Eastern Teams are the power in FCS

[Wolfman]

My fellow Montana fans do not like to admit it, but there is no mystery as to why so many Eastern FCS teams dominate the playoffs, and win national championships so often.

The fact is, the two toughest conferences beat up on each other during the regular season, much like the SEC teams do in IA. Then, when teams from weak conferences like the Big Sky have to play these Eastern teams, they usually get beat. It was not always this way, as evidenced by MOntana playing for the NC in 5 of 10 seasons. Unfortunately, things have changed in Grizland.

Just as LSU players stated after whipping Ohio State last year that they had played at least 3 SEC conference teams better than the Buckeyes, so goes it for the Eastern powers when they face one of the Big Sky teams, or Great West teams.

I will catch ***** once again for stating the truth. But, that's O.K. Facing the truth is difficult for many Griz fans. Many still whine about the "Eastern bias" from Colson and other sportwriters.

[dbackjon]

You are right. No point in anyone else playing. All teams west of the Appalachians should just petition the NCAA for a new division.


All hail the mighty Wolfman, expert at all things FCS.


Will you just get it over with and pick the FCS champ? No need to play any games.

[AZGrizFan]

My fellow Montana fans do not like to admit it, but there is no mystery as to why so many Eastern FCS teams dominate the playoffs, and win national championships so often.

The fact is, the two toughest conferences beat up on each other during the regular season, much like the SEC teams do in IA. Then, when teams from weak conferences like the Big Sky have to play these Eastern teams, they usually get beat. It was not always this way, as evidenced by MOntana playing for the NC in 5 of 10 seasons. Unfortunately, things have changed in Grizland.

Just as LSU players stated after whipping Ohio State last year that they had played at least 3 SEC conference teams better than the Buckeyes, so goes it for the Eastern powers when they face one of the Big Sky teams, or Great West teams.

I will catch ***** once again for stating the truth. But, that's O.K. Facing the truth is difficult for many Griz fans. Many still whine about the "Eastern bias" from Colson and other sportwriters.

Or, it could be that there are about 15 teams west of the Mississippi, and about 100 East of the Mississippi.

But I'm just spitballin' here... xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

[Silenoz]

I don't understand you Wolfman. The Griz have been a more than competent team during the Hauck-era. Most of our playoffs losses (in fact, all of them besides the Cal Poly game) could very easily have gone the other way.

Are you expecting the postseason routs we delivered in 1995 and 1996? Because those scores are a thing of the past. Parity has gradually become greater over the last ten years, and most playoff games are going to be a dogfight.

[blur2005]

I don't think this is a good argument. Of course the teams in the east win more titles - there are so many more teams there, period. Therefore, of the sixteen teams in the playoffs, twelve or so are usually from the "east."

[mvemjsunpx]

Let's test if Wolfman's assertion—that western teams suck in the playoffs—is true for this decade (2000-07)…


If we define the "West" as the western half of the United States (AK, HI, WA, OR, CA, ID, NV, UT, AZ, MT, WY, CO, NM, ND, SD, NE, KS, OK, & TX), just 22 of the 125 FCS teams are located in the west: the Big Sky, the Great West, the TX Southland teams, the TX SWAC teams, the Dakota States, & San Diego. That's 17.6%. However, the Dakota teams were never eligible for any of the prior playoffs while UC Davis & Northern Colorado were only eligible last year. In addition, the SWAC teams are effectively not allowed to participate in the playoffs, so that leaves us with just 14 teams. St. Mary's & CS-Northridge did still have football early this decade, so let's put an approximate figure of eligible western playoff teams over that span @ 15%.

There have been 120 playoff games so far this decade, so, using 15% as our figure, the expected # of western playoff wins is 18. However, western teams have actually won 23 playoff games over that span: Montana with 13; Sam Houston with 3; EWU & Texas St. both with 2; NAU, Montana St., & Cal Poly each with 1.


So, in other words, the west is actually overperforming in the playoffs while the east is underperforming. The Griz are doing the bulk of the work, but they're still part of the west and would be still be the victim of any sort of hypothetical weakness in western competition. However, given that the west has noticeably more playoff wins than they should, that destroys the argument that there is any sort of weakness in the west at all.

