Interesting article regarding the future of CAA Football

[mainejeff]

Some hints of what might be to come including a January meeting that might bring change to CAA Football. Should be interesting.

http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/sports.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2008-10-14-0099.html

[R3TRO]

Very interesting...

[DSUrocks07]

Looks like a conference shakeup is in the future of FCS football as well...xnodx

[danefan]

Very interesting. Travel costs could play a huge role here.

I can't wait for that January meeting.

[89Hen]

said Yeager, "a lot of dynamics have to sort themselves out."
Well, hopefully he isn't going to wait for the dynamics to really sort themselves out. I would hope he'd have some input to that. xeyebrowx xsmiley_wix

[danefan]

What do you guys think this means?


But January's meeting is expected to involve an unvarnished examination of which league schools are committed to what Yeager called the "different competitive emphasis" that CAA football acquired in recent years.

[The Cats]

What do you guys think this means?

IMO, some teams are going to seek other conferences.......

[appfan2008]

that is an interesting line... makes you wonder if the schools that dont put out the money will get dropped????

[89Hen]

What do you guys think this means?
They want NU and URI to leave? xeyebrowx

[danefan]

They want NU and URI to leave? xeyebrowx

What about Maine and Hofstra?

What would they base it on? Money? Or on-field success?

On-field success is a tough one. There has to be some losers in the conference. Its the natural order of things.

[whitey]

They want NU and URI to leave? xeyebrowx

The first school that came to mind for me was Northeastern as well. But do they only give their football team the boot?

[89Hen]

What about Maine and Hofstra?

What would they base it on? Money? Or on-field success?

On-field success is a tough one. There has to be some losers in the conference. Its the natural order of things.
Money, on-field success, facilities... the whole thing.

[Dane96]

And Hofstra would mean them kicking out the Pride from the all-sports league. Tenuous...same with NU.

Maybe both go to the Patriot.

Does Albany and SBU get an invite if they spend $$$.

So many options here.

[PurpleandGold]

I would think that they'd want to have a couple teams leave to make room for ODU and GSU, not Albany and SBU. Sorry. I would also think that they'd want to stick with all sports members.

[wideright82]

I think we may be saying goodbye to one or two teams from the CAA north. Slide Nova and Del up to the north to make room for ODU and GSU. Or someone over on the CAAZone has said potentially adding 2 teams in addition to ODU and GSU then splitting the conference in to 2 8 team conferences. Or, no idea? xrotatehx

[Dane96]

I meant all-sports.

If UMASS moves up...if URI, UNH, Maine, NU, Hofstra get jettisoned..schools who can compete because of cost would be Albany (out of state costs are much cheaper (by more than half) of NU and HU full rides in all-sports).

It is interesting...though i am not sure likely.

[Seawolf97]

This is going to be an interesting story to follow. Seems to go along to some degree what many have posted about a big shake up in Northeast FCS football coming. All kinds of possibilities -new conference, teams going to other conferences.

[URMite]

What do you guys think this means?

What is interesting is that line sounds more like a commitment to football than a commitment to the conference...

UNH/UMass/VU/UR are football only (or nearly only) but seem to have solid programs. Maine? xconfusedx URI? They are trying now...

NU seems like the all-conf member having the most trouble with football.

So it is still somewhat unclear where this January meeting is headed... other than looking at some possible changes.

[SuperJon]

There's going to be a huge shake-up happen up and down the east coast in the next few years. There has to be. Teams can't afford the travel. I'm talking NEC, CAA, Patriot, Big South, SoCon, MEAC, and maybe even OVC. It simply costs too much to travel to some places that teams have been traveling to for the past 10-15-20 years.

[Eight Legger]

The question will become whether conferences decide to become all-or-nothing (play every sport with us, or leave) or if they will continue to allow some members to play football only. And a third point might be whether schools that are members of one conference for all sports would be permitted to play football in another conference.

If the latter becomes an option, then it could make sense to have a Virginia-Carolinas league that includes W&M, UR, JMU, App State, Elon, Wofford and maybe a few others. Who knows if that would be done under the umbrella of the SoCon or a new football-only entity. There are a lot of possibilities.

[Dane96]

Great pt. eight-legger.

Man...this is very interesting.

[89Hen]

The question will become whether conferences decide to become all-or-nothing (play every sport with us, or leave)
No offense to you or Nova, Maine, et al, but that's my preference. I wouldn't mind seeing this one day in the future...

Albany
Hofstra
Delaware
Towson
JMU
W&M
ODU
GSU

and if only your Spiders would have stayed.

[Uncle Buck]

And Hofstra would mean them kicking out the Pride from the all-sports league. Tenuous...same with NU.

Maybe both go to the Patriot.

Does Albany and SBU get an invite if they spend $$$.

So many options here.


I couldn't see HU getting the boot, especially being all sports member. Also, someone has it on their sig at CAAzone, HU has won 23 CAA titles since joining the conference in 2001 which includes 4 last year.

HU wanted an all sports and got it, I can't see them changing now.

[Dane96]

Oh I agree...which makes this move by Yaeger bizarre.

[Dane96]

I also like 89's conference :)

[Uncle Buck]

I also like 89's conference :)

I agree. Hofstra loves being with Delaware and we're just not smart enough for the Patriot League.

[Dane96]

Or elitist!

Hehehehehe!

[th0m]

It makes most sense that URI and Maine are in trouble. They're not full members and don't really have the resume or the facilities. Delaware and Villanova to the North.

[Seawolf97]

I suspect the teams that may get a hard look will be the football only schools. Keeping the core all sports schools in the conference should be a priority.

[URMite]

No offense to you or Nova, Maine, et al, but that's my preference. I wouldn't mind seeing this one day in the future...

Albany
Hofstra
Delaware
Towson
JMU
W&M
ODU
GSU

and if only your Spiders would have stayed.

Do you think Northeastern will leave? or think about dropping football again?

I can see Albany joining all-sports but I'm not sure how many teams you want total.

I'm still wondering what the thoughts of our old AD (and the head of CAA football) are about the conference's football future...

[Go...gate]

There's going to be a huge shake-up happen up and down the east coast in the next few years. There has to be. Teams can't afford the travel. I'm talking NEC, CAA, Patriot, Big South, SoCon, MEAC, and maybe even OVC. It simply costs too much to travel to some places that teams have been traveling to for the past 10-15-20 years.

Bingo. Bus travel much cheaper than plane travel.

[89Hen]

Do you think Northeastern will leave? or think about dropping football again?
No, it was just a conference I would like to see. I have nothing against NU, I just don't have any feelings toward them at all and I don't think they bring anything with them athletically. You could say they bring the Boston market, but that's really not true when they pack in 1000 fans to a game. xeyebrowx

[Go...gate]

I agree. Hofstra loves being with Delaware and we're just not smart enough for the Patriot League.

One of the worst mistakes the PL has made in its history, IMO. A lot of us thought you should been accepted.

[URMite]

I suspect the teams that may get a hard look will be the football only schools. Keeping the core all sports schools in the conference should be a priority.

I agree. But I'm not sure the statement that was made by the commissioner supports that. Although it could be a call for the all-sports members to catch-up or drop-out.

Everyone (including me) assumed the football only members were most likely to feel pressure but now I'm not so sure.

Another thought won't GA St adds some travel expense the other way?

[spdram]

Remember that's the Comissioner speaking, we haven't heard from the Presidents and the AD's.

[Seawolf97]

I agree. But I'm not sure the statement that was made by the commissioner supports that. Although it could be a call for the all-sports members to catch-up or drop-out.

Everyone (including me) assumed the football only members were most likely to feel pressure but now I'm not so sure.

Another thought won't GA St adds some travel expense the other way?

I hope Georgia St builds a large travel budget. I know I have seen them up here for basketball at Hofstra and Columbia but to move a football team to Maine, New Hampshire or Boston will take dollars. Even a trip to Hofstra will be expensive. Of course the opposite impacts all those teams also going that far south.

[SuperJon]

Bingo. Bus travel much cheaper than plane travel.

I figured it up earlier. There are something like 21-22 FCS schools that play football within a five(ish) hour drive of Lynchburg.

What you're going to see happen more, especially on the east coast, is people are going to stop scheduling these great non-conference games. You're going to see them start scheduling non-conference games that fit their budget and not necessarily look at how great the team is. Sure, I'd love to see an out-of-market game between us and Cal Poly or NDSU or NAU or something like that but it makes absolutely no sense financially. We've got other choices much closer to us. Unfortunately money speaks more than other things. We usually say that in terms of schools doing things to make money, but in this case, it's schools doing things to save money.

What we need to do is get that AGS Helmet map back out and go up the east coast and just circle eight teams at a time that are close to each other and bam, there's your conference.

I'm kidding. Kinda.

[mcveyrl]

I figured it up earlier. There are something like 21-22 FCS schools that play football within a five(ish) hour drive of Lynchburg.

What you're going to see happen more, especially on the east coast, is people are going to stop scheduling these great non-conference games. You're going to see them start scheduling non-conference games that fit their budget and not necessarily look at how great the team is. Sure, I'd love to see an out-of-market game between us and Cal Poly or NDSU or NAU or something like that but it makes absolutely no sense financially. We've got other choices much closer to us. Unfortunately money speaks more than other things. We usually say that in terms of schools doing things to make money, but in this case, it's schools doing things to save money.

What we need to do is get that AGS Helmet map back out and go up the east coast and just circle eight teams at a time that are close to each other and bam, there's your conference.

I'm kidding. Kinda.

Yep. Our two OOC road games are Liberty and Maryland next year. Both within a few hours tops.

[Pitz]

How does a conference like the Big Sky handle all of their travel expenses? I feel like each team in that conference puts in MANY more miles than any team in the CAA.

[NovaWildcat]

Villanova is Big East bound in the next 10 years. The only obstacle is a stadium; which can be solved with one of the Philly stadiums / expansion of Villanova Stadium.

VU Admin (different from the one that rejected a Big East offer in the 90's) that there is no way to maintain as a Basketball power once the football schools decide to split. Moving up has always been a viable option, and looks to make the most sense.

Villanova looses too much $$$ right now anyway...last I saw the figure was at $3 loss - one of the biggest in ALL of college football (due to recruiting/perks/whatever). Mine as well take that loss on the biggest stage.

The obvious question for you folks here will be, "they don't get fan support now." That is true...but the VU community has always been able to rally around "the bigger product" - and Big East teams will simple have more of an attraction for the fan base. Not putting down the CAA at all because it is a great conference - it's just that it is not the Big East - which most of the other Nova sport teams compete in.

[LUHawker]

If travel costs are becoming an increasingly important consideration along with all-sports status, Nova should shift to the Patriot League. I know many Nova fans don't like this idea, as well as Coach Talley, but it makes a ton of sense. The PL is looking for numbers and Nova fits both the academics and the geography well. It also establishes a league with four top Catholic universities, making for a nice little intra-Catholic rivalry. I think the only way this ever happens is if the CAA basically forces Nova out and the PL implements scholarships - which I think would happen if Nova would join. I don't think Talley likes the idea because it weakens his recruiting platform by moving to a lower-profile conference AND his argument that Nova offers one of the best academics has less teeth in the PL. Still, if the PL would take an associate member in football, it just makes too much sense, especially because a PL with scholarships would become a much stronger conference. Other than Talley's personal views, I think it is a win-win all-around. VU could still schedule Delaware and other CAA schools and would probably see increased attendance with the tighter geographical dispersion among the PL -heck there are 4 PL members within 2 hours (Lehigh and Lafayette ~ 1 hr; Bucknell and Fordham ~ 2 hr drive).

[Seawolf97]

I figured it up earlier. There are something like 21-22 FCS schools that play football within a five(ish) hour drive of Lynchburg.

