Question about the SOCON????

[BLUEMOC20]

If you had to rank the best coaches in the socon what they be?

Second part of the question is about a recent person brought up by mocfans.com for the soon to be open coaching position at UTC. Does anybody know anything about Tony Ball? Anything would be much apperciated.

Thanks

[PhoenixPhan06]

I can't run down the whole list but #1 has to be Jerry Moore of App State. Anyone that disagrees has to have their head in the sand! Not just anyone can go out and win 3 straight National Championships and pull of the upset in Ann Arbor last year. The second best coach (I must mention that I'm a little partial) in my opinion is Pete Lembo of Elon. National Coach of the Year in 2001 has really turned our program around in just his third year. We've made a lot of noise over the last year and it all starts with Lembo!

[ASUG8]

http://www.soconsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4000&ATCLID=1550207

Good comparative site if you click on the team pages, but takes a few minutes to load -it gives each coaches' overall record as well as their record since coaching SoCon. Lots of ways to slice this one, so make up your own mind.

[Eaglesrus]

I'm not going to rank them, but I think there's a very good group in Ayers, Higgins, Lembo and Moore. I think Lamb is pretty good to, but I'd take any of the other four before him. As much as I'd like to put Hatcher in that first group and believe that he's going to do great things for us, I just don't think he's had enough time to be judged against the others as yet. The same goes about Wagner, of course, and I can't judge Sullivan compared to these other guys, either. That leaves one guy, so let's just say he'd be at the bottom of my list.

[Erks Eagles]

Top 3
Moore (App State)....National Titles speak for themself
Lembo (Elon).....Has done a lot in a little time.
Ayers (Wofford)....Does more with less than anyone.

[Millwoch]

I can't run down the whole list but #1 has to be Jerry Moore of App State. Anyone that disagrees has to have their head in the sand! Not just anyone can go out and win 3 straight National Championships and pull of the upset in Ann Arbor last year. The second best coach (I must mention that I'm a little partial) in my opinion is Pete Lembo of Elon. National Coach of the Year in 2001 has really turned our program around in just his third year. We've made a lot of noise over the last year and it all starts with Lembo!


I would also put Moore up there along with Ayers. Ayers' system is remarkable. I thnk Lembo, Higgins, and Hatcher have a lot to prove yet. Lamb could jumb into the mix if his team continues to improve. Only 3 schools in the conference have coaches that have been at their schools more than 5 years, and 2 of them finished 1-2 last year. Lamb is the 3rd.

[Mountaineer]

Top 3:

Moore
Ayers
Lamb

Tossup:

Lembo
Higgins

Too soon:

Hatcher
Sullivan
Wagner

Gah!!:
Allison

[youwouldno]

I don't think it's a question that can really be answered, this broadly anyway.

What you see with Moore, Ayers, and Lamb, is more than just the ability of a given coach... there is a tremendous amount of organizational stability in those three football programs. Moore was head coach of App for a long time before he started his title run. Ayers has been HC at Wofford forever, and Lamb has been at Furman in one capacity or another for a very long time.

Of course, there is the element of self-selection; winning coaches stay on or get a better job, losing coaches are fired. But the bottom line is that coaches are part of an organization, and so you have to consider which person is right for a particular job. Lamb might be the best Furman coach you could find, even if he wouldn't be the best coach for a random program (conversely, a good coach can find himself in a bad situation- this happens quite frequently and is more visible).

[PaladinFan]

Top 3:

Moore
Ayers
Lamb

Tossup:

Lembo
Higgins

Too soon:

Hatcher
Sullivan
Wagner

Gah!!:
Allison

Completely agree. Mike Ayers is "pound for pound" the best coach, IMO. If all things were equal, he'd coach the rest of the SoCon under the table.

[CID1990]

Ayers. Without a doubt.

One caveat: I base my pick on several factors, not the least of which are his consistency and the longevity of his success. I think that if they stick around long enough, both Lembo and Higgins will one day equal him.

[appmaj]

Do you we have much fear about losing these guys to "bigger" programs?

I don't really worry about Moore. Age would be a major concern i think for anyone trying to hire him to a FBS program.

[Reign of Terrier]

1. You'd have to go with the two oldest coaches IMO. I give the edge to Ayers (not because he's my teams coach) because Wofford remains competitive with no NFL prospects (though one of our O-line may be). Personally I think if Ayers was at a bigger school with a wider recruiting base he'd be winning championships. He's come so close about twice now and I think he'll get one before he hangs in the head gear.