[uofmman1122]

Que the Eastern Sports Team fan who likes to point out that the Mississippi River is not the "Real" East/West dividing line. xrolleyesx

[Hellgate60]

Let's test if Wolfman's assertion—that western teams suck in the playoffs—is true for this decade (2000-07)…


If we define the "West" as the western half of the United States (AK, HI, WA, OR, CA, ID, NV, UT, AZ, MT, WY, CO, NM, ND, SD, NE, KS, OK, & TX), just 22 of the 125 FCS teams are located in the west: the Big Sky, the Great West, the TX Southland teams, the TX SWAC teams, the Dakota States, & San Diego. That's 17.6%. However, the Dakota teams were never eligible for any of the prior playoffs while UC Davis & Northern Colorado were only eligible last year. In addition, the SWAC teams are effectively not allowed to participate in the playoffs, so that leaves us with just 14 teams. St. Mary's & CS-Northridge did still have football early this decade, so let's put an approximate figure of eligible western playoff teams over that span @ 15%.

There have been 120 playoff games so far this decade, so, using 15% as our figure, the expected # of western playoff wins is 18. However, western teams have actually won 23 playoff games over that span: Montana with 13; Sam Houston with 3; EWU & Texas St. both with 2; NAU, Montana St., & Cal Poly each with 1.


So, in other words, the west is actually overperforming in the playoffs while the east is underperforming. The Griz are doing the bulk of the work, but they're still part of the west and would be still be the victim of any sort of hypothetical weakness in western competition. However, given that the west has noticeably more playoff wins than they should, that destroys the argument that there is any sort of weakness in the west at all.

I like when people use facts. It helps prove their points xsmileyclapx

[AshevilleApp2]

Que the Eastern Sports Team fan who likes to point out that the Mississippi River is not the "Real" East/West dividing line. xrolleyesx

The Mississippi River isn't the real East/West dividing line. :D

[appfan2008]

Wolfman you have crossed the line again my firiend... Coming from an eastern team that has done quite well in the playoffs recently I do not feel that way at all... I would be scared to play montana anywhere would love to but i know they are a powerful team!!!... same goes for cal poly and possibly weber and nau... you are crazy

[GtFllsGriz]

Great post mv! That was quite interesting and very informative. thanks for using fact to trump emotion!

[Pitz]

Let's test if Wolfman's assertion—that western teams suck in the playoffs—is true for this decade (2000-07)…


If we define the "West" as the western half of the United States (AK, HI, WA, OR, CA, ID, NV, UT, AZ, MT, WY, CO, NM, ND, SD, NE, KS, OK, & TX), just 22 of the 125 FCS teams are located in the west: the Big Sky, the Great West, the TX Southland teams, the TX SWAC teams, the Dakota States, & San Diego. That's 17.6%. However, the Dakota teams were never eligible for any of the prior playoffs while UC Davis & Northern Colorado were only eligible last year. In addition, the SWAC teams are effectively not allowed to participate in the playoffs, so that leaves us with just 14 teams. St. Mary's & CS-Northridge did still have football early this decade, so let's put an approximate figure of eligible western playoff teams over that span @ 15%.

There have been 120 playoff games so far this decade, so, using 15% as our figure, the expected # of western playoff wins is 18. However, western teams have actually won 23 playoff games over that span: Montana with 13; Sam Houston with 3; EWU & Texas St. both with 2; NAU, Montana St., & Cal Poly each with 1.


So, in other words, the west is actually overperforming in the playoffs while the east is underperforming. The Griz are doing the bulk of the work, but they're still part of the west and would be still be the victim of any sort of hypothetical weakness in western competition. However, given that the west has noticeably more playoff wins than they should, that destroys the argument that there is any sort of weakness in the west at all.

While we're still wearing the math pants, let's go ahead and subtract the appx. 30 teams that make up the Ivy League, Pioneer (sans San Diego), NEC and the non-TX SWAC.

And yes, I do realize the Pioneer and NEC teams are playoff eligible, but I think most would agree they can easily skew these statistics in this agrument.

Having said that, I still feel the Big Sky (especially this year) is one of the top four conferences in the FCS along with the CAA, SoCon and MVFC. Throw Cal Poly into the mix and I feel the ratio of good teams in the west vs. the east balances out pretty well.

[patssle]

There have been 120 playoff games so far this decade, so, using 15% as our figure, the expected # of western playoff wins is 18. However, western teams have actually won 23 playoff games over that span: Montana with 13; Sam Houston with 3; EWU & Texas St. both with 2; NAU, Montana St., & Cal Poly each with 1.

That's right EASTERN SCUM...the WEST RULES AGAIN! Secession from the EAST!

[Wolfman]

Anyone knows that you can make numbers support any argument you want. Our resident genius, Green26, does this on a daily basis.

