Chattanooga Players in Trouble....

[Torero Tradition]

Not good news at all...

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http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news;_ylt=Ajn_dUjT6of4A6XeVD6IkKYcvrYF?slug=ap-chattanooga-rapecharge&prov=ap&type=lgns

CHATTANOOGA, Tenn. (AP) -- Six Chattanooga football players were charged with raping a female student, a university spokesman said Tuesday.

The six named in the charges filed by the Hamilton County prosecutor are Muhammad Ahmad Abdus-Salaam, Lironnie Davis, DeJuan Payne, Cori Stukes, Terrence Thomas and Larry White, according to Chattanooga spokesman Chuck Cantrell.

[AppGuy04]

guess there was enough evidence

[ASU Kep]

and just when things were starting to look up for their program...this sort of s--t doesnt help...

[Baldy]

These things happen when you depend on transfers.

[Cocky]

Didn't these players miss the App State game?

[Cocky]

Didn't these players miss the App State game?

[ASU Kep]

Yup, and UTC still put up one hell of a fight. Only two of those guys were starting, though.

[Eagle22]

These things happen when you depend on transfers.

I think that's a little too broad a brush to paint .... at least a couple of those involved weren't transfers ... they were signed out of high school ...

[atlGAmocs]

Let's take a minute to understand that this case is far from being over. Non of these yong men has been found guilty. Originally it was seven players accused now its six. Already there has been one young man that for two weeks has had his name in several articles linked to a gang rape and he wasn't even involved.

[AppGuy04]

Let's take a minute to understand that this case is far from being over. Non of these yong men has been found guilty. Originally it was seven players accused now its six. Already there has been one young man that for two weeks has had his name in several articles linked to a gang rape and he wasn't even involved.

thats all well and good, but they wouldn't have been "charged" if there wasn't evidence, but no, they haven't been proven guilty yet, have they been vilified, most likely, but nobody has said they were guilty

[SoCon48]

Let's take a minute to understand that this case is far from being over. Non of these yong men has been found guilty. Originally it was seven players accused now its six. Already there has been one young man that for two weeks has had his name in several articles linked to a gang rape and he wasn't even involved.


One young man watched the entire event and the lawyer said he was going to be a witness. That makes him involved in the eyes of the law. Not just a witness.

[AppGuy04]

One young man watched the entire event and the lawyer said he was going to be a witness. That makes him involved in the eyes of the law. Not just a witness.

if he didn't stop it, then he is just as guilty

did u never see that seinfeld episode?

[SoCon48]

Didn't these players miss the App State game?

No they did not miss it. There were only 3 of the 7 who were normally starters. Those 3 were there and ready to play. Two of those 3 ended up playing.

[SoCon48]

if he didn't stop it, then he is just as guilty

did u never see that seinfeld episode?

EXACTLY. You are saying exactly what I said. If he was there, then he was involved whether he participated or not. Similar to aiding and abetting and if his name happens to be on the lease or is one of the room mates, he will be in even more deep ****. Had he left and called the cops, he would be off completely. Of course they would have likely beaten the crap out of him later. :eek:

Of course by the time they villify the VICTIM as it is dragged through the courts and the media, she will likely drop the case. Which is why most victims choose not to press charges.

[SoCon48]

if he didn't stop it, then he is just as guilty

did u never see that seinfeld episode?

And ya know, IF it makes it to court, it will be hard to get a jury to believe 7 football players vs 1 girl was "group sex" instead of a gang bang. On the otherhand, all it takes is ONE juror who doesn't vote guilty and the 7 are off scot free.

[atlGAmocs]

EXACTLY. You are saying exactly what I said. If he was there, then he was involved whether he participated or not. Similar to aiding and abetting and if his name happens to be on the lease or is one of the room mates, he will be in even more deep ****. Had he left and called the cops, he would be off completely. Of course they would have likely beaten the crap out of him later. :eek:

Of course by the time they villify the VICTIM as it is dragged through the courts and the media, she will likely drop the case. Which is why most victims choose not to press charges.

I am saying that one player was not charged. I do not know his level of involvement or what led to him being implicated in the first place. But as of today the UTC Police and Hamilton County District Attorney did not charge Anthony Brodnax with the crime of rape. All I am saying is that for two weeks he has to deal with his name in newspaper articles linking him to a gang rape. How does he go about reclaiming his life? Can he continue on as a student and a student athlete?

