D I-A Losses

[shakdaddy3]

Why do D 1-A losses count against a teams record for the playoffs? Furthermore, since they do count, why don't D II WINS counts towards the playoffs? In my opinion, a D II win - since it doesn't count towards the plaoffs - is similar to a D I-A loss in the sense that a team is not playing another team in the same division of football. Anyone out there know or could give a good B.S. answer to tide me over? Thanks.

[crunifan]

I would assume it is to encourage playing harder teams. :confused:

[rokamortis]

IA and IAA are both Division I - that's why.

[ucdtim17]

They should count. You should expect to win. Why even play them if you don't think they're real games? UCD has been by far the most underranked team the past 2 weeks according to GPI, and all season long after the Stanford win - it's this kind of thinking that doesn't allow people to compute that UCD beat Stanford. UCD and CP are playing at SJSU next year; I expect UCD to win and I'll be disappointed as hell if they don't.

[siugrad99]

He is asking because ILSU layed a big fat egg against Western Illinois Saturday and now they are basically out of any shot at the playoffs.

[SoCon48]

IA and IAA are both Division I - that's why.

That's what the NCAA wants us to think. At the same time, they penalize I-A teams for scheduling us. Does that sound like we're truly in the same division?
Either we are or we aren't. If we are, then they should remove the extra A and the restriction on scheduling us.
Too, if a player transfers from I-A to I-AA, he doesn't have to sit out a year, but if he transfers from I-A to another I-A he does. Same with I-AA to Div II..he doesn't. But hey, I'm certainly not complaining about our immigrants from I-A.

[GrizSweeper]

They should count. You should expect to win. Why even play them if you don't think they're real games? UCD has been by far the most underranked team the past 2 weeks according to GPI, and all season long after the Stanford win - it's this kind of thinking that doesn't allow people to compute that UCD beat Stanford. UCD and CP are playing at SJSU next year; I expect UCD to win and I'll be disappointed as hell if they don't.

Money

[skinny_uncle]

IA and IAA are both Division I - that's why.
That might be, but IA teams are allowed more scholarships, so they are distinctly different divisions. IA also gets a lot more TV time which translates to more money which also makes a difference, whether we like it or not.
IA is basically the minor league for players for the NFL. IAA is mostly amateur football for scholar-athletes.
The IAA rules for an at-large bid include a requirement for 7 DI wins. Whether a school decides to schedule a DIA for money is up to them. If they have the audacity to win such a game, it should count towards the requirement. This rule is to discourage teams from fattening up their win total against DII teams.

[ucdtim17]

That's what the NCAA wants us to think. At the same time, they penalize I-A teams for scheduling us. Does that sound like we're truly in the same division?


Now I-A schools are allowed to count one I-AA game/year towards bowl eligibility. They aren't penalized

[shakdaddy3]

They should count. You should expect to win. Why even play them if you don't think they're real games? UCD has been by far the most underranked team the past 2 weeks according to GPI, and all season long after the Stanford win - it's this kind of thinking that doesn't allow people to compute that UCD beat Stanford. UCD and CP are playing at SJSU next year; I expect UCD to win and I'll be disappointed as hell if they don't.

Yes, you expect to win all the games you play. But, there is no denying the fact that I-A schools have a great advantage over I-AA schools. Just like there is no denying that I-AA has a great advantage over D-II schools. And like the other posts have said, there is unfair treatment concerning I-A to I-AA to D-II. I-AA schools schedule I-A schools for money- not neccesarily because the think they have a GOOD shot at beating them.

"He is asking because ILSU layed a big fat egg against Western Illinois Saturday and now they are basically out of any shot at the playoffs."

From another post... well, NO CRAP. But then again, I've been thinking about that since I found out the rules for I-A, I-AA, and D-II as far as counting against or for a team's playoff shot. AND, 61-35.. nuff said about SIU. WE GOT THE BRAGGIN RIGHT FOR THAT GAME BOYYYYY.

Finally, as far as I-AA counting for I-A... the rule is one game every three years between I-A and I-AA schools count towards bowl games for I-A schools...

[FargoBison]

Finally, as far as I-AA counting for I-A... the rule is one game every three years between I-A and I-AA schools count towards bowl games for I-A schools...

That was the rule and now it has changed to allow IA's to have 12 games and 1 game against a qualifying IAA per year(that will count in bowl eligability).

[siugrad99]

Brag all you want, how much fun is it bragging with a 5-4 record ? Yep ILSU handed it to us and we thank you for the wake up call as since we've gone out and had 2 road wins and knocked off the # 1 team in the country. What have you done since... 31-17 I guess WIU has the bragging rights on that game BOYYY :rolleyes:

[lugo02]

That might be, but IA teams are allowed more scholarships, so they are distinctly different divisions. IA also gets a lot more TV time which translates to more money which also makes a difference, whether we like it or not.
IA is basically the minor league for players for the NFL. IAA is mostly amateur football for scholar-athletes.
The IAA rules for an at-large bid include a requirement for 7 DI wins. Whether a school decides to schedule a DIA for money is up to them. If they have the audacity to win such a game, it should count towards the requirement. This rule is to discourage teams from fattening up their win total against DII teams.

Sort of like the over-rated TxState team

[skinny_uncle]

That was the rule and now it has changed to allow IA's to have 12 games and 1 game against a qualifying IAA per year(that will count in bowl eligability).
Maybe IAA should follow suit and allow 12 games with one D2 game counted. The BCS only allowed that rule because there just weren't enough Sunbelt teams to go around.
Will games against non-schollie DIAA teams count? Will that be the next battleground? Stay tuned.
:eek:

[colgate13]

I think what is missing here is that I-A losses are not penalized by the playoffs. Here are the requirements:


The following principles shall apply when selecting at-large teams:
1. The committee shall select the best teams available on a national at-large basis to complete the bracket;
2. There is no limit to the number of teams the committee may select from one conference;
3. The won-lost record of a team will be scrutinized to determine a team’s strength of schedule; however, less than seven Division I wins may place a team in jeopardy of not being selected;
4. The committee may give more consideration to those teams that have played all Division I opponents; and
5. If the team of a committee member is under consideration, the member may not vote for the team being considered and will not be in the room when a vote is taken.

So you can lose to whoever you want. You just have to win seven Division I (I-A or I-AA) games. That's not so hard if you think you are one of the best 16 teams in the country.

What is wrong is to think that you only need 6 wins, because if you didn't lose to a I-A you'd have another I-AA win for a total of 7. Sorry. You don't get credit for fictional wins against fictional opponents.

Those that schedule I-As they will lose to and II's give themselves a smaller margin of error throughout the season.

