Hindsight being 20/20 should Maine have been in the playoffs

[WOCO]

Maine lost to Northern Iowa by 25 in the 1st round. It wasn't a competetive game. Should they have been in the playoffs and how different would the landscape be if another team had been let in? Discuss

[AshevilleApp2]

Keep looking forward.

[BDKJMU]

Maine lost to Northern Iowa by 25 in the 1st round. It wasn't a competetive game. Should they have been in the playoffs and how different would the landscape be if another team had been let in? Discuss

Well, if you wan to play that game, hindsight being 20/20, should Colgate have been in the playoffs? Should the MEAC, Patriot, and OVC have been given or still have AQ status?

[rcny46]

I think if the opponent had been UNI,a game involving any of the other teams then under consideration ( W&M,Liberty,Elon,JSU) would have had the same result.

[WOCO]

Hindsight is 20-20. Keep looking forward.

Those that dont know and learn from their history are doomed to repeat it (i.e. the Selection Committee).

[th0m]

Yes I think they should have been. Maine is not a bad team, they more than held their own vs. JMU. UNI is just a much better team, especially at home I think.

[WOCO]

Well, if you wan to play that game, hindsight being 20/20, should Colgate have been in the playoffs? Should the MEAC, Patriot, and OVC have been given or still have AQ status?

The AQ is fine. Conferences need something to fight for. It makes the level of play rise. It's the At large that is in question.

[Dukie95]

I think if the opponent had been UNI,a game involving any of the other teams then under consideration ( W&M,Liberty,Elon,JSU) would have had the same result.

Yeah, I agree. W&M/JSU would have probably gone to UNI. We know that Elon/Liberty would have gone to JMU.

[KAUMASS]

I think if the opponent had been UNI,a game involving any of the other teams then under consideration ( W&M,Liberty,Elon,JSU) would have had the same result.

Second that post..

[AshevilleApp2]

Those that dont know and learn from their history are doomed to repeat it (i.e. the Selection Committee).

True, but every year you will find a handful of teams who are on the bubble. At some point a choice has to be made, and when it's made you roll with it.

[WOCO]

True, but every year you will find a handful of teams who are on the bubble. At some point a choice has to be made, and when it's made you roll with it.

That is true. But you also have to look at 5 teams from on conference and how it affects every other team in the playoffs. I think that should have been in consideration. Think about it. There were 3 seeded teams and 4 at large teams that JMU couldn't be matched up with forcing and elemination game between contenders in the first round.

[BDKJMU]

The AQ is fine. Conferences need something to fight for. It makes the level of play rise. It's the At large that is in question.

Apparently not with some conferences.

[uni88]

True, but every year you will find a handful of teams who are on the bubble. At some point a choice has to be made, and when it's made you roll with it.

Exactly. Arguments could be made for W&M, Liberty, Elon, or JSU but at some point the committee had to make a decision and they chose Maine. Football is a game of matchups and Maine did not matchup well vs. UNI. Maine could very well have faired much better against a different opponent (one with a less stout rushing defense).

[South Carolina Duke]

Yes I think they should have been. Maine is not a bad team, they more than held their own vs. JMU. UNI is just a much better team, especially at home I think.

Agreed, Maine is not a bad team at all. They battled hard against JMU in a terrible weather. Unfortunately, Wofford has gotten the short end from the slelection committe a few times. The process needs to be addressed.

[yosef1969]

No, Maine should not have been an at-large selection.

[WOCO]

Agreed, Maine is not a bad team at all. They battled hard against JMU in a terrible weather. Unfortunately, Wofford has gotten the short end from the slelection committe a few times. The process needs to be addressed.

Yeah. That 5 team thing made us go to Montana last year and JMU this year. Guess we better get a seed next time and end the argument.

[GannonFan]

Hindsight wouldn't matter in this case - neither Maine, W&M, or Liberty (Elon wouldn't even be considered as they lost decisively to Liberty) would've fared any better. Liberty would've been destroyed by JMU, and W&M would've suffered the same fate playing in the UNIDome. That's why blowing a gasket over the last team into the playoffs is not always worth the time.

[WOCO]

Hindsight wouldn't matter in this case - neither Maine, W&M, or Liberty (Elon wouldn't even be considered as they lost decisively to Liberty) would've fared any better. Liberty would've been destroyed by JMU, and W&M would've suffered the same fate playing in the UNIDome. That's why blowing a gasket over the last team into the playoffs is not always worth the time.

That would be true if every team was seeded and cost wasn't a consideration. I know seeding every team has its drawbacks as well, but I would love to be able to see a home game for wofford in the first round.

[AshevilleApp2]

That is true. But you also have to look at 5 teams from on conference and how it affects every other team in the playoffs. I think that should have been in consideration. Think about it. There were 3 seeded teams and 4 at large teams that JMU couldn't be matched up with forcing and elemination game between contenders in the first round.

Good point, but it seems that William and Mary was the other choice for the 16 spot. That would still leave 5 CAA teams in the playoffs.

[LacesOut]

They were the last team in. What did you really expect?

And soon there will be 20 teams in the tournament........uggghhh. Potential for even more mismatches. Alot more.

[AshevilleApp2]

That would be true if every team was seeded and cost wasn't a consideration. I know seeding every team has its drawbacks as well, but I would love to be able to see a home game for wofford in the first round.[/QUOTE]



I'm afraid that the only way Wofford will get a first round game is if they get seeded. This may be wrong, but I'm under the impression that first round home field for non-seeded team games is largely determined by how much a school is willing to pay the NCAA from it's ticket sales for the game. This leads to advantages for teams like Appalachian and Montana that have large stadiums and high average attendance.

Unfortunately one of the things that make Wofford football so remarkable, a great team from a very small school, make home field difficult in the playoffs.

[UNIFanSince1983]

They were the last team in this year, but last year UNH was the last team in and no one was doubting whether or not they were worthy after their first round defeat...

It really is a year to year basis sort of thing. Some years there are more than enough great teams some years there aren't.

[mcveyrl]

I'm afraid that the only way Wofford will get a first round game is if they get seeded. This may be wrong, but I'm under the impression that first round home field for non-seeded team games is largely determined by how much a school is willing to pay the NCAA from it's ticket sales for the game. This leads to advantages for teams like Appalachian and Montana that have large stadiums and high average attendance.

Unfortunately one of the things that make Wofford football so remarkable, a great team from a very small school, make home field difficult in the playoffs.


It all depends on who they get paired with. They've gotten a raw deal the past two years because they were paired with seeds in the first round and a bid didn't matter. But last year they got a home game in the second round facing Richmond (a school with a similar profile to Wofford's).

Having said that, I'm not sure who (besides Richmond) is close enough and out of conference for Wofford to both a) be paired with and b) outbid, which I guess is your point. SC State was probably their best chance, but even that one would be close, I think.

