Seeds IF...

[nmatsen]

I have admittidly (sp?) been bashing on Cal Poly and saying that if they lose big to Wisc they are a bubble team, several people here emotionally disagree with me so I will try to earn some brownie points with them here.

If, IF IF IF, Poly goes into Madison this weekend and pulls the upset, what seed do they get? I think they would jump App State (oh my god the world is going to end someone suggested there might be a better team than app state) and get the two seed, but I think they would deserve the one.

[DSUrocks07]

I have admittidly (sp?) been bashing on Cal Poly and saying that if they lose big to Wisc they are a bubble team, several people here emotionally disagree with me so I will try to earn some brownie points with them here.

If, IF IF IF, Poly goes into Madison this weekend and pulls the upset, what seed do they get? I think they would jump App State (oh my god the world is going to end someone suggested there might be a better team than app state) and get the two seed, but I think they would deserve the one.

For what? Beating a .500 team from the overrated Big Ten conference? xeyebrowx

I'm sure Montana would have something to say about this. xwhistlex

[PurpleandGold]

Having just reviewed Cal Poly's record, I'd have to say that the way they're blowing folks out, in most years, they would deserve the one seed with a win over Wisconsin. However, this is not most years. This year they have to contend with a JMU team that has no FCS losses and has beaten teams currently ranked 2, 6, 7, 14, and 15. That's pretty impressive, and I think more impressive than one FCS loss and wins over teams currently ranked 25. Even with two FBS wins, that's 3 quality wins to JMU's 5.

They may have an argument for taking the two seed, but that's debatable.

[appfan2008]

if cal poly beats wisconsin they get the 4 seed behind montana... you cant have them jump montana bc montana beat them... they are in if they lose though...

[Native]

Having just reviewed Cal Poly's record, I'd have to say that the way they're blowing folks out, in most years, they would deserve the one seed with a win over Wisconsin. However, this is not most years. This year they have to contend with a JMU team that has no FCS losses and has beaten teams currently ranked 2, 6, 7, 14, and 15. That's pretty impressive, and I think more impressive than one FCS loss and wins over teams currently ranked 25. Even with two FBS wins, that's 3 quality wins to JMU's 5.

They may have an argument for taking the two seed, but that's debatable.

If it were me, I would give the #2 seed to Cal Poly if they win out. P&G's analysis is pretty good.

[placidlakegriz]

I have admittidly (sp?) been bashing on Cal Poly and saying that if they lose big to Wisc they are a bubble team, several people here emotionally disagree with me so I will try to earn some brownie points with them here.

If, IF IF IF, Poly goes into Madison this weekend and pulls the upset, what seed do they get? I think they would jump App State (oh my god the world is going to end someone suggested there might be a better team than app state) and get the two seed, but I think they would deserve the one.

So if they win this weekend they are a 1st or 2nd seed and if they lose, they're on the bubble getting in???? Doesn't make much sense.

[Native]

So if they win this weekend they are a 1st or 2nd seed and if they lose, they're on the bubble getting in???? Doesn't make much sense.

Not many serious analysts are putting Cal Poly on the bubble for getting in - it takes a dose of willful homersim to do so.

[19Duke97]

If CP wins this weekend, they jump to the 4th spot, they should not get a 1 or 2 based on the body of work App and JMU have produced compared against theirs. Whether Weber or Montana get's that 3 seed is debatable considering their head to head result. CP is in regardless of a loss to Wisconsin.

[Tribe4SF]

When comparing Weber and Montana, the committee will land squarely on the head-to-head result. 8-0 FCS versus 10-1 FCS, and from the same conference. Cal Poly win looks good for Montana, but there's no way around the head-to-head.

[ChickenMan]

if cal poly beats wisconsin they get the 4 seed behind montana... you cant have them jump montana bc montana beat them... they are in if they lose though...

by the same logic.. how does Montana jump Weber

[Appattk]

I have admittidly (sp?) been bashing on Cal Poly and saying that if they lose big to Wisc they are a bubble team, several people here emotionally disagree with me so I will try to earn some brownie points with them here.

