Iona College football in jeopardy

[daywoo7]

Bad news from New Rochelle, there are discussions to possibly cancel the football program. While no decision has been made we are currentely trying anything we can do to keep the program alive. None of us here get scholarships, the facilities aren't great but we work as hard as anybody. We stay here over the summer have 5am runs and go through two-a-days in camp. We all love the game of football and would do anything to keep playing. Most of us pay $30,000 plus just to play football. Everyone at Iona loves our team and we get great support from the student body, however the President is trying to get rid of us for reasons unknown to us. They also brought this up midseason which seems very disrespectful to us. I'm here asking the Any Given Saturday Community for any help you can give. Please take 5 minute out of your day and write a letter or e-mail to our president offering support for us and try to help convinve our president, Brother Liguori to not make a grave mistake and cancel our program. You can reach him at his e-mail- [email protected] - by phone at (914) 633-2203 - by mail at Iona College, 715 North Ave., New Rochelle, NY 10801.




"The Iona College football team returned a majority of their roster from last year to play in the 2008 season. They wear the same jerseys, play on the same field, and have the same head coach from last year, yet something is different. Familiar names like Marist and LaSalle are no longer present on Iona’s schedule of games."

[Grizzaholic]

I will cut one off right now.

[Bogus Megapardus]

What are the options for Iona?

[apppackdad]

Iona . Investigate the Pioneer League. Have connections with Davidson and Campbell and they are very happy with this option. Is ther any similar option in the Norteast? Patriot perhaps ?

[DFW HOYA]

““Br Liguori will make a decision, and whatever his decision is will be what happens.”


Decision by fiat?

[daywoo7]

The options apear to be Pioneer League or remain independent for now. We do have a good schedule for next year with games against Old Dominion, Liberty, Columbia, North Dakota, a couple of NEC games. Also we have been told that the decision will be made around the end of November.

[Bogus Megapardus]

The options apear to be Pioneer League or remain independent for now. We do have a good schedule for next year with games against Old Dominion, Liberty, Columbia, North Dakota, a couple of NEC games. Also we have been told that the decision will be made around the end of November.

That's an excellent schedule. I certainly hope the Gaels will be able to play. Those games will be tough, though. Very tough.

I suppose, similar to Marist, there has been some consideration of the Patriot League. It would take a huge investment by the College, however.

[DFW HOYA]

The options apear to be Pioneer League or remain independent for now. We do have a good schedule for next year with games against Old Dominion, Liberty, Columbia, North Dakota, a couple of NEC games. Also we have been told that the decision will be made around the end of November.

Here's the problem--Iona cannot hope to compete against these teams with the MAAC-sized budget. These are body-bag games.

Solution? Take the "Davidson clause" and ask for an NCAA waiver from the five D-I school minimum. Keep Marist and Wagner and fill it in with D-III teams until Iona can rebuild its records and its fundraising.

[Seawolf97]

I will e mail the good Brother. I know from our brief stay as an independent last year it is tough to schedule and travel can be a problem. Hopefully the PFL is an option for you guys . We were lucky to find a home in the Big South . I know you have everyones support in thisxthumbsupx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

“All of these other colleges have made the decision because there is no chance to be competitive in the main league,” Liguori said.

Non-scholarship playing against D-I FCS teams with up to 63 scholarships can be a challenge, no doubt. But if you ask Pioneer League folks about their league, they'd say that they're different than the rest of FCS - they play in the "Gridiron Classic" and have their own postseason, etc.

Thinking of Iona as being "uncompetitive with the main league" isn't the right mindset to have. Being competitive with other D-I non-scholarship programs is.

Good luck with your fight, daywoo7.

[GaelsFootball]

What makes this more frustrating is that there seems to be some misconceptions from the President and others involved with this decision making. The president is quoted as saying "Marist is the only MAAC team left" (Duquense plays NEC and we beat the last two meetings).
He then goes on to say its is "more difficult to compete"...Well of course its going to more hard to win ballgames when you don't make a commitment to the program and stay INDY. We lost 9 starters on defense and have a frosh starting at QB...The talent here is great...but we are so young right now.(I wonder if Ligouri remembers when Mens BBall won MAAC's then followed it by making national headlines by losing their first 20 plus games the next year.) And in terms of competing...take a look at the baseball program...we had more wins than them the past season.
One last quote I want to touch on is when he goes on to say, "Other (MAAC) colleges have made the decision (to drop) because no chance of being competitive."
The last two teams to drop were just downright bad. LaSalle had no chance of wining any game (35 points we put on them in the first quarter). St. Peters were years removed from their last winning season when they dropped and were under 60 man roster when they dropped. We have everything in place to be more than competitive in the Pioneer League except commitment from the school.
This has been so frustrating especially coming off of last year when we thought we had won over some folks around here who didn't believe in us.
Thank you to anyone who supports us in this matter. We could use the help.

[slostang]

Best of luck. I will send a e-mail and hope for the best. I played at Cal Poly Pomona when they dropped the program and my scholarship. That was a very difficult year.

[Go...gate]

Schools have arranged for interlocking schedule arrangements with conferences at times. Army informally has this with the MAC and Notre Dame plays 2 Big East teams a year, sometimes more. Maybe Iona needs to talk to the Ivy, Patriot and/or Pioneer about something like this. Knowing the kids want the program to continue, the administration needs to step up. I will e-mail as well.

[401ks]

But if you ask Pioneer League folks about their league, they'd say that they're different than the rest of FCS - they play in the "Gridiron Classic" and have their own postseason, etc.

Huh?

Who in the PFL says we're "different" than the rest of FCS? (Aside from Patty V., of course! xrolleyesx )

How?

Please elaborate.

Thanks!

[gophoenix]

Huh?

Who in the PFL says we're "different" than the rest of FCS? (Aside from Patty V., of course! xrolleyesx )

How?

Please elaborate.

Thanks!

About everyone says it that is a Pioneer fan. They market it different. They president supports it differently. It is spun differently to recruits. Just do a quick search on this board for any explanation you need.

[gophoenix]

What makes this more frustrating is that there seems to be some misconceptions from the President and others involved with this decision making. The president is quoted as saying "Marist is the only MAAC team left" (Duquense plays NEC and we beat the last two meetings).
He then goes on to say its is "more difficult to compete"...Well of course its going to more hard to win ballgames when you don't make a commitment to the program and stay INDY. We lost 9 starters on defense and have a frosh starting at QB...The talent here is great...but we are so young right now.(I wonder if Ligouri remembers when Mens BBall won MAAC's then followed it by making national headlines by losing their first 20 plus games the next year.) And in terms of competing...take a look at the baseball program...we had more wins than them the past season.
One last quote I want to touch on is when he goes on to say, "Other (MAAC) colleges have made the decision (to drop) because no chance of being competitive."
The last two teams to drop were just downright bad. LaSalle had no chance of wining any game (35 points we put on them in the first quarter). St. Peters were years removed from their last winning season when they dropped and were under 60 man roster when they dropped. We have everything in place to be more than competitive in the Pioneer League except commitment from the school.
This has been so frustrating especially coming off of last year when we thought we had won over some folks around here who didn't believe in us.
Thank you to anyone who supports us in this matter. We could use the help.

This is a real shame. Would be a shame to lose the only FCS school with a real pipe and drum band too. Would the NEC be interested in Iona? And why not the Pioneer? There would be some long bus rides to NC, KY, the Midwest and FL but you'd have an in-state rival again with Marist and you'd avoid going up against FCS competition that would probably murder you. Plus there are many schools in the NE you guys can play to avoid traveling to the west coast, which is expensive. Heck, many of the top FCS east coast and west coast teams try not to travel far for games because of travel costs.

I'm sorry, but anyone drawing up a comparison of UC-Davis to Iona isn't being fair to your team. If you truly have no scholarships or grants in aid, then you are at a huge disadvantage when playing much of the rest of us.

If all you guys say is true, it sounds like the school has made the decision and is making excuses now to bring everyone down easy. There are ways to make this work, but first the administration needs to show support, not set up for failure. Maybe it is going to take alumni and students getting together on a campaign NOW to save football before a decision is made that can't be easily reversed (see ETSU)

[WildPard]

Here's the problem--Iona cannot hope to compete against these teams with the MAAC-sized budget. These are body-bag games.

Solution? Take the "Davidson clause" and ask for an NCAA waiver from the five D-I school minimum. Keep Marist and Wagner and fill it in with D-III teams until Iona can rebuild its records and its fundraising.

DFW HOYA--I'm relatively new to the board-please tell what the Davidson clause is and when/why it was used. Never heard of it.

[Cobblestone]

I wish you guys the best and I don't have a problem firing off an e-mail to your president. However, these are a sign of the times. Combine that with the fact that FCS football in the northeast is pretty much unsupported and you don't have a good mix. Believe me I know, our program teeters every year with the possibility of extinction as well. Thankfully we have plenty of former players who want to the program to last and have been generous in their donations. This plus the fact that we have a supportive president have helped us greatly.

However, the decision is always that of the school president. Most college professors and administrators walk around with a stick stuck up their @$$ and are normally not too big on athletics. I always say they should pull the stick out, let their hair down and go to the game and TRY to have a good time for once. But I won't say that to your president.

I hope your program survives and that you can land in the NEC which seems like a logical choice.

Best.

[DetroitFlyer]

About everyone says it that is a Pioneer fan. They market it different. They president supports it differently. It is spun differently to recruits. Just do a quick search on this board for any explanation you need.


Wow, what boards are you reading? I think it may be called fantasy land....

Most PFL FANS firmly believe that we are an FCS conference. Most PFL FANS are not happy with the Gridiron Classic and think our champion should earn an automatic bid to the FCS playoffs! I hope you caught the note that Iona would have to make a BIG investment to come up to PFL levels!

PFL teams recruit DIVISION I Athletes. Don't believe me, check out this thread on a "real" PFL fan board:

http://www.udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6102

Most PFL teams have been working to upgrade future schedules to include more "traditional" FCS teams.

Please do at least a tiny bit of research before you post drivel as fact!

[Franks Tanks]

Wow, what boards are you reading? I think it may be called fantasy land....

Most PFL FANS firmly believe that we are an FCS conference. Most PFL FANS are not happy with the Gridiron Classic and think our champion should earn an automatic bid to the FCS playoffs! I hope you caught the note that Iona would have to make a BIG investment to come up to PFL levels!

PFL teams recruit DIVISION I Athletes. Don't believe me, check out this thread on a "real" PFL fan board:

http://www.udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6102

Most PFL teams have been working to upgrade future schedules to include more "traditional" FCS teams.

Please do at least a tiny bit of research before you post drivel as fact!


Flyer you do realize the kids put the schools of interest on the site themselves. 17 year old kids tend to exaggerate who they are being recruited by. Getting a few letters from a schools dont mean your being hotly recruited.

Secondly the most inportant piece is how may of these kids will attend Dayton. Face it not too many kids are going to choose Dayton over a MAC team, so if these kids are truely MAC recruits plan on not getting them.

[dgreco]

Wow, what boards are you reading? I think it may be called fantasy land....

Most PFL FANS firmly believe that we are an FCS conference. Most PFL FANS are not happy with the Gridiron Classic and think our champion should earn an automatic bid to the FCS playoffs! I hope you caught the note that Iona would have to make a BIG investment to come up to PFL levels!

PFL teams recruit DIVISION I Athletes. Don't believe me, check out this thread on a "real" PFL fan board:

http://www.udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6102

Most PFL teams have been working to upgrade future schedules to include more "traditional" FCS teams.

Please do at least a tiny bit of research before you post drivel as fact!

I think all you have to do is watch this video :

http://redfoxpostgameshow.blip.tv/file/704829

to see the PFL is a different entity. The President, the Coach, and the PFL all view the league as an alternative to regular FCS football

[gophoenix]

Wow, what boards are you reading? I think it may be called fantasy land....

Most PFL FANS firmly believe that we are an FCS conference. Most PFL FANS are not happy with the Gridiron Classic and think our champion should earn an automatic bid to the FCS playoffs! I hope you caught the note that Iona would have to make a BIG investment to come up to PFL levels!

PFL teams recruit DIVISION I Athletes. Don't believe me, check out this thread on a "real" PFL fan board:

http://www.udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6102

Most PFL teams have been working to upgrade future schedules to include more "traditional" FCS teams.