[SoCon48]

Now I-A schools are allowed to count one I-AA game/year towards bowl eligibility. They aren't penalized

That's penalizing. Otherwise there would be no restriction. They recognize that we are separate, the same way the selection committee throws out Div II games.

[SoCon48]

I think what is missing here is that I-A losses are not penalized by the playoffs. Here are the requirements:



So you can lose to whoever you want. You just have to win seven Division I (I-A or I-AA) games. That's not so hard if you think you are one of the best 16 teams in the country.

.
Not so hard if you're in the right conference, not schedule I-A's , and choose your patsies carefully (and as many as you can find). Heck 10 wins in that scenario should be expected.

[colgate13]

Not so hard if you're in the right conference, not schedule I-A's , and choose your patsies carefully (and as many as you can find). Heck 10 wins in that scenario should be expected.

Don't expect any pity from me. You schedule I-A's for the money, so you whore out your program and hope for the best.

You schedule too many patsies and you find yourself needing to go 10-1.

Conference affiliation? When the vast majority of at-large bids go to four or five conferences, what's the big deal? If you can't win enough in conference, why do you assume you could win more in the playoffs against the best teams from other conferences?

[shakdaddy3]

I still have not seen one post that shows a valid reason why D-I A games count against D-IAA schools, but D-II doesn't count for them. So, I would agree that the comittee should look at those 7-4 teams with a D-IA loss as 7-3 teams, unles they change the rule concerning games between I-AA and D-II schools.

ISU - 61
SIU - 35
Still got 3 tough games to go SIU boyyyyy... just remember that you guys were selcted to get #1 or 2 in the conference [easily, might I add].. so you are underperorming if you don't get there... where as ILSU has overachieved AND there is still that remote chance for making the playoffs. If I-AA.org serves me right, the GPI is the best indicator for teams that will make the playoffs. With some luck, we could be there.. doubt it, but THERE'S STILL A CHANCE even if it is one and a million.

[colgate13]

I still have not seen one post that shows a valid reason why D-I A games count against D-IAA schools, but D-II doesn't count for them. So, I would agree that the comittee should look at those 7-4 teams with a D-IA loss as 7-3 teams, unles they change the rule concerning games between I-AA and D-II schools.


whoa whoa whoa

Tell me how a I-A loss counts against a team again?

What counts is how many I-AA wins you have and your overall schedule.

[AppGuy04]

whoa whoa whoa

Tell me how a I-A loss counts against a team again?

What counts is how many I-AA wins you have and your overall schedule.

well, in reality, they do

teams will drop in the polls after a I-AA loss, thus affecting the GPI, which the committee uses for selection purposes

[SoCon48]

Don't expect any pity from me. You schedule I-A's for the money, so you whore out your program and hope for the best.

You schedule too many patsies and you find yourself needing to go 10-1.

Conference affiliation? When the vast majority of at-large bids go to four or five conferences, what's the big deal? If you can't win enough in conference, why do you assume you could win more in the playoffs against the best teams from other conferences?

Whoring out??!!!
Umm. The LSU game came about because a I-AA (NW Louisiana) dropped us for them to play a I-A..late..during the summer. Nobody left in June to schedule with that date open.
I wouldn't call that "whoring out"!!! :D

ASU fans wouldn't show up for a schedule of patsies and our attendance would be down to the 2, 3,4,5K range like...well...you know.

Conference affiliation? Why do you assume teams which have played in pathetic conference and beaten no one but OOC patsies can beat teams from strong conferences in the play-offs???

[SoCon48]

well, in reality, they do

teams will drop in the polls after a I-AA loss, thus affecting the GPI, which the committee uses for selection purposes

Think you meant I-A. And you're right, it's obvious..

[SoCon48]

Don't expect any pity from me. You schedule I-A's for the money, so you whore out your program and hope for the best.

You schedule too many patsies and you find yourself needing to go 10-1.

Conference affiliation? When the vast majority of at-large bids go to four or five conferences, what's the big deal? If you can't win enough in conference, why do you assume you could win more in the playoffs against the best teams from other conferences?

BTW, We didn't schedule I-A Wake Forest for 21 years for the money. We scheduled them for the fan appeal, media exposure, players loved it, got to play against a better overall program, and it benefitted our in-state recruiting tremendously.

[AppGuy04]

Think you meant I-A. And you're right, it's obvious..

yeah thanks

[89Hen]

Don't expect any pity from me. You schedule I-A's for the money, so you whore out your program and hope for the best. You schedule too many patsies and you find yourself needing to go 10-1
:nod: The schedule that gives a team the best chance to make the playoffs is no big mystery. Name a team and I could come up with a schedule that gives them the best chance. Of course, they still need to win the games, but I never cease to be amazed at the fans of teams that complain with really weak schedules both in and out of conference or ones that are basically eliminated because of losses to teams that are too tough.

Bad schedules to make the playoffs....

Notheastern - A10 slate + Georgia Southern + Youngstown + Northwestern State... the A10 slate is usually good enough to go at 8-3, were they just going for difficulty factor?

The Citadel - SoCon slate + Florida State + Mississippi... 0-2 before you even start the season.

Gardner-Webb - Big South + Furman + Hampton + two NAIA's... horrible combination, as they pick one of the toughest SoCon teams, the toughtest MEAC team and then two cupcake NAIA's. WTF?

Good schedules to make the playoffs....

Delaware - A10 slate + three HOME OOC games to open the season... they just didn't have the manpower to get it done, but the perfect schedule.

Coastal - Big South + JMU (at home) + App State + SCState + DelSt... win three of those four and take care of business as expected in the BS and they're in, which they did.

Furman - SoCon + Hofstra + JSU + Samford + G-W... 10 of 11 games against teams from I-AA playoff conferences and all 11 against full schollie I-AA, but none too tough (OOC).

[colgate13]

Whoring out??!!!
Umm. The LSU game came about because a I-AA (NW Louisiana) dropped us for them to play a I-A..late..during the summer. Nobody left in June to schedule with that date open.
I wouldn't call that "whoring out"!!! :D

ASU fans wouldn't show up for a schedule of patsies and our attendance would be down to the 2, 3,4,5K range like...well...you know.

Conference affiliation? Why do you assume teams which have played in pathetic conference and beaten no one but OOC patsies can beat teams from strong conferences in the play-offs???

Plenty of I-AA's trade a loss for a payday. That's whoring out your football team. There are some exceptions to old rivalries, but for the most part, Maine goes to Nebraska to get pasted and to get a big paycheck. That's it.

As for your final question, the answer should be clear: Because in my experience, they have. Patriot League teams always get an asterik next to their schedule as 'weak'. Yet they still win first round games against teams from stronger conferences. Some years they win even more than that. I don't dismiss teams that have won on the field as easily as you may based on conference affiliation. I also don't quake at the almighty power of team so and so that finished 3rd in their conference. There are plenty of examples of those teams going home early too.

