Announcement On UNCC Football Today?

[Appinator]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/college_football/story/195488.html

The Charlotte Observer reports that "Hundreds" of students will be rallying on campus to hear the recommendation of their Chancellor as to whether or not their school will be seeing any grid-iron action in the near future.

The endless conference affiliation of UNCC debate might be stirred up again with this official release, or possibly put to rest.

[Appstate29]

hundreds?? Out of 22000? I'd say we are going to see a not-right-now from the Chancellor. He'll probably be burned at the stake.

[appmaj]

Do UNCC students really care about football?

[SoCon48]

Only way the answer today will be yes is if Judy Rose's retirement is simultaneously announced.

[appfan2008]

there is no way this is going to happen... at least i hope not anyway... app does a lot of recruiting down there in charlotte!

[KiddBrewer]

I hope it does happen, cause i have a few friends down at Charlotte that truly belief if they had a football team, they could beat us.....xcoolx

[DFW HOYA]

I hope it does happen, cause i have a few friends down at Charlotte that truly belief if they had a football team, they could beat us.....xcoolx

And in time, they would.

Charlotte could truly be the next South Florida given their size, location, and the support of the UNC system. It's the largest D-I school in the Southeast without football and all the pieces are there to be a big success.

[Appstate29]

And in time, they would.

Charlotte could truly be the next South Florida given their size, location, and the support of the UNC system. It's the largest D-I school in the Southeast without football and all the pieces are there to be a big success.

Yeah, but UNCC has almost no support at all. No corporate sponsors, little student support, and little alumni support. They also feel like they get shafted by the UNC system (which they do, and so do we, **** UNC-CH)

[asucraig33]

Yeah, but UNCC has almost no support at all. No corporate sponsors, little student support, and little alumni support. They also feel like they get shafted by the UNC system (which they do, and so do we, **** UNC-CH)

And people ask me why I don't go to UNC being from Chapel Hill. Sums it up right there. Not too mention, I'd rather not be considered a jerk, d-bag, stuck-up....or.....need I go on? UNC is sooooooooooooooooooo overrated it's not even funny anymore.xnonono2x

[WileECoyote06]

Yeah, but UNCC has almost no support at all. No corporate sponsors, little student support, and little alumni support. They also feel like they get shafted by the UNC system (which they do, and so do we, **** UNC-CH)

It's NC State and ECU as well. Believe me, the other public schools all feel the brunt of the 'three'. And I hope Charlotte doesn't activate their program. There are already too many football playing colleges in North Carolina.

[DLS]

And people ask me why I don't go to UNC being from Chapel Hill. Sums it up right there. Not too mention, I'd rather not be considered a jerk, d-bag, stuck-up....or.....need I go on? UNC is sooooooooooooooooooo overrated it's not even funny anymore.xnonono2x

yea but thats like someone saying "i dont want to go to app so im not considered a dirty hippie with no life ambition besides illegal substances."

also how in the hell is chapel hill over rated?

[appfan2008]

It's NC State and ECU as well. Believe me, the other public schools all feel the brunt of the 'three'. And I hope Charlotte doesn't activate their program. There are already too many football playing colleges in North Carolina.

xnodx xnodx xnodx

[DLS]

It's NC State and ECU as well. Believe me, the other public schools all feel the brunt of the 'three'. And I hope Charlotte doesn't activate their program. There are already too many football playing colleges in North Carolina.

its because there are so many big name colleges in the state. you can never have too many good colleges.

[WileECoyote06]

its because there are so many big name colleges in the state. you can never have too many good colleges.

It isn't even about 'big names'. It's about the number of colleges period. I believe there are 31 four-year colleges playing football now.

[Appinator]

It isn't even about 'big names'. It's about the number of colleges period. I believe there are 31 four-year colleges playing football now.

I really don't think it's the total number of programs that are the problem, but the number of Division 1 programs. If UNCC created a D1 team, the only state in the US that would have more than North Carolina would be Texas. Kind of seems like we would be delivering a diluted product, wouldn't you think?

[Appstate29]

I really don't think it's the total number of programs that are the problem, but the number of Division 1 programs. If UNCC created a D1 team, the only state in the US that would have more than North Carolina would be Texas. Kind of seems like we would be delivering a diluted product, wouldn't you think?

Ohio, FLa, and Cal have more, but we don't have the kind of in-state talent to support that many MAJOR football teams, especially considering our best players usually go to out-of-state schools.

