Having a great conference not always good

[GrizSweeper]

There are some really good football teams in some power conferences this year (A-10, Big Sky, etc.). But because of the parity in these leagues many will end up with just average 7-4 records. Do you think the playoff committee will take all this into account or will an 8-3 or 9-2 team from a weak conference get the nod instead?

[barechestcat]

I think we're on the same thought plane (imagine that a Cat and a Griz thinking along similar lines - LOL). I just posted a similar question on the "16 playoff game thread"

[skinny_uncle]

There are folks in the Gateway with similar concerns. We have no clue how many at-large bids we might get despite having 5 teams in most top 25 polls last week. The conference has been stong this year, but parity at the top is going to lead to a lot of top teams beating each other up the next couple of weeks.

[CatFan22]

If there is a three-way tie in the BSC i would hope a weak 9-2 team doesn't get the nod ahead of EWU, MSU, PSU, or UM.

[JALMOND]

You look at the Big Sky and how they beefed up their schedule across the board this year, with all teams playing at least one I-A school. Though we all played well, we all lost so we all have that 1 "L" on our record that still should play into the mind of the committee. A 7-4 team from the Big Sky actually will have only 3 I-AA losses (at most), therefore should be looked at similar to other schools with 3 I-AA losses, not those with 4 I-AA losses. Just my opinion...

[Mr. C]

I'll believe the committee putting a 7-4 team in with an at-large bid only when I see it. They have just been so dead set against it over the years. A couple of years ago, I felt like two 7-4 teams that were left out of the playoffs, Appalachian State and Stephen F. Austin, were playing as well as any team in the country when the playoffs started and could have gone as far as the semifinals, ife they had been invited. Both of those teams started slowly and then came on like gangbusters at the end of the year. History shows that the committee would be more likely to put a 10-1 Coastal Carolina, or a 9-2 South Carolina State in ahead of a 7-4 team.

[mainejeff]

Funny how the thought process around here in the past has been "you better be 8-3 or better or you're not going to the playoffs"......Now that power programs are struggling for 8 wins, everyone seems to be lowering the bar.......hmmm.

[JALMOND]

Funny how the thought process around here in the past has been "you better be 8-3 or better or you're not going to the playoffs"......Now that power programs are struggling for 8 wins, everyone seems to be lowering the bar.......hmmm.

Last year (and the years before) the guidelines were different. Last year it was "4 and you're out". This year it was set during the summer that 7 DI wins and you'll be considered (first I heard of it was here during the summer). It is not something that came about within the last month.

From what I heard, it had something to do with I-A teams now being able to count a victory over I-AA towards bowl eligibility. The I-AA committee did not want to penalize those I-AA teams playing I-A teams. Or something like that.

[Cocky]

There are some really good football teams in some power conferences this year (A-10, Big Sky, etc.). But because of the parity in these leagues many will end up with just average 7-4 records. Do you think the playoff committee will take all this into account or will an 8-3 or 9-2 team from a weak conference get the nod instead?

If you're in a preceived weak conference you have to win the championship to get to the playoffs. This makes it real difficult in the playoffs as you have had to play under a lot more pressure during the regular season.

In our case, we have one or two good conference opponents during the season. This makes it hard to gauge your team against playoff quality teams. You just can't make the necessary adjustments if the weakness are not exposed.

Year in and year out a team is better off in a good conference.

[UNHWildCats]

There are some really good football teams in some power conferences this year (A-10, Big Sky, etc.). But because of the parity in these leagues many will end up with just average 7-4 records. Do you think the playoff committee will take all this into account or will an 8-3 or 9-2 team from a weak conference get the nod instead?

they shoul look at stregth of schedule, lets say for example if a 9-2 team with a strength of schedule sya around .5912 and a 11-0 team with a strenght of schedule of .4752 i personally would pick the 9-2 team to get in.

