A10 tie-breakers

[bostonspider]

ok speculation time, if UNH and UR both win out and UMass loses at least once, what is the tie-breaker between UR and UNH? They would not have played each other, and both wold have beaten the team the other lost to, so how would it break down? Does anyone know what the next tie-breaker is? Is it points, because then UNH would have it easily. Hope someone out there knows about the tie-breaker situation. Thanks.

[GannonFan]

Your answer is on the CAA boards - UNH will get the auto bid over Richmond should they both win out.

[umassfan]

And when UMass wins both Delaware and Hofstra whos going to win?

[UNHWildCats]

And when UMass wins both Delaware and Hofstra whos going to win?

unless UNH loses a game we beat you in head to head tie breaker.

[umassfan]

unless UNH loses a game we beat you in head to head tie breaker.
But if Richmond is involved then we beat them and you didnt play them so they are the monkey thrown into that theory.

[GannonFan]

But if Richmond is involved then we beat them and you didnt play them so they are the monkey thrown into that theory.

Come on, read the guidelines - head to head competition is the first tie-breaker - UNH has the tiebreak over you (head to head) and Richmond (OOC wins, well points per the guidelines).

[HensRock]

Actually, this will be VERY interesting. Technically, UmassFan is right and a tie with Richmond really does throw a wrench into things.

Richmond did not play UNH, so the head-to-head records cannot be used.

Next level is winning % vs. common opponents:
Common opponents for all 3 are Maine and Hofstra.
All 3 beat both so all are 100% against common opponents.
Still a 3-way tie...

The next level is points:
1 pt for each win over I-AA schools from Big Sky, Big South, Gateway, Ivy, Mid-Eastern Athletic, Ohio Valley, Patriot, Southern, Southland, Southwestern Athletic, and current independents,
0.5 pts for win over non-scholly league (MAAC, NEC, Pioneer),
2 points for I-A win.
No points for Div-II or lower, but a point is deducted for each Div-II or lower Loss.

Notice, the Great West Conference is not mentioned. On a technicality, UMass has a case over UNH because they beat UC Davis and going strictly by the A10 guidlines (by the letter of the ruling) UNH would not get a point for that victory even though they clearly deserve one.

UNH would be 10-1 with wins over non-scholly Iona (0.5 points) and (Great West) UC Davis (0 pts) resulting in 8.5 points for UNH.

UMass would be 9-2 with wins over non-scholly Albany (0.5 points) and I-A Army (2 points) resulting in 9.5 points for UMass.

Richmond would be 8-3 with wins over all scholarship I-AA teams. 8 points.

Clearly, UNH deserves an extra point for beating UC Davis which would result in a tie at 9.5 points. Richmond is eliminated and UNH wins the head-to-head. But since the Great West was overlooked, UMass could be the automatic bid on a technicality.

[umassfan]

Now im hoping all three win out so I can hear UNH wine. :D

[kardplayer]

The next level is points:
1 pt for each win over I-AA schools from Big Sky, Big South, Gateway, Ivy, Mid-Eastern Athletic, Ohio Valley, Patriot, Southern, Southland, Southwestern Athletic, and current independents,
0.5 pts for win over non-scholly league (MAAC, NEC, Pioneer),
2 points for I-A win.
No points for Div-II or lower, but a point is deducted for each Div-II or lower Loss.

Notice, the Great West Conference is not mentioned. On a technicality, UMass has a case over UNH because they beat UC Davis and going strictly by the A10 guidlines (by the letter of the ruling) UNH would not get a point for that victory even though they clearly deserve one.

UNH would be 10-1 with wins over non-scholly Iona (0.5 points) and (Great West) UC Davis (0 pts) resulting in 8.5 points for UNH.

UMass would be 9-2 with wins over non-scholly Albany (0.5 points) and I-A Army (2 points) resulting in 9.5 points for UMass.

Richmond would be 8-3 with wins over all scholarship I-AA teams. 8 points.

Clearly, UNH deserves an extra point for beating UC Davis which would result in a tie at 9.5 points. Richmond is eliminated and UNH wins the head-to-head. But since the Great West was overlooked, UMass could be the automatic bid on a technicality.

It depends on how they deem the "transitional" nature of UCD. If they consider them DII, then you are correct, they get 0 points.

Its more likely they would consider them in the independents bucket and give UNH the 1 point and the tiebreaker. I think I read somewhere that the Great West schools are technically independents because of the makeup of the league, although I could be way off there...

The reality is, it doesn't really matter since a 10-1 UNH and a 9-2 UMass team both get in anyway. This is far more important to Richmond who probably needs the autobid to get in...

[bandl]

Actually, this will be VERY interesting. Technically, UmassFan is right and a tie with Richmond really does throw a wrench into things.

