UT Martin & UTC - All Sports gone?

[jaxstatealum]

I heard on the news this morning that the Gov. of Tennessee has asked a committee to cut all university spending by 15%. The committee is considering eliminating all sports at UT Martin & UTC.

I can't find the article, but they said it ran in the Knoxville Sentinel.

[DFW HOYA]

Not yet, but it's on the table:

"Among options presented at the trustees’ Committee on Effectiveness and Efficiency for the Future meeting Wednesday: Cutting athletics at UT-Martin and UT-Chattanooga, which are subsidized by tax dollars. The state provides about $3.9 million per year for athletics at Martin and about $4.3 million at Chattanooga, officials said. At UT-Knoxville, all athletic programs are covered by the revenue-producing football and basketball programs."

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/dec/04/new-cutbacks-ut-table/

[utcfan]

Local TV station Channel 3 in Chattanooga quoted UTC as stating they are not going to eliminate athletics. UTC will 15% less, but there is a student fee for athletics and other sources of income. DOn't forget, other state universities (Board of Regents Schools) are facing the same cuts--MTSU,ETSU, APSU, TTU, TSU, Memphis, etc...

UTC new the cuts were coming, so we played 2 $$$$ games in football netting $800,000, and we are playing 2 money games (Missouri, ALabama) which should give us $50-60,000 each (maybe more). Lady Vols came to UTC arena (extra $60,000 in ticket sales). $$$$ games on tap for 2009-2010 as well---possibly vs 2 SEC teams in football.

[jaxstatealum]

Here's the link from Channel 9

http://www.newschannel9.com/sports/cut_973723___article.html/athletic_trustees.html

I hope this is a bunch of nothing...

[Cocky]

Wonder if this will affect the coaching search?

[jus10asu]

If that's true, then that's rough for Chattanooga. I mean App can only bring in so much revenue for em.


In all seriousness though I would hate to see schools lose athletics, which seems to me that it would hurt the financial problems for the school more than help.

[appfan2008]

that is a little severe IMO i sure hope the governor can find other ways of cutting money than just straight up eliminating all sports from schools... that just seems stupid...

(I am a sports nut)

[Franks Tanks]

Welcome to the new world. Nearly every state, county, and city is facing severe budget issues due to sharply declining tax revenue. No tax revenue on all those foreclosed properties. Cant collect a state income tax when nobody has a job. Thats business that was taxed heavily just picked up and moved to China. Another conesequence of the 2nd great depression.

[MaroonDoom]

I thought football was already gone. EKU- 19 UTM- 0.

[DX Man]

Local TV station Channel 3 in Chattanooga quoted UTC as stating they are not going to eliminate athletics. UTC will 15% less, but there is a student fee for athletics and other sources of income. DOn't forget, other state universities (Board of Regents Schools) are facing the same cuts--MTSU,ETSU, APSU, TTU, TSU, Memphis, etc...

UTC new the cuts were coming, so we played 2 $$$$ games in football netting $800,000, and we are playing 2 money games (Missouri, ALabama) which should give us $50-60,000 each (maybe more). Lady Vols came to UTC arena (extra $60,000 in ticket sales). $$$$ games on tap for 2009-2010 as well---possibly vs 2 SEC teams in football.

I hope you meant $500,000-$600,000 xconfusedx

[danefan]

Wonder if this will affect the coaching search?

It absolutely will. No coach in their right mind would take a job with the possiblity on the horizon of a program cut.

State schools get screwed because of this. Albany hasn't had a President in over 2 years and the SUNY system has an interim Chancellor and they cannot find qualified applicants now because of the NY budget fiasco. No one wants to be the boss without funding.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It seems really hard to believe that UT Chattanooga and UT Martin would disband all their sports in a college football- and college-basketball-crazy state of Tennessee - especially when UT-Knoxville seems more than willing to put them on their schedules for guarantee games every year (or other year). Not to mention for UT-Chattanooga they have home games with App, Furman, GSU every other year that brings in serious money.