If, IF IF IF, Poly goes into Madison this weekend and pulls the upset, what seed do they get? I think they would jump App State (oh my god the world is going to end someone suggested there might be a better team than app state) and get the two seed, but I think they would deserve the one.

If they beat Wisconsin I'd say they'll receive the 3 seed. There will probably be discussion about jumping ASU for the 2 seed, but in the end it would work out in the playoffs (thank God for our system!). ASU would play Cal-Poly in order to get to Chatty...

So, in terms of geographics... Cal would get 3... Which might even steal a seed away from Montana or Weber....

[JMU Newbill]

I think theres a lot to be said if CP can beat Wisconsin. JMU is #1, but we lost to a crappy FBS Duke team to start off the season. If CP gets the job done twice in FBS, regardless of who it is, and has the FCS record to go with it, I think its hard not to give them the #3 seed. I don't see them leap frogging ASU or JMU though based on the fact that you are looking at the last 4 national champions, where the only FCS loss for either team this year is in a game between each other. There's no room for moving ahead of either one unless you beat them.

[Green26]

Montana could be seeded over Weber because:

Montana has played a tougher schedule and has 2 more D-I wins.

Montana has beaten highly regarded Cal Poly.

Montana has also beaten all of the Big Sky teams by more than Weber has, except for ISU.

Montana has given up only 10.33 points per game in the last 6 games (after the Weber loss).

Weber played two lowly rated sub-I-AA teams, and Montana played one highly regarded sub-I-AA team.

Montana has beaten non-conference I-AA teams (Cal Poly, Davis and So. Utah). Weber did not play any non-conference I-AA team.

While Weber's losses to Hawaii and Utah should not be counted against them, I don't think I-A losses can or should be counted in favor of them.

While head-to-head competiton is important, the head of the playoff selection committee said in an interview that strength of schedule and other factors are also important.

On the other hand, both Weber and Montana have tough games this weekend, and those games could make this discussion a moot point.

[DB_Atlantic10]

Montana could be seeded over Weber because:

Montana has played a tougher schedule and has 2 more D-I wins.

Montana has beaten highly regarded Cal Poly.

Montana has also beaten all of the Big Sky teams by more than Weber has, except for ISU.

Montana has given up only 10.33 points per game in the last 6 games (after the Weber loss).

Weber played two lowly rated sub-I-AA teams, and Montana played one highly regarded sub-I-AA team.

Montana has beaten non-conference I-AA teams (Cal Poly, Davis and So. Utah). Weber did not play any non-conference I-AA team.

While Weber's losses to Hawaii and Utah should not be counted against them, I don't think I-A losses can or should be counted in favor of them.

While head-to-head competiton is important, the head of the playoff selection committee said in an interview that strength of schedule and other factors are also important.

On the other hand, both Weber and Montana have tough games this weekend, and those games could make this discussion a moot point. Villanova has no Sub FCS wins....where do they fall in this argument.....

[nwFL Griz]

Villanova has no Sub FCS wins....where do they fall in this argument.....

Unless UM or Weber lose, I don't think they do fall in this argument. Granted Nova has no sub-FCS wins, but their two OOC wins are against Lehigh and Penn (a combined 9-10, and the Ivy and Patriot leagues just aren't up there competition wise.) And regardless, Nova still has two losses...just like Weber. However Weber's were both to FBS teams, Nova's were not. Combine that with UM's only loss being to Weber, and I just can't see Nova as a seed, unless one of the two loses on Saturday. Just my opinion.

[Dukie95]

Unless UM or Weber lose, I don't think they do fall in this argument. Granted Nova has no sub-FCS wins, but their two OOC wins are against Lehigh and Penn (a combined 9-10, and the Ivy and Patriot leagues just aren't up there competition wise.) And regardless, Nova still has two losses...just like Weber. However Weber's were both to FBS teams, Nova's were not. Combine that with UM's only loss being to Weber, and I just can't see Nova as a seed, unless one of the two loses on Saturday. Just my opinion.

Nova has one FBS loss and a JMU loss, just like App St.

[Touchdown Yosef]

Your argument for Cal Poly is certainly well founded but it will not happen. Should it be considered? Certainly, but Charlie Cobb (App's AD) will be representing the Socon in Indy and he will walk out of there with a 2 seed for App end of discussion. The NCAA will also want the possibility of home games at the rock w/ 30k in ticket sales and a possibly packed house in Chatty. Sometimes politics suck but in this case it will work in our favor regardless how much CP may or may not deserve a 2 seed.