Richmond did not play UNH, so the head-to-head records cannot be used.

Next level is winning % vs. common opponents:
Common opponents for all 3 are Maine and Hofstra.
All 3 beat both so all are 100% against common opponents.
Still a 3-way tie...

The next level is points:
1 pt for each win over I-AA schools from Big Sky, Big South, Gateway, Ivy, Mid-Eastern Athletic, Ohio Valley, Patriot, Southern, Southland, Southwestern Athletic, and current independents,
0.5 pts for win over non-scholly league (MAAC, NEC, Pioneer),
2 points for I-A win.
No points for Div-II or lower, but a point is deducted for each Div-II or lower Loss.

Notice, the Great West Conference is not mentioned. On a technicality, UMass has a case over UNH because they beat UC Davis and going strictly by the A10 guidlines (by the letter of the ruling) UNH would not get a point for that victory even though they clearly deserve one.

UNH would be 10-1 with wins over non-scholly Iona (0.5 points) and (Great West) UC Davis (0 pts) resulting in 8.5 points for UNH.

UMass would be 9-2 with wins over non-scholly Albany (0.5 points) and I-A Army (2 points) resulting in 9.5 points for UMass.

Richmond would be 8-3 with wins over all scholarship I-AA teams. 8 points.

Clearly, UNH deserves an extra point for beating UC Davis which would result in a tie at 9.5 points. Richmond is eliminated and UNH wins the head-to-head. But since the Great West was overlooked, UMass could be the automatic bid on a technicality.

:eek: ....my head just started spinning and fell off. What the hell happened??

UD, PLEASE beat UMass this weekend!! :D

[charliej]

Actually, this will be VERY interesting. Technically, UmassFan is right and a tie with Richmond really does throw a wrench into things.

Richmond did not play UNH, so the head-to-head records cannot be used.

Next level is winning % vs. common opponents:
Common opponents for all 3 are Maine and Hofstra.
All 3 beat both so all are 100% against common opponents.
Still a 3-way tie...

The next level is points:
1 pt for each win over I-AA schools from Big Sky, Big South, Gateway, Ivy, Mid-Eastern Athletic, Ohio Valley, Patriot, Southern, Southland, Southwestern Athletic, and current independents,
0.5 pts for win over non-scholly league (MAAC, NEC, Pioneer),
2 points for I-A win.
No points for Div-II or lower, but a point is deducted for each Div-II or lower Loss.

Notice, the Great West Conference is not mentioned. On a technicality, UMass has a case over UNH because they beat UC Davis and going strictly by the A10 guidlines (by the letter of the ruling) UNH would not get a point for that victory even though they clearly deserve one.

UNH would be 10-1 with wins over non-scholly Iona (0.5 points) and (Great West) UC Davis (0 pts) resulting in 8.5 points for UNH.

UMass would be 9-2 with wins over non-scholly Albany (0.5 points) and I-A Army (2 points) resulting in 9.5 points for UMass.

Richmond would be 8-3 with wins over all scholarship I-AA teams. 8 points.

Clearly, UNH deserves an extra point for beating UC Davis which would result in a tie at 9.5 points. Richmond is eliminated and UNH wins the head-to-head. But since the Great West was overlooked, UMass could be the automatic bid on a technicality.

I believe you over looked one point. Umass is also a common opponent for Richmond & UNH. UNH beat UMass,UMass beat Richmond. I think that means that if they all tie UNH would get the auto,beating UR on the common opponent tie breaker.

I could be wrong though.

[UNHWildCats]

I believe you over looked one point. Umass is also a common opponent for Richmond & UNH. UNH beat UMass,UMass beat Richmond. I think that means that if they all tie UNH would get the auto,beating UR on the common opponent tie breaker.

I could be wrong though.

a common opponent would have had to play all 3 schools what ur referring to would be head to head

[UNHWildCats]

I believe you over looked one point. Umass is also a common opponent for Richmond & UNH. UNH beat UMass,UMass beat Richmond. I think that means that if they all tie UNH would get the auto,beating UR on the common opponent tie breaker.

I could be wrong though.

Doesnt matter anyhow chances are both will lose before the seasons out and UNH will be 10-1 (7-1) and long champion :)

I agree with other posters that Umass could be looking at a 4 loss season

[umassfan]

Doesnt matter anyhow chances are both will lose before the seasons out and UNH will be 10-1 (7-1) and long champion :)

I agree with other posters that Umass could be looking at a 4 loss season
And you and that other poster will be wrong...

[charliej]

a common opponent would have had to play all 3 schools what ur referring to would be head to head

I think they would only have to go to the common opponent for all three if UR had played & beaten UNH.(and it was their only loss.) Umass gets knocked out on the head to head,UR misses on the common opponent with UNH.