[colgate13]

ASU fans wouldn't show up for a schedule of patsies and our attendance would be down to the 2, 3,4,5K range like...well...you know.


and I wouldn't assume that. Delaware still sells out for Holy Cross and West Chester.

Montana for, what, Ft. Lewis?

Put the OOC games in the schedule the right way, and fans will come flocking to see a winning program; not a program that scheduled tough, but are 2-3...

Either way, what's the bigger goal of your program: attendance or playoffs? If it's attendance, then end of conversation I guess.

[89Hen]

Whoring out??!!!
Umm. The LSU game came about because a I-AA (NW Louisiana) dropped us for them to play a I-A..late..during the summer. Nobody left in June to schedule with that date open.
I wouldn't call that "whoring out"!!! :D

ASU fans wouldn't show up for a schedule of patsies and our attendance would be down to the 2, 3,4,5K range like...well...you know.
I don't pretend to speak for 13, but I think he meant the 'you' more in the general sense. But I seriously doubt that if LSU came asking that your AD spent another minute looking for a I-AA to fill that spot. As for patsies in place of I-A, they really don't go hand in hand. I'd rather have one more home date than a I-A game with no chance of winning. ASU with over 15,000 guaranteed has to be attractive for one of the smaller I-AA programs even to do a one time road game for them.

[SoCon48]

and I wouldn't assume that. Delaware still sells out for Holy Cross and West Chester.

Montana for, what, Ft. Lewis?

Put the OOC games in the schedule the right way, and fans will come flocking to see a winning program; not a program that scheduled tough, but are 2-3...

Either way, what's the bigger goal of your program: attendance or playoffs? If it's attendance, then end of conversation I guess.

Both. Unfortunately, my poor little mountain school has to have attendance to make the bucks it takes to support the program, scholarships, etc.
Being in the back woods, we have to have decent opponent to draw fans from off the mountain. They aren't gonna show up for Mars Hill. Can't blame them at all. Instead, they'll go the few miles it takes to see UNC, Wake, Clemson, USC, Va Tech, etc
We do have a winning program (like one 5-6 season in 20 years) and our fans come to see it, but not to see us trounce some pathetic dink. And I hope they never have to.
And Holy Cross. I'm sure our fans would love to see Holy Cross on the schedule.

[SoCon48]

I don't pretend to speak for 13, but I think he meant the 'you' more in the general sense. But I seriously doubt that if LSU came asking that your AD spent another minute looking for a I-AA to fill that spot. As for patsies in place of I-A, they really don't go hand in hand. I'd rather have one more home date than a I-A game with no chance of winning. ASU with over 15,000 guaranteed has to be attractive for one of the smaller I-AA programs even to do a one time road game for them.

LSU could ask all they wanted. There was no one else left for early November in June. Home or away. So it was schedule any I-A we could find or end up like WCU with 9 games after they were shafted by Liberty late.

And we do schedule other I-AA's..but not on a home only basis. We had a home and away with NW State..but they reniged on the Boone game. We play EKU home and away.
Morehead State came to Boone once. But half of a 16K gate isn't much to write home about and does precious little to build enthusiasm for the rest of the season.

[SoCon48]

Plenty of I-AA's trade a loss for a payday. That's whoring out your football team. There are some exceptions to old rivalries, but for the most part, Maine goes to Nebraska to get pasted and to get a big paycheck. That's it.

As for your final question, the answer should be clear: Because in my experience, they have. Patriot League teams always get an asterik next to their schedule as 'weak'. Yet they still win first round games against teams from stronger conferences. Some years they win even more than that. I don't dismiss teams that have won on the field as easily as you may based on conference affiliation. I also don't quake at the almighty power of team so and so that finished 3rd in their conference. There are plenty of examples of those teams going home early too.

You're right. And there are examples of a third place SoCon team with 3 losses playing 3 games on the road and losing at #1 Montana by 3 in OT in the 3rd round!

Good thing that wasn't like in '03 when only one SoCon team went.

[89Hen]

Morehead State came to Boone once. But half of a 16K gate isn't much to write home about and does precious little to build enthusiasm for the rest of the season.
I'm confused as to your stance on this. Are you saying the money you make on a I-A road game is more important than having 16,000 of your fans show up for a home date in Kidd-Brewer to party over a win and have a better chance at making the playoffs and perhaps hosting a game at KB? :confused:

[JALMOND]

Plenty of I-AA's trade a loss for a payday. That's whoring out your football team. There are some exceptions to old rivalries, but for the most part, Maine goes to Nebraska to get pasted and to get a big paycheck. That's it.

As for your final question, the answer should be clear: Because in my experience, they have. Patriot League teams always get an asterik next to their schedule as 'weak'. Yet they still win first round games against teams from stronger conferences. Some years they win even more than that. I don't dismiss teams that have won on the field as easily as you may based on conference affiliation. I also don't quake at the almighty power of team so and so that finished 3rd in their conference. There are plenty of examples of those teams going home early too.

Whoa, 13. Portland State scheduled 2 I-A schools this year and both times, I doubt you could say our football team was "whored out". This year, the Big Sky wanted to try to increase their strength as a conference so all schools were asked to play one I-A team. We scheduled Boise State, set in stone. Our administration feels that it is in the best interest of the school to play Oregon and Oregon State whenever possible so we have an oral agreement with both schools to play them when the schedules dictate. Oregon State was to open their season (and their new stadium) with Wisconsin, and we had scheduled DII Western Washington. Wisconsin backed out late, so Oregon State, pursuant to our agreement, contacted us. The Beavers bought out Western Washington off of our schedule and put us on. The Boise State game was per our conference and the Oregon State game fell into our laps.

I think I see your point, tho, with the I-AA teams going halfway across the country to play a I-A team. A little ridiculous, yes...

[SoCon48]

I'm confused as to your stance on this. Are you saying the money you make on a I-A road game is more important than having 16,000 of your fans show up for a home date in Kidd-Brewer to party over a win and have a better chance at making the playoffs and perhaps hosting a game at KB? :confused:

$450,000 vs. LSU compared to maybe $125,000 after a split with a Morehead State. Maybe in Delaware, they party after a Morehead game, but not much down here. Even the Libertys of the world expect a home and home deal. The last two Liberty game in Boone drew whopping 6.5K and 10.3K crowds (and they did even worse with their home gig). West Va Tech brought in 5.3K fans. Figure the split on that one.

