Texas Hold Crap

[89Hen]

I've said before that I'm not a Texas Hold-em fan, but watching 10 seconds of it last night confirmed why I think it's a stupid gambling game (I refuse to call it cards).

Guy with bigger stack tries to bluff with a 6-9 off-suit and puts guy with smaller stack all-in. Little guy is holding pocket Q's so calls bluff. Flop is 7-8-10. xnonono2x If you completely bluff, and get called, and still win anyway... NOT CARDS. xnonono2x xnonono2x xnonono2x

[andy7171]

I agree. It's all luck and who has the bigger balls.

[Rob Iola]

I've said before that I'm not a Texas Hold-em fan, but watching 10 seconds of it last night confirmed why I think it's a stupid gambling game (I refuse to call it cards).

Guy with bigger stack tries to bluff with a 6-9 off-suit and puts guy with smaller stack all-in. Little guy is holding pocket Q's so calls bluff. Flop is 7-8-10. xnonono2x If you completely bluff, and get called, and still win anyway... NOT CARDS. xnonono2x xnonono2x xnonono2x
Saw that too and had the same reaction.

Thing is - hold 'em really isn't a good tournament game - great TV drama with the bad beats but lousy for good players (which is why it seems like no names consistently win the WSOP main event). They far prefer ring games where their overall knowledge of strategy, odds, and psychology allows them to have a percentage edge over their opponents - they'll absorb the occasional bad beat but over the course of many hands they'll slowly but surely grind out profit...

[kardplayer]

I've said before that I'm not a Texas Hold-em fan, but watching 10 seconds of it last night confirmed why I think it's a stupid gambling game (I refuse to call it cards).

Guy with bigger stack tries to bluff with a 6-9 off-suit and puts guy with smaller stack all-in. Little guy is holding pocket Q's so calls bluff. Flop is 7-8-10. xnonono2x If you completely bluff, and get called, and still win anyway... NOT CARDS. xnonono2x xnonono2x xnonono2x

I didn't see it, but the raise hopes to find someone with pocket jacks or worse, or a weak ace or king - those folks are very likely to fold in that situation.

Even with pocket Q's you have to be pretty nuts or pretty desparate to call all-in before the flop, depending on the size of the pot. Best case scenario you are 2 1/2:1 favorite, worst case you are behind 4:1.

On Poker After Dark last night, Phil Hellmuth laid down QQ before the flop for just that reason. His strategy is to be patient, wait for someone to make a dumb move after the flop, and pounce.

[89Hen]

Even with pocket Q's you have to be pretty nuts or pretty desparate to call all-in before the flop, depending on the size of the pot. Best case scenario you are 2 1/2:1 favorite, worst case you are behind 4:1.
Even with only two players in? I think pocket Q's are pretty strong in that scenario.

[KiddBrewer]

I didn't see it, but the raise hopes to find someone with pocket jacks or worse, or a weak ace or king - those folks are very likely to fold in that situation.

Even with pocket Q's you have to be pretty nuts or pretty desparate to call all-in before the flop, depending on the size of the pot. Best case scenario you are 2 1/2:1 favorite, worst case you are behind 4:1.

On Poker After Dark last night, Phil Hellmuth laid down QQ before the flop for just that reason. His strategy is to be patient, wait for someone to make a dumb move after the flop, and pounce.

you play online anywhere kardplayer?

[KiddBrewer]

Even with only two players in? I think pocket Q's are pretty strong in that scenario.

it seems, he was heads up, and in that case might have made the wrong move.....and everybody at the table let him know about it......he was simply worried about KK AA.........he took the opponent's bet (who was an amateur) as telling him he had a very strong hand.

[kardplayer]

Even with only two players in? I think pocket Q's are pretty strong in that scenario.

It depends on the situation, size of the pot, the blinds, my stack, my position, etc.