[SoCon48]

I am saying that one player was not charged. I do not know his level of involvement or what led to him being implicated in the first place. But as of today the UTC Police and Hamilton County District Attorney did not charge Anthony Brodnax with the crime of rape. All I am saying is that for two weeks he has to deal with his name in newspaper articles linking him to a gang rape. How does he go about reclaiming his life? Can he continue on as a student and a student athlete?

Totally agree, just re-enforces what my old coach told us years ago. "Nothing good happens after midnight."
Certainly not at 2:30 am in an apartment full of FB players violating curfew and with one female in the bunch.
Wrong place, wrong time, wrong friends, and evidently the wrong girl. Tough lesson for all involved.

Of course coach also told us, "If you aren't in bed by midnight, you might as well go on home." :nod:

[atlGAmocs]

Totally agree, just re-enforces what my old coach told us years ago. "Nothing good happens after midnight."
Certainly not at 2:30 am in an apartment full of FB players violating curfew and with one female in the bunch.
Wrong place, wrong time, wrong friends, and evidently the wrong girl. Tough lesson for all involved.

Of course coach also told us, "If you aren't in bed by midnight, you might as well go on home." :nod:

I agree. At the very least these guys are guilty of an incredible act of stupidity. At the worst it is a very serious and heinous crime and should be punished accordingly.

I am angry at these players for putting themselves, the team and the university in this position. UTC has struggled for years and finally is experiencing some success and now bam the coach and administration don't get to talk about the first winning record since 1997. No they have to answer questions about gang rape. Unbelievable.

[Appdad]

I cut the following article from the T-FP and it is a good one.
My heart goes out the the families of the people involved, the innocent players and their families, the students, the coaches and their families and the school.
The UTC coach has done everything he can to turn the UTC program around and now a senseless act by a few, that I don't think anyone could have predicted, is smearing the remaining players, the families, and the school. Currently, people are second guessing the coach on how fast he responded, etc. Being a former coach I don't know how in the world he could have done anything more.

Though I cheer for another SoCon team let me say loud and proud;
GO MOCS!

The innocent ones need OUR TOTAL SUPPORT!

Lets make sure we spend some time talking about the good kids and the rejuvenated football program at UTC

-----------------------------------------------------
Coach’s job has its perils (T-FP)

David Magee Commentary

One would be hard pressed to find a profession laced with more irony than that of the college football coach.
Three-quarters of the way through this gridiron season, evidence abounds in this neck of the woods alone that the contrariness of the job often creates a scenario of mockery that is hard to ignore.
Take Tennessee head coach Philip Fulmer. Exactly nine weeks ago, he was on top of the college football world, preparing to lead a team ranked as high as No. 3 in the nation into the battle for a national championship. Five losses later, Mr. Fulmer is overseeing what appears to be the most in-shambles program in the country at the moment. How this proud football program moved from top of the pack to disarray in such a hurry is open for debate, but it is safe to say that confusion at the top has played a role. One example: From the start, nobody ever seemed sure who the quarterback should be.
It’s him. No, it’s him. Well, it could be both.
When criticism grew after losses mounted, the headscratching moved to other areas of the game. After one particular stinger, Mr. Fulmer said publicly after the game that blame rested with no one person. Just last week though, he forced Volunteer offensive coordinator Randy Sanders out of his job in the midst of the season, a highly singular act.
No matter that Mr. Sanders’ play calling led the Volunteers in a national championship game win in 1999 and helped the Big Orange offense in the past few years to be one of the more productive in the Southeastern Conference despite the absence of a Peyton Manningquality quarterback. People were getting grumpy, and somebody had to go.
Better you than me, that’s what I always say.
It is true that college coaching is a profession where changes often are made to keep the large donors and season-ticket buyers from withdrawing desperately needed support, but Mr. Fulmer’s pressuring of Mr. Sanders to leave with four games remaining created for himself a bit of a paradox.
Consider that Mr. Fulmer is the one who last December publicly expressed outrage when his former UT assistant, David Cutcliffe, was fired as head coach of Ole Miss after posting his firstever losing season. One sub-par year and you’re gone?
"I think it’s a travesty," Mr. Fulmer said at the time.
Imagine how Mr. Sanders feels, losing his job after one rocky half-season in which the head coach could not decide on a quarterback and no receivers seemed to be able to catch balls when it mattered most.
Closer to home, University of Tennessee at Chattanooga head coach Rodney Allison knows a bit about irony himself. On the one hand, he has pulled off a near miracle by leading the Mocs to a winning season in just his third year on the job. The program he took over was a laughingstock of all Division I-AA programs, suffering horrendous, double-digit losses to the weakest of opponents.
By scouring the country for immediate-help players, Mr. Allison’s Mocs have improved to the point of bypassing a stop at mediocrity on the comeback trail, landing quickly at respectability among NCAA Division I-AA teams.
Yet for all of the good, the coach is feeling perhaps more pressure than at any time during his three-year tenure because of a university image-staining, who-knew-what-when scenario involving the alleged abuse of a female student by seven members of the team.
And you thought the job of college football coach was a glamorous one.
Try walking in the shoes of Mr. Allison, a good guy by all accounts, who has watched his program suffer an unimaginable amount of negative publicity precisely at its highest moment of on-field achievement.
If only he could divide himself up into 97 little pieces, following each player to ensure they make it to class each day or get back to their dorm room each night in time for curfew, avoiding all appearances in questionable places.
Then he would be able to accomplish the unusual, avoiding the pit of irony that ultimately seems to catch all college coaches at one time or another.
E-mail David Magee at [email protected]

