The New Hampshire/Montana Conundrum

[WrenFGun]

This is more out of curiosity, but I was interested to hear what people have to say about the last two major conference undefeated teams. Here's a look at their performances, to date:

Montana has wins at Cal Poly (30-28) and at home against UC Davis (29-24), Southern Utah (45-10) and DII Central Washington (38-35).

New Hampshire has road wins over FBS Army (28-10), Rhode Island (51-43) and Dartmouth (42-6) with a home win over Albany (32-24).

From the looks of things, Montana has quality wins over Cal Poly and UC Davis (tight losses to San Jose State and UCA, and a tough loss to NU across country, along with a win over PSU) and a questionable victory over a DII team at home. New Hampshire, by contrast, has beaten four teams at the DI level, including an impressive eighteen point win over an FBS team on the road (regardless of how you consider Army, an eighteen point win over any FBS school is a quality win) and a dominating win over Dartmouth. With that said, Albany's effort against Delaware makes that close win look a little concerning, and Rhode Island is a similar boat. Both made it closer than it should've been.

How do people evaluate these two teams? Why are people voting teams like McNeese, Appalachian State and Richmond (each with two losses) above these teams in some instances? What are your concerns about them? How do you see them faring? I don't mean to evoke any rage among voters/non-voters, this is just a general curiosity posting.

[JMU DUUUKES]

Your not going to convince anyone that Montana or UNH have decent strength of schedules. If I'm not mistaken, UNH doesn't have to play JMU, UD, or Richmond this year. Thats awful, not your fault, but awful.

And Montana, I've just accepted every year they play a crappy schedule and go nearly undefeated or undefeated. Its just gonna happen, we all gotta get over it.

[WrenFGun]

Yes, but I was not trying to argue that either have elite schedules (though I frankly don't think Montana deserves any flack for their schedule this year), but rather I'm just curious how people evaluate them currently, being the two major undefeated teams left.

[Green26]

Here are some of the reasons:

Montana has beaten a team ranked 5th in the most recent AGS poll, Cal Poly.

UNH has beaten 4 teams that have won only 2 games among them.

The Sagarin ratings on UNH's opponents are: Albany (143), Army (190), Rhode Island (192), and Dartmouth (208). Which of those are quality wins?

One of the 2 wins by UNH's opponents is over Monmouth, which is rated 210 by Sagarin.

Davis and So Utah are rated 150 and 165 by Sagarin.

Central Washington is a good team, has a good qb, and has 22 transfers on its roster. However, but for 5 UM turnovers, a converted fake punt, a converted onside kick, and a converted 2-point conversion; the game would not have been close. UM dominated in first downs (27-13) and total offense (531-315).

[putter]

I think that UNH has played very well and Albany's loss to Delaware is of no concern to me. UD has a good team and losing at the Tub is no sign of a weak team so it should not hurt UNH. The overall strength of the teams that you have played have factored into my ranking (14).

Everyone is pointing to the CW game as weakness on Montana's part. I guess I can't argue with them, however, if you just look at the stats of the game and not the score it played out how you would have thought.

530+ yards against 310+
Montana had more than double the first down that CW had
TOP was heavily favored to Montana
CW was held to only 50+ yards rushing

Montana had 5 turnovers (-4 for the day). The first was a fumbled punt which allowed CW to have the ball deep in Montana territory (they scored). QB fumbled and it was returned for a TD. Interception in the endzone, another fumble on the CW 15 yard line.

Look at it how you will but Montana could have put the game away but give credit to CW. The have a draft pick for a QB who played like it and they still held on to win. If you penalyze them, fine. Either way I have them ranked at 6 which is fair.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Yes, but I was not trying to argue that either have elite schedules (though I frankly don't think Montana deserves any flack for their schedule this year), but rather I'm just curious how people evaluate them currently, being the two major undefeated teams left.

Agreed, Montana's SOS is a lot better than it was last year... especially with the improvement of other teams in the Sky like Weber, Sac, and UNC. I think the Griz are a good team who finds a way to win and deserve their current ranking. However I think if the Griz played the top 10 teams other than themselves, they would have a 3-7 or 2-8 record. I don't know much about UNH other than Santos/Ball were amazing, and I would have loved for them to play Eastern when we had Meyer/Kimble... the E-2 duo.

[putter]

Your not going to convince anyone that Montana or UNH have decent strength of schedules. If I'm not mistaken, UNH doesn't have to play JMU, UD, or Richmond this year. Thats awful, not your fault, but awful.

And Montana, I've just accepted every year they play a crappy schedule and go nearly undefeated or undefeated. Its just gonna happen, we all gotta get over it.

3 of our 4 OOC games were against FCS Great West teams and one of those teams is ranked 5th? How is that crappy? We are playing as local of FCS teams that we can out west (it's expensive you know).

[UNHWildCats]

Your not going to convince anyone that Montana or UNH have decent strength of schedules. If I'm not mistaken, UNH doesn't have to play JMU, UD, or Richmond this year. Thats awful, not your fault, but awful.

And Montana, I've just accepted every year they play a crappy schedule and go nearly undefeated or undefeated. Its just gonna happen, we all gotta get over it.
But we did play them the past two season and UNH has proven that even playing the toughest of the CAA South they are still a playoff team.

I know people gave grief to UMAss about it last year but thats because UMass wasnt a playoff team in the two years before that that they played the tougher South teams.