[GannonFan]

Hindsight wouldn't matter in this case - neither Maine, W&M, or Liberty (Elon wouldn't even be considered as they lost decisively to Liberty) would've fared any better. Liberty would've been destroyed by JMU, and W&M would've suffered the same fate playing in the UNIDome. That's why blowing a gasket over the last team into the playoffs is not always worth the time.

That would be true if every team was seeded and cost wasn't a consideration. I know seeding every team has its drawbacks as well, but I would love to be able to see a home game for wofford in the first round.

Seeding doesn't solve anything. What would you have done when and if Wofford was mysteriously given a #9 seed and went on the road in the first round anyway? That kind of stuff happened all the time and would happen again. Heck, people would be complaining that Maine, seemingly the last team in, could be seeded as high as #12. Seeding is far from the advanced science people try to make it out to be.

[mcveyrl]

[QUOTE=WOCO;1239513]

Seeding doesn't solve anything. What would you have done when and if Wofford was mysteriously given a #9 seed and went on the road in the first round anyway? That kind of stuff happened all the time and would happen again. Heck, people would be complaining that Maine, seemingly the last team in, could be seeded as high as #12. Seeding is far from the advanced science people try to make it out to be.

Talk about blowing a gasket. As soon as somebody's conference champion got seeded 14 or 15...watch out!!

[GannonFan]

[QUOTE=GannonFan;1239538]

Talk about blowing a gasket. As soon as somebody's conference champion got seeded 14 or 15...watch out!!


And why would someone complain about the Patriot or MEAC getting a seed like that? (well, the MEAC did complain back then I think). It wouldn't have been shocking to see Colgate as the #16 seed this year.

[WOCO]

It all depends on who they get paired with. They've gotten a raw deal the past two years because they were paired with seeds in the first round and a bid didn't matter. But last year they got a home game in the second round facing Richmond (a school with a similar profile to Wofford's).

Having said that, I'm not sure who (besides Richmond) is close enough and out of conference for Wofford to both a) be paired with and b) outbid, which I guess is your point. SC State was probably their best chance, but even that one would be close, I think.

Trust me. Wofford makes huge bids. We just get paired with seeds. Remember Mr. Richardson is a bad man. He just wrote a 1 million dollar check to re-do our athletic building so the panthers can have an upgrade.

[appfan2008]

I thought it was obvious before the game that they didnt belong so i dont know what has changed?!

[whitey]

The only way anything changes is if Liberty had gotten in instead of William & Mary. But Liberty with that loss to Presby didn't have good odds. If William & Mary had gotten in instead of Maine it would have been the Tribe (no offense W&M fans xpeacex ) most likely losing at UNI instead. IMO, In both foresight and hindsight it should have been William & Mary instead of Maine. However that still doesn't change things.

[mcveyrl]

[QUOTE=mcveyrl;1239539]


And why would someone complain about the Patriot or MEAC getting a seed like that? (well, the MEAC did complain back then I think). It wouldn't have been shocking to see Colgate as the #16 seed this year.

Me either, but people would do it...

[mcveyrl]

Trust me. Wofford makes huge bids. We just get paired with seeds. Remember Mr. Richardson is a bad man. He just wrote a 1 million dollar check to re-do our athletic building so the panthers can have an upgrade.

I think outbidding Richmond probably speaks to that. They've got some pretty good private money behind them.

[89Hen]

how different would the landscape be if another team had been let in?
No different. xcoffeex

[Grabholdofyosef]

Hindsight wouldn't matter in this case - neither Maine, W&M, or Liberty (Elon wouldn't even be considered as they lost decisively to Liberty) would've fared any better. Liberty would've been destroyed by JMU, and W&M would've suffered the same fate playing in the UNIDome. That's why blowing a gasket over the last team into the playoffs is not always worth the time.
I agree. The final 5 being considered were so close in resume and so far from the other 7 at larges, no matter who was chosen, people would have questioned it.

[South Carolina Duke]

Hindsight wouldn't matter in this case - neither Maine, W&M, or Liberty (Elon wouldn't even be considered as they lost decisively to Liberty) would've fared any better. Liberty would've been destroyed by JMU, and W&M would've suffered the same fate playing in the UNIDome. That's why blowing a gasket over the last team into the playoffs is not always worth the time.

That would be true if every team was seeded and cost wasn't a consideration. I know seeding every team has its drawbacks as well, but I would love to be able to see a home game for wofford in the first round.

Wofford's chance SoCon Champs was last year and the committe botched that selection and anyway..

[Mntneer]

Seeding doesn't solve anything. What would you have done when and if Wofford was mysteriously given a #9 seed and went on the road in the first round anyway? That kind of stuff happened all the time and would happen again. Heck, people would be complaining that Maine, seemingly the last team in, could be seeded as high as #12. Seeding is far from the advanced science people try to make it out to be.

It solves some things. It might not have helped Wofford get a home game in the first round, but it wouldn't have sent them to the #1 seed either. That matchup should not have been possible until at least the 2nd round.

[Cocky]

JSU would have beaten UNI

[GannonFan]

JSU would have beaten UNI

Funny, the OVC winning a playoff game. That's so 1997. :p

[89Hen]

JSU would have beaten UNI
Not sure Jackson State would have matched up well. xwhistlex

[TCisMYhero]

JSU would have beaten UNI

JSU wasn't even in playoff talk. That's about how scary they arexcoffeex .

[Reign of Terrier]

Well, if you wan to play that game, hindsight being 20/20, should Colgate have been in the playoffs? Should the MEAC, Patriot, and OVC have been given or still have AQ status?

I thought Colgate shouldn't of been in the playoffs, they lost by 21 to Furman and Furman wasn't really that good.

[soccerguy315]

I think W&M should've been in instead of Maine...

that said, I think W&M would've had about a 5-10% chance of winning in the dome. W&M had their chance to put themsevles in, and they didn't take it.

[MacThor]

Seriously we are still debating this? We have a great final eight. Whoever the last team in was, we'd still likely have the same 8 teams in contention right now.

[GATA]

Seriously we are still debating this? We have a great final eight. Whoever the last team in was, we'd still likely have the same 8 teams in contention right now.

I agree. the "Elite 8" this year is pretty solid. We should see some classics this weekend.

[aust42]

I think W&M should've been in instead of Maine...

that said, I think W&M would've had about a 5-10% chance of winning in the dome. W&M had their chance to put themsevles in, and they didn't take it.

Maine got whipped just like countless of other "16 seeds" in the past. Doesn't mean they didn't deserve to get into the playoffs. W&M did not deserve to get in with a 7-4 record.

[Appfan_in_CAAland]

No, but I said that before the playoffs too, so is it really "hindsight?"

[soccerguy315]

Maine got whipped just like countless of other "16 seeds" in the past. Doesn't mean they didn't deserve to get into the playoffs. W&M did not deserve to get in with a 7-4 record.