This smacks more and more of political brinksmanship the more I look at it. I mean, are they really going to pull the plug on men's basketball? No way no how. And if they have basketball, they have to have women's sports. And if they have that... they will fall short of the supposed $9 million dollars in savings. This argument seems to fall apart upon cursory review.

[appstate38]

Welcome to the new world. Nearly every state, county, and city is facing severe budget issues due to sharply declining tax revenue. No tax revenue on all those foreclosed properties. Cant collect a state income tax when nobody has a job. Thats business that was taxed heavily just picked up and moved to China. Another conesequence of the 2nd great depression.

A bit premature..... Since we aren't seeing soup lines and unemployment in the 15 to 20% range..... YET

[utcfan]

Missouri and Alabama were/are road basketball games--not football. We got $450,000 from FSU in football this years, and $475,000 from Oklahoma this year--net profit on the two football games was $800,000+

[utcfan]

UTC athletics will lose $60,000 in recruitment and travel funds


http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2008/dec/04/university-tennessee-chattanooga-cuts-500000-opera/?breakingnews

[james_lawfirm]

Welcome to the new world. Nearly every state, county, and city is facing severe budget issues due to sharply declining tax revenue. No tax revenue on all those foreclosed properties. Cant collect a state income tax when nobody has a job. Thats business that was taxed heavily just picked up and moved to China. Another conesequence of the 2nd great depression.

Frank:
You think there are similarities now with 1929? I don't.

The MAIN difference: in 1929, they had all that depression going on with no legal way to drink alcohol. There are some other differences, but I did not want to ruin your rosy outlook with them.

[appfan2008]

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2008/dec/04/university-tennessee-chattanooga-cuts-500000-opera/?breakingnews

that is brutal... two things to say

1) it is hard to improve your programs to make them more viable when you cant recruit

2) that article was depressing and said nothing but cut after cut after cut...

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Maybe it's time for Myles to step in and loosen the stipulations/requirements in order for universities to not have to face this issue.

[Franks Tanks]

Frank:
You think there are similarities now with 1929? I don't.

The MAIN difference: in 1929, they had all that depression going on with no legal way to drink alcohol. There are some other differences, but I did not want to ruin your rosy outlook with them.

Well there are differences of cousre. The First and Second World War started for different reasons but they were both still world wars. Read books like "The Rise and Fall of Nations" it speaks to the decline in the US for several fundamental reasons just as Great Britian and Holland fell from world super power status in past centuries. Basic hypothesis include the lack of manufacturing and producing goods leads to a loss of power etc. Good stuff.

[utcfan]

Boosters are believed to be stepping up to increase HFC pay, OC/DC pay, AC pay, and recruitng budget. This should not have an impact on the coach. He would most likely get a 5-year contract. If they drop football--he gets paid for doing nothing.

[Lionsrking]

Whether they pull the plug or not, the mere mention of dropping athletics has to be a serious detriment to recruiting. If I were the AD or a member of a coaching staff at either school, I would be furious right now, and looking for work elsewhere.

[Biff]

Boosters are believed to be stepping up to increase HFC pay, OC/DC pay, AC pay, and recruitng budget. This should not have an impact on the coach. He would most likely get a 5-year contract. If they drop football--he gets paid for doing nothing.

That's good to hear (as long as we continue to beat you in football). Still very sad to see, but every now and again we should all look at our spending and see if we can improve. This may be good for the UTC program in the long run. Either way as a The Citadel fan and a SoCon Fan I wish the program good luck as they go through the financial pains.

South Carolina is going through the same thing and we are looking for our boosters in The Citadel program to help for both acedemics and athletics.

[Appfan_in_CAAland]

A bit premature..... Since we aren't seeing soup lines and unemployment in the 15 to 20% range..... YET

I was in a soup line at lunch time, I ordered chicken chili....mmmmmm!

[gophoenix]

Well of there are differences of cousre. The First and Second World War started for different reasons but they were both still world wars. Read books like "The Rise and Fall of Nations" it speaks to the decline in the US for several fundamental reasons just as Great Britian and Holland fell from world super power status in past centuries. Basic hypothesis include the lack of manufacturing and producing goods leads to a loss of power etc. Good stuff.