What you're going to see happen more, especially on the east coast, is people are going to stop scheduling these great non-conference games. You're going to see them start scheduling non-conference games that fit their budget and not necessarily look at how great the team is. Sure, I'd love to see an out-of-market game between us and Cal Poly or NDSU or NAU or something like that but it makes absolutely no sense financially. We've got other choices much closer to us. Unfortunately money speaks more than other things. We usually say that in terms of schools doing things to make money, but in this case, it's schools doing things to save money.

What we need to do is get that AGS Helmet map back out and go up the east coast and just circle eight teams at a time that are close to each other and bam, there's your conference.

I'm kidding. Kinda.

I agree about the non conference schedule. Thats 5 games where you could save a ton of money just playing local schools . SBU is lucky to have more than several only an hour or so away that all represent different conferences.
Hofstra - CAA
Wagner-NEC
Fordham - Patriot
Columbia -Ivy
Just add a team from upstate NY or New England which shouldnt be that hard and you have your schedule.

[carney2]

If UMASS moves up...if URI, UNH, Maine, NU, Hofstra get jettisoned..

Harsh language. Throwing schools out of the conference, is that a realistic possibility? Many, many questions:

I'm not up on things in the CAA. Who are the "football only" schools? Why do many of you feel that they will/should be the first to go? Is "all sports really that big a deal? In the end, each of the major sports exists in its own little cocoon. I know that Fordham and Georgetown are "football only" in the Patriot League and most of us would hate to see either leave.

If even a part of this is true, what happens to the likes of URI, UNH and Maine? Do they go to the NEC as the only possible option? Ivy and Patriot are not possibilities for them. Ivy is a definite "no," and, after the Towson fiasco, I think the Patriot League learned its lesson about having state schools as members.

Besides NU, who else is likely to just say "we quit" (the CAA, not football), and why? Being top tier competitive is not necessarily the be all and end all.

Any chance of splitting into two separate, loosely confederated conferences - one for the northern schools, one for the southern?

Is this finally the big CAA shakeout that we've been hearing about for a few years?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[wideright82]

If travel costs are becoming an increasingly important consideration along with all-sports status, Nova should shift to the Patriot League. I know many Nova fans don't like this idea, as well as Coach Talley, but it makes a ton of sense. The PL is looking for numbers and Nova fits both the academics and the geography well. It also establishes a league with four top Catholic universities, making for a nice little intra-Catholic rivalry. I think the only way this ever happens is if the CAA basically forces Nova out and the PL implements scholarships - which I think would happen if Nova would join. I don't think Talley likes the idea because it weakens his recruiting platform by moving to a lower-profile conference AND his argument that Nova offers one of the best academics has less teeth in the PL. Still, if the PL would take an associate member in football, it just makes too much sense, especially because a PL with scholarships would become a much stronger conference. Other than Talley's personal views, I think it is a win-win all-around. VU could still schedule Delaware and other CAA schools and would probably see increased attendance with the tighter geographical dispersion among the PL -heck there are 4 PL members within 2 hours (Lehigh and Lafayette ~ 1 hr; Bucknell and Fordham ~ 2 hr drive).


Personally I think it is an attractive idea for Villanova University, I do not however, think that it is an attractive idea for Villanova Football. The costs of the football program for VU is too much as it is right now, so the administration would love to see much closer games and much less spending. However, with the progress coach talley has made with this team, it would be a real kick in the braciola to go to the partiot league. Back in 04 a huge prospect for incoming players was a thought of potential move to FBS. With that starting to look out of the question a "downgrade" to the PL would just cripple the program i fear. (no shot at the pl there, just think it would be viewed as that.)


I personally would like it just so that it is easier to make most of the games. Can't be driving to GSU and ODU in the coming years, a trip to UMASS is brutal, now that i think about it, the PL can't come fast enough.

[Dukie95]

I'm not up on things in the CAA. Who are the "football only" schools?

Football Only
New Hampshire
Maine
URI
Villanova
Richmond
UMass

Full Members
Delaware
Hofstra
JMU
Northeastern
Towson
W&M

Full Members, no football
Drexel
George Mason
Georgia State * Football Coming
Old Dominion * Football Coming
UNC-Wilmington
Virginia Commonwealth

[NovaWildcat]

villanova football would get even less support in the patriot league.

this is about moving up to maintain basketball...not moving down to cut costs.

[DSUrocks07]

There's going to be a huge shake-up happen up and down the east coast in the next few years. There has to be. Teams can't afford the travel. I'm talking NEC, CAA, Patriot, Big South, SoCon, MEAC, and maybe even OVC. It simply costs too much to travel to some places that teams have been traveling to for the past 10-15-20 years.

SEAC (South-Eastern Athletic Conference) anyone?

FAMU
SCSU
BCC

what do you guys think? Is the MEAC heading for a split as well?

[89Hen]

Villanova is Big East bound in the next 10 years.
Is Nova a charter member of the BE?

[mountain_man]

"Travel costs for Division I championships jumped 31 percent in the last year, 58 percent during the past three years."


Speaking on behalf of ASU, I really haven't noticed.:p

[NovaWildcat]

Is Nova a charter member of the BE?

I meant that nova FOOTBALL is Big East bound. Villanova is a full-time member of the Big East.

[Dane96]

Doesnt matter if they are a full-time member; the offer is only extended for charter members (to join for football).

I do believe, however, Villanova is a charter member.

[89Hen]

I meant that nova FOOTBALL is Big East bound. Villanova is a full-time member of the Big East.
I asked because that was the only way UConn got in for football. The BE would NOT have allowed UConn in for football if they weren't a charter member. Remember that when UConn joined for football, VT, BC and Miami were still in the conference. UConn was a HUGE step down at that time. If Nova is not a charter member of the BE, it is my understanding that the BE does not have to allow them into the football conference. xpeacex

[LUHawker]

Personally I think it is an attractive idea for Villanova University, I do not however, think that it is an attractive idea for Villanova Football.

I think that is a very interesting comment. On the surface the latter part of that quote is likely correct. Let's just scratch the surface for a minute and see if it holds up. First, let's assume that the only way VU comes to the PL in football are if scholarships are implemented. If that is the case, I think the PL becomes a much, much stronger conference. VU's addition would only further that cause, making it something of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Second, VU's chances of winning the PL title and therefore an automatic bid to the post-season are better in the PL. VU would likely be considered an immediate front-runner. I think fan interest is a wash to a slight negative for VU. On the wash side, VU fans as a whole are only modestly interested to start with and games against Maine, URI, UNH, NU and Hofstra don't generate much excitement. Obviously, the southern schools offer more interest because of their ranking (at least in recent years). The PL has 3 other Catholic schools which many students who attend VU also consider as well as knowing other students who attend those institutions. Adding Lehigh, Lafayette and to a lesser extent, Bucknell, to the schedule should generate more local interest, if not student interest. Lastly, VU's associate status in an expanding league raises questions. What option would VU have, IF the CAA asked them to move on? Overall, there are some nice positives for the football program as well, particularly if the PL becomes a stronger conference.

[Go...gate]

Villanova is Big East bound in the next 10 years. The only obstacle is a stadium; which can be solved with one of the Philly stadiums / expansion of Villanova Stadium.

VU Admin (different from the one that rejected a Big East offer in the 90's) that there is no way to maintain as a Basketball power once the football schools decide to split. Moving up has always been a viable option, and looks to make the most sense.

Villanova looses too much $$$ right now anyway...last I saw the figure was at $3 loss - one of the biggest in ALL of college football (due to recruiting/perks/whatever). Mine as well take that loss on the biggest stage.

The obvious question for you folks here will be, "they don't get fan support now." That is true...but the VU community has always been able to rally around "the bigger product" - and Big East teams will simple have more of an attraction for the fan base. Not putting down the CAA at all because it is a great conference - it's just that it is not the Big East - which most of the other Nova sport teams compete in.

First time I have heard of this. Can VU afford FBS/BE football or is it a situation where they cannot afford NOT to have it?

[NovaWildcat]

89HEN, you are correct that the Big East has to allow Villanova in. However the conference is actively looking for a 9th football member (makes scheduling easier with 4 home, 4 away games)...Villanova makes a lot of sense because (1) already in the conference for other sports, meaning that they wouldn't have to make "provisions" with another school (2) the offer has already been extended in the past - why not again? and (3) there is an already existing rivalry between Villanova and other member schools.

The conference has 16 full-time teams, with 1 affiliate (I believe Loyola in WLAX, or something like that...), they're not looking to add more.

[LUHawker]

I meant that nova FOOTBALL is Big East bound. Villanova is a full-time member of the Big East.

I thought that ship had sailed, no? Are there new developments on that front that I haven't heard about?

[NovaWildcat]

First time I have heard of this. Can VU afford FBS/BE football or is it a situation where they cannot afford NOT to have it?

You hit the nail on the head.

VU cannot afford NOT to have it. It paralyzes men's basketball (the true $$$ maker) and VU's academic push.

[Go...gate]

You hit the nail on the head.

VU cannot afford NOT to have it. It paralyzes men's basketball (the true $$$ maker) and VU's academic push.

Interesting. I'm not a mathmatician, but applying the Transitive Property, what does this mean for Georgetown?

[mainejeff]

It makes most sense that URI and Maine are in trouble. They're not full members and don't really have the resume or the facilities. Delaware and Villanova to the North.

Nope.......I'd rank the "troubled" programs as:

1. Northeastern
2. URI
3. Hofstra

Maine's only "trouble" is their coach.....:(

[SuperJon]

One thing that is going to play a huge part in all of this are the non-football schools or non-scholarship football schools. Just off the top of my head, in the Carolinas and Virginia, you have:

UNCG
UNCA
UNCW
Longwood
High Point
Winthrop
Davidson
Campbell
USC-Upstate

I'm sure there are others.

Basically, my point is that these schools will play a part in all of this. Schools, and conferences more importantly, can't afford to just forget about the non-football playing schools. I know most of the schools listed are schools that most of the "elite" conferences wouldn't want, but a few of those are very, very attractive to conferences.

What I think we will see is the development of 8-team football/10 or 12-team basketball leagues.

[GannonFan]

MJ, didn't Cosgrove make a comment last year alluding to the difficulty in fielding a program in the North versus the expanding programs in the South? It hasn't truly shown up on the field yet, but he seemed to allude to the fact that it was going to be hard to compete longterm. Just curious.

As for nova, they are not a charter member of the Big East like UConn was (nova joined a year or two after the Big East formed) and as such they are not guaranteed admission to the Big East for football. However, if they were ever able to swing a way to join the ranks of FBS again, I would see them as a shoo-in to get into the Big East. Of course, the big problem is, they have nowhere to play FBS football. Their current stadium cannot be expanded, they can't build anywhere near campus (thanks to Radnor for that), they wouldn't be able to use The Linc in Philly (the Eagles begrudgingly had to let Temple use the field, at an exorbidant cost, because the city put up a lot of money to build the field. However, nova isn't actually in the city and wouldn't have that leverage, and besides, the Eagles hate that Temple using the field results in poor field conditions late in the year and probably would block anyone from using the field in the future after the Temple contract is over). Without a stadium, which they can't afford to build anyway, they aren't going FBS.

[Dane96]

Same up north with VERY SOLID academic institutions that some would want to be associated with, namely, Binghamton, UVM, and Boston University.

Both are very good in spots...and very good in academics.

[bluehenbillk]

Villanova & Big East Football will never happen. Villanova Football is a big-time money loser & has already been dropped once & has never really ever come back financially. The announced attendance isn't very good & then you factor in the students and the comps, very few people actually pay to watch it, especially every other year when they're not subsidized by travelling UD fans.