Regardless if UNH doesnt play the big 3 of the South they still got a tough Villanova team, a W&M team thats decent and always gives UNH trouble and they still gotta face a decent UMass offense and an improved UMaine team.

[Proud Griz Man]

Your not going to convince anyone that Montana or UNH have decent strength of schedules. If I'm not mistaken, UNH doesn't have to play JMU, UD, or Richmond this year. Thats awful, not your fault, but awful.

And Montana, I've just accepted every year they play a crappy schedule and go nearly undefeated or undefeated. Its just gonna happen, we all gotta get over it.

Some people have closed minds, and cannot process new information. You cannot convince these people if they make up their minds. xwhistlex

"Cognitive dissonance is a psychological phenomenon which refers to the discomfort felt at a discrepancy between what you already know or believe, and new information or interpretation. "

[WrenFGun]

I don't think there's any doubt that UNH does not have a particularly strong SOS, though there are opportunities for decent wins (already over Albany and Army) and potential for more, with W&M, 'Nova, UMass and Maine.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Your not going to convince anyone that Montana or UNH have decent strength of schedules. If I'm not mistaken, UNH doesn't have to play JMU, UD, or Richmond this year. Thats awful, not your fault, but awful.

And Montana, I've just accepted every year they play a crappy schedule and go nearly undefeated or undefeated. Its just gonna happen, we all gotta get over it.

Not going to argue with you about UNH's SOS compared to many CAA South teams or the CAA North teams that have the JMU, UR and UD troika. And for the sake of discussion, I'll defer to the SOS of the SoCon and MVC teams. But on a national scale, the UNH SOS is just fine. No way in halibut do many teams from the other leagues have a better SOS than UNH.

And you know what, it's still possible that Villanova and/or W&M could end up as one of the best three teams in the CAA South! Nothing written in stone that JMU, UR and UD will be the best three teams in the CAA South. Even if it works out that way, Villanova and W&M are still high quality opponents that along with the CAA North teams gives UNH a quality schedule.

I'm not losing any sleep over the UNH SOS. I know if it ends up being low compared to other CAA teams, then I think it will work itself out like it did for UMass last year. They deserved a playoff bid, but didn't get a seed just based on a gaudy record. No injustice was done to the FCS world by the committee in relation to UMass, they analyzed things correctly. Likewise this year if somehow UNH ended up 10-1, I won't be surprised if some 9-2 teams weren't more deserving of a seed. If UNH was lucky enough to end up 9-2, I know there will be other 9-2 teams more deserving of a seed, but UNH will still be very deserving of a playoff bid. If UNH happens to go 8-3, then there might be other 8-3, 9-3 or 8-4 teams more deserving. If UNH goes 7-4 again, the only way they possibly make the playoffs is if multiple teams don't reach the seven D-I threshold again. And that is less likely with 12 games schedules. Most UNH folks I've talked with admit that there is no way in heck UNH gets in with 7-4 this year. And unlike my amigo 89Hen, I haven't stamped UNH into the playoffs yet. Too many CAA games to be played yet, too much respect for my league mates.

Let's let the schedule play out, it is still September for gawd's sake. Within the next two games for example, we'll know so much more about UNH, Montana and William & Mary for that matter. UNH plays their ultimate CAA nemesis W&M then goes to Parsons for Northeastern. Montana has two tough road games. If W&M beats Villanova and UNH, won't that skyrocket them into Dowd's CAA Upper Tier?

The football season is a three month marathon, not a sprint.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

Not going to argue with you about UNH's SOS compared to many CAA South teams or the CAA North teams that have the JMU, UR and UD troika. And for the sake of discussion, I'll defer to the SOS of the SoCon and MVC teams. But on a national scale, the UNH SOS is just fine. No way in halibut do many teams from the other leagues have a better SOS than UNH.

And you know what, it's still possible that Villanova and/or W&M could end up as one of the best three teams in the CAA South! Nothing written in stone that JMU, UR and UD will be the best three teams in the CAA South. Even if it works out that way, Villanova and W&M are still high quality opponents that along with the CAA North teams gives UNH a quality schedule.

I'm not losing any sleep over the UNH SOS. I know if it ends up being low compared to other CAA teams, then I think it will work itself out like it did for UMass last year. They deserved a playoff bid, but didn't get a seed just based on a gaudy record. No injustice was done to the FCS world by the committee in relation to UMass, they analyzed things correctly. Likewise this year if somehow UNH ended up 10-1, I won't be surprised if some 9-2 teams weren't more deserving of a seed. If UNH was lucky enough to end up 9-2, I know there will be other 9-2 teams more deserving of a seed, but UNH will still be very deserving of a playoff bid. If UNH happens to go 8-3, then there might be other 8-3, 9-3 or 8-4 teams more deserving. If UNH goes 7-4 again, the only way they possibly make the playoffs is if multiple teams don't reach the seven D-I threshold again. And that is less likely with 12 games schedules. Most UNH folks I've talked with admit that there is no way in heck UNH gets in with 7-4 this year. And unlike my amigo 89Hen, I haven't stamped UNH into the playoffs yet. Too many CAA games to be played yet, too much respect for my league mates.

Let's let the schedule play out, it is still September for gawd's sake. Within the next two games for example, we'll know so much more about UNH, Montana and William & Mary for that matter. UNH plays their ultimate CAA nemesis W&M then goes to Parsons for Northeastern. Montana has two tough road games. If W&M beats Villanova and UNH, won't that skyrocket them into Dowd's CAA Upper Tier?

The football season is a three month marathon, not a sprint.

