Split the CAA?

[DTSpider]

I've been doing some thinking recently (always a little scary) and started to wonder why couldn't the CAA just split into 2 conferences? Take the teams as currently aligned and have a CAA North Conference and a CAA South conference. Each team plays teams within it's conference and you have an OOC arrangement to play 2 teams from the other Conference (a home & away game). The CAA can, and should, run both conferences. The two conferences would each meet the requirements for an auto-bid, right? Am I missing something that would keep this from happening? I was just thinking that it would make life easier when teams like ODU & GSU are ready to join, in which case you could have a 6-team conference and an 8-team conference (or the north could just add 2 more football only members (maybe albany)).

[mcveyrl]

That would work if they could work out the Auto-Bid issues...

[danefan]

I've been doing some thinking recently (always a little scary) and started to wonder why couldn't the CAA just split into 2 conferences? Take the teams as currently aligned and have a CAA North Conference and a CAA South conference. Each team plays teams within it's conference and you have an OOC arrangement to play 2 teams from the other Conference (a home & away game). The CAA can, and should, run both conferences. The two conferences would each meet the requirements for an auto-bid, right? Am I missing something that would keep this from happening? I was just thinking that it would make life easier when teams like ODU & GSU are ready to join, in which case you could have a 6-team conference and an 8-team conference (or the north could just add 2 more football only members (maybe albany)).

That was something that was discussed ad naseum when Micky Matthews was quoted as wanted two auto-bids for the CAA.

I agree. The big criticism was from the North schools who want their game at Delaware. If they could work it out with inter-conference scheduling agreements, I think you would be looking at a good deal.

Add Albany and Stony Brook to the North and you'd have two 8 team conferences.

And, if you can entice SBU to leave the Big South before 2010, you'd be able to sneak in and "steal" the AQ from the Big South for the 2010 playoffs. They will only be eligible if SBU is in the Big South in 2010.

I likey.xnodx xnodx xthumbsupx

[CRAZY_DANE]

Add Albany and Stony Brook to the North and you'd have two 8 team conferences.




That's important. Finally getting the big northeastern state schools all in the same conference. We're split between at least 3 conferences.

[youwouldno]

It would be terrific if the current CAA programs played a round robin, like the SoCon, and so you wouldn't have teams that free-ride on the conference's reputation despite an easy schedule (*cough*UNH*cough*).

[mcveyrl]

It would be terrific if the current CAA programs played a round robin, like the SoCon, and so you wouldn't have teams that free-ride on the conference's reputation despite an easy schedule (*cough*UNH*cough*).

Then everybody would complain about our weak OOC schedule...

[GannonFan]

Does it really matter? The CAA/A10/Yankee has always gotten at least 2 teams into the playoffs so getting the second automatic bid would be irrelevant. And since we can't play a true round robin unless we shrink down to 9 teams there will always be silly criticism from outside the conference about not playing everyone in the conference. I don't see the problem leaving it the way that it is - heck, once the playoffs expand we should see 5-6 CAA teams in the playoffs every year - not a bad thing at all!!! xthumbsupx

[mcveyrl]

Does it really matter? The CAA/A10/Yankee has always gotten at least 2 teams into the playoffs so getting the second automatic bid would be irrelevant. And since we can't play a true round robin unless we shrink down to 9 teams there will always be silly criticism from outside the conference about not playing everyone in the conference. I don't see the problem leaving it the way that it is - heck, once the playoffs expand we should see 5-6 CAA teams in the playoffs every year - not a bad thing at all!!! xthumbsupx

To add to this, the division winners have always made it in to the playoffs, so it's already a pseudo-auto bid now.

[henfan]

The conference won't split into two conferences because it just isn't necessary.

The meeting at the end of the season will address the issues at hand. Beyond Noth/South divisional realignment and the frequency of scheduling rotation, I don't think big changes are in store for this group. For example, we might see two 7-team divisions and a scheduling arrangement with 6 inter- and 2 intra-divisional games for each team.

Commissioner Yeager has talked about potentially implementing minimum facility standards for league members, but I'd doubt that gets done anytime soon.