I think W&M's 7-4 was stronger than Maine's 8-4. That said, I don't think W&M belonged in the playoffs. But I think they should've been in before Maine.

It's too bad Elon didn't win the last weekend, because then this wouldn't be an issue at all.

[BDKJMU]

Seriously we are still debating this? We have a great final eight. Whoever the last team in was, we'd still likely have the same 8 teams in contention right now.

Not necessarily true. If it had been W&M, W&M likely would have been sent to UNI, and we'd still have the same 8. But if it had been Liberty, JMU would have been paired with Liberty. Wofford likely would then have been paired with UR. EKU likely would have been paired with SIU. UNH likely would have been paired with UNI. 1-2 of the current 8 wouldn't have been still alive, and you'd have 1-2 teams that lost last week still in it.

[Saint3333]

Yet another reason 16 teams is enough for a playoff system.

[MacThor]

Not necessarily true. If it had been W&M, W&M likely would have been sent to UNI, and we'd still have the same 8. But if it had been Liberty, JMU would have been paired with Liberty. Wofford likely would then have been paired with UR. EKU likely would have been paired with SIU. UNH likely would have been paired with UNI. 1-2 of the current 8 wouldn't have been still alive, and you'd have 1-2 teams that lost last week still in it.

Then by all means, keep xdeadhorsex

We are pretty darn close to having the 8 best teams in the country in the 2nd round. Almost certainly all 8 are in the top 10.

[OL FU]

Seriously we are still debating this? We have a great final eight. Whoever the last team in was, we'd still likely have the same 8 teams in contention right now.

Not necessarily, if Liberty had gotten in they would have went to JMU. Wofford might have taken someone's placexnodx


I haven't read the thread so sorry if I am being repetitive. I realize the argument is to put the best teams in the at large spots. But even with the best evidence that is a subjective decision. So my point is simple. Since the purpose of the playoffs is to determine a national champion why put the fifth best team (which of course might be the sixth best team) in a conference in the playoffs. There are good arguments that JMU, Richmond and Villanova are pretty equal and all have a shot at the NC. But why in the world, go to the fifth best team and therefore proven during the regular season that they aren't that competitive with the very top in the conference. Even though the conference is not as tough and even though they probably would not have faired better, why not go with a team that has at least some argument for being the best in their conference and then let them prove it in the playoffs. (ie Liberty, Tenn Martin, JSU and yes I realize that the last two mentioned did not win their conference but the losses in the conference were close enough as to not clearly reflect a substantial difference in team talent).


And oh by the way, I would have said the same about the Socon if the season would have ended differently there. I also realize that if you stretch my argument to its conclusion that Wofford could have been left out. But, be reasonable, there is a difference in two teams and five from the same conference.

[mcveyrl]

Not necessarily, if Liberty had gotten in they would have went to JMU. Wofford might have taken someone's placexnodx


I haven't read the thread so sorry if I am being repetitive. I realize the argument is to put the best teams in the at large spots. But even with the best evidence that is a subjective decision. So my point is simple. Since the purpose of the playoffs is to determine a national champion why put the fifth best team (which of course might be the sixth best team) in a conference in the playoffs. There are good arguments that JMU, Richmond and Villanova are pretty equal and all have a shot at the NC. But why in the world, go to the fifth best team and therefore proven during the regular season that they aren't that competitive with the very top in the conference. Even though the conference is not as tough and even though they probably would not have faired better, why not go with a team that has at least some argument for being the best in their conference and then let them prove it in the playoffs. (ie Liberty, Tenn Martin, JSU and yes I realize that the last two mentioned did not win their conference but the losses in the conference were close enough as to not clearly reflect a substantial difference in team talent).


And oh by the way, I would have said the same about the Socon if the season would have ended differently there. I also realize that if you stretch my argument to its conclusion that Wofford could have been left out. But, be reasonable, there is a difference in two teams and five from the same conference.

I agree. I always thought Liberty would have been a great choice because of the second paragraph. I think Maine is PROBABLY better than Liberty, but Liberty should've gotten a shot to prove me wrong.

[89Hen]

Not necessarily, if Liberty had gotten in they would have went to JMU. Wofford might have taken someone's placexnodx
You know what, you are correct. I was only looking at it from a would have the next team in line beaten UNI at UNI.

We can only speculate if Wofford would have been sent to UNI if Liberty were chosen instead of Maine. Although the Committee may have also paired WC and SCSt, quite possibly at SCSt. xeyebrowx xnodx

Could have been...

Liberty @ JMU
Colgate @ Villanova

Texas State @ Montana
Weber @ Cal Poly

Richmond @ AppSt
Wofford @ SCSt

EKU @ UNI
UNH @ SIU

xeyebrowx

[BDKJMU]

Then by all means, keep xdeadhorsex

We are pretty darn close to having the 8 best teams in the country in the 2nd round. Almost certainly all 8 are in the top 10.

I pretty much agree with you there. With the last GPI (before the 1st round), we have 8 of the top 10 (only missing #6 Cal Poly and #7 Wofford).

With the last polls out (again before the 1st round) we have 8 of the top 12, only missing #3 Cal Poly, #8/9 Wofford, #8/9 SIU, and playoff ineligible #11 Cent Arkansas (not sure how good they are at 10-2).

[BDKJMU]

You know what, you are correct. I was only looking at it from a would have the next team in line beaten UNI at UNI.

We can only speculate if Wofford would have been sent to UNI if Liberty were chosen instead of Maine. Although the Committee may have also paired WC and SCSt, quite possibly at SCSt. xeyebrowx xnodx

Could have been...

Liberty @ JMU
Colgate @ Villanova

Texas State @ Montana
Weber @ Cal Poly

Richmond @ AppSt
Wofford @ SCSt

EKU @ UNI
UNH @ SIU

xeyebrowx

Negative- ASU as the #2 seed was the 2nd team paired up. They had to be given the CLOSET OOC NON SEED WITHIN 400 MILES if there was one. That was going to be SC State period. Before the pairings came out people kept on saying SC State would/could be paired with Wofford. I kept pointing out was not going to happen. xrulesx

[89Hen]

Negative- ASU as the #2 seed was the 2nd team paired up. They had to be given the CLOSET OOC NON SEED WITHIN 400 MILES if there was one.
xconfusedx And this is written in the NCAA post-season handbook? Was talking about the 400 mile thing. Bottom line is the Committee does what they want. How else can you explain EWU going to #1 McNeese and UNH going to #2 UNI last year when there were teams half the distance of those picks?

[uni88]

Negative- ASU as the #2 seed was the 2nd team paired up. They had to be given the CLOSET OOC NON SEED WITHIN 400 MILES if there was one. That was going to be SC State period. Before the pairings came out people kept on saying SC State would/could be paired with Wofford. I kept pointing out was not going to happen. xrulesx

So you flip them ...
SCSt @ AppSt
Wofford @ Richmond (or vice versa)

[Big Al]

xconfusedx And this is written in the NCAA post-season handbook?

