SoCon vs. CAA annual football weekend

[Saint3333]

http://www.goasu.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=21500&ATCLID=1605386

"This idea centers on the development of an annual six-game challenge weekend that pits the SoCon against the CAA. Teams could easily rotate through the slots to allow for flexibility in previously scheduled games but steps should also be made to ensure that each team appears at least once over a three-year period. Both leagues boast strong regional television packages and could use their negotiating power as two of the premier mid-major leagues in the NCAA Division I sporting world to work toward national coverage for the most desirable matchups each year.

Imagine the media attention this could generate on the East Coast if played correctly. Bragging rights could be battled for from Maine to Alabama and nearly every state in between. Opportunities for revenue generation from advertising, television exposure, satellite radio and campus- and community-based publicity could even help provide for some of the travel expenses to the schools that may face a bit more extended jaunt than others.

If the Football Championship Subdivision is to grow forward, especially with expansion of the playoff field on the very near horizon, the timing of the announcement of a series like this could further strengthen the group’s play to the football-viewing masses. Why not let two of the strongest conferences within the FCS make a bold statement of desired competition between the two rather than listen to the rambling voice of a coach trying to win the head-to-head battle through matters of public opinion?"

Going to a 12 game schedule with 2 extra autobids, other than travel I don't see a negative here. It would give the fans decent OOC matchups instead of West Chester and Jacksonville.

[woffordgrad94]

Great idea. Matchps could be decided based somewhat (but maybe not entirely)on schools' final place in their conferences standings the year before, so you wouldn't have bad matchups that could likely be blowouts.

Here are some ideas for 2009 (I also tried to create new matchup of teams that haven't recently played each other- regular season or playoffs)

Elon vs. James Madison
Appalachian State vs. Villanova
Wofford vs. Massachusetts
Furman vs. Richmond
The Citadel vs. Hofstra
Georgia Southern vs. New Hampshire

[mainejeff]

Great for the Southern half of the CAA.......xrolleyesx

I'd like to see a CAA/Patriot challenge for the Northern CAA members:

Maine/Colgate
UNH/Holy Cross
Northeastern/Fordham
URI/Georgetown
UMass/Lehigh
Hofstra/Bucknell

[mcveyrl]

This has the potential for great matchups, but I think we have to have an 11-game schedule once the playoffs expand. Plus, I think we have all of our OOC matchups for at least next year.

But, there was a rumor that we were in talks with App to open their new facility next year and they would return the favor in 2012. I don't think that can happen with the way our schedule is now.

[appfan2008]

Can you say SPLIT the conference!

[BDKJMU]

Great for the Southern half of the CAA.......xrolleyesx

I'd like to see a CAA/Patriot challenge for the Northern CAA members:

Maine/Colgate
UNH/Holy Cross
Northeastern/Fordham
URI/Georgetown
UMass/Lehigh
Hofstra/Bucknell

Well, with all due respect to the patriot, that would be much easier on the CAA North teams.

[gophoenix]

I like this and completely agree with it being played.

I don't see how this benefits the CAA South more than the CAA North. You take the top teams of the league or you take the teams with similar GPI from the year before and set up games like that:
App vs JMU
Villanova vs Wofford
Richmond vs Elon
UMass/New Hampshire vs Furman
Georgia Southern vs Northeastern/William & Mary
The Citadel vs Maine/Delaware
Samford vs Hofstra
Towson vs Western Carolina
Rhode Island vs UTC

That would be about how it would line up so far this year. And the CAA would be 2-1 right now if that were the case.

Only problem is, it is easy to tell 9 SoCon teams to block off 1 game of the schedule because they could all be used in the CAA/SoCon challenge. Unfortunately, how do you decide which 9 teams of the CAA to tell not to schedule a game. And how do you decide who has the home game so that schools know how many home games they have before the end of the previous season?

[BDKJMU]

Probably won't work, at least not with the CAA North teams, because of this:
http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/sports.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2008-10-14-0099.html

Don't the expanded playoffs start next year? That means the playoffs starting a week earlier, and only 11 games for everyone. Outside of 8 league games and a money making I-A, most teams are going to be looking to schedule closer to home due to rising travel costs as laid out in the above article. Therefore, I couldn't see the CAA North teams getting into this. Plus, I don't see UD agreeing to annual home and home with So-Con teams, not when they have so many NEC and Patriot within 3-4 hrs drive, plus some other nearby schools within an hr or 2 like DSU, Penn, Princeton, etc they could probably get to come for a one and done. And they're still playing DII West Chester every season. That leaves you with Towson, JMU, UR, W&M, and ODU, and a few years from now, GSU. For JMU, UR, W&M and soon to be ODU, there is 4 other I-AAs in VA:
-VMI
-Liberty
-Hampton
-Norfolk State

Usually JMU, UR, & W&M play one of those:
-W&M played VMI and Norfolk State
-UR played VMI
-JMU has played VMI the last couple of years, was schedule to play Liberty this season before it was cancelled, and is scheduled to play Liberty the next several years).