[appmaj]

"Charlotte" seems to be distancing itself from the UNC system. I just don't think that the city could support this team.

[KiddBrewer]

"Charlotte" seems to be distancing itself from the UNC system. I just don't think that the city could support this team.

well were not UNC Boone either.................xcoffeex

[KiddBrewer]

And in time, they would.

Charlotte could truly be the next South Florida given their size, location, and the support of the UNC system. It's the largest D-I school in the Southeast without football and all the pieces are there to be a big success.

What i meant to say was........they think they could come right in and beat us. sorry bout the confusion. they could beat us over time, ill agree with that. and they could, in theory, have a very respectable program, in time. However, the support for college football at that university, as a whole, is simply not there at this time. It would take atleast 10 years, IMO, and they would not start out at the FBS level, also IMO.

heck, Western Carolina and JMU could beat us, in time............

disclaimer- i withhold the right to retract that last statement within one weeks time.

[KiddBrewer]

And people ask me why I don't go to UNC being from Chapel Hill. Sums it up right there. Not too mention, I'd rather not be considered a jerk, d-bag, stuck-up....or.....need I go on? UNC is sooooooooooooooooooo overrated it's not even funny anymore.xnonono2x

I dont care for UNC-CH......but it is certainly not overrated. It is one of the top academic institutions in the region for sure.

[gophoenix]

I really don't think it's the total number of programs that are the problem, but the number of Division 1 programs. If UNCC created a D1 team, the only state in the US that would have more than North Carolina would be Texas. Kind of seems like we would be delivering a diluted product, wouldn't you think?

Not really. There would only be 9 state schools playing D-I. Sure the privates recruit from NC too, they also lean heavily out of state for both scholarship and walk-on players.

That is, if I counted right:
State: App, Western, A&T, NCCU, WSSU, UNC-CH, NCSU, ECU and/if UNCC
Private: Elon, Duke, Wake, G-W (Davidson, Campbell who don't recruit the same way)

This isn't terribly much different than the situation in Virginia, Ohio, Tennessee, Texas or Florida overall. Heck, look at South Carolina and it is a fraction of the size of NC. And didn't the state change the rules to allow out-of-state athletic tuition anyway?

[TexasTerror]

So, anything come from this...?

[ERASU2113]

I'm stuck at work so I wasn't able to ask my girlfriend at UNCC, I'll check with her later tonight when I get off work.

Actually story link from the rally:
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/100/story/196928.html

Pep Rally - with no official announcement

[SoCon48]

Not really. There would only be 9 state schools playing D-I. Sure the privates recruit from NC too, they also lean heavily out of state for both scholarship and walk-on players.

That is, if I counted right:
State: App, Western, A&T, NCCU, WSSU, UNC-CH, NCSU, ECU and/if UNCC
Private: Elon, Duke, Wake, G-W (Davidson, Campbell who don't recruit the same way)

This isn't terribly much different than the situation in Virginia, Ohio, Tennessee, Texas or Florida overall. Heck, look at South Carolina and it is a fraction of the size of NC. And didn't the state change the rules to allow out-of-state athletic tuition anyway?

And didn't the state change the rules to allow out-of-state athletic tuition anyway?

Didn't pass.

[gophoenix]

And didn't the state change the rules to allow out-of-state athletic tuition anyway?

Didn't pass.

Oh wow. Had no idea. Was this a legislature vote or the state board vote?

[yosef1969]

The UNCC Chancellor makes his recommondation to the Board of Trustees tomorrow, September 18th.

For purely selfish reasons I hope it doesn't happen.

I think the alumni, students and city would eventually get behind the program but the issue is going to more likely be about getting the funding up front. They don't have a stadium to play in currently.

In comparison USF plays at Raymond James Stadium, also home to the Buccaneers. So they pay a modest amount when compared to building a new facility. I suppose the 49ers could consider playing at BofA but that hasn't been part of the presentation to date primarily because BofA is a good 30 minutes from campus. I'm not at all familar with USF so I don't know where the campus is in relation to the stadium there.

The proposals so far have the students carrying the biggest part of the burden, more than any other student fees in the state if I'm not mistaken.

[Rekdiver]

The Chancellor for UNCC does not want football. Judy Rose is afraid of losing her power and job as they look for a more powerful AD. They will use the uncertain economic times as an excuse not to do anything at this time.

