8-3 for Playoffs but did you play a I-A

[Chi Panther]

I'm gonna take some crap for this.....but I just went thru the A-10 Schedule (not picking on the A-10...just using to make a playoff selection point) and I believe 5 of the 12 teams have played a I-A.

I'm sure the selection committee won't change the criteria....but it does really suck when you have teams playing a I-A money game and end up 7-4.

What are some thoughts on this...???

I know another week of football will sort it out more.....but this really does seem like a year where there are going to be some ROCK STAR 7-4 teams.....

[ASU Kep]

ONE I-A money game loss shouldn't affect your playoff chances, but to go 7-4 with three loses to I-AA's will (even in the A-10). App has probably the best shot of making it at 7-4 (not that this situation will occur) with loses to two I-A's, the #1 I-AA in the land on the road, and an in-state conference rival that always (attempts) to play us close. Even then, if a 7-4 App isn't a sure thing, I strongly doubt a 7-4 anybody else has a shot. I did make a post earlier wondering if the selection committee will go out of their way to include a strong 7-4 to encourage teams to schedule tougher schedules down the road (with the assurance that they will get equal consideration should they have quality wins over other good I-AA's) but it's just a theory. Who knows what goes on in their minds?

[AppGuy04]

ONE I-A money game loss shouldn't affect your playoff chances, but to go 7-4 with three loses to I-AA's will (even in the A-10). App has probably the best shot of making it at 7-4 (not that this situation will occur) with loses to two I-A's, the #1 I-AA in the land on the road, and an in-state conference rival that always (attempts) to play us close. Even then, if a 7-4 App isn't a sure thing, I strongly doubt a 7-4 anybody else has a shot. I did make a post earlier wondering if the selection committee will go out of their way to include a strong 7-4 to encourage teams to schedule tougher schedules down the road (with the assurance that they will get equal consideration should they have quality wins over other good I-AA's) but it's just a theory. Who knows what goes on in their minds?

IMHO, i think that the selection committee shouldn't look at I-A games when looking for selections

[colgate13]

IMHO, i think that the selection committee shouldn't look at I-A games when looking for selections

I agree. The problem though is when you have only 7 I-AA wins vs. a team that has 8 or 9. You can't give credit to the 7 win team for one or two more wins if they had not played a I-A and played a I-AA instead.

:twocents:

[AppGuy04]

I agree. The problem though is when you have only 7 I-AA wins vs. a team that has 8 or 9. You can't give credit to the 7 win team for one or two more wins if they had not played a I-A and played a I-AA instead.

:twocents:

well, honestly, if those 7 wins are against better competition, i'd take them over the 8 or 9 win team

[ChickenMan]

well, honestly, if those 7 wins are against better competition, i'd take them over the 8 or 9 win team


Make your choice... Payday or Playoffs... sometimes you can't have both... ;)

[AppGuy04]

Make your choice... Payday or Playoffs... sometimes you can't have both... ;)

this year we get both, mark it

[colgate13]

this year we get both, mark it

Quite possible. But I would say this is an odd year. If a one or two more A-10, BSC or Gateway teams hadn't beat up on each other, you'd probably be choosing the paydays over the playoffs.

[colgate13]

well, honestly, if those 7 wins are against better competition, i'd take them over the 8 or 9 win team

And I disagree with that because you're giving yourself credit for what would have happened if you played I-AA teams instead, and you're also assuming the 8 or 9 win team couldn't have done the same thing with another schedule.

[AppGuy04]

Quite possible. But I would say this is an odd year. If a one or two more A-10, BSC or Gateway teams hadn't beat up on each other, you'd probably be choosing the paydays over the playoffs.

at 8-3?

[colgate13]

at 8-3?

No no no... this is a 7-4 hypothetical. Sorry if I wasn't clear. :cool:

[AppGuy04]

And I disagree with that because you're giving yourself credit for what would have happened if you played I-AA teams instead, and you're also assuming the 8 or 9 win team couldn't have done the same thing with another schedule.

thats why i said if

[AppGuy04]

No no no... this is a 7-4 hypothetical. Sorry if I wasn't clear. :cool:

agreed then

[OL FU]

Make your choice... Payday or Playoffs... sometimes you can't have both... ;)

Absolutely, to say I am 7-4 but lost big time to 2 I-A's is ridiculous. You can't assume that you would be 9-2 if you had played I-AA's. On the other hand this thread is about 8-3's. :confused: :o

[WhereDoITypeMyUsername?]