But, the true knowledgeable football fan understands that, if one throws out all of the Eastern pretenders, like the many mid-majors, Ivy leaugers, and "black conferences", the numbers between East and West are relatively equal. Please understand that I consider McNeese, Sam Houston, and that conference to be in the West.

I am basically saying that the two strong Eastern conferences have about 7 of the top 10 teams in the nation most years. Northern Iowa sneaks in occasionally, Southern Illiinois, as does Montana. But, the real power is in these two conferences. Montana is always over-ranked now, because of their hallowed past, and great W/L record accomplished against Western patsies.

This is exactly why they get beat so often in the first round of the playoffs by some 3-loss team from one of those great Eastern conferences.

I am speaking of the Montana team under Hauck. Of course, before Bobby dumbed-down our program, we were a perrienial top-3 team nationally. And, legitably so. Those days, unfortunately, are just a memory.

Griz fans remain impressed by our regular season record, conveniently forgetting that we used to play Nevada, Boise, and Idaho in-conference, plus an annual game against a PAC-10 school. It was apples-n-oranges compared to our cup-cake schedule now. Hell, we get a woody playing Weber State now. In the 1990s, Weber was one of our gimme games! But, Hauck has been effective in reducing expectations of the Griz fan base. They will come around eventually. It may take another couple of one-n-done playoff performances by our wonder boy coach. He will oblige us once again in that area in December.

[IABison]

Outstanding...

You've moved from just bashing Hauck and the Big Sky conference to now putting down every team in the western half of the country...

Who's next... widows and orphans?

xcoffeex

[Wolfman]

Outstanding...

You've moved from just bashing Hauck and the Big Sky conference to now putting down every team in the western half of the country...

Who's next... widows and orphans?

xcoffeex


I am not bashing anyone. Merely stating the obvious, to any objective fan. Just look at the names of the teams who have won the national championship the past ten years. Then tell me the West stacks up to the East in the power rankings.

The Bison are pretenders anyway, and will never win a national championship. Be happy you get to provide amusement for the FCS teams, and not dominate in Div.II.

[89Hen]

There have been 120 playoff games so far this decade, so, using 15% as our figure, the expected # of western playoff wins is 18. However, western teams have actually won 23 playoff games over that span: Montana with 13; Sam Houston with 3; EWU & Texas St. both with 2; NAU, Montana St., & Cal Poly each with 1.


So, in other words, the west is actually overperforming in the playoffs while the east is underperforming. The Griz are doing the bulk of the work, but they're still part of the west and would be still be the victim of any sort of hypothetical weakness in western competition. However, given that the west has noticeably more playoff wins than they should, that destroys the argument that there is any sort of weakness in the west at all.
Very good use of numbers. As you may know, I'm a bit of a number cruncher myself.

To say the Griz are doing the bulk of the work is a tremendous understatement. By my math, the Griz represent 57% of the wins for the west. So using your theory of equality, that should mean there is somebody in the east who has won approximately 55 playoff games this decade. Unfortunately, the most games any one team could have won in 8 years is 32. Even AppSt who has won back to back to back titles has only won 15 (I say only as if 15 is not ungodly).

Griz = 57% of all the wins in the west
App = 15% of all the wins in the east

Great stats usually take out the anomolies. The Griz winning over half the games for the west is an anomoly. AppSt winning three NC's in a row is an anomoly. So it's really pointless to use either.

So that means the "west" has really only won 10 of 92 or 11%. :p

[UNIFanSince1983]

It all depends on what you consider west. I had always thought of us as being a 'West' team, but what do I know.

[Tailbone]

Anyone knows that you can make numbers support any argument you want. .......

While others use unsubstantiated rhetoric...........



...... legitably so. .......

Another "typo"? xconfusedx Try "legitimately".

Stevie, you are an embarrassment to the Montana education system. xnonono2x

Go away!

[appfan2008]

wow i knew you could always use statistics to say what you were trying to prove but damn... just damn

[AZGrizFan]

Anyone knows that you can make numbers support any argument you want. Our resident genius, Green26, does this on a daily basis.

But, the true knowledgeable football fan understands that, if one throws out all of the Eastern pretenders, like the many mid-majors, Ivy leaugers, and "black conferences", the numbers between East and West are relatively equal. Please understand that I consider McNeese, Sam Houston, and that conference to be in the West.

I am basically saying that the two strong Eastern conferences have about 7 of the top 10 teams in the nation most years. Northern Iowa sneaks in occasionally, Southern Illiinois, as does Montana. But, the real power is in these two conferences. Montana is always over-ranked now, because of their hallowed past, and great W/L record accomplished against Western patsies.