I was in a hand in a live tourny recently where I had folded, but based on the action, I would have folded kings if I had them. One of the three players who had raised obviously had aces by his body language - to the point that when the money was all-in and the cards hadn't been turned over, I said "OK, so Scott has aces, what about the rest of you guys". Turns out, he did and so did someone else. The guy with Kings in the hand went home, the aces split up his money.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

I've said before that I'm not a Texas Hold-em fan, but watching 10 seconds of it last night confirmed why I think it's a stupid gambling game (I refuse to call it cards).

Guy with bigger stack tries to bluff with a 6-9 off-suit and puts guy with smaller stack all-in. Little guy is holding pocket Q's so calls bluff. Flop is 7-8-10. xnonono2x If you completely bluff, and get called, and still win anyway... NOT CARDS. xnonono2x xnonono2x xnonono2x

No it's not cards at all... it's poker, and that's why it's such a great game. It pits psychology and logic over strategy and luck in a game where there are so many combinations of winning hands it's rediculous. My point is, although yeah it does suck when really bad beats like that happen... it's part of the game... there is always a bit of uncertainty in that the next card to come is beyond anyone's control... hence why it's called GAMBLING.

I didn't see it, but my roommate told me about it and I came into the room right after the hand was over. What sucks even more was the he was right on the bubble and got *****ed out of the $ xnonono2x

In a similar situation (with Qs nonetheless) I was playing a $35 trny out at Quest Casino here in Spokane and was down to about 10-12 BBs, so after two players limped from early position, I went all in with my QQ. Guy/Dip***** in late postion with a little less chips called with Q-6 offsuit and everyone else folded. He flopped an open ended strait to the 7, then hit an 8 on the turn, leaving me with about 200 chips left (1 BB).

I'm a HUGE poker player, and play on Full Tilt all the time (not usually for $ though, because you can't read body language). My screenname is "Photo Guy174" if any of you want to play sometime. Hit me up.

[GeauxColonels]

Aren't all CARD games pretty much dependent on the luck of the draw with the deck?

[WWII]

I will look you up photo guy 174.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

I will look you up photo guy 174.

Likewise... whats your user name?

[I Bleed Purple]

ESPN coverage is an all in fest anyway. Plus, 6-9 has to win sometimes for the what 83-17 odds to be accurate.

[89Hen]

It pits psychology and logic over strategy and luck in a game where there are so many combinations of winning hands it's rediculous. My point is, although yeah it does suck when really bad beats like that happen... it's part of the game... there is always a bit of uncertainty in that the next card to come is beyond anyone's control... hence why it's called GAMBLING.
I would change that to say it pits psycholgy, strategy and luck over strategy and logic (yes I used strategy twice). It is gambling... that's my point. When somebody asks me to play Texas, I tell them I'd rather play cards. xpeacex

[Rob Iola]

ESPN coverage is an all in fest anyway. Plus, 6-9 has to win sometimes for the what 83-17 odds to be accurate.
moral of the story - don't go all-in preflop when you're on the bubble, even with bullets...

[89Hen]

Aren't all CARD games pretty much dependent on the luck of the draw with the deck?
Yes, but in all other card games you know all the cards you have. So bluffing, playing, etc... are much different. NOT knowing 5/7ths of your hand renders Hold Em too much a game of chance for me. xpeacex

[89Hen]

moral of the story - don't go all-in preflop when you're on the bubble, even with bullets...
One would think 83-17 are good enough odds to do so. It's like splitting 9's on a dealer 5-6 in blackjack. xpeacex

[kardplayer]

Yes, but in all other card games you know all the cards you have. So bluffing, playing, etc... are much different. NOT knowing 5/7ths of your hand renders Hold Em too much a game of chance for me. xpeacex

Its really the no limit part you have a problem with then, not hold 'em...
Going all in before the flop is a lot riskier than going all in just before the river.

In a limit game, you still don't know 5/7 of your hand, but you're betting 1 (or maybe 4) times the big blind, not every chip you have. That isn't any different than 7 card stud or any other card game. Almost every bet is made with cards yet to come...

[WWII]

Likewise... whats your user name?

WWII_47

[BlueHen86]

I've played a lot of No Limit Holdem tourney's on PokerStars. It is a combination of luck and skill, but you have to be lucky to win. I almost always finish in the top 3rd of the field (skill) but eventually I have to commit chips to a big pot and win (luck) ijn oerder to continue.