Big losses are one thing, but you GOTTA consider wins or close games over I-A's.

If you think Portland State's 21-14 loss to Boise State (where BSU had to score in the 4th quarter to win it) means less than, say, Hampton's come-from-behind victory over Howard, you're kidding yourself. A win over Howard being considered but an almost-win over Boise State not being considered is ridiculous.

[colgate13]

Big losses are one thing, but you GOTTA consider wins or close games over I-A's.

A win over Howard being considered but an almost-win over Boise State not being considered is ridiculous.

Wins over I-A's are one thing. Close games are not. It's still a loss.

An 'almost-win' could be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of. It's a loss. Don't give a team credit for a I-AA win in place of a I-A 'almost-win'.

[colgate13]

If you think Portland State's 21-14 loss to Boise State (where BSU had to score in the 4th quarter to win it) means less than, say, Hampton's come-from-behind victory over Howard, you're kidding yourself.

Even better:

I'm not kidding myself when I look at UC Davis. They actually win against a good I-A but lose to some I-AA's. You can't say that if they played Stanford really close but lost, that they would have a I-AA win in its place.


In that case, Hampton's actual win is better.

:twocents:

[89Hen]

An 'almost-win' could be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of. It's a loss. Don't give a team credit for a I-AA win in place of a I-A 'almost-win'.
How about a I-AA 'almost-win', can I please count them?

[OL FU]

Wins over I-A's are one thing. Close games are not. It's still a loss.

An 'almost-win' could be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of. It's a loss. Don't give a team credit for a I-AA win in place of a I-A 'almost-win'.

I will disagree somewhat. Not that an almost win is as good as a win. I would look at a close loss to a Boise in a similar fashion as a close loss to a top I-AA. A close game against a more average I-A team at least gives you something to judge the team. A whipping by a top ten I-A team just confirms what you already know.

[ASU Kep]

I don't know. If we were to take LSU to triple overtime or something this week and DROPPED in the I-AA rankings, I'd be pissed. Really pissed. So would the LSU coaching staff, but thats a different matter. If a I-AA is good enough to keep it close with a good I-A it says a lot about them as a team, IMO. Good talent, execution, depth, and HEART.

[WhereDoITypeMyUsername?]

A win is a win, sure. But a close loss to a good I-A is better than a close win over a crappy I-AA.

I suspect being a fan of a team in a power conference probably ingrains an inherent disrespect for cupcake schedules.

[OL FU]

I don't know. If we were to take LSU to triple overtime or something this week and DROPPED in the I-AA rankings, I'd be pissed. Really pissed. So would the LSU coaching staff, but thats a different matter. If a I-AA is good enough to keep it close with a good I-A it says a lot about them as a team, IMO. Good talent, execution, depth, and HEART.

I agree but I don't think we have to worry too much about that. My point was it means something if the game is close and a loss. It means nothing if the margin is ridiculous.

PS, I would like nothing better than to see you beat them in a triple overtime, but like I said somewhere else, this is LSU not Pitt. :)

[SoCon48]

A win is a win, sure. But a close loss to a good I-A is better than a close win over a crappy I-AA.

I suspect being a fan of a team in a power conference probably ingrains an inherent disrespect for cupcake schedules.

I agree, but judging from the "whoring for money game" posts on here, we're in the minority.

[SoCon48]

I agree but I don't think we have to worry too much about that. My point was it means something if the game is close and a loss. It means nothing if the margin is ridiculous.

PS, I would like nothing better than to see you beat them in a triple overtime, but like I said somewhere else, this is LSU not Pitt. :)

ASU lost in the last minute to Auburn the other year. Remained in 4th in one poll and dropped in another.
Got by some average to below average I-AA's and moved up.