Yes, it is. Getting a seed doesn't mean you'll be paired with the bottom of the bracket -- it just means you get home-field advantage.

[89Hen]

Yes, it is. Getting a seed doesn't mean you'll be paired with the bottom of the bracket -- it just means you get home-field advantage.
I didn't take away home field. xconfusedx

[Big Al]

I didn't take away home field. xconfusedx

Ah. You added to your post after I replied.

Edit:

From the handbook:

The top four teams in the 16-team bracket for the championship will be seeded. Team
pairings will be determined by geographical proximity, with the exception that teams from
the same conference may not be paired in the first round.

I think the committee made those choices last year because it reduced the overall number of plane trips they'd have to play for. Remember, the NCAA covers the travel costs of playoff teams, so they have more of an incentive to keep costs down over scheduling the best pairings. I think last year is a good example because, while UNH was the last team in, they weren't the 16th best team in the field. However, by making UNH travel to UNI and EWU to McNeese, they were able to avoid other, more costly, pairings.

At least, that's how I see it.

[GannonFan]

Not necessarily, if Liberty had gotten in they would have went to JMU. Wofford might have taken someone's placexnodx


I haven't read the thread so sorry if I am being repetitive. I realize the argument is to put the best teams in the at large spots. But even with the best evidence that is a subjective decision. So my point is simple. Since the purpose of the playoffs is to determine a national champion why put the fifth best team (which of course might be the sixth best team) in a conference in the playoffs. There are good arguments that JMU, Richmond and Villanova are pretty equal and all have a shot at the NC. But why in the world, go to the fifth best team and therefore proven during the regular season that they aren't that competitive with the very top in the conference. Even though the conference is not as tough and even though they probably would not have faired better, why not go with a team that has at least some argument for being the best in their conference and then let them prove it in the playoffs. (ie Liberty, Tenn Martin, JSU and yes I realize that the last two mentioned did not win their conference but the losses in the conference were close enough as to not clearly reflect a substantial difference in team talent).


And oh by the way, I would have said the same about the Socon if the season would have ended differently there. I also realize that if you stretch my argument to its conclusion that Wofford could have been left out. But, be reasonable, there is a difference in two teams and five from the same conference.

But, as people like to bring up, the CAA does not have a full round robin competition during the year due to the size of the conference. Maine didn't play nova, one of the 3 who you say are the tops of the conference. And Maine played JMU pretty close, so the idea that Maine wasn't very competitive with the rest of the conference is a bit of an overstatement. It seems you want to penalize teams from larger conferences just for the sake of inclusion of more conferences. And remember, I was a guy who wanted Liberty in as the last team, so I'm hardly a CAA apologist, just pointing out that your argument could, taken to its extreme, leave the playoffs as only accesible to conference champions. Luckily for the sake of the playoffs, we do have at large teams, many of whom aren't conference champs. Heck, 5 of the final 8 teams didn't win their team's autobids, good thing for them we included them!

[BDKJMU]

xconfusedx And this is written in the NCAA post-season handbook? Was talking about the 400 mile thing. Bottom line is the Committee does what they want. How else can you explain EWU going to #1 McNeese and UNH going to #2 UNI last year when there were teams half the distance of those picks?

UNI was #1, not #2.

Because there was no non seed OOC within the limit for bus trips (300 miles last yr, 400 this yr) last year for #1 seed UNI (was #1, not #2 seed) #3 seed McNeese (was the #3 seed not #1). So they had to pick non seed OOCs to fly to UNI and McNeese. And once a team is flying then obviously the mileage doesn't matter.

Which brings us back to for seeded teams, starting with the #1 seed, then #2, then #3, then #4, anytime there is a non seed OOC within the driving limit, they will be paired up. Its pretty simple, and I doubt you could cite a case in in the last several years where a seed had a 1st round opponent fly to them if there was a non seed OOC within the driving limit.

"All pairings will be made by the Division I football championship committee. The
following principles are applied when pairing teams:
1. The teams awarded the top four seeds are placed in the appropriate positions in the
bracket (Nos. 1 and 4 in the upper half, and Nos. 2 and 3 in the lower half), and will
be paired with teams that are in closest geographic proximity;"
Pg 11
http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/champ_handbooks/football/2008/1_football_handbook.pdf

Also refer to Dowd's article:
"Question #6: I read an article about a month ago in the USA Today newspaper that had me very concerned. It was titled “NCAA alters policies to reduce travel costs.” Yes, the economy has hit us too down at the FCS level. In case you want to look it up, it was on page 11C on October 10, 2008. The opening statement in the article is the one that had me the most concerned; “Faced with transportation costs that have spiraled upward at a dizzying rate, the NCAA is taking steps to hold down travel expenses for schools that participate in its championships.”

When I asked John about this he said that the one significant thing that came out of that meeting was the change in mileage that the committee can now consider for bus travel before having to arrange flights, which he said was expanded from 300 miles to 400 miles. The paper had it expanded to 350 miles, but either way it is more miles now which might actually help the committee set up a more fair approach to who plays where."
http://www.championshipsubdivisionnews.com/index.php?blog=5&title=the-caa-today-playoff-facts-review-and-i&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

[Big Al]

Good point about the CAA's size, which makes me wonder why they bother having such a large, disparate conference? It seems to me they would be better served by 2 conferences, each with an AQ for their champ.

As it is, it's possible - though highly unlikely - the CAA could only get one team in the playoffs. Can you imagine the ruckus that would cause?

[GannonFan]

Good point about the CAA's size, which makes me wonder why they bother having such a large, disparate conference? It seems to me they would be better served by 2 conferences, each with an AQ for their champ.

As it is, it's possible - though highly unlikely - the CAA could only get one team in the playoffs. Can you imagine the ruckus that would cause?

We don't mind the size of the conference, we don't mind the lack of a round robin, and the last time the CAA (or Yankee as it was known then) only got one team in the playoffs was almost 20 years ago. If we only got one team in the playoffs it would be for a very good reason, i.e. no one else was worthy. I wouldn't worry about that happening, though, especially since the NCAA was so nice to expand the playoffs for us and hopefully now letting us get 6 or 7 teams in starting in 2010. :p

[89Hen]

I think the committee made those choices last year because it reduced the overall number of plane trips they'd have to play for.
So you're saying they have leeway to do what they see fit. xnodx

[89Hen]

Because there was no non seed OOC within the limit for bus trips (300 miles last yr, 400 this yr) last year for #1 seed UNI (was #1, not #2 seed) #3 seed McNeese (was the #3 seed not #1). So they had to pick non seed OOCs to fly to UNI and McNeese. And once a team is flying then obviously the mileage doesn't matter.
xnonox That's not what the handbook says. This quote from my post is the most important one...

"Bottom line is the Committee does what they want."