[mainejeff]

MJ, didn't Cosgrove make a comment last year alluding to the difficulty in fielding a program in the North versus the expanding programs in the South? It hasn't truly shown up on the field yet, but he seemed to allude to the fact that it was going to be hard to compete longterm. Just curious.

Well, I know that since those comments Maine has spent $1 million plus on new field turf. ;)

[GannonFan]

Well, I know that since those comments Maine has spent $1 million plus on new field turf. ;)

And of course, Cosgrove then tried to run to Rhode Island after the year was over. Hard to tell what he knows and what he doesn't know. (insert joke here) xthumbsupx

[mainejeff]

And of course, Cosgrove then tried to run to Rhode Island after the year was over. Hard to tell what he knows and what he doesn't know. (insert joke here) xthumbsupx

A ploy for more money and resources.......not exactly a great bargaining chip threatening a move to URI. xrolleyesx He did the same thing with Northeastern a few years ago.......xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

[NovaWildcat]

Villanova Stadium was built with room to be expanded. The big factor is getting the township (Radnor, PA) on board. This would be a very tough task.

I think Franklin Field COULD (not is) be a very real option. The Linc is seemingly off limits (although Nova football could easily outdraw Temple, but that is a different issue).

Again, the fan support is not the issue. It will come (sorry bluehenbill, our people would rather come see Rutgers and UConn than Delaware). UConn football was similar to Nova's now.

[bluehenbillk]

Villanova Stadium was built with room to be expanded. The big factor is getting the township (Radnor, PA) on board. This would be a very tough task.



You planning on re-routing Lancaster Ave somewhere?

[GannonFan]

Villanova Stadium was built with room to be expanded. The big factor is getting the township (Radnor, PA) on board. This would be a very tough task.

I think Franklin Field COULD (not is) be a very real option. The Linc is seemingly off limits (although Nova football could easily outdraw Temple, but that is a different issue).

Again, the fan support is not the issue. It will come (sorry bluehenbill, our people would rather come see Rutgers and UConn than Delaware). UConn football was similar to Nova's now.


Expand???? The stadium was built decades ago, like BHBK says, what are you going to do with Rt 30 that's only about 10 yards away from the current stadium?

Franklin Field could be interesting, but when was the last time the place legitimately got the 30k to 40k that would would be needed for FBS football? A lot of the Penn Relay stuff is bused in, would that work week in week out for football? And what would you do about the facilities themselves - seating-wise it's fine but other than that Franklin Field is a dump. Great history, of course, but where are people going to go the bathroom and where would you put concessions? I know the Philadelphia Stars played there but that was 25 years ago.

[NovaWildcat]

just by circling the stands out by itself (behind both endzones - and knocking down Butler Annex - gym next to Jake Nevin Fieldhouse), you're adding 10,000 seats. Not to mention you could easily re-work the current stands opposite of the press box side. We're talking 30,000 seats without building UP (possibility) or OUT (not a possibility on the Lancaster side).

30k-40k is not NEEDED for FBS football - a lot of programs don't come close to that. Although it would be nice, and Franklin Field has the space. Sure, it's a dump, but it has seats, and a field. 2 years ago Villanova-Penn drew almost 25k, and more than half of that was Nova. Not sure what you're talking about with concessions and bathrooms, FF has all of that.

[Go...gate]

just by circling the stands out by itself (behind both endzones - and knocking down Butler Annex - gym next to Jake Nevin Fieldhouse), you're adding 10,000 seats. Not to mention you could easily re-work the current stands opposite of the press box side. We're talking 30,000 seats without building UP (possibility) or OUT (not a possibility on the Lancaster side).

30k-40k is not NEEDED for FBS football - a lot of programs don't come close to that. Although it would be nice, and Franklin Field has the space. Sure, it's a dump, but it has seats, and a field. 2 years ago Villanova-Penn drew almost 25k, and more than half of that was Nova. Not sure what you're talking about with concessions and bathrooms, FF has all of that.

Army actually did something like that at Michie (adding seats on some but not all sides to preserve the beautiful views of the Hudson River), but it was a tough (and expensive) task from an engineering standpoint.

[Dane96]

just by circling the stands out by itself (behind both endzones - and knocking down Butler Annex - gym next to Jake Nevin Fieldhouse), you're adding 10,000 seats. Not to mention you could easily re-work the current stands opposite of the press box side. We're talking 30,000 seats without building UP (possibility) or OUT (not a possibility on the Lancaster side).

30k-40k is not NEEDED for FBS football - a lot of programs don't come close to that. Although it would be nice, and Franklin Field has the space. Sure, it's a dump, but it has seats, and a field. 2 years ago Villanova-Penn drew almost 25k, and more than half of that was Nova. Not sure what you're talking about with concessions and bathrooms, FF has all of that.

Buddy- I can guarantee you this: without a 40k minimum stadium size there is no way the Big East is coming for you. Maybe 35k...but I doubt it.

[Brad82]

The # 1 emphasis @ Rhody athletics is righting the ship in FB.
Maine has nice facilities. They can overcome any scepticism in these areas.
Survey all coaches @ any of these schools and ask if they would rather spend $$ on travel costs or recruiting and infrastructure? League and A-10is getting too spread out,costing way too much $$ to shuttle all those D-1 teams over 1/2 the USA. If Rhody went out with NE,UMass,UNH,Maine,Albany,CCSU etc.,be a good thing. Lots of options.

[wideright82]

I think that is a very interesting comment. On the surface the latter part of that quote is likely correct. Let's just scratch the surface for a minute and see if it holds up. First, let's assume that the only way VU comes to the PL in football are if scholarships are implemented. If that is the case, I think the PL becomes a much, much stronger conference. VU's addition would only further that cause, making it something of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Second, VU's chances of winning the PL title and therefore an automatic bid to the post-season are better in the PL. VU would likely be considered an immediate front-runner. I think fan interest is a wash to a slight negative for VU. On the wash side, VU fans as a whole are only modestly interested to start with and games against Maine, URI, UNH, NU and Hofstra don't generate much excitement. Obviously, the southern schools offer more interest because of their ranking (at least in recent years). The PL has 3 other Catholic schools which many students who attend VU also consider as well as knowing other students who attend those institutions. Adding Lehigh, Lafayette and to a lesser extent, Bucknell, to the schedule should generate more local interest, if not student interest. Lastly, VU's associate status in an expanding league raises questions. What option would VU have, IF the CAA asked them to move on? Overall, there are some nice positives for the football program as well, particularly if the PL becomes a stronger conference.

All extremely great points, hawker, as speculative as they may be, but then again all of this is. One of the main points of your support for this move, is the VU front runner factor. Players come to VU for one reason and one reason only, the stadium and respect they get from students xoopsx , haha, no the reason they come is because of the CAA. Players come because JMU, Richmond, Delaware, UNH, UMass, etc. are on the schedule year in and year out. Once that recruit attraction is removed can you REALLY say that VU is the front runner. I would bet the PL power that would be Villanova would end pretty quickly. Kids do not want to come to Villanova because their weight room, locker room, and stadium are impressive, they go primarilly because it is a great education, close to home for a lot, but more importantly, playing in the CAA is as close as you can get to potentially getting lost in the crowd at a 1A school. Don't get me wrong, i really don't disagree with what you said in the least, actually i think you are dead on, unfourtunately there are other consequences to switching leagues. If you cant make money playing CAA South powers year in and year out, i don't think bucknell is going to put the asses in the seats, and more important the players in the V.

Maybe you have to go to Nova to really understand it, but my impression while I was there, is that it is not about the wins, it is about the status. Basketball team has STATUS, big east national contender looks better than FCS national contender regardless to these students. If you don't play the "big boys" they want nothing to do with you. Sad but true.xnonono2x

[DFW HOYA]

A few thoughts on a subject that fills entire message boards over at the I-A side of things, but doesn't get as much space in I-AA:

The Villanova fans may not like it, but they are probably joined at the hip with Georgetown when it comes to Big East and football. (Funny, eight pages of comments and the Hoyas are all but forgotten...) Even assuming the BE wanted to add schools (and if they do, it won't be from I-AA), Villanova and Georgetown would be a package deal for TV markets and for voting power. The scenarios posited by fans for a 12 team Big East (minus DePaul, St. John's, Providence, and Seton Hall) would necessitate the two I-AA schools. Of course, neither are ready.

Contrary to a post above, expanding Villanova Stadium is definitely not the answer, nor is playing at Franklin Field. The BE wants major stadia and playing dates and times that the schools can control, and Villanova won't have the ability to dictate stadium usage at Franklin for TV purposes. Similarly, playing in a 20,000 seat soccer stadium in Chester isn't the answer either. The smallest BE avg. attendance is 35K at Syracuse and the league is pushing schools to average 40-45K as a rule.

To the CAA, the cleanest solution , if it is pursued, is to split the league geographically: a southern CAA (Georgia St., W&M, ODU, UR, JMU, Delaware, Towson) and a reborn Yankee Conference (Maine, UNH, UMass, URI, Northeastern, Hofstra, Villanova) that would commit to cross-league games into the future. At first glance, this won't sell at Villanova, and the New England schools may have nascent interest in a reduced scholarship presence. In any event, if the CAA wants to stay together, reducing travel costs will and should be a factor. Maybe one option is to play conference games within a division only (5-6 conf. games), but that opens up issues, too.

There have been posts that the Patriot League is giving pause to expand, but I have not heard a good argument why any of the aforementioned teams would do so. Maybe Northeastern, but the PL schools like schools that are small and liberal arts focused, and NE is neither. Does your school want to join? Beacuse there are, well, perceptions about the PL brand. When the former UR president floated a PL invite, there was almost an insurrection at the place, and he was gone soon thereafter. So unless you're Marist or Iona, the PL is a perceived step down for a program athletically, an image the PL has been slow to realize and even slower to act upon.

The other expansion idea out there, and one which ought to be more fully vetted, is the "Rust Belt", or a low-level I-A conference along the lines of the Sun Belt. Temple and Buffalo would probably qualify, the academies might buy into it, and then there is this range of schools (from App. St. to JMU to Fordham) that would probably nibble on the idea if it meant a bowl game and access to I-A guarantee games. (Fordham is already outspending many Sun Belt schools.) I know there is loyalty on this board to resist I-A jumps, but if a league existed where a school didn't have to travel to Bowling Green or Florida International to do so, I think there would be a few takers.

And where does Villanova and Georgetown fit into all this down the road? I don't know and I'm not sure they do right now.

Comments welcome.

[wideright82]

just by circling the stands out by itself (behind both endzones - and knocking down Butler Annex - gym next to Jake Nevin Fieldhouse), you're adding 10,000 seats. Not to mention you could easily re-work the current stands opposite of the press box side. We're talking 30,000 seats without building UP (possibility) or OUT (not a possibility on the Lancaster side).

30k-40k is not NEEDED for FBS football - a lot of programs don't come close to that. Although it would be nice, and Franklin Field has the space. Sure, it's a dump, but it has seats, and a field. 2 years ago Villanova-Penn drew almost 25k, and more than half of that was Nova. Not sure what you're talking about with concessions and bathrooms, FF has all of that.

NovaWC, i love the tenacity that is your will to send Nova to FBS, but unfortunately i have to agree with the blue hen boys. There are plenty of possibilities for Nova to move up, but they wont. Not anytime soon anyway, in my eyes at least. However, has nothing to do with lancaster, not sure but i think there are ways to make a stadium bigger with out making it 15yards wider. There is plenty of room for expansion, there isnt however, plenty of room in Radnor. They do not want the stadium lights up too high. The linc would be awesome, but dancing around with schedules of the phils, temple, and nova would be torture. After those two options are out, where to? Farther away from campus? Students are gonna take the time to get wherever the field is? They don't come and its a five minute walk. With at least half of the student population without cars, amd the other half not giving a crap about our football team, Villanova should focus on winning the CAA/making the playoffs before a potential move.