2. Jerry Moore, Three rings, enough said
3. Pete Limbo is a great recruiter

[furman94]

Lamb should be in the runnings, he has probably been around the program for the longest; he was a player, assistant, and head coach.

[KiddBrewer]

Id have to say Moore and Ayers, in no particular order. Tenure helps you figure it all out

[Sir William]

Ayers

[WCU LawCat]

At this point at Western we can really tell a difference in coaching with Wagner and I think the rest of the conferance will agree within the next two years that Wagner is very good.

1) Ayers
2) Moore
3) Higgins (Hard place to win and recruit)
4) Lembo (recruits hard, turned around Elon rather quickly)
5) Lamb (can't get past the hump. had a down year last year. Needs to win a title.)
6(tie) Hatcher, Wagner (both just started)
7) Sullivan (don't think he will be able to put it all together and be competitive in the tough SoCon)
8) Allision (On his way out. No stability from year to year at UTC)

[OL FU]

I would pick Ayers, I mean who else understands what the "Wofford Way" isxconfusedx

Moore obviously is up at the top but I think doing more with what you have I would take Ayers. (and that is not a slight, I speaking of school size, academics, etc things I knowxsmiley_wix )


He needs a few more years for comparison but I think Higgins will be near the top.

[PaladinFan]

Do you we have much fear about losing these guys to "bigger" programs?

I don't really worry about Moore. Age would be a major concern i think for anyone trying to hire him to a FBS program.

I don't see Lamb leaving. He's been associated with the Furman football program since he was a freshman in the early 80s.

There might be a middle of the road FBS school that might one day take a flyer on him, but it seems like he's got a good thing going in Greenville.

[appfan2008]

Moore and then everyone else

[Jiggs]

7) Sullivan (don't think he will be able to put it all together and be competitive in the tough SoCon)

He'll have it together on October 4th!

[appstate38]

Top 3
Moore (App State)....National Titles speak for themself
Lembo (Elon).....Has done a lot in a little time.
Ayers (Wofford)....Does more with less than anyone.

Some of you terriers please explain this to me. How can this be true. Does Wofford give out less scholarships than the rest of the SoCon??? IF that is the case then I am a believer, if not then you have to try some other line of reasoning.

[phoenix3]

The last I heard, Wofford only had 53 scholarship players. I don't know if that's true or conjecture.

[citdog]

Higgins OWNS "little petey"

[neersnbeers]

I'm with you on that. Its just as much a coach's job to be a "salesman" in the spring as it is to be a coach in the fall. A good coach includes being a good recruiter.

[WCU LawCat]

He'll have it together on October 4th!

Unprovoked trash talk from the SoCon's newest little brother. Hey good luck but your best shot at a SoCon win is not in Cullowhee.

[drpnut]

AppState38

I think I can help explain.

Woffy does only give out about 50-55 Schollies. So this is part of "does more with less factor."

Second, we are a private school and do not have the alumni base of a big Public school, like you or Ga South., etc. So our revenue pool is considerably less.

Third, we only have 1,300 students so we have to recruit kids who want to be at a very small school.

Fourth, we do not have any "give-me" admissions for the athletic department. Even Furman has the ability to take a few minimum qualifiers because the ath. dept is given so many a year. At Woffy there are no such passes.

Fifth, we recruit the same areas as Furple, Appy, GaSouth, etc. So we hve to get kids that will fit our overall system and mindset. And to be honest that does limit us some compared to you other guys.

So I think these are some of the valid reasons we can say with confidence that "we do more with less."

Peace.

By the way, Coach Ayers and Coach Moore are very close friends, so I'm sure they learn a lot from each other.

[elon77]

Higgins OWNS "little petey"

Just heard that the Princeton Band owns The Citadel!xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx Just kidding.Way to kick their yankee butts.xnodx

[PaladinFan]

AppState38

I think I can help explain.

Woffy does only give out about 50-55 Schollies. So this is part of "does more with less factor."

Second, we are a private school and do not have the alumni base of a big Public school, like you or Ga South., etc. So our revenue pool is considerably less.

Third, we only have 1,300 students so we have to recruit kids who want to be at a very small school.

