconvincing" wins that you mention. Four sub-.500 teams with smaller margin of victories than expected - yet Harvard's "wins" are somehow determined to be damning, while nobody questions the strength of both of these MVFC teams.

Solution? Ivies decide to join the rest of the world and play in the playoffs. Then, everyone knows how good they are. xnodx

PS re reading your post, I compared Harvards games against the same opponents as Colgates. I didn't say they were smaller margins of victory than expected. In fact, I would have expected the margins of victory between the champion of the PL and the champion of the Ivy to be about the same. xeyebrowx :D

[OL FU]

Many teams in the top conferences can't compete with the best teams in the top conferences. A Harvard or Brown this year would do very well against the lesser schools in the top conferences and lose to the top schools just as everyone else does.

AS I said before we agree. LFN said Harvard would have been a playoff team if they had been in the SoCon or CAAxsmhx There is no evidence of that.

[OL FU]

Nor is there any reason to disbelieve it.

As you pointed out, the only solutions are to schedule good local OOC teams (e.g. UNH, UMass, Maine) or participate in the playoffs. I'm in favor of both. xthumbsupx

I think there are many reasons not to believe it. I gave you the best comparison (while imperfect) I could think of. Colgate and Harvard mutual opponents gave us basically the same results. Why would I think that Harvard is that much better than Colgate based on the games that were played. Like I said it is not perfect by any stretch but it is better than because I say so.

Let's hope they do schedule some CAA teams. The ability to compare would be helpful for those of us seeking the truthxsmiley_wix

[MDFAN]

Very glad to see 3 home games vs. the Ivies, maybe we can finally win a game or two. Looks like Lehigh might be able to have a nice record until they finish with a death last 4 games.

5

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

5

Bucknell might be improved but they've been dominated by Lehigh the last 10 years. Besides Christy Matthewson is like another home game for Lehigh.

[ngineer]

Bucknell might be improved but they've been dominated by Lehigh the last 10 years. Besides Christy Matthewson is like another home game for Lehigh.

Last three visits to the "Christy": 2003 W 45-9; 2005 W 42-10;
2007 W 38-10...Sounds like an equitable interest to mexnodx

[Seawolf97]

Colgate, absolutely. They struggled against Coastal Carolina, Furman and (ugh) Stony Brook. Harvard, I disagree. I think they would have taken the Gateway this year, and been a near-certain playoff team in the CAA or SoCon.

We crunched Colgate this year , struggle is an understatement. JMU, Richmond, UNH would add 17 more ponts to that score. Just an observation xlolx

[danefan]

We crunched Colgate this year , struggle is an understatement. JMU, Richmond, UNH would add 17 more ponts to that score. Just an observation xlolx

Sorry to bring it up Seawolf97, but yes, SBU (the same team that "crunched" Colgate) got beat by Hofstra by 40.xeekx

[TheValleyRaider]

We crunched Colgate this year , struggle is an understatement. JMU, Richmond, UNH would add 17 more ponts to that score. Just an observation

Well, yeah, that was proven given that's exactly what Nova did to Colgate (well, added only 13, but we're quibbling at this point)

Just be ready Seawolves, you'll get yours in September xcoolx

On another note, mentioning Colgate and Harvard reminds me of an interesting fact. In spite of the fact that Colgate is the Ivy League's most-played non-conference opponent (all-time), the Raiders and Crimson have met all of 9 times.

Our Ivy opponents:
Cornell-91
Brown-56
Princeton-50
Yale-38
Columbia-26
Dartmouth-23
Harvard-9
Penn-8

Interesting how many fewer meeting we've had with the Crimson and Quakers xchinscratchx

[colorless raider]

We crunched Colgate this year , struggle is an understatement. JMU, Richmond, UNH would add 17 more ponts to that score. Just an observation xlolx

Yeah you crunched us when we did not have our #1 tailback and our# one qb played only 8 minutes and misssed the rest of the year.

[Go...gate]

It has also coincided with a drastic increase in the quality of football teams at H/Y/P and the quality of men's basketball at Harvard and Yale...

...which basically started right after they went to a banding system for their AI... which allowed H/Y/P to increase the pool size of Division I athletes...

...and H/Y/P started loosening their purse strings from their huge endowments, meaning more free education...

Coincidence? I don't think Penn thinks so.

You should completely except Princeton from that thesis. Both Men's and Women's BB programs have utterly crashed in the past five years, and Football has had seven losing seasons in the past ten. A mediocre Rutgers Men's team plays at Princeton tonight and I think it will be very rough for the Tigers. The only program that has gotten stronger is Ice Hockey.

[Go...gate]

We crunched Colgate this year, struggle is an understatement. JMU, Richmond, UNH would add 17 more ponts to that score. Just an observation xlolx

Ouch.

[ngineer]

You should completely except Princeton from that thesis. Both Men's and Women's BB programs have utterly crashed in the past five years, and Football has had seven losing seasons in the past ten. A mediocre Rutgers Men's team plays at Princeton tonight and I think it will be very rough for the Tigers. The only program that has gotten stronger is Ice Hockey.

The only other program the Tigers have this is consistently good is lacrosse. They almost dropped wrestling a few years ago, and have struggled mightily to get it rolling again. xsmhx