[chiapet9]

Yeah. That 5 team thing made us go to Montana last year and JMU this year. Guess we better get a seed next time and end the argument.

After being sent to #4 YSU and then playing APP State at the Rock last year in the first round - we figured getting a seed this year was going to be the best plan.

Maybe things will work out for ya'll next year and you'll get a seed and host your first game.

But then you might have to play one of the best teams in the field in the first round - so just watch out.

[BDKJMU]

xnonox That's not what the handbook says. This quote from my post is the most important one...

"Bottom line is the Committee does what they want."

Flying miles isn't addressed. But what is is the OOC within the driving limit of seeded teams.

No the comittee doesn't just "do what they want".

Here is another example of the geography rules from when JMU was sent to YSU in 06',

"Committee chairman John Hardt, the athletic director at Bucknell, said Sunday the panel has no wiggle room.

"That’s right out of the directives from the NCAA," Hardt said. "We literally get out the atlas. We try to look for geographic matchups, bus trips rather than flights."

Hardt said only three of the playoffs’ eight first-round matchups will require flights. JMU was the closest available opponent for the fourth-seeded Penguins (9-2). Madison expects to bus to Youngstown, which is about 300 miles from Harrisonburg.

Hardt acknowledged that the Youngstown-JMU game pitted two upper-echelon teams early in the tournament and said the NCAA directives to the committee do somewhat handcuff it.

"It really is a two-edged sword," Hardt said. "On the one side of the issue you feel like you’re constrained by the guidelines of the criteria."
http://www.dnronline.com/details.php?AID=7397&CHID=3

[WOCO]

After being sent to #4 YSU and then playing APP State at the Rock last year in the first round - we figured getting a seed this year was going to be the best plan.

Maybe things will work out for ya'll next year and you'll get a seed and host your first game.

But then you might have to play one of the best teams in the field in the first round - so just watch out.

I think that is already the pattern

[89Hen]

Flying miles isn't addressed. But what is is the OOC within the driving limit of seeded teams.

No the comittee doesn't just "do what they want".

Here is another example of the geography rules from when JMU was sent to YSU in 06',

"Committee chairman John Hardt, the athletic director at Bucknell, said Sunday the panel has no wiggle room.

"That’s right out of the directives from the NCAA," Hardt said. "We literally get out the atlas. We try to look for geographic matchups, bus trips rather than flights."
Yes, they do. What you just posted in NO WAY keeps the Committee from not sending the absolute closest team to somebody. Richmond to AppSt is drivable. My bracket meets the requirements in your quotes. xpeacex

[Big Al]

So you're saying they have leeway to do what they see fit. xnodx

Yes and no. The rules pretty clearly state that geographic proximity is the first consideration when making the pairings. What appears to gums things up, however, is the fact that UNI and Montana are seeded teams that aren't near anyone else. So, once you start having to put people on planes, it doesn't really matter where they go. That then gives the committee the leeway to pair as many teams by bus as possible and minimize the amount of plane trips they have to pay for.

You'll notice that while EWU got sent to McNeese, they were still on the same side of the bracket as Montana. UNI and SIU were both on the same side of the bracket both last year and this year. The committee is trying to increase the likelihood of bus trips over plane rides whenever possible.

[mcveyrl]

I think that is already the pattern

I was gonna say, nothing new for the Terriers.

[89Hen]

The committee is trying to increase the likelihood of bus trips over plane rides whenever possible.
Agreed, but my pairings didn't prevent that. xpeacex

[4th and What?]

xconfusedx And this is written in the NCAA post-season handbook? Was talking about the 400 mile thing. Bottom line is the Committee does what they want. How else can you explain EWU going to #2 McNeese and UNH going to #1 UNI last year when there were teams half the distance of those picks?



I don't believe there were any teams within 400 miles of McNeese, though Eastern Illinois was probably within 400 miles of UNI. I wonder why EIU went to the #4 seed, SIU, instead of going to the #1 seed..... I suppose they are closer to the SIU, but I thought they would be assigned to the #1 seed first. To the rulebook!!!!

Start making the phone calls, we may need to replay the 2007 playoffs.

Edit: Wow am I late on this reply. Boss called while I was in the middle of it :)

[BDKJMU]

I don't believe there were any teams within 400 miles of McNeese, though Eastern Illinois was probably within 400 miles of UNI. I wonder why EIU went to the #4 seed, SIU, instead of going to the #1 seed..... I suppose they are closer to the SIU, but I thought they would be assigned to the #1 seed first. To the rulebook!!!!

Start making the phone calls, we may need to replay the 2007 playoffs.

Edit: Wow am I late on this reply. Boss called while I was in the middle of it :)

Driving limit was 300 miles last yr. It only went to 400 this yr.

[89Hen]

Driving limit was 300 miles last yr. It only went to 400 this yr.
There is no limit. It is a guideline at best. xbangx

[OL FU]

So what do you guys think about Maine getting in the playoffsxconfusedx xlolx

[mcveyrl]

There is no limit. It is a guideline at best. xbangx

So the 400 mile limit is a guideline...xconfusedx :p

[OL FU]

There is no limit. It is a guideline at best. xbangx

You are kinda hard to recognize with that big hole in your avatarxconfusedx

[WOCO]

Actually lets make it even more confusing. What if the teams were the same but the limit was still 300 miles for a bus instead of 400 like this year. That would really shake things up.

[jaxstatealum]

Not sure Jackson State would have matched up well. xwhistlex


xlolx xlolx Seriously.... I think this is hillarious....

[89Hen]

You are kinda hard to recognize with that big hole in your avatarxconfusedx
I know (I actually have trouble finding my own posts), but I think I may keep it a while. Jr's winning picture, it IS a Hens game and all four of us are actually in the photo. xnodx xthumbsupx

[OL FU]

I know (I actually have trouble finding my own posts), but I think I may keep it a while. Jr's winning picture, it IS a Hens game and all four of us are actually in the photo. xnodx xthumbsupx

Cool, you look a little more curved than I imaginedxnodx :)

[89Hen]

Actually lets make it even more confusing. What if the teams were the same but the limit was still 300 miles for a bus instead of 400 like this year. That would really shake things up.
Or even more interesting if we used the really old rule that the teams had to be able to ride their bikes to their opponents. xnodx

[Mountain Panther]

Maine is welcome to come back to the Dome in the first round ANYTIME.

[THE HERD]

Well, if you wan to play that game, hindsight being 20/20, should Colgate have been in the playoffs? Should the MEAC, Patriot, and OVC have been given or still have AQ status?