[lugo02]

You're suppose to take care of you own reagardless of what conference you're from. Idealy every team from the same conference should be at roughly the same level regardless of conference strength and should not complain when someone else who win their conference gets sent to the playoffs. A 9-2 team has taken care of there own and a 7-4 teams has not.

Furthermore is it fair for the committee to choose all 16 teams from the so called power conferences. Isn't that what the BCS is all about, a group of conference coming together forming there only post season games while excluding the rest of the division.
If you guys feel that only teams from the so called power conference should be inthe playoff then why not go and form your own BCS and leave the reast of I-AA to play for the NCAA National Football Championships.

[LUHawker]

You're suppose to take care of you own reagardless of what conference you're from. Idealy every team from the same conference should be at roughly the same level regardless of conference strength and should not complain when someone else who win their conference gets sent to the playoffs. A 9-2 team has taken care of there own and a 7-4 teams has not.

Furthermore is it fair for the committee to choose all 16 teams from the so called power conferences. Isn't that what the BCS is all about, a group of conference coming together forming there only post season games while excluding the rest of the division.
If you guys feel that only teams from the so called power conference should be inthe playoff then why not go and form your own BCS and leave the reast of I-AA to play for the NCAA National Football Championships.

Very nice retort.

[bostonspider]

Isn't this just the same argument that is made during the NCAA Basketball tournament every year? Whether or not mid majors deserve the at large bids over teams from the power conferences with lessor records but much stronger strength of schedules. Is a UR team that ends up 7-4 (6-2 in conference) with a loss to Vandy, better or worse than a Coastal Carolina? It is hard to say. It is sort of interesting that almost all of the schools in the "power" conferences in football, are in the other boat in basketball.

[colgate13]

I just love that the Big Sky, A-10, Gateway, etc. are all saying that the great conference is the reason for these records. Well then what's with the Patriot for example - or even the Ivy (even though they are not in the playoffs)? There's plenty of parity there this year too.

There are PLENTY of good teams, across MANY conferences this year. This is not a situation isolated to the so-called 'power' conferences. I said this earlier and I'll say it again:

In a wonderful OOC illustration: Right now the PL 1st and 2nd place teams have wins over the 1st and 2nd place teams in the A-10. Please fit that one into your assumptions of power conferences and why teams with a 7-4 record or worse from one of them is better than an 8-3 team from a 'lesser' conference.

This has been a crazy year all across I-AA. It makes for some exciting football. But if anything, it shows that bias against what team should beat what team can be thrown out the window in many cases. I hope that lesson is applied to the playoff picture as well. Teams that have won deserve to be considered.

[Slammer50111]

I know this would never fly with anybody thought but what about the thought that you can't play in the playoffs unless you win your conference. Don't you think it is a little odd that someone can claim they are Nat. Champs yet they weren't even the best team in their conference. The same goes for the B-ball championship. It is just a way for the NCAA to make money. Lets face it that is all the NCAA is really all about how to make money. If there was no way for them to make money off of any playoffs they would never hold them.

Anyway just a thought.

[colgate13]

That's not a bad thought, except for the fact that the I-AA playoffs, and the majority of other Division I playoffs, don't make money (or a ton of it at least). Basketball is it.

[bostonspider]

But I don't think it just comes down to the conference argument, there is also the OOC play. Now I am not talking about the PL here, as Lafayette certainly beat UR, but what about other games. How does a loss to a relatively good 1-A compare to a victory over a lower level 1-AA team, if that is the game that separates 7-4 from 8-3?

[AZGrizFan]

Funny how the thought process around here in the past has been "you better be 8-3 or better or you're not going to the playoffs"......Now that power programs are struggling for 8 wins, everyone seems to be lowering the bar.......hmmm.


As opposed to Maine, which struggles for 5 wins? ;) ;) Me thinks you protesteth too much. :nod: :nod:

[Catmendue2]

Funny how the thought process around here in the past has been "you better be 8-3 or better or you're not going to the playoffs"......Now that power programs are struggling for 8 wins, everyone seems to be lowering the bar.......hmmm.