[yosef1969]

The Chancellor for UNCC does not want football. Judy Rose is afraid of losing her power and job as they look for a more powerful AD. They will use the uncertain economic times as an excuse not to do anything at this time.

Again for selfish reasons I hope you're right but this is the most steam this thing has ever had. Judy Rose has little to do with decision, she's presided over an athletics program that has gone from membership in CUSA with burgeoning rivalries to the current sad state of affairs in the A-10 (no offense to the A-10 as a whole but it's simply not a good fit for UNCC at all). Her welcome was worn out years ago. but with no program to direct why bother firing her, can't get a good AD until you have a football team anyway.

UNCC is at a crossroads and Dubois just may be a guy worried about his legacy. I'm afraid this might happen.

[Appinator]

Not really. There would only be 9 state schools playing D-I. Sure the privates recruit from NC too, they also lean heavily out of state for both scholarship and walk-on players.

That is, if I counted right:
State: App, Western, A&T, NCCU, WSSU, UNC-CH, NCSU, ECU and/if UNCC
Private: Elon, Duke, Wake, G-W (Davidson, Campbell who don't recruit the same way)

This isn't terribly much different than the situation in Virginia, Ohio, Tennessee, Texas or Florida overall. Heck, look at South Carolina and it is a fraction of the size of NC. And didn't the state change the rules to allow out-of-state athletic tuition anyway?

Yes, 9 state supported, but as you listed them, but with the addition of UNCC, the total number of division 1 programs would be 15

By comparison, the states you mentioned have:
Texas: 15 (10FBS 5FCS)
North Carolina: 15 (5FBS 10FCS) UNCC included as FCS
California: 11 (7FBS 4FCS)
Ohio: 10 (8FBS 2FCS)
Florida: 10 (7FBS 3FCS)
Tennessee: 9 (4FBS 5FCS)
South Carolina: 9 (2FBS 7FCS)
Virginia: 9 (2FBS 7FCS)

That is terribly different.

[IndianaAppMan]

Does anybody know whether UNCC would be planning to go FBS as rapidly as possible, the way that FAU and FIU did, or if they would want to stay FCS for the foreseeable future?

By comparison, another large research university that both started as a commuter school and is fighting for national recognition, Georgia State has stated no intentions of going to FBS.

UNCC would have a hard time finding a conference. Some say the SoCon may expand to 14. I suppose UNCC could be among the hypothetical new 2, along with Coastal, Jacksonville State, and Georgia State. The Big South would likely still have room. Meanwhile, UNCC might not want to be in either conference for its other sports, since the A-10 does get more national pub for b-ball. On the other hand, if they went 1A, I'm sure there will be a shuffling of the conferences in the next few years that might make room for UNCC.

I don't think it would really be an "excuse" if UNCC doesn't choose to add football based on these troubling economic times. It really worries me when, in the span of a week, Merrill Lynch, AIG, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and Lehman Bros. all hit rock bottom. Wachovia, the fourth-largest bank in the country (whose headquarters is ten minutes from UNCC) is in turmoil with a recently fired CEO. Without a doubt, a nice handful of UNCC's richest potential donors were hurt by that. Not to mention the skyrocketing costs of tuition, construction (including a football stadium), the decreased value of the dollar, etc. You're nuts if you write all that off as merely an "excuse" not to start football.

Why wasn't there a stronger push 5 years ago?

[SFspidur]

Charlotte's plan is to go FBS in 2016. Who knows what the conference situation will look like at that point.

[danefan]

CAA South football affiliate and add Albany to the CAA North as a football affiliate.

I'll take it!xthumbsupx xthumbsupx xthumbsupx xthumbsupx xthumbsupx xthumbsupx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx

[SFspidur]

Just what we need...16 teams in the CAA!

Since Charlotte's just passing through FCS, I wouldn't imagine they'd be too concerned about conference affiliation. They'll spend those four years jockeying for their FBS conference slot.

[mountaineertider]

yea but thats like someone saying "i dont want to go to app so im not considered a dirty hippie with no life ambition besides illegal substances."

also how in the hell is chapel hill over rated?

Well from my experience on the Hill:

I'm an accounting major and have wanted to be one since I first took computerized accounting back in the 10th grade. I saw that UNC had a highly rated business school and saw in a brochure that they offered Accounting as a major. They didn't say however that it was only at the Masters level.