Again I could be wrong,but I think thats how it works.

[umassfan]

I think they would only have to go to the common opponent for all three if UR had played & beaten UNH.(and it was their only loss.) Umass gets knocked out on the head to head,UR misses on the common opponent with UNH.

Again I could be wrong,but I think thats how it works.
You are wrong.

[HensRock]

I think they would only have to go to the common opponent for all three if UR had played & beaten UNH.(and it was their only loss.) Umass gets knocked out on the head to head,UR misses on the common opponent with UNH.

Again I could be wrong,but I think thats how it works.

If UR had played and beaten UNH, and that was UNH's only loss, then the situation is the same:

1. Head-to-Head:
UR>UNH UNH>UMass UMass>UR They've all beaten each other, so it goes to the next level.

2. Winning % against common opponents:
UMass beat Maine and Hofstra (100%)
UNH beat Maine and Hofstra (100%)
Richmond beat Maine and Hofstra (100%)
Those 2 are the only common opponents to all 3 schools.

As it stands now, the head-to-head does not matter because it is ONLY applied if all the schools in question have played each other, and UNH will not have played UR.

[UNHWildCats]

If UR had played and beaten UNH, and that was UNH's only loss, then the situation is the same:

1. Head-to-Head:
UR>UNH UNH>UMass UMass>UR They've all beaten each other, so it goes to the next level.

2. Winning % against common opponents:
UMass beat Maine and Hofstra (100%)
UNH beat Maine and Hofstra (100%)
Richmond beat Maine and Hofstra (100%)
Those 2 are the only common opponents to all 3 schools.

As it stands now, the head-to-head does not matter because it is ONLY applied if all the schools in question have played each other, and UNH will not have played UR.

Dont forget Northeastern but that still leaves us where we are :P

dont matter cause there not all gonna finish tied in comference. Richmond still has W&M and Mass has some tough games

[MR. CHICKEN]

HENSROCK......AH'M IN DEEP DOO-DOO.....WHIFF A LITTLE LEGAL MATTER......AFTERAH DAT TIE-BREAKER EXPLANATION........PLEASE REPRESENT ME......AN' AH'LL RETAIN YA'LL AS MAH COUNSEL!...xlolx:rotateh:xlolx...BRAWK! xprost2x

[HensRock]

Dont forget Northeastern

Richmond does not face NU this year, so they are not a common opponent.



It REALLY gets fun if Hofstra wins out and W&M beats Richmond.

Then, UNH, UMass, Richmond, Hofstra, and W&M are all tied at 6-2.
They have not all played each other.
They have no common opponents.

Points:
UNH: 7.5 (8.5 counting UC Davis)
UMass: 8.5 (if they beat Army 6.5 if not)
UR: 7
W&M: 8
HU: 7

[charliej]

Well,I guess we'll find out if it comes down to it. :D

The tie breaking proceedure states that once a team is eliminated at any point,the process reverts back to the beginning with the remaining teams.I think that the head to head in the division would eliminate UMass.That would leave UR & UNH as a two way tie outside the division. UNH & UR would then go to the point system,as both would be tied after common opponents,(forgot about UNH loss to W&M).UNH would then get the auto with or without points for UCD.

I'm gettin a headache.

[UNHWildCats]

Well,I guess we'll find out if it comes down to it. :D

The tie breaking proceedure states that once a team is eliminated at any point,the process reverts back to the beginning with the remaining teams.I think that the head to head in the division would eliminate UMass.That would leave UR & UNH as a two way tie outside the division. UNH & UR would then go to the point system,as both would be tied after common opponents,(forgot about UNH loss to W&M).UNH would then get the auto with or without points for UCD.

I'm gettin a headache.

That makes sense I wondered about that.

[HensRock]

I don't know how many other ways I can say this:

Head-to-Head is ONLY applied if all the teams in question have played each other. In a 3-way tie between UNH, UR, and UMass, this is not the case because UR will not have played UNH.

[charliej]

That makes sense I wondered about that.

I thought so too,till I re-read the tie breaker. :p

It says a three way tie will use the outside division tie breaker proceedure.So I guess UMass loss in the division doesn't eliminate them first.

If that is the case, Hens Rock is right. It will come down to points if all win out their conference sched.

[UNHWildCats]

I thought so too,till I re-read the tie breaker. :p

It says a three way tie will use the outside division tie breaker proceedure.So I guess UMass loss in the division doesn't eliminate them first.

If that is the case, Hens Rock is right. It will come down to points if all win out their conference sched.

do you have a link for where this tie breaker is listed?

