Sioux nickname basically gone, NDSU next?

[darell1976]

Watch out NDSU you may be next if the NCAA takes this seriously.


Joe Abbot, Lame Deer, Mont., Letter to the editor: NDSU should also change its mascot

Published Monday, September 08, 2008
· advertisement ·


All the stories, all the talk and all the controversy over UND’s “Fighting Sioux” moniker.

As an Indian (or “Native American,” which is the popular title in today’s soft world) I find much more offense in NDSU’s “Bison” mascot. The buffalo was sacred to my people; it was our food, our shelter, our religion and it was life itself.

How dare a white man’s university take our deity and make it a sports team mascot?

NDSU should change its mascot name out of respect to an animal the Great Spirit gave to my people.

He is not a sports mascot, he is not a marketing gimmick to make wealthy people richer. The buffalo is above today’s corrupt commercial world.

He is not an asset to be exploited; he is an icon to be cherished and respected.

[PantherRob82]

That is stupid. I worship Daniel Boone so App St needs to change their mascot. The mountaineer isn't just some goofy alcoholic old guy with a rifle. It stands for my lord and savior Daniel Boone and his coon skin cap.

[darell1976]

That is stupid. I worship Daniel Boone so App St needs to change their mascot. The mountaineer isn't just some goofy alcoholic old guy with a rifle. It stands for my lord and savior Daniel Boone and his coon skin cap.


Just proves that PC has gone too far.xmadx

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Someone looked up the name of the guy and it doesn't exist in Lame Deer, MT.

Sounds like a fake letter...or maybe a Sue fanxthumbsupx xthumbsupx

[TonkaBison]

Sorry but this is another futile and lame attempt by the Fargo Forum to stir up a little controversy in hopes of better circulation. Nothing more needs to be said than that. Thread dead, goodbye!

[Thundar]

Umm, why even keep spreading thisxcoffeex

[ASUMountaineer]

If it is true where is his outrage at Notre Dame? Not to mention Oklahoma State, all those cowboys used to shoot us indians. xlolx If it is real, what a joke.

[Touchdown Yosef]

They should expand their fight to the The Colorado Buffalos as well as the Buffalo Bills, or perhaps the whole city of Buffalo.

[TonkaBison]

That's it you Mountaineers have gone too far. We are going to steal your beloved statues and move them to NDSU where they must endure an eternal effort to try and capture the mighty Bison.

How I have lowered myself to endure the mockery of the AGS community just to endure Fargo Forum circulation efforts I will never know.

[McNeese75]

Just proves that PC has gone too far.xmadx

EXACTLY!!!!! xnodx

[93henfan]

Did Indians eat chicken?

Delaware Fightin' Chemical Site Cleanup Technicians just doesn't have much of a ring to it.

[FCS Go!]

Letter is bogus. No one can find the "author". Some BS job by a UND "Sioux"-nickname supporter.

[griz8791]

Someone looked up the name of the guy and it doesn't exist in Lame Deer, MT.

Sounds like a fake letter...or maybe a Sue fanxthumbsupx xthumbsupx

xpopcornx

[MoreheadEagle]

If the tribe has no problem with it then keep the name. Florida St. worked with the Seminole nation to make their mascot authentic. The only real problem I have is the name redskins and the Cleveland Indians logo. It's just offensive. BTW: I had a cousin that played basketball for the Souix in the mid 90s

[mrklean]

Watch out NDSU you may be next if the NCAA takes this seriously.


Joe Abbot, Lame Deer, Mont., Letter to the editor: NDSU should also change its mascot

Published Monday, September 08, 2008
· advertisement ·


All the stories, all the talk and all the controversy over UND’s “Fighting Sioux” moniker.

As an Indian (or “Native American,” which is the popular title in today’s soft world) I find much more offense in NDSU’s “Bison” mascot. The buffalo was sacred to my people; it was our food, our shelter, our religion and it was life itself.