There is more to it than that. You can draw up many similarities to the Roman Empire as well, and that fall (or breakup) is not attributed to nearly the same things as England or Holland.

Plus, I personally think you can look no further than the turn of the 20th century with Woodrow Wilson and followers to see the original causes of the demise that had to do with giving corporations the same rights as citizens, permanent levy of income tax, creation of the IRS, ability to imprison for debts, removal of state representation in federal government, etc.

[utcfan]

There is no real talk of cutting the programs. Giving to the programs was up 30% over the previous year, and a plan to continue increasing giving and more money games in the works.

[Franks Tanks]

There is more to it than that. You can draw up many similarities to the Roman Empire as well, and that fall (or breakup) is not attributed to nearly the same things as England or Holland.

Plus, I personally think you can look no further than the turn of the 20th century with Woodrow Wilson and followers to see the original causes of the demise that had to do with giving corporations the same rights as citizens, permanent levy of income tax, creation of the IRS, ability to imprison for debts, removal of state representation in federal government, etc.


I am sure that is true. This specific book looks more at the economic and power decline of Holland and Great Britian and parallels it to the US. It specifically talks about the decline of the middle class and increased economic polarization as well as the a shift in the economy away from producing goods. It may be portion of the problem but it is a compelling arguement IMO.

[Appfan_in_CAAland]

I personally think you can look no further than the turn of the 20th century with Woodrow Wilson and followers to see the original causes of the demise that had to do with giving corporations the same rights as citizens, permanent levy of income tax, creation of the IRS, ability to imprison for debts, removal of state representation in federal government, etc.

Preach on brother GoPhoenix! Woodrow Wilson was the most vile fascist leader this country has ever seen, and the 16th (income tax) and 17th (direct election of senators) amendments to the Constitution should be repealed immediately.

[DFW HOYA]

Repeal the direct election of senators? xeyebrowx

[Reign of Terrier]

CRAP....Can we keep 9 teams in the Socon for like 5 years? I'm getting tired of this 8 teams one year and 9 years the next stuff is gets old.

[utcfan]

Which team is leaving the SoCon? Not UTC.

In fact I think SoCon is going to expand to 12. Adding Coastal Carolina, Kennesaw State (adding football 2012), and Tennessee Tech.

[Reign of Terrier]

Which team is leaving the SoCon? Not UTC.

In fact I think SoCon is going to expand to 12. Adding Coastal Carolina, Kennesaw State (adding football 2012), and Tennessee Tech.

good, then we can reorganize to North-South and get 5 teams in the playoffs.

[GATA]

Welcome to the new world. Nearly every state, county, and city is facing severe budget issues due to sharply declining tax revenue. No tax revenue on all those foreclosed properties. Cant collect a state income tax when nobody has a job. Thats business that was taxed heavily just picked up and moved to China. Another conesequence of the 2nd great depression.

Let's just start WWIII and it will all work itself out.

[GATA]

good, then we can reorganize to North-South and get 5 teams in the playoffs.

There is not point to having a 12 team league in FCS football unless you're going to play a league title game...which nobody outside of the SWAC does...

[utcfan]

Could just be 12 teams. Play 7 games on a rotating basis. gives teams to schedule an extra $$$ game if needed.

[GSU Eagle]

We can go to 12 football playing schools, play some crazy schedule where each team plays 7 of the 11 other schools, schedule a good many Iona type non-conference games and get 4-5 in the playoffs each year.

Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

[utcfan]

Whatever works!

[Franks Tanks]

Let's just start WWIII and it will all work itself out.

Hey why not. It got us out of the last great depression and set the stage for perhaps the greatest period of wealth in US history. xthumbsupx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Which team is leaving the SoCon? Not UTC.

In fact I think SoCon is going to expand to 12. Adding Coastal Carolina, Kennesaw State (adding football 2012), and Tennessee Tech.

I'm just extremely curious as to the rationale for including Tennessee Tech in this mix on a newly-expanded SoCon. Why? They've not only shown zero inclination to move out of the OVC at all, they also barely support their program as it is. Plus if UT Martin and UTC are suffering due to the State of Tennessee credit crunch, you've got to believe TT is looking over their shoulder, too.