How the he!! did you ever get to 2,367 with posts of this length?xeekx

[Screamin_Eagle174]

How the he!! did you ever get to 2,367 with posts of this length?xeekx

Very carefully. xlolx

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

How the he!! did you ever get to 2,367 with posts of this length?xeekx

Heck, some are even longer! (See post 1K and 2K!! ;) ) I betcha that on total words posted rather than number of posts made, I'd be in the top ten on AGS!! None of that post padding crap for me!!! :p xnodx xlolx xlolx

Overactive cranium, improved typing, rainy days, semi-retired status, have laptop will travel, no kids, AGS priority over most household chores, hanging out in the Lounge and Other Sports forums, etc. with a little Name Game thrown in. xrotatehx xrotatehx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

Just think, if I wasn't drinking with you at games and traveling almost three hours each way, think how many posts I'd make during and after the games. :p :p

[JMU DUUUKES]

Someone said Montana doesn't desrerve flack for their schedule. But take this for what its worth.

NCAA tracks Strength of Schedule

out of 111 1AA teams, Montana is 106, UNH is 62 ... JMU is 6 (not that thats relevant, haha)

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2008/Internet/toughest%20schedule/fcs_9games_cumm.pdf

[WrenFGun]

I'm surprised UNH is that high, and I'm surprised on Montana's low ranking. One would think with Poly and Davis, it would be better than that.

[Eight Legger]

I have Montana 3 and New Hampshire 7 or 8 in my poll this week... but I am not too confident that either will be in the top 10 at the end of the year and think I probably have them both overrated right now. Montana has more of a historical basis for being ranked higher at this point, and the win over Cal Poly is what's keeping them high right now, because this week's result certainly wouldn't inspire much confidence.

Likewise, I am impressed that UNH can score points, but that has never been an issue for them. Only beating URI by 8 and beating Albany by a similar margin also don't inspire a lot of confidence. Kudos fo the FBS win, but Army is not really an impressive team to beat. I guess we'll reserve judgment until you guys play some good CAA teams and then we'll find out quickly if you are deserving.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

I have Montana 3 and New Hampshire 7 or 8 in my poll this week... but I am not too confident that either will be in the top 10 at the end of the year and think I probably have them both overrated right now. Montana has more of a historical basis for being ranked higher at this point, and the win over Cal Poly is what's keeping them high right now, because this week's result certainly wouldn't inspire much confidence.

Likewise, I am impressed that UNH can score points, but that has never been an issue for them. Only beating URI by 8 and beating Albany by a similar margin also don't inspire a lot of confidence. Kudos fo the FBS win, but Army is not really an impressive team to beat. I guess we'll reserve judgment until you guys play some good CAA teams and then we'll find out quickly if you are deserving.


That's the great part....a month from now this question will be answered.xthumbsupx
I have no idea what the answer be.xnodx

[putter]

Someone said Montana doesn't desrerve flack for their schedule. But take this for what its worth.

NCAA tracks Strength of Schedule

out of 111 1AA teams, Montana is 106, UNH is 62 ... JMU is 6 (not that thats relevant, haha)

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2008/Internet/toughest%20schedule/fcs_9games_cumm.pdf


yes, with combined record of Davis(1-4), Southern Utah (2-3) and Cal Poly (2-1) and Central Washington (4-1) for a combined 9-9. Where do they get 3-5? Even taking out Central Wa. (Div 2) the cumulative past opponents are 5-8 with one ranked? With that math the Griz should be in the 60's. I think it is off anyway because it also counts record of future opponents. Here is Montana's:

Weber St -- 3-2 with two losses at Hawaii and Utah
Eastern Wa - 2-2 with two losses at Colorado and Texas Tech
Idaho St - 0-4 with two losses at Boise St and Idaho
Portland St - 1-3 with one loss at Washington St
Northern Co - 1-2 with one loss at Purdue
Sac State - 3-1 with one loss at Colorado St
Northern Az - 3-1 with one loss at Arizona St
Montana St - 2-2 with two losses at Kansas St and Minnesota
__________________
15-17 record of remaining opponents (12 losses @ FBS)
Can you really put stock into this ranking?

[Wolfman]

Here are some of the reasons:

Montana has beaten a team ranked 5th in the most recent AGS poll, Cal Poly.

UNH has beaten 4 teams that have won only 2 games among them.

The Sagarin ratings on UNH's opponents are: Albany (143), Army (190), Rhode Island (192), and Dartmouth (208). Which of those are quality wins?

One of the 2 wins by UNH's opponents is over Monmouth, which is rated 210 by Sagarin.

Davis and So Utah are rated 150 and 165 by Sagarin.

Central Washington is a good team, has a good qb, and has 22 transfers on its roster. However, but for 5 UM turnovers, a converted fake punt, a converted onside kick, and a converted 2-point conversion; the game would not have been close. UM dominated in first downs (27-13) and total offense (531-315).



If the rabbit had not stopped to scratch his ass, he would be alive too.

Quit embarrassing the Griz Nation by trying to spin YET ANOTHER POST manipulating and twisting the numbers to prove that Montana is better than the New York Giants. You are such a joke in Missoula, but you are not satified with that distiinction, you have to go for national idiocy.

[Wolfman]

Some people have closed minds, and cannot process new information. You cannot convince these people if they make up their minds. xwhistlex

"Cognitive dissonance is a psychological phenomenon which refers to the discomfort felt at a discrepancy between what you already know or believe, and new information or interpretation. "


Oh please Proud, spare us the Psych 101 crap. Why is it so hard for Griz sugar coaters to admit that our schedule is always pathetic? It is so obvious. You wouldn't admit that the Pope is Catholic.