When I went there for a scholarship interview, they asked what I wanted to major in. I told them accounting and was laughed out of the room. They told me it was only at the Master's level and that I should consider other schools in my search. (Luckily, I had thank God.) When I got home I looked in a packet they gave me, and certain business majors only required taking 10 business classes. 10! I don't see how anyone could get a good business education with only 10 business classes. I've taken 12 in the last three semesters at App.

All of this said, some employers still drool over a UNC diploma over an ASU one. This sir, IMHO, is why UNC-CH is overrated. All they do, again, just IMHO, is market their name well. Tar Heels don't get a better education compared Mountaineers, yet the whole world thinks other wise.

[/steps off soapbox]

[dbackjon]

Well from my experience on the Hill:

I'm an accounting major and have wanted to be one since I first took computerized accounting back in the 10th grade. I saw that UNC had a highly rated business school and saw in a brochure that they offered Accounting as a major. They didn't say however that it was only at the Masters level.

When I went there for a scholarship interview, they asked what I wanted to major in. I told them accounting and was laughed out of the room. They told me it was only at the Master's level and that I should consider other schools in my search. (Luckily, I had thank God.) When I got home I looked in a packet they gave me, and certain business majors only required taking 10 business classes. 10! I don't see how anyone could get a good business education with only 10 business classes. I've taken 12 in the last three semesters at App.

All of this said, some employers still drool over a UNC diploma over an ASU one. This sir, IMHO, is why UNC-CH is overrated. All they do, again, just IMHO, is market their name well. Tar Heels don't get a better education compared Mountaineers, yet the whole world thinks other wise.

[/steps off soapbox]

I feel your pain. NAU's business undergrad business program is the best in the state, but gets shunned because it is NAU. At NAU, your classes are actually taught by Professors.

[yosef1969]

UNCC would attempt to go the route of USF, Independent FCS for 4 years trying to prepare for a move into a FBS (ideally BCS) conference as soon as possible. As someone else already said they have stated that their intention would be to move to FBS in 2016. Might not happen as soon as they'd like but don't discount it out of hand, Charlotte is the 24th ranked media market and growing.

[BearsCountry]

Why wasn't there a stronger push 5 years ago?

They figured out that football is the driver among expansion and growth in college sports today.

[BearsCountry]

If I was the Sun Belt, I would be looking into two former members of the conference in Charlotte and Georgia State. Charlotte and Atlanta to go along with Miami, Nashville, Dallas and New Orleans would be not to bad for the tv contract.

[IndianaAppMan]

UNCC would attempt to go the route of USF, Independent FCS for 4 years trying to prepare for a move into a FBS (ideally BCS) conference as soon as possible. As someone else already said they have stated that their intention would be to move to FBS in 2016. Might not happen as soon as they'd like but don't discount it out of hand, Charlotte is the 24th ranked media market and growing.

I'd like to go on record as saying that I do not see Charlotte getting into a BCS conference in the next ten years. (Well, granted, for all we know, the BCS conferences may not be the same conferences down the road; there is a stipulation that could force a conference out if its conference champ finishes low in the BCS standings for two or three straight years. That is, the ACC and Big East champs might fall into that category. Meanwhile, with the MWC taking the Pac-10 to the woodshed, it may gain leverage to become a new BCS conference. Who knows? Maybe, just maybe, there will be some sort of FBS playoff in eight or ten years, which would change things a ton for all conferences. But I digress...)

Anyway, Charlotte would have the odds tremendously stacked against them. Using the "large market" argument, you'd expect at worst C-USA membership for FIU and/or FAU. South Florida was an extreme exception--and let's not forget that it doesn't hurt USF to be TWO TIMES UNCC's size, from which they can draw more support.

Market size is important to viewership (and thus, conference affiliation), but it's a distant third behind (1) brand name of the school, and (2) quality of the team. For instance, in the Missouri-Kansas game last year, neither had a big brand-name appeal (compared with, say, OU-Texas), and they're both from small markets. But it was one of the most-watched games of the season b/c it was between two seriously good teams.

Market size matters much, much more in pro sports. College teams can still manage to pack in 100,000 in otherwise small towns like State College, PA and get great TV ratings.