[DTSpider]

The reason I ask is because of the upcoming 14 team league. Right now it's easy to rotate through with playing your 5 division mates & half of the other division. This won't be easy with 14 teams. So, my thought at that point was why not split? The other thought was that right now there are only 8 auto-bids and 8 extra teams. If the CAA could steal an auto-bid from a conference like the Big South than it would make it easier for the CAA to get more teams. My only thought is that you keep hearing that it's very much possible that UR & W&M could be two top 10 teams playing for a playoff spot while some teams ranked much lower could get an AQ (in this year - the Patriot & MEAC winners). Why should a 8-4 Richmond or William & Mary team that could be ranked around #10 be left at home while a 9-3 Patriot team that's ranked #20 be in?

[GannonFan]

To add to this, the division winners have always made it in to the playoffs, so it's already a pseudo-auto bid now.


Well, that's not technically correct - the North division winner in 1995, 1996, and 1997 did not make the playoffs those years while multiple teams from the South did make the playoffs (one time 3 teams from the South made it with no North teams).

On another note, why is it that JMU fans always seem to get the stuff that happened before 2004 incorrect??? :p :p :p :p :p (I kid, I kid!!! xpeacex ).

Oh, and to correct my earlier point, in 1986 and 1990 the Yankee only sent 1 team to the playoffs, the only years since UD and Richmond joined the conference that the conference only had one representative.

[mcveyrl]

Well, that's not technically correct - the North division winner in 1995, 1996, and 1997 did not make the playoffs those years while multiple teams from the South did make the playoffs (one time 3 teams from the South made it with no North teams).

On another note, why is it that JMU fans always seem to get the stuff that happened before 2004 incorrect??? :p :p :p :p :p (I kid, I kid!!! xpeacex ).

Oh, and to correct my earlier point, in 1986 and 1990 the Yankee only sent 1 team to the playoffs, the only years since UD and Richmond joined the conference that the conference only had one representative.

Jerk! :D (Don't you have a QB to find!)

I was only looking at CAA standings. Wasn't sure how much credit you could give earlier forms of the conference, but the alignment is pretty close to the same.

[WrenFGun]

It would be terrific if the current CAA programs played a round robin, like the SoCon, and so you wouldn't have teams that free-ride on the conference's reputation despite an easy schedule (*cough*UNH*cough*).

Way to be informed! Don't take a look at UNH's schedule last year, though! Might as well criticize UMass and Hofstra for last year's performance, while you're at it!

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

It would be terrific if the current CAA programs played a round robin, like the SoCon, and so you wouldn't have teams that free-ride on the conference's reputation despite an easy schedule (*cough*UNH*cough*).


UNH can not cash in on your "Free Ride" until the end of the season when the bids are out. IF UNH is in line for one of those bids AT THAT POINT
They will have played UMass, UMaine, W&M, Villanova and Army.
Four games v FCS top 25 and one FBS.

There are no free rides in the CAA.xnodx

This post is not by any means a prediction.xsmiley_wix

[tribe_pride]

I've been doing some thinking recently (always a little scary) and started to wonder why couldn't the CAA just split into 2 conferences? Take the teams as currently aligned and have a CAA North Conference and a CAA South conference. Each team plays teams within it's conference and you have an OOC arrangement to play 2 teams from the other Conference (a home & away game). The CAA can, and should, run both conferences. The two conferences would each meet the requirements for an auto-bid, right? Am I missing something that would keep this from happening? I was just thinking that it would make life easier when teams like ODU & GSU are ready to join, in which case you could have a 6-team conference and an 8-team conference (or the north could just add 2 more football only members (maybe albany)).

I doubt the NCAA would allow the CAA to control 2 separate conferences and get 2 auto qualifiers. You realize if there is a split, the conferences will look like this:
CAA
Delaware
Hofstra
JMU
Northeastern
Towson
W&M

Non-CAA
Maine
Nova
Richmond
UMass
UNH
URI

[danefan]

I doubt the NCAA would allow the CAA to control 2 separate conferences and get 2 auto qualifiers. You realize if there is a split, the conferences will look like this:
CAA
Delaware
Hofstra
JMU
Northeastern
Towson
W&M

Non-CAA
Maine
Nova
Richmond
UMass
UNH
URI


There is precedent for two conferences being run by the same person: The MVFC and the PFL are both run by Patty Viverito.

The CAA and the New CAA could both be run by current CAA admins.

The AQ issue is uncharted territory, although the PFL has never been told they couldn't have an AQ because they shared administrators with the MVFC.