[colgate13]

Totally agree, just re-enforces what my old coach told us years ago. "Nothing good happens after midnight."

Looks like we had the same coach! :D

I still remember that quote as a young and impressionable 15/16 year old.

[atlGAmocs]

[QUOTE=Appdad]I cut the following article from the T-FP and it is a good one.
My heart goes out the the families of the people involved, the innocent players and their families, the students, the coaches and their families and the school.
The UTC coach has done everything he can to turn the UTC program around and now a senseless act by a few, that I don't think anyone could have predicted, is smearing the remaining players, the families, and the school. Currently, people are second guessing the coach on how fast he responded, etc. Being a former coach I don't know how in the world he could have done anything more.

Though I cheer for another SoCon team let me say loud and proud;
GO MOCS!

The innocent ones need OUR TOTAL SUPPORT!

Lets make sure we spend some time talking about the good kids and the rejuvenated football program at UTC[QUOTE]

Appdad I appreciate your thoughts. UTC has played well since this incident took place. They went to Kidd Brewer undermanned and left with a near upset. I was in Boone that day and I could not have been prouder of that team team and staff. As Appdad said there are players and coaches at UTC that are dealing with a terrible situation not of their making and are performing with remarkable courage and effort.

Go Mocs!

[SoCon48]

Thesw guys may be innocent of the legal charges, exonnerated, etc. But think about it, if the thing had NOT hit the papers, no charges filed, etc., yet the coach found out about it anyway.
Do you think Chattanooga would still stand behind them being recruited and admitted to the program, school, and representing the University of Chattanooga??
I seriously doubt it.
Boys will be boys, but this is a bit over the top.

[Appdad]

Thesw guys may be innocent of the legal charges, exonnerated, etc. But think about it, if the thing had NOT hit the papers, no charges filed, etc., yet the coach found out about it anyway.
Do you think Chattanooga would still stand behind them being recruited and admitted to the program, school, and representing the University of Chattanooga??
I seriously doubt it.
Boys will be boys, but this is a bit over the top.

If you are responding to my post I think you have misunderstood.

I was not addressing the ones that have been charged. I am talking about the remaining student athletes at UTC, the coaches, families and the school.

What a terrible memory to have of their UTC experience. I certainly hope it doesn't become the dominate memory.

Of course, if the accused are found guilty they should be sentenced. I was not addressing them.

