Question for SWAC AGSers

[DSUrocks07]

Seeing that the SWAC is currently made up of ten teams, with five in each division. Has your conference officials looked into expanding further? Adding two schools to give the SWAC a full 12-member slate? If I am not mistaken, the NCAA by-laws permit a conference championship game if a conference is at 12 members to determine the recipient of the AQ. (Will not count as a post-season contest). For regional purposes, I would suspect that the SIAC would be a primary target for this expansion. Which schools would you like to see in the SWAC?

The reason why I am asking this is because I have an idea that I am currently in the planning stages of and I want to test the waters with the preliminary stages of that plan. This plan will have to do with the not only the SWAC but the MEAC as well. xthumbsupx

But since its currently still in the early stages, my lips are sealed on this one. xwhistlex

[TexasTerror]

Why does it matter? They already play a SCG and more importantly, it would not allow for anything to do with the playoffs due to other things that get in the way -- see Turkey Day Classic, Bayou Classic.

If you are getting at the return of the Heritage Bowl -- good luck with that. Several MEAC schools wouldn't want a part of that. Too interested in the playoffs, but we've beaten all of these horses to death...

[SUjagTILLiDIE]

Several MEAC schools wouldn't want a part of that. Too interested in the playoffs, but we've beaten all of these horses to death...
xlolx Lets revisit this in a couple of years.

[Mr. Tiger]

SWAC officials have discussed expansion but no serious talks. First off, there are few programs in our area that we could bring in. They would have to be full members, participating in all sports, and that limits possible candidates. Tuskegee is a very logical choice, but the school's older alumni have declined to consider moving up to FCS. Tennessee State has explored a move from the OVC to the SWAC, but nothing serious, just talk. There are no other possible candidates at this time. Most of the schools in the SIAC would have to expand their programs and most are located in areas, Georgia, that would be too far for the Texas schools.
So I expect the SWAC to remain at 10 teams for a while.

[DSUrocks07]

Why does it matter? They already play a SCG and more importantly, it would not allow for anything to do with the playoffs due to other things that get in the way -- see Turkey Day Classic, Bayou Classic.

Those games conflict due to the start of the FCS playoffs (Thanksgiving weekend), since the FCS title game is being moved two to three weeks ahead this leaves the opportunity to move the start of the playoffs up a week. Allowing the SWAC to participate if they choose to do so.

As for the second part of your question. The "Heritage Bowl" was doomed of failure from the start. Our conferences looked at it as strictly another football game. xnonono2x xnonono2x xnonono2x xnonono2x

[TexasTerror]

Moratorium puts this subject to bed for the time being as only Div I programs would be able to move into the SWAC. Georgia would be rough for the SWAC, which is strictly a 'bus league'. Can't imagine making the drive from Houston to Georgia...yuck!

[TexasTerror]

Those games conflict due to the start of the FCS playoffs (Thanksgiving weekend), since the FCS title game is being moved two to three weeks ahead this leaves the opportunity to move the start of the playoffs up a week. Allowing the SWAC to participate if they choose to do so.

From a recent article...the schedule will not move. No reason to move it. The SWAC schools do not feel they would benefit financially (nor will they) and when it comes to the SWAC, that's the concern.

They do not have the finances to keep their kids on campus into the holiday break, if their teams were to progress into mid to late December. We're talking about some of the lowest, if not the lowest budgets in Division I. Financially, it does not make sense.


Beginning in 2010, the playoffs will expand from 16 to 20 teams and thus require an extra round of games. They will begin as they do now, a week after the regular season ends. The semifinals will be played on that third weekend in December and then the title game will be played between Dec. 29 and the BCS title game, depending on ESPN’s schedule, Leech said.

(Credit: http://www.championshipsubdivisionnews.com/?title=chattanooga-fcs-final-will-move-to-janua&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1)

The playoffs this year would have started Nov. 29. Round of 16 on Dec. 6. Quarterfinals on Dec. 13. Semifinals on Dec 19 and 20 with the championship game a little over a week to a week and a half later...

[DSUrocks07]

Moratorium puts this subject to bed for the time being as only Div I programs would be able to move into the SWAC. Georgia would be rough for the SWAC, which is strictly a 'bus league'. Can't imagine making the drive from Houston to Georgia...yuck!