The OVC definitely shouldn't have AQ status. No disrespect meant, but those teams are just not good. I knew the champion of that league would get crushed in the first round. Not that no team in the OVC ever deserves to go to the playoffs, but they shouldn't have AQ status. We played Austin Peay and they didn't even have 100 yds total offense in the entire game! I thnk the score was 40 something to 6 and we weren't even very good this yearxoopsx

[Cocky]

The OVC definitely shouldn't have AQ status. No disrespect meant, but those teams are just not good. I knew the champion of that league would get crushed in the first round. Not that no team in the OVC ever deserves to go to the playoffs, but they shouldn't have AQ status. We played Austin Peay and they didn't even have 100 yds total offense in the entire game! I thnk the score was 40 something to 6 and we weren't even very good this yearxoopsx

And your team has never beaten us so I guess you shouldn't get a AQ in NDSU wins the MVFC? NDSU must be really bad if you have never beaten us and we are in the OVC.

[89Hen]

The OVC definitely shouldn't have AQ status. No disrespect meant, but those teams are just not good. I knew the champion of that league would get crushed in the first round.
You know, you may have summed up part of my original question on the "time to rethink autobids" thread. It wasn't so much that I thought EKU or SCSt were horrible teams, but I would have easily taken a bet halfway through the year that neither the OVC nor MEAC auto would win their respective playoff games this year. Although, I wouldn't have said crushed. xpeacex

[THE HERD]

And your team has never beaten us so I guess you shouldn't get a AQ in NDSU wins the MVFC? NDSU must be really bad if you have never beaten us and we are in the OVC.

When the hell did we ever play you?? Just look at the playoff game scores with the OVC teams..nuff said. Like I said I don't want to start a pissing match here, but if others on here are honest they would agree that the OVC is just not a very good football conference. Where did Peay end up finishing in the conference this year?? Last year I believe they were third. Not saying there has never been a good team to come out of the OVC, but as a whole its just not a very good conference when you start stacking it up against a lot of the other conferences. Maybe in the past it was, but it is not now. Anyway as far as NDSU playing Jackson state, I do not think we have ever played and if we did it was probably forty years ago!

[Big Al]

All legit conferences should have an AQ for their champ -- the schools have earned that much. Now, that isn't the same as saying they will be competive.

Rather, I think the top seeds should always get the lowest seeds in the tourney, because they've earned the right to an easier bracket.

I think the expansion to 20 teams in 2010 will improve the final 16 in the playoffs a great deal.

[THE HERD]

All legit conferences should have an AQ for their champ -- the schools have earned that much. Now, that isn't the same as saying they will be competive.

Rather, I think the top seeds should always get the lowest seeds in the tourney, because they've earned the right to an easier bracket.

I think the expansion to 20 teams in 2010 will improve the final 16 in the playoffs a great deal.

I agree that going to twenty teams will improve the 16 as well. xthumbsupx

[Cocky]

When the hell did we ever play you?? Just look at the playoff game scores with the OVC teams..nuff said. Like I said I don't want to start a pissing match here, but if others on here are honest they would agree that the OVC is just not a very good football conference. Where did Peay end up finishing in the conference this year?? Last year I believe they were third. Not saying there has never been a good team to come out of the OVC, but as a whole its just not a very good conference when you start stacking it up against a lot of the other conferences. Maybe in the past it was, but it is not now. Anyway as far as NDSU playing Jackson state, I do not think we have ever played and if we did it was probably forty years ago!


We have beaten NDSU twice and loss zero. If we are using history as the standard then let's use it on everyone.

[MacThor]

Well, as long as we're stuck in hindsight mode....

Not sure why the thread about this article (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news;_ylt=Arl9aSVuwZvQrYTfGAqLgsI5nYcB?slug=dw-playoff120208&prov=yhoo&type=lgns) got moved to "Other Sports" but I think the system is great and can be applied to FCS.


If only the FCS playoffs were run that way:

AQ's to all conferences
Seeded 1-16
No regionalization

I added AQ's to the NEC and Big South just as the NCAA will do in 2010. I did not, however, expand the field to 20. So there are 6 at-larges, and I seeded and selected according to GPI. New AQ's in: Albany & Liberty. At-Larges out: UNH!! and Maine.


1) JMU
16) Albany

8) UNI
9) Weber St

4) Villanova
13) Colgate

5) Richmond
12) SC State

2) Appalachian St
15) EKU

7) Wofford
10) SIU

3) Montana
14) Texas St

6) Cal Poly
11) Liberty


So, the most glaring omission would be UNH. They are the 9th-ranked GPI team (and were ahead of SIU). I think the case can be made for UR over UNH since UR had the same conference record, higher GPI and a better record against common opponents.

Funny the travel can work out ok (2 matchups are exactly the same, all 3 CAA schools wind up in the same half, Jerry Falwell can afford the plane ride to CA).

I think this looks pretty good....

[Cocky]

The more I think about the last spot, I tend to agree with the Liberty supporters. I don't think Liberty could have beaten the other teams considered but they did win their conference and the other didn't. I also think the conference champs should get the home games.

[chiapet9]

I was gonna say, nothing new for the Terriers.

Nothing new for us either....

[89Hen]

I think the expansion to 20 teams in 2010 will improve the final 16 in the playoffs a great deal.

I agree that going to twenty teams will improve the 16 as well. xthumbsupx
How? Do a bracket adding four teams this year and show me that the 16 left would be any different than what we had. Maybe an Elon would have beaten an EKU, but I think you'll find you end up with basically the same 16. xcoffeex

[BlueHen86]

How? Do a bracket adding four teams this year and show me that the 16 left would be any different than what we had. Maybe an Elon would have beaten an EKU, but I think you'll find you end up with basically the same 16. xcoffeex
I think they have a point, but some people may not like the end result.

Adding 4 more playoff spots may mean auto bids for two more conferences, but it also may mean two more at large bids for the power conferences. The "weaker" auto-bid confernces could eliminate each other in the round of 20 and the additional power conference at large teams could be placed in the round of 16.

For example; they could pair the OVC and MEAC Champs in the round of 20. The end result is that only 1 would make the round of 16 and the other could be replaced by a 6th CAA team - William & Mary.

Note that when the NCAA basketball tourney expanded to 65 teams, the "play-in" game is between the champs of two of the weaker conferences.

[89Hen]

I think they have a point, but some people may not like the end result.

Adding 4 more playoff spots may mean auto bids for two more conferences, but it also may mean two more at large bids for the power conferences. The "weaker" auto-bid confernces could eliminate each other in the round of 20 and the additional power conference at large teams could be placed in the round of 16.

For example; they could pair the OVC and MEAC Champs in the round of 20. The end result is that only 1 would make the round of 16 and the other could be replaced by a 6th CAA team - William & Mary.

Note that when the NCAA basketball tourney expanded to 65 teams, the "play-in" game is between the champs of two of the weaker conferences.
So we end up with another Maine-like team in the 16 instead of EKU. Is that really a stronger 16? xconfusedx

I was being serious when I said draw up the 20 and we'll see what the 16 looks like.