I am rooting for CP this wknd and I hope they take the 3 seed simply b/c i think it would be a great semi finals match up in Boone. Good luck this weekend in Wisconsin!

[Silenoz]

For what? Beating a .500 team from the overrated Big Ten conference? xeyebrowx

I'm sure Montana would have something to say about this. xwhistlex

How many times has that happened in FCS/I-AA history?

[PurpleandGold]

Nova has one FBS loss and a JMU loss, just like App St.

And they've beaten the current 7, 11, and 15 teams and came closer to beating the #1 than App State did. And they didn't play any sub-DIs.

[Black Saturday]

I have admittidly (sp?) been bashing on Cal Poly and saying that if they lose big to Wisc they are a bubble team, several people here emotionally disagree with me so I will try to earn some brownie points with them here.

If, IF IF IF, Poly goes into Madison this weekend and pulls the upset, what seed do they get? I think they would jump App State (oh my god the world is going to end someone suggested there might be a better team than app state) and get the two seed, but I think they would deserve the one.

Why? APP beat Michigan last year and was an at large team. What's CPs average attendance to its games? Plus CP is isolataed on the map.

[Poly Pigskin]

Why? APP beat Michigan last year and was an at large team. What's CPs average attendance to its games? Plus CP is isolataed on the map.

You also lost to FCS teams after beating Michigan; we would be closing the season with the FBS win, and our only loss being in week 2. Can't compare them straight up.

Not that it really matters since I don't think we'll come close to winning, but I think we would deserve at least the #2 seed. Why bring up attendance and geography when supposedly that doesn't affect seeding?

[SLOSTYLE]

Why? APP beat Michigan last year and was an at large team. What's CPs average attendance to its games? Plus CP is isolataed on the map.

poly averages about 10,750 or so to their games, (capacity is supposedly 11,075, but far more people have been fit in the stadium, i.e. ucsb-poly soccer game) and their facility is really pretty top notch. and as far as being isolated, theyre going to have to fly anywhere in the playoffs or vice versa, so they should be treated differently than other teams when it comes to that, in my opinion

[Touchdown Yosef]

You also lost to FCS teams after beating Michigan; we would be closing the season with the FBS win, and our only loss being in week 2. Can't compare them straight up.

Not that it really matters since I don't think we'll come close to winning, but I think we would deserve at least the #2 seed. Why bring up attendance and geography when supposedly that doesn't affect seeding?

I hear you bud but simple politics will leave you with at best a 3 seed maybe even a 4 seed. (see my previous post)

[ChickenMan]

Unless UM or Weber lose, I don't think they do fall in this argument. Granted Nova has no sub-FCS wins, but their two OOC wins are against Lehigh and Penn (a combined 9-10, and the Ivy and Patriot leagues just aren't up there competition wise.) And regardless, Nova still has two losses...just like Weber. However Weber's were both to FBS teams, Nova's were not. Combine that with UM's only loss being to Weber, and I just can't see Nova as a seed, unless one of the two loses on Saturday. Just my opinion.


Weber has wins over Montana Western and Dixie St.. neither near the class of Penn or Lehigh

Montana has a win over Central Washington


Villanova's wins over Penn and Lehigh top Weber's and Montana's wins by a country mile.... xnonox

[Poly Pigskin]

I hear you bud but simple politics will leave you with at best a 3 seed maybe even a 4 seed. (see my previous post)

I know, I was just trying to get someone to admit that East Coast Bias exists. I supposed that would fall into the category of "politics." ;)

I can't imagine it's that much more difficult to travel to SLO as opposed to Boone, but obviously the larger attendance, App's playoff history, etc, would probably sway the seeding to your favor. We'd just have to hope the western reps would be lobbying as hard for us as your AD will for you.

[ThreadStopper]

Why? APP beat Michigan last year and was an at large team. What's CPs average attendance to its games? Plus CP is isolataed on the map.