[Green26]

Wolfie, we all know who the biggest joke in Griz nation, Missoula, egriz and AGS are.

I can see why you have to slink around Missoula when you're in town and not tell hardly anyone what you name is.

[rob_p469]

If the rabbit had not stopped to scratch his ass, he would be alive too.

Quit embarrassing the Griz Nation by trying to spin YET ANOTHER POST manipulating and twisting the numbers to prove that Montana is better than the New York Giants. You are such a joke in Missoula, but you are not satified with that distiinction, you have to go for national idiocy.

Thanks again Wolfman for proving just how much of a hater you are. You talk more b.s. about the griz than all of Bozeman combined. Good luck on your surgery tomorrow to remove your head from your a**xpeacex

[putter]

Oh please Proud, spare us the Psych 101 crap. Why is it so hard for Griz sugar coaters to admit that our schedule is always pathetic? It is so obvious. You wouldn't admit that the Pope is Catholic.

Since no one can ever know how their SOS will end up because they don't know how those teams will do, I think the Griz schedule was better than last years. Cal Poly we knew would be good and Davis and SUU (new staff) were unknowns. Central had talent with the dropdowns and NFL calibur QB and TE. Not saying anything other than it was better and I hope that it can be all FCS teams in the future.

[WildCat In The Hat]

SOS, especially early in the season really doesn't mean a thing. Just beat who you are playing and things will work themselves out. Since UNH is undefeated, they have raised their prior opponents SOS (Dartmouth-5, Rhody-7, Albany-19). Now if we lost all of our games, our SOS would be higher right now.....I think I'll take 4-0, against whoever happens to be on the schedule.

[Wolfman]

Wolfie, we all know who the biggest joke in Griz nation, Missoula, egriz and AGS are.

I can see why you have to slink around Missoula when you're in town and not tell hardly anyone what you name is.



What, are you gonna beat me up? Go ahead, I would love to sue your fat arse. Trouble is, you have no money. You are such a tool. I am a member of the country club, former UM advisory board, hang out at several downtown bars, and I 'slink around town"? R-I-G-H-T

[Wolfman]

Since no one can ever know how their SOS will end up because they don't know how those teams will do, I think the Griz schedule was better than last years. Cal Poly we knew would be good and Davis and SUU (new staff) were unknowns. Central had talent with the dropdowns and NFL calibur QB and TE. Not saying anything other than it was better and I hope that it can be all FCS teams in the future.


Yeah, it was "better", simply because we actually played a legitimate team, (Poly) on the road. That is ONLY reason.

But, it should be no surprise to any Griz fan why the national FCS fan base, as well as the media, make fun of our schedule, just like they do about Ohio State's schedule, which also a joke (and my team too). OSU played one tough game too, against USC, and look what happened.

[Grizalltheway]

Oh please Proud, spare us the Psych 101 crap. Why is it so hard for Griz sugar coaters to admit that our schedule is always pathetic? It is so obvious. You wouldn't admit that the Pope is Catholic.

Why is our schedule pathetic this year? Because we didn't play an FBS opponent?

[uofmman1122]

Yeah, it was "better", simply because we actually played a legitimate team, (Poly) on the road. That is ONLY reason.

But, it should be no surprise to any Griz fan why the national FCS fan base, as well as the media, make fun of our schedule, just like they do about Ohio State's schedule, which also a joke (and my team too). OSU played one tough game too, against USC, and look what happened.xlolxxlolxxlolx

Just stick to cheering for OSU. Honestly. Do us all a favor. xlolxxlolx

[Wolfman]

Thanks again Wolfman for proving just how much of a hater you are. You talk more b.s. about the griz than all of Bozeman combined. Good luck on your surgery tomorrow to remove your head from your a**xpeacex



The "hater" crap gets old. I love my Griz. Just want a new coach, a new offense, a return to recruiting only quality kids, and a more competitive schedule. What is wrong with that. By the way, I am not alone in wanting these things, by a long shot. Open your eyes and ears.

[Wolfman]

Someone said Montana doesn't desrerve flack for their schedule. But take this for what its worth.

NCAA tracks Strength of Schedule

out of 111 1AA teams, Montana is 106, UNH is 62 ... JMU is 6 (not that thats relevant, haha)

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2008/Internet/toughest%20schedule/fcs_9games_cumm.pdf



Great post, and reveals why I am so embarrased by our schedule. It is painful reading posts from sugar coaters like Green26 lamely attempting to defend it.

[art vandelay]

I don’t know how the big sky works but I know that in the CAA we work on a two year system. Every two years CAA north and south teams have to switch the three teams its plays from the opposite division. So the last two years UNH played Richmond, JMU, and Duke and went 3 and 3 against them. Two years before that they played W&M, Towson, and Villanova and when 4-2. This year they are back on the W&M rotation. Not by choice. Both W&M and Villanova look good this year Towson is lousy. But on the other end Delaware has a lot of question marks; Richmond looks pretty good as well as JMU. By the end of the season who knows where our southern teams will stand. I mean seriously what more do you want from UNH we can only play what the schedule allows.

[Green26]

What JMU Dukes cited is not Strength of Schedule.

It is a merely a ranking of the win/loss record of the other teams on a team's schedule.

It is not very meaningful.

