Is FCS really that far behind FBS?

[ncguitarplyr]

Our #1 team (Richmond) lost to FBS bottomfeeder Virginia
Our #2 team (James Madison) lost to FBS bottomfeeder Duke
Our #3 team (Appalachian State) lost to a team (James Madison) that lost to Duke (ouch)


If you asked me last year I'd say the top half of FCS is aligned with the bottom half of FBS, but this year I'd say we just suck (unfortunately) tell me I'm wrong

[CID1990]

The short answer is no. The best FCS teams are better than the worst FBS teams. I would say that the league overlap is probably something like the top 25 teams in FCS are better than the bottom 25 teams in FBS.

[Syntax Error]

It has been proven in the past that FCS is not that far behind FBS teams NOT in the traditional BCS. In fact, it has been proven that FCS matches up nearly as well as non-traditional FBS teams against trad BCS teams too. xtwocentsx

[JohnStOnge]

Last year things worked out well with some games falling the FCS way. This year not so much. McNeese had a real shot to beat North Carolina and Eastern Washington had a real shot to beat Colorado. Right now North Carolina, which blew out Rutgers and was handling Virginia Tech pretty well before their starting quarterback got hurt, and Colorado, which is 3-0, look to be pretty decent BCS league teams.

Just a shame that McNeese and Eastern Washington didn't quite get it done.

[Syntax Error]

Last year things worked out well with some games falling the FCS way. This year not so much. McNeese had a real shot to beat North Carolina and Eastern Washington had a real shot to beat Colorado. Right now North Carolina, which blew out Rutgers and was handling Virginia Tech pretty well before their starting quarterback got hurt, and Colorado, which is 3-0, look to be pretty decent BCS league teams.

Just a shame that McNeese and Eastern Washington didn't quite get it done.The master of this subject has spoken.

[Jackman]

How about the bottom 25 of FCS against the top 25 of Division II?

[Cobblestone]

The biggest problem when FCS plays FBS teams is usually depth. The FBS rosters are bigger and deeper at all positions. The avergage FCS team may be only 2 or 3 deep while the average FBS team can be 4 or 5 deep. It makes a big difference to have fresh legs at all positions during a game.

[Syntax Error]

How about the bottom 25 of FCS against the top 25 of Division II?completely different topic/thread xcoffeex

[dgreco]

using the rating systems bottom 25 of FBS are

Northern Illinois
Wyoming
Rutgers
Temple
Florida Atlantic
Western Kentucky
New Mexico St.
Memphis
Ohio
Louisiana-Laff.
Washington St.
Miami OH
Utah State
Louisiana-Monroe
Syracuse
Eastern Michigan
San Diego St.
UTEP
SMU
Kent St.
Florida International
UAB
North Texas
Idaho
Army

top 25 FCS

Northern Iowa
Richmond
Montana
Furman
JMU
App St.
Cal Poly
McNeese St.
Eastern Washington
New Hampshire
South Dakota St.
Delaware
Elon
Wofford
Villanova
Southern Illinois
UMass
Yale
Harvard
William & Mary
Western Illinois
Citadel
North Dakota St.
Central Arkansas
Georgia Southern


I think the Top 25 FCS are better than that Bottom 25 FBS. We have seen some of the Top 25 FCS beat these Bottom 25 FBS teams.

[dgreco]

Where the heck is Buffalo?

they are 2-1 or 3-1 this year arent they? They aren't the bottom feeders of the MAC anymore

[DB_Atlantic10]

How many of those FBS vs FCS games were played at FCS stadiums? Exactly "0".... Home field advantage is a mother.....!!!! Look at the top FCS programs in regards to fan support... Montana 23K, Delaware 22 and App St. 20plusK...that's it and it's tough to win in those places. Now imagine having to play at FBS stadiums averaging 50K plus....and the fans always show up for the easy FCS wins. Add in another 22 plus schollies, 90 plus FBS homefield addressing advantages vs the FCS 56 max travel squad..... Then factor in that most FBS coaches know that their jobs will be on the line if they lose this game....platooning lineman.... They should win!!! xrulesx

[smallcollegefbfan]

How about the bottom 25 of FCS against the top 25 of Division II?

The top 10-15 D2 teams are definitely faster and more talented than the Pioneer-League, NEC, etc. I think the top 2-4 D2 teams would be top 30-40 in the FCS.