Not being the flagship school in NC and with dozens of college programs to compete with for ticket dollars, we actually have to offer a good entertainment value to draw the fans. :deadhorse
ASU fans aren't as enthusiastic as they maybe should be about play-off games over the Thanksgiving holidays with a 5 or 6 day notice. At least not enough to endure a schedule of Moreheads, Mars Hill, Libertys, and WV Techs for the honor. ASU fans often raise a stink when non-appealing opponents show up in their season-ticket packet. It's also much harder to sell the program to recruits.
The fans in the Carolinas have too many choices of SEC, ACC and NFL games to spend their dollars and time on watching SoCon schools devour less than stellar relatively un-known opponents.
What usually happens with the 1st round games for App is we have the honor of hosting the first round game (if we're lucky) which no one seems to draw good crowds for and then have to go on the road for the rounds that generate good crowds most places.
Either way the play-offs generate NO money for the overall budget. ASU and most SoCon schools have no pool of medical and law alumni to throw money at the programs. Something has to pay the bills.
Whatever works for Delaware and its fans may not work for ASU. And as has been said many times before, A heavyweight like LSU was a long way from being what we planned.
But to answer your question. Playing #7 LSU in the Bayou over playing a Monmouth in Boone.....a no-brainer. Playing Delaware in Boone would be my choice.

[SoCon48]

Plenty of I-AA's trade a loss for a payday. That's whoring out your football team. There are some exceptions to old rivalries, but for the most part, Maine goes to Nebraska to get pasted and to get a big paycheck. That's it.

As for your final question, the answer should be clear: Because in my experience, they have. Patriot League teams always get an asterik next to their schedule as 'weak'. Yet they still win first round games against teams from stronger conferences. Some years they win even more than that. I don't dismiss teams that have won on the field as easily as you may based on conference affiliation. I also don't quake at the almighty power of team so and so that finished 3rd in their conference. There are plenty of examples of those teams going home early too.

Maine got pasted by Nebraska??? That's news to me. Their 25-7 loss to Nebraska was much better than their conference losses of 38-2, 44-0, 35-14!!
And their 7-6 loss to SEC's Mississippi State certainly wasn't a "pasting." Again much better than many of their conf games and far more $$.
Don't think Maine is a very good example of "whoring out."

Colgate can evidently survive on 4-5K gates and make it up in big donations. Many of the rest of us can not.
Too, the fans would call us worse than whores if we subjected them to a schedule of no-names.

[colgate13]

Whoring out was meant to mean trading your playoff chances/win loss record for money. Did Maine play well? Of course. But they scheduled that game for money purposes, not win loss or playoff purposes. That's putting the dollar ahead of a teams chances for success IMO.

Listen, I understand different schools have different pressures. That's fine. But when schools make the choice to have oral agreements with so and so or to most likely start the season 0-1 or 0-2, I don't have any pity for them. That's how your choosing to run your athletic department. Fine. But you're handicapping your shot at a National Championship and I don't give me slack for 'what-ifs' or close losses. It's just my opinion, that's all.

[89Hen]

Maybe in Delaware, they party after a Morehead game, but not much down here. Even the Libertys of the world expect a home and home deal. The last two Liberty game in Boone drew whopping 6.5K and 10.3K crowds (and they did even worse with their home gig). West Va Tech brought in 5.3K fans. Figure the split on that one.

Not being the flagship school in NC and with dozens of college programs to compete with for ticket dollars, we actually have to offer a good entertainment value to draw the fans.
Those are some sad figures and a very sad outlook for your program IMO. But I'm not buying that people are choosing to go to a different game over a AppSt game. You're basically trying to tell me that on a day when you draw 20,000 fans, over half are actually UNC, State, Wake or Duke fans who just decided to take in an AppSt game because they have a good opponent. :confused: Your fans should party before, during and after every single home game no matter the opponent.

I find it odd that of all the groups of fans in I-AA (not saying you in particular), AppSt fans are the most vocal about moving to I-A. Drawing 6,500 and 5,300 and talking about moving to I-A? :cool:

[shakdaddy3]

Whoring out was meant to mean trading your playoff chances/win loss record for money. Did Maine play well? Of course. But they scheduled that game for money purposes, not win loss or playoff purposes. That's putting the dollar ahead of a teams chances for success IMO.

Listen, I understand different schools have different pressures. That's fine. But when schools make the choice to have oral agreements with so and so or to most likely start the season 0-1 or 0-2, I don't have any pity for them. That's how your choosing to run your athletic department. Fine. But you're handicapping your shot at a National Championship and I don't give me slack for 'what-ifs' or close losses. It's just my opinion, that's all.

But still... the question is not whether or not you have pity for them, because in this instance I agree that it is the teams fault for scheduling an almost guaranteed 0-1 start. What I've wanted to know is why D-IA counts and D-II does not when it comes to playoff time and looking at schedules. If we are going to count one, then we need to count the other because all three divisions [I-A, I-AA, AND II that is] are all [basically] different divison of football.

[SoCon48]

Those are some sad figures and a very sad outlook for your program IMO. But I'm not buying that people are choosing to go to a different game over a AppSt game. You're basically trying to tell me that on a day when you draw 20,000 fans, over half are actually UNC, State, Wake or Duke fans who just decided to take in an AppSt game because they have a good opponent. :confused: Your fans should party before, during and after every single home game no matter the opponent.

I find it odd that of all the groups of fans in I-AA (not saying you in particular), AppSt fans are the most vocal about moving to I-A. Drawing 6,500 and 5,300 and talking about moving to I-A? :cool:

Just saying fans in this state have much better things to do than watch f'n Liberty. You notice Liberty is no longer on our schedule??????

I think ASU's attendance this year quite well speaks for itself. Drawing over 22K for each home game in the backwoods of NC and not having the advantage of being the flagship university in our state.
I think it's sad that a backwoods former teachers' college in NC with ACC and SEC programs all around competes quite well in attendance with the flagship program in the state of Delaware (which basically has like only Delaware State to compete against). :rolleyes:
And who the Hl said half of ASU's attendance is made up of NC State, UNC, etc fans. But to get fans who are not alumni, we have to compete with those large programs who are playing each other, as well as Miami, Boston College, Virginia Tech, etc...even if we did have the luxury of being located in metropolitan area. :deadhorse

[rokamortis]

But still... the question is not whether or not you have pity for them, because in this instance I agree that it is the teams fault for scheduling an almost guaranteed 0-1 start. What I've wanted to know is why D-IA counts and D-II does not when it comes to playoff time and looking at schedules. If we are going to count one, then we need to count the other because all three divisions [I-A, I-AA, AND II that is] are all [basically] different divison of football.

A DII win won't help as you are percieved to be better - but if you lose then it will count against you. The I-A loss won't help because they are perceived as better so losing is expected but if you win then it will help you. In I-A, if they lose to a I-AA it counts against them in BCS standings and if they win then it counts as a W but nothing more.