[OL FU]

ASU lost in the last minute to Auburn the other year. Remained in 4th in one poll and dropped in another.
Got by some average to below average I-AA's and moved up.

I should clarify that it means something to me if the game is close :)

[Reed Rothchild]

Say it to yourself..

There is no such thing as a quality loss
There is no such thing as a quality loss
There is no such thing as a quality loss

[youwouldno]

That's odd, I always thought the point of the playoff selection committee was to put in the most deserving teams. I didn't realize meaningless wins over garbage I-AA teams proved a team was deserving.

Record is totally worthless without context. And I mean totally. It means nothing in and of itself-- if a team played 11 HS teams would that 11-0 record be impressive? Not to me.

Unless you believe a win over a HS team is better than taking Southern Cal to OT before losing, then the position that a win is always better than a loss is rather simply wrong.

[AppGuy04]

Say it to yourself..

There is no such thing as a quality loss
There is no such thing as a quality loss
There is no such thing as a quality loss

disagree
disagree
disagree

[OL FU]

That's odd, I always thought the point of the playoff selection committee was to put in the most deserving teams. I didn't realize meaningless wins over garbage I-AA teams proved a team was deserving.

Record is totally worthless without context. And I mean totally. It means nothing in and of itself-- if a team played 11 HS teams would that 11-0 record be impressive? Not to me.

Unless you believe a win over a HS team is better than taking Southern Cal to OT before losing, then the position that a win is always better than a loss is rather simply wrong.

I guess this will be argued forever. It depends on the context in which you are arguing. But we are not talking about high school teams nor are we talking about taking Southern Cal to overtime. The comment on LSU, above, was an example and not a good one. First, easy schedules depend on where you are coming from. Over the off season, whether you agree or not, some of our posters were talking about how easy FU's season was last year. Yeah we had Pitt and GSU, but what else did we have. You ought to be 9-2 with that kinda schedule. I didn't agree but the argument can and will be made, right or wrong, with respect to lots of teams. Second, this is about looking at the season as a whole. Not just one game. If you look at one game, or even a series of games, where a team did not blow out another team, you could make lots of arguments about good records not counting for much. The point is winning is more important than losing. If we want to talk about schedules, if I wanted to and I don't, I could easily justify putting a 7-4 Montana State or Cal Poly in the playoffs over a 9-2 (and I hope we are better than that) Furman. By the time the season is over we may have only played two teams that finish in the top 20 (maybe one). Cal Poly and MSU may have played five. I guess we should just turn it over to the computers and let them decide who plays the toughest schedule and who had the best results regardless of the records. That's why the almighty Sagarin has FU rated somewhere around 15. If that was the situation, where wins don't matter, a school should schedule the toughest teams possible, hope they show well and walk into the playoffs with losing record. Oh, yeah the rules required 7 wins, I guess someone thinks it matters if you win.

[youwouldno]

Err, I wasn't arguing that it doesn't matter whether a team wins.

I said wins must be understood in the context they were achieved.

Beating Savannah State is not an accomplishment. It's not a "win" that matters because 115 I-AA teams could do it.

The playoffs are for the conference winners, 8 of them, and then 8 at-large teams.

Those 8 at-large teams should be those that had the most impressive regular season body of work. That means some quality wins and few losses (though losses to playoff-caliber teams and I-A teams are less problematic, because the team in question could very well be playoff caliber in that case).

CCU, for instance, beat JMU and SC St. JMU is now unranked, and SC St. should be. Delaware would probably have the same record as CCU with the same schedule, but I don't see anyone saying Delaware is a playoff team.

It's on CCU and teams like them to prove they should be in with the teams from good conferences. Playing Mansfield and Savannah State doesn't cut it.

[OL FU]

Err, I wasn't arguing that it doesn't matter whether a team wins.

I said wins must be understood in the context they were achieved.

Beating Savannah State is not an accomplishment. It's not a "win" that matters because 115 I-AA teams could do it.

The playoffs are for the conference winners, 8 of them, and then 8 at-large teams.