This is exactly why they get beat so often in the first round of the playoffs by some 3-loss team from one of those great Eastern conferences.

I am speaking of the Montana team under Hauck. Of course, before Bobby dumbed-down our program, we were a perrienial top-3 team nationally. And, legitably so. Those days, unfortunately, are just a memory.

Griz fans remain impressed by our regular season record, conveniently forgetting that we used to play Nevada, Boise, and Idaho in-conference, plus an annual game against a PAC-10 school. It was apples-n-oranges compared to our cup-cake schedule now. Hell, we get a woody playing Weber State now. In the 1990s, Weber was one of our gimme games! But, Hauck has been effective in reducing expectations of the Griz fan base. They will come around eventually. It may take another couple of one-n-done playoff performances by our wonder boy coach. He will oblige us once again in that area in December.


Anyone can make numbers support any argument they want...anyone, except YOU, apparently. xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx You quickly bash Montana's "cupcake" schedule, while in the same breath, casually dismissing the "Eastern pretenders, like the many mid-majors, Ivy leaguers, and "Black" conferences"...exactly WHO do you think those Eastern powerhouses pad THEIR schedule with every year?

Take the top three teams in the four best conferences: Montana, Weber, NAU, JMU, Villanova, UNH, ASU, Wofford, Elon, UNI, SIU, and WIU, now throw in Cal Poly, McNeese State, and ANY two other teams you want ------there ain't any gimmes there, wolfman. To expect ANY team to steamroll through the playoffs year after year after year is absolutely ludicrous. BECAUSE of the setup of I-AA, we rarely GET a patsie to come out West...at least not in recent years. Wofford? Please....the champs of the toughest conference in our division? Cal Poly? Please...they're the second best team West of the Mississippi next to Montana most years....the closest thing to a patsie we get is someone from the Southland conference. Meanwhile, Delaware gets Delaware State, UMass gets Fordham (and the year before that, Lafayette). Before getting stuck with JMU last year, ASU's two first round games were Lafayette (2005) and Coastal Carolina (2006). We'll never get a Hampton or Hofstra or Lafayette to come West. And this years gonna be even worse because the West appears more loaded than usual, as there's at LEAST 5 (and possible 6 teams coming out of BSC, GWFC and Southland (Montana, NAU, Weber, Cal Poly, McNeese, Central Arkansas)...

In just the past few years, Bobby's teams have victories over Northwestern State, UNH, SHSU, McNeese State and SIU. Losses to Wofford (1 point) UMass (2 points, semifinal game), Cal Poly (14 points) and JMU (10 points, NC Game). You remind me of the typical Yankee fan who expects his team to win the world series every year, and every year they DON'T, fire the coach, fire the GM, replace half the team.....

I wonder how you'd feel if Carpenter had made that field goal last year....never mind, I'm sure you're convinced we'd have lost by 30 to Richmond. xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

[IABison]

The Bison are pretenders anyway, and will never win a national championship.

Are you using the same crystal ball you used to say that Eastern Washington was a top 3 team this year, or did you get a new one? xeyebrowx

[89Hen]

...exactly WHO do you think those Eastern powerhouses pad THEIR schedule with every year?
Fort Lewis? :p

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Are you using the same crystal ball you used to say that Eastern Washington was a top 3 team this year, or did you get a new one? xeyebrowx

Not only that but he was using the Bison as the benchmark of how the Griz should go about their business in a post about a month or 6 weeks ago and now you are not worthy of even being in the division apparently. Odd how he uses the "Wolffacts" to whatever purpose he wants and then discards them immediately and trashes his own argument. He is obviously a man to take seriously.

[Tailbone]

Steve, I have a theory.
It won't be supported by facts, as you seem to view facts as irrelevant.

People named after pickles, who are small in stature, have less cranial capacity (by virtue of their smaller size) and are therefore less intelligent.
It is obvious to any "objective" observer that this postulate is true.
It is also apparent that most such idiots reside in small Arizona retirement communities, can't spell, and equate the strength of their argument with bellicosity.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Steve, I have a theory.
It won't be supported by facts, as you seem to view facts as irrelevant.

People named after pickles, who are small in stature, have less cranial capacity (by virtue of their smaller size) and are therefore less intelligent.
It is obvious to any "objective" observer that this postulate is true.
It is also apparent that most such idiots reside in small Arizona retirement communities, can't spell, and equate the strength of their argument with bellicosity.

I KNEW IT!

That's odd tbone, I've been telling my friends that for years but I couldn't prove it.