[rokamortis]

Just saying fans in this state have much better things to do than watch f'n Liberty. You notice Liberty is no longer on our schedule??????

I think ASU's attendance this year quite well speaks for itself. Drawing over 22K for each home game in the backwoods of NC and not having the advantage of being the flagship university in our state.
I think it's sad that a backwoods former teachers' college in NC with ACC and SEC programs all around competes quite well in attendance with the flagship program in the state of Delaware (which basically has like only Delaware State to compete against). :rolleyes:
And who the Hl said half of ASU's attendance is made up of NC State, UNC, etc fans. But to get fans who are not alumni, we have to compete with those large programs who are playing each other, as well as Miami, Boston College, Virginia Tech, etc...even if we did have the luxury of being located in metropolitan area. :deadhorse

Only having 4 home games doesn't hurt your per game average either as people have less of a choice of when to go.

[SoCon48]

Whoring out was meant to mean trading your playoff chances/win loss record for money. Did Maine play well? Of course. But they scheduled that game for money purposes, not win loss or playoff purposes. That's putting the dollar ahead of a teams chances for success IMO.

Listen, I understand different schools have different pressures. That's fine. But when schools make the choice to have oral agreements with so and so or to most likely start the season 0-1 or 0-2, I don't have any pity for them. That's how your choosing to run your athletic department. Fine. But you're handicapping your shot at a National Championship and I don't give me slack for 'what-ifs' or close losses. It's just my opinion, that's all.

Some teams prostitute themselves for the play-offs by playing beneath their level (and often get their butts handed to them in the first round) . Others like to give their fans/players something to be proud of by playing tough I-AA and I-A competition...and competing quite well. Maine was far from being pasted! My own alma mater has been waxed far worse several times within our own conference than by any I-A program we whored ourselves to.
Our few years of not making the play-offs was due a hell of a lot more to losing to a Furman, GSU, WCU within our conference than any I-A money game.
But forgive me (and often the selection committee) for not being impressed by schools racking up 9 wins in an embarrassingly anemic conference and vs pathetic OOC's.
Whatever turns your fans on.

[89Hen]

Just saying fans in this state have much better things to do than watch f'n Liberty. You notice Liberty is no longer on our schedule?????? I think ASU's attendance this year quite well speaks for itself. Drawing over 22K for each home game in the backwoods of NC and not having the advantage of being the flagship university in our state.
I think it's sad that a backwoods former teachers' college in NC with ACC and SEC programs all around competes quite well in attendance with the flagship program in the state of Delaware (which basically has like only Delaware State to compete against). :rolleyes:
And who the Hl said half of ASU's attendance is made up of NC State, UNC, etc fans. But to get fans who are not alumni, we have to compete with those large programs who are playing each other, as well as Miami, Boston College, Virginia Tech, etc...even if we did have the luxury of being located in metropolitan area.
Calm down I-AA. If you want to get in a pissing match, bring it on, you will lose, but that's not the intent here.

In one breath you tell us how pitiful ASU's attendance is for less than superior opponents and in the next breath you say the ASU is going toe to toe with the UD's and Montana's of the world in attendance. You can't have it both ways. UD draws for West Chester, Montana draws for Ft. Lewis. AppSt can't even draw for a scholarship I-AA program in Liberty.

YOU made it abundently clear that given the choice of going to K-B to watch ASU play a less than outstanding opponent or going to one of the many flagship schools in I-A, people in North Carolina would choose the latter. So one must assume that these people are not AppSt fans. When UD is playing West Chester, Hen fans that are only 1:45 from the University of Maryland don't suddenly pack up the SUV and head to College Park for the day. You're baiscally saying that if AppSt brought in Liberty, we'd see a bunch of black and gold t-shirts filling Carter Finley or Kenan instead of K-B. :cool:

[89Hen]

But forgive me (and often the selection committee) for not being impressed by schools racking up 9 wins in an embarrassingly anemic conference and vs pathetic OOC's.
Whatever turns your fans on.
That's not the discussion here 05. Your stance seems to be more geared toward revenue and not toward playoffs. As a I-AA fan, I can tell you that the NUMBER ONE goal for any team should be the playoffs and a National Championship. We all know the formula that gets you in the playoffs. To thumb your nose at that formula and take a revenue game and roll the dice on winning enough other games is risky and foolhearty at best IMO.

You seem to be so down on a game that might only draw 10,000 fans to K-B, but let me ask you, how many ASU fans are making the trek to Baton Rouge this week?

[SoCon48]

Only having 4 home games doesn't hurt your per game average either as people have less of a choice of when to go.

Sure that could be argued, but it looks like that would hold true for the years we had 5 vs 6, 6 vs 7, etc. But it doesn't. In fact the opposite was true at times. We went from 5 home games to 7 on an occasion and the average went up by 3,500.
I'd say that pretty much shoots that theory all to hell.

We went from 6 to 7 in 00-01 and our average went down a "whopping" 400. (which was less variance than MANY years the # of home games stayed the same).

But, if it makes people feel better, subtract 400 from our 22K+ average this year.

[89Hen]

But, if it makes people feel better, subtract 400 from our 22K+ average this year.
You mean, unless you added somebody that wasn't a top team in I-AA. :p

[AppGuy04]

Aren't these issues pretty much the same, winning = money, enough said

[89Hen]

Aren't these issues pretty much the same, winning = money, enough said
Not always the case.

[SoCon48]

That's not the discussion here 05. Your stance seems to be more geared toward revenue and not toward playoffs. As a I-AA fan, I can tell you that the NUMBER ONE goal for any team should be the playoffs and a National Championship. We all know the formula that gets you in the playoffs. To thumb your nose at that formula and take a revenue game and roll the dice on winning enough other games is risky and foolhearty at best IMO.

You seem to be so down on a game that might only draw 10,000 fans to K-B, but let me ask you, how many ASU fans are making the trek to Baton Rouge this week?

Umm Quite a few booked the charters months ago, but many are now not going to be able to attend due to the motel reservations being cancelled due to the Hurricane, FEMA, etc. Many on the message boards have said they will have to sleep in their cars. But I'd say we'll have FAR more than we had going to Boise State, Troy State, NW State (Louisiana), WKU, EKU New Hampshire etc for play-off games.

Sure revenue means something. It pays the coaches, provides scholarships, supports other sports, etc. Want to compare the $450,000 check for playing in Baton Rouge, Louisiana to the $0 check we got for playing NW State in Nachidotches, Louisiana on Thanksgiving???

You keep forgetting, too, :bang: that LSU was scheduled in June after a I-AA who was supposed to make their contracted visit to Boone..cancelled!
We would much rather had the home game that was cancelled than going up against LSU that their own SEC teams fear.