That moratorium expires in June 2011. After that, all bets are off. And I agree that Georgia would be too far for the SWAC. Thats MEAC territory xthumbsupx

[813Jag]

10 is enough, I miss the 8 team SWAC.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

10 is enough, I miss the 8 team SWAC.



I miss "The Super Eight" too! xbawlingx

[3rd Coast Tiger]

That moratorium expires in June 2011. After that, all bets are off. And I agree that Georgia would be too far for the SWAC. Thats MEAC territory xthumbsupx

Morris Brown would have more than likely been in the SWAC now had......

[th0m]

I miss "The Super Eight" too! xbawlingx

Who were the original 8 teams, if you don't mind me asking.

[Panther88]

Who were the original 8 teams, if you don't mind me asking.

Pretty much everyone but the Alabama schools. (Alabama St and Alabama A&M)

The SWAC was comprised primarily in Tx, La, Ar, Ms. :) (PVAMU, sTu, SU, GSU, UAPB, AlcSU, MVSU, and JSU)

[813Jag]

Who were the original 8 teams, if you don't mind me asking.
The 8 team SWAC was Alabama St, Alcorn St, Grambling St, Jackson St, Mississippi Valley St, Prairie View A&M, Southern U, and Texas Southern U.

[Panther88]

Uh oh!!!!! Methinks you're right J813. I forgot that UAPB left and then was re-admitted in the what.... early 90s after they served a death sentence, correct? I thought Bama St entered in like.... '81 or therabouts so prior to that, I think it was only 7 teams.

I'm not in too much of the know about the "Super 8" because I wasn't caring @ that time. lol Esp when Grambling and esp JState dominated football the way they did during the 80s and early part of the 90s.

[mikebigg]

Why does it matter? They already play a SCG and more importantly, it would not allow for anything to do with the playoffs due to other things that get in the way -- see Turkey Day Classic, Bayou Classic.

If you are getting at the return of the Heritage Bowl -- good luck with that. Several MEAC schools wouldn't want a part of that. Too interested in the playoffs, but we've beaten all of these horses to death...

The Poster asked a question of SWAC posters on AGS about what teams we would like to add in a possible expansion and the first person to post is a guy who only THINKS that he knows about the SWAC! Then your "answer" has nothing to do with his question but is another of your opinions on what will and won't work for our league. Damn you need to get a life!!!!

[mikebigg]

The "original" 8 that was mentioned are not the original members of the SWAC... the only Charter member of the original SWAC is Prairie View. The second oldest is SU, then GSU & JSU sometimes in the 50's (I think), followed shortly thereafter by Alcorn, then MSVU, PB was once in but left only to rejoin with Alabama A&M. However, both of them were after Bama State who came from the SIAC in the late 70's early 80's.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

The "original" 8 that was mentioned are not the original members of the SWAC... the only Charter member of the original SWAC is Prairie View. The second oldest is SU, then GSU & JSU sometimes in the 50's (I think), followed shortly thereafter by Alcorn, then MSVU, PB was once in but left only to rejoin with Alabama A&M. However, both of them were after Bama State who came from the SIAC in the late 70's early 80's.

Texas Southern joined the Southwestern Athletic Conference in 1954.


In 1920, eight men representing six colleges from the state of Texas met to discuss collegiate athletics and the many challenges that face their respective institutions. By the time the session in Houston had concluded, they had founded an athletic league that has slowly became one of the leading sports associations in the world of collegiate athletics, the Southwestern Athletic Conference
The founding fathers of the original “Super Six” were C.H. Fuller of Bishop College, Red Randolph and C.H. Patterson of Paul Quinn, E.G. Evans, H.J. Evans and H.J. Starns of Prairie View A&M, D.C. Fuller of Texas College and G. Whitte Jordan of Wiley College.