[AZGrizFan]

Fort Lewis=Austin Pee=Georgetown=Campbell=Bryant=Iona=Presbyterian=S avannah State=Marist=Winston-Salem=NC Central=Howard=NC A&T=Delaware State=Morgan State=Wagner=Monmouth=Robert Morris=Duquesne=St Francis and on and on and on....

The only difference between our Fort Lewis/Central Washington/New Mexico Highlands teams and YOUR cupcakes are yours are disguised as D-I schools and count towards playoff qualification. xrolleyesx

[89Hen]

The only difference between our Fort Lewis/Central Washington/New Mexico Highlands teams and YOUR cupcakes are yours are disguised as D-I schools and count towards playoff qualification. xrolleyesx
I guess.

Ouachita Baptist 58 - Fort Lewis 7
Fort Hays State 44 - New Mexico Highlands 0

[AZGrizFan]

I guess.

Ouachita Baptist 58 - Fort Lewis 7
Fort Hays State 44 - New Mexico Highlands 0

OK, wolfman. :)

[89Hen]

OK, wolfman. :)
Hey, you know I've been one of the biggest supporters of the Big Sky over the years. :)

[Tailbone]

I KNEW IT!

That's odd tbone, I've been telling my friends that for years but I couldn't prove it.

The proof is simple.

Print off some of pickleboy's posts and offer them as evidence. xrulesx

Maybe I'll post a pic of pickleboy so that everyone can see the veracity of the assertion.

[whoanellie]

The Mississippi River isn't the real East/West dividing line. :D

really ASU is west of the Eastern continental divide so is UTC, WCU Samford are they Southwest?

[sharkeycox]

Yep, we is just stoopid and slow over yonder!!xbawlingx

[McNeese75]

My fellow Montana fans do not like to admit it, but there is no mystery as to why so many Eastern FCS teams dominate the playoffs, and win national championships so often.

The fact is, the two toughest conferences beat up on each other during the regular season, much like the SEC teams do in IA. Then, when teams from weak conferences like the Big Sky have to play these Eastern teams, they usually get beat. It was not always this way, as evidenced by MOntana playing for the NC in 5 of 10 seasons. Unfortunately, things have changed in Grizland.

Just as LSU players stated after whipping Ohio State last year that they had played at least 3 SEC conference teams better than the Buckeyes, so goes it for the Eastern powers when they face one of the Big Sky teams, or Great West teams.

I will catch ***** once again for stating the truth. But, that's O.K. Facing the truth is difficult for many Griz fans. Many still whine about the "Eastern bias" from Colson and other sportwriters.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u237/brokn68/flamebait.jpg

[Grizzaholic]

Wolfman speaking



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[Grizzaholic]

Facts are worthless unless Wolfboy spouts them off, then they are facts set in stone.

[Eight Legger]

At the risk of taking as much grief as Wolfman here, I will attempt to partially defend what I think he might be getting at -- namely, that while the west has a few powerhouse teams that have historically done well and won playoff games and championships, they come from relatively weaker conferences than the eastern teams and are not tested as much during the season.

If that is his point, I would agree with it. I don't think you can stack up the SoCon or the CAA against any western conferences and conclude that the western leagues are better or as good top to bottom.

Of course, where the argument is flawed is that there are a number of eastern conferences that are also lousy when compared to the SoCon and CAA. The Patriot League or OVC are not going to churn out 5 potential playoff teams anytime soon. Neither will the Big Sky.

I think what it comes down to is that there are two great eastern conferences and one potentially great west/midwestern conference (Gateway). Whether or not geography has much to do with this argument, who knows.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

At the risk of taking as much grief as Wolfman here, I will attempt to partially defend what I think he might be getting at -- namely, that while the west has a few powerhouse teams that have historically done well and won playoff games and championships, they come from relatively weaker conferences than the eastern teams and are not tested as much during the season.

If that is his point, I would agree with it. I don't think you can stack up the SoCon or the CAA against any western conferences and conclude that the western leagues are better or as good top to bottom.

Of course, where the argument is flawed is that there are a number of eastern conferences that are also lousy when compared to the SoCon and CAA. The Patriot League or OVC are not going to churn out 5 potential playoff teams anytime soon. Neither will the Big Sky.

I think what it comes down to is that there are two great eastern conferences and one potentially great west/midwestern conference (Gateway). Whether or not geography has much to do with this argument, who knows.

There are only a couple of powerhouse teams out west but there are also only a few conferences so that makes it tough for a lot of other teams from those conferences to make any noise in the playoffs.