[carney2]

Villanova is Big East bound in the next 10 years. The only obstacle is a stadium;

Are you that young or is your memory that bad? Refresher: Villanova dropped football 25 years ago because they could not compete - in almost any way you care to mention. Most importantly, their ticket sales were abysmal. Football was emptying the bank. Now you say they're headed back. They really do want to break their piggy bank just to have very marginal big time pigskin. What, pray tell, could possibly entice the governing fathers - who, I must assume, have a better memory than you - to go down that dismal trail again? Wake up and smell the coffee. Ain't gonna happen.

[Go...gate]

Based upon the statements of the Villanova posters, it seems that VU Football's core support is not as strong as I would have suspected. True or not true?

[carney2]

Based upon the statements of the Villanova posters, it seems that VU Football's core support is not as strong as I would have suspected. True or not true?

True, but they're moving to the Big East to correct this.

[blur2005]

I'm sure at this point that the CAA is regretting adding Northeastern as an all-sports member. The school has added little to the conference. Hofstra wasn't a great add either, geographically; however, the Pride have been winning a lot in various sports, just not football, plus the school does have a football tradition to speak of unlike Northeastern.

What definitely makes the most sense is the formation of some kind of quasi-America East football conference with UNH, Maine, Stony Brook, and Albany as current AE members, joined by UMass, URI and anyone else as affiliated members. That would leave eight teams in the CAA, so adding ODU and Georgia State would make ten. From this point, it's a question of what happens to Villanova and Richmond. If they go, you've got eight; if one stays, nine; if both stay, ten. You can play a nine-game conference schedule sans divisions with ten.

I think there's a good chance that a lot of schools will go for eleven game schedules to reduce travel costs unless they get a nice payday from FBS teams.

[Cobblestone]

They want NU and URI to leave? xeyebrowx


Fine with me. We belong in the NEC anyway.

[blur2005]

Fine with me. We belong in the NEC anyway.
I'm going to guess that's not the prevailing opinion at URI.

[ur2k]

Any chance the CAA would tell Richmond to take a hike? Or is UR too valuable of a football member?

I only ask since there seems to be a bit of resentment in the CAA remaining from our move to the A10.

[Cobblestone]

I'm going to guess that's not the prevailing opinion at URI.


You're right. Thorr (our A.D.) wants to remain in the CAA. My feeling is we haven't competed at all iin the A-10/CAA over the years and under two different coaches. Rizzi has the program headed in the right direction so that might change but I still think the NEC is more realistic.

[Reign of Terrier]

I suggest a CAA-Socon merger. The teams with a winning record have a playoff to decide the champion. The rest of the FCS has their own playoff. The winners of the two playoffs play for the championship.

Chances are if you have an all CAA-Socon conference playoff, the best team in the country will win it all.xrulesx


the above was in no way needed to be taken serious

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

I suggest a CAA-Socon merger. The teams with a winning record have a playoff to decide the champion. The rest of the FCS has their own playoff. The winners of the two playoffs play for the championship.

Chances are if you have an all CAA-Socon conference playoff, the best team in the country will win it all.xrulesx


the above was in no way needed to be taken serious

At the end of the year the bottom 2 teams of the CAA-Socon division will be relegated to the rest of the FCS and replaced with their Champion and Runner-up.

[URMite]

I'm sure at this point that the CAA is regretting adding Northeastern as an all-sports member. The school has added little to the conference. Hofstra wasn't a great add either, geographically; however, the Pride have been winning a lot in various sports, just not football, plus the school does have a football tradition to speak of unlike Northeastern.

What definitely makes the most sense is the formation of some kind of quasi-America East football conference with UNH, Maine, Stony Brook, and Albany as current AE members, joined by UMass, URI and anyone else as affiliated members. That would leave eight teams in the CAA, so adding ODU and Georgia State would make ten. From this point, it's a question of what happens to Villanova and Richmond. If they go, you've got eight; if one stays, nine; if both stay, ten. You can play a nine-game conference schedule sans divisions with ten.

I think there's a good chance that a lot of schools will go for eleven game schedules to reduce travel costs unless they get a nice payday from FBS teams.

Not entirely true. It allowed the CAA to take football from the A10. :D (6 of 12 members)

[ngineer]

People have been predicting some sort of shakeup in the CAA ever since the expansion occured. Perhaps this ties into PL's Femovitch's criptic comments about potential new members in the PL in the next 6 months..

[URMite]

Any chance the CAA would tell Richmond to take a hike? Or is UR too valuable of a football member?

I only ask since there seems to be a bit of resentment in the CAA remaining from our move to the A10.

In some areas, I'd say it is more than a bit.xlolx

However...over the last few years memories seem to be starting to fade and we seem to be getting more and more connections with the CAA again. In football, we made the transition of admin to the CAA a bit easier... in basketball playing more CAA teams each year... a few other minor areas. But until I see us playing CAA teams in non-revenue sports on a regular basis, I will be skeptical of the motives of either side.

[jlcharles]

We have made the playoffs twice in the last 11 years. We would be at best a middle of the road team in the Big East, probably worse. At least in the CAA we have a chance to compete. Little Villanova isn't competing against schools that sell their soul for football. It just isn't going to happen and every time I hear this nonsense, I cringe.

I don't want to see us move up. There is nothing positive for the football team to come out of a move up. Now, don't get me wrong, I'll still be at every home game if we do move up, but I don't ever want to see it happen.

Especially if we have to play off campus. I like being able to head back to campus 5x a year. Chester? I'd prefer not to get mugged on my way back to the car. The Linc? Not going to happen. The Eagles hate having Temple there. Franklin Field? Maybe, but the facilities can't handle big crowds I don't think. Where's that leave us? An expansion of the existing field? Over Radnor Township's dead body. Some other site that isn't on campus? And the students are going to show up? I think not. They can't roll out of bed in the quad and walk 100 yards to the stadium now.

[Go...gate]

People have been predicting some sort of shakeup in the CAA ever since the expansion occured. Perhaps this ties into Femovich's cryptic comments about potential new members in the PL in the next 6 months.

I think you are right on, ngineer.

[blur2005]

Not entirely true. It allowed the CAA to take football from the A10. :D (6 of 12 members)
Well, sure. But the league could've added a stronger school closer to the rest of the conference that would have given the league six teams. I mean, does Northeastern really give the league any leverage in the Boston market? No.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Not entirely true. It allowed the CAA to take football from the A10. :D (6 of 12 members)


Well, sure. But the league could've added a stronger school closer to the rest of the conference that would have given the league six teams. I mean, does Northeastern really give the league any leverage in the Boston market? No.

Then why didn't the CAA do just that? xwhistlex They didn't. They added NU to have six football playing members.

[mainejeff]

Then why didn't the CAA do just that? xwhistlex They didn't. They added NU to have six football playing members.

And probably a bit too hastily. We were winning National Championships as the A-10 and we had games on TV. Not sure what the big difference is with the CAA other than 6 schools get a warm, fuzzy feeling seeing their conference flag fly over their stadium on game day.

[BDKJMU]

Villanova is Big East bound in the next 10 years. The only obstacle is a stadium; which can be solved with one of the Philly stadiums / expansion of Villanova Stadium.

VU Admin (different from the one that rejected a Big East offer in the 90's) that there is no way to maintain as a Basketball power once the football schools decide to split. Moving up has always been a viable option, and looks to make the most sense.

Villanova looses too much $$$ right now anyway...last I saw the figure was at $3 loss - one of the biggest in ALL of college football (due to recruiting/perks/whatever). Mine as well take that loss on the biggest stage.

The obvious question for you folks here will be, "they don't get fan support now." That is true...but the VU community has always been able to rally around "the bigger product" - and Big East teams will simple have more of an attraction for the fan base. Not putting down the CAA at all because it is a great conference - it's just that it is not the Big East - which most of the other Nova sport teams compete in.

To the tune of 35-60k fans a game like the other Big East Schools? I don't think so. As a couple of other VU posters have insinuated, the chance of Nova being able to expand the current stadium or building the necessary 40k stadium somewhere else (I imagine at a cost of at least 50 million) and being able to draw at least 30k plus to compete in the BE is slim to none.

[blur2005]

And probably a bit too hastily. We were winning National Championships as the A-10 and we had games on TV. Not sure what the big difference is with the CAA other than 6 schools get a warm, fuzzy feeling seeing their conference flag fly over their stadium on game day.
Probably because the CAA foresaw itself either splitting from the non-CAA schools to form a football conference at some point. Now with ODU and Georgia St. coming to a field near you in the next few years it makes sense. The league couldn't have known those two were going to for certain add football; it also couldn't know if the rest of the A-10 would want to follow once Northeastern joined the CAA to give it six teams. But I'll agree, adding Northeastern looks hasty now. Perhaps Hofstra, too, for that matter.

[jlcharles]

To the tune of 30-60k fans a game like the other Big East Schools? I don't think so.

Attendance was 30k for Temple. And we all know they weren't Temple fans.

[BDKJMU]

I'm sure at this point that the CAA is regretting adding Northeastern as an all-sports member. The school has added little to the conference. Hofstra wasn't a great add either, geographically; however, the Pride have been winning a lot in various sports, just not football, plus the school does have a football tradition to speak of unlike Northeastern.

What definitely makes the most sense is the formation of some kind of quasi-America East football conference with UNH, Maine, Stony Brook, and Albany as current AE members, joined by UMass, URI and anyone else as affiliated members. That would leave eight teams in the CAA, so adding ODU and Georgia State would make ten. From this point, it's a question of what happens to Villanova and Richmond. If they go, you've got eight; if one stays, nine; if both stay, ten. You can play a nine-game conference schedule sans divisions with ten.

I think there's a good chance that a lot of schools will go for eleven game schedules to reduce travel costs unless they get a nice payday from FBS teams.

All I-AAs that compete for the playoffs will have to go to 11 game schedules. The current plan when the playoffs go to a 5th round/20 teams they'll be starting a week earlier, and most seasons will start a week later than this season, which started at the end of Aug. This season was 13 Saturdays opening weekend (Aug 30th)- Nov 22 before the playoffs start on Nov 29th. Most seasons in the future will be only 11.

[BDKJMU]

Attendance was 30k for Temple. And we all know they weren't Temple fans.

And look what happened to the Temple football program (in regards to the BE conference?) They got the boot...xwhistlex

[blur2005]

All I-AAs that compete for the playoffs will have to go to 11 game schedules. The current plan when the playoffs go to a 5th round/20 teams they'll be starting a week earlier, and most seasons will start a week later than this season, which started at the end of Aug. This season was 13 Saturdays opening weekend (Aug 30th)- Nov 22 before the playoffs start on Nov 29th. Most seasons in the future will be only 11.
Completely forgot about playoff expansion (call it wishful forgetfulness). Thanks for pointing that out.

[jlcharles]

And look what happened to the Temple football program (in regards to the BE conference?) They got the boot...xwhistlex

You missed the point. We pulled 30k for that game and my point was, they weren't Temple fans. Temple makes the Linc look like a ghost town most games.

[Dane96]

Nova to FBS simply is not going to occur without a new stadium, a sugar-daddy, and luck.

[Tim James]

Big East football needs a few more teams and I'd much rather they add Villanova, Georgetown, Army or Navy than schools like East Carolina and Memphis. The conference is already losing its identity and it needs some more "Eastern Academic schools" and not more "Southern outlaw schools." They still havent recovered from losing BC.