[Appfan_in_CAAland]

If by split the CAA, you mean:

1)Kick everyone out except JMU, ODU, Georgia State, and Delaware.
2)Add Appalachian State and Georgia Southern
3)Move up to the FBS
4)Merge with the Conference USA East

Then I all for it!!!!xthumbsupx

[BDKJMU]

I've been doing some thinking recently (always a little scary) and started to wonder why couldn't the CAA just split into 2 conferences? Take the teams as currently aligned and have a CAA North Conference and a CAA South conference. Each team plays teams within it's conference and you have an OOC arrangement to play 2 teams from the other Conference (a home & away game). The CAA can, and should, run both conferences. The two conferences would each meet the requirements for an auto-bid, right? Am I missing something that would keep this from happening? I was just thinking that it would make life easier when teams like ODU & GSU are ready to join, in which case you could have a 6-team conference and an 8-team conference (or the north could just add 2 more football only members (maybe albany)).

There have been NUMEROUS threads on this already in the last yr. xdeadhorsex

[henfan]

There is precedent for two conferences being run by the same person: The MVFC and the PFL are both run by Patty Viverito.

In fairness though, that's an entirely different situation than what DTSpider had proposed.

The MVFC doesn't run the PFL; it simply shares a common FB commissioner. It wasn't a situation of the PFL breaking out of the MVFC and creating an entirely new conference. The PFL also presented little conflict of interest to the Gateway/MoValley in terms of playoff eligibility.

Most of all, there's little incentive or necessity for the CAA to voluntarily split itself in two. Until/unless the affiliates can build a solid, viable coalition requesting autonomy, any sort of split isn't likely to happen.

[89Hen]

Does it really matter? The CAA/A10/Yankee has always gotten at least 2 teams into the playoffs so getting the second automatic bid would be irrelevant.
Correct. It's a moot point.

[rcny46]

Way to be informed! Don't take a look at UNH's schedule last year, though! Might as well criticize UMass and Hofstra for last year's performance, while you're at it!

Amazing isn't it? The north and south divisions of the CAA have that rotational scheduling,and that's the way it is.This year UNH has W&M,UMass,Villanova,and a good UMaine team.I'm sick of the pot shots and weak schedule comments.I don't quite understand why they are ranked where they are in the AGS poll if they are considered to be paper tigers by numerous members.

[Jackman]

I doubt the NCAA would allow the CAA to control 2 separate conferences and get 2 auto qualifiers. You realize if there is a split, the conferences will look like this:
CAA
Delaware
Hofstra
JMU
Northeastern
Towson
W&M

Non-CAA
Maine
Nova
Richmond
UMass
UNH
URI

The reason to try to have two conferences under one banner would be so that Northeastern and Hofstra can continue playing with the Northern teams and Richmond and Villanova can continue playing in the Southern half, without technically having to change conference affiliations. The last thing a program like Northeastern needs right now is for the CAA to yank all of its local competition away. May as well dig their grave for them.

[mainejeff]

Commissioner Yeager has talked about potentially implementing minimum facility standards for league members, but I'd doubt that gets done anytime soon.

Especially when full CAA member Northeastern is at the bottom of the facility barrel.

[appfan2008]

this gets brought up every few weeks... just split up already

[Jackman]

Re: schedule rotations, I do wonder why they threw Delaware and JMU together in the same group for the Northern schools to play. Obviously you can't predict which teams are going to be good several years into the future, but Delaware and JMU have by far the largest athletic budgets among the full CAA members. The South teams don't play UMass and UNH in the same year, who have the largest budgets on the North side. The way they probably should have done it is:

Group A: Delaware, Richmond, Towson
Group B: James Madison, Villanova, William & Mary

Doesn't guarantee anything, but I think it gives the best odds of balanced scheduling. On the North side, pretty much any combination works as well as any other so long as UMass is separated from UNH.

[GATA]

I'd like to see Richmond join the SOCON...that's about it.

[henfan]

Especially when full CAA member Northeastern is at the bottom of the facility barrel.

Yup, that's exactly right. They also probably don't want to force the hands of the cash-strapped affiliates, especially since many of them have made modest facility improvements.