[Rob Iola]

FWIW - I picked UNH #1 over Montana based simply on UNH having 4 D1 wins (1 FBS) while Montana has 3 D1 wins. You can debate whether Poly's better than Army all you like as well as just how good Central Washington is - bottom line to me is that FBS trumps FCS and D1 trumps D2. And upcoming games only factor in once they're actually played...

[Syntax Error]

Someone said Montana doesn't desrerve flack for their schedule. But take this for what its worth.
NCAA tracks Strength of Schedule
out of 111 1AA teams, Montana is 106, UNH is 62 ... JMU is 6 (not that thats relevant, haha)yeah, it isn't. experts say MOV should be included to accurately project rankings. the NCAA doesn't. the NCAA doesn't recognize IAA either. it is FCS. the NCAA doesn't include the AGS Poll either for the same reasons... public perception. no matter what is better. GPI starts next week.

[uofmman1122]

FWIW - I picked UNH #1 over Montana based simply on UNH having 4 D1 wins (1 FBS) while Montana has 3 D1 wins. You can debate whether Poly's better than Army all you like as well as just how good Central Washington is - bottom line to me is that FBS trumps FCS and D1 trumps D2. And upcoming games only factor in once they're actually played...xlolx

Is everything this black and white with you, Rob?

[GolfingGriz]

I don’t know how the big sky works but I know that in the CAA we work on a two year system. Every two years CAA north and south teams have to switch the three teams its plays from the opposite division. So the last two years UNH played Richmond, JMU, and Duke and went 3 and 3 against them. Two years before that they played W&M, Towson, and Villanova and when 4-2. This year they are back on the W&M rotation. Not by choice. Both W&M and Villanova look good this year Towson is lousy. But on the other end Delaware has a lot of question marks; Richmond looks pretty good as well as JMU. By the end of the season who knows where our southern teams will stand. I mean seriously what more do you want from UNH we can only play what the schedule allows.

We play every team, every year. Home site switches each year.

[GOKATS]

I don’t know how the big sky works but I know that in the CAA we work on a two year system. Every two years CAA north and south teams have to switch the three teams its plays from the opposite division. So the last two years UNH played Richmond, JMU, and Duke and went 3 and 3 against them. Two years before that they played W&M, Towson, and Villanova and when 4-2. This year they are back on the W&M rotation. Not by choice. Both W&M and Villanova look good this year Towson is lousy. But on the other end Delaware has a lot of question marks; Richmond looks pretty good as well as JMU. By the end of the season who knows where our southern teams will stand. I mean seriously what more do you want from UNH we can only play what the schedule allows.

The Big Sky has nine teams so we all have eight conference games each year, four at home and four on the road. It doesn't leave many options in the normal eleven game season when it comes to scheduling OOC games.

At Montana St. we're committed to having six home games and we play one money game a year. That requires getting two OOC games at home, usually a DII and then whatever.

I really wish the NCAA would just allow FCS to have a twelve game season every year because then we could at least set up a home/away with FCS schools.

[Syntax Error]

I really wish the NCAA would just allow FCS to have a twelve game season every year because then we could at least set up a home/away with FCS schools.Not what would happen. The reality is that the extra game would be a money game with FBS. This year has been an abonimation with so many FBS money games and lower level winner games. BORING! If we could guarantee that teams would play the extra game against FCS then that would be cool. Didn't happen this year so we had an incredibly boring first three-four weeks. What happened when week five came? How about 20 FCS games finished in the last series! That is what we want. Not blowouts and chances at freak wins. xtwocentsx

[JMU DUUUKES]

yeah, it isn't. experts say MOV should be included to accurately project rankings. the NCAA doesn't. the NCAA doesn't recognize IAA either. it is FCS. the NCAA doesn't include the AGS Poll either for the same reasons... public perception. no matter what is better. GPI starts next week.


Haha wow you just got mad about the whole 1AA vs. FCS thing .... i never thought a poster would dwell on that on any boards. Hahah

[89Hen]

Agreed, Montana's SOS is a lot better than it was last year... especially with the improvement of other teams in the Sky like Weber, Sac, and UNC.
xeyebrowx I can't let that slide. The improvement of Sac and UNC? Because they played TxSt close? No offense to the Bobcats, but Angelo State played TxSt close and SUU beat them. SacSt is .500 because they figured out how to get there... play a DII and an NAIA in the first four games. xcoffeex

[Dukie95]

Some people have closed minds, and cannot process new information. You cannot convince these people if they make up their minds. xwhistlex

"Cognitive dissonance is a psychological phenomenon which refers to the discomfort felt at a discrepancy between what you already know or believe, and new information or interpretation. "

Thanks, that makes perfect sense and explains why Montana continues to receive #1 votes after that performance this weekend.

I said this over in another thread, and I'm not picking on Montana specifically. I just honestly struggle to see how so many people can see that result and say to him or herself:

"Ah-HAH, Yes, THAT's the best team in the land, they stand out above all the rest, they're the number 1 team. All the other teams in FCS should watch film of this game and take note."

As a fan of FCS, I'm insulted that people think that's as good as it gets at this level. I have a huge amount of respect for Montana and I'm not saying they're not a top 10 team, but #1 votes? Come on!!!

[uofmman1122]

Thanks, that makes perfect sense and explains why Montana continues to receive #1 votes after that performance this weekend.

I said this over in another thread, and I'm not picking on Montana specifically. I just honestly struggle to see how so many people can see that result and say to him or herself:

"Ah-HAH, Yes, THAT's the best team in the land, they stand out above all the rest, they're the number 1 team. All the other teams in FCS should watch film of this game and take note."