I could see ECU getting into the Big East much more easily than UNCC. They've already proven more on the field and have fanbase already in place. ECU's marketability is not limited just to Greenville. They'd start getting much more Raleigh, G'boro, and Charlotte-based coverage as a BE member. (If you still think ECU is in too small a market, well, they're in the exact situation Virginia Tech of tiny Blacksburg was 20 years ago.) Charlotte would be lucky to be in C-USA (if it's still around) but would likely be Sun Belt-bound.

[IndianaAppMan]

So basically, unless UNCC pulls off the amazing with a once-in-a-lifetime coach like Jim Leavitt, they're in for a very long haul if they expect BCS affiliation.

The BCS conferences are an incredibly, disgustingly exclusive club. Don't even begin to underestimate how unlikely in is for Charlotte (or for that matter App State, for any delusional posters out there) to ever get in a BCS conference. Think about these schools which are NOT BCS: Houston (large school, past Heisman winner, great b-ball history, in 4th largest city), TCU (near all 4 major Texas metros, consistently solid team), San Diego State, BYU (won a national title--and STILL can't get in BCS conference), Utah (in fast-growing Salt Lake City), Memphis (big city, great b-ball), and Southern Miss (who tried in vain for 30 years to get into the SEC).

[IndianaAppMan]

If I was the Sun Belt, I would be looking into two former members of the conference in Charlotte and Georgia State. Charlotte and Atlanta to go along with Miami, Nashville, Dallas and New Orleans would be not to bad for the tv contract.

That does make sense, but I think that the Sun Belt may end up being too big for it too keep its members happen. I mean, Denver in the same conference as a Miami school? Those schools are setting themselves up for Hawaii's travel budget.

Since C-USA and the Sun Belt overlap their "footprint," I expect one of them to start leaning more towards the east coast and the other towards Texas. Travel must be especially hard for Marshall and ECU. I'm sure Marshall fans wouldn't mind having a more regional rival like Western Kentucky or Middle Tennessee instead of UTEP or SMU.

But it's all speculation. These things are many years down the road.

[BearsCountry]

I'd like to go on record as saying that I do not see Charlotte getting into a BCS conference in the next ten years. (Well, granted, for all we know, the BCS conferences may not be the same conferences down the road; there is a stipulation that could force a conference out if its conference champ finishes low in the BCS standings for two or three straight years. That is, the ACC and Big East champs might fall into that category. Meanwhile, with the MWC taking the Pac-10 to the woodshed, it may gain leverage to become a new BCS conference. Who knows? Maybe, just maybe, there will be some sort of FBS playoff in eight or ten years, which would change things a ton for all conferences. But I digress...)

Anyway, Charlotte would have the odds tremendously stacked against them. Using the "large market" argument, you'd expect at worst C-USA membership for FIU and/or FAU. South Florida was an extreme exception--and let's not forget that it doesn't hurt USF to be TWO TIMES UNCC's size, from which they can draw more support.

Market size is important to viewership (and thus, conference affiliation), but it's a distant third behind (1) brand name of the school, and (2) quality of the team. For instance, in the Missouri-Kansas game last year, neither had a big brand-name appeal (compared with, say, OU-Texas), and they're both from small markets. But it was one of the most-watched games of the season b/c it was between two seriously good teams.

Market size matters much, much more in pro sports. College teams can still manage to pack in 100,000 in otherwise small towns like State College, PA and get great TV ratings.

I could see ECU getting into the Big East much more easily than UNCC. They've already proven more on the field and have fanbase already in place. ECU's marketability is not limited just to Greenville. They'd start getting much more Raleigh, G'boro, and Charlotte-based coverage as a BE member. (If you still think ECU is in too small a market, well, they're in the exact situation Virginia Tech of tiny Blacksburg was 20 years ago.) Charlotte would be lucky to be in C-USA (if it's still around) but would likely be Sun Belt-bound.

You dont understand tv markets for college sports. Penn State's tv market is not State College. Its the whole state of Pennsylvania. Same with all the major state flagship schools. Missouri and Kansas game - small markets? That would be the Kansas City and St. Louis markets. Both top 30. Virginia Tech has a statewide presecene in Virginia. So Blackburg thing doesnt fly there. Now the smaller the school the more segmented the market is to their geographical area ala East Carolina, though the Pirates have a prescene in Charlotte and Raleigh. Miami, USF and UCF would be in their own respected markets while Florida and Florida State can claim all of Florida. TCU is in Fort Worth so its basically just the Dallas/Fort Worth market only, they have no presecne in Houston or San Antonio.