I prefer limit hold'em ring games. There is still a lot of luck involved, but it's easier to identify the weaker players and exploit them.

[aust42]

I'm amazed that ESPN actually airs poker games. ESPN is a sports channel and their airing a bunch of slime balls sitting around a table playing poker and there are enough people that tune in and watch this sit? I guess our society has degressed to the point where they love watching "American Karaokee Idol", why not poker?

[I Bleed Purple]

I'm amazed that ESPN actually airs poker games. ESPN is a sports channel and their airing a bunch of slime balls sitting around a table playing poker and there are enough people that tune in and watch this sit? I guess our society has degressed to the point where they love watching "American Karaokee Idol", why not poker?

What? The ENTERTAINMENT Sports Prime Network shouldn't show poker?

[BlueHen86]

I'm amazed that ESPN actually airs poker games. ESPN is a sports channel and their airing a bunch of slime balls sitting around a table playing poker and there are enough people that tune in and watch this sit? I guess our society has degressed to the point where they love watching "American Karaokee Idol", why not poker?

Why are they slime balls?xnonono2x

[89Hen]

Why are they slime balls?xnonono2x
Actually, that used to be more the case before poker became so mainstream. Watching some of the older competitions, there were a lot more skeevy people playing. xpeacex

[aust42]

What? The ENTERTAINMENT Sports Prime Network shouldn't show poker?


Poker is not a sport. How can anyone be ENTERTAINED by watching people play Texas Holdem? xlolx

[aust42]

Why are they slime balls?xnonono2x

I'm not one to be casting stones upon anyone. I guess I'm stereotyping because I see them sitting around the table wearing Sunglasses, Hats all sideways, Gold Chains dangling, cheesy rings, ear rings, tattoos and whatnot. :D

[89Hen]

BTW, watched the USARPS tournament on Comcast SportsNet. I found it quite a bit more entertaining than poker as at least these people know it's a joke. :p

http://static.flickr.com/58/170520138_c5f52dd906_o.jpg

[aust42]

Ironically I'm sitting at the little hotel bar last night here in Phoenix wanting to watch the football game on ESPN2 but they had ESPN on airing the Poker tourney. So I ask the bartender to change it and he said the guys next to me requested the poker tourney. If you were to see their reactions at the bar not knowing what they were watching you'd have thought they were watching a football game. I couldn't believe how excited they were watching poker on TV.

[Cleets]

Poker is not a sport. How can anyone be ENTERTAINED by watching people play Texas Holdem? xlolx

Jeezus..!!!
People watch people walk around and play GOLF..!!!! xeekx
I would sooner paint my f@cking house in the rain
Than watch a bunch of dorks stand over a golf ball for 9 minutes while droll Brits whisper into the microphone and agonize over the lie...


BARF... xoopsx

[aust42]

Jeezus..!!!
People watch people walk around and play GOLF..!!!! xeekx
I would sooner paint my f@cking house in the rain
Than watch a bunch of dorks stand over a golf ball for 9 minutes while droll Brits whisper into the microphone and agonize over the lie...


BARF... xoopsx

Only people who golf can watch it on TV. At least golf is a sport that requires skill. Texas Holdem is sheer luck of the draw. I'd almost rather watch the WNBA than watch degenerate gamblers playing poker on ESPN.

[89Hen]

Only people who golf can watch it on TV.
And not all of us that do can. xsmiley_wix I watch the Majors, Ryder Cup and the Players. That's all I can take. That said, the Masters is probably my favorite television sporting event of the year. xnodx

[MaximumBobcat]

Anybody play PL Omaha 8/b? I'll play anyone heads up on Fulltilt...Cmon...

[aust42]

And not all of us that do can. xsmiley_wix I watch the Majors, Ryder Cup and the Players. That's all I can take. That said, the Masters is probably my favorite television sporting event of the year. xnodx

Ditto. I can only watch the majors on TV. And watching a major in person is the ultimate. I saw the U.S. Open at your club back in 1997 and went to the Masters in 2000. I felt like I was walking on hallowed ground, it was the year before they started airing the front 9 on TV.