If you check the GPI over the last 8-10 years you'll see that the Big Sky has frequently been rated above the SoCon and is normally in the top 3 or 4.

[Wolfman]

While others use unsubstantiated rhetoric............clown.xoopsx




Another "typo"? xconfusedx Try "legitimately".

Stevie, you are an embarrassment to the Montana education system. xnonono2x

Go away!


Tailbone

[89Hen]

If you check the GPI...
xoopsx xnonono2x xoopsx

[Wolfman]

Very good use of numbers. As you may know, I'm a bit of a number cruncher myself.

To say the Griz are doing the bulk of the work is a tremendous understatement. By my math, the Griz represent 57% of the wins for the west. So using your theory of equality, that should mean there is somebody in the east who has won approximately 55 playoff games this decade. Unfortunately, the most games any one team could have won in 8 years is 32. Even AppSt who has won back to back to back titles has only won 15 (I say only as if 15 is not ungodly).

Griz = 57% of all the wins in the west
App = 15% of all the wins in the east

Great stats usually take out the anomolies. The Griz winning over half the games for the west is an anomoly. AppSt winning three NC's in a row is an anomoly. So it's really pointless to use either.

So that means the "west" has really only won 10 of 92 or 11%. :p


Thanks for proving my point. It really is pretty easy making these sugar coating homers look stupid. Most FCS fans understand what I am up against with these guys.

Just remember one thing: Bobby Hauck has the IA athletic directors drawing straws to see who can hire him first. xsmiley_wix

[ursus arctos horribilis]

xoopsx xnonono2x xoopsx

Hey hen I'll use what i got...the Western teams do comparatively well in the playoffs so I don't know what else to go by. I didn't want to just use emotion as a catalyst for the stance.

[RationalGriz]

I guess this means there are no good Western teams on any level and it must be because there are no good players on the Left Coast.

[kirkblitz]

not enough black people in the west? xeekx

[IABison]

I guess this means there are no good Western teams on any level and it must be because there are no good players on the Left Coast.

That could change if enough griz fans demanded that wolfboy became head coach... xsmiley_wix

[89Hen]

Western teams do comparatively well in the playoffs so I don't know what else to go by.
Then use that... just don't use the computers. Don't forget, I think the GPI is bad because of the computers involved. When it comes to conference rankings, it's 90% computers because most I-AA teams aren't ranked (only 30ish) in the various human polls. I've seen these computer models implode on themselves where they will have a 3-8 team in the CAA or Big Sky a lot higher than they should be simply because other teams in their conference are ranked higher. This inflated ranking pushes their entire conference up. One of the computer guys told me this didn't happen, but couldn't show anything to back it up. Me showing him a 3-8 team ranked 42 in the nation was all the proof I needed. xpeacex

[wideright82]

not enough black people in the west? xeekx


Finally, the right theory, lol. xbowx


No but seriously, could it have anything to do with a lesser possibility of going to the league in FCS, so the players would like to at least take advantage of the education they can get at some of the great schools in the east that fall under the FCS. Keep in mind I am from the east and really dont know ANYTHING about the caliber of school of the Western FCS schools.

[putter]

Hey, you know I've been one of the biggest supporters of the Big Sky over the years. :)

89 Hen, say what????????? xrolleyesx xsmiley_wix

[Wolfman]

Relatively speaking, yes, there is a lack of black players in the West compared to the East. So, after the IA schools get done skimming the cream in California, there are fewer quality skill players for the Western FCS teams.

I understand that this is a politically incorrect statement, but I am a Republican, and don't concern myself with being politically correct. The truth is all that matters. The truth is hard to swallow for many. Just take a big gulp and drink alot..... it goes down rather easily.

Notice how the Griz sugar coaters have mysteriously vanished after my theory was supported by many national fans????? The lead sheep must have made his getaway.

[AZGrizFan]

Very good use of numbers. As you may know, I'm a bit of a number cruncher myself.

To say the Griz are doing the bulk of the work is a tremendous understatement. By my math, the Griz represent 57% of the wins for the west. So using your theory of equality, that should mean there is somebody in the east who has won approximately 55 playoff games this decade. Unfortunately, the most games any one team could have won in 8 years is 32. Even AppSt who has won back to back to back titles has only won 15 (I say only as if 15 is not ungodly).

Griz = 57% of all the wins in the west
App = 15% of all the wins in the east

Great stats usually take out the anomolies. The Griz winning over half the games for the west is an anomoly. AppSt winning three NC's in a row is an anomoly. So it's really pointless to use either.