The truth, and nothing but the truth. :D ;)

[colgate13]

How does a loss to a relatively good 1-A compare to a victory over a lower level 1-AA team, if that is the game that separates 7-4 from 8-3?

The danger, IMO, is to assume that if the 7-4 team replaced the I-A loss with a I-AA game, it would be replaced with a I-AA win. I personally, especially this season, think that is folly. You can't credit a team that lost to a I-A with a "what-if" I-AA win for comparison sake. You can only go on actual wins IMO.

[LacesOut]

Glad I'm not on the committee and have to make the difficult decision of who gets in the playoffs and who does not!!

[Catmendue2]

This has been a crazy year all across I-AA. It makes for some exciting football. But if anything, it shows that bias against what team should beat what team can be thrown out the window in many cases. I hope that lesson is applied to the playoff picture as well. Teams that have won deserve to be considered.


You are a wise man. I have been saying this for three years already. :eek:

[Lapper]

You're suppose to take care of you own reagardless of what conference you're from. Idealy every team from the same conference should be at roughly the same level regardless of conference strength and should not complain when someone else who win their conference gets sent to the playoffs. A 9-2 team has taken care of there own and a 7-4 teams has not.

Furthermore is it fair for the committee to choose all 16 teams from the so called power conferences. Isn't that what the BCS is all about, a group of conference coming together forming there only post season games while excluding the rest of the division.
If you guys feel that only teams from the so called power conference should be inthe playoff then why not go and form your own BCS and leave the reast of I-AA to play for the NCAA National Football Championships.

AMEN! :nod: I was starting to think that I was the only one thinking that I-AA was turning to the "Dark Side."

[PIRATETIZED1]

Originally posted by mainejeff
Funny how the thought process around here in the past has been "you better be 8-3 or better or you're not going to the playoffs"......Now that power programs are struggling for 8 wins, everyone seems to be lowering the bar.......hmmm.
################################################## ####

:nod: ;)

PIRATETIZED :cool:
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HAMPTON UNIVERSITY - “…Of Service To God and Our Nation…”

[OL FU]

The danger, IMO, is to assume that if the 7-4 team replaced the I-A loss with a I-AA game, would be replaced with a I-AA win. I personally, especially this season, think that is folly. You can't credit a team that lost to a I-A with a "what-if" I-AA win for comparison sake. You can only go on actual wins IMO.

I have tried to say that a few times on this board but was never quite able to say it as well as you, 13. Can I PM you for help in the future when I am trying to make this point. :) I absolutely agree.

On the other hand, I have been worried about FU not making it if we end up 8-3. :eek:

[PIRATETIZED1]

Originally posted by lugo02
You're suppose to take care of you own reagardless of what conference you're from. Idealy every team from the same conference should be at roughly the same level regardless of conference strength and should not complain when someone else who win their conference gets sent to the playoffs. A 9-2 team has taken care of there own and a 7-4 teams has not.

Furthermore is it fair for the committee to choose all 16 teams from the so called power conferences. Isn't that what the BCS is all about, a group of conference coming together forming there only post season games while excluding the rest of the division.
If you guys feel that only teams from the so called power conference should be inthe playoff then why not go and form your own BCS and leave the reast of I-AA to play for the NCAA National Football Championships.

:nod:

Very Nicely Done!!!

PIRATETIZED :cool:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
HAMPTON UNIVERSITY - “…Of Service To God and Our Nation…”

[AppGuy04]

Furthermore is it fair for the committee to choose all 16 teams from the so called power conferences.

yes it is fair, if those 16 teams are deemed the best, but don't think that will ever happen

[barechestcat]

You're suppose to take care of you own reagardless of what conference you're from. Idealy every team from the same conference should be at roughly the same level regardless of conference strength and should not complain when someone else who win their conference gets sent to the playoffs. A 9-2 team has taken care of there own and a 7-4 teams has not.