[mcveyrl]

Our #1 team (Richmond) lost to FBS bottomfeeder Virginia
Our #2 team (James Madison) lost to FBS bottomfeeder Duke
Our #3 team (Appalachian State) lost to a team (James Madison) that lost to Duke (ouch)


If you asked me last year I'd say the top half of FCS is aligned with the bottom half of FBS, but this year I'd say we just suck (unfortunately) tell me I'm wrong

Just to dissuade some of your fears, the JMU team that played Duke is not the team that played ASU. Much bigger playbook and much better QB play.

[GannonFan]

It has been proven in the past that FCS is not that far behind FBS teams NOT in the traditional BCS. In fact, it has been proven that FCS matches up nearly as well as non-traditional FBS teams against trad BCS teams too. xtwocentsx

Not entirely correct - the WAC and the Mountain West have stepped it up in recent years and have done far better more consistently against BCS conferences than the FCS has. Certainly the FCS does well against the Sun Belt's and MAC's of the world, but it's stretching it too far to say that all non-BCS teams aren't too far ahead of the FCS.

[Bettina90]

Never understood why people care so much about this "issue". It smacks of the height of inferiority. If you are so concerned then lobby your school to go D-I and find out.

[MaximumBobcat]

IMO, the bottom 25 of the FBS are better than the top 25 of FCS (AS A WHOLE!) and the top 25 of DII are better than the bottom 25 of FCS.

[McNeese72]

Never understood why people care so much about this "issue". It smacks of the height of inferiority. If you are so concerned then lobby your school to go D-I and find out.

The FCS and FBS schools are all D-1. ;)

Doc

[DaveK]

Never understood why people care so much about this "issue". It smacks of the height of inferiority. If you are so concerned then lobby your school to go D-I and find out.

Couldn't agree more. I for one am secure with where my team is it and therefore do not concern myself with such petty thoughts.

[Syntax Error]

The FCS and FBS schools are all D-1Actually they are all D-I. xnodx :p

[Hoyadestroya85]

it's not about the bottom 25.. it's about the composite
the answer is yes. I don't understand the delusional view/inferiority complex that some people have with relation to I-A, the fact is that it is that on the whole simply better.

[danefan]

The top 10-15 D2 teams are definitely faster and more talented than the Pioneer-League, NEC, etc. I think the top 2-4 D2 teams would be top 30-40 in the FCS.

Then the bottom of the PFL & NEC, yes. Same goes for the bottom of the MEAC, PL, SWAC, and Ivy's. And perhaps even the OVC.

However, you'd be hard pressed to find a DII better then Albany, Dayton, Harvard, Holy Cross, Alabama State, etc....

xtwocentsx

But AGS.....

[smallcollegefbfan]

Then the bottom of the PFL & NEC, yes. Same goes for the bottom of the MEAC, PL, SWAC, and Ivy's. And perhaps even the OVC.

However, you'd be hard pressed to find a DII better then Albany, Dayton, Harvard, Holy Cross, Alabama State, etc....

xtwocentsx

But AGS.....

I see what your saying but I don't think any of the teams you mentioned would want to play Grand Valley State or Valdosta. There are certainly 3-4 teams from all those leagues that could likely beat the D2 teams. Not sure I would throw Alabama St or Holy Cross in there.

[danefan]

I see what your saying but I don't think any of the teams you mentioned would want to play Grand Valley State or Valdosta. There are certainly 3-4 teams from all those leagues that could likely beat the D2 teams. Not sure I would throw Alabama St or Holy Cross in there.

Maybe not Holy Cross, but I do think Alabama State is a pretty good ball team. They looked really good thursday night. Maybe that was because Miss. Valley State was so bad? Regardless I do think Alabama State is a pretty good team.

And no doubt about it, top DII schools are just as good as the middle of the pack and bottom of the top of the FCS teams. No doubt.

[JohnStOnge]

it's not about the bottom 25.. it's about the composite
the answer is yes. I don't understand the delusional view/inferiority complex that some people have with relation to I-A, the fact is that it is that on the whole simply better.

I don't think there's anybody who doesn't realize that FBS teams are, on average, substantially better than FCS teams. What we're talking about is the overlap. It's just the idea that one can't assume that in every pairwise comparison between the two groups that the FBS team is going to be better.

We had a discussion of FCS vs. FBS matchups for 2008 during this past summer and my recollection is that most of us thought there weren't many matchups that looked good for the FCS teams. There just aren't a lot of matchups this year such that a top FCS teams play bottom FBS teams.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Maybe not Holy Cross, but I do think Alabama State is a pretty good ball team. They looked really good thursday night. Maybe that was because Miss. Valley State was so bad? Regardless I do think Alabama State is a pretty good team.

And no doubt about it, top DII schools are just as good as the middle of the pack and bottom of the top of the FCS teams. No doubt.