[atlGAmocs]

Thesw guys may be innocent of the legal charges, exonnerated, etc. But think about it, if the thing had NOT hit the papers, no charges filed, etc., yet the coach found out about it anyway.
Do you think Chattanooga would still stand behind them being recruited and admitted to the program, school, and representing the University of Chattanooga??
I seriously doubt it.
Boys will be boys, but this is a bit over the top.

this is something that goes way beyond over the top. This certainly speaks to the character of the young men involved. If they are exonnerated should they be welcomed back on the team? I do not know the legal ramifications involved with that but my opinion would be for these guys not to be allowed to play for UTC. If they are innocent, good for them, but let them take their shame and try to resurrect thier lives elsewhere. I think that would be the best avenue for everyone involved.

[SoCon48]

If you are responding to my post I think you have misunderstood.

I was not addressing the ones that have been charged. I am talking about the remaining student athletes at UTC, the coaches, families and the school.

What a terrible memory to have of their UTC experience. I certainly hope it doesn't become the dominate memory.

Of course, if the accused are found guilty they should be sentenced. I was not addressing them.

Actually, AppDad, I was not addressing it toward anyone at all in particular.
Just saying that there appears to be no "truly" innocent ones in the whole incident. And IMOP, especially not the defense lawyer who began attacking the victim in the press immediately, thus further polluting the jury pool.

My gut feeling, FWIW, is that the girl, possibly intoxicated (or date rape drugged) judging from the time of night it began to come down, was going to have sex with one of the guys and maybe even the other guy in the car used to bring her to the apt. Then it escalated into a gang rape involving the others..and/or especially after the bathroom episode/fight occurred. Thus one or more may be able to pursuade the system that it was consensal, but no way all will be able to do so. At the same time, if it's typical, the case will be dropped by the girl or even thrown out if the rotten defense attorney has his way.
The fact that the girl was at the game a night or two later is totally meaningless. It's typical for victims to try to act in public like nothing has happened... confused and ashamed as to what to do. Most do nothing untill their anger or someone's influence gets the best of this them.
To boot, one of the perpetrators runs his mouth bragging to buddies, the victim or friends get wind of it and at that point goes to the authorities. After all, her chance of keeping it unknown to her friends, etc is blown.

What the real truth is, we'll likely never know, even after it goes to court.

[SoCon48]

this is something that goes way beyond over the top. This certainly speaks to the character of the young men involved. If they are exonnerated should they be welcomed back on the team? I do not know the legal ramifications involved with that but my opinion would be for these guys not to be allowed to play for UTC. If they are innocent, good for them, but let them take their shame and try to resurrect thier lives elsewhere. I think that would be the best avenue for everyone involved.

My feelings exactly. AtlMoc. I would be totally surprised if the team mates would even consider wanting them back. Much the less, the staff, students, fans...if the facts are as bad as thet presently sound.

[DB_Atlantic10]

if he didn't stop it, then he is just as guilty

did u never see that seinfeld episode?

Maybe he didn't stop it because there's more to the story...but this is definitely no place to discuss it......

[SoCon48]

Maybe he didn't stop it because there's more to the story...but this is definitely no place to discuss it......

Neither is the Atlanta Constitution, Charlotte Observer, ABC, NBC, CBS, ESPN, etc etc. But it is.
Nor the defense attorney in front of every microphone and reporter he could get to.

[ASU Kep]

What sort of effect do you guys think this will have on recruiting and the UTC FB program as a whole? I really have no expertise here at all...I mean, the actions of a few players certainly don't define a program as a whole, but will recruits/parents/etc. be wary of sending their sons to play for this team? I mean, it's certainly not good press...lol, but neither is the whole T.O. deal either, though that probably is irrelevant...

[chantster]

What sort of effect do you guys think this will have on recruiting and the UTC FB program as a whole? I really have no expertise here at all...I mean, the actions of a few players certainly don't define a program as a whole, but will recruits/parents/etc. be wary of sending their sons to play for this team? I mean, it's certainly not good press...lol, but neither is the whole T.O. deal either, though that probably is irrelevant...



You guys remember something similar to this case happening at UAB a few years back?

Seems their program didn't take that big a hit.

[chattanoogamocs]

I have purposely stayed out of this...because I am not going to feed the rumor and gossip mills with more assumptions, opinions, and "gut feelings" about the case (there are more than enough of those already)...that is why there will be a trial by jury to decide guilt or innocence....both sides will have their say in court.