So that means the "west" has really only won 10 of 92 or 11%. :p

OK. The Griz are doing to bulk of the work. Agreed. But lets take last year, for example....16 teams, only four from West of the Mississippi. Two of those played EACH OTHER in the first round, and ALL THREE were put in the same half of the bracket! McNeese draws EWU and Montana is forced to play Wofford??? No Eastern Kentucky? No Delaware State? No Fordham? No Eastern Illinois? WTF? BOTH OVC teams are MUCH closer to Montana than Wofford, yet it's WOFFORD that gets screwed by being sent to Montana and MONTANA that gets screwed by having to play the SoCon champ instead of a patsie like UMass, Delaware, SIU and Richmond got...How in the hell are we supposed to improve these numbers if we're forced to beat up on each other year after year?

And this year will be no different, I'm sure. If, by the grace of God, the committee sees it in their hearts to award Montana, Weber, NAU, Cal Poly, McNeese, Central Arkansas (they're eligible, right?) and UNI ALL bids, they'll ALL be in the same half of the bracket beating up on each other. But, we don't have to worry about all this. ECB will NEVER allow 7 teams from west of the Mighty Mississip to be in the tourney. Sorry McNeese, sorry NAU....you guys are fcuked. xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

[AZGrizFan]

Relatively speaking, yes, there is a lack of black players in the West compared to the East. So, after the IA schools get done skimming the cream in California, there are fewer quality skill players for the Western FCS teams.

I understand that this is a politically incorrect statement, but I am a Republican, and don't concern myself with being politically correct. The truth is all that matters. The truth is hard to swallow for many. Just take a big gulp and drink alot..... it goes down rather easily.

Notice how the Griz sugar coaters have mysteriously vanished after my theory was supported by many national fans????? The lead sheep must have made his getaway.

So now TWO is "many"? xeyebrowx

[DuckDuckGriz]

Relatively speaking, yes, there is a lack of black players in the West compared to the East. So, after the IA schools get done skimming the cream in California, there are fewer quality skill players for the Western FCS teams.

I understand that this is a politically incorrect statement, but I am a Republican, and don't concern myself with being politically correct. The truth is all that matters. The truth is hard to swallow for many. Just take a big gulp and drink alot..... it goes down rather easily.

Notice how the Griz sugar coaters have mysteriously vanished after my theory was supported by many national fans????? The lead sheep must have made his getaway.

I know the attention you're seeking is hard to gain, little fella. Hang in there.

[gr8ness97]

This thread is fail on so many levels....OP give it up

[Wolfman]

This thread is fail on so many levels....OP give it up

No one held a gun to your head to read it. Go away if you don't wish to participate!

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Anyone knows that you can make numbers support any argument you want. Our resident genius, Green26, does this on a daily basis.

But, the true knowledgeable football fan understands that, if one throws out all of the Eastern pretenders, like the many mid-majors, Ivy leaugers, and "black conferences", the numbers between East and West are relatively equal. Please understand that I consider McNeese, Sam Houston, and that conference to be in the West.

I am basically saying that the two strong Eastern conferences have about 7 of the top 10 teams in the nation most years. Northern Iowa sneaks in occasionally, Southern Illiinois, as does Montana. But, the real power is in these two conferences. Montana is always over-ranked now, because of their hallowed past, and great W/L record accomplished against Western patsies.

This is exactly why they get beat so often in the first round of the playoffs by some 3-loss team from one of those great Eastern conferences.

I am speaking of the Montana team under Hauck. Of course, before Bobby dumbed-down our program, we were a perrienial top-3 team nationally. And, legitably so. Those days, unfortunately, are just a memory.

Griz fans remain impressed by our regular season record, conveniently forgetting that we used to play Nevada, Boise, and Idaho in-conference, plus an annual game against a PAC-10 school. It was apples-n-oranges compared to our cup-cake schedule now. Hell, we get a woody playing Weber State now. In the 1990s, Weber was one of our gimme games! But, Hauck has been effective in reducing expectations of the Griz fan base. They will come around eventually. It may take another couple of one-n-done playoff performances by our wonder boy coach. He will oblige us once again in that area in December.