[I Bleed Purple]

Only people who golf can watch it on TV. At least golf is a sport that requires skill. Texas Holdem is sheer luck of the draw. I'd almost rather watch the WNBA than watch degenerate gamblers playing poker on ESPN.

Uh, no. The better players always win over time over worse players.

[89Hen]

I saw the U.S. Open at your club back in 1997
Congressional ranked as the #2 club in the country for best players in this month's Golf Digest. xthumbsupx

[BlueHen86]

Only people who golf can watch it on TV. At least golf is a sport that requires skill. Texas Holdem is sheer luck of the draw. I'd almost rather watch the WNBA than watch degenerate gamblers playing poker on ESPN.

You clearly don't understand poker. The hand you are dealt is luck, how you bet with that hand is skill.

I like watching poker on TV. I think watching golf on TV is a waste of time. There are hundreds of channels out there, if you don't like poker, pick a different channel, but don't tell me what I can and can't watch.

[89Hen]

You clearly don't understand poker. The hand you are dealt is luck, how you bet with that hand is skill.
And winning the hand is back to 90% luck. I "understand" fine. It's a gambling game, not cards.

[Rob Iola]

And winning the hand is back to 90% luck. I "understand" fine. It's a gambling game, not cards.
It's really not about winning any given hand - it's about winning the other guy's chips, whether over the course of many hands or just in a few. So yes, it's a gambling game, with the player's skill reflected in the gambling - basically to induce the other guy to gamble in a way advantageous to you...

[aust42]

You clearly don't understand poker. The hand you are dealt is luck, how you bet with that hand is skill.

I like watching poker on TV. I think watching golf on TV is a waste of time. There are hundreds of channels out there, if you don't like poker, pick a different channel, but don't tell me what I can and can't watch.o

I understand poker, and there ain't much "skill" involved at all. Whose telling you what you can and can't watch? Certainly not me. I'm just making fun of people like you who watch Poker on TV. xsmiley_wix

[BlueHen86]

o

I understand poker, and there ain't much "skill" involved at all. Whose telling you what you can and can't watch? Certainly not me. I'm just making fun of people like you who watch Poker on TV. xsmiley_wix

If you think there "ain't much skill" in poker - you don't understand the game...and I'd be happy to play against you at anytime.xlolx

[Thunderstruck84]

If it wouldn't be for luck I'd win every hand....

NORTHERN EUROPEAN IDIOTS....

I've played perfect poker, any other player in the world would've been out hours ago....

You guys play so bad.... can't even spell poker....

I'm the greatest player in the world and I'm in my prime....


Now how is that not entertainment?

And poker requires much more skill than some of you are giving it credit for, there's a reason why there are a ton of professional poker players who make more in a year than any of us will in our lifetimes (and it's not luck). Poker may not be a sport, but it is an art.

[BlueHen86]

Now how is that not entertainment?

And poker requires much more skill than some of you are giving it credit for, there's a reason why there are a ton of professional poker players who make more in a year than any of us will in our lifetimes (and it's not luck). Poker may not be a sport, but it is an art.

Good post.

[Rob Iola]

Now how is that not entertainment?

And poker requires much more skill than some of you are giving it credit for, there's a reason why there are a ton of professional poker players who make more in a year than any of us will in our lifetimes (and it's not luck). Poker may not be a sport, but it is an art.
NORTHERN EUROPEAN IDIOTS....

Yeah - Hellmuth wasn't too happy losing to the low pair on that hand...

[Thunderstruck84]

NORTHERN EUROPEAN IDIOTS....

Yeah - Hellmuth wasn't too happy losing to the low pair on that hand...
The greatest thing about that is if the tables were turned Hellmuth would be tooting his horn saying "no other player in the world would've called that bet, you can't bluff me boys".

Although I'd think he very rarely plays any starting hand that poor

[89Hen]

GAME, SET, MATCH - POKER SUCKS MY BALLS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hscUtGRzeHs&feature=related)

[aust42]

Now how is that not entertainment?