Please do at least a tiny bit of research before you post drivel as fact!

xrolleyesx

Whatever you say. A few programs (Dayton and maybe San Diego come to mind) treat it differently than the lot. The league, and schools, as a whole market the Pioneer League as an alternative to the way FCS is. Teams are run differently, teams are funded differently and recruits are given the chance to play coast to coast in league play as an incentive, as well as the bowl game. Upgrading your schedule to play more traditional teams does not change the what the facts are and what many Pioneer fans from the past few years believe.

I'm sorry that the truth of the matter is so offensive to you.

[aceinthehole]

I feel for the players, I really do, but the options are limited.

Join the Pioneer!!!!
Advantages: Remain non-scholly, partner with good academic schools, stable conference/schedule, access to bowl game (championship game in future years), can still play 1 or 2 $$$ games to fund the program.

Disadvantages: Travel costs and no "natural rivals."

Sorry, but the NEC isn't an option at all. We would never take Iona without a committment in resources to partial schollys and a firm commitment to keep the program by the administration. (Iona lacks both) We made that mistake once with St. John's - it won't happen again.

The PL will NEVER happen. Don't have the academics, $$$ or political will to play with those schools. Sorry :(

Indy is possible, but I don't think that works in the long term. Scheduling is very difficult (especially late in the year). The kids aren't palying for ANYTHING (weekly conference honors, championships, playoffs, etc).

Bottom line, the best thing for the school and the players is the Pioneer. No other feasable options exist for long term stability.

---
If they do drop the program, those kids have a real shot of playing at an NEC school. I think Albany took a few players when Siena dropped. I know its not fair, but hopefully those kids fall on their feet. Its sucks your administartion is garbage. The players deserve better!!!!

I hope you all do well.

[401ks]

I think all you have to do is watch this video :

http://redfoxpostgameshow.blip.tv/file/704829

to see the PFL is a different entity. The President, the Coach, and the PFL all view the league as an alternative to regular FCS football

Once again...

Huh?

I've watched this video. There is NOWHERE, at NO TIME during this press conference where "The President, the Coach, and the PFL all view the league as an alternative to regular FCS football".

The AD speaks about "like-minded institutions", but that is no different than, for example the Ivy League or the Patriot League who view themselves as "like-minded institutions".

The College President speaks about Marist athletes needing to be "Division I" athletes.

Regretably, near the end of the video the Coach refers to the old, discarded notion of "Mid-Major" football, but that silly notion used to include more than just the PFL.

This notion that the PFL is a "different entitity" than "regular" FCS football is a fallacy, and that notion is refuted in the referenced video.

[Franks Tanks]

I feel for the players, I really do, but the options are limited.

Join the Pioneer!!!!
Advantages: Remain non-scholly, partner with good academic schools, stable conference/schedule, access to bowl game (championship game in future years), can still play 1 or 2 $$$ games to fund the program.

Disadvantages: Travel costs and no "natural rivals."

Sorry, but the NEC isn't an option at all. We would never take Iona without a committment in resources to partial schollys and a firm commitment to keep the program by the administration. (Iona lacks both) We made that mistake once with St. John's - it won't happen again.

The PL will NEVER happen. Don't have the academics, $$$ or political will to play with those schools. Sorry :(

Indy is possible, but I don't think that works in the long term. Scheduling is very difficult (especially late in the year). The kids aren't palying for ANYTHING (weekly conference honors, championships, playoffs, etc).

Bottom line, the best thing for the school and the players is the Pioneer. No other feasable options exist for long term stability.

---
If they do drop the program, those kids have a real shot of playing at an NEC school. I think Albany took a few players when Siena dropped. I know its not fair, but hopefully those kids fall on their feet. Its sucks your administartion is garbage. The players deserve better!!!!

I hope you all do well.

Agree Pioneer seems to be the only option

[401ks]

xrolleyesx

Whatever you say. A few programs (Dayton and maybe San Diego come to mind) treat it differently than the lot. The league, and schools, as a whole market the Pioneer League as an alternative to the way FCS is. Teams are run differently, teams are funded differently and recruits are given the chance to play coast to coast in league play as an incentive, as well as the bowl game. Upgrading your schedule to play more traditional teams does not change the what the facts are and what many Pioneer fans from the past few years believe.

I'm sorry that the truth of the matter is so offensive to you.

As the father of a 2008 recruit who was heavily recruited by NEC, Patriot, Ivy, Pioneer, and a handful of FBS schools (and who turned down scholarship offers to attend Butler University) I can say without hesitation that it is NOT FACTUAL that "(t)he league, and schools, as a whole market the Pioneer League as an alternative to the way FCS is." (sic)


About everyone says it that is a Pioneer fan. They market it different. They president supports it differently. It is spun differently to recruits. Just do a quick search on this board for any explanation you need.

I have been an active "Pioneer fan" for the past year (even before my son decided on Butler), I have NEVER ONCE heard a "Pioneer fan" say that the PFL was "different" than the rest of the FCS. I'll be attending the Dayton - San Diego game on Saturday. There will be a few thousand Pioneer fans in attendance. Maybe I should try to find some of these folks of which you speak! xrolleyesx

I am VERY aware of how things are "spun" to recruits by numerous college football programs around the country. The only difference that my son and I saw with PFL programs is that the PFL coaches seemed to have a great deal more class and integrity! :D

I'd like to see somewhere on this board where a "Pioneer fan" has spoken of the PFL being "different". There are PFL detractors on this board who speak of things like that, but no Pioneer fans of which I am aware.

[danefan]

Completely OT of this thread, but the Pioneer is only different in the way that the Ivy is different. Pioneer and Ivy are almost identical in the way they provide aid and fund their programs. The only real difference is the Ivy's have never-ending money to throw around and PFL teams, for the most part, do not.

Other then that-no difference.

[401ks]

Yes, back on topic...

(I apologize for being a part of the thread hijacking. :o )

It would be a real shame for Iona to drop football.

On the other hand, I could not support the idea of Iona joining the Pioneer Football League without Iona making a FIRM, LONG-TERM commitment to their football program. The PFL is NOT a place for programs with marginal or questionable commitments to maintaining the highest possible level of (non-athletic scholarship) Division I football.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What is the difference between Wagner/Sacred Heart's spending and revenue on football, say, versus Iona's? Could an affiliate move to the NEC be sold as only a small increase in funding and a bunch of local games?

That's where I see Iona most likely going if they get the support, and it probably would be best for them. One or two "reach" games a year like guarantee games versus UND, Davis, UNH, Maine... one or two games against D-III games versus Stonehill, Pace or the like... maybe a yearly game vs. Marist... and a full NEC schedule, all bus rides, with rivalry games with Sacred Heart, Wagner, CCSU.

If Iona gets some nice guarantee games, couldn't this work? Maybe even a trip to an FBS school would give the program some cash to make it work.

[Franks Tanks]

What is the difference between Wagner/Sacred Heart's spending and revenue on football, say, versus Iona's? Could an affiliate move to the NEC be sold as only a small increase in funding and a bunch of local games?

That's where I see Iona most likely going if they get the support, and it probably would be best for them. One or two "reach" games a year like guarantee games versus UND, Davis, UNH, Maine... one or two games against D-III games versus Stonehill, Pace or the like... maybe a yearly game vs. Marist... and a full NEC schedule, all bus rides, with rivalry games with Sacred Heart, Wagner, CCSU.

If Iona gets some nice guarantee games, couldn't this work? Maybe even a trip to an FBS school would give the program some cash to make it work.

That may be murder. I do hope Iona football survives, the NY area needs to retain as many college football programs as possible. While it is good to see that are staying pretty competitive they did lose to Wesley college in Delaware recently-- not exactly a D-III power.

[DetroitFlyer]

I think all you have to do is watch this video :

http://redfoxpostgameshow.blip.tv/file/704829

to see the PFL is a different entity. The President, the Coach, and the PFL all view the league as an alternative to regular FCS football

I have not watched the video, but I have seen and heard the party line numerous times....

Here is the deal, there is no unique level of college football that is known as "The Pioneer Football League", regardless of what the powers that be in the PFL might say to the contrary.... Mercifully, the whole made up, "Mid-Major" nonsense seems to have died. No more, made up championships, no more made up All American teams, no more made up "rankings". The fact that many PFL teams, USD, Dayton, JU, MSU, Drake, Davidson and Butler are working to schedule more traditional FCS teams speaks volumes as to what the direction of the league is going....

If you want to think about where the PFL is going as a league, you would do well to think more Ivy League than anything else. I do see the PFL expanding again in the future. An expanded league will probably mean divisions and a league championship game for a "post season". Rest assured, however, that fans like me will continue to press the league for an automatic bid to the playoffs. I do get the feeling that progress is being made on this front, albeit slowly.

[aceinthehole]

What is the difference between Wagner/Sacred Heart's spending and revenue on football, say, versus Iona's? Could an affiliate move to the NEC be sold as only a small increase in funding and a bunch of local games?

That's where I see Iona most likely going if they get the support, and it probably would be best for them. One or two "reach" games a year like guarantee games versus UND, Davis, UNH, Maine... one or two games against D-III games versus Stonehill, Pace or the like... maybe a yearly game vs. Marist... and a full NEC schedule, all bus rides, with rivalry games with Sacred Heart, Wagner, CCSU.

If Iona gets some nice guarantee games, couldn't this work? Maybe even a trip to an FBS school would give the program some cash to make it work.

First, SHU/Wagner are spending a LOT more on football than Iona. Just the fact they give 20 schollys (at 30k each) is one big difference. Coaching staff is another HUGE difference. NEC schools have more FT coaches and pay more than Iona.

Sorry, but the NEC wants no part of Iona. Look at the press from Dusquene about their move to the NEC. They commited to schollys and facility improvemnets. Iona has no such plans. The administration doesn't want to subsidize the sport any longer.

FBS game for Iona???? Are you serious. LFN - sometimes you make comments that amaze me. First, Iona would get embarassed bad and it wouldn't be a bowl-eligible win for the FBS team. How many "non-counters" can get a FBS game? CCSU got one with Western Mich, but I can't even think of the last PL team to get a FBS game. If Lehigh can't get an FBS, how will Iona? That's crazy!!! Come back to the real world!

Sorry to be blunt, but Iona has 2 options - PFL or fold. That's the reality here.

[dgreco]

Once again...

Huh?

I've watched this video. There is NOWHERE, at NO TIME during this press conference where "The President, the Coach, and the PFL all view the league as an alternative to regular FCS football".

The AD speaks about "like-minded institutions", but that is no different than, for example the Ivy League or the Patriot League who view themselves as "like-minded institutions".

The College President speaks about Marist athletes needing to be "Division I" athletes.

Regretably, near the end of the video the Coach refers to the old, discarded notion of "Mid-Major" football, but that silly notion used to include more than just the PFL.

This notion that the PFL is a "different entitity" than "regular" FCS football is a fallacy, and that notion is refuted in the referenced video.
Okay, Again, the administration admit the NEC was not an option because of scholarships, the PL was not an option because of funding and the PFL was because it is unique that it is nonscholarship, and even though the playoffs are not an option they have the Gridiron classic. But they also said they are not sure what is going to happen with that so they hope to bring a championship game back to the PFL so the kids can continue the season.

Nothing in that video tells me that they are trying to compete nationally with other conferences. They look at hte PFL as its own league. It is coast to coast and at the end they participate in their own bowl/future championship game.

They also talk about how they are the only true Mid Major conference left in FCS and they pride in that. But yea the PFL is the same as every other conference. I would say they are falling more into the SWAC mold rather than the rest of FCS

[crusader11]

Campbell  Birmingham Southern (lost 12-6), Methodist (lost 32-21), Carthage (won 36-27)
Davidson  North Carolina Pembroke (lost 21-9), Lenoir-Rhyne (won 20-16)
Valparaiso  St. Francis (IL.) (lost 21-0), Concordia (WI) (won 34-10), Marian (lost 13-10)
Morehead State  Southern Virginia (won 49-6)
Drake  Upper Iowa (won 17-13), William Penn (won 36-0)
Jacksonville  North Carolina Pembroke (lost 22-21), Webber International (won 51-7)
San Diego  Azusa Pacific (won 38-10)
Butler  Albion (won 20-6), Franklin (lost 31-28), Hanover (postponed), Missouri S&T (won 41-15)
Dayton  Central State (won 31-12)
Many PFL teams are trying to schedule more traditional FCS teams, really? Wellllll, the fact that the PFL this year has played 19 games against sub-Division 1 opponents (many of these schools I have never even heard of, doesn’t really help verify your point. Also, not only are they choosing to play these teams, but they are losing to them as well. The PFL has lost 7, that is right, 7 games to the likes of Marian, Franklin, and other football juggernaut schools alike. North Carolina Pembroke has beaten 2 PFL teams this year, maybe they could be competitive in this joke of a league. The PFL has 2 teams that could at least hold their own against some FCS teams (Dayton and San Diego), the rest don’t belong in Division 1. Go play 7 on 7 football out in the cornfields of Iowa. The PFL is moving backwards…they are going nowhere near the same level of Ivy or Patriot League football.