[HensRock]

Conference History (http://www.atlantic10.org/sports/football/mediaguides/2005/17_confrencehistory.pdf)

See page 3.

[UNHWildCats]

Conference History (http://www.atlantic10.org/sports/football/mediaguides/2005/17_confrencehistory.pdf)

See page 3.

I dont understand why the great west isnt listed in the 1 point or 1/2 column

[umassfan]

I dont understand why the great west isnt listed in the 1 point or 1/2 column
You need it in the 1 pt column if you want to win the auto... I dont think this really matters because if all three win out all three will be in the playoffs and all three will be known as A10 co champs.

[HensRock]

But the auto bid will most likely get a seed, so it matters a great deal.

I think it's merely an oversight that the Great West is not included in the full 1 point list. Interesting situation for the lawyer-types to hash out though.

[UNHWildCats]

But the auto bid will most likely get a seed, so it matters a great deal.

I think it's merely an oversight that the Great West is not included in the full 1 point list. Interesting situation for the lawyer-types to hash out though.

So New Hampshire could finish 10-1, the top seed in the country in all the polls/rankings and could lose a playoff seeding because of a tiebreaker to a team they beat.

hmmm and I thought the BCS was crap. LOL

[GannonFan]

But the auto bid will most likely get a seed, so it matters a great deal.


Who gets the auto-bid has absolutely nothing to do with who gets the seed. The seedings are done by the determination of the selection committee. A 10-1 UNH team would get the seed over any other A10 team once viewed outside of the conference bylaws regarding the automatic seed.

[HensRock]

Who gets the auto-bid has absolutely nothing to do with who gets the seed. The seedings are done by the determination of the selection committee. A 10-1 UNH team would get the seed over any other A10 team once viewed outside of the conference bylaws regarding the automatic seed.

So when was the last time a team that didn't win it's conference was seeded higher than a team that did? Not in my memory.

Was W&M THAT much better than JMU or Del last year? That was a 3-way tie for the conference. Who got the auto-bid? Who got the seed?

[GannonFan]

So when was the last time a team that didn't win it's conference was seeded higher than a team that did? Not in my memory.

Was W&M THAT much better than JMU or Del last year? That was a 3-way tie for the conference. Who got the auto-bid? Who got the seed?

Montana got a home game in '03 and Montana St went on the road despite Montana St winning the automatic bid. Why? Because Montana St's overall record wasn't as good. Last year is a good example as well. W&M got the seed over UD because UD was 8-3 and W&M was 9-2. W&M got the seed over JMU because they had similar records but W&M played a IA team and, here's the kicker, W&M beat JMU. All those rationales had nothing to do with why W&M got the autobid (W&M got the autobid because UD and JMU played DII teams) but when it came seeding time the matchup on the field between JMU and W&M (well, the regular season one obviously) mattered most. Obviously most of the time the team with the seed will be the team with the better record, but if my some machinations UMass gets the automatic bid they have no chance (at 9-2 versus UNH's 10-1 with UNH actually beating UMass on the road no less) of getting a seed over UNH.

[HensRock]

Montana getting a home game has nothing to do with the conversation. They were not seeded.

UD was 8-3 because we lost a game to a I-A. All 3 were 7-1 in conference. UD had beaten W&M, W&M had beaten JMU and JMU had beaten UD. The 3 were co-champions of the A-10. W&M won the tiebreaker and earned the automatic bid. They also were seeded #3.

We're talking about automatic bids and there correlation to seeds. I'll ask again: When has the committee ever seeded a team that has not won their own conference while the conference winner (and automatic bid) has gone unseeded?

I'll guarantee you if UMass wins the A10 auto bid, UNH won't be seeded higher than UMass.

[UNHWildCats]

Montana getting a home game has nothing to do with the conversation. They were not seeded.

UD was 8-3 because we lost a game to a I-A. All 3 were 7-1 in conference. UD had beaten W&M, W&M had beaten JMU and JMU had beaten UD. The 3 were co-champions of the A-10. W&M won the tiebreaker and earned the automatic bid. They also were seeded #3.

We're talking about automatic bids and there correlation to seeds. I'll ask again: When has the committee ever seeded a team that has not won their own conference while the conference winner (and automatic bid) has gone unseeded?

I'll guarantee you if UMass wins the A10 auto bid, UNH won't be seeded higher than UMass.

I know this has absoloutly nothing to do with I-AA but Nebraska lost there confernce championship game and still played in the BCS Championship game in 2001.

Its not fair to penalize a team for a technicality. IF and with their schedule its a big if, UMass wins out as does Richmond and UMass gets the auto bid they do not deserve the seed over UNH, and if they get it, it will be the most outrageous event in college sports since USC was left out of the BCS CHampionship in 2003.