And poker requires much more skill than some of you are giving it credit for, there's a reason why there are a ton of professional poker players who make more in a year than any of us will in our lifetimes (and it's not luck). Poker may not be a sport, but it is an art.

Sure there are a lot of "professional" poker players out there but in a lot of cases their playing against idiots. Texas Holdem is a phenom for some reason and Vegas and Atlantic City are full of ameratures trying to play in tourneys. I actually have a friend that is hooked on Texas Holdem and plays it on-line every single night like the degenerate that he is and he swears he makes all kinds of money. His strategy is playing after midnight when all the college kids get on-line and play poker all drunk making idiotic decisions.

The art of bluffing is about the only skill involved in poker. There is only so much strategy to learn, the rest is the luck of the draw. Give me a break! xlolx

[Screamin_Eagle174]

NORTHERN EUROPEAN IDIOTS....

Yeah - Hellmuth wasn't too happy losing to the low pair on that hand...

xlolx xlolx xlolx I was watching that hand... Helmuth was playing like an idiot though... after he got called he should have laid it down. Serves him right for playing like an agressive donk.

[Thunderstruck84]

GAME, SET, MATCH - POKER SUCKS MY BALLS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hscUtGRzeHs&feature=related)
Now that was kind of boring, would've been much better entertainment if they would filmed the whole Hellmuth rant.


Sure there are a lot of "professional" poker players out there but in a lot of cases their playing against idiots. Texas Holdem is a phenom for some reason and Vegas and Atlantic City are full of ameratures trying to play in tourneys. I actually have a friend that is hooked on Texas Holdem and plays it on-line every single night like the degenerate that he is and he swears he makes all kinds of money. His strategy is playing after midnight when all the college kids get on-line and play poker all drunk making idiotic decisions.

The art of bluffing is about the only skill involved in poker. There is only so much strategy to learn, the rest is the luck of the draw. Give me a break! xlolx
The more you talk about your knowledge poker, the more you show how little you actually have. Bluffing is an acquired skill, others are the ability to read people, the ability to calculate pot odds, and the ability to record information and tendencies to use in later hands. That is why there are professional poker players and you don't see professional craps players or roulette players.

Luck is a factor in everything, there are always calculated risks to take in poker, football, basketball, or anything. The difference between the skilled and amateur players in any of those is that the skilled players know how to take calculated risks that give themselves an advantage. Luck will always be the great equalizer because as they say "It's better to be lucky than good".

[UMass922]

Only people who golf can watch it on TV.

I've never played a round of golf in my life, but I enjoy watching the majors. At least the back nine on Sunday if it's close, anyway--that's usually pretty compelling.

As for poker (of any variety), I'm not interested. I did live for a couple years with a few guys who were pretty seriously into it, but I never joined in.

[blur2005]

I love poker. The bad beats suck but it's a part of the game. Any kind of game/sport has luck involved. With poker, it's how you play each hand smartly, raise based on position or playing the player as much as you're playing the cards. Sure, you see Jesus Ferguson winning with a 9,2 but if it's not heads up and for Phil limping in, there's no way any good player plays that...except Gus Hansen:

Here's a silly hand for your enjoyment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNz-Duyx3Lc

[I Bleed Purple]

I've seen that clip before. Amazing. Just think if the guy with the 5s had gone all in and an Ace hit the river instead of the queen.

That's a cool hand.

[BlueHen86]

Sure there are a lot of "professional" poker players out there but in a lot of cases their playing against idiots. Texas Holdem is a phenom for some reason and Vegas and Atlantic City are full of ameratures trying to play in tourneys. I actually have a friend that is hooked on Texas Holdem and plays it on-line every single night like the degenerate that he is and he swears he makes all kinds of money. His strategy is playing after midnight when all the college kids get on-line and play poker all drunk making idiotic decisions.

The art of bluffing is about the only skill involved in poker. There is only so much strategy to learn, the rest is the luck of the draw. Give me a break! xlolx

But if the game were all luck, it wouldn't matter if the pro's were playing against idiots or not. The more you post on the subject, the dumber you sound.