Sure, I could see some of the CAA South teams occasionally scheduling a So-Con, for ex JMU vs ASU and JMU is only about 210 miles from Elon, but I don't see an annual CAA vs SO-Con thing ever happening.

[Jackman]

Great for the Southern half of the CAA.......xrolleyesx

I'd like to see a CAA/Patriot challenge for the Northern CAA members:

Maine/Colgate
UNH/Holy Cross
Northeastern/Fordham
URI/Georgetown
UMass/Lehigh
Hofstra/Bucknell

UMass just started a series with Holy Cross, we have at least 3 more games to go.

Now that we're being limited to 11 straight games starting 2010, our schedule is probably going to look like this for the foreseeable future:

5 CAA North
3 CAA South
1 Holy Cross
1 FBS opponent
1 cupcake to follow the FBS opponent in place of a bye

There's no room for a SoCon opponent unless they push back the playoffs and allow us a 12th game.

Edit: Besides, isn't the CAA/SoCon Challenge otherwise known as the FCS Playoffs?

[gophoenix]

UMass just started a series with Holy Cross, we have at least 3 more games to go.

Now that we're being limited to 11 straight games starting 2010, our schedule is probably going to look like this for the foreseeable future:

5 CAA North
3 CAA South
1 Holy Cross
1 FBS opponent
1 cupcake to follow the FBS opponent in place of a bye

There's no room for a SoCon opponent unless they push back the playoffs and allow us a 12th game.

Edit: Besides, isn't the CAA/SoCon Challenge otherwise known as the FCS Playoffs?

Or you suck it up and play a tough opponent????

I mean, how is this different than say:
8 SoCon games
1 FBS
1 Liberty/A&T/Presbyterian rivalry type game
1 cupcake?

[woffordgrad94]

Do you have to play a "cupcake"?

[gophoenix]

Probably won't work, at least not with the CAA North teams, because of this:
http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/sports.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2008-10-14-0099.html

Don't the expanded playoffs start next year? That means the playoffs starting a week earlier, and only 11 games for everyone. Outside of 8 league games and a money making I-A, most teams are going to be looking to schedule closer to home due to rising travel costs as laid out in the above article. Therefore, I couldn't see the CAA North teams getting into this. Plus, I don't see UD agreeing to annual home and home with So-Con teams, not when they have so many NEC and Patriot within 3-4 hrs drive, plus some other nearby schools within an hr or 2 like DSU, Penn, Princeton, etc they could probably get to come for a one and done. And they're still playing DII West Chester every season. That leaves you with Towson, MU, UR, W&M, and ODU, and a few years from now, GSU. For JMU, UR, W&M and soon to be ODU, there is 4 other I-AAs in VA:
-VMI
-Liberty
-Hampton
-Norfolk State

Usually JMU, UR, & W&M play one of those:
-W&M played VMI and Norfolk State
-UR played VMI
-JMU has played VMI the last couple of years, was schedule to play Liberty this season before it was cancelled, and is scheduled to play Liberty the next several years).

Sure, I could see some of the CAA South teams occasionally scheduling a So-Con, for ex JMU vs ASU and JMU is only about 210 miles from Elon, but I don't see an annual CAA vs SO-Con thing ever happening.

I think Elon is the only SoCOn team that has been regularly playing CAA teams yearly since being DI with Hofstra, JMU, Richmond, Towson being almost yearly opponents for 10 years now. Elon is by far closer to CAA schools that nearly any other SoCon member.

[Appstate29]

this is definitely something that would spark a lot of interest. It needs to happen, or at the very least from ASU perspective a yearly game with JMU. We are not going to continue putting in 30k plus for Jacksonville

[Pitz]

Edit: Besides, isn't the CAA/SoCon Challenge otherwise known as the FCS Playoffs?

Zing.

[Jackman]

Do you have to play a "cupcake"?
We've always scheduled our bye week to follow the FBS games to allow for extra time to recover from minor injuries. I don't subscribe to the notion that playing FBS teams increases the risk of serious injuries, but increased minor injuries, such as muscle strains from battling heavier, stronger opponents, do seem to go hand-in-hand with these games. If the NCAA is going to make us play 11 games in a row without a break, then to preserve the FBS games we need to schedule our weakest non-conference opponent right after them. If Holy Cross starts to suck, that could be them, but if not then we're probably talking about a NEC opponent. They're going to be an autobid conference. Somebody's gotta play them.