Those 8 at-large teams should be those that had the most impressive regular season body of work. That means some quality wins and few losses (though losses to playoff-caliber teams and I-A teams are less problematic, because the team in question could very well be playoff caliber in that case).

CCU, for instance, beat JMU and SC St. JMU is now unranked, and SC St. should be. Delaware would probably have the same record as CCU with the same schedule, but I don't see anyone saying Delaware is a playoff team.

It's on CCU and teams like them to prove they should be in with the teams from good conferences. Playing Mansfield and Savannah State doesn't cut it.

Did not mean to rant. Don't disagree. however, so much has been made of one particular game. Is losing ot LSU better than beating the slop out of Mansfield (Where is Mansfield anyway?) When you really have to look at the entire season. It is a oombination of both things.

[Chi Panther]

I can't help but think if you're record at the end of the year is 7-4 and lost to a I-A BCS team.....and you miss the playoffs this year.....you're really going to be jealous of an 8-3 team that got in not playing a I-A team.

[OL FU]

I can't help but think if you're record at the end of the year is 7-4 and lost to a I-A BCS team.....and you miss the playoffs this year.....you're really going to be jealous of an 8-3 team that got in not playing a I-A team.

Yep, but those are the risk/rewards of scheduling I-A's. On the other hand and all other things being equal, I would hate to not get a bid as an 8-3 team when a 7-4 (with a I-A loss ) did.

[89Hen]

I can't help but think if you're record at the end of the year is 7-4 and lost to a I-A BCS team.....and you miss the playoffs this year.....you're really going to be jealous of an 8-3 team that got in not playing a I-A team.
I had that discussion with I-AA2005. That's the peril of scheduling one.

[nmatsen]

I can't help but think if you're record at the end of the year is 7-4 and lost to a I-A BCS team.....and you miss the playoffs this year.....you're really going to be jealous of an 8-3 team that got in not playing a I-A team.

9 times out of 10 a mis-match by division is a sure loss or sure victory by the scale of 1-A>1-AA>D-II. If this is the case you must look at last years Northern Iowa team going 7-4 with one of their losses coming to Big XII North Co-Champion Iowa State. They were left out of the playoffs even though when the season ended they were probably one of the best teams in the Nation they were still 7-4 so I understand them not getting into the playoffs. With 7 D-1 wins and 4 losses they were technically eligible however still left out. Now take one of the 8-3 teams who played a D-II school last year and did not play a D-1A and made the field of 16, were they a better football team than Northern Iowa in mid November? No! For two at-large teams should they not have gotten in? The case of that this year will be Illinois State, trust me, they would be a force.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Did not mean to rant. Don't disagree. however, so much has been made of one particular game. Is losing ot LSU better than beating the slop out of Mansfield (Where is Mansfield anyway?) When you really have to look at the entire season. It is a oombination of both things.

Mansfield is located about 50 miles due north of Williamsport, PA(home of the Little League World Series), basically it's in the middle of freaking no where. They're a member of the PSAC which comprises all of the other smaller PA state schools. They have an enrollment of about 5,000. I believe either the county it's in or the next one over has entire poplulation of 1,200 or somethin rediculous. The school itself is terrible, i live about an hour from the campus and noone in their right mind would go there unless you couldn't get in junior college. The football program has been one of the worst as any level for years now. It's a shame CCU has to play them. I'm not sure how the school was able to fund a trip down to South Carolina? Is Coastal Carolina helping to cover some their costs?

[rokamortis]

Mansfield is located about 50 miles due north of Williamsport, PA(home of the Little League World Series), basically it's in the middle of freaking no where. They're a member of the PSAC which comprises all of the other smaller PA state schools. They have an enrollment of about 5,000. I believe either the county it's in or the next one over has entire poplulation of 1,200 or somethin rediculous. The school itself is terrible, i live about an hour from the campus and noone in their right mind would go there unless you couldn't get in junior college. The football program has been one of the worst as any level for years now. It's a shame CCU has to play them. I'm not sure how the school was able to fund a trip down to South Carolina? Is Coastal Carolina helping to cover some their costs?

Yeah - I think we are helping them out with some $ - not LSU cash mind you.