[crusader11]

Campbell- Birmingham Southern (lost 12-6), Methodist (lost 32-21), Carthage (won 36-27)
Davidson- North Carolina Pembroke (lost 21-9), Lenoir-Rhyne (won 20-16)
Valparaiso- St. Francis (IL.) (lost 21-0), Concordia (WI) (won 34-10), Marian (lost 13-10)
Morehead State- Southern Virginia (won 49-6)
Drake- Upper Iowa (won 17-13), William Penn (won 36-0)
Jacksonville- North Carolina Pembroke (lost 22-21), Webber International (won 51-7)
San Diego- Azusa Pacific (won 38-10)
Butler- Albion (won 20-6), Franklin (lost 31-28), Hanover (postponed), Missouri S&T (won 41-15)
Dayton- Central State (won 31-12)
Many PFL teams are trying to schedule more traditional FCS teams, really? Wellllll, the fact that the PFL this year has played 19 games against sub-Division 1 opponents (many of these schools I have never even heard of, doesn’t really help verify your point. Also, not only are they choosing to play these teams, but they are losing to them as well. The PFL has lost 7, that is right, 7 games to the likes of Marian, Franklin, and other football juggernaut schools alike. North Carolina Pembroke has beaten 2 PFL teams this year, maybe they could be competitive in this joke of a league. The PFL has 2 teams that could at least hold their own against some FCS teams (Dayton and San Diego), the rest don’t belong in Division 1. Go play 7 on 7 football out in the cornfields of Iowa. The PFL is moving backwards…they are going nowhere near the same level of Ivy or Patriot League football.

[JD51]

I was hoping for an announcement that Iona would be joining the PFL with the possibility of the league splitting into divisions. It would be nice to keep the old MAAC rivalry with Marist alive.

I wish the program all the best. I'll send off an email in support of Iona keeping football.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

FBS game for Iona???? Are you serious. LFN - sometimes you make comments that amaze me. First, Iona would get embarassed bad and it wouldn't be a bowl-eligible win for the FBS team. How many "non-counters" can get a FBS game? CCSU got one with Western Mich, but I can't even think of the last PL team to get a FBS game. If Lehigh can't get an FBS, how will Iona? That's crazy!!! Come back to the real world!

Sorry to be blunt, but Iona has 2 options - PFL or fold. That's the reality here.

Let me clarify: I'm not saying NOW. I'm saying with a five-year plan in place, ramping up scholarships... a six-figure payday can help fund a football program - which I'm certain is what CCSU is planning to do, no?

The PL had FBS games in the late 90s and early 2000s (Lehigh beat FBS Buffalo in 2001, Colgate beat the Buffs in 02 and Lehigh played UConn in '03), but that stopped when the rule came out that wins over FCS 56 1/2 scholarship schools counted towards bowl eligibility. Now, Liberty and Norfolk State get those games, not PL schools.

Wagner and Sacred Heart have multiple sub-D-Is on their schedule this year, and they are ramping up scholarships. Surely that can be a blueprint for Iona as well? They can also get money games with UNH, UC Davis too - that seems to be what they're doing now.

[DetroitFlyer]

Campbell- Birmingham Southern (lost 12-6), Methodist (lost 32-21), Carthage (won 36-27)
Davidson- North Carolina Pembroke (lost 21-9), Lenoir-Rhyne (won 20-16)
Valparaiso- St. Francis (IL.) (lost 21-0), Concordia (WI) (won 34-10), Marian (lost 13-10)
Morehead State- Southern Virginia (won 49-6)
Drake- Upper Iowa (won 17-13), William Penn (won 36-0)
Jacksonville- North Carolina Pembroke (lost 22-21), Webber International (won 51-7)
San Diego- Azusa Pacific (won 38-10)
Butler- Albion (won 20-6), Franklin (lost 31-28), Hanover (postponed), Missouri S&T (won 41-15)
Dayton- Central State (won 31-12)
Many PFL teams are trying to schedule more traditional FCS teams, really? Wellllll, the fact that the PFL this year has played 19 games against sub-Division 1 opponents (many of these schools I have never even heard of, doesn’t really help verify your point. Also, not only are they choosing to play these teams, but they are losing to them as well. The PFL has lost 7, that is right, 7 games to the likes of Marian, Franklin, and other football juggernaut schools alike. North Carolina Pembroke has beaten 2 PFL teams this year, maybe they could be competitive in this joke of a league. The PFL has 2 teams that could at least hold their own against some FCS teams (Dayton and San Diego), the rest don’t belong in Division 1. Go play 7 on 7 football out in the cornfields of Iowa. The PFL is moving backwards…they are going nowhere near the same level of Ivy or Patriot League football.


Wow, you are really afraid of the progress being made in the PFL and the FACT that some PFL teams can hang with any FCS team in the country. I guess you will never recover from the FACT that Dayton defeated your champion last season! Frankly, it is almost comical.... I really hate to believe that you are either a student or graduate of Holy Cross as I always thought that school turned out good people. I will continue to give the school the benefit of the doubt and just assume that you are an exception.

[Franks Tanks]

Wow, you are really afraid of the progress being made in the PFL and the FACT that some PFL teams can hang with any FCS team in the country. I guess you will never recover from the FACT that Dayton defeated your champion last season! Frankly, it is almost comical.... I really hate to believe that you are either a student or graduate of Holy Cross as I always thought that school turned out good people. I will continue to give the school the benefit of the doubt and just assume that you are an exception.


Flyer, you still cling to one game to prop up your agruements rather then using the whole body of work. Yes you beat the PL champs Fordham last year, nice win, and that was a down year for the PL. This year you beat Fordham again, congrats. But that is the same Fordham team that Lafayette blew out 48-13 with our 4th string RB.

You are actually the one who refuses to believe the facts and clings to one game. There are some good teams in the PFL and some dreadful ones. However, top to bottom the PL and Ivy and still notably better then the PFL. Sorry

[Franks Tanks]

Let me clarify: I'm not saying NOW. I'm saying with a five-year plan in place, ramping up scholarships... a six-figure payday can help fund a football program - which I'm certain is what CCSU is planning to do, no?

The PL had FBS games in the late 90s and early 2000s (Lehigh beat FBS Buffalo in 2001, Colgate beat the Buffs in 02 and Lehigh played UConn in '03), but that stopped when the rule came out that wins over FCS 56 1/2 scholarship schools counted towards bowl eligibility. Now, Liberty and Norfolk State get those games, not PL schools.

Wagner and Sacred Heart have multiple sub-D-Is on their schedule this year, and they are ramping up scholarships. Surely that can be a blueprint for Iona as well? They can also get money games with UNH, UC Davis too - that seems to be what they're doing now.

Can a game at UNH or even Cal-Davis really be a money game. These programs dont make money of football either, I doubt they are dolling out a few hundred grand to Iona.

[aceinthehole]

Let me clarify: I'm not saying NOW. I'm saying with a five-year plan in place, ramping up scholarships... a six-figure payday can help fund a football program - which I'm certain is what CCSU is planning to do, no?

The PL had FBS games in the late 90s and early 2000s (Lehigh beat FBS Buffalo in 2001, Colgate beat the Buffs in 02 and Lehigh played UConn in '03), but that stopped when the rule came out that wins over FCS 56 1/2 scholarship schools counted towards bowl eligibility. Now, Liberty and Norfolk State get those games, not PL schools.

Wagner and Sacred Heart have multiple sub-D-Is on their schedule this year, and they are ramping up scholarships. Surely that can be a blueprint for Iona as well? They can also get money games with UNH, UC Davis too - that seems to be what they're doing now.

I always understood your point - but it just isn't realistic. How can Iona get a 6-figure payday when they don't have the equivs to even schedule the game??? You make no sense!

First, I know CCSU got lucky. But I don't know of many "non-counters" getting a FBS game, since the rule change you cited. Some, FBS schools have been stuck playing 2 I-AA teams in the same season, so 1 opponents is a defacto "non-counter" (see Hawaii, Texas Tech), but that it. It doesn't make sense for an FBS team to schedule non-couners.

CCSU is raising money to endow funds for FB schollys. Its taking a while, but we also have the advantage of in-state tuition, so we have it much easier than a private school like Iona or Lehigh. Maybe we by some video equip with the check from the DSU game. But we are not subsidizing our operating costs with $$$ games. That what Iona is doing now with games vs. UNH, etc.

Look at the evidence and statements from Iona administrators. Its no different than what we heard from Siena, Fairfield, St. Peters, and LaSalle. They have no interest in investing any more funds into football, period. Its as clear as the sun rising in the East.

Sorry to be so brutal, but they aren't willing to invest ANY money into football and that program has limited options - PFL or fold.

Wagner and SHU were trying to schedule WINS, period. They can afford an all FCS schedule, but they wanted to pad the record. Its no different than what any FCS school does, they just have to reach much lower to get the win (much like PFL teams).

Wagner doesn't need the $40k from UNH, but Iona does. Wagner rather try to get a win vs a D-II, than the paycheck from the Wildcats. That's the logic there.

You may want to keep the Iona program cus you feel bad for the kids (I do too), but its just not feasable. I rather see the program fold and have those kids transfer to schools that will support them.

[crusader11]

Wow, you are really afraid of the progress being made in the PFL and the FACT that some PFL teams can hang with any FCS team in the country. I guess you will never recover from the FACT that Dayton defeated your champion last season! Frankly, it is almost comical.... I really hate to believe that you are either a student or graduate of Holy Cross as I always thought that school turned out good people. I will continue to give the school the benefit of the doubt and just assume that you are an exception.

Progress? Where, exactly, is this progress? Ah yes, beating Webber International...I guess there it is.

[401ks]

You are actually the one who refuses to believe the facts and clings to one game. There are some good teams in the PFL and some dreadful ones. However, top to bottom the PL and Ivy and still notably better then the PFL. Sorry

I don't wish to attempt to speak for DetroitFlyer. He is more than capable of doing that for himself.

However...

DF was simply defending the PFL against some pretty snarky comments made by our friend from Holy Cross.

I did not see DF say that the entire PFL is better than the PL or Ivy. What he said was, "Wow, you are really afraid of the progress being made in the PFL and the FACT that some PFL teams can hang with any FCS team in the country." "Some...can hang with" does not mean "the PFL is better than".

As a fan of, and the father of a new player on, a PFL team that WAS one of those "dreadful" PFL teams of which you speak I have to agree with both you and DF. The PFL has a way to go, but the improvement is coming.

As any real college football fan knows, schedules are set YEARS in advance. Games like Albion and Missouri S&T on Butler's schedule are (reportedly) history. The talk around Butler revolves around future opponents like UNI in 2010, Ivy League programs, and other "full scholarship" programs. San Diego has lined up numerous Ivy League games stretching many years into the future. Jacksonville took on Appalachian State this year. Even Valpo is looking to pull their heads out of the sand and schedule more DI programs after publically decrying them a few years back.

The crap from our Holy Cross friend doesn't even merit comment. xnonono2x

[Franks Tanks]

I don't wish to attempt to speak for DetroitFlyer. He is more than capable of doing that for himself.

However...

DF was simply defending the PFL against some pretty snarky comments made by our friend from Holy Cross.

I did not see DF say that the entire PFL is better than the PL or Ivy. What he said was, "Wow, you are really afraid of the progress being made in the PFL and the FACT that some PFL teams can hang with any FCS team in the country." "Some...can hang with" does not mean "the PFL is better than".

As a fan of, and the father of a new player on, a PFL team that WAS one of those "dreadful" PFL teams of which you speak I have to agree with both you and DF. The PFL has a way to go, but the improvement is coming.

As any real college football fan knows, schedules are set YEARS in advance. Games like Albion and Missouri S&T on Butler's schedule are (reportedly) history. The talk around Butler revolves around future opponents like UNI in 2010, Ivy League programs, and other "full scholarship" programs. San Diego has lined up numerous Ivy League games stretching many years into the future. Jacksonville took on Appalachian State this year. Even Valpo is looking to pull their heads out of the sand and schedule more DI programs after publically decrying them a few years back.