[Black Saturday]

http://www.goasu.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=21500&ATCLID=1605386

"This idea centers on the development of an annual six-game challenge weekend that pits the SoCon against the CAA. Teams could easily rotate through the slots to allow for flexibility in previously scheduled games but steps should also be made to ensure that each team appears at least once over a three-year period. Both leagues boast strong regional television packages and could use their negotiating power as two of the premier mid-major leagues in the NCAA Division I sporting world to work toward national coverage for the most desirable matchups each year.

Imagine the media attention this could generate on the East Coast if played correctly. Bragging rights could be battled for from Maine to Alabama and nearly every state in between. Opportunities for revenue generation from advertising, television exposure, satellite radio and campus- and community-based publicity could even help provide for some of the travel expenses to the schools that may face a bit more extended jaunt than others.

If the Football Championship Subdivision is to grow forward, especially with expansion of the playoff field on the very near horizon, the timing of the announcement of a series like this could further strengthen the group’s play to the football-viewing masses. Why not let two of the strongest conferences within the FCS make a bold statement of desired competition between the two rather than listen to the rambling voice of a coach trying to win the head-to-head battle through matters of public opinion?"

Going to a 12 game schedule with 2 extra autobids, other than travel I don't see a negative here. It would give the fans decent OOC matchups instead of West Chester and Jacksonville.

I'd like to see the CAA pare down and all play each other or have a Championship game to determine a real champ.

[unipanthers8907]

I think this would be a great idea!

[BDKJMU]

this is definitely something that would spark a lot of interest. It needs to happen, or at the very least from ASU perspective a yearly game with JMU. We are not going to continue putting in 30k plus for Jacksonville

ASU had a home game with over 30k listed attendance?

[mainejeff]

Well, with all due respect to the patriot, that would be much easier on the CAA North teams.

Yeah......travelwise. We play enough Southern teams in our own conference. xrolleyesx

[AshevilleApp2]

ASU had a home game with over 30k listed attendance?

Yeah. The first home game against Jacksonville State.

[danefan]

Yeah. The first home game against Jacksonville State.

Jacksonville U, not state.

[WUTNDITWAA]

Jacsonville U, not state.

Yeah. Jax State would've been very attractive.

[danefan]

Yeah. Jax State would've been very attractive.

What a story it would have been too. Play at LSU and then against Periloux (excuse the spelling).

[DunkandDukin]

Yeah. The first home game against Jacksonville State.
how'd you all pull that off? Meaning- we could have packed in 30 or some # for the game aginst you guys, but can't legally do that. Fire code/Marshals, maybe bathroom restrictions xlolx or some other nonsense etc.
We have done SRO for some games and have expanded the temp endzone seating but couldn't come anywhere near accomodating the demand for that game. How can you get away with 30k in a stadium that otherwise seats what? 19k?

[th0m]

Grass hills/endzones?

[mcveyrl]

Yea, I've seen a couple of pictures from that game. Pretty impressive.

[danefan]

how'd you all pull that off? Meaning- we could have packed in 30 or some # for the game aginst you guys, but can't legally do that. Fire code/Marshals, maybe bathroom restrictions xlolx or some other nonsense etc.
We have done SRO for some games and have expanded the temp endzone seating but couldn't come anywhere near accomodating the demand for that game. How can you get away with 30k in a stadium that otherwise seats what? 19k?

look at attendance figures from the NCAA.
http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/Internet/attendance/IAA_AVGATTENDANCE.pdf


App state operated at 145.56% above capacity last year.

JMU was 116.09% above capacity.

It all depends on what the reported capacity is.

[WUTNDITWAA]

how'd you all pull that off? Meaning- we could have packed in 30 or some # for the game aginst you guys, but can't legally do that. Fire code/Marshals, maybe bathroom restrictions xlolx or some other nonsense etc.
We have done SRO for some games and have expanded the temp endzone seating but couldn't come anywhere near accomodating the demand for that game. How can you get away with 30k in a stadium that otherwise seats what? 19k?

A grass hill behind one end zone, and the student section is packed in quite tight. Come down and see for yourself one time. The new support facilities (restrooms/concessions) are built for 30,000.

[BDKJMU]

look at attendance figures from the NCAA.
http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/Internet/attendance/IAA_AVGATTENDANCE.pdf


App state operated at 145.56% above capacity last year.