[89Hen]

BTW, what I find funny about the whole CAA hate and 20 team love is that I'd be willing to bet you a cap that when the field goes to 20, you'll see a year with 6 CAA's in the round of 16. Almost ironic. xlolx


Actually, now that I type that... what will the rule be for "first round" games and conference mates? Will only the first week of games be considered "first round"? IOW, if you put a 6th CAA team vs NEC in one of the first week games, would the Committee have to avoid putting their winner against another CAA team?

[OL FU]

BTW, what I find funny about the whole CAA hate and 20 team love is that I'd be willing to bet you a cap that when the field goes to 20, you'll see a year with 6 CAA's in the round of 16. Almost ironic. xlolx

Yeah, but would I ever get the cap:p xlolx

[BlueHen86]

So we end up with another Maine-like team in the 16 instead of EKU. Is that really a stronger 16? xconfusedx

I was being serious when I said draw up the 20 and we'll see what the 16 looks like.
It might be stronger, if you think Maine is better than EKU.

The question, at least for me, is; 'is it relevant?'. I think not, the champion is mostly likely going to come from one of the top 8-10 teams.

[BlueHen86]

BTW, what I find funny about the whole CAA hate and 20 team love is that I'd be willing to bet you a cap that when the field goes to 20, you'll see a year with 6 CAA's in the round of 16. Almost ironic. xlolx

Actually, now that I type that... what will the rule be for "first round" games and conference mates? Will only the first week of games be considered "first round"? IOW, if you put a 6th CAA team vs NEC in one of the first week games, would the Committee have to avoid putting their winner against another CAA team?

I agree.

[OL FU]

Some of us that didn't like the Maine choice aren't talking CAA hate. As hard as it is to admit, the CAA certainly had more strong and worthy teams than any other conference. My point is simply if you are the fifth or sixth best team in a conference and the differences in the fifth or sixth best team from the top group are pretty evident, why not take a chance on a different conference especially when we are are conceding that the results probably would have been the same anyway.



Another point, if the committee is willing to load up the at large bids from one conference, I think it might be time to end the rule of not playing a team from your own conference in the first round especially if the first round game is not a rematch. xnodx

[89Hen]

It might be stronger, if you think Maine is better than EKU.

The question, at least for me, is; 'is it relevant?'. I think not, the champion is mostly likely going to come from one of the top 8-10 teams.
Maine > EKU, but UNI, UM, JMU, ASU, WSU, CP.... > Maine or EKU so what's the difference.

[89Hen]

Another point, if the committee is willing to load up the at large bids from one conference, I think it might be time to end the rule of not playing a team from your own conference in the first round especially if the first round game is not a rematch. xnodx
HOWEVER, they would have to change their whole regionalization thinking. Otherwise you would ALWAYS end up with Weber vs Monana, McNeese vs TxSt, UNH vs UMass.... I know a lot of people wouldn't mind doing away with the regionalization, but that would be a much bigger change than just eliminating the conference rule. xpeacex

[89Hen]

Yeah, but would I ever get the cap:p xlolx
PM your derned address. I lost to you again this year anyway.

[OL FU]

PM your derned address. I lost to you again this year anyway.

Nah, I would rather be able to bitch about itxlolx

[BlueHen86]

Maine > EKU, but UNI, UM, JMU, ASU, WSU, CP.... > Maine or EKU so what's the difference.
I think we agree on this point.

[89Hen]

Nah, I would rather be able to bitch about itxlolx
Nope. I am revoking those priveleges by asking for your address. :)

[uni88]

BTW, what I find funny about the whole CAA hate and 20 team love is that I'd be willing to bet you a cap that when the field goes to 20, you'll see a year with 6 CAA's in the round of 16. Almost ironic. xlolx

Actually, now that I type that... what will the rule be for "first round" games and conference mates? Will only the first week of games be considered "first round"? IOW, if you put a 6th CAA team vs NEC in one of the first week games, would the Committee have to avoid putting their winner against another CAA team?


You're right about the possibility of 6 CAA teams. The 2 additional at-larges will almost always come from the CAA, SoCon, Valley, Big Sky or Southland depending on the year. With potential for 6 teams from one conference they'll need to either consider the first 4 games as the "first round" and/or suspend that rule if there are more than 4 teams from one conference (i.e. the 5th and following teams from a conference may be matched up against a conference mate). It's too cumbersome to try and avoid first round matchups with that many teams.

Back to your original point, I took a shot at how the playoffs would look with 20 teams. I added Albany and Liberty as auto-bids and William & Mary and Elon as at-larges (although arguments could be made for Jacksonville St or another OVC team).

1st Round
Colgate vs. Albany
William & Mary vs. Elon
EKU vs. Liberty
Maine vs. Texas St.

2nd Round
EKU/Liberty @ JMU
Colgate/Albany @ Villanova
Weber St @ Cal Poly
Maine/Texas St @ Montana
SCSU @ App St
Wofford @ Richmond
UNH @ SIU
William & Mary/Elon @ UNI

I matched the 1st round winners against the seeds when appropriate (subjective decision) and tried to keep the brackets as close to how they really turned out as possible (with the exception of EKU/JMU and Wofford/Richmond because I don't understand why that didn't happen in the first place).

Note: results probably wouldn't be that different from what we have today.

[89Hen]

2nd Round
EKU/Liberty @ JMU
Colgate/Albany @ Villanova
Weber St @ Cal Poly
Maine/Texas St @ Montana
SCSU @ App St
Wofford @ Richmond
UNH @ SIU
William & Mary/Elon @ UNI
So in your bracket, there wouldn't really be any gain in final 16 strength.

EKU/Liberty @ JMU (JMU gets easier game)
Colgate/Albany @ Villanova (Villanova gets same game)
Weber St @ Cal Poly (no change)
Maine/Texas St @ Montana (UM gets same game)
SCSU @ App St (no change)
Wofford @ Richmond (Richmond gets harder game)
UNH @ SIU (no change)
William & Mary/Elon @ UNI (honestly don't know who wins first round)

Net effect = 0

[OL FU]

Nope. I am revoking those priveleges by asking for your address. :)

The simple acknowledgement that not only is Furman 2-0 against the Blue Hens but OL FU is also 2-0 against 89hen will be sufficientxwhistlex

[89Hen]

The simple acknowledgement that not only is Furman 2-0 against the Blue Hens but OL FU is also 2-0 against 89hen will be sufficientxwhistlex
Keep bitching. xmadx

[OL FU]

Keep bitching. xmadx

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx


Coolxthumbsupx

[aceinthehole]

So in your bracket, there wouldn't really be any gain in final 16 strength.

EKU/Liberty @ JMU (JMU gets easier game)
Colgate/Albany @ Villanova (Villanova gets same game)
Weber St @ Cal Poly (no change)
Maine/Texas St @ Montana (UM gets same game)
SCSU @ App St (no change)
Wofford @ Richmond (Richmond gets harder game)
UNH @ SIU (no change)
William & Mary/Elon @ UNI (honestly don't know who wins first round)

Net effect = 0

Which is why I've been saying all along the 20-team bracket will work fine and have little effect on the final outcome, while providing equal access to all conferences.