Anyone have a list of FCS vs. D2 scores from this year to gauge?

[813Jag]

Maybe not Holy Cross, but I do think Alabama State is a pretty good ball team. They looked really good thursday night. Maybe that was because Miss. Valley State was so bad? Regardless I do think Alabama State is a pretty good team.

And no doubt about it, top DII schools are just as good as the middle of the pack and bottom of the top of the FCS teams. No doubt.
They looked good because Valley is that bad, the jury is still out on the Hornets. Valley's last three games they gave up 49, 49, and 55 (?xconfusedx ) points.

[danefan]

They looked good because Valley is that bad, the jury is still out on the Hornets. Valley's last three games they gave up 49, 49, and 55 (?xconfusedx ) points.

I though ASU (yes App fans, Alabama State Univ.) just looked polished. Even the backup QB looked pretty decent.

I don't know much about the SWAC teams, but do you think ASU has a shot at the title this year?

[wkuhillhound]

using the rating systems bottom 25 of FBS are

Northern Illinois
Wyoming
Rutgers
Temple
Florida Atlantic
Western Kentucky
New Mexico St.
Memphis
Ohio
Louisiana-Laff.
Washington St.
Miami OH
Utah State
Louisiana-Monroe
Syracuse
Eastern Michigan
San Diego St.
UTEP
SMU
Kent St.
Florida International
UAB
North Texas
Idaho
Army

top 25 FCS

Northern Iowa
Richmond
Montana
Furman
JMU
App St.
Cal Poly
McNeese St.
Eastern Washington
New Hampshire
South Dakota St.
Delaware
Elon
Wofford
Villanova
Southern Illinois
UMass
Yale
Harvard
William & Mary
Western Illinois
Citadel
North Dakota St.
Central Arkansas
Georgia Southern


I think the Top 25 FCS are better than that Bottom 25 FBS. We have seen some of the Top 25 FCS beat these Bottom 25 FBS teams.

rapidly becoming out of the bottom 25. Especially if we able to compete with the University of Kentucky today. xthumbsupx

not close to competitive with BCS teams (yet).

[Chi Panther]

How many of those FBS vs FCS games were played at FCS stadiums? Exactly "0".... Home field advantage is a mother.....!!!! Look at the top FCS programs in regards to fan support... Montana 23K, Delaware 22 and App St. 20plusK...that's it and it's tough to win in those places. Now imagine having to play at FBS stadiums averaging 50K plus....and the fans always show up for the easy FCS wins. Add in another 22 plus schollies, 90 plus FBS homefield addressing advantages vs the FCS 56 max travel squad..... Then factor in that most FBS coaches know that their jobs will be on the line if they lose this game....platooning lineman.... They should win!!! xrulesx

Agree completely about the home field.

Its hard to compare scores.....but check out games in Provo so far....
8/30 Northern Iowa 1-0 (0-0) W 41-17
9/06 @ Washington 2-0 (0-0) W 28-27
9/13 UCLA 3-0 (0-0) W 59-0
9/20 Wyoming 4-0 (1-0) W 44-0

I think UNI can hold their heads high considering the 4th Quarter started at 27 to 17.....xbowx

[Syntax Error]

Agree completely about the home field.

Its hard to compare scores.....but check out games in Provo so far....
8/30 Northern Iowa 1-0 (0-0) W 41-17
9/06 @ Washington 2-0 (0-0) W 28-27
9/13 UCLA 3-0 (0-0) W 59-0
9/20 Wyoming 4-0 (1-0) W 44-0

I think UNI can hold their heads high considering the 4th Quarter started at 27 to 17.....xbowxJust the point that has been made.

24 - UNI point differential
59 - UCLA point differential
44 - Wyoming point differential

Is FCS really that far behind FBS?

[Chi Panther]

Just the point that has been made.

24 - UNI point differential
59 - UCLA point differential
44 - Wyoming point differential

Is FCS really that far behind FBS?

A couple of things are interesting in response.

First I just want to say "NO" and leave it at that. We are not that far behind FBS.

However, for the most part we are 22 scholllies behind. But IMO we are just 22 schollies behind for teams rated from about #40 to #60. Any team in the TOP 40 we are more than 22 schollies behind with the significant Revenue and Money Diff. Even if App State played all 11 games against Top 40 teams....I bet they would only win 1 or 2. $$$ and 22 schollies over the course of the year is too much. Now for the teams rated #61 to 119....they are at a dissadvantage to the Top I-AA even with 22 more schollies because of the transfer Rule. Joe Flacco is not going to go from Pitt to Buffalo or E. Michigan.....he's gonna go to Delaware. I just think its easier to recruit to Delaware with the tradition and transfer rule than it is to build a program at E. Michigan....