Membership Timeline

Bishop College 1920-56

Paul Quinn College 1920-29

Sam Houston College 1920-59 (no, it's not Sam Houston State University)

Texas College 1920-68

Wiley College 1920-68

Prairie View A&M 1920-present

Langston University 1931-57

Arkansas AM&N 1936-70

Southern 1934-present

Texas Southern 1954-present

Grambling State 1958-present

Jackson State 1958-present

Alcorn State 1962-present

Mississippi Valley State 1968-present

Alabama State 1982-present

Arkansas-Pine Bluff 1997-present

Alabama A&M 1999-present

http://www.swac.org/ssp/history

[813Jag]

The "original" 8 that was mentioned are not the original members of the SWAC... the only Charter member of the original SWAC is Prairie View. The second oldest is SU, then GSU & JSU sometimes in the 50's (I think), followed shortly thereafter by Alcorn, then MSVU, PB was once in but left only to rejoin with Alabama A&M. However, both of them were after Bama State who came from the SIAC in the late 70's early 80's.
I didn't go into the history of the SWAC, I just listed the 8 that I grew up with. I'm a young buck. xlolx

[3rd Coast Tiger]

The Poster asked a question of SWAC posters on AGS about what teams we would like to add in a possible expansion and the first person to post is a guy who only THINKS that he knows about the SWAC! Then your "answer" has nothing to do with his question but is another of your opinions on what will and won't work for our league. Damn you need to get a life!!!!

Amen!

TT, learn some humilty and please understand that you DO NOT have to reply to every thread. You may have worked at Texas Southern as a statistician for a minute but give it a rest dude.

Furthermore, you say many of the MEAC schools won't go for a championship game but are you basing your sources from what you read off the MEAC message board of some fans/alumni are have you as the media interviewed members of the Board of Regents and Chancellors and or Presidents to base your decision?

[mikebigg]

Amen!

TT, learn some humilty and please understand that you DO NOT have to reply to every thread. You may have worked at Texas Southern as a statistician for a minute but give it a rest dude.

Really...

Thanks for the listing of SWAC school's entry date. Didn't mean to overlook TxSU but kinda glad I did... I wouldn't have learned that yall came in to the league before we did.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Really...

Thanks for the listing of SWAC school's entry date. Didn't mean to overlook TxSU but kinda glad I did... I wouldn't have learned that yall came in to the league before we did.

xthumbsupx

[mikebigg]

xthumbsupx

I should have asked TT...I bet he knew (or thinks he does)!!xwhistlex

[Panther88]

Also "Sam Huston College" is the school we know as Huston-Tillotson College in Austin, Tx - across from UT-Austin. xreadx

(Huston w/out the "o" xreadx )

[DSUrocks07]

The main reason is I am wondering about the interest in Tuskegee U. Due to its perception of being the best among the HBCUs (according to the BCF poll), and if the SWAC would welcome them into the fold. I think it would make for some very exciting games and would make all of the more competitive HBCU programs into Division I, increasing its exposure.

Knowing that the split is currently 5 and 5, odds are that another school would have to join to keep the balance as well. Such as TSU to the SWAC East, and TU to the West or something of that nature.

[mikebigg]

The main reason is I am wondering about the interest in Tuskegee U. Due to its perception of being the best among the HBCUs (according to the BCF poll), and if the SWAC would welcome them into the fold. I think it would make for some very exciting games and would make all of the more competitive HBCU programs into Division I, increasing its exposure.

Knowing that the split is currently 5 and 5, odds are that another school would have to join to keep the balance as well. Such as TSU to the SWAC East, and TU to the West or something of that nature.

Bring Langston into the West to balance Tuskegee being added to the East. Tuskegee has a good team...but I don't think they would win the SWAC on a regular basis, if at all.

[DSUrocks07]

Bring Langston into the West to balance Tuskegee being added to the East. Tuskegee has a good team...but I don't think they would win the SWAC on a regular basis, if at all.


They wouldn't have too. But at least all of this talk that they are the best BCF team would be tempered at least. And plus six teams in a division will help travel costs immensely.

[813Jag]

The main reason is I am wondering about the interest in Tuskegee U. Due to its perception of being the best among the HBCUs (according to the BCF poll), and if the SWAC would welcome them into the fold. I think it would make for some very exciting games and would make all of the more competitive HBCU programs into Division I, increasing its exposure.

Knowing that the split is currently 5 and 5, odds are that another school would have to join to keep the balance as well. Such as TSU to the SWAC East, and TU to the West or something of that nature.
I don't think the SWAC needs to add another school. But if they did hopefully they'll shift Alcorn to the West. Two of their biggest games (Southern and Grambling) are already on that side.