As a fan of FCS, I'm insulted that people think that's as good as it gets at this level. I have a huge amount of respect for Montana and I'm not saying they're not a top 10 team, but #1 votes? Come on!!!#1? Of course not. Not after that game. I don't know who voted them #1, but I sure didn't.

However, I don't see how you can be insulted by a week 5 poll.

It's week 5, FFS. It's not like a team lost in the playoffs and still received first place votes after the Championship. I think you're overreacting just a little bit. xrolleyesx

[Proud Griz Man]

Thanks, that makes perfect sense and explains why Montana continues to receive #1 votes after that performance this weekend.

I said this over in another thread, and I'm not picking on Montana specifically. I just honestly struggle to see how so many people can see that result and say to him or herself:

"Ah-HAH, Yes, THAT's the best team in the land, they stand out above all the rest, they're the number 1 team. All the other teams in FCS should watch film of this game and take note."

As a fan of FCS, I'm insulted that people think that's as good as it gets at this level. I have a huge amount of respect for Montana and I'm not saying they're not a top 10 team, but #1 votes? Come on!!!

Dukie: I did not argue that Montana should be #1. I did not say that UM should be #2, or #3, or #4. I merely pointed out that some people have concluded the UM schedule is weak and will not change their minds no matter what. xcoffeex

[Green26]

89Hen:

Those of us in the Big Sky believe Sac St and UNC have improved this year for these reasons, not for their wins over D-II schools:

Sac St - 3-2 - Lost 20-23 to Colorado St, but led or were tied most of the game, lost on a FG with no time remaining, and the winning FG was set up by a fumble on the SS 28.

-Lost 27-32 to Weber. Were unable to convert on 4th and goal from the 1 with 2:14 to go. Most in the conference believe the Weber is a top team this year, capable of beating anyone in the conference.

-Beat Portland St. PSU may not be very good this year, or at this time this year, but it's a conference win.

UNC -Were downto Purdue only 0-14 at the half, before losing 10-42.

- Lost 35-38 to Texas St. Sure Texas St. didn't win big over Angelo St, but lost only 36-47 to SMU.

-Lost only 22-25 to NAU. NAU is now ranked and thought to be fairly good or better.

UNC, while not there yet, has clearly improved, and is no longer an automatic big win in the Big Sky.

[grizbeer]

the NCAA doesn't recognize IAA either. it is FCS.

Actually, from that site:


221 221 0
166 166 0
80 2 0
72 13 0
DIVISION 1A AGAINST DIVISION 1A
DIVISION 1AA AGAINST DIVISION 1AA
DIVISION 1A AGAINST DIVISION 1AA
DIVISION 1A OR 1AA AGAINST DIVISION II - III

see page 3 of the NCAA link

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2008/Internet/toughest%20schedule/fcs_9games_cumm.pdf

just saying

[89Hen]

89Hen:

Those of us in the Big Sky believe Sac St and UNC have improved this year for these reasons, not for their wins over D-II schools...
We will revisit this at the end of the season. xpeacex

[Syntax Error]

Haha wow you just got mad about the whole 1AA vs. FCS thing .... i never thought a poster would dwell on that on any boards. HahahWelcome to AGS newbie. It isn't about getting mad, it is about getting the facts straight. BTW, it was never "1AA" and has been "FCS" for years. xnodx

[Syntax Error]

Actually, from that site:
see page 3 of the NCAA link
http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2008/Internet/toughest%20schedule/fcs_9games_cumm.pdf
just sayingSee the top of every page. Obviously someone gaffed at the bottom of the last page. Probably an FBS grad! xlolx

[elkmcc]

Haha wow you just got mad about the whole 1AA vs. FCS thing .... i never thought a poster would dwell on that on any boards. Hahah

R...., 'er Syntax Error pushed like a Freddie Mac lobbyist to get the name change and for some odd reason believes it a personal insult to use IAA instead of FCS. The rest of the story is that the vast majority of fans do not recognize the "FCS" acronym and those that do usually use "IAA/FCS".

[Syntax Error]

R...., 'er Syntax Error pushed like a Freddie Mac lobbyist to get the name changeThat is a flat out lie. xnonox I was VERY VOCAL AGAINST the name change but it was done years ago and I am not going to ignore the facts and discredit the level of football I love by getting the name wrong.

[Syntax Error]

#2 Montana Grizzlies
W-L 4-0
PF-PA 143-97
Per Game 35.75-24.25
Date Opponent W L Result PF PA Note
Sat 09/27/08 #148 C Washington 4 1 W 38 35
Sat 09/20/08 #157 UC Davis 1 4 W 29 24
Sat 09/13/08 #180 Southern Utah 2 3 W 46 10
Sat 09/06/08 at #103 Cal Poly SLO 2 1 W 30 28

Average opponent = #147

#4 New Hampshire Wildcats
W-L 4-0
PF-PA 153-83
Per Game 38.25-20.75
Date Opponent W L Result PF PA Note
Sat 09/27/08 at #258 Dartmouth 0 2 W 42 6
Sat 09/20/08 #168 Albany NY 1 3 W 32 24
Sat 09/13/08 at #219 Rhode Island 1 4 W 51 43
Sat 09/06/08 at #177 Army 0 4 W 28 10

Average opponent = #206

http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cf

[elkmcc]

That is a flat out lie. xnonox I was VERY VOCAL AGAINST the name change but it was done years ago and I am not going to ignore the facts and discredit the level of football I love by getting the name wrong.