Fourth, we do not have any "give-me" admissions for the athletic department. Even Furman has the ability to take a few minimum qualifiers because the ath. dept is given so many a year. At Woffy there are no such passes.
Fifth, we recruit the same areas as Furple, Appy, GaSouth, etc. So we hve to get kids that will fit our overall system and mindset. And to be honest that does limit us some compared to you other guys.

So I think these are some of the valid reasons we can say with confidence that "we do more with less."

Peace.

By the way, Coach Ayers and Coach Moore are very close friends, so I'm sure they learn a lot from each other.

xlolx Right.

[JDC325]

Top 3:

Moore
Ayers
Lamb

Tossup:

Lembo
Higgins

Too soon:

Hatcher
Sullivan
Wagner

Gah!!:
Allison

DITTO

Hatcher did light it up in DIV II and has a NC under his belt.

[drpnut]

PaladinFan

In the past, (maybe not anymore) I know for a fact that the Furman ath. Dept. had a certain number ( and hear me, the number was low) of "give-me" admissions, i.e., 20 for all sports.

I have a friend that attended FU on one of those schollies.

It may not still be part of what goes on at Furman, but I know it once did go on.

Peace.

[gophoenix]

1) Ayers by far does so much with far less to work with than any other school.
2) Moore, hard to argue with what he's done. He did stagnate for a while but pulled it back together the past 3 years.
3) Higgins, turned The Citadel around in short order. Good recruiter in an environment that is hard to recruit for.
4) Lembo, pulled Elon from one of the worst FCS programs in terrible shape into something respectable
4) Hatcher, still has a lot to prove, but will over time (I think Hatcher, Lembo and Higgins given time will be on even ground)
6) Lamb. I like Lamb, but he seems to be just riding the status quo type of atmosphere at Furman since taking over. They've lost some of their edge that they did have. That may be changing this year.
7) Sullivan. Seems to be a good recruiter. Time will tell the rest.
7) Wagner. Has already done some good in Cullowhee and should be a respectable program in 2 years. Seems to use schemes that work for what he has like Lembo and Higgins did. Like Sullivan, time will tell.

..... so far down for the other group

9) Allison. Show me another coach, outside Bennett at Coastal, who has completely squandered talent and brought in quick fix problem transfers that seem to break the program.

[gophoenix]

Just heard that the Princeton Band owns The Citadel!xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx Just kidding.Way to kick their yankee butts.xnodx

That's not even funny to me. I may fight with CitDog all the time, but there are things you don't do. And what princeton did really pissed me off for one.

[T-Dog]

Top 3:

Moore
Ayers
Lamb

Tossup:

Lembo
Higgins

Too soon:

Hatcher
Sullivan
Wagner

Gah!!:
Allison

Turn the "tossup" category into "done good short term so far" and that's my thoughts.

And I might put Lamb into the "tossup" category. He's had the talent to win 2 or 3 titles in his time (first year was 2002) and hasn't even made a title game (came close though) and with the last two years, it brings him down a notch. Plus he's been known to make a bad decision or two every now and then. xthumbsupx

[elon77]

That's not even funny to me. I may fight with CitDog all the time, but there are things you don't do. And what princeton did really pissed me off for one.

Easy, it was just a poke at Citdog for his quote Higgins owns Little Petey.I have no great love for Princeton or their scrambled up combo. I have great respect for The Citadel and being from Virginia VMI. I had an uncle who is a graduate of The Citadel and many friends who went to VMI. Both schools are outstanding. No harm mean't.xnonono2x

[youwouldno]

PaladinFan

In the past, (maybe not anymore) I know for a fact that the Furman ath. Dept. had a certain number ( and hear me, the number was low) of "give-me" admissions, i.e., 20 for all sports.

I have a friend that attended FU on one of those schollies.

It may not still be part of what goes on at Furman, but I know it once did go on.

Peace.

I have no inside info, but I've heard something similar. However, the exceptions are only used on kids who have the ability to succeed and just didn't apply themselves in HS... Furman's football team has one of the highest graduation rates of any D-I (FBS or FCS) program in the country. So clearly Furman's coaches are very careful about the student-athletes they recruit.

[Dinman31]

Lamb gets a bad wrap among fans because his first impression was the "miracle on the mountain" game and he went 8-4, 6-5 in his first two years.