[Native]

I don't think the SWAC needs to add another school. But if they did hopefully they'll shift Alcorn to the West. Two of their biggest games (Southern and Grambling) are already on that side.

...and Alcorn won both games in 2006. :D :D

[BgJag]

...and Alcorn won both games in 2006. :D :D

...and haven't won a championship since 1994. :D :D

[813Jag]

...and Alcorn won both games in 2006. :D :D
that's because my homeboy (Charlie Spiller) was there. xlolx

[SUjagTILLiDIE]

They do not have the finances to keep their kids on campus into the holiday break, if their teams were to progress into mid to late December.



You are sad.xlolx

[TexasTerror]

You are sad.xlolx

It was a big issue for baseball, it is why the SWAC baseball tournament was originally moved up with such the large gap before the NCAA tournament and a week or few before the rest of the conferences started their tournament, am I wrong? SWAC schools are going to have to dish out the $$$ when they push the thing back.

And as we've seen, SWAC budgets are at the bottom of the barrel as far as FCS schools go...another fact according to the OPOE numbers or whomever puts those out.

[SUjagTILLiDIE]

And as we've seen, SWAC budgets are at the bottom of the barrel as far as FCS schools go...another fact according to the OPOE numbers or whomever puts those out.
BS. As far as Louisiana is concerned Southern and Gramblings budgets are much larger than there SLC friends.

[TexasTerror]

BS. As far as Louisiana is concerned Southern and Gramblings budgets are much larger than there SLC friends.

Well, the government is a load of crock then, eh? xeekx

According to the US Dept of Postsecondary Education, 2007 figures -- xreadx

Average SLC athletic budget - $7 million
Average SWAC athletic budget - $5.2 million

In fact, of all the Div I conferences - the SWAC ranks dead last. xwhistlex

http://www.midmajority.com/2008/01/the-red-line.php

And if you want to talk Louisiana...speak for yourself. SU is high, but Grambling is lower than everyone except Nicholls of the SLC schools. So, I call BS on you with Grambling...because quite frankly, I don't doubt the government.

Southern - $7.9M
Northwestern State - $7.2M
Southeastern La - $6.8M
McNeese - $6.2M
Grambling - $5.8M
Nicholls - $5.0M

http://ope.ed.gov/

[Mr. Tiger]

It was a big issue for baseball, it is why the SWAC baseball tournament was originally moved up with such the large gap before the NCAA tournament and a week or few before the rest of the conferences started their tournament, am I wrong? SWAC schools are going to have to dish out the $$$ when they push the thing back.

And as we've seen, SWAC budgets are at the bottom of the barrel as far as FCS schools go...another fact according to the OPOE numbers or whomever puts those out.

xnonono2x Have you even reviewed the 2006 numbers? Let's have a look.

SWAC Jackson State's budget is $6.1 million
Southland McNeese State's budget is $6.2 million

Southland Sam Houston State's budget is $7.6 million
SWAC Southern University's budget is $7.9 million

Southland Nicholls State's budget is $5 million
SWAC Texas Southern's budget is $5.6 million

Southland Central Arkansas's budget is $6.7 million
SWAC Arkansas Pine-Bluff's budget is $5.2 million

Others in the Southland and SWAC are between 5-7 million. The only thing that separates the Southland from SWAC is the very large budgets of Texas State and Stephen F. Austin and the very small budgets of Prairie View, Valley and Alcorn. Note: Alcorn is currently increasing its budget and PV is attempting to improve. Valley has always had a small budget.

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/

[Mr. Tiger]

Well, the government is a load of crock then, eh? xeekx

According to the US Dept of Postsecondary Education, 2007 figures -- xreadx

Average SLC athletic budget - $7 million
Average SWAC athletic budget - $5.2 million

In fact, of all the Div I conferences - the SWAC ranks dead last. xwhistlex

http://www.midmajority.com/2008/01/the-red-line.php

And if you want to talk Louisiana...speak for yourself. SU is high, but Grambling is lower than everyone except Nicholls of the SLC schools.