[Uncle Buck]

Nope.......I'd rank the "troubled" programs as:

1. Northeastern
2. URI
3. Hofstra

Maine's only "trouble" is their coach.....:(

I hate to go back this many pages, but how could you rank us as a full member behind you? We've done well as a member and won our share of championships, and all in all, outside of your 2 playoff years, Maine football hasn't been lighting it up. In fact, i'd probably say that since we moved up to 1AA, we've had more playoff appearances and a winning record against Maine. I just don't see your logic here jeff.

[Ken_Z]

this summit is in part a reaction to the PLs continued and increasingly aggressive recruitment of several CAA schools. this is a very smart move by the CAA as it will allow them to use this as a catalyst to reshape and strengthen its membership with a longer term perspective. the CAA and PL will both come out of this with a clearer focus on their future. the CAA will almost definitely be better positioned to move forward and there is a decent chance the same will be true for the PL.

[JMU DUUUKES]

They want NU and URI to leave? xeyebrowx

YES .... they are NOT happy with NU's facilities, to the point they just want them to leave. I remember that the halftime meeting of the teams is held UNDER the bleachers ... so ok time to go NU.

[Jackman]

Going to be hard to kick anyone out over facilities while Northeastern is still there. And as far as I can tell, Northeastern can't really do anything about their situation. I think we might be able to build two FBS stadiums for what it would cost Northeastern to build up-to-spec FCS facilities. Assuming Boston University isn't willing to let NU use their field (I'm sure NU asked), their only lifeline is if the Krafts can get that soccer stadium built in downtown Boston.

[purplepeopleeaterv2]

The question will become whether conferences decide to become all-or-nothing (play every sport with us, or leave) or if they will continue to allow some members to play football only. And a third point might be whether schools that are members of one conference for all sports would be permitted to play football in another conference.

If the latter becomes an option, then it could make sense to have a Virginia-Carolinas league that includes W&M, UR, JMU, App State, Elon, Wofford and maybe a few others. Who knows if that would be done under the umbrella of the SoCon or a new football-only entity. There are a lot of possibilities.

xeekx I think if that scenario happened all the fans would croak from heart attacks over the close games that would surely follow! Not to mention the rest of the FCS for just seeing that lineup! Although I don't see that happening anytime soon if at all.

[henfan]

I attended a meeting last March at which Tom Yeager alluded to potential membership requirements for CAA FB members. He suggested that scholarship levels, facilities and other considerations might eventually become important in determining membership. That may be something that's considered but I'm not expecting much in that regard.

One thing I'd warn anyone looking for massive changes with this group of schools: they have been examining membership issues since the early '90's and have never come close to anything resembling a concensus. There are just so many divergent interests that have little to do with FB directly but which impact FB. The one element many of these schools still have in common is FB. The common histories and rivalries have transcended whatever financial stakes were at play.

I'd be surprised to see any big changes in the CAA, especially regarding membership. Unless/until there is some viable alternative to the CAA for some of these schools, it's hard to imagine a complete change of course.

IMO, I think what's more than likely to come out of any meetings would be more common sense scheduling arrangements and some soft commitments to facility improvements and scholarship levels. That could present the opportunity for a school or two to de-emphasize their programs, but I wouldn't count on it.

Another important thing to note: the only schools to leave the Yankee/Atlantic 10/Colonial conglomoration over the last 30 years have either eliminated FB (Vermont & Boston U) or reclassified (UConn).

[aceinthehole]

A couple of my thoughts on this topic:

Villanova - I'm sure fans and alumni like the idea of a BE football team, who wouldn't? The BE offer was on the table once (with UConn), so there is little reason to think the BE won't take VU later in the game. One thing is for sure, if they can't play at the Linc, its probably not going to happen. The stadium issue is very important to the BE, and they will allow a VU to get competative (like UConn did), if the have a TV market and nice stadium. Can 'Nova pull it off? I really doubt it, but I do think the option is there for them.

I don't think the PL is a viable option for VU, unless they were joined by Richmond (which is most unlikely). The main reasons for this is 1) the lack of scholarships/ability to be a I-A counter, and 2) the reduced exposure/competativeness, when compared to their existing home in the CAA.

Richmond - I know very little about their situation, but as a former full-time CAA member and a very good football program smack in the middle of their footprint, I imagine they are very safe in the CAA. Outside of a silly grudge for their departure on the basketball side, I see no reason for them to leave or get kicked out of the CAA football side.

New England CAA Affiliates - The real question here, is are they willing to leave and start a conference on their own? The CAA is hesitant to cut ANYONE loose, but if they left on their own, I'm sure the CAA wouldn't mind. We've debated options on this before and most fans don't like the results. Without a solid home to go to, I imagine these guys want to hang on as long as possible and will propose some scheduling to reduce travel burdens.

CAA Football members - are in the drivers seat, but have brought on a lot of these problems with the expansion to Boston and Atlanta. Outside of NU, the core members have stable football programs.

I don't think the CAA would mind if NU dropped football. I think they like NU in the CAA for most sports, but they would probably allow NU to play football as an affilate with Northern schools in a new conference, if they chose to do so. But I can't see that happening, as NU would likely kill football first to save hoops in the CAA and hockey in HE.

[89Hen]

just by circling the stands out by itself (behind both endzones - and knocking down Butler Annex - gym next to Jake Nevin Fieldhouse), you're adding 10,000 seats. Not to mention you could easily re-work the current stands opposite of the press box side. We're talking 30,000 seats without building UP (possibility) or OUT (not a possibility on the Lancaster side).
And you're going to park the cars where?

[89Hen]

Fine with me. We belong in the NEC anyway.
Now that they have increased schollies... probably.

[89Hen]

We were winning National Championships as the A-10 and we had games on TV. Not sure what the big difference is with the CAA other than 6 schools get a warm, fuzzy feeling seeing their conference flag fly over their stadium on game day.
Not sure if this is what you're asking, but if you don't see a difference between the effort the CAA office is putting into promoting this conference over what the A10 did, you must have your eyes and ears closed. xpeacex

[89Hen]

I attended a meeting last March at which Tom Yeager alluded to potential membership requirements for CAA FB members. He suggested that scholarship levels, facilities and other considerations might eventually become important in determining membership. That may be something that's considered but I'm not expecting much in that regard.
That's a big change from just a year ago when you told me there is no way the CAA would ever consider pushing anyone out after I said they would. Don't you agree? xeyebrowx :)

[MacThor]

Richmond - I know very little about their situation, but as a former full-time CAA member and a very good football program smack in the middle of their footprint, I imagine they are very safe in the CAA. Outside of a silly grudge for their departure on the basketball side, I see no reason for them to leave or get kicked out of the CAA football side.

I think there are too many ties to the CAA (former AD, CAA HQ is in Richmond) for UR to leave.

@ My poker game last night, the JMU alums thought JMU would make the move to FBS in a few years. They've got the enrollment.

[SuperJon]

@ My poker game last night, the JMU alums thought JMU would make the move to FBS in a few years. They've got the enrollment.

That's not happening. At least it's not the plan right now.

[89Hen]

@ My poker game last night, the JMU alums thought JMU would make the move to FBS in a few years. They've got the enrollment.
So does George Mason, UMBC, Georgia State.... enrollment, schmenrollment

[LUHawker]

Once that recruit attraction is removed can you REALLY say that VU is the front runner. I would bet the PL power that would be Villanova would end pretty quickly.

I think that is a very valid point. I would however caveat that with the comment that it will depend upon how much a PL with schollies improves. If the improvement is marginal or takes a long time, then your point probably bears itself out. If the improvement is sharp and quick then the PL's status vis-a-vis the CAA will narrow sharply.


it is about the status. Basketball team has STATUS, big east national contender looks better than FCS national contender regardless to these students. If you don't play the "big boys" they want nothing to do with you. Sad but true.xnonono2x

I don't think truer words have been uttered about Nova. Actually, I AM an PT MBA student at Nova, so I do see some of that first hand. I think Nova students and fans would show up to games more if the PL teams were ranked (like they were a few years ago) and if Nova was ranked.

[Tim James]

If Villanova doesn't plan on moving up to FBS then I'd like to see them in the Patriot with their buddies Georgetown. Seems to make the most sense from an outsider's perspective.

[mainejeff]

IMO, I think what's more than likely to come out of any meetings would be more common sense scheduling arrangements and some soft commitments to facility improvements and scholarship levels. That could present the opportunity for a school or two to de-emphasize their programs, but I wouldn't count on it.

Agreed. xthumbsupx

[GeeWiz]

I'm sure at this point that the CAA is regretting adding Northeastern as an all-sports member. The school has added little to the conference. Hofstra wasn't a great add either, geographically; however, the Pride have been winning a lot in various sports, just not football, plus the school does have a football tradition to speak of unlike Northeastern.


xmadx

WTF has JMU added to the CAA since NU joined the conference outside of football?

I guess NU was supposed to dominate the CAA in the three plus years being an all-sports member huh? Go and look at GSU and see how they've done since joining the CAA. Towson has sure dominated in all-sports in the CAA too right?

Hofstra has a football tradition unlike NU? Really? How many CAA titles have they won since joining?

I'm tired of you high-and-mighty JMU fans belittling other teams just because you've had a nice run in FCS football. You guys talk like you're USC or something. Before Micky Matthews arrived JMU was a mediocre football program and wasn't even better than NU. Go back and look at the head-to-head match-ups if you don't believe.

When Tom Yeager meets with the AD's next year to discuss the future of the league let the chips fall where they may.

[mainejeff]

Not sure if this is what you're asking, but if you don't see a difference between the effort the CAA office is putting into promoting this conference over what the A10 did, you must have your eyes and ears closed. xpeacex

I agree that the CAA is A LOT better at promoting the conference.......just not sure that it has done a heck of a lot in the grand scheme of things.

[Tim James]

I always thought Northeastern joined the CAA because they were trying to copy what BC did when they went to the ACC.

[andy7171]

xmadx

WTF has JMU added to the CAA since NU joined the conference outside of football?

I guess NU was supposed to dominate the CAA in the three plus years being an all-sports member huh? Go and look at GSU and see how they've done since joining the CAA. Towson has sure dominated in all-sports in the CAA too right?

Hofstra has a football tradition unlike NU? Really? How many CAA titles have they won since joining?

I'm tired of you high-and-mighty JMU fans belittling other teams just because you've had a nice run in FCS football. You guys talk like you're USC or something. Before Micky Matthews arrived JMU was a mediocre football program and wasn't even better than NU. Go back and look at the head-to-head match-ups if you don't believe.

When Tom Yeager meets with the AD's next year to discuss the future of the league let the chips fall where they may.

Hey now, Towson's non football sports do just fine.

But I do agree with you mostly. I like Northeastern in the CAA better than I do Georgia State.

[jlcharles]

And you're going to park the cars where?

Same place they always park. On the other side of Lancaster, down by St. Mary's, steam lot or whatever it's called, tailgating lot, behind Bartley Hall. I think they'd have to convert some of the lots to garages, in fact, even regardless of football, they need to do something about parking. Parking sucked for classes.

Promoting a partnership with Septa could help too since the R5 and R100 stop on campus.

[mcveyrl]

xmadx

WTF has JMU added to the CAA since NU joined the conference outside of football?

I guess NU was supposed to dominate the CAA in the three plus years being an all-sports member huh? Go and look at GSU and see how they've done since joining the CAA. Towson has sure dominated in all-sports in the CAA too right?

Hofstra has a football tradition unlike NU? Really? How many CAA titles have they won since joining?

I'm tired of you high-and-mighty JMU fans belittling other teams just because you've had a nice run in FCS football. You guys talk like you're USC or something. Before Micky Matthews arrived JMU was a mediocre football program and wasn't even better than NU. Go back and look at the head-to-head match-ups if you don't believe.