If Cal Poly can not schedule regular season games in San Luis Obispo and it is too isolated to earn a playoff game what options are left for the Mustangs, go FBS? xconfusedx

[nwFL Griz]

Weber has wins over Montana Western and Dixie St.. neither near the class of Penn or Lehigh

Montana has a win over Central Washington


Villanova's wins over Penn and Lehigh top Weber's and Montana's wins by a country mile.... xnonox

I like how you conveniently left out Montana's OOC wins against Cal Poly, UC Davis and S. Utah....so your country mile statement is complete crap.

Well, then I guess it comes down to this....do you consider a loss against an FBS better than a win against anyone (FCS, DII, NAIA)? I don't.

You get credit for strength of schedule, but it's still two losses.

[Black Saturday]

You also lost to FCS teams after beating Michigan; we would be closing the season with the FBS win, and our only loss being in week 2. Can't compare them straight up.

Not that it really matters since I don't think we'll come close to winning, but I think we would deserve at least the #2 seed. Why bring up attendance and geography when supposedly that doesn't affect seeding?

"Money talks," as I was told by Matt Dougherty when discussing seeding in '05. He predicted that APP would get the #2 seed in '05, because of the fans they could put in the seats, whether it's in the rules or not. Anyway, beat Wisconsin and we'll know Sunday how the committee looks at things this year.

Hope CP and APP are seeded together so we can meet up, here or on the left coast.

[Khan4Cats]

If Cal Poly can not schedule regular season games in San Luis Obispo and it is too isolated to earn a playoff game what options are left for the Mustangs, go FBS? xconfusedx

I think the isolated comment was more along the lines that there isn't a school within driving distance of SLO. There will be a flight involved in any play-off match-up featuring Cal-Poly.

Plan on either a rematch with Montana or a face up with Weber State, depending on who gets seeded between the two. (Which is another reason I am guessing a Montana seed, the committee can avoid a re-match from the season and still keep a western match-up (Cal-Poly vs Weber State) while Montana gets the Southland champ or maybe the UNH/Maine winner.

[Khan4Cats]

"Money talks," as I was told by Matt Dougherty when discussing seeding in '05. He predicted that APP would get the #2 seed in '05, because of the fans they could put in the seats, whether it's in the rules or not. Anyway, beat Wisconsin and we'll know Sunday how the committee looks at things this year.

Hope CP and APP are seeded together so we can meet up, here or on the left coast.

As for the scenario mentioned...

I could see CP jumping ASU for the 2 seed with a second FBS win. The committee will likely keep ASU at 3 to save a possible ASU/JMU rematch in Chatty. Plus, it could put a 2 vs 3 match-up in the semi-finals on Friday night in California and save the JMU (Eastern time) match for Saturday during the day, since the daytime gametime would be early on the west coast.

[nwFL Griz]

As for the scenario mentioned...

I could see CP jumping ASU for the 2 seed with a second FBS win. The committee will likely keep ASU at 3 to save a possible ASU/JMU rematch in Chatty. Plus, it could put a 2 vs 3 match-up in the semi-finals on Friday night in California and save the JMU (Eastern time) match for Saturday during the day, since the daytime gametime would be early on the west coast.

Got two threads confused....removed comments....move along.

[Poly Pigskin]

"Money talks," as I was told by Matt Dougherty when discussing seeding in '05. He predicted that APP would get the #2 seed in '05, because of the fans they could put in the seats, whether it's in the rules or not. Anyway, beat Wisconsin and we'll know Sunday how the committee looks at things this year.

Hope CP and APP are seeded together so we can meet up, here or on the left coast.

I would love to see that matchup! Ironically, I would rather the game be at App because I'd have a MUCH better chance of actually being able to see the game in person. :D

[Edge316007]

Nova has one FBS loss and a JMU loss, just like App St.

Yes, but Villanova lost more recently. At at home. And by more points.

[slostang]

All shall be known on Sunday.

[bullseye44]

Yes, but Villanova lost more recently. At at home. And by more points.

Villanova lost at home to #1 JMU on a fluke play on the last play of the game. Their performance at WVU was good enough for that game to not be a negative factor. They should certainly factor into the discussion for a seed. I think any JMU fan can attest to that.