[ncman071]

its simple, yes IAA is "far behind" IA. 63 full scholorships vs 85 fulls is a huge difference especially in depth. Our starters arent that much less skilled than most IA programs but when you start looking at 2nd and 3rd strings per position especially on the O line and D line there is so much more of a dropoff in size and skill level for those players.

[Syntax Error]

its simple, yes IAA is "far behind" IA...IAA? IA? Didn't those go away years ago? :p

[patssle]

We are not that far behind BCS.


The BCS? Are you serious?

[txphi592]

You guys are funny.

[Chi Panther]

The BCS? Are you serious?

Miss type...meant FBS

[Syntax Error]

to clarify, all FBS is BCS, has been for years

[Syntax Error]

You guys are funny.xlolx xlolx San Marcos fan? xlolx xlolx

[txphi592]

REALITY CHECK

Considering this is a FCS fan site, the pie in the sky replies are not suprising I guess...but some of this is just laughable, FCS is not that close to FBS on ANY level. Quality of recruits and coaches, skill level at every position, facilities, fan base, exposure, MONEY, number of scholarships, essentially every facet of the game is on a much higher level in FBS..it hurts but it is true. xeyebrowx

[Syntax Error]

REALITY CHECK

Considering this is a FCS fan site, the pie in the sky replies are not suprising I guess...but some of this is just laughable, FCS is not that close to FBS on ANY level. Quality of recruits and coaches, skill level at every position, facilities, fan base, exposure, MONEY, number of scholarships, essentially every facet of the game is on a much higher level in FBS..it hurts but it is true. xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xrolleyesx

Yep, San Marcos fan...........

Just back away from the keyboard and do some research, sir.

This is the FCS Discussion board not the "FBS is better because FBS is better board"

xlolx xlolx xlolx xnodx xlolx

[Chi Panther]

REALITY CHECK

Considering this is a FCS fan site, the pie in the sky replies are not suprising I guess...but some of this is just laughable, FCS is not that close to FBS on ANY level. Quality of recruits and coaches, skill level at every position, facilities, fan base, exposure, MONEY, number of scholarships, essentially every facet of the game is on a much higher level in FBS..it hurts but it is true. xeyebrowx

Those MAC teams can really beat UNI....xthumbsupx

The TOP 40 there is no comparison...but sorry...The Elite FCS can play with #60 to 119 of FBS.....xnodx

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

REALITY CHECK

Considering this is a FCS fan site, the pie in the sky replies are not suprising I guess...but some of this is just laughable, FCS is not that close to FBS on ANY level. Quality of recruits and coaches, skill level at every position, facilities, fan base, exposure, MONEY, number of scholarships, essentially every facet of the game is on a much higher level in FBS..it hurts but it is true. xeyebrowx

I guess you missed the North Dakota State -Central Michigan game last year...and the McNeese Stte ULL game ... and the New Hampshire Marshall game in 2004 and their game with Army this year. The top of the FCS is better than the bottom of the FBS no if, ands, or buts. BTW, look at how VMI is playing Ohio, and VMI is hardly an FCS power.

[JohnStOnge]

REALITY CHECK

Considering this is a FCS fan site, the pie in the sky replies are not suprising I guess...but some of this is just laughable, FCS is not that close to FBS on ANY level. Quality of recruits and coaches, skill level at every position, facilities, fan base, exposure, MONEY, number of scholarships, essentially every facet of the game is on a much higher level in FBS..it hurts but it is true. xeyebrowx

Again, nobody would argue that the FBS is a higher overall level and that its teams are better on average. However, it's clear that the top teams in FCS are comparable overall to teams in the mid to lower levels of FBS in caliber.

For example: Since the BCS started in 1998, I-AA/FCS teams that went on to make the playoffs are 28 - 35 vs. non BCS I-A/FBS teams. The average score is 30 - 24 non BCS I-A/FBS. But it should be noted that I-AA/FCS teams were at home for only 3 of those 63 games.

I also think most would agree that the 16 teams in the I-AA/FCS playoff field in a given year are rarely if ever actually the best 16 teams in the subdivision. I just use playoff teams because it's provides for an objective selection of the "top."

Also, "non BCS" isn't the "bottom 25" or anything like that in I-A/FBS either. Just another way to stay objective.

[DSUHornet]

we lost to kent state who just got hammered into the ground by ball state who will not even end the season competing for the bcs xmadx