When Tom Yeager meets with the AD's next year to discuss the future of the league let the chips fall where they may.

Just for starters, we consistently compete for the baseball crown (won it last year) and our women's soccer team was on national TV at home a few weeks ago (just won their fifth in a row). Field hockey is usually ranked, too. Women's basketball is always competitive as well (we had a player drafted in the first round of the WNBA draft this year).

We also provide great men's basketball scrimmages.:p

Having said that, I like NU being in the conference and the northeastern presence. I seriously doubt that any all-sports member would be asked to leave, but they might be asked to upgrade a few things. I'm not sure what the solution will be, though.

[GeeWiz]

Just for starters, we consistently compete for the baseball crown (won it last year) and our women's soccer team was on national TV at home a few weeks ago (just won their fifth in a row). Field hockey is usually ranked, too. Women's basketball is always competitive as well (we had a player drafted in the first round of the WNBA draft this year).

And NU won the CAA women's track and field title last year and we're currently in first place in men's soccer and women's volleyball.

We've also been competitive in baseball, field hockey and men's basketball.

[89Hen]

xmadx

WTF has JMU added to the CAA since NU joined the conference outside of football?
xconfusedx JMU's football is enough and a LOT more than what NU has added.

[GeeWiz]

xconfusedx JMU's football is enough and a LOT more than what NU has added.

They've been in the league for how long now wise guy?

Let's not make FCS football into FBS football in terms of football setting the table for all other sports.

[mcveyrl]

And NU won the CAA women's track and field title last year and we're currently in first place in men's soccer and women's volleyball.

We've also been competitive in baseball, field hockey and men's basketball.

I never said you weren't. But, you're questions was:

WTF has JMU added?

I answered that.

[art vandelay]

Im worried that if it comes down to money and or facilities UNH mite get the boot. we cant get a new stadium because of money leaving us with the worse facilities. not good.

[89Hen]

Let's not make FCS football into FBS football in terms of football setting the table for all other sports.
Thanks for proving the point. Sounds like you'd rather be in the PL with that outlook.

[GeeWiz]

I never said you weren't. But, you're questions was:

WTF has JMU added?

I answered that.

I know that YOU personally didn't make that argument. It was the JMU fan that started the initial silly statement about NU that did.

[GeeWiz]

Thanks for proving the point. Sounds like you'd rather be in the PL with that outlook.

I'm jusy telling it like it is since you wanted to stick your nose in this argument that didn't concern UD.

And don't put words in my mouth. I don't want to play in the PL and we're not going there if we wanted to anyway.

[wideright82]

Im worried that if it comes down to money and or facilities UNH mite get the boot. we cant get a new stadium because of money leaving us with the worse facilities. not good.

art are you an importer or an exporter?

[Go...gate]

I'm jusy telling it like it is since you wanted to stick your nose in this argument that didn't concern UD.

And don't put words in my mouth. I don't want to play in the PL and we're not going there if we wanted to anyway.

xconfusedx xsmhx xnonono2x xmadx

[Go...gate]

Thanks for proving the point. Sounds like you'd rather be in the PL with that outlook.

No disrespect intended, 89, but football is, was and always will be the foundation for the PL. If there were no football aspect, I'm pretty sure there would not be a conference.

[89Hen]

I'm jusy telling it like it is since you wanted to stick your nose in this argument that didn't concern UD.

And don't put words in my mouth. I don't want to play in the PL and we're not going there if we wanted to anyway.
xconfusedx First off, anything that has to do with CAA reformation has everything to do with UD, but I didn't bring UD into any of the discussion. Secondly, I've been on this thread since the start and mentioned NU several times...

They want NU and URI to leave? xeyebrowx

I have nothing against NU, I just don't have any feelings toward them at all and I don't think they bring anything with them athletically. You could say they bring the Boston market, but that's really not true when they pack in 1000 fans to a game. xeyebrowx
Finally, what I said is with your outlook of not wanting CAA football to lead the way for our conferences it sounded like you would rather be in the PL. xpeacex

[GeeWiz]

xconfusedx xsmhx xnonono2x xmadx

No disrespect was intended. The PL isn't going to take NU in if we wanted to.

We're too big of a school and we're not quite at the academic level of the other PL members, no?

[blur2005]

Dear Lord, don't let your panties get in a twist. I think my point about Northeastern is that in terms of football, which is the most important sport financially speaking and in terms of exposure, there are barely one thousand people showing up to Parsons Field for Northeastern games. I don't think the CAA wants Northeastern out - I think the conference wants Northeastern to get on the stick and improve the school's facilities and performance. Of course, with the current financial mess and its effects on fund-raising and whatnot, I doubt that's going to happen easily.

Some of the original discussion in this thread had to do with the distance traveled in each conference. The CAA is a big conference and its greatest geographical outliers (all-sports) are Hofstra, Northeastern, and Georgia State. I wasn't for the CAA adding George State and in terms of distance and travel costs, it would be good to get rid of these outliers. But that's probably not going to happen, at least any time soon, so don't take this as dislike for your university's athletics program because it isn't. I don't think anyone dislikes having Northeastern or Hofstra in the conference; I think it's just pertinent to this discussion to wonder about Northeastern's future in the CAA.

[Jackman]

Im worried that if it comes down to money and or facilities UNH mite get the boot. we cant get a new stadium because of money leaving us with the worse facilities. not good.
UNH needs to get it done. Northeastern has the excuse of having nowhere to build or play, and Rhode Island has the second biggest government financial crisis in the nation. UNH needs to pick up the ball and run with it, especially while the team is playing so well. This is why the prospect of America East Football gives UMass indigestion, we can't rely on the other northeast programs to keep up this level of football once we're separated from the CAA South. UNH needs to step up, the stadium's not going to get any cheaper and interest isn't likely to get higher after a split.

[Anovafan]

Funny this thread should show up and a bunch of Nova posters come out on the Big East tip. Nova will never go FBS. Uconn and Nova both had open invites from the BE and Nova passed. Tony Moss did a nice write up of this history in his recent book on Nova football called A Season in Purgatory. That ship has sailed. The next big capital project for Nova football is to try to get a full time football facility built in the end-zone like JMU, Towson and just about everyone else seems to have. Nova is staying at the FCS level and will likely follow the southern teams, mainly UD, into whatever conference remains together. In this economy, travel costs will become a major factor and if the CAA stays together in football, I would predict that all of the northern teams will schedule each other and all of the southern teams will schedule each other with very few cross division games. The teams will be left to fill in regional games with whatever other FCS teams are in their area. For Nova, the northern trips are expensive and difficult logistically. Nova flies to Maine, UNH, URI and Northeastern so there would be no interest in joining any kind of northeast league. Nova drives to all of the southern school teams. The Nova administration does not think big time (or even long term) when it comes to football. They will likely go wherever it is most economical to play football, and that is with the southern schools in the CAA.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

UNH needs to get it done. Northeastern has the excuse of having nowhere to build or play, and Rhode Island has the second biggest government financial crisis in the nation. UNH needs to pick up the ball and run with it, especially while the team is playing so well. This is why the prospect of America East Football gives UMass indigestion, we can't rely on the other northeast programs to keep up this level of football once we're separated from the CAA South. UNH needs to step up, the stadium's not going to get any cheaper and interest isn't likely to get higher after a split.


Can I pick you up and drive you to Concord to make that same speech?

[Go...gate]

No disrespect was intended. The PL isn't going to take NU in if we wanted to.

We're too big of a school and we're not quite at the academic level of the other PL members, no?

I think you are overstating both issues.

[GeeWiz]

xconfusedx First off, anything that has to do with CAA reformation has everything to do with UD, but I didn't bring UD into any of the discussion. Secondly, I've been on this thread since the start and mentioned NU several times...


Finally, what I said is with your outlook of not wanting CAA football to lead the way for our conferences it sounded like you would rather be in the PL. xpeacex

Honestly, I wasn't responding to any of your posts. I was arguing the post from blur2005.

In response to the "outlook" of not wanting CAA football to lead the way, personally, I wanted to join the CAA to better our hoops program and to solidify our football program.

There are college fans out there that aren't thrilled with football leading the way for conferences, especially hoop fans.

Did UD along with TU, HU join the CAA for football or hoops? It was for hoops and to give better competition for the other olympic sports.

All that being said, DON'T take this as I don't love football. I think from most of my posts and signature pics you can see that I do, I'm just not a firm believer yet on football being bigger than hoops. I think that it's a regional thing.

[GeeWiz]

I think you are overstating both issues.

Ok, so let's hear your argument on the possibility of NU joining the PL. xcoffeex

I know geographically it makes sense.

[89Hen]

There are college fans out there that aren't thrilled with football leading the way for conferences, especially hoop fans.

Did UD along with TU, HU join the CAA for football or hoops? It was for hoops and to give better competition for the other olympic sports.

All that being said, DON'T take this as I don't love football. I think from most of my posts and signature pics you can see that I do, I'm just not a firm believer yet on football being bigger than hoops. I think that it's a regional thing.
At most DI schools that have football, it is king. Obviously there are exceptions (Nova, G'town, URI...). I'm not sure I see the regionality of it. And I don't think UD joined the CAA for bball at all. I think they joined because they thought they were more like the schools in the CAA and they saw the potential to have all sports in one conference for everything. The day the announcement came I said that CAA football would be close behind (not bragging, I think most saw that). This is why I say that I'd just as soon see the football affiliates all leave and only the all-sport members around for football.

I do agree that there are a lot of hoops fans that don't want to see football dictate... many reside in Richmond, Wilmington, Fairfax... xsmiley_wix

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

At most DI schools that have football, it is king. Obviously there are exceptions (Nova, G'town, URI...). I'm not sure I see the regionality of it. And I don't think UD joined the CAA for bball at all. I think they joined because they thought they were more like the schools in the CAA and they saw the potential to have all sports in one conference for everything. The day the announcement came I said that CAA football would be close behind (not bragging, I think most saw that). This is why I say that I'd just as soon see the football affiliates all leave and only the all-sport members around for football.

I do agree that there are a lot of hoops fans that don't want to see football dictate... many reside in Richmond, Wilmington, Fairfax... xsmiley_wix

You can add UNH and Maine to your exceptions list

[Go...gate]

Ok, so let's hear your argument on the possibility of NU joining the PL. xcoffeex

I know geographically it makes sense.

I actually made it on another thread and have no time now to reiterate it, but suffice it to say that I'm one of those who felt it made some sense.

[GeeWiz]

Dear Lord, don't let your panties get in a twist. I think my point about Northeastern is that in terms of football, which is the most important sport financially speaking and in terms of exposure, there are barely one thousand people showing up to Parsons Field for Northeastern games. I don't think the CAA wants Northeastern out - I think the conference wants Northeastern to get on the stick and improve the school's facilities and performance. Of course, with the current financial mess and its effects on fund-raising and whatnot, I doubt that's going to happen easily.

OK, but that's not what you said in the post I responded too. You said we don't bring anything to the table and we haven't won anything since we joined the CAA blah, blah, blah.

Yes, I understand that NU must upgrade our facilities and our football program. That's not a bring surprise. It's just not going to happen overnight and therein lies the issue while we have incoming programs that are getting things done and other programs are solidifying themselves.

[GeeWiz]

I actually made it on another thread and have no time now to reiterate it, but suffice it to say that I'm one of those who felt it made some sense.

I'll look again. I remember there was a post regarding possible new PL membership.

[blur2005]

OK, but that's not what you said in the post I responded too. You said we don't bring anything to the table and we haven't won anything since we joined the CAA blah, blah, blah.