Southern - $7.9M
Northwestern State - $7.2M
Southeastern La - $6.8M
McNeese - $6.2M
Grambling - $5.8M
Nicholls - $5.0M

http://ope.ed.gov/

Texas State's $1.3 billion and Stephen F. Austin's $8.8 million helps the Southland's average out A LOT. And Valley and PV hurt the SWAC. But PV has done more with less than any team in both conferences. xnodx

[TexasTerror]

I did -- read my post above. :)

Your budgets still rank low, the lowest. That is a fact. Our budgets are all about to go up, especially in Texas. Lamar is adding football and new fees. SHSU just approved a new fee that will put us more in line with SFA. UTSA and UTA are throwing more $$$ at athletics. And we all know TXST sure as heck is. UCA's budget is only going up as they go full Div I.

SLC schools are getting much more out of their budgets than the SWAC. Sure, rather comparable (for now), but the SLC is not at the bottom of the RPI charts in every sport as is the case for the SWAC. In this day and age, it's about stretching the almighty dollar as far as it goes and not spend it the instant you get it. The SLC is doing that and even trying to get ahead of the game with new initiatives that are ahead of the others in FCS (see SLC/Big XII football officials partnership that is now being emulated by several other FCS/FBS conferences, see SLC TV, etc).

[R.A.]

xlolx Lets revisit this in a couple of years.

We'll have another NCAA National Title by thenxlolx

[Mr. Tiger]

I did -- read my post above. :)

Your budgets still rank low, the lowest. That is a fact. Our budgets are all about to go up, especially in Texas. Lamar is adding football and new fees. SHSU just approved a new fee that will put us more in line with SFA. UTSA and UTA are throwing more $$$ at athletics. And we all know TXST sure as heck is. UCA's budget is only going up as they go full Div I.

SLC schools are getting much more out of their budgets than the SWAC. Sure, rather comparable (for now), but the SLC is not at the bottom of the RPI charts in every sport as is the case for the SWAC. In this day and age, it's about stretching the almighty dollar as far as it goes and not spend it the instant you get it. The SLC is doing that and even trying to get ahead of the game with new initiatives that are ahead of the others in FCS (see SLC/Big XII football officials partnership that is now being emulated by several other FCS/FBS conferences, see SLC TV, etc).

Some SWAC budgets will also increase next season and that's without new fees. Fees are an added cost to students. Is that something to be proud of? But I'm glad that you have finally admitted that most SWAC schools and most Southland schools have comparable budgets. And Southland schools don't stretch the almighty dollar any more than SWAC schools. The edge comes from recruiting. Southland schools have a larger pool of possible recruits. I will spare you the details on this because I have talked about it before and I really hate rehashing.

[SUjagTILLiDIE]

And if you want to talk Louisiana...speak for yourself. SU is high, but Grambling is lower than everyone except Nicholls of the SLC schools. So, I call BS on you with Grambling...because quite frankly, I don't doubt the government.

Southern - $7.9M
Northwestern State - $7.2M
Southeastern La - $6.8M
McNeese - $6.2M
Grambling - $5.8M
Nicholls - $5.0M

http://ope.ed.gov/

Let me rephrase my statement. SU and Gram makes way more than the Louisiana SLC schools in football. Those funds are not always put back into athletics.

[TexasTerror]

Let me rephrase my statement. SU and Gram makes way more than the Louisiana SLC schools in football. Those funds are not always put back into athletics.

Well, perhaps your schools need to put some more of that back into athletics. It's only causing your schools to make your basketball teams hit the road for most of the OOC season (if not all of it) to make some dough as well.

[Native]

that's because my homeboy (Charlie Spiller) was there. xlolx

Charlie was getting sniffs from the NFL scouts. Did he ever get an invitation to a tryout or camp?

[813Jag]

Charlie was getting sniffs from the NFL scouts. Did he ever get an invitation to a tryout or camp?
he was cut by the Bucs in camp.

[SUjagTILLiDIE]

Well, perhaps your schools need to put some more of that back into athletics. It's only causing your schools to make your basketball teams hit the road for most of the OOC season (if not all of it) to make some dough as well.
Compared to other FCS schools in the region what is wrong with SU's budget. You are sad.

[TexasTerror]

Compared to other FCS schools in the region what is wrong with SU's budget. You are sad.

Hey, last I checked -- we are talking about the SWAC as a whole. Remember, SU is not the entire SWAC and the SWAC is not holding back Southern...don't go TXST on us!

Southern does have some of the best in-game entertainment in collegiate baseball! xnodx