The crap from our Holy Cross friend doesn't even merit comment. xnonono2x

Crusader 11 is just mad because the Cross hasnt won a PL championship in almost 20 years. What you are saying makes a lot of sense, and I dont doubt that the PFL has some quality teams. When the schedules revert away from D-III's your league wil gain much more respect. Playing multiple d-III's a year just screams that you align more closely with them.

The PFL being better comments arent from Flyers current post, just some of his past ones.

[401ks]

When the schedules revert away from D-III's your league wil gain much more respect. Playing multiple d-III's a year just screams that you align more closely with them.

I absolutely agree.

I have no problem with one sub-DI opponent each season. It's a great way to stimulate local interest and allow a lower-division team the opportunity to "play up". (If programs did not "play down", no one could ever "play up"!) I think that it's a great idea for Butler (for example) to play one of the Indiana colleges like Franklin or Hanover each year. Just not more than one! (And make sure that you don't lose! :o )

[Franks Tanks]

I absolutely agree.

I have no problem with one sub-DI opponent each season. It's a great way to stimulate local interest and allow a lower-division team the opportunity to "play up". (If programs did not "play down", no one could ever "play up"!) I think that it's a great idea for Butler (for example) to play one of the Indiana colleges like Franklin or Hanover each year. Just not more than one! (And make sure that you don't lose! :o )

Agree

[WildPard]

Crusader--please get off your high horse. While I don't claim to be the expert, I think I am in a position to fairly and accurately judge the level of both the PL and PFL. The PFL is much closer to the talent level of the athletes and teams found in the PL than the PL is to the level found in the CAA or SOCON. First, don't use Campbell as an example--this is their first season in over 50 years. Second, don't sell Pembroke ( DII scholarships with over 15 DI transfers this year)-I'd take them over Georgetown and Bucknell any day. San Diego, Dayton, Jacksonville, Morehead, Davidson, and Butler are better than Georgetown and Bucknell, and on an even par with Fordham and this year's Lehigh team. At the top of the conferences, I'd say San Diego and Dayton would play HC, Lafayette, and Colgate pretty even.
There is not as much of a gap-if there is any at all-between the teams as some of the people from the PL seem to think and I think it's been growing closer and closer.

[Franks Tanks]

Crusader--please get off your high horse. While I don't claim to be the expert, I think I am in a position to fairly and accurately judge the level of both the PL and PFL. The PFL is much closer to the talent level of the athletes and teams found in the PL than the PL is to the level found in the CAA or SOCON. First, don't use Campbell as an example--this is their first season in over 50 years. Second, don't sell Pembroke ( DII scholarships with over 15 DI transfers this year)-I'd take them over Georgetown and Bucknell any day. San Diego, Dayton, Jacksonville, Morehead, Davidson, and Butler are better than Georgetown and Bucknell, and on an even par with Fordham and this year's Lehigh team. At the top of the conferences, I'd say San Diego and Dayton would play HC, Lafayette, and Colgate pretty even.
There is not as much of a gap-if there is any at all-between the teams as some of the people from the PL seem to think and I think it's been growing closer and closer.


I believe the gap is greater then you present here. Drake was clearly overpowered and outmanned vs Lehigh. The score would'nt have been as close if the game wasnt played in a monsoon.

As for Bucknell and Georgetown I dont know what to say. Keep an eye on Marist these next few weeks. They will play Fordham, Georgetown, and Davidson to end the season. Bucknell only beat em by a few points, which means I am disturbed Bucknell is at that level.

[hebmskebm]

Wow, there are players on Iona's roster who are transfers from LaSalle and St. Peter's. Can you imagine having your football team fold on you twice?

In all honesty, the writing's on the wall for Iona. They are unwilling to pony up for even the modest upgrades needed to be competetive in the NEC or even the PFL. And an Indy schedule that exixts solely to cover operating costs with money beatdowns all over the country just is not sustainable in the long run.

[DetroitFlyer]

I believe the gap is greater then you present here. Drake was clearly overpowered and outmanned vs Lehigh. The score would'nt have been as close if the game wasnt played in a monsoon.

As for Bucknell and Georgetown I dont know what to say. Keep an eye on Marist these next few weeks. They will play Fordham, Georgetown, and Davidson to end the season. Bucknell only beat em by a few points, which means I am disturbed Bucknell is at that level.

Are you even trying? Lehigh and Drake played in exactly the same conditions.... Do you recall the final score? Wait, please do not let the facts get in your way.... Maybe you did not actually speak with any of the Lehigh fans....

Here is what an intelligent Lehigh fan that actually attended the game, posted on our PFL board, (just for your benefit):

"Lehigh does appear to be bigger and more physical, but not by much. Drake could compete OK in the Patriot League from what I saw, probably mid to lower half of the standings if they did."

Yeah, I understand that you are scared and frustrated that the PFL is getting better and that some of the PFL teams can hang with ANY FCS team. Get over it and get used to it!

[Franks Tanks]

Are you even trying? Lehigh and Drake played in exactly the same conditions.... Do you recall the final score? Wait, please do not let the facts get in your way.... Maybe you did not actually speak with any of the Lehigh fans....

Here is what an intelligent Lehigh fan that actually attended the game, posted on our PFL board, (just for your benefit):

"Lehigh does appear to be bigger and more physical, but not by much. Drake could compete OK in the Patriot League from what I saw, probably mid to lower half of the standings if they did."

Yeah, I understand that you are scared and frustrated that the PFL is getting better and that some of the PFL teams can hang with ANY FCS team. Get over it and get used to it!

The score was 19-0, and I watched most of the game on TV with my own eyes..did you see the game? I would put my knowledge of line play against anyone on this board and I was watching the line closely. I will be clear Drake's line is small and slow and not good at all (that is O and D). I could walk out there with my gimpy knee and teach those kids a lesson xlolx. A 2-5 Lehigh team just buried and abused Drake as they were running the ball. They would have broke many large runs if the field conditions werent abysmal. Yes, Drake may have had some big plays as well in better weather, but the diffefence in size and power was clear, not close as you mention.

[WildPard]

The score was 19-0, and I watched most of the game on TV with my own eyes..did you see the game? I would put my knowledge of line play against anyone on this board and I was watching the line closely. I will be clear Drake's line is small and slow and not good at all (that is O and D). I could walk out there with my gimpy knee and teach those kids a lesson xlolx. A 2-5 Lehigh team just buried and abused Drake as they were running the ball. They would have broke many large runs if the field conditions werent abysmal. Yes, Drake may have had some big plays as well in better weather, but the diffefence in size and power was clear, not close as you mention.

Frank. let me get this straight. Drake's "small and slow and not good at all" offensive and defensive lines negated the clearly superior "size and power" of Lehigh. It was a close game and both played under similar conditions. A 19-0 win at home- Drake wasn't nearly "buried and abused". I'd put my knowledge of line play up against anyone on this board, too. The main difference between PL linemen and PFL linemen is that those in the PL were too slow to play at a higher level and those in the PFL were not big enough. It's relatively easy to get bigger, but getting quicker is another story. Dayton's relatively small O-line would rank as the best unit in the PL--they reminded me of the great Navy lines under Paul Johnson.

[Seawolf97]

how about a good D2 conf.?

They are rebuilding a pretty strong basketball team which rules at Iona. Cant play D2 football while competing in D1 hoops. I dont think they will
fit in the NEC since that conference is going to 40 scholarships over the next few years. Its the PFL or nothing.xcoffeex

[bison137]

The score was 19-0, and I watched most of the game on TV with my own eyes..did you see the game? I would put my knowledge of line play against anyone on this board and I was watching the line closely. I will be clear Drake's line is small and slow and not good at all (that is O and D). I could walk out there with my gimpy knee and teach those kids a lesson xlolx. A 2-5 Lehigh team just buried and abused Drake as they were running the ball. They would have broke many large runs if the field conditions werent abysmal. Yes, Drake may have had some big plays as well in better weather, but the diffefence in size and power was clear, not close as you mention.



By the way, a few stats from that game:

First downs: LU 14, Drake 7
Rushing yards: LU 152, Drake 7
Passing: LU 9-12 146 yards, Drake 12-32 118 yards

In addition to the monsoon (Tropical Storm Hanna) making it hard to move the ball, LU shot themselves in the foot with 6 fumbles - 4 of which were lost.


It's pretty clear Lehigh was not trying real hard to score in the second half - with a 13-point lead and an opponent who was unlikely to get to 7 points. In the half, LU ran the ball 24 straight times, then tried one pass, and then ran 7 more times. Totals for the second half: 31 rushes, one pass.

[Model Citizen]

Isn't a little ridiculous to be debating the strength of the PFL when the league is admitting first year programs?

San Diego is missing a quarter of its lineup, and Drake has beaten one PFL team not named Campbell. Dayton is as good as it gets for the Pioneer this season.

[Franks Tanks]

Frank. let me get this straight. Drake's "small and slow and not good at all" offensive and defensive lines negated the clearly superior "size and power" of Lehigh. It was a close game and both played under similar conditions. A 19-0 win at home- Drake wasn't nearly "buried and abused". I'd put my knowledge of line play up against anyone on this board, too. The main difference between PL linemen and PFL linemen is that those in the PL were too slow to play at a higher level and those in the PFL were not big enough. It's relatively easy to get bigger, but getting quicker is another story. Dayton's relatively small O-line would rank as the best unit in the PL--they reminded me of the great Navy lines under Paul Johnson.

Ok, where to begin. First please refer to Bison 137's post. Drake rushed for 7 yards all game. Lehigh threw the ball once all second haf and fumbled several times. Despite this they still won 19-0. The Lehigh o-line pushed Drake all over the place and the Drake o-line got little surge. Hence Drake throwing the ball a ton. Oh, did I mention Lehigh is currently 2-5.

"The main difference between PL linemen and PFL linemen is that those in the PL were too slow to play at a higher level and those in the PFL were not big enough'

That is an incredible generalization. Both the PL and PFL, and all of FCS for that matter, have linemen who are a tad to slow, too small, or not athletic enough. The only generalization I know is that overall the PL has better linemen then the PFL. Also the specific type of lineman recruited by each school is dictated by the offense they run and the philiosphy of the coach. Some coaches like huge masher types thar arent super athletic. Other coaches like quick agressive guys who may be a tad undersized. Of course you would like both attributes in a linemen, but not always possible. The schools in the PL have a mix of styles. Bucknell for example has smaller, quicker linemen. Lafayette and Colgate have superb O-lines, thay are actually both big and athletic -- just incredible. Lafayette's Bob Heffner is one of the best O-line coaches in the country at any level, he gets it done. Colgate just smashes the ball down opponents throats, so hard to do and so impressive.

Does Dayton have a good O-line? I am sure they do, but I havent seen them so I dont know. What I do know is that Lafayette and Colgate have as good of an O-line as anyone in the country. If you think Dayton's O-line is that good feel free to make that assumption.

[DetroitFlyer]

By the way, a few stats from that game:

First downs: LU 14, Drake 7
Rushing yards: LU 152, Drake 7
Passing: LU 9-12 146 yards, Drake 12-32 118 yards

In addition to the monsoon (Tropical Storm Hanna) making it hard to move the ball, LU shot themselves in the foot with 6 fumbles - 4 of which were lost.


It's pretty clear Lehigh was not trying real hard to score in the second half - with a 13-point lead and an opponent who was unlikely to get to 7 points. In the half, LU ran the ball 24 straight times, then tried one pass, and then ran 7 more times. Totals for the second half: 31 rushes, one pass.


Dream on pal!

[Franks Tanks]

Dream on pal!

Did you watch the game? Lehigh didnt try to throw the ball down the field once the entire second half. They just ran the ball to run out the clock and avoid turnovers. They would have passed more the once in the second half if they were running their normal offense.

[WildPard]

I'm sure Drake apprecited that Lehigh was "not trying real hard to score in the second half" after lighting up the scoreboard with all of 13 in the first half.

[WildPard]

I'm sure Drake appreciated that Lehigh "was not trying real hard to score in the second half" after lighting up the scoreboard with 13 in the first half.

[Franks Tanks]

I'm sure Drake appreciated that Lehigh "was not trying real hard to score in the second half" after lighting up the scoreboard with 13 in the first half.