Yes, I understand that NU must upgrade our facilities and our football program. That's not a bring surprise. It's just not going to happen overnight and therein lies the issue while we have incoming programs that are getting things done and other programs are solidifying themselves.
Well, to be honest, and not to sound sexist, but winning Women's Track is not a huge deal. I value all student athletes, the non-schollie ones more than any for their commitment, but that's not banner material for an athletic program. It's like at UVA, where we are always in the hunt for a conference title in most sports, except in football and men's basketball, the two most important ones.

[Go...gate]

I'll look again. I remember there was a post regarding possible new PL membership.

The post also included a discussion on my part on NU's proper allocation of resources by leaving Parsons be and raising/spending $$ on faculty, academic programs, bricks, mortar and endowment to significantly raise their academic profile. Colgate did much the same thing after WWII and has deviated from that path only on infrequent occasion - For example, the renovations at Andy Kerr Stadium 17 years ago were funded at least 50-60% by alumni (including many football alumni). Same thing with Sanford Field House, completed in 1987.

[Jackman]

Can I pick you up and drive you to Concord to make that same speech?
Sure! xthumbsupx
While we're at it, UNH should play better basketball. It'd be nice to have a 3 sport rival. I don't understand how UMass can have teams in all of the northeast's big 4 sports (football, basketball, hockey and men's lacrosse), and not have anyone to play against in more than two of them. The convoluted conference affiliations up here really screw things up. That's one way in which the Ivy League has it good. The CAA splitting up probably isn't going to improve things. That will be the end of a 70 year conference affiliation for UMass, including the CAA's predecessors. Then we're back to playing our big 4 sports in 4 different conferences, unless the A10 is going to take another shot at this crazy new sports fad called football.

[GeeWiz]

At most DI schools that have football, it is king. Obviously there are exceptions (Nova, G'town, URI...). I'm not sure I see the regionality of it. And I don't think UD joined the CAA for bball at all. I think they joined because they thought they were more like the schools in the CAA and they saw the potential to have all sports in one conference for everything. The day the announcement came I said that CAA football would be close behind (not bragging, I think most saw that). This is why I say that I'd just as soon see the football affiliates all leave and only the all-sport members around for football.

I do agree that there are a lot of hoops fans that don't want to see football dictate... many reside in Richmond, Wilmington, Fairfax... xsmiley_wix

Yes, most D1 schools football is the lead program. But there are the Dukes, the UNC's the UCLA's, the Arizona's the Michigan State's etc. where that isn't the case.

Is football bigger than hoops at UMass? Not so sure about that. Is football bigger than hockey at UNH or Maine? Is football bigger than hoops at URI?

So there's still some regionality to this. Football is king in the south, no question. No inroads can be made there, but there are still a lot of schools where football doesn't drive the "bus" so to speak.

[GeeWiz]

Well, to be honest, and not to sound sexist, but winning Women's Track is not a huge deal. I value all student athletes, the non-schollie ones more than any for their commitment, but that's not banner material for an athletic program. It's like at UVA, where we are always in the hunt for a conference title in most sports, except in football and men's basketball, the two most important ones.

You don't get to dictate what sports are deemed worthy of title recognition or not. xnonox

The fact of the matter is, NU has been a lot more competitive in the 3+ years we've been in the CAA than some other current CAA schools who where added as new members during the same period.

[EmeryZach]

It seems everyone is very quick to get UMass out of the CAA. You guys don't want to play us anymore?

This whole situation is messed up. ODU and GaState just shouldn't add football. Did anyone tell them how expensive it is?

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

Sure! xthumbsupx
While we're at it, UNH should play better basketball. It'd be nice to have a 3 sport rival. I don't understand how UMass can have teams in all of the northeast's big 4 sports (football, basketball, hockey and men's lacrosse), and not have anyone to play against in more than two of them. The convoluted conference affiliations up here really screw things up. That's one way in which the Ivy League has it good. The CAA splitting up probably isn't going to improve things. That will be the end of a 70 year conference affiliation for UMass, including the CAA's predecessors. Then we're back to playing our big 4 sports in 4 different conferences, unless the A10 is going to take another shot at this crazy new sports fad called football.

Not sure how old you are but there was a time that UMass and UNH had a nice lax Rivalry. (The coaches were father and son, can't remember the name right now). But that was long long ago....back when Umass had no hockey. I think UNH is headed in the right direction in Hoops but is a ways from competeing for the tops in AE let alone where UMass is. It would be nice to play UMass in a (relatively) competitive Basketball game.

That said....we need a new stadium first.

[Jackman]

Is football bigger than hoops at UMass? Not so sure about that.
It's been gaining lately. Total basketball attendance only exceeded total football attendance by about 6000 last year (84,000 to 78,000), not counting postseason. My guess is that a NCAA Tournament appearance by the BBall team would put them firmly ahead again though. Basketball leads by quite a bit more at the other two schools who contend for at large bids in both the FCS and basketball playoffs (S. Illinois and Richmond). The only FCS school I could find that had a good basketball program last year but still preferred football was Illinois St.

[mainejeff]

It seems everyone is very quick to get UMass out of the CAA. You guys don't want to play us anymore?

This whole situation is messed up. ODU and GaState just shouldn't add football. Did anyone tell them how expensive it is?

ODU will be more financially viable than any other CAA football program 5 years from now. Personally, I think that they are on their way to bigger and better things eventually.

Schools in the Northeast need to get their act together and make some decisions in regard to their sports programs that makes sense geographically, financially, etc. This B.S. of having two dozen schools in New England alone with about a dozen different conference affiliations in ridiculous!!! xmadx

[mcveyrl]

ODU will be more financially viable than any other CAA football program 5 years from now. Personally, I think that they are on their way to bigger and better things eventually.
Schools in the Northeast need to get their act together and make some decisions in regard to their sports programs that makes sense geographically, financially, etc. This B.S. of having two dozen schools in New England alone with about a dozen different conference affiliations in ridiculous!!! xmadx

Yep. As much as it pains me to say this, I agree. In 10 years, I don't think they will be in the CAA or FCS. Think South Florida...

[blur2005]

You don't get to dictate what sports are deemed worthy of title recognition or not. xnonox

The fact of the matter is, NU has been a lot more competitive in the 3+ years we've been in the CAA than some other current CAA schools who where added as new members during the same period.
I don't dictate what's important, public perception and the media do. Women's Track is kind of low on both of those lists whereas football and Men's basketball are at the top. It's just how things are.

[GeeWiz]

Women's Track is kind of low on both of those lists whereas football and Men's basketball are at the top. It's just how things are.

No kidding. xviolinx

FYI, Zara Northover, who was the CAA Field Athlete of the Year, competed for Jamaica in the Summer Olympics in Beijing.

All of Team USA's T&F athletes competed for D1 programs, so belittle it all you want.

But I guess if JMU had a track star we on the caazone wouldn't hear anything about it right? xrulesx

[URMite]

It's been gaining lately. Total basketball attendance only exceeded total football attendance by about 6000 last year (84,000 to 78,000), not counting postseason. My guess is that a NCAA Tournament appearance by the BBall team would put them firmly ahead again though. Basketball leads by quite a bit more at the other two schools who contend for at large bids in both the FCS and basketball playoffs (S. Illinois and Richmond). The only FCS school I could find that had a good basketball program last year but still preferred football was Illinois St.

That is an interesting thought. If a school made the FCS playoffs 8 of 12 years and an NCAA BB at-large 4 of 12 years, which would generate more interest?

[danefan]

That is an interesting thought. If a school made the FCS playoffs 8 of 12 years and an NCAA BB at-large 4 of 12 years, which would generate more interest?

Depends on what part of the country the school is in. Above the Mason-Dixon line - basketball -----below - Football.

[BDKJMU]

Im worried that if it comes down to money and or facilities UNH mite get the boot. we cant get a new stadium because of money leaving us with the worse facilities. not good.


UNH needs to get it done. Northeastern has the excuse of having nowhere to build or play, and Rhode Island has the second biggest government financial crisis in the nation. UNH needs to pick up the ball and run with it, especially while the team is playing so well. This is why the prospect of America East Football gives UMass indigestion, we can't rely on the other northeast programs to keep up this level of football once we're separated from the CAA South. UNH needs to step up, the stadium's not going to get any cheaper and interest isn't likely to get higher after a split.


Can I pick you up and drive you to Concord to make that same speech?

Heck, I know UNH has got enough room. I remember at the halftime of the JMU @ UNH game in 06' going into the woods behind the stadium to take a leak since their was a massive line at the port a potties.

If UNH can't get any or much $ out of the state, they just need to come up with a sugar daddy or daddies to fund an expansion & facilities upgrade- it wouldn't even cost half it would at Northeastern. It wouldn't have to be that big of a stadium- just an increase from the current listed capacity of 6500 to I imagine around 10k + one or 2 k overflow SRO capacity, plus a press box upgrade would do.

[art vandelay]

Heck, I know UNH has got enough room. I remember at the halftime of the JMU @ UNH game in 06' going into the woods behind the stadium to take a leak since their was a massive line at the port a potties.

If UNH can't get any or much $ out of the state, they just need to come up with a sugar daddy or daddies to fund an expansion & facilities upgrade- it wouldn't even cost half it would at Northeastern. It wouldn't have to be that big of a stadium- just an increase from the current listed capacity of 6500 to I imagine around 10k + one or 2 k overflow SRO capacity, plus a press box upgrade would do.

Space isn’t the issue its getting money as you know. Right now the state has agreed to give UNH one million if UNH can raise 30 million. Its pretty ridicules. I am with you in that UNH needs to just build something. If they just put something like what Maine has across from the home side of UNH. That would raise the stadium to about 15,000. Screw the 30 million dollar stadium lets just get something. please give more suggestions. and dont hesitate to send complaints of our stadium to the state of New Hampshire. maybe as visiting fans your opinion will have an impact.:)

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Heck, I know UNH has got enough room. I remember at the halftime of the JMU @ UNH game in 06' going into the woods behind the stadium to take a leak since their was a massive line at the port a potties.

If UNH can't get any or much $ out of the state, they just need to come up with a sugar daddy or daddies to fund an expansion & facilities upgrade- it wouldn't even cost half it would at Northeastern. It wouldn't have to be that big of a stadium- just an increase from the current listed capacity of 6500 to I imagine around 10k + one or 2 k overflow SRO capacity, plus a press box upgrade would do.

No question, UNH has the room. Husky Alum and I always joke about how Northeastern has the money and UNH has the room. But actually, it's not funny at all, it pretty sad for both of us.

AFAIK, the plans gathering dust on the bookcase in Durham calls for 13K seats with a new grandstand where the current visitor's bleachers exist. It would include a new press box and additional concessions and rest rooms. And it wouldn't significantly decrease the number of "overflow" SRO tickets that could be sold. That was around 6K this past Saturday! That's how the record crowd of 20K was set back in 1977.

Unfortunately, the chance to get any significant money out of the state is virtually nil. This is the same group that has allowed UNH out of state enrollment go up and possibly over 50%. The state won't ante up the money to run a flagship university that truly has the mission of educating the state's people. So, the university admits more and more out-of-state students in order to balance the budget.

So, now you need the sugar daddies as you've described them. Unfortunately, most of them are older and graduated from a UNH with less than 20% out-of-state enrollment. They tend to have the attitude that it is a state school so they don't need to donate those kind of big bucks. The UNH alumni have to understand today's reality and grow a donating philosophy that seems to be ingrained into students at Patriot and Ivy League schools.

[blur2005]

No kidding. xviolinx

FYI, Zara Northover, who was the CAA Field Athlete of the Year, competed for Jamaica in the Summer Olympics in Beijing.