He is 52-25 (.675) as a head coach, including 31-13 in the SoCon. Lamb is 38-16 (.705) over the last 4+ years and has gone 12-7 in his last 19 games against ranked teams while winning 3 of the last 4 versus rival Georgia Southern. He is 6-2 combined against Ayers and Lembo and has never lost to Ayers on Wofford's home field.

I'm not saying Lamb is better than Moore or Ayers, but he is clearly in the top three in the league. The sometimes exaggerated Furman talent level (our fans love to talk up every recruit we get) and the fact that Furman's admission standards are a good bit higher(and rising) than anyone in the league, including Wofford, show the tremendous job Lamb has done to keep Furman near the top of the league.

[Eaglesrus]

1) ..... so far down for the other group

9) Allison. Show me another coach, outside Bennett at Coastal, who has completely squandered talent and brought in quick fix problem transfers that seem to break the program.

Well, there was this guy who came to Statesboro a couple of years ago.....

[Dinman31]

I have no inside info, but I've heard something similar. However, the exceptions are only used on kids who have the ability to succeed and just didn't apply themselves in HS... Furman's football team has one of the highest graduation rates of any D-I (FBS or FCS) program in the country. So clearly Furman's coaches are very careful about the student-athletes they recruit.

The term is marginals. Furman has had the ability to get some in but what you are thinking is marginal isn't what the word means at Furman. Basically anyone below an 1100 SAT (old scale) could end up falling in the "marginal" category. While there have been a number well below that get in Furman over the years, there have been several who the Paladins couldn't touch that went on to help a local rival win a SoCon championship or two.

Coach Bobby Johnson was so well suited at both Furman and Vandy and Lamb is so well suited at Furman because they are great at playing the role of the academic school in their league. They have to recruit a specific type of kid from a limited pool and make sure they can succeed academically once they get to Furman.

[PhoenixPhan06]

That's not even funny to me. I may fight with CitDog all the time, but there are things you don't do. And what princeton did really pissed me off for one.

What was it that Princeton did that was so repulsive?

[Mountaineer]

Was only a matter of time.

xlolx xlolx

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/710/soconsnobje6.jpg

[GSUhooligan]

Turn the "tossup" category into "done good short term so far" and that's my thoughts.

And I might put Lamb into the "tossup" category. He's had the talent to win 2 or 3 titles in his time (first year was 2002) and hasn't even made a title game (came close though) and with the last two years, it brings him down a notch. Plus he's been known to make a bad decision or two every now and then. xthumbsupx

How long was Moore at App before they made a title game and or won?

[CID1990]

Well, there was this guy who came to Statesboro a couple of years ago.....

There's also Ellis Johnson.

[gophoenix]

What was it that Princeton did that was so repulsive?

http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/sep/21/shame_on_princeton_band55311/

Basically, their band marched down an area dedicated to fallen alum of The Citadel and went to where cadets were doing field exercises and yelled anti-war slogans among other things (much more distasteful). It's all in the article.

[PaladinFan]

I don't see how any rational SoCon fan could rank Hatcher, Higgins, and Lembo before Lamb. Maybe I'm a homer, but that seems nuts.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

We have a lot of good coaches in this conference (I don't think it's too bold to say the best group in the FCS), so I hate to make a full list and have a good coach at #8ish or so. But I would like to say a few things about Wagner and Hatcher.

First Wagner...he turned a pretty bad NAIA team that was not even close to 0.500 in their past two seasons and made them a good DII team with a top 5 offense. That guy is going to bring success that WCU hasn't seen since Bob Waters, and maybe even more.

As for Hatcher, I don't see how anyone can't predict that GSU is going to be back in the top 10 within the next couple of seasons. I just don't know how else you can explain that 10 of Hatcher's 12 FCS games as the GSU coach have been decided by 7 points or less (with some less than impressive wins) while we have wins over App. State, Wofford, and The Citadel from last year.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

How long was Moore at App before they made a title game and or won?

His first season was '89, IIRC. Same with Ayers and Wofford.

[gophoenix]

There's also Ellis Johnson.

or Paul Hamilton or Al Seagraves

[PTW16]

I don't see how any rational SoCon fan could rank Hatcher, Higgins, and Lembo before Lamb. Maybe I'm a homer, but that seems nuts.

I don't see how Lembo can get ranked ahead of Higgins. It's much easier to recruit to Elon than it is The Citadel and Lembo is 0-2 against Higgins...