I thought you claim to know football? The game was played in an absolute Monsoon, I had a pond in my backyard that day. It was difficult to move the ball through the air for either side. Lehigh was running the ball well and Drake was not. Therefore Lehigh knew the only way they would lose is too turn the ball over. This is why Lehigh didnt pass at all--why risk it when you can hold the ball and win the game. The game was played in poor conditions.

[Bogus Megapardus]

What does this have to do with Iona's football program?

[Franks Tanks]

Check post 37 Detroit Flyer brought it up. Anyway the best discussions usually spring from another discussion-roll with it.

[DetroitFlyer]

What does this have to do with Iona's football program?


Well, most fans probably believe that Iona's best hope for maintaining a football program is the PFL. Anytime a discussion involving the PFL crops up on AGS, there are a number of posters that choose to talk about the league in a manner that most PFL fans find offensive. As a result, we PFL fans end up defending our league. Sorry state of affairs that the very same people that love to disparage FBS for looking down on FCS, engage in the same activity relative to an FCS league. Hard to figure out what motivates people to have to put down a team or league to make themselves feel better. Maybe they have been on steroids too long and certain body parts have diminished in size.... I honestly do not know, but it is truly sad....

The PFL would be a good home for Iona, but Iona would have to make a significant commitment and investment to upgrade to the PFL. It seems as though they would prefer to drop the program rather than upgrading to PFL standards.... As a PFL fan, I would welcome the addition of Iona. I hope that they choose to keep the program and join our great conference!

[Franks Tanks]

Well, most fans probably believe that Iona's best hope for maintaining a football program is the PFL. Anytime a discussion involving the PFL crops up on AGS, there are a number of posters that choose to talk about the league in a manner that most PFL fans find offensive. As a result, we PFL fans end up defending our league. Sorry state of affairs that the very same people that love to disparage FBS for looking down on FCS, engage in the same activity relative to an FCS league. Hard to figure out what motivates people to have to put down a team or league to make themselves feel better. Maybe they have been on steroids too long and certain body parts have diminished in size.... I honestly do not know, but it is truly sad....

The PFL would be a good home for Iona, but Iona would have to make a significant commitment and investment to upgrade to the PFL. It seems as though they would prefer to drop the program rather than upgrading to PFL standards.... As a PFL fan, I would welcome the addition of Iona. I hope that they choose to keep the program and join our great conference!

Your inferiority complex is tiring. You grasp at a straw or two instead of looking at all the facts objectively. I have said many times I think Dayton and San Diego play good football on a consistent basis. The other teams in your league dont fit into that category IMO. They may be getting therte but thet are not there yet.

Also you attack me for being on steriods (what a lark) and being slow witted. xlolx When in fact you are the one that constantly ignores logic and fact to make your assertations. Please move on

[WildPard]

I thought you claim to know football? The game was played in an absolute Monsoon, I had a pond in my backyard that day. It was difficult to move the ball through the air for either side. Lehigh was running the ball well and Drake was not. Therefore Lehigh knew the only way they would lose is too turn the ball over. This is why Lehigh didnt pass at all--why risk it when you can hold the ball and win the game. The game was played in poor conditions.

Frank, there is just a slight difference between holding the ball, pounding it on the ground, and running the clock as you state compared to the "trying real hard not to score" bs put out in the earlier post I quoted. Are you a Lafayette grad--if so, what year?

[Franks Tanks]

Frank, there is just a slight difference between holding the ball, pounding it on the ground, and running the clock as you state compared to the "trying real hard not to score" bs put out in the earlier post I quoted. Are you a Lafayette grad--if so, what year?

Yes-2003-- Ok that is fair. Yes they were of cousre attempting to score at a base level, they were being very, very conservative.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Dream on pal!


Did you watch the game? Lehigh didnt try to throw the ball down the field once the entire second half. They just ran the ball to run out the clock and avoid turnovers. They would have passed more the once in the second half if they were running their normal offense.

In the press box, we were joking that we could pick the plays since they were so predictable in the second half of that game. Even coach Coen admitted in the postgame press conferene that he only "called two or three different plays" in the second half to protect the team and the playbook against Villanova the following week.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The PFL would be a good home for Iona, but Iona would have to make a significant commitment and investment to upgrade to the PFL. It seems as though they would prefer to drop the program rather than upgrading to PFL standards.... As a PFL fan, I would welcome the addition of Iona. I hope that they choose to keep the program and join our great conference!

I agree with that. If Iona wants to commit to non-scholarship football, they would have a rivalry (Marist) and would still be able to schedule local programs (Pace, Stonehill, etc) in that setup.

However, I still think the NEC is a better option if they could spend just a bit more money. If St. Francis, Sacred Heart and Wagner can do it, why can't Iona? The savings on travel may, just may, offset the extra expense of the schollies.

BTW, if the NEC were still a limited grant-in-aid conference, I think Iona would be in the NEC now.

Here's something else to think about. What if Albany, CCSU and perhaps others jump ship to, say, a new Yankee Conference? Would Monmouth, Duquesne, RMU or others fight hard to keep scholarships - or might they revert to limited grants and the "Gridiron Classic"? That's something to think about in this scenario.

[bison137]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bison137
By the way, a few stats from that game:

First downs: LU 14, Drake 7
Rushing yards: LU 152, Drake 7
Passing: LU 9-12 146 yards, Drake 12-32 118 yards

In addition to the monsoon (Tropical Storm Hanna) making it hard to move the ball, LU shot themselves in the foot with 6 fumbles - 4 of which were lost.


It's pretty clear Lehigh was not trying real hard to score in the second half - with a 13-point lead and an opponent who was unlikely to get to 7 points. In the half, LU ran the ball 24 straight times, then tried one pass, and then ran 7 more times. Totals for the second half: 31 rushes, one pass.



Dream on pal!



What a bizarre response! I post stats - fully objective - and you respond "dream on" because the stats don't fit with your inaccurate view of what happened in that game.

If you think any of those stats are inaccurate - including the fact that Lehigh did nothing but run the ball on every play of the second half - go back and check the box score.

[letsgopards04]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bison137
By the way, a few stats from that game:

First downs: LU 14, Drake 7
Rushing yards: LU 152, Drake 7
Passing: LU 9-12 146 yards, Drake 12-32 118 yards

In addition to the monsoon (Tropical Storm Hanna) making it hard to move the ball, LU shot themselves in the foot with 6 fumbles - 4 of which were lost.


It's pretty clear Lehigh was not trying real hard to score in the second half - with a 13-point lead and an opponent who was unlikely to get to 7 points. In the half, LU ran the ball 24 straight times, then tried one pass, and then ran 7 more times. Totals for the second half: 31 rushes, one pass.






What a bizarre response! I post stats - fully objective - and you respond "dream on" because the stats don't fit with your inaccurate view of what happened in that game.

If you think any of those stats are inaccurate - including the fact that Lehigh did nothing but run the ball on every play of the second half - go back and check the box score.

You aren't gonna win. In the eyes of DF, two good teams makes the PFL a top flight conference and the PL is mediocre because Dayton beat Fordham.

[crusader11]

Yes, Iona would be a good fit for the PFL. No disrespect to them, but they are one of the worst teams in the FCS right now, so it would make logical sense for them to join the worst conference. At least they could pick up some wins against Albion and Marian.

[Go...gate]

Well, most fans probably believe that Iona's best hope for maintaining a football program is the PFL. Anytime a discussion involving the PFL crops up on AGS, there are a number of posters that choose to talk about the league in a manner that most PFL fans find offensive. As a result, we PFL fans end up defending our league. Sorry state of affairs that the very same people that love to disparage FBS for looking down on FCS, engage in the same activity relative to an FCS league. Hard to figure out what motivates people to have to put down a team or league to make themselves feel better. Maybe they have been on steroids too long and certain body parts have diminished in size.... I honestly do not know, but it is truly sad....

The PFL would be a good home for Iona, but Iona would have to make a significant commitment and investment to upgrade to the PFL. It seems as though they would prefer to drop the program rather than upgrading to PFL standards.... As a PFL fan, I would welcome the addition of Iona. I hope that they choose to keep the program and join our great conference!

Bingo. Iona would retain its program and local rivalries (Fordham, Columbia, Wagner, Marist, Bryant, etc.) to control travel costs and could play conference opponents with a similar philosophy. How much of an upgrade are you talking? They have put a fair amount into their program in the past 7-8 years.

[aceinthehole]

Bingo. Iona would retain its program and local rivalries (Fordham, Columbia, Wagner, Marist, Bryant, etc.) to control travel costs and could play conference opponents with a similar philosophy. How much of an upgrade are you talking? They have put a fair amount into their program in the past 7-8 years.

No. Iona currently spend just $358k on football, 30% less than former MAAC teams Marist and Duquense. The average NEC teams spend $1 million a year.

LFN - just look at what the the leadership at Iona is saying and doing. There is no reason to think they will invest anything into football.

Sorry, but the writing is on the wall here. I hope the players get to transfer to other schools and get the NCAA waiver. This program has been dying due to the administrations lack of support. Its the same story we've seen from Siena, Fairfiled, St. Peter's, and LaSalle.

[Model Citizen]

Hey, Crusader...when is your team going to play USD again?

Can't wait.

[401ks]

Hey, Crusader...when is your team going to play USD again?

Can't wait.

I didn't know that Holy Cross and San Diego had played until I read your post and checked the history.

xreadx

Two games.

Two San Diego victories.

xthumbsupx

[aceinthehole]

I agree with that. If Iona wants to commit to non-scholarship football, they would have a rivalry (Marist) and would still be able to schedule local programs (Pace, Stonehill, etc) in that setup.

However, I still think the NEC is a better option if they could spend just a bit more money. If St. Francis, Sacred Heart and Wagner can do it, why can't Iona? The savings on travel may, just may, offset the extra expense of the schollies.

WRONG! Do you still not have enough evidence to predict what happens next to Iona??

Here is a great and well-researched article from a St. Joe's student newspaper on the demise of football at small D-I colleges (former MAAC football teams). Sorry, but I hope Liberty has plans to find a replacement on its schedule becasue I very much doubt Iona will field a team for long.

http://media.www.sjuhawknews.com/media/storage/paper763/news/2008/10/15/Sports/Assessing.The.College.Football.Landscape.Football. Programs.A.Dying.Breed.At.Smal-3486741.shtml

Canisius

The decision to discontinue the football program at Canisius was part of a larger overhaul of a financially and physically overstretched athletic department in a state of flux at the time. It was one of eight programs cut, along with men's rifle, men's and women's indoor and outdoor track, and men's and women's tennis (men's swimming was added at the same time to meet Division I minimum requirements).

The financial necessity of the move was one of the factors that was able to overshadow the history of the program.

Fairfield

The decision at Fairfield was made largely on financial grounds, as budgetary reductions had become necessary in both the athletic department and the university as a whole.

"The one most compelling reason was the finances of the program," said Eugene Doris, director of athletics at Fairfield since 1994.

Siena

The collapse of football at Fairfield and Canisius, both members of the MAAC, would soon trigger a domino-effect for the other members of the conference. Scheduling games in a cost-effective manner in accordance with NCAA regulations became much more challenging. These factors all contributed to a reduction in the profile of the conference for prospective recruits and a subsequent reduction of the quality of play on the field.

It became inevitable that more programs would fall victim to this mounting pressure, and the next domino to fall after the 2003 season was Siena.

Unlike the discontinuation of other programs before it, the state of the MAAC became one of the driving forces in the decision to end football at Siena. While Canisius and Fairfield sent multiple sports to the chopping block, Siena was able to cut just football, leaving 18 other varsity programs intact.

St. Peter's

It would take several years before another MAAC football team was discontinued, but the ax fell again after the 2006 season with the fall of St. Peter's football.

The difficulties of the conference had become too great to overcome for the Peacocks. With MAAC football barely meeting the minimum requirements set by the NCAA for its conferences, scheduling became increasingly difficult, as the competitiveness of teams in the league waned. Officially, the university cited "concern for its athletes and difficulty remaining competitive," as well as issues in scheduling and recruiting.

"We had studied the issue of football, and St. Peter's [had] a long history of football," said Eileen Poiani, Ph.D., vice president for student affairs at St. Peter's. "We were studying it because the MAAC unfortunately was deteriorating in terms of football. As the league changed, the number of teams within the sphere of non-scholarship football teams kept decreasing and decreasing and decreasing. Although we did consider joining other leagues, many of those other leagues are those that grant scholarships. We were not in a position to offer scholarships."