Furthermore is it fair for the committee to choose all 16 teams from the so called power conferences. Isn't that what the BCS is all about, a group of conference coming together forming there only post season games while excluding the rest of the division.
If you guys feel that only teams from the so called power conference should be inthe playoff then why not go and form your own BCS and leave the reast of I-AA to play for the NCAA National Football Championships.

This wasn't a conversation started to say that only power conferences should have representatives. I also realize that not every conference has an automatic bid. But, the at large selections should go to best teams to round out the field of 16 in as strong a manner as possible. The conversation then goes to whether a team who has played a tougher schedule and ends up 7-4 is more deserving then someone who ends up at 8-3. Now if I follow your logic here Lugo, a team with an 8-3 record in a less acclaimed conference w/o the auto bid arguably didn't take care of business and it could be argued is less deserving of say a co-champ in a more highly claimed conference (it's entirely possible that we could end up with a four way conference champion this way in the Big Sky but only one gets the autobid)

[colgate13]

I have tried to say that a few times on this board but was never quite able to say it as well as you, 13. Can I PM you for help in the future when I am trying to make this point. :) I absolutely agree.


Thank you. Who said liberal arts degrees aren't worthy? :)

Feel free to quote this whenever you like. My royalty fees are reasonable. ;)

[OL FU]

Thank you. Who said liberal arts degrees aren't worthy? :)

Feel free to quote this whenever you like. My royalty fees are reasonable. ;)

Must be my BA in Business. I say things like your AD sold out your chances at the playoffs! Your way sounded much better.

[SoCon48]

I'll believe the committee putting a 7-4 team in with an at-large bid only when I see it. They have just been so dead set against it over the years. A couple of years ago, I felt like two 7-4 teams that were left out of the playoffs, Appalachian State and Stephen F. Austin, were playing as well as any team in the country when the playoffs started and could have gone as far as the semifinals, ife they had been invited. Both of those teams started slowly and then came on like gangbusters at the end of the year. History shows that the committee would be more likely to put a 10-1 Coastal Carolina, or a 9-2 South Carolina State in ahead of a 7-4 team.

Sadly, you're right.

[SoCon48]

Isn't this just the same argument that is made during the NCAA Basketball tournament every year? Whether or not mid majors deserve the at large bids over teams from the power conferences with lessor records but much stronger strength of schedules. Is a UR team that ends up 7-4 (6-2 in conference) with a loss to Vandy, better or worse than a Coastal Carolina? It is hard to say. It is sort of interesting that almost all of the schools in the "power" conferences in football, are in the other boat in basketball.

i.e. 3rd place in the A-10 maybe is not as good as the 1st in the Big South?
I'll have to get back to you on that one.

[89Hen]

Funny how the thought process around here in the past has been "you better be 8-3 or better or you're not going to the playoffs"......Now that power programs are struggling for 8 wins, everyone seems to be lowering the bar.......hmmm.
Not wholly accurate. It's not that the usualy suspects aren't around, it's that NOBODY is around. Let me give a huge what if, but tell me if any of this is unrealistic....

UNH is the only 8-3 or better team in the A10:
- UMass loses to Delaware and Army but beats Hofstra that makes UMass and Hofstra both 7-4.

- Richmond loses to William and Mary making them 7-4.

- William & Mary loses to either JMU or Delaware making them 7-4.

- Towson loses to Villanova, Richmond or JMU making them 7-4.

Montana is the only 8-3 team in the Big Sky:
- Montana State loses to Montana but beats EWU making MSU and EWU 7-4.

YSU is the only 8-3 team in the Gateway:
- SIU loses to YSU and NDSU but beats UNI making SIU and UNI 7-4.
- WKU loses to two of UNI, YSU and FIU making them 7-4.