[BearsCountry]

That does make sense, but I think that the Sun Belt may end up being too big for it too keep its members happen. I mean, Denver in the same conference as a Miami school? Those schools are setting themselves up for Hawaii's travel budget.


Denver will be gone soon. 2011 is the likely date for that.



Since C-USA and the Sun Belt overlap their "footprint," I expect one of them to start leaning more towards the east coast and the other towards Texas. Travel must be especially hard for Marshall and ECU. I'm sure Marshall fans wouldn't mind having a more regional rival like Western Kentucky or Middle Tennessee instead of UTEP or SMU.

But it's all speculation. These things are many years down the road.

No they arent going to do that. The CUSA schools view themselves in higher regard and arent really going to morph into a regional league. Thats a pipedream from Sun Belt fans.

[IndianaAppMan]

You dont understand tv markets for college sports. Penn State's tv market is not State College. Its the whole state of Pennsylvania. Same with all the major state flagship schools. Missouri and Kansas game - small markets? That would be the Kansas City and St. Louis markets. Both top 30. Virginia Tech has a statewide presecene in Virginia. So Blackburg thing doesnt fly there. Now the smaller the school the more segmented the market is to their geographical area ala East Carolina, though the Pirates have a prescene in Charlotte and Raleigh. Miami, USF and UCF would be in their own respected markets while Florida and Florida State can claim all of Florida. TCU is in Fort Worth so its basically just the Dallas/Fort Worth market only, they have no presecne in Houston or San Antonio.

I totally understand TV markets in sports. You missed my argument. I was saying that ECU would be a better fit for the Big East because, as it stands now, they have a presence well outside of little Greenville. They are a more national name than UNCC. It would only increase if they were Big East. Charlotte, though, is not a flagship school, no matter how desperately they want to be. Their TV marketability would struggle to get far outside of North Carolina.

As for Missouri and Kansas, I completely understand that where their major TV markets are based; however, my point was that even though neither has ever been much of a NATIONAL brand, they still got great ratings because people want to watch quality football.

[blackNgold93]

Does anyone know why UNCC isn't considering converting their soccer/track facility into a football (multi-purpose) stadium to start their program? From the little that I've read, one of their biggest concerns is the cost and location of a new stadium. If you look at the campus on Google maps, there is a lot of space to work with. They could easily add stands on the west side of the soccer field and have a nice stadium for a reasonable cost. It sure seems like they have the foundation already in place, right in the middle of the campus. Some people get a red-ass about having a track around the field, personally, I think it is a great parade ground for National Championship trophies. xnodx

Do you think that UNCC is is trying to bypass the growing pains of building a program from the ground up? I believe it would be better for a startup program to sell out a smaller venue than have a mostly empty larger stadium (BOA stadium, Memorial stadium, etc.). It is better to grow the supply to meet the demand than the opposite. Success is the only way to grow demand in sports. It took three national championships and a win over Michigan to get 4,400 seats added to our stadium and we still pack in 50+% above sellout capacity.

Perception is a powerful thing, and in Charlotte it can be the only thing that matters. The motto on the Great Seal of the state of North Carolina (and the seal of Appalachian State University) is Esse quam videri (Latin), To be, rather than to seem. UNCC would be wise to follow that motto and focus on building a first class program first and a first class facility second.

Charlotte is an “instant gratification” city and it appears that if UNCC can’t afford a top level program with a top level facility, then they would rather not have one at all.

[WileECoyote06]

Does anyone know why UNCC isn't considering converting their soccer/track facility into a football (multi-purpose) stadium to start their program? From the little that I've read, one of their biggest concerns is the cost and location of a new stadium. If you look at the campus on Google maps, there is a lot of space to work with. They could easily add stands on the west side of the soccer field and have a nice stadium for a reasonable cost. It sure seems like they have the foundation already in place, right in the middle of the campus. Some people get a red-ass about having a track around the field, personally, I think it is a great parade ground for National Championship trophies. xnodx

Do you think that UNCC is is trying to bypass the growing pains of building a program from the ground up? I believe it would be better for a startup program to sell out a smaller venue than have a mostly empty larger stadium (BOA stadium, Memorial stadium, etc.). It is better to grow the supply to meet the demand than the opposite. Success is the only way to grow demand in sports. It took three national championships and a win over Michigan to get 4,400 seats added to our stadium and we still pack in 50+% above sellout capacity.