If you'd have said Tennessee State I'd have believed it. They have a huge HBCU-related following, play in a pro stadium and seem to want to be the big-time. But Tech??

[Golden Eagle]

I'm just extremely curious as to the rationale for including Tennessee Tech in this mix on a newly-expanded SoCon. Why? They've not only shown zero inclination to move out of the OVC at all, they also barely support their program as it is. Plus if UT Martin and UTC are suffering due to the State of Tennessee credit crunch, you've got to believe TT is looking over their shoulder, too.

If you'd have said Tennessee State I'd have believed it. They have a huge HBCU-related following, play in a pro stadium and seem to want to be the big-time. But Tech??

For as long as I've been a member of this message board (summer 2003), Tech ALWAYS gets mentioned in these SoCon expansion possibility threads as if they are an obvious choice. I am as mystified by it as you are. There is absolutely no rhyme or reason to it.

[Appfan_in_CAAland]

Repeal the direct election of senators? xeyebrowx

As originally conceived, senators were appointed by the state legislatures while the House was elected by the people. Therefore, the Senate represented the interests of state governments in Washington, while the House represented the interests of the people directly. By removing official state representation in the federal government with the 17th amendment in 1912, the last vestages of state sovereignty were swept away, which greatly expanded federal government power and was essential in order to create the all-powerful nation-state.

[Biff]

As originally conceived, senators were appointed by the state legislatures while the House was elected by the people. Therefore, the Senate represented the interests of state governments in Washington, while the House represented the interests of the people directly. By removing official state representation in the federal government with the 17th amendment in 1912, the last vestages of state sovereignty were swept away, which greatly expanded federal government power and was essential in order to create the all-powerful nation-state.

It is quite surprising how very few people know about this and even more surprising how very few care.

[gophoenix]

I'm just extremely curious as to the rationale for including Tennessee Tech in this mix on a newly-expanded SoCon. Why? They've not only shown zero inclination to move out of the OVC at all, they also barely support their program as it is. Plus if UT Martin and UTC are suffering due to the State of Tennessee credit crunch, you've got to believe TT is looking over their shoulder, too.

If you'd have said Tennessee State I'd have believed it. They have a huge HBCU-related following, play in a pro stadium and seem to want to be the big-time. But Tech??

Because they were an interested party when the Samford addition went down.

I personally think the expansion will be 2 teams only. Georgia State and Coastal Carolina.

[catamount man]

It is quite surprising how very few people know about this and even more surprising how very few care.

The ones that do care though just do not have the clout to usurp the powers that be in federalist Washington. If anything, the 2008 presidential election also shows that the masses will take anything force fed to them as long as a vauge promise is offered. WOW. I got to get back on the politics board. xthumbsupx

[Appfan_in_CAAland]

In fact I think SoCon is going to expand to 12. Adding Coastal Carolina, Kennesaw State (adding football 2012), and Tennessee Tech.

The SoCon already has 12 teams.

[utcfan]

football teams. going for a Big East thing in basketball I guess.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

As originally conceived, senators were appointed by the state legislatures while the House was elected by the people. Therefore, the Senate represented the interests of state governments in Washington, while the House represented the interests of the people directly. By removing official state representation in the federal government with the 17th amendment in 1912, the last vestages of state sovereignty were swept away, which greatly expanded federal government power and was essential in order to create the all-powerful nation-state.

Hate to wallow in this mire, but the appointment of senators "as originally conceived" was resulting in a corrupt system of government. Senatorships sometimes would be left vacant for significant periods of time - sometimes years - when state houses were controlled by different parties. In practice, political machines and millionaires would take over the senateships and occasionally overthrow the will of the American People on important issues that served their own interests.

Direct election of senators did NOT greatly expand federal power - it simply gave the American people the chance to turf out corrupt senators that - practically speaking - were senators-for-life. With a political machine behind them, there was no way to root out corrupt senators. As a matter of fact, it shifted power to the people, not the federal government.

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