You want to ask how many ASU fans attended the Auburn. Wake Forest, NCSU, Clemson, U South Carolina, Virginia Tech games over the years??? :bang:
Hell, even the Kansas game had a decent representation.

[89Hen]

I'd say we'll have FAR more than we had going to Boise State, Troy State, NW State (Louisiana), WKU, EKU New Hampshire etc for play-off games.

Sure revenue means something. It pays the coaches, provides scholarships, supports other sports, etc. Want to compare the $450,000 check for playing in Baton Rouge, Louisiana to the $0 check we got for playing NW State in Nachidotches, Louisiana on Thanksgiving???
We can certainly end our discussion then. I care more about playoffs and it's become blatantly obvious you care more about revenue. We will have to agree to disagree on our priorities for our schools.

[shakdaddy3]

A DII win won't help as you are percieved to be better - but if you lose then it will count against you. The I-A loss won't help because they are perceived as better so losing is expected but if you win then it will help you. In I-A, if they lose to a I-AA it counts against them in BCS standings and if they win then it counts as a W but nothing more.

We mentioned in here earlier that a I-AA game does count towards a teams BCS standings... or so I thought.

[SoCon48]

You mean, unless you added somebody that wasn't a top team in I-AA. :p

We've played top teams from I-AA (like EKU, Troy State, JMU) in Boone. They're included in those years that were compared.


Oh? Please advise us which top team in I-AA was available in June and wanted a road game to Boone for Nov 5??

We make no apologies for our attendance this year and the mathematical bull**** of 4 games vs 5, 6, 7 holds no water based on our past comparisons.
Having a winning season does.
We also make no apologies for playing the #7 team in the country either, no matter the outcome.

[SoCon48]

We mentioned in here earlier that a I-AA game does count towards a teams BCS standings... or so I thought.

And you are correct. In fact, according to the AD at LSU, the ASU game will not even affect their chances as much as the I-A North Texas State game last week. Especially since they are likely to have won both.

[89Hen]

Please advise us which top team in I-AA was available in June and wanted a road game to Boone for Nov 5??
Kinda tough to do on November 3rd.

[rokamortis]

We mentioned in here earlier that a I-AA game does count towards a teams BCS standings... or so I thought.

One I-AA game will count toward bowl eligibility - nothing more. A win will not help their BCS standing or rank - it could also cost them a trip to the championship game.

[SoCon48]

Kinda tough to do on November 3rd.

It was tough in June. The AD examined EVERY I-AA team's schedule for open dates on Nov 5. What part of NONE do you not understand???

Since I-A Kansas had already been scheduled, any I-A was a last resort.

But either our AD was lying or you know better than the AD. :rolleyes:
Yeah, right.

[AppGuy04]

Not always the case.

SAD!

[SoCon48]

One I-AA game will count toward bowl eligibility - nothing more. A win will not help their BCS standing or rank - it could also cost them a trip to the championship game.
Like I posted, because of ASU's record, etc. The AD at LSU said the ASU game will not hurt their chances at either. He was a little concerned about the I-A North Texas game's affect..even though they smashed em. ANY loss would affect a the shot at the championship game, though.
I would imagine he knows what he is talking about.

[SoCon48]

SAD!
Consistent winning programs with slack budgets are few and far between for sure.

[89Hen]

The AD examined EVERY I-AA team's schedule for open dates on Nov 5. What part of NONE do you not understand??? Since I-A Kansas had already been scheduled, any I-A was a last resort. But either our AD was lying or you know better than the AD.
You're way off the deep end on this discussion. This single game against LSU is not the core of this discussion. You've made no attempt to disguise your preference of I-A money games over playoffs.

[89Hen]

SAD!
Sad what? That winning programs aren't always money makers or that some programs can make money without winning?

[colgate13]

We can certainly end our discussion then. I care more about playoffs and it's become blatantly obvious you care more about revenue. We will have to agree to disagree on our priorities for our schools.

That's pretty much what I decided too.

Whatever floats a schools boat.

[AppGuy04]

Sad what? That winning programs aren't always money makers or that some programs can make money without winning?

that winning programs can't make money

[SoCon48]

You're way off the deep end on this discussion. This single game against LSU is not the core of this discussion. You've made no attempt to disguise your preference of I-A money games over playoffs.

Deep end...BULL****! Unless responding to your "Hard to do on Nov 3" quip pertaining to the lack of a I-AA opponent scheduled for Nov 5 and why we ended up with a beast of a I-A is off the deep end..

Not trying to disguise anything!!! I do prefer a "reasonable" I-A (not the #7 BCS team) to playing no name patsies just for the sake of phenagling into the play-offs.

I just don't think our lady AD was lying.
I certainly wasn't lying either or disguising anything when I said I would prefer that the original NW State for Boone had not been cancelled by NWS!!!
Have no qualms at all about the other I-A game we scheduled.

At any rate we do both. We have at least one good OOC I-AA EVERY year as well as trying to book a I-A.

[SoCon48]

That's pretty much what I decided too.

Whatever floats a schools boat.

EXACTLY!

.

[SoCon48]

We can certainly end our discussion then. I care more about playoffs and it's become blatantly obvious you care more about revenue. We will have to agree to disagree on our priorities for our schools.

That's putting words..the wrong words..in my mouth.

If you look at ASU's schedule over the past 20 years, you'll no doubt notice we NORMALLY schedule TEN OOC and conf I-AA's and ONE I-A.

If you interpret that to be caring more about revenue than the play-offs...then I'd be baffled to see how you figure that.

The I-A that appeared by far the most on our schedule was Wake Forest. Not a big money or "revenue" game by any stretch of the imagination. Evidently not an automatic loss.

[grizband]

You're right. And there are examples of a third place SoCon team with 3 losses playing 3 games on the road and losing at #1 Montana by 3 in OT in the 3rd round!

Good thing that wasn't like in '03 when only one SoCon team went.
App St? Cuz if thats what you were thinking, damn was that a great game.

[SoCon48]

App St? Cuz if thats what you were thinking, damn was that a great game.
It certainly was. Still can't figure how we got that far that year, when we couldn't make it with what many thought were better App teams in prior years. Maybe luck or determination?

[colgate13]

EXACTLY!

.

Of course... just don't cry when your boat floats in something that heads in the opposite direction of the I-AA playoffs.;)

[AppGuy04]

Of course... just don't cry when your boat floats in something that heads in the opposite direction of the I-AA playoffs.;)

that boat will be floating in the right direction in 3 weeks

[SoCon48]

Of course... just don't cry when your boat floats in something that heads in the opposite direction of the I-AA playoffs.;)

That could happen. That happened the past 3 years, but we can't blame it on any "over our head I-A whored out money game." Rather it was because we let Chattanooga, GSU, WCU, NorthWestern State, EKU, Wofford, The Citadel, etc beat us. In other words, we simply didn't deserve to go. Period.