You had me at "Anyone knows"... xrotatehx

Then you threw in "legitably" and I was just overwhelmed. xlolx xlolx xlolx

[AZGrizFan]

You had me at "Anyone knows"... xrotatehx

Then you threw in "legitably" and I was just overwhelmed. xlolx xlolx xlolx



Ivy leaugers
perrienial
legitably



The irony of these misspellings in a thread about "dumbing down".... ;)

[RationalGriz]

Wolfy, I think you just made an excuse for your enemy number 1, Bobby Hauck. The Griz struggles have nothing to do with him and his decisions, it has more to do with the lack of talent in the West.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Wolfy, I think you just made an excuse for your enemy number 1, Bobby Hauck. The Griz struggles have nothing to do with him and his decisions, it has more to do with the lack of talent in the West.

Not only that but he thanked 89Hen for saying that Montana accounts for 57% of the playoff wins when all he can do is talk about 1st round losses. Whatever fits his argument at the time will be used.

[Tailbone]

...... The truth is all that matters. ......


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I don't care who you are.....coming from you Wolfie, THAT'S FUNNY!

[gbhmt]

There's less talent to recruit in the West, it's as simple as that. The fact that teams like Montana can build their teams around mostly home-grown players is somewhat remarkable, but pay the price with mediocre-to-poor recruiting. Which is what has happened with Hauck's staff, they just can't recruit like Glenn did.

[mvemjsunpx]

Very good use of numbers. As you may know, I'm a bit of a number cruncher myself.

To say the Griz are doing the bulk of the work is a tremendous understatement. By my math, the Griz represent 57% of the wins for the west. So using your theory of equality, that should mean there is somebody in the east who has won approximately 55 playoff games this decade. Unfortunately, the most games any one team could have won in 8 years is 32. Even AppSt who has won back to back to back titles has only won 15 (I say only as if 15 is not ungodly).

Griz = 57% of all the wins in the west
App = 15% of all the wins in the east

Great stats usually take out the anomolies. The Griz winning over half the games for the west is an anomoly. AppSt winning three NC's in a row is an anomoly. So it's really pointless to use either.

So that means the "west" has really only won 10 of 92 or 11%. :p


That's an understandable point, but Wolfman's argument was that the Griz allegedly don't do well in the playoffs because the west is allegedly weak. If you take Montana out of the equation (& App, as well, on the other side), other teams would have to take their place because a) other teams would get all those auto-bids & b) the would-be Griz opponents wouldn't have extra losses to the Griz, leaving more western teams open for at-large bids. More other western teams would then get in the playoffs & presumably get more playoff wins. 13 wins? Probably not, but certainly more than 0.

In other words, Montana (or App State in the east) is a part & an example of how good or bad the west is. If Montana is discounted, it's not like others wouldn't replace them to some extent. Their postseason success is a direct consequence of who they beat to get that far. You can't just remove them and make a fair argument.

Of course, as I pointed out earlier, the Griz have been a good postseason team (as have several other western teams), so this whole argument about the weakness of the west is bunk because the assumptions it is based on are false.

[GolfingGriz]

There's less talent to recruit in the West, it's as simple as that. The fact that teams like Montana can build their teams around mostly home-grown players is somewhat remarkable, but pay the price with mediocre-to-poor recruiting. Which is what has happened with Hauck's staff, they just can't recruit like Glenn did.

Maybe some other Grizzly fans can back me up, but I always thought Glenn's recruiting was rather weak. Where as Hauck's recruiting has been better.

[gbhmt]

Maybe some other Grizzly fans can back me up, but I always thought Glenn's recruiting was rather weak. Where as Hauck's recruiting has been better.

Hauck's seen far fewer notables in his tenure and a curious amount of them are from Montana, not much of a recruiting challenge. He's also got a habit of turning down players that end up coming back to haunt him.

[skinny_uncle]

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h13/skinny_uncle/samp25d6983070d8c3a5.jpg

[skinny_uncle]

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h13/skinny_uncle/sampabb3738b0a1c4ca9.jpg

[skinny_uncle]

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h13/skinny_uncle/sampb808bb914081d21a.jpg

[coover]

It all depends on what you consider west. I had always thought of us as being a 'West' team, but what do I know.

The following is not meant to be an insult, so if it seems that way, I apologize now ....

From my point of view here in California, I do not understand how Iowa could ever be considered "West". Heck, Iowa isn't even west of Nebraska, which looks to me to be a "Central" State.

But what do I know? Michigan has a fight song in which they proclaim themselves "the champions of the west".

[UNIFanSince1983]

Well I know I would call us Central, but we are just going with west and east. And the fact remains there are so many more FCS teams east of the mississippi. I don't think we really fall in either category, but nobody brought up the central as a category...Apparently the central is so weak it doesn't even bear mention in this conversation. Or we are being lumped in either east or west in which I don't know

Coover: I do not take what you said as an insult at all.