Coming from a guy who would recognize a lie when he saw one.xrolleyesx

Cut the dramatics SE. The name change has been in effect a couple of seasons and I really doubt that anyone but you would think that using IAA instead of FCS would consider it "discrediting".

[Syntax Error]

Coming from a guy who would recognize a lie when he saw one.
Cut the dramatics SE. The name change has been in effect a couple of seasons and I really doubt that anyone but you would think that using IAA instead of FCS would consider it "discrediting".Take your personal problems away from AGS please. Post reported.

You, newbie, seem to think you speak for others. SHOCKER for you, you don't. If you don't like our name and just want to mock us then you can always leave. xrolleyesx

HINT, try to stay on topic and get your facts straight instead of just being a troll.

[elkmcc]

Take your personal problems away from AGS please. Post reported.

You, newbie, seem to think you speak for others. SHOCKER for you, you don't. If you don't like our name and just want to mock us then you can always leave. xrolleyesx

HINT, try to stay on topic and get your facts straight instead of just being a troll.

Special.xcoffeex

[rob_p469]

The "hater" crap gets old. I love my Griz. Just want a new coach, a new offense, a return to recruiting only quality kids, and a more competitive schedule. What is wrong with that. By the way, I am not alone in wanting these things, by a long shot. Open your eyes and ears.


So, let me see if I can get this straight. On the team you "love", you don't like the coach, the offense, or the kids that are recruited to play here, yet you don't consider yourself a hater. With intelligent arguments like that, I am shocked that everybody on here thinks your a complete moron.

[andy7171]

There is a place for these kinds of posts, it ain't here.

[rob_p469]

What, are you gonna beat me up? Go ahead, I would love to sue your fat arse. Trouble is, you have no money. You are such a tool. I am a member of the country club, former UM advisory board, hang out at several downtown bars, and I 'slink around town"? R-I-G-H-T

God I would love to know what bars you hang out at wolfie... I would love to run into you sometime, I don't think I have ever actually seen anybody with their head stuck in their a**... I wouldn't want to miss out on a sight like that... Oh, and the country club comment. As if you haven't alienated enough people on this site, you go and spout some elitist comments like that? From the bottom of my heart I can honestly say I feel really really sorry for you. Poor guy...

[Grizzaholic]

Well this thread is about to get closed, sent to smack, or deleted.

[Saint3333]

Both teams will make the playoffs and likely receive home games, but which one makes it out of the first round? I'd say Montana has the better team at this point, but they will likely draw a tougher first round opponent (MVC opponent) while NH gets a Patriot League foe.

Wait it's only September - what am I talking about?

[Ronbo]

You can discuss how good teams are till you're blue in the face, but only one group of people really know how good teams are this early. Coaches, and the Coaches poll has Montana 2nd, so they apparently feel we have played good teams.

[Grizzaholic]

You can discuss how good teams are till you're blue in the face, but only one group of people really know how good teams are this early. Coaches, and the Coaches poll has Montana 2nd, so they apparently feel we have played good teams.

Is there a Las Vegas poll for the FCS??? I know there is one for the FBS.

[JMU DUUUKES]

That is a flat out lie. xnonox I was VERY VOCAL AGAINST the name change but it was done years ago and I am not going to ignore the facts and discredit the level of football I love by getting the name wrong.

on CAAZone we just call it whichever you want and dont complain about it, its better that way. ESPN still even says 1AA and 1A. We even had a thread about how annoying it was when people care which term to use.

[89Hen]

You can discuss how good teams are till you're blue in the face, but only one group of people really know how good teams are this early. Coaches
xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

You mean the coaches that are busy 24/7 with their team and the team they are about to play. Shoot, I'd put my knowledge (or many others here) of I-AA in general up against ANY coach any day.

[Syntax Error]

You can discuss how good teams are till you're blue in the face, but only one group of people really know how good teams are this early. Coaches, and the Coaches poll has Montana 2nd, so they apparently feel we have played good teams.The coaches poll? xlolx Only coaches know how good all the FCS teams are? xlolx Even they admit they only know the teams on their schedule and have very vague knowledge of anyone else. Same with those beat writers and announcers. If they read AGS all the time then they are MUCH better informed but I doubt many of them do. xcoffeex

Seems like UM has played a better schedule so far than UNH but that SOS will change as they play more CAA games.

[JMU DUUUKES]

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

You mean the coaches that are busy 24/7 with their team and the team they are about to play. Shoot, I'd put my knowledge (or many others here) of I-AA in general up against ANY coach any day.

AHHH Hen look out, you have "1AA" all over your signature and avatar and even in this post, Syntax will be very angry with you !

[Syntax Error]

on CAAZone we just call it whichever you want and dont complain about it, its better that way. ESPN still even says 1AA and 1A. We even had a thread about how annoying it was when people care which term to use.So much for your conference board. If you think ESPN gets it right then more power to you... they get it wrong on a myriad of things. AGS isn't your conference board, it is the national FCS board so "little" things like getting names right are noticed. xcoffeex

PS The AFL and ABA are obsolete terms for the NFL and NBA too for example.