Perception is a powerful thing, and in Charlotte it can be the only thing that matters. The motto on the Great Seal of the state of North Carolina (and the seal of Appalachian State University) is Esse quam videri (Latin), To be, rather than to seem. UNCC would be wise to follow that motto and focus on building a first class program first and a first class facility second.

Charlotte is an “instant gratification” city and it appears that if UNCC can’t afford a top level program with a top level facility, then they would rather not have one at all.

Gosh I've been trying to describe Charlotte as a city, and that is the PERFECT description.

[texcap]

At quick glance I did not see this posted elsewhere. If it was, my apologies:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/104/story/199771.html

In short the alumni must raise $5,000,000 in $1,000 chucks in 6 months to get this thing done. Possible? Yes. Difficult? Yes.

In my opinion this is a politically correct way of allowing the Chancellor to say that I don't want football, but I don't want to make this difficult decision, so I will let the alumni's see if they can get this thing done. xsmiley_wix

[Appstate29]

we will see if they can fill the coffers! I can't offer a guess either way/

[Appinator]

Since C-USA and the Sun Belt overlap their "footprint," I expect one of them to start leaning more towards the east coast and the other towards Texas. Travel must be especially hard for Marshall and ECU. I'm sure Marshall fans wouldn't mind having a more regional rival like Western Kentucky or Middle Tennessee instead of UTEP or SMU.

If you asked any Thundering Turd fan if they would want to make such a move, they would laugh in your face and then attempt to throw D-cell batteries at your head.

They view the C-USA as phase number two of their BCS ascension. Phase one was to dominate the MAC and move on, which they did. They just didn't plan on getting caught for all of their illegal recruiting practices in the process.

[yosef1969]

I totally understand TV markets in sports. You missed my argument. I was saying that ECU would be a better fit for the Big East because, as it stands now, they have a presence well outside of little Greenville. They are a more national name than UNCC. It would only increase if they were Big East. Charlotte, though, is not a flagship school, no matter how desperately they want to be. Their TV marketability would struggle to get far outside of North Carolina.

As for Missouri and Kansas, I completely understand that where their major TV markets are based; however, my point was that even though neither has ever been much of a NATIONAL brand, they still got great ratings because people want to watch quality football.

TV markets are more important in college sports than you apparently think. It's about the footprint of the TV coverage. Why do you think the ACC wanted Syracuse over VaTech? (it would have been Syracuse if UVA hadn't held a knife to the throat of expansion) or why the Big East reaches down to USF when the closest conference foe for them is WVU?

It's about reaching as many people as possible, and in that light UNCC would be a far better fit for the Big East at this point. The Greenville market doesn't offer anything to a major conference in terms of viewers and ECU's fanbase is limited to eastern NC.

UNCC may not offer more in terms of fans but a spot on TV in the 24th largest market in the US is a good bargaining chip to start with. All you really need to ask yourself is this, when the conference goes into negotiations for a TV contract which market would you rather go in with, Greenville or Charlotte?

I've stated this before but I strongly believe that the conferences will experience a major shake up in 5-10 changing the landscape entirely and all of this will be a moot point.

[WUTNDITWAA]

TV markets are more important in college sports than you apparently think. It's about the footprint of the TV coverage. Why do you think the ACC wanted Syracuse over VaTech? (it would have been Syracuse if UVA hadn't held a knife to the throat of expansion) or why the Big East reaches down to USF when the closest conference foe for them is WVU?

It's about reaching as many people as possible, and in that light UNCC would be a far better fit for the Big East at this point. The Greenville market doesn't offer anything to a major conference in terms of viewers and ECU's fanbase is limited to eastern NC.

UNCC may not offer more in terms of fans but a spot on TV in the 24th largest market in the US is a good bargaining chip to start with. All you really need to ask yourself is this, when the conference goes into negotiations for a TV contract which market would you rather go in with, Greenville or Charlotte?

I've stated this before but I strongly believe that the conferences will experience a major shake up in 5-10 changing the landscape entirely and all of this will be a moot point.

The folks in Richmond held said knife to UVA first.