[TCisMYhero]

Villanova lost at home to #1 JMU on a fluke play on the last play of the game.

I.e. App St. 1st round, 2007 against JMU?

[Edge316007]

Villanova lost at home to #1 JMU on a fluke play on the last play of the game. Their performance at WVU was good enough for that game to not be a negative factor. They should certainly factor into the discussion for a seed. I think any JMU fan can attest to that.

And I'm not saying they shouldn't. The poster was comparing App to Villanova, and I was stating the differences.

FWIW: Villanova lost by 27 to WVU. App lost by 28 to a better LSU team. Again, advantage: Appalachian.


I.e. App St. 1st round, 2007 against JMU?

Not sure what that has to do with anything.

[Dukie95]

The poster was comparing App to Villanova, and I was stating the differences.


Actually, I wasn't. I was making Villanova's case for a seed. The person I replied to said he didn't see how Nova could get a seed.

[ChickenMan]

I like how you conveniently left out Montana's OOC wins against Cal Poly, UC Davis and S. Utah....so your country mile statement is complete crap.

Well, then I guess it comes down to this....do you consider a loss against an FBS better than a win against anyone (FCS, DII, NAIA)? I don't.

You get credit for strength of schedule, but it's still two losses.


Let's compare the performance of all three teams:


Nova has wins over three playoff caliber teams.. #7 Richmond, #11 UNH, #16 W&M

Montana has one win over a playoff caliber team.. #3 Cal Poly

Weber St has one win over a playoff caliber team.. #5 Montana


Nova wins are all in the FCS

Montana has one non FCS win

Weber has two non FCS wins


Nova's defeats were to FBS West Virginia and a four point loss to #1 JMU

Montana's loss was by 17 points to #8 Weber St

Weber St defeats were to FBS Hawaii and Utah

If are going to rank those three for a seed .. based on performance.. it comes out like this..

1 - Villanova
2 - Weber St
3 - Montana

I'm sure you disagree .. but it's hard to argue with the 'facts'... :p

[DSUrocks07]

Got two threads confused....removed comments....move along.

These aren't the droids you're looking for?? xconfusedx

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/7f/Obiwanmindtrick.JPG/180px-Obiwanmindtrick.JPG

[Edge316007]

Actually, I wasn't. I was making Villanova's case for a seed. The person I replied to said he didn't see how Nova could get a seed.

...Yes...comparative to App.

[Dukie95]

...Yes...comparative to App.

I guess it could have been read that way, but that wasn't my intent. I was just pointing out that Nova has the same case for a seed as App does (minus the conference championship). I wasn't trying to directly compare App and Nova.

[The Moody1]

and came closer to beating the #1 than App State did.


Since when is losing by 4 points closer than losing by 3? :D

[Throw It To Ramses!!!]

what if Cal Poly shows up to Madison and plays a tough game but only loses by a couple points? is a win the only scenario which would get us a seed and a home game? By the way, its pretty much guaranteed that if we get a home playoff game poly will put in extra bleachers and expand the capacity of spanos stadium to 12500+. Would love for weber st. to come to town and let the mustang maniacs show them how loud and rowdy we can get on the lonely central coast.

[Edge316007]

what if Cal Poly shows up to Madison and plays a tough game but only loses by a couple points? is a win the only scenario which would get us a seed and a home game? By the way, its pretty much guaranteed that if we get a home playoff game poly will put in extra bleachers and expand the capacity of spanos stadium to 12500+. Would love for weber st. to come to town and let the mustang maniacs show them how loud and rowdy we can get on the lonely central coast.

If Cal Poly AND Montana lose, I think Cal Poly gets the last seed. Same with Weber St (though I don't recall if they play a losable game). In my opinion, Villanova played their way out of a seed with their loss to TU, despite the win.

[Stang Fever]

what if Cal Poly shows up to Madison and plays a tough game but only loses by a couple points? is a win the only scenario which would get us a seed and a home game? By the way, its pretty much guaranteed that if we get a home playoff game poly will put in extra bleachers and expand the capacity of spanos stadium to 12500+. Would love for weber st. to come to town and let the mustang maniacs show them how loud and rowdy we can get on the lonely central coast.

Give them a LOSS just like last year. When we beat them.