[JMU DUUUKES]

So much for your conference board. If you think ESPN gets it right then more power to you... they get it wrong on a myriad of things. AGS isn't your conference board, it is the national FCS board so "little" things like getting names right are noticed. xcoffeex

PS The AFL and ABA are obsolete terms for the NFL and NBA too for example.

alright this is stupid, truce ... haha

[Syntax Error]

AHHH Hen look out, you have "1AA" all over your signature and avatar and even in this post, Syntax will be very angry with you !89Hen does not have "1AA" in his signature. Like I said, no one is angry or mad as you say. It is about getting it right. xtwocentsx

and posting on topic

[89Hen]

AHHH Hen look out, you have "1AA" all over your signature and avatar and even in this post, Syntax will be very angry with you !
Nah. He knows I hated and still hate the name change. The day it was announced I made it clear I would never use FCS. xpeacex

[Grizzaholic]

Nah. He knows I hated and still hate the name change. The day it was announced I made it clear I would always use I-AA. xpeacex

Fixed it for ya.xthumbsupx

[Ronbo]

The Coaches know more in their pinky fingers than ten of you AGS voters know in a lifetime of armchair quarterbacking. That's a fact jack. I don't vote in the AGS poll because it is a fan poll, no serious credibility really. Ask anyone that votes in the Media or Coaches polls and they will dismiss this poll. It's fun but don't take yourselves too seriously. xcoffeex

[89Hen]

The Coaches know more in their pinky fingers than ten of you AGS voters know in a lifetime of armchair quarterbacking. That's a fact jack.
Know what? About a football offense or defense? Yup. About the offense of defense of NAU? Nope.

[89Hen]

Fixed it for ya.xthumbsupx
xlolx Leave it to you. After I typed FC... you know, I thought about that. xthumbsupx

[Syntax Error]

The Coaches know more in their pinky fingers than ten of you AGS voters know in a lifetime of armchair quarterbacking. That's a fact jack. I don't vote in the AGS poll because it is a fan poll, no serious credibility really. Ask anyone that votes in the Media or Coaches polls and they will dismiss this poll. It's fun but don't take yourselves too seriously. xcoffeexThere goes your credibility. TSN and Coaches poll voters take the AGS poll very seriously (hint, some vote in the AGS poll too and vice versa). I know this first hand. You are way off-base. I have interviewed coaches all over the country and I know what they have said and their knowledge of the FCS on the whole. Go ask your coach how the race is shaping up in the SWAC... Big South... Patriot League... MEAC... OVC... any league other than their own. They will tell you they don't know much about it. xnodx

[dwtime]

Your not going to convince anyone that Montana or UNH have decent strength of schedules. If I'm not mistaken, UNH doesn't have to play JMU, UD, or Richmond this year. Thats awful, not your fault, but awful.

And Montana, I've just accepted every year they play a crappy schedule and go nearly undefeated or undefeated. Its just gonna happen, we all gotta get over it.

Not having to play JMU, UD and Richmond in the regular season? Awfully good from where I see it! xthumbsupx

That said we still have to play W & M which is tough even when they don't have a good team and they do have a good one this year. UMass, almost always a two or three key play game. Northeastern falls in the same catagory as W & M, a good team this year. Did I fail to mention Nova? 3-0 in in the FCS. No easy ride here, but easier hopefully for not having to play JMU, UD and Richmond.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

The Coaches know more in their pinky fingers than ten of you AGS voters know in a lifetime of armchair quarterbacking. That's a fact jack. I don't vote in the AGS poll because it is a fan poll, no serious credibility really. Ask anyone that votes in the Media or Coaches polls and they will dismiss this poll. It's fun but don't take yourselves too seriously. xcoffeex


First, I question how many coaches actually vote in the poll.
AD's? SID's? perhaps...but coaches?

Second, Coaches are spending far to much time thinking about this weeks opponent to think about whats going on in another region.

[Grizzaholic]

xlolx Leave it to you. After I typed FC... you know, I thought about that. xthumbsupx

I just do what I can.

[CCU97]

Yes, but I was not trying to argue that either have elite schedules (though I frankly don't think Montana deserves any flack for their schedule this year), but rather I'm just curious how people evaluate them currently, being the two major undefeated teams left.

So far I would evaluate them no different than a team from a non-major who has a tough OOC schedule that is undefeated.....play some tough games and you will get recognized for being good...don't and see how far it gets you.

[Wolfman]

There goes your credibility. TSN and Coaches poll voters take the AGS poll very seriously (hint, some vote in the AGS poll too and vice versa). I know this first hand. You are way off-base. I have interviewed coaches all over the country and I know what they have said and their knowledge of the FCS on the whole. Go ask your coach how the race is shaping up in the SWAC... Big South... Patriot League... MEAC... OVC... any league other than their own. They will tell you they don't know much about it. xnodx



Agree Syntax

[Wolfman]

Take your personal problems away from AGS please. Post reported.

You, newbie, seem to think you speak for others. SHOCKER for you, you don't. If you don't like our name and just want to mock us then you can always leave. xrolleyesx

HINT, try to stay on topic and get your facts straight instead of just being a troll.

JimPacker is a joke on this board. He hi-jacks threads with his cute little trick of re-writing posts for the poster. Worthless and weak.

[Tailbone]

..... Worthless and weak.

hehe, that's what Mary said about you.

[ivyfan]

What do the Griz and the Wildcats have in common? ( hint....key position)xwhistlex

[SOCAL]

What do the Griz and the Wildcats have in common? ( hint....key position)xwhistlex,

QB's from the same league in southern California:)

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

,

QB's from the same league in southern California:)

Along with some team in FBS that just had an issue with some Beavers! ;) :D