[IndianaAppMan]

TV markets are more important in college sports than you apparently think. It's about the footprint of the TV coverage. Why do you think the ACC wanted Syracuse over VaTech? (it would have been Syracuse if UVA hadn't held a knife to the throat of expansion) or why the Big East reaches down to USF when the closest conference foe for them is WVU?

It's about reaching as many people as possible, and in that light UNCC would be a far better fit for the Big East at this point. The Greenville market doesn't offer anything to a major conference in terms of viewers and ECU's fanbase is limited to eastern NC.

UNCC may not offer more in terms of fans but a spot on TV in the 24th largest market in the US is a good bargaining chip to start with. All you really need to ask yourself is this, when the conference goes into negotiations for a TV contract which market would you rather go in with, Greenville or Charlotte?

ECU's TV market, as a member of the Big East, would not be limited to Greenville any more than Virginia Tech is limited to Blacksburg. Heck, when ECU played WVU and Va. Tech, both games were broadcast nationally. ECU would gain a much larger share of the Triangle & Triad's viewing market, plus they have a fanbase already in place. UNCC, as of right now, has virtually nothing but projections.


I've stated this before but I strongly believe that the conferences will experience a major shake up in 5-10 changing the landscape entirely and all of this will be a moot point.

I think most of the power conferences will be stable. The Big Ten may add Rutgers, Pitt, or Mizzou. The Big East may force a big trickle-down effect, though.

[MoreheadEagle]

UNCC would probably have to go the path of USF. Start small and try to quickly build up to BCS level. It's probably not that hard for them to play in the Carolina Panther's stadium like USF and TSU does. If the students want a football team then go for it.

[SuperJon]

People outside of North Carolina don't realize how big of a following ECU has. East of Raleigh is primarily Pirate Land. Yes, there are fans of other schools, but ECU has a much larger fan base than people realize.

[yosef1969]

People outside of North Carolina don't realize how big of a following ECU has. East of Raleigh is primarily Pirate Land. Yes, there are fans of other schools, but ECU has a much larger fan base than people realize.

I live in NC and I'm not doubting their fanbase, and it's a growing fanbase but still not as attractive television market wise as Charlotte would be.

IndianaAppman, you made my point for me. VA TECH was not the first choice of the ACC. They wanted Syracuse not the Hokies because they didn't bring enough to the table in terms of TV but getting Boston College and the Boston market was worth it. UVA threatened to kill the whole expansion plan unless Va Tech was one of the new additions.

[IndianaAppMan]

I live in NC and I'm not doubting their fanbase, and it's a growing fanbase but still not as attractive television market wise as Charlotte would be.

IndianaAppman, you made my point for me. VA TECH was not the first choice of the ACC. They wanted Syracuse not the Hokies because they didn't bring enough to the table in terms of TV but getting Boston College and the Boston market was worth it. UVA threatened to kill the whole expansion plan unless Va Tech was one of the new additions.

I get your point; however, despite its location, UNCC does not bring the same things to the table television-wise that Syracuse does. Syracuse has a rich b-ball tradition and, until the past five years or so, a Top 25 football tradition. UNCC: nada.

Until UNCC proves me otherwise by actually building an FBS-size stadium, winning more basketball games (and the ratings that come with them), and winning on the field, I anticipate UNCC to look more like FIU or FAU at best, rather than USF. FIU and FAU also have a much higher enrollment than many people realize (upper 20's to mid 30's). USF is the exception, not the rule.

[SuperJon]

I wasn't saying ECU was better for tv than UNCC, just that people gravely underestimate their fan base.

[yosef1969]

I get your point; however, despite its location, UNCC does not bring the same things to the table television-wise that Syracuse does. Syracuse has a rich b-ball tradition and, until the past five years or so, a Top 25 football tradition. UNCC: nada.

Until UNCC proves me otherwise by actually building an FBS-size stadium, winning more basketball games (and the ratings that come with them), and winning on the field, I anticipate UNCC to look more like FIU or FAU at best, rather than USF. FIU and FAU also have a much higher enrollment than many people realize (upper 20's to mid 30's). USF is the exception, not the rule.

Actually the point is that the quality of the athletics program doesn't matter in the least in this scenario, it's about the potential viewers, numbers of tv's the conference is exposed to. Of course USF is the exception but I honestly believe that UNCC is closer to that exception than many may realize.

I have to think that the Big East would strongly consider jumping into a market where it only has to compete with the mediocre ACC for attention.

Just my xtwocentsx .