In addition to the problems presented by the conference, St. Peter's was hampered by a less than ideal situation with respect to the availability of fields and training facilities.

LaSalle

This decision was not financially motivated, as the program did show stability on and off the field in its existence, including back-to-back winning seasons in 2001 and 2002 to highlight a 35-76 record over its 10 year existence.

But for the Explorers, as with many of their predecessors, the strain of playing a competitive, financially-feasible schedule against teams in a similar situation as themselves became a virtual impossibility under the current circumstances without putting excess strain on the university's other 19 varsity programs.

"This was a very difficult decision, and I announce it with a real sense of disappointment," said Tom Brennan, Ed.D., director of athletics and recreation, in the press release from 2007. "However, the steady dissolution of the MAAC Football League and the changing landscape of collegiate football have negatively affected our program and led us to this decision. This decision was not the result of the performance of our team, nor is it a reflection on the team and the young men who have competed for La Salle."

[Seawolf97]

WRONG! Do you still not have enough evidence to predict what happens next to Iona??

Here is a great and well-researched article from a St. Joe's student newspaper on the demise of football at small D-I colleges (former MAAC football teams). Sorry, but I hope Liberty has plans to find a replacement on its schedule becasue I very much doubt Iona will field a team for long.

http://media.www.sjuhawknews.com/media/storage/paper763/news/2008/10/15/Sports/Assessing.The.College.Football.Landscape.Football. Programs.A.Dying.Breed.At.Smal-3486741.shtml

Canisius


Fairfield


Siena


St. Peter's


LaSalle

So ot is writtenxnonono2x

[downbythebeach]

I wonder how much longer St. Francis U has.....

this year certainly has not been a good sign for the program...they just cannot put people in the seats or points on the board

[danefan]

I wonder how much longer St. Francis U has.....

this year certainly has not been a good sign for the program...they just cannot put people in the seats or points on the board

I don't think they are going anywhere. According to the folks at Albany, St. Francis has made quite a large financial commitment to football. Whether or not its a healthy operation for the school that size and in that location to be DI in athletics is questionable, but as long as they are I see them keeping football.

[Pards Rule]

Isnt Iona playing Maine today? Friends of mine with a son who is on Maine team and who were going to Orono said they were playing Iona and I was like thinking why is Iona playing Maine?

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Isnt Iona playing Maine today? Friends of mine with a son who is on Maine team and who were going to Orono said they were playing Iona and I was like thinking why is Iona playing Maine?

Because I ran into the Iona team in the Charlton rest area on the Mass. Turnpike on Friday, I know that it was a bus game for Iona. I'm making a SWAG that Maine paid the travel expenses for Iona and maybe threw in a little change for good measure.

Iona seems to have had a scheduling philosophy of providing a couple of challenge games each season. They've played at UNH twice, at Cal Poly, at UC Davis, at Maine, etc. right off the top of my head.

They could probably play St. Francis PA, Robert Morris or Duquesne, but would have to pay their travel expenses. So why not opt for a similar long trip and get your expenses paid?

[dgreco]

Because I ran into the Iona team in the Charlton rest area on the Mass. Turnpike on Friday, I know that it was a bus game for Iona. I'm making a SWAG that Maine paid the travel expenses for Iona and maybe threw in a little change for good measure.

Iona seems to have had a scheduling philosophy of providing a couple of challenge games each season. They've played at UNH twice, at Cal Poly, at UC Davis, at Maine, etc. right off the top of my head.

They could probably play St. Francis PA, Robert Morris or Duquesne, but would have to pay their travel expenses. So why not opt for a similar long trip and get your expenses paid?

Never winning these games will basically create the demise of the program. Winning seasons will bring recruits and a different philosophy.

[DFW HOYA]

The St. Joseph's article is a little disingenuous--what AD is going to tell a student journalist "wow, that was the worst I decision I made..."

The unspoken fact is that when these schools dropped football, they further retreated into the ether of NCAA Division I programs unseen and forgotten. The MAAC is the equivalent of the Atlantic Sun right now and the loss of football frankly cost Fairfield a PL invite. And what exactly is a better program at Siena because they aren't playing football?

I would have liked that writer to pause before he pronounded private school football dead in the Northeast. Places like Wagner, Monmouth, Bryant, St. Francis, Duquesne, etc. aren't made of money either and somehow they get it!

[Monmouth Fan]

One of the biggest problems facing Iona is their football facilities. Never mind scholarships or transportation expenses. Have any of the folks making comments here ever seen Iona's field? There are technically no seats; 4 rows of concrete bleachers on either side of the field (fans are literally on the sidelines) and no credible parking. Last time I saw Iona’s football weight room it wasn’t big enough to hold its head coach, no pun intended. And all of this upgrade would have to take place in one of the most expensive land areas in the US.

[DFW HOYA]

Mazella Field isn't much, but it's not much less than Parsons Field, Multi-Sport Field, or even Rooney Field at Duquesne.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_J._Rooney_Athletic_Field

[Seawolf97]

I think if Iona does end their football program this year they will still make name for themselves in basketball. While they are not a Georgetown or Villanova , locally they are respected. I know they are rebuilding that program to bring it back to a 20 win season .

[Go...gate]

The St. Joseph's article is a little disingenuous--what AD is going to tell a student journalist "wow, that was the worst I decision I made..."

The unspoken fact is that when these schools dropped football, they further retreated into the ether of NCAA Division I programs unseen and forgotten. The MAAC is the equivalent of the Atlantic Sun right now and the loss of football frankly cost Fairfield a PL invite. And what exactly is a better program at Siena because they aren't playing football?

I would have liked that writer to pause before he pronounded private school football dead in the Northeast. Places like Wagner, Monmouth, Bryant, St. Francis, Duquesne, etc. aren't made of money either and somehow they get it!

They would have been a great fit, too. Fairfield is a fine old school.

[mainejeff]

Maine did their part to help Iona......they paid them $40,000 to make the trip to Orono. xthumbsupx

[JD51]

They would have been a great fit, too. Fairfield is a fine old school.

I'm interested in the PL take on Fairfield as a member. I happen to agree that they would have been a great fit if they maintained football (and a good rivalry for Colgate if they kept hockey). Academically, however, do you believe they are on par with PL schools?

Just curious. I believe Fairfield is a mighty fine school, but I don't see them offering much more to the PL than a Bryant or Marist.

[bison137]

Just curious. I believe Fairfield is a mighty fine school, but I don't see them offering much more to the PL than a Bryant or Marist.


When it comes to academics, I'd say that Fairfield is a little better than Marist, which in turn is a little better than Bryant. Fairfield, however, seems to have stagnated in its rankings, average SAT's, etc.

What Fairfield does not offer, of course, is football, which would make the other two more desirable if that was a priority. Fairfield would help elevate the PL's position as one of the top lacrosse leagues in the country however.

[dgreco]

When it comes to academics, I'd say that Fairfield is a little better than Marist, which in turn is a little better than Bryant. Fairfield, however, seems to have stagnated in its rankings, average SAT's, etc.

What Fairfield does not offer, of course, is football, which would make the other two more desirable if that was a priority. Fairfield would help elevate the PL's position as one of the top lacrosse leagues in the country however.

Bryant totally will have the lacrosse world in its view. With Coach P, and then they added 7 transfers from DI programs -- Including Zack Greer. They also already have games with Virginia, Maryland, Loyola, Army, Penn, Brown, Lehigh etc...

I still think Bryant should of waited a year to see what the PL said instead of just jumping into the NEC. I think the NEC is a good fit, but I think Bryant would be better served staying smaller and making it tougher to get into the school, instead of making it larger and lowering its standards a little(which I think will happen if they grow to 5,500-6,000 like they want).

[JD51]

Bryant totally will have the lacrosse world in its view. With Coach P, and then they added 7 transfers from DI programs -- Including Zack Greer. They also already have games with Virginia, Maryland, Loyola, Army, Penn, Brown, Lehigh etc...

I still think Bryant should of waited a year to see what the PL said instead of just jumping into the NEC. I think the NEC is a good fit, but I think Bryant would be better served staying smaller and making it tougher to get into the school, instead of making it larger and lowering its standards a little(which I think will happen if they grow to 5,500-6,000 like they want).

The PL just isn't going to have an easy go of finding a fit that meets their academic standards while still being competitive at the FCS level. I do think Bryant was a great addition to the NEC however. Competitive from the get go and perfect timing with the formation of NEC lacrosse. I'm looking forward to watching them compete in all sports.

[Go...gate]

I'm interested in the PL take on Fairfield as a member. I happen to agree that they would have been a great fit if they maintained football (and a good rivalry for Colgate if they kept hockey). Academically, however, do you believe they are on par with PL schools?

Just curious. I believe Fairfield is a mighty fine school, but I don't see them offering much more to the PL than a Bryant or Marist.

They are not a hell of a lot better than Marist, but they have more history and their endowment is solid.

[dgreco]

The PL just isn't going to have an easy go of finding a fit that meets their academic standards while still being competitive at the FCS level. I do think Bryant was a great addition to the NEC however. Competitive from the get go and perfect timing with the formation of NEC lacrosse. I'm looking forward to watching them compete in all sports.

I think Lacrosse will be its put the school on the map sport, and in 2 years when they are eligible for the playoffs I think they have a chance at making it.

In the end I hope Bryant stays true to its size and its academic reputation - Where it is right now - and stay a top tier school in the state and be a good school in NE.

[JD51]

They are not a hell of a lot better than Marist, but they have more history and their endowment is solid.

True, solid endowment and strong alumni giving, but they are a young school with a 1942 founding date.

[Monmouth Fan]

Recent article discussing the loss of some of the MAAC football programs.

http://media.www.sjuhawknews.com/media/storage/paper763/news/2008/10/15/Sports/Assessing.The.College.Football.Landscape.Football. Programs.A.Dying.Breed.At.Smal-3486741.shtml

[Seawolf97]

Good article . Honestly I dont know how they recruit at Iona and keep their players motivated . It has to be tough getting blown out just about every Saturday.

[Dane96]

Bryant totally will have the lacrosse world in its view. With Coach P, and then they added 7 transfers from DI programs -- Including Zack Greer. They also already have games with Virginia, Maryland, Loyola, Army, Penn, Brown, Lehigh etc...

I still think Bryant should of waited a year to see what the PL said instead of just jumping into the NEC. I think the NEC is a good fit, but I think Bryant would be better served staying smaller and making it tougher to get into the school, instead of making it larger and lowering its standards a little(which I think will happen if they grow to 5,500-6,000 like they want).

Easy poppi! Bryant has a good coach...but there is plenty of stiff competition in the NE.

[dgreco]

Easy poppi! Bryant has a good coach...but there is plenty of stiff competition in the NE.

That was strictly from a Academic / Lacrosse standpoint. I think those things are more important to me, but what seems like the better fit for the long run is obviously the NEC.

I think all sports they would be better suited in the NEC. I think they will have more success in the NEC and be able to recruit differently than if they were in the PL. Also, they would change from a private/business school to a private/liberal arts school --- which I think will just be too hard to do. If you go to Bryant and tell anyone you had a major besides Finance, Accounting or Economics they had no idea the school had other programs.

It would be nice to change that mold, but I think they should continue to become a premier business college and grow a decent liberal arts college. By increasing size they can do that.

[Footballer31]

As someone who lives near Iona and has watched what goes on there for years, let me offer the following. My caveat, I am not a bitter ex player and I don't have anything to do with the school. I am just a football fan from the NY Metro area. That said:

Iona has been notoriously cheap for years with the football program. Zero recruiting budget, they depended on good local players who saw their first plan for school fall through to come there. That combined with other factors out of their control just doom this program.

Iona's home field for years was Memorial Field in Mount Vernon. With nary a blade of grass and condemned bleachers, it was not an impressive recruiting tool. The field was used to film the Coke commercial where Mean Joe Greene tosses the shirt to the kid who offers him the coke. That was probably the last highlight there. I think that was 1977?

Iona had some really great coaches though the years. In a year the team was 0-11, they had 4 coaches on staff who have all built high school football powers at their respective school. Too bad they got stuck playing Hofstra, Villanova and Fordham who were going Division I the next year or soon. They were so beat up after those first few games, they had no chance in the games they could have won. At least the travel budget wasn't much.

A couple years later travel 450 miles to Gannon, Siena and other start-up programs to get some wins. That worked well and got better players, until the D-III schools started crying foul. You know, the play down law.