JMU was 116.09% above capacity.

It all depends on what the reported capacity is.

I imagine capacity is usually how many seats they have (not including pressbox, sideline & endzone SRO, etc. In cases of gen admission seating maybe some schools oversell that a little figuring you're always going to have a percentage of no shows. In JMU's case if 16k tickets including no cost student, gen admission & limited SRO are sold but 14k show up at the game, attendance is still listed at 16k.

[WUTNDITWAA]

I imagine capacity is usually how many seats they have (not including pressbox, sideline & endzone SRO, etc. In cases of gen admission seating maybe some schools oversell that a little figuring you're always going to have a percentage of no shows. In JMU's case if 16k tickets including no cost student, gen admission & limited SRO are sold but 14k show up at the game, attendance is still listed at 16k.

They say the reported attendance is what actually comes through the gate, but I don't believe it.

[URMite]

They say the reported attendance is what actually comes through the gate, but I don't believe it.

I shouldn't open this can of worms again but...our figures have been all over the place over the years...sometimes it seems like we took revenue divided by face value and under reported (not adjusting for students, comps, and discounts)...other times we seemed to take total # of tickets out of the hands of the ticket office and over reported (if we don't have the ticket you must be there). Last couple of years tickets are scanned at the gate, so I know they could have an accurate count, the question is do they use it?

Back to scheduling, we have played Elon, ASU, Wofford, and Furman recently but I think it has been a while since The Citadel. And I don't think we have played GSU (without checking).

I did see that JMU had a series with GSU from '85-'92 and won the first one xeekx , pretty good for back then.

I'm not sure it can all be one weekend, but at least 3 matchups each regular season would be great.

[ccd494]

I'd rather play Albany or Stony Brook.

[ElonFirefighter]

You could also make a trophy awarded to the conference that wins the most games that day. Have a tie breaker in there in case its even

[apaladin]

I think Elon is the only SoCOn team that has been regularly playing CAA teams yearly since being DI with Hofstra, JMU, Richmond, Towson being almost yearly opponents for 10 years now. Elon is by far closer to CAA schools that nearly any other SoCon member.

Furman has recently had home and home with Richmond(2-0) and Hofstra(1-1) and is in the middle of a home and home with UD(1-0).

[Saint3333]

I'd rather play Albany or Stony Brook.

Some CAA schools just aren't as serious about their football programs.

[ccd494]

Some CAA schools just aren't as serious about their football programs.

How "seriously" Maine takes football has nothing to do with it.

We play Albany and Stony Brook in every other sport. They are in our basketball conference. They now have full scholarships (or are getting there). Why wouldn't we rather continue playing them instead of getting stuck with Samford, Western Carolina or Chattanooga? There's no way this "agreement" would end up with Maine getting home games against any of the bigger SoCon schools. I'd rather do home and homes with our America East league mates.

If JMU or Richmond or W&M or whoever wants to "formalize" a home and home against a SoCon team, let them. There is just no benefit to this at all to Maine. Schools can be creative and get things done without the conference mandating who the rest of the league plays in the non-conference. Maine, Montana and Northern Colorado developed the "Battle of the Bears" a few years ago which was a two year, three team home and home and home scheduling agreement. Do that instead of making Maine pay to go to Cullowhee for a return game that (unless it is App) will not draw any more than Stony Brook or Albany (and probably less because more people will recognize the SUNYs from America East).

[Saint3333]

Maine used to have a good team (2002), so they could get a good game.

Maybe Maine should join the American East for football.

[ccd494]

Maine used to have a good team (2002), so they could get a good game.

Maybe Maine should join the American East for football.

xconfusedx

So you are telling me that under this arrangement, teams like App State and Georgia Southern and Wofford aren't going to bitch and moan if they get sent to Orono or Durham or Kingston? Those aren't cheap trips. Because let me tell you, a team like Maine that loses money on its program would have a hard time justifying going to South Carolina for a game.

[93henfan]

Plus, I don't see UD agreeing to annual home and home with So-Con teams

Dude, wtf are you talking about? UD has had home and homes with three different SoCon schools this decade alone (Georgia Southern, Furman, and The Citadel). Can any other CAA school say the same?

[Saint3333]

Yes that's what I'm saying. Depending on whose turn it was for a home game in the series of CAA/SoCon games Maine could host a ASU/GSU/Furman. Hopefully the additional tickets that you would sale would cover the costs for the away game the next year. Maybe a TV package could be put together for ESPNU.

[smcwildcat]

stop talking micky.....just so the attention is off his team... so annoying

let your team play stop talking.