[henfan]

this gets brought up every few weeks... just split up already

Better yet, why continually bring it up if a split isn't realistically on the horizon? xconfusedx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I doubt the NCAA would allow the CAA to control 2 separate conferences and get 2 auto qualifiers. You realize if there is a split, the conferences will look like this:
CAA
Delaware
Nova
Richmond
JMU
Towson
W&M
ODU
Georgia State

New Yankee Conference
Maine
Hofstra
Northeastern
UMass
UNH
URI
Albany
CCSU


Fixed it for you. xwhistlex

[Jackman]

At the risk of inciting the rage of the people sick of this topic...

Stony Brook would be ahead of Albany and CCSU on the New Yankee's draft chart. Might even throw Fordham in there, were it not for their commitment to half-assing everything they do.

[Dane96]

LOL.

OK Jackman. Ummmm....Stony Brook's suga daddy just got it's ass kicked (LaValle).

Albany, in fact, has been considered the top NE expansion school for the CAA by most. It is not just based on football...but the entire package.

And if you think Hofstra is going to approve SBU over Albany if one got in...you are nuts.

[Jackman]

I don't keep tabs on the America East outside UNH and Maine, so it's entirely possible that circumstances have changed without my knowledge and I don't know what I'm talking about, but I thought the Stoners were the ones with the nice new football stadium and the larger attendance and the larger athletic budget and the larger number of scholarships and the larger enrollment and the larger endowment and the larger market and the higher US News ranking. Are those things not still true?

Despite how that sounds, I have nothing against Albany. They certainly belong in the discussion. Good program considering the limitations they work within. It's just hard to look at the numbers objectively and come to a different conclusion, other than with respect to the issue raised regarding the potential overlap with Hofstra. But if there's a split along CAA/non-CAA lines, Hofstra is no longer with us. It's also true that Stony has a horrific basketball program, but that's someone else's problem. We're not playing basketball with them.

Anyway, there's probably room for both.

[Dane96]

Jackman...those are true...to an extent...but maybe you should keep tabs on the program. I know UMASS is. You do know UMASS rejected Stony Brook to play at Stony Brook's stadium...but is coming to play at rusty and wooden bleacher ****ty UALBANY Stadium. Why....I will leave it at that.

Suggestion: research this before commenting. Research the poltics and history. Now, I am not saying they dont (SBU) belong in the discussion...because they do...but there are more powers that be looking North. It has been said in the circles of those who know, that if an all-sport expansion came...it would go through Albany....followed by UNH.

[Jackman]

Thanks. I thought about accessing the History of SUNY Campus Athletic Program Politics website before posting, but I figured why not just book a trip for the family to New York and visit the museum in person.

I did take the time to accumulate all of the critical data for all the athletic programs in the northeast with football: Enrollment, endowment, budget, stadium size, most recent attendance, most recent rank, academic rank, DMA rank, basketball stats, etc. It doesn't tell the entire story, but I figured that was a good enough starting point. I don't know New York university politics from Ohio university politics, or anywhere else. Would be great if someone else filled that in, it's not the sort of thing you can dig up and plug into a spreadsheet if you don't know what you're looking for. If I inadvertently left off an "I'd think" from the beginning of the one sentence reply that touched this off (which included a pre-disclaimer that I might be pissing off people who hashed this topic out before), my bad.

[UAalum72]

LaValle, the chairman of the NYS Senate education committee, is the one SBU named their stadium after. But the Republicans just lost control of the state senate, so they're lucky he approved expansion of their stadium last year.

In spite of the relative merits of the football stadiums, Albany's per-game attendance this year is ahead of Stony Brook. I guess moving to the Big South didn't bring in any extra fans.

[ngineer]

The reason I ask is because of the upcoming 14 team league. Right now it's easy to rotate through with playing your 5 division mates & half of the other division. This won't be easy with 14 teams. So, my thought at that point was why not split? The other thought was that right now there are only 8 auto-bids and 8 extra teams. If the CAA could steal an auto-bid from a conference like the Big South than it would make it easier for the CAA to get more teams. My only thought is that you keep hearing that it's very much possible that UR & W&M could be two top 10 teams playing for a playoff spot while some teams ranked much lower could get an AQ (in this year - the Patriot & MEAC winners). Why should a 8-4 Richmond or William & Mary team that could be ranked around #10 be left at home while a 9-3 Patriot team that's ranked #20 be in?

Because they're the League Champions. No different than any othe league. With your excuse for 8-4 teams, you could extend that argument across the country, let alone the PL.