(on a side note, sadly it is probably best that this does go to trial...at least that way you won't have all the boo-birds saying it yet another example across the nation of a cover up by police and school admins to protect almighty football players)

But I will comment on recruiting...I don't think it will hurt much...for every one of those guys I can show you 7 more that work very hard, never get into any trouble, make their grades, and show the university in a good light.

Additionally, there have been number of parents who have posted on Mocfans that they fully support Coach Allison because they know he is a good man that they trust their children with him.

...and behind him is Athletic Director Steve Sloan...(I know in this day and age it sounds sappy, but) as decent, God-fearing, and honest a man as I have ever met.

[chattanoogamocs]

You guys remember something similar to this case happening at UAB a few years back?

God, I had forgotten about that...and that girl had gone to school early (she was only 17).

[Delaware Ghostrider II]

Don't get me wrong..I am no way condoning this act, BUT what is to say..ok the chick was drunk. She had sex with 6-7 guys.....and then the next day she says...oh man I bet I look like such a whore now. The guys make thier lil jokes and what not. I'm pretty sure it became quite the topic piece on campus.....and she is trying to clear her name to look like a victim. Let's face it guys....we all have a bad rep when it come to anything involving sex. I saw it happen at UD...hell I saw it happen in my high school! Try this out.....just say any 6 of us approach a girl about have some group fun. She says ok.....we all get our rocks off and so on......the next day or hell ...let's say 5 minutes after its all over.....she runs to the police and yells rape...we are all screwed ( no pun intended). I think it is a lil funny she claims she was so drunk but yet she new exactly who was taking thier turns......sounds more like she's just trying to save face IMO. But either way...I love the sound of group sex...but rape...nah I dont stand for that....I just hope ( as a law enforcement officer) the investigation is handled correctly.

[ASU Kep]

Yah, I'm definitely not trying to rag on UTC, chattanoogamocs. I have a ton of respect for your school (I was there every summer during high school for wresslin' camp), your football program (it was amazing to see you guys play your hearts out up here a few weeks ago), and Coach Allison. In all the interviews I've heard of him he sounds like a real classy guy (I also spoke with him briefly before the UTC game). I was just wondering what the ramifications are for you guys. Some times you just get some bad seeds on your team, it can happen to anybody unfortunately, not just the scumbag (almost all I-A) schools that open their arms to convicted felons. I wish ya'll nothing but the best...except when your playing App of course :D .

[chattanoogamocs]

Don't worry, I didn't think you were trying to rag on the school...I thought it was a legit question (which is why I responded).

I think the way that the team responded at ASU and at home vs the Citadel says a lot about the character of the remaining players...it would have been easy to fold or make excuses.

And to see "tough ole West Texas boy" Rodney Allison fighting back tears Saturday night, shows how much emotion he has for his work, his players...and how much strain he must be under (on and off the field).

The program has not handled everything perfectly, but I honestly think they have tried to do their best in a bad situation...including fessing up to their mistakes early on (with comminucating it to the Chancellor).

[SoCon48]

Don't get me wrong..I am no way condoning this act, BUT what is to say..ok the chick was drunk. She had sex with 6-7 guys.....and then the next day she says...oh man I bet I look like such a whore now. The guys make thier lil jokes and what not. I'm pretty sure it became quite the topic piece on campus.....and she is trying to clear her name to look like a victim. Let's face it guys....we all have a bad rep when it come to anything involving sex. I saw it happen at UD...hell I saw it happen in my high school! Try this out.....just say any 6 of us approach a girl about have some group fun. She says ok.....we all get our rocks off and so on......the next day or hell ...let's say 5 minutes after its all over.....she runs to the police and yells rape...we are all screwed ( no pun intended). I think it is a lil funny she claims she was so drunk but yet she new exactly who was taking thier turns......sounds more like she's just trying to save face IMO. But either way...I love the sound of group sex...but rape...nah I dont stand for that....I just hope ( as a law enforcement officer) the investigation is handled correctly.

Unfortunately, if she was drunk enough, the boys are still definitely in a mell of a hess. Usually second degree rape. And if she resisted like she claims, while too drunk to do so effectively vs 6 or 7 guys...they're back to First Degree rape.
Only hope these guys have is for it to be dismissed or dropped...if she was indeed drunk.