We were joined by dozens of less ambitious schedulers in the I-AA ranks sitting at home at the same time.

[JohnStOnge]

I continue to think each opponent should be taken individually without any rules about automatically assuming anything because of the Division they're in. As has been proven by head to head competition, some top D-II teams are equivalent in caliber to playoff caliber I-AAs and some D-IAs are below that. It's stupid to have the implied assumption that Prairiie View is a tougher opponent than Valdosta State or that Florida International is a tougher opponent than Montana.

In my book, all other things being equal, a team that beats a DII team like Valdosta State ought to get the nod over a team that beat a I-AA like Prairieview. Same with the Montana/Florida International analogy. It should based on which is the tougher opponent rather than what Division each opponent is in.

Also, no D-IAA team has ever beaten a top 25 I-A team. When a I-AA team loses to an LSU or a Virginia Tech there really OUGHT to be some consideration of who that loss came against...especially if they play a decently competetive game like Western Illinois did against LSU in 2003. A 35-7 loss to the I-A national champion is a more impressive performance than a 40-0 win over some weak I-AA team.

[SoCon48]

When a I-AA team loses to an LSU or a Virginia Tech there really OUGHT to be some consideration of who that loss came against...especially if they play a decently competetive game like Western Illinois did against LSU in 2003. A 35-7 loss to the I-A national champion is a more impressive performance than a 40-0 win over some weak I-AA team.

Well I guess that makes a grand total of two of us who think in those terms.

[89Hen]

That's putting words..the wrong words..in my mouth.

If you look at ASU's schedule over the past 20 years, you'll no doubt notice we NORMALLY schedule TEN OOC and conf I-AA's and ONE I-A.

If you interpret that to be caring more about revenue than the play-offs...then I'd be baffled to see how you figure that.
I was talking about YOU personally...

"I'd say we'll have FAR more than we had going to Boise State, Troy State, NW State (Louisiana), WKU, EKU New Hampshire etc for play-off games.

Sure revenue means something. It pays the coaches, provides scholarships, supports other sports, etc. Want to compare the $450,000 check for playing in Baton Rouge, Louisiana to the $0 check we got for playing NW State in Nachidotches, Louisiana on Thanksgiving???"

I would never make a comment like that. I'd say, want to compare having a shot at a National Championship versus playing for a paycheck. You can have both, but I think the point you're missing that 13 and I have been trying to make is that we're tired of hearing fans wanting it both ways. I'm not saying you've ever complained about it, but this entire discussion was about teams playing for pay versus creating a schedule that gives them the best shot at making the playoffs. IMO you have been VERY clear, stated several different ways, that you'd rather have a I-A payday game versus a home game over a lesser I-AA opponent. Am I wrong?

[89Hen]

A 35-7 loss to the I-A national champion is a more impressive performance than a 40-0 win over some weak I-AA team.
Wow, I can't agree with that AT ALL. What does a 35-7 loss to anyone prove? I don't care if it were against the New England Patriots. Perhaps that I-A NC was working on some new plays, resting some banged up players, giving their backups some work.... there is no way you could ever convince me that a 35-7 payday loss should ever be considered more impressive than any win.

[OL FU]

Wow, I can't agree with that AT ALL. What does a 35-7 loss to anyone prove? I don't care if it were against the New England Patriots. Perhaps that I-A NC was working on some new plays, resting some banged up players, giving their backups some work.... there is no way you could ever convince me that a 35-7 payday loss should ever be considered more impressive than any win.

I agree. Furman has played its share of games it has no practical chance at winning. I don't criticize a school for playing those games. But they have to be looked at for what they are. It is real simple in my opinion. If you want to schedule an unwinnable I-A, it is still a loss.

[SoCon48]

I was talking about YOU personally...

"I'd say we'll have FAR more than we had going to Boise State, Troy State, NW State (Louisiana), WKU, EKU New Hampshire etc for play-off games.

Sure revenue means something. It pays the coaches, provides scholarships, supports other sports, etc. Want to compare the $450,000 check for playing in Baton Rouge, Louisiana to the $0 check we got for playing NW State in Nachidotches, Louisiana on Thanksgiving???"

I would never make a comment like that. I'd say, want to compare having a shot at a National Championship versus playing for a paycheck. You can have both, but I think the point you're missing that 13 and I have been trying to make is that we're tired of hearing fans wanting it both ways. I'm not saying you've ever complained about it, but this entire discussion was about teams playing for pay versus creating a schedule that gives them the best shot at making the playoffs. IMO you have been VERY clear, stated several different ways, that you'd rather have a I-A payday game versus a home game over a lesser I-AA opponent. Am I wrong?
__________________________________________________ _____________

Yes you're wrong about MY statements. In a TYPICAL year, we play TEN I-AA's and ONE I-A. That should speak for itself. Sure I wholehardedly admit to liking ONE REASONABLE I-A game on the schedule. Which is what this year would have been with 10 I-AA's and Kansas on the schedule until I-AA NW State dropped US!!

This was not a tpical year as it played out in JUNE and with an interim lady AD having to find an opponent or ending up like WCU with 9 opponents (10 until Katrina wiped out the Nichols game).
You want to pick on the 2005 schedule and imply our AD lied or didn't try to find a I-AA replacement. Then 2000 deserves equal consideration:

*****************************
1 I-A (which we won) *
10 I-AA's *
3 I-AA's in the play-offs *
*
13 I-AA's 1 I-A Total *
******************************
The I-A game affected us how? We WON it, and lost 3 of our I-AA's. We were sent on the road for THREE consecutive play-off games.

2005 is just as much of an aberration as 2000 can be accused of being.
So how with schedules routinely ending up a 10, 11, 12, and even 13 to 1 ratios can our program be legitimately accused of PREFERRING I-A games to I-AA's???

Only in 2 or 3 or so years out of the last 30 have we ended up with more than I-A on the schedule. We always had a full complement of conference games and schedule 2 or 3 OOC I-AA's and even a D-2 occasionally.

How that translates into a PREFERENCE for I-A's, I haven't the foggiest idea.
And yes, our program often needs the revenue. Some recruits like them, players and fans do also.

[SoCon48]

I agree. Furman has played its share of games it has no practical chance at winning. I don't criticize a school for playing those games. But they have to be looked at for what they are. It is real simple in my opinion. If you want to schedule an unwinnable I-A, it is still a loss.


ASU has played VERY few I-A games that we had NO chance of winning. To boot, we ROUTINELY ended up losing worse to a I-AA on our schedule than the I-A.
The LSU game is one of the few that most would consider un-winnable. Blame it happening on NW State. Liberty did the same to WCU. WCU ended up with 9 games (10 prior to Katrina).