For years, Iona had no dormitories. If you were recruited and came to Iona, you had to make a friend fast to have a place to hang your hat.

Because Iona is basically a commuter school, not many students would coming back to watch a game on Saturday. Nothing against the players or the school. It just isn't what people do around here. (See the Fordham attendance) When you decide to give money to your college, you are remembering the stuff you did outside the class room. If you go home after school, you don't have the same fond memories and accordingly, aren't as giving.

Finally some dorms were built and Mazzella Field was constructed. Because of the complaints of the surrounding homes that just happened to have a lot of money to spend on lawyers, Iona was left to shoehorn Mazzella Field into the middle of their campus, with no seats and no lights. Basically the neighbors said, build your field, just don't have fans and activities after dark and don't make any noise. It was a better alternative, but there is no room for growth. Oh yeah, there is no parking should 2,000 people decide to show up anyway.

Then of course the demise of the MAAC. Not really the college's fault. But when the ship took on water up to the deck chairs, it was time to jump.

Someone mentioned training facilites. They have expanded those in the past couple of years with the reconstruction of the Mulcahy Center (Now the Hynes Center). Give them credit for that, but not too much. It wasn't done with football in mind.

I don't have an answer. I follow the local schools here. Check out a game every year at Fordham, Iona, Marist, Columbia. It would be sad to see no football at Iona, but the way they go about it doesn't really give them a chance to get any better. There is no quick fix, there is no cheap fix. This sort of tells you what is going to happen.

In regards to any other threads, if you think think this Iona team would solve its problems getting a couple of Ivy League schools to play, it won't. Don't sell the Ivy League that short.

[danefan]

As someone who lives near Iona and has watched what goes on there for years, let me offer the following. My caveat, I am not a bitter ex player and I don't have anything to do with the school. I am just a football fan from the NY Metro area. That said:

Iona has been notoriously cheap for years with the football program. Zero recruiting budget, they depended on good local players who saw their first plan for school fall through to come there. That combined with other factors out of their control just doom this program.

Iona's home field for years was Memorial Field in Mount Vernon. With nary a blade of grass and condemned bleachers, it was not an impressive recruiting tool. The field was used to film the Coke commercial where Mean Joe Greene tosses the shirt to the kid who offers him the coke. That was probably the last highlight there. I think that was 1977?

Iona had some really great coaches though the years. In a year the team was 0-11, they had 4 coaches on staff who have all built high school football powers at their respective school. Too bad they got stuck playing Hofstra, Villanova and Fordham who were going Division I the next year or soon. They were so beat up after those first few games, they had no chance in the games they could have won. At least the travel budget wasn't much.

A couple years later travel 450 miles to Gannon, Siena and other start-up programs to get some wins. That worked well and got better players, until the D-III schools started crying foul. You know, the play down law.

For years, Iona had no dormitories. If you were recruited and came to Iona, you had to make a friend fast to have a place to hang your hat.

Because Iona is basically a commuter school, not many students would coming back to watch a game on Saturday. Nothing against the players or the school. It just isn't what people do around here. (See the Fordham attendance) When you decide to give money to your college, you are remembering the stuff you did outside the class room. If you go home after school, you don't have the same fond memories and accordingly, aren't as giving.

Finally some dorms were built and Mazzella Field was constructed. Because of the complaints of the surrounding homes that just happened to have a lot of money to spend on lawyers, Iona was left to shoehorn Mazzella Field into the middle of their campus, with no seats and no lights. Basically the neighbors said, build your field, just don't have fans and activities after dark and don't make any noise. It was a better alternative, but there is no room for growth. Oh yeah, there is no parking should 2,000 people decide to show up anyway.

Then of course the demise of the MAAC. Not really the college's fault. But when the ship took on water up to the deck chairs, it was time to jump.

Someone mentioned training facilites. They have expanded those in the past couple of years with the reconstruction of the Mulcahy Center (Now the Hynes Center). Give them credit for that, but not too much. It wasn't done with football in mind.

I don't have an answer. I follow the local schools here. Check out a game every year at Fordham, Iona, Marist, Columbia. It would be sad to see no football at Iona, but the way they go about it doesn't really give them a chance to get any better. There is no quick fix, there is no cheap fix. This sort of tells you what is going to happen.

In regards to any other threads, if you think think this Iona team would solve its problems getting a couple of Ivy League schools to play, it won't. Don't sell the Ivy League that short.

Good post and welcome to the board Footballer31.

Sounds to me like Iona has not and does not have any plans to support the football program. Looks like the perfect storm for the program to be cut, unfortunately.

[aceinthehole]

Iona has been notoriously cheap for years with the football program. Zero recruiting budget, ...

Iona's home field ... With nary a blade of grass and condemned bleachers, it was not an impressive recruiting tool.

... not many students would coming back to watch a game on Saturday. ... build your field, just don't have fans and activities after dark and don't make any noise.

... demise of the MAAC.

It would be sad to see no football at Iona, but the way they go about it doesn't really give them a chance to get any better. There is no quick fix, there is no cheap fix. This sort of tells you what is going to happen.

Great post, seems like you have a lot of info.

I agree, its too bad, but we know what's going to happen.

I just hope those kids (many who are pretty good) can find homes at NEC or other schools. For example, I think any one of these players would have a better time at SFPA, Wagner, or SHU where the school will provide them some support. Now these kids get nothing and its a shame.

I also think those coaches will fall on their feet if the program folds. As you point out, they won a few games with some meager resources and tough situation. It a credit to everyone there they have gone on this long.

[GaelsFootball]

The St. Joseph's article is a little disingenuous--what AD is going to tell a student journalist "wow, that was the worst I decision I made..."

The unspoken fact is that when these schools dropped football, they further retreated into the ether of NCAA Division I programs unseen and forgotten. The MAAC is the equivalent of the Atlantic Sun right now and the loss of football frankly cost Fairfield a PL invite. And what exactly is a better program at Siena because they aren't playing football?

I would have liked that writer to pause before he pronounded private school football dead in the Northeast. Places like Wagner, Monmouth, Bryant, St. Francis, Duquesne, etc. aren't made of money either and somehow they get it!

It was addressed to some parents of the Iona Football team by Coach Mariani that the Fairfield AD has admitted to Coach Mariani that dropping football was one of the worst decisions they have ever made.

[Go...gate]

Having been a development volunteer, you look for a hook to identify people with your school because it can bring in $$ long-term. Athletics and especially football can be that hook.

[318north]

I think The Patriot League is an excellent option for Iona. It sure beats being an independent.

[danefan]

The PL is an excellent option for Iona, but is Iona a good option for the PL?

I don't think Iona has the academic credentials to match up with PL schools, does it?

[Franks Tanks]

I think The Patriot League is an excellent option for Iona. It sure beats being an independent.


The SoCon is an excellent option for Savannah State in theory but that doesnt mean the league wants them. As Dane hinted at Iona wouldnt be a good fit for the PL. Some PL schools spend as much as 10 times more on football then Iona, and they would not be competitive in the PL. If you think G-town takes a beating on the PL I shutter to think what would happen to the Gaels.

I sincerly hope Iona football survives, but the PL is not an option.

[aceinthehole]

The SoCon is an excellent option for Savannah State in theory but that doesnt mean the league wants them. As Dane hinted at Iona wouldnt be a good fit for the PL. Some PL schools spend as much as 10 times more on football then Iona, and they would not be competitive in the PL. If you think G-town takes a beating on the PL I shutter to think what would happen to the Gaels.

I sincerly hope Iona football survives, but the PL is not an option.

yep. The PL isn't an option.

Saint Francis spend nearly 3x what Iona does and has a newely renovated (albiet small) football stadium with Field Turf and a new field house with lockers rooms, weight training, and coaches offices. The NEC is not an option either.

I just don't see this ending on a positive note for Iona football.

[PeacockRaider]

My computer has been down this past week so I am jumping into this thread late. Most points on this matter have already been made. I'll just say that as a former Saint Peter's player I hope the administration realizes the benefit of having a fb program, even if it isn't on the level of the better FCS programs.

Over time Iona could have a nice program, get into the PFL, schedule one or two money games a year and start supporting the program better financially.

I will write my letter and hope for the best. It's funny, what's left of my old conference rivals are the ones I want to succeed the most...other than Colgatexpeacex

[dgreco]

yep. The PL isn't an option.

Saint Francis spend nearly 3x what Iona does and has a newely renovated (albiet small) football stadium with Field Turf and a new field house with lockers rooms, weight training, and coaches offices. The NEC is not an option either.

I just don't see this ending on a positive note for Iona football.

I agree and I feel that the PFL has to be an option they have to look at. They already take a few long trips and play money games. Join the PFL you will have a few long trips, but play a small money game with a Maine or another type school and that will fund at least one of the trips I would assume.

I would hate to see them go, but the PL & NEC just do not seem to be options. If they are an independent they can continue on the same schedule, but even so they have 3 wins and no DI wins. It is a tough state to be in.

[Footballer31]

Certainly losing 68-9 to a team that was 3-7 itself this weekend didn't do much to help the cause.

Those thinking Patriot League, forget it. This is Iona's field, with no room for expansion even if they wanted to.

http://www.travelpod.com/travel-photo/scrovo/1/1218050880/dsc00123.jpg/tpod.html

[downbythebeach]

IMHO worst facilities in all of D-I football (havent seen them all, but have seen pics of most all)
Cool band with kilts
For what they are spending they are doing great, but the D3 days are over and they need to make a decision
They just got crushed by SBU.....its would be sad to see it happen, and I hope I'm wrong, but if they were going to go the PFL they would have already announced.........I'm thinking next week against Bryant is Iona College's last NCAA football game for a long time

[crusader11]

IMHO worst facilities in all of D-I football (havent seen them all, but have seen pics of most all)
Cool band with kilts
For what they are spending they are doing great, but the D3 days are over and they need to make a decision
They just got crushed by SBU.....its would be sad to see it happen, and I hope I'm wrong, but if they were going to go the PFL they would have already announced.........I'm thinking next week against Bryant is Iona College's last NCAA football game for a long time

The PFL...a league for misfits.

[Go...gate]

Certainly losing 68-9 to a team that was 3-7 itself this weekend didn't do much to help the cause.

Those thinking Patriot League, forget it. This is Iona's field, with no room for expansion even if they wanted to.

http://www.travelpod.com/travel-photo/scrovo/1/1218050880/dsc00123.jpg/tpod.html

They really have no choice but to seek inclusion in the PFL. I hope they will.

[IC_MAAC_Champs93]

Let's be honest, since 1993 and the inception of the MAAC "Non Scholarship" Football League, the Gaels have been slowly outclassed due to their "Cost Containment" attitude. In the old days, they were a pretty good division 3 team, but with no scholarships or a committment from the administration, there is no way you can compete at the current level. Think of it this way, as a "Non Scholarship" program, you can't compete with Division 3 recruiting rules and you certainly can't compete with "Scholarship" programs.

Footballer31 got it right in an earlier post. I hope that the current Coach and Team at least get a fighting chance.

[furpal87]

I have my own personal perspective on this:

My father was the first football coach at Iona back in the 60's. 3 years 21-5 record. I went to Iona football games most of my first years. When my Dad went back for the reunion last year, he said the players told them they weren't getting any support. To me this is a personal tragedy, this was my Dad's pride and joy, and it is something I don't want to think happening. Please fight on!!!!

[downbythebeach]

I have my own personal perspective on this:

My father was the first football coach at Iona back in the 60's. 3 years 21-5 record. I went to Iona football games most of my first years. When my Dad went back for the reunion last year, he said the players told them they weren't getting any support. To me this is a personal tragedy, this was my Dad's pride and joy, and it is something I don't want to think happening. Please fight on!!!!

Wow....you really have some connections
Sad Storyxsmhx

[Seawolf97]

I have my own personal perspective on this:

My father was the first football coach at Iona back in the 60's. 3 years 21-5 record. I went to Iona football games most of my first years. When my Dad went back for the reunion last year, he said the players told them they weren't getting any support. To me this is a personal tragedy, this was my Dad's pride and joy, and it is something I don't want to think happening. Please fight on!!!!

I have said this from the beginning I feel for the players, coaching staff and the fans. Hopefully they move into the PFL in 2009 although I truly think the admin. will let them fold. They are a proud and gritty group and need some support.

[Go...gate]

I have said this from the beginning I feel for the players, coaching staff and the fans. Hopefully they move into the PFL in 2009 although I truly think the admin. will let them fold. They are a proud and gritty group and need some support.