All of Team USA's T&F athletes competed for D1 programs, so belittle it all you want.

But I guess if JMU had a track star we on the caazone wouldn't hear anything about it right? xrulesx
I'm not belittling anything. That implies I'm saying I don't respect track athletes and non-revenue sports which isn't true because as I said earlier, I respect those athletes even more than football or basketball players on full scholarships as many of them don't get a lot of financial assistance and get little press.

I also would be unlikely to bring up a JMU athlete on CAAZone since I haven't posted on that site in a couple years. Chill out.

[BDKJMU]

I'm not belittling anything. That implies I'm saying I don't respect track athletes and non-revenue sports which isn't true because as I said earlier, I respect those athletes even more than football or basketball players on full scholarships as many of them don't get a lot of financial assistance and get little press.

I also would be unlikely to bring up a JMU athlete on CAAZone since I haven't posted on that site in a couple years. Chill out.

Why is that?

[blur2005]

Why is that?
Just haven't. I go here for discussion about the CAA and JMU football, along with the rest of the country, and hang around in the Other Sports area for other stuff. Just never have really liked CAAZone that much.

[BDKJMU]

Just haven't. I go here for discussion about the CAA and JMU football, along with the rest of the country, and hang around in the Other Sports area for other stuff. Just never have really liked CAAZone that much.

You said you don't post there. You ever browse though? Always is a lot of good info for JMU fans (and granted a lot of needless babble) that you won't get anywhere else. Plus some discussions over there you can't or wouln't want to have over here- you know, the "in house" discussions. Well, I guess that goes for any team's message board for that matter.

[BDKJMU]

Harrisonburg Daily News Record
In CAA: Sun, Rust Belts
http://www.dnronline.com/sports_details.php?AID=32335&CHID=3&sub=

[purplepeopleeaterv2]

Yep. As much as it pains me to say this, I agree. In 10 years, I don't think they will be in the CAA or FCS. Think South Florida...

ODU has a LONG way to go before something like that happens. Sure they have a lot of money via big donors but the school still has a long way to go.

[mcveyrl]

ODU has a LONG way to go before something like that happens. Sure they have a lot of money via big donors but the school still has a long way to go.

I'm not too sure about that. They have the perfect model to use in South Florida. A similar school in terms of metropolitan area and students.

[purplepeopleeaterv2]

I'm not too sure about that. They have the perfect model to use in South Florida. A similar school in terms of metropolitan area and students.

Yes but that is Florida. The tidewater area isn't necessarily known for its sports....nor is Richmond for that matter......or the NOVA area with George Mason. Actually come to think of it VA metro areas suck for sports teams with VT and UVA being located in areas with a population of around 30k-40k.

[89Hen]

Yes, most D1 schools football is the lead program. But there are the Dukes, the UNC's the UCLA's, the Arizona's the Michigan State's etc. where that isn't the case.

Is football bigger than hoops at UMass? Not so sure about that. Is football bigger than hockey at UNH or Maine? Is football bigger than hoops at URI?

So there's still some regionality to this. Football is king in the south, no question. No inroads can be made there, but there are still a lot of schools where football doesn't drive the "bus" so to speak.
UCLA, Arizona, MSU??? No way. The bball teams may have had more success but you're still talking about football programs that dwarf bball in terms of $$$. UMass, Maine, UNH, URI.... that's why I don't have them in my hypothetical CAA conference. xpeacex

[mcveyrl]

Yes but that is Florida. The tidewater area isn't necessarily known for its sports....nor is Richmond for that matter......or the NOVA area with George Mason. Actually come to think of it VA metro areas suck for sports teams with VT and UVA being located in areas with a population of around 30k-40k.

Tidewater has two "Triple A" sports teams (Admirals and Tides) and has also been in the running for NBA and MLB franchises.

The reason UVA and VT are popular has nothing to do with their population location and everything to do with the fact that they are the state "flagships." Just like Florida, FSU and Miami are more popular in Florida. I think if I were an ODU fan that wanted to go FBS, I'd look at South Florida and think, "Yea, we can do that."

[89Hen]

ODU has a LONG way to go before something like that happens. Sure they have a lot of money via big donors but the school still has a long way to go.

I'm not too sure about that. They have the perfect model to use in South Florida. A similar school in terms of metropolitan area and students.

Yes but that is Florida. The tidewater area isn't necessarily known for its sports....nor is Richmond for that matter......or the NOVA area with George Mason. Actually come to think of it VA metro areas suck for sports teams with VT and UVA being located in areas with a population of around 30k-40k.
Right now I'd have to side with ppe. ODU sure seems to be on the right track to be competitive in the CAA in a lot of ways (ticket sales, support, possibly on field), but don't forget a lot of schools started out that way. mcvey, you site South Florida, but there are also FIU and FAU to draw parallels. FAU has had some minor success, but here they are at 1-5 (only win is 1-6 UAB), Both FAU and FIU are playing 7 road games this year and both drew 16,000 avg for their only two home games so far...

ODU has a long way to go in the CAA before we start talking about anything more than that. xpeacex

[mcveyrl]

Right now I'd have to side with ppe. ODU sure seems to be on the right track to be competitive in the CAA in a lot of ways (ticket sales, support, possibly on field), but don't forget a lot of schools started out that way. mcvey, you site South Florida, but there are also FIU and FAU to draw parallels. FAU has had some minor success, but here they are at 1-5 (only win is 1-6 UAB), Both FAU and FIU are playing 7 road games this year and both drew 16,000 avg for their only two home games so far...

ODU has a long way to go in the CAA before we start talking about anything more than that. xpeacex


I agree, but I said 10 years, that's a long time for me. I'm also not guaranteeing ODU success (in fact, deep down inside, well not that deep down, I'm hoping for an FBS flop), just saying that I think they look at South Florida as a model for potential success to move to FBS. If I'm ODU Fan, that's where I look.

The ODU fan base is all about "big time." They want pro teams there and nothing's closer to a pro team (without getting one) than FBS football. But, if they go 1-5 or 1-6, they will have a hard time drawing 16K like the F_U schools.

In the CAA, I think the fans will give them a few years, but if they don't start winning in year four, they will have trouble drawing for FCS, IMO. If THAT'S the case, then the South Florida model goes out the window and the Hofstra model moves in (no offense Hofstra).

[DFW HOYA]

I agree, but I said 10 years, that's a long time for me. I'm also not guaranteeing ODU success (in fact, deep down inside, well not that deep down, I'm hoping for an FBS flop), just saying that I think they look at South Florida as a model for potential success to move to FBS. If I'm ODU Fan, that's where I look.

Maybe they ought to look at East Carolina, a non-flagship school that focuses exclusively to a regional base as opposed to a statewide base at UNC or NC State.

[henfan]

"I've always felt that we need the league more than the league needs us, to be quite honest with you," (UMaine Coach Jack) Cosgrove said. "We really want to be a part of a great conference like the CAA. We're trying at all times to keep up with the growth of the conference. I love the fact that it is growing, that provides us a challenge to stay with it so that we can compete and win football games and ultimately, hopefully, championships."

This is an important comment on a couple of different levels that goes back to my earlier post in this thread.

In regards to the basic level of fielding a league, Coz's comment may be completely true. What isn't accounted for by many people who throw out wild fantasy scenarios of teams getting jettisoned, new leagues forming out of the CAA, etc. is the fact that many of these schools have long, common histories. That's not to be underestimated, financial concerns or no. Obviously, as a founding member of the league, UMaine's membership is valued.

If you've been following this league for any length of time, you'd understand that the CAA, like the A-10 and Yankee before it, will try to make the necessary accomodations to keep these schools together. Unless they're de-emphasizing FB, the schools will also do what it takes to remain league members, as guys like Cosgrove & Hager indicate.

I'm afraid those expecting huge membership changes in the CAA are bound to be disappointed.

[89Hen]

I agree, but I said 10 years, that's a long time for me.
FWIW, FAU and FIU are in their 8th seasons. I know, hard to believe it's already been that long. xpeacex

[purplepeopleeaterv2]

This is an important comment on a couple of different levels that goes back to my earlier post in this thread.

In regards to the basic level of fielding a league, Coz's comment may be completely true. What isn't accounted for by many people who throw out wild fantasy scenarios of teams getting jettisoned, new leagues forming out of the CAA, etc. is the fact that many of these schools have long, common histories. That's not to be underestimated, financial concerns or no. Obviously, as a founding member of the league, UMaine's membership is valued.

If you've been following this league for any length of time, you'd understand that the CAA, like the A-10 and Yankee before it, will try to make the necessary accomodations to keep these schools together. Unless they're de-emphasizing FB, the schools will also do what it takes to remain league members, as guys like Cosgrove & Hager indicate.

I'm afraid those expecting huge membership changes in the CAA are bound to be disappointed.

It's hard not to agree with them as well on making any changes to the membership of the conference. Why fix something that isn't broke?

[MacThor]

I find it a little ironic that this article is written from UR's perspective, when their decision to leave the CAA for the A-10 significantly increased their travel costs in all of their non-football sports. Bus trips around the state of Virginia have been replaced by jaunts to Cincinnati, Dayton, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, etc. On top of that, attendance has probably dropped.

Back in the '90s, the Robins Center would be rocking and full for men's basketball. Ranked teams hated coming to UR. Now it's like a mausoleum in there. Sure, some of it has to do with the product on the court, but there are a lot of VCU, ODU, GMU, JMU, W&M grads in the Richmond area. We had great rivalries. How many Xavier fans bother to make the trip?

I wonder if they've bothered to do a cost/benefit analysis of the move to the A-10. I bet their revenues have dropped and costs increased.

[89Hen]

If you've been following this league for any length of time, you'd understand that the CAA, like the A-10 and Yankee before it, will try to make the necessary accomodations to keep these schools together.
And the Yankee was a six team conference and everyone needed everyone else. Now with the promise of 14 teams... xeyebrowx

[89Hen]

It's hard not to agree with them as well on making any changes to the membership of the conference. Why fix something that isn't broke?
All it will take is a couple more 8-3 CAA teams to be left out of the playoffs because the CAA already has 4 other teams in. With the four Dakota teams coming in, Coastal, additional MEAC's.... there will be less and less room for as many at-larges. Now throw in two more CAA teams... something will have to give.

[purplepeopleeaterv2]

All it will take is a couple more 8-3 CAA teams to be left out of the playoffs because the CAA already has 4 other teams in. With the four Dakota teams coming in, Coastal, additional MEAC's.... there will be less and less room for as many at-larges. Now throw in two more CAA teams... something will have to give.

Yea they are expanding the playoffs xnodx

[mcveyrl]

FWIW, FAU and FIU are in their 8th seasons. I know, hard to believe it's already been that long. xpeacex

I guess when I said "Think South Florida" earlier, I wasn't necessarily talking about success, but moving up to FBS. All I said was that I didn't think ODU would be in FCS or CAA in 10 years.

[89Hen]

I guess when I said "Think South Florida" earlier, I wasn't necessarily talking about success, but moving up to FBS. All I said was that I didn't think ODU would be in FCS or CAA in 10 years.
Gotcha. I think I read success into your comment. ODU certainly could move up in less than 10 years. xpeacex

[mcveyrl]

Gotcha. I think I read success into your comment. ODU certainly could move up in less than 10 years. xpeacex

Yea, my bad. Should've qualified that. I would never wish success on ODU.:p

My guess is that if they have moderate FCS success, their fan base will almost demand it.

[purplepeopleeaterv2]

Yea, my bad. Should've qualified that. I would never wish success on ODU.:p

My guess is that if they have moderate FCS success, their fan base will almost demand it.

Hopefully JMU handily prevents that! xthumbsupx