Personally, I can't wait!

[MacThor]

Here's your 2008 twenty-team bracket, seeded 1-20 according to GPI, no regionalization:

1) JMU (AQ)
16) SCSU (AQ)
17) Colgate (AQ)

8) UNI
9) UNH

4) Villanova
13) Maine
20) Albany (AQ)

5) Richmond
12) W&M

2) Appalachian St (AQ)
15) Liberty (AQ)
18) Texas St (AQ)

7) Wofford
10) Weber St (AQ)

3) Montana
14) Elon
19) EKU (AQ)

6) Cal Poly
11) SIU (AQ)

Last team in: Elon. Last team out: UMass. Scrap the "rematch" rule and you wind up with 4 CAA teams in one quarter, all 6 CAA in one half. All 3 SoCon in the other half.

[89Hen]

Which is why I've been saying all along the 20-team bracket will work fine and have little effect on the final outcome, while providing equal access to all conferences.

Personally, I can't wait!
If I were in the NEC, I'm sure I'd feel the same way. Personally, I think they should have come up with a way to rotate the 8 autos and keep the field at 16. For me, the damning portion of your statement is "have little effect on the final outcome". If it has little effect, why extend the season by another week?

[uni88]

So in your bracket, there wouldn't really be any gain in final 16 strength.

EKU/Liberty @ JMU (JMU gets easier game)
Colgate/Albany @ Villanova (Villanova gets same game)
Weber St @ Cal Poly (no change)
Maine/Texas St @ Montana (UM gets same game)
SCSU @ App St (no change)
Wofford @ Richmond (Richmond gets harder game)
UNH @ SIU (no change)
William & Mary/Elon @ UNI (honestly don't know who wins first round)

Net effect = 0

You are correct about the net effect = 0 in terms of which teams will likely advance to the final 8 but I also understand OLFU's point:


... if you are the fifth or sixth best team in a conference and the differences in the fifth or sixth best team from the top group are pretty evident, why not take a chance on a different conference especially when we are are conceding that the results probably would have been the same anyway.

Just as there is something to be said for putting the best 16 teams in the playoffs (which we don't do with the autobids) and letting them battle for the championship there is also something to be said for giving some of the conferences that are considerably less likely to win a playoff game (much less advance to the NC) a chance to participate. I think it could help to engergize their fans and hopefully build their program. For this reason, I would have preferred Liberty to Maine this year, not because they were better but because they would have added a little spice to the mix.

I wasn't a big proponent of expanding the playoffs but what is done is done. The thought of offering an at-large to a 7-4 team that finished in the middle of a FCS "power" conference doesn't excite me. Albany's record against teams from "power" conferences doesn't give me a lot of faith that they could advance but maybe the possibility of being in the playoffs might help them build their program. That's why I'm willing to give the expansion a shot. More good teams and more fans should be good for FCS.

[danefan]

Just as there is something to be said for putting the best 16 teams in the playoffs (which we don't do with the autobids) and letting them battle for the championship there is also something to be said for giving some of the conferences that are considerably less likely to win a playoff game (much less advance to the NC) a chance to participate. I think it could help to engergize their fans and hopefully build their program. For this reason, I would have preferred Liberty to Maine this year, not because they were better but because they would have added a little spice to the mix.

I wasn't a big proponent of expanding the playoffs but what is done is done. The thought of offering an at-large to a 7-4 team that finished in the middle of a FCS "power" conference doesn't excite me. Albany's record against teams from "power" conferences doesn't give me a lot of faith that they could advance but maybe the possibility of being in the playoffs might help them build their program. That's why I'm willing to give the expansion a shot. More good teams and more fans should be good for FCS.

Exactly. No one is saying that the NEC champion is going to win the National Championship in 2010. But, its about building a program and a league. There is no way you can do that without getting a spot at the table. And sure there's the AQ route, but that speculation doesn't energize the average fans. Albany fans want to know if they win the conference they will be in the playoffs. Control your own destiny. Its what makes mid-major basketball so great.

[89Hen]

there is also something to be said for giving some of the conferences that are considerably less likely to win a playoff game (much less advance to the NC) a chance to participate. I think it could help to engergize their fans and hopefully build their program.
That's where I keep getting stuck. AFAIK, the OVC and MEAC have had bids ever since the field went to 16. Yet here we are with current first round losing streaks over 10 and I don't see any more excitement in either conference today over 15 years ago. I'm not saying there isn't excitement, just that there's no more. How many years do you have to go before you say, "You know what? Giving them auto access hasn't done a thing for the conference."? xpeacex

[89Hen]

More good teams and more fans should be good for FCS.
I do like the more fans aspect, but I think we've already showed it won't be more good teams... it will actually be more mediocre teams. :(

[OL FU]

That's where I keep getting stuck. AFAIK, the OVC and MEAC have had bids ever since the field went to 16. Yet here we are with current first round losing streaks over 10 and I don't see any more excitement in either conference today over 15 years ago. I'm not saying there isn't excitement, just that there's no more. How many years do you have to go before you say, "You know what? Giving them auto access hasn't done a thing for the conference."? xpeacex

The other way to look at is is what would happen if you took it away. I don't know about the OVC but I would imagine the interest in a SWAC MEAC playoff would grow basically eliminating one more conference from the playoffs.

[89Hen]

The other way to look at is is what would happen if you took it away. I don't know about the OVC but I would imagine the interest in a SWAC MEAC playoff would grow basically eliminating one more conference from the playoffs.
Wow is this going to not be met well.... if I'm the MEAC, I'm not sure why I wouldn't leave the playoffs and have several SWAC/MEAC games to end the season. xeyebrowx

[OL FU]

Wow is this going to not be met well.... if I'm the MEAC, I'm not sure why I wouldn't leave the playoffs and have several SWAC/MEAC games to end the season. xeyebrowx

I think we got our lines of communication crossed. I was thinking more about what is good for FCS than what the MEAC wants. and it is not good for FCS to have another conference thumb its nose at the playoffs.


I don't think all of the MEAC would want that. SC State in particular seems more interested in competing on a national level

[89Hen]

it is not good for FCS to have another conference thumb its nose at the playoffs.
No, we're still on the same page. I agree that we should want all the conferences to want to play.

[luflame15]

I think Liberty could of hanged with UNI for a whole game but tough to tell.

[WOCO]

I think Liberty could of hanged with UNI for a whole game but tough to tell.

Dont know but this may have been a good year to find out. There was a strong point made earlier. If you know a team is 5th in its conference, and the playoffs are designed to find the best team in the nation, why not put liberty in and find out if they are the best? You already know that there are 4 beter than that 5th team in a conference.

[nmatsen]

I have never looked at it like that, I 100% agree with you.