Amen.

[IC_MAAC_Champs93]

Here is a great article that articulates the essential problem created by the NCAA in 1991 which resulted in the formation of the "MAAC" football league, strictly as a "Cost Containment"
Football League in answer to the NCAA.

http://media.www.sjuhawknews.com/media/storage/paper763/news/2008/10/15/Sports/Assessing.The.College.Football.Landscape.Football. Programs.A.Dying.Breed.At.Smal-3486741.shtml

[IC_MAAC_Champs93]

I have my own personal perspective on this:

My father was the first football coach at Iona back in the 60's. 3 years 21-5 record. I went to Iona football games most of my first years. When my Dad went back for the reunion last year, he said the players told them they weren't getting any support. To me this is a personal tragedy, this was my Dad's pride and joy, and it is something I don't want to think happening. Please fight on!!!!

Iona was blessed with Great Coaches in the past:

Ben Bedini -1965 (25-9-1)
George Maier - 1970
Joe Tricario - 1973
John Bloss - 1974
Tony DeMeo -1975
Brian Colleary - 1979

I hope that the Administration is open to a solution to save the program.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://www.championshipsubdivisionnews.com/index.php?blog=5&title=the-csn-way-paths-to-the-postseason&disp=single&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1



CHUCKLES

...

Bryant at Iona. I ask of you, folks in the New York area, go to Mazella field and show that you support this team. Iona, a non-scholarship independent team in FCS, has been publicly rumbling about folding the program. Don’t let this game be about Bryant, who is on their way into FCS, playing a team that is about ready to fold up shop in FCS. If there is justice in the world, Iona will not only win this game - the day after the win, the PFL will announce that Iona will be competing in their league staring in 2009. I hope this is the case.
Please Let Justice Prevail 21, Bulldogs Will Win Again in ‘09 19

xthumbsupx

[DFW HOYA]

I hope that the Administration is open to a solution to save the program.
I mentioend this earlier in the thread but it bears repeating.

Iona should request an NCAA waiver on the minimum number of D-I games as Davidson did in the early 1990's. It could play Marist, Wagner, and fill the rest of the schedule with D-III teams around the NY/NJ area to fill its schedule until it builds back its infrastructure.

Pass on the body-bag games, keep the bus trips within an hour, and rebuild the program.

[dgreco]

I guess this facility IC has really is hell. The Bryant announcers normally don't comment, but they can't believe how horrible the facilities are.

[DFW HOYA]

I guess this facility IC has really is hell. The Bryant announcers normally don't comment, but they can't believe how horrible the facilities are.

Guess they haven't seen Northeastern or Georgetown.

[dgreco]

Guess they haven't seen Northeastern or Georgetown.

One of the windows got blown out by the wind and the coaches are sitting in chairs on top of the press box I guess. The walls are rumbling from the wind too.

But I haven't seen the other two yet either so maybe Iona isn't the worst.

[Bulldog Fan]

Iona's press box is actually a trailer on wheels.
The local paper in New Rochelle NY stated Iona officials were meeting at 11:30 am today to determine the fate of the program. The rumor passed through the crowd at the end of the game is Iona played their last football game today.

[Seawolf97]

Iona's press box is actually a trailer on wheels.
The local paper in New Rochelle NY stated Iona officials were meeting at 11:30 am today to determine the fate of the program. The rumor passed through the crowd at the end of the game is Iona played their last football game today.

That would be sad indeed

[Go...gate]

No one wins when any sport is dropped. I wonder if Iona's administration considered the PFL.

[Footballer31]

Iona was up 7-0 at the half. They had the chance to take the lead at 10-9 at the end of the third, missed a 38-yard field goal. Tough kick into a stiff wind, plus some fiddle faddle with the hold surely didn't help. It all got away from them in the 4th quarter. Most of the first 3 quarters was between the 20 yard lines.

Bryant is coming along, but they have work to do. Everyone at the game was of the frame of mind this was it for Iona. Everyone. I guess we will know in a few hours.

Maybe 400 people were at the game. Obviously "Seniors Day" helped a little, but not much.

Yes, the press box is an enlarged mobile trailer, the scoreboard is on rusty wheels. As mentioned in an earlier post, the college had to make so many concessions to the neighbors to get the field as it is built. I don't think they were allowed to put permanent structures in.

I shot some pictures, but I haven't figured out how to post them. If anyone knows, let me know.

[Model Citizen]

I wonder if Iona's administration considered the PFL.

Yes, and the PFL considered them. The problem has been lack of commitment from Iona to continue this sport. The league wasn't about to grab a program on its deathbed. In many ways, Campbell is already light years ahead of Iona.

If Iona had gained any kind of support this year, the PFL might be looking at bringing them in as a 12th member in a couple of years. It didn't happen, IC football has no future, and I think you'll soon see the final result. :(

[Go...gate]

Yes, and the PFL considered them. The problem has been lack of commitment from Iona to continue this sport. The league wasn't about to grab a program on its deathbed. In many ways, Campbell is already light years ahead of Iona.

If Iona had gained any kind of support this year, the PFL might be looking at bringing them in as a 12th member in a couple of years. It didn't happen, IC football has no future, and I think you'll soon see the final result. :(

If you are correct, this is a disappointment.

[daywoo7]

The team we put on the field right now is very young. We lost 9 starters from the number 2 befence in FCS last years as well as our top 3 offenseive playmakers. On top of that we've lost our starting QB, OLB, 3 RB's, WR, DE and more to injury. We can return 9 starters on offense and 10 on defense. Don't forget we were 7-4 last year being 6 points from 9-2. We also got votes last year in the 1-AA poll last year on 2 different occasions. On top of that the freshman class last year was tremendous. This team is one year away from being a very good team with the proper support.

[Go...gate]

No word from the administration. I hope no news is good news. They deserve to survive.

[GaelsFootball]

Iona's press box is actually a trailer on wheels.
The local paper in New Rochelle NY stated Iona officials were meeting at 11:30 am today to determine the fate of the program. The rumor passed through the crowd at the end of the game is Iona played their last football game today.

There was a meeting at 11 30. But the meeting was for parents of current football players of Iona and the President of Iona just sat there and didn't say much. The parents were expressing their displeasure and letting him hear it. We are expecting an answer by the first week of December.

[Syntax Error]

GRIDIRON GAELS! GRIDIRON GAELS! GRIDIRON GAELS! GRIDIRON GAELS! GRIDIRON GAELS! GRIDIRON GAELS! GRIDIRON GAELS! GRIDIRON GAELS! GRIDIRON GAELS! GRIDIRON GAELS! GRIDIRON GAELS! GRIDIRON GAELS! GRIDIRON GAELS! GRIDIRON GAELS! GRIDIRON GAELS! GRIDIRON GAELS! GRIDIRON GAELS! GRIDIRON GAELS! GRIDIRON GAELS! GRIDIRON GAELS!

[dgreco]

There was a meeting at 11 30. But the meeting was for parents of current football players of Iona and the President of Iona just sat there and didn't say much. The parents were expressing their displeasure and letting him hear it. We are expecting an answer by the first week of December.

Hopefully the voices of the families had a positive impact on the President and keeping the team around. The PFL is not ideal, but they can play a lot of OOC games right in the city and really save on expenses.

[Go...gate]

Time for The Big Guy to tap the University Prexy on the shoulder and remind him that he has bigger problems than kids (paying their own way) who want to engage in wholesome physical exercise and gain the values which emanate from it. It is a Catholic school, after all, and those things are part of the mission.

[GaelsFootball]

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/save-iona-college-football.html

This is an online petition that has been started by one of the football parents. If you have a minute please take the time to sign. Thanks for all the support from the members of this site.

[Go...gate]

I have signed the Petition, which now has over 1,100 signatures. I encourage other AGS members to do so.

[seahawkfan2007]

I signed the petition and was #1146. Hopefully former Iona players are voicing thier opinion as well. After 35 plus years there has to be around 1,000 or so out there.

[Big Kahuna]

I signed the Petition. It's a sad day that another old MAAC school has dropped football.

[dgreco]

Just hope a lot of these players and coaches make it somewhere next year.

[Mr. C]

It's up to 1,278 signatures (including mine).

[Jaques]

1279

[danefan]

It's up to 1,278 signatures (including mine).


1279

Not going to matter guys. The already dropped the program.xmadx

[Go...gate]

The way the Iona leadership handled it still annoys me.

[Seawolf97]

I havent seen a word in the local press on this either. I may have missed an article but so far nothing -not even a small mention .

[dgreco]

I havent seen a word in the local press on this either. I may have missed an article but so far nothing -not even a small mention .

The local radio in RI had a little piece with coach Fine and talking about the end of Iona football. They were told it was the largest crowd in two years. Bryant bused out about 200 kids and the total attendance was almost 500. I think very few people care to much to even write a full story on it. I am sure it went in some newspaper blog and that was about it.

[GaelsFootball]

The local radio in RI had a little piece with coach Fine and talking about the end of Iona football. They were told it was the largest crowd in two years. Bryant bused out about 200 kids and the total attendance was almost 500. I think very few people care to much to even write a full story on it. I am sure it went in some newspaper blog and that was about it.

That's absolutly false. We had close to 4,000 for Homecoming this year. We had three home games where the weather was terrible, and since theres no where to hid from the rain..we get awful crowds.
On the contray, when it's a nice sunny day out you will see students scattered all over from the "skybox" of the building next door to people laying out on the grass behind the endzone.
And I know espn did a quick article on it...CBS NEWS crew was at the last game and did a piece on it that night, not sure if they ever followed it up...Other than that, just the local NEWS 12 in Westchester, and the Journal News did an article.

[Collegefootballfan]

It a sad day when a college drops it football program for what ever reason financial or lack of support. Iona College is a case in point it faced numerous obstacles for its survival most importantly it was the last man standing in a league that fell apart all around it. The Mac had no leadership , imagination or dedication to the sport. As evidence of its
quick collaspe. Iona was left with little or no options , be independent
try to join the Patriot or NEC or its best bet the Pioneer League.
All to no avail . The biggest handicap was the restriction of D 1 schools
playing in lower division leagues. This hurt Iona deeply . Without a league
to play in the Gaels were a goner.
So the team is gone and all hope is lost. OR is IT . While the college well no longer sponser it the game can still go on.
How several ways .
First instead of going quietly away gone and forgotten the team can go on next year as a club team this has alot of advantage , it gives the football
players a chance to play and regroup to fight another day and to show the school adminstrator that football is a vital part of the college
second it gives supporters time to make a master plan that will save the team and make sponsering it viable.
Going club also lifts the restriction of the team to schedule more
competive teams , like the new clubs at the University of Vermont
University of Maine. add clubs from Xavier , Marguette , SEIU, Uof Miami,(Ohio), George Mason, UNO, send out feelers to other former Mac schools
like St Peter's, Lasalle, and a few others St Bonaventure, and a very competive club league could be formed along with schdeduling new d3
programs at Anna Maria College, Castleton University, and the rest of the
NAC Conference. Iona would have a very competive program.
Another option would be to follow the example of Mansfield University
in pennsylvania and join the very competive and more importantly
inexpensive Collegiate Sprint Football League and play the likes of
Army, Navy and Penn . While it has a weight restriction the play is fast and furious. It is a instant national league that would be give Iona alot
of exposure. Lastly the issue of the team is always financial .
One way to pay for the team is to raise money by having each student
donate $10.00 a month to the team . or $120.00 for the year
with 3,000 students the program could raise over $300,000.
My biggest reason for writing this is to try to instill the belief in the players and there supporters that all is not lost and not to give
up with a alittle bit of imagination and dedication life and the team
can still go on. GO GAELS and good luck.

[Monmouth Fan]

That's absolutly false. We had close to 4,000 for Homecoming this year. We had three home games where the weather was terrible, and since theres no where to hid from the rain..we get awful crowds.
On the contray, when it's a nice sunny day out you will see students scattered all over from the "skybox" of the building next door to people laying out on the grass behind the endzone.
And I know espn did a quick article on it...CBS NEWS crew was at the last game and did a piece on it that night, not sure if they ever followed it up...Other than that, just the local NEWS 12 in Westchester, and the Journal News did an article.

And therein lies part of the problem. Iona football officially reported the crowd at 483. Those folks in the "skybox" and the endzone show part of the problem. The 483 official attendance is proabably all that can fit in the concrete bleachers.