FU is the only 8-3 team in the Southern:
- GSU loses to Furman making them 7-4
- Wofford loses to Furman making them 7-4
- AppSt loses to LSU and WCU making them 7-4
- WCU won't have 7 DI wins no matter what they do.

Lehigh is the only 8-3 team in the Patriot:
- Lafayette loses to Holy Cross and Lehigh but beats Colgate making LC and CU 7-4

NO teams in the Southland have more than 7 wins:
- Nichols beats NWSt and McNeese and NWSt beats McNeese giving all four 4 losses.
- Texas State loses to McNeese and SHSU making them 7-4.

EIU will be the only OVC that is 8-3 or better

NO playoff eligible teams in the Great West are 8-3:
CalPoly loses to EWU making them 7-4

SO, here are your teams in the playoffs so far....

UNH
Montana
YSU
Furman
Lehigh
A Southland team with the auto (I'm too confused to figure who)
Hampton
Eastern Illinois

Your at large:
Coastal (we'll go ahead and assume they're in)
SC State (again, we'll assume they're in)
OK...... who's left that isn't 7-4?....

San Diego?
Central Connecticut State?
Third place SWAC team Alabama A&M? Assuming they're not in the SWAC Championship game.

[AppGuy04]

Not wholly accurate. It's not that the usualy suspects aren't around, it's that NOBODY is around. Let me give a huge what if, but tell me if any of this is unrealistic....

UNH is the only 8-3 or better team in the A10:
- UMass loses to Delaware and Army but beats Hofstra that makes UMass and Hofstra both 7-4.

- Richmond loses to William and Mary making them 7-4.

- William & Mary loses to either JMU or Delaware making them 7-4.

- Towson loses to Villanova, Richmond or JMU making them 7-4.

Montana is the only 8-3 team in the Big Sky:
- Montana State loses to Montana but beats EWU making MSU and EWU 7-4.

YSU is the only 8-3 team in the Gateway:
- SIU loses to YSU and NDSU but beats UNI making SIU and UNI 7-4.
- WKU loses to two of UNI, YSU and FIU making them 7-4.

FU is the only 8-3 team in the Southern:
- GSU loses to Furman making them 7-4
- Wofford loses to Furman making them 7-4
- AppSt loses to LSU and WCU making them 7-4
- WCU won't have 7 DI wins no matter what they do.

Lehigh is the only 8-3 team in the Patriot:
- Lafayette loses to Holy Cross and Lehigh but beats Colgate making LC and CU 7-4

NO teams in the Southland have more than 7 wins:
- Nichols beats NWSt and McNeese and NWSt beats McNeese giving all four 4 losses.
- Texas State loses to McNeese and SHSU making them 7-4.

EIU will be the only OVC that is 8-3 or better

NO playoff eligible teams in the Great West are 8-3:
CalPoly loses to EWU making them 7-4

SO, here are your teams in the playoffs so far....

UNH
Montana
YSU
Furman
Lehigh
A Southland team with the auto (I'm too confused to figure who)
Hampton
Eastern Illinois

Your at large:
Coastal (we'll go ahead and assume they're in)
SC State (again, we'll assume they're in)
OK...... who's left that isn't 7-4?....

San Diego?
Central Connecticut State?
Third place SWAC team Alabama A&M? Assuming they're not in the SWAC Championship game.

I don't think App will lose to Western, but if they do, they would probably get in before SCSU

i think you might see some 7-4 "power conference" teams in this year

[89Hen]

I don't think App will lose to Western, but if they do, they would probably get in before SCSU
I don't think so either, but the Furman fans probably didn't think they would either and their offense seems to be a little bit more back on track. But if they did lose and were 7-4, my point was that a 7-4 ASU would probably get a look.

[AppGuy04]

I don't think so either, but the Furman fans probably didn't think they would either and their offense seems to be a little bit more back on track. But if they did lose and were 7-4, my point was that a 7-4 ASU would probably get a look.

i think they would be one of very few that would