21 games vs Wake Forest were no where near "un-winnable." Auburn was VERY winnable until the last minute.

[89Hen]

Yes you're wrong about MY statements. In a TYPICAL year, we play TEN I-AA's and ONE I-A. That should speak for itself. Sure I wholehardedly admit to liking ONE REASONABLE I-A game on the schedule. Which is what this year would have been with 10 I-AA's and Kansas on the schedule until I-AA NW State dropped US!!
:confused: You said you'd prefer a game in Baton Rouge to one on Thanksgiving weekend.

[OL FU]

ASU has played VERY few I-A games that we had NO chance of winning. To boot, we ROUTINELY ended up losing worse to a I-AA on our schedule than the I-A.
The LSU game is one of the few that most would consider un-winnable. Blame it happening on NW State. Liberty did the same to WCU. WCU ended up with 9 games (10 prior to Katrina).

21 games vs Wake Forest were no where near "un-winnable." Auburn was VERY winnable until the last minute.

I understand that. Furman is scheduled to pay Va Tech in the future. That would not have been my choice, but I ain't the one with choices.

[SoCon48]

:confused: You said you'd prefer a game in Baton Rouge to one on Thanksgiving weekend.


Thanks for taking that out of context. And I think that was back when I was actually planning to go.

Making the best out of a screw job on our schedule:

Our program WILL benefit greatly from the $450,000 paycheck, national exposure, recruiting, etc more than the first round game on Thanksgiving week-end while the students are gone. Economically, it's 450,000 to 0.

IMOP, the play-off game should NOT fall on the Thanksgiving break, especially in light of the fact that across the country the games draw basically 4-7,000 fans and individually wind up with mediocre at best coverage in the media. Players are giving up the biggest family day of the year to prepare for that event.
Exposure wise, it's not even close.

The opportunity to play in one of college football's greatest venues and the atmosphere created by the homecoming crowd of 92,000 is something they'll remember for a lifetime.
The play-offs as a whole and a championship run are memorable, too, but the first round vs playing in the Bayou...a no brainer.

The NCAA has dropped the ball big time on making the play-offs financially wise for the participants and have done precious little if any to increase exposure. But as of yet they haven't taken the opportunity away for some of us to get at least one day's taste of life in college football's higher level.

There has to be some reason so many of our I-AA brethren totally pass up the play-offs.

But would I like for my alma-mater to win a NC? Absolutely.

I just never got much adrenalin going when we had to go to Boise State, New Hampshire, Natchidoches, etc for play-off games. And I apologize.

Let's see. Nicholls State or LSU? Umm. I'll get back to you on that.

[SoCon48]

I understand that. Furman is scheduled to pay Va Tech in the future. That would not have been my choice, but I ain't the one with choices.

We are, too.
I'd much prefer one game a year with Wake, Clemson, or NCSU. Or. or, one shot at UNC in a bad year!!!! Yeah baby!!

Wake was very realistic for us.

[AppGuy04]

We are, too.
I'd much prefer one game a year with Wake, Clemson, or NCSU. Or. or, one shot at UNC in a bad year!!!! Yeah baby!!

Wake was very realistic for us.

we could beat Duke or WF

[SoCon48]

we could beat Duke or WF

Obviously.
We beat Wake 7 1/2 times.

[89Hen]

Thanks for taking that out of context.... Our program WILL benefit greatly from the $450,000 paycheck, national exposure, recruiting, etc more than the first round game on Thanksgiving week-end while the students are gone. Economically, it's 450,000 to 0.
How is it out of context, you just said it again!


The play-offs as a whole and a championship run are memorable, too, but the first round vs playing in the Bayou...a no brainer. ... But would I like for my alma-mater to win a NC? Absolutely.

I just never got much adrenalin going when we had to go to Boise State, New Hampshire, Natchidoches, etc for play-off games. And I apologize.

Let's see. Nicholls State or LSU? Umm. I'll get back to you on that.

:confused:You can't win a NC if you don't play a first round game. Given the choice of a first round game in Bumbleweed, USA or a game at the most glorious of I-A stadiums for $500,000... I choose the playoffs, do you?

[89Hen]

Let me try this another way. Here's how I'd rank the following....

1. National Championship
2. Making the playoffs
3. Conference championship
4. Home games no matter the opponent
5. Road games against good I-AA OOC
6. Potentially winnable games against I-A's
7. Games against a big I-A that is local
8. Games against a big I-A even if its not winnable

How would you rank them?

BTW, as a side note, ASU has been 7-4 with a I-A loss three times since 1996.

[SoCon48]

Let me try this another way. Here's how I'd rank the following....

BTW, as a side note, ASU has been 7-4 with a I-A loss three times since 1996.

Don't know why you chose that time period or those records, but yes, I'm quite aware.. Thank you for helping make my point. During your chosen 3 years, that's THREE I-A losses and NINE I-AA losses. So which do you think hurt us most? The 3 or the 9? Doesn't even appear equal.

'96 The 6 pt I-A loss to Wake or the 21 pt, 6 pt and 14 pt losses to I-AA's?
'97 The 11 pt loss to Clemson or the 24 pt one to ETSU?
'03 The 23 pt loss to Hawaii or the 28 pt loss to EKU + 3 pt loss to Citadel (you know the one A-10 fans point out as being a bottom feeder) + the 10 pt loss to Woffie?

Notice each year we had at least ONE worse loss to I-AA's than our I-A opponent. In fact, much worse in '96, '97.

As another anti I-A scheduler pointed out, it's obvious from our record, there's no guarantee that had we scheduled all I-AA's that our record would have been better. Can't say I agree or disagree, but he sure made a good point.

To top it off, we managed to get into the playoffs 11 times with at least one I-A on the schedule.
I'll take that.

[SoCon48]

[QUOTE=89Hen]Let me try this another way. Here's how I'd rank the following....

1. National Championship
2. Making the playoffs
3. Conference championship
4. Home games no matter the opponent
5. Road games against good I-AA OOC
6. Potentially winnable games against I-A's
7. Games against a big I-A that is local
8. Games against a big I-A even if its not winnable

How would you rank them?

Since we've never won a National Championship (as Delaware and Montana fans love to point out to us Apps), I feel totally un-qualified to answer with your list of items.

I'll make my own and throw some guesses.

1. Win over LSU tie with:
1. National Championship (but with slight edge to the LSU win)
2. Conference Championship/1st round play-off game
3. One winnable I-A
4. a 6th home game, but the opponent DOES matter
5. Big local I-A
6. Big I-A even if not winnable, provided it is a big name national power
7. Road games against I-AA's (hell we've had too many of those!! and the screw job done by NW State is still too fresh)

But hey, could scramble two or three of the above and I wouldn't care that much.