How dare a white man’s university take our deity and make it a sports team mascot?

NDSU should change its mascot name out of respect to an animal the Great Spirit gave to my people.

He is not a sports mascot, he is not a marketing gimmick to make wealthy people richer. The buffalo is above today’s corrupt commercial world.

He is not an asset to be exploited; he is an icon to be cherished and respected.

It would help if you got endorsed my the local Sioux Tribe. Case in point, FSU Noles!!

[FCS Go!]

About time for this to get moved to the political wing....

[JBB]

This for sure will doom the Nickel trophy. A trophy that time has passed by. Give it up. Its over.

[Retro]

You know what's stupid about all this? Teams pick mascots and nicknames to honor or pay tribute to certain facets of their beginnings or to the life of certain ancestral people in general.. You don't pick a name to offend someone.. Sure some mascots like the cleveland indian's cartoonish mascot seem a bit out of line, but the intent was never to make fun of...

If these ignorant self-righteous people would take a minute to learn the origin and reasoning behind the names chosen, they'd appreciate it more than condemn it...

Maybe the indians/native americans should focus more on combating the alcoholism problem facing many of their tribes?

[FCS Go!]

You know what's stupid about all this? Teams pick mascots and nicknames to honor or pay tribute to certain facets of their beginnings or to the life of certain ancestral people in general.. You don't pick a name to offend someone.. Sure some mascots like the cleveland indian's cartoonish mascot seem a bit out of line, but the intent was never to make fun of...

If these ignorant self-righteous people would take a minute to learn the origin and reasoning behind the names chosen, they'd appreciate it more than condemn it...

Maybe the indians/native americans should focus more on combating the alcoholism problem facing many of their tribes?

Please somebody move this to the Political Wing! Nothing to do with football.

[Syntax Error]

This for sure will doom the Nickel trophy. A trophy that time has passed by. Give it up. Its over.Oh just shut it down JBB. xcoffeex

[darell1976]

Letter is bogus. No one can find the "author". Some BS job by a UND "Sioux"-nickname supporter.

I doubt that. Why would someone support the Sioux name then want the Bison to change there. #1 the person is from Montana so it sounds like a Grizzly fan and #2 it was printed in the FARGO Forum. UND and Sioux fans most likely have nothing to do with this wack job.xmadx

[89Hen]

How have the Washington Redskins been able to hang onto their name?

[darell1976]

How have the Washington Redskins been able to hang onto their name?


Simple...MONEY!!!!!! Same with the Cleveland Indians, Chicago Blackhawks, FSU, Cent. Mich, Utah. It all comes down to money.

[Appstate29]

Simple...MONEY!!!!!! Same with the Cleveland Indians, Chicago Blackhawks, FSU, Cent. Mich, Utah. It all comes down to money.

Not ALWAYS to do with money. UNC-P used to be Pembroke State, and was basically a University with a majority Lumbee Indian population (or a substantial amount), and still does have a large number of Indians as students. They are nicknamed the Braves. When the NCAA told them to change their mascot, they told the NCAA to go to hell, and the Lumbee tribe supported that, but it had nothing to do with money, believe you me when I tell you that neither the tribe nor the University has enough money to throw around, and the Uni wasn't in a position to pay the tribe off, it was just the simple fact that they both respect each other.

[darell1976]

Not ALWAYS to do with money. UNC-P used to be Pembroke State, and was basically a University with a majority Lumbee Indian population (or a substantial amount), and still does have a large number of Indians as students. They are nicknamed the Braves. When the NCAA told them to change their mascot, they told the NCAA to go to hell, and the Lumbee tribe supported that, but it had nothing to do with money, believe you me when I tell you that neither the tribe nor the University has enough money to throw around, and the Uni wasn't in a position to pay the tribe off, it was just the simple fact that they both respect each other.


I think money has something to do with at least the first 3 examples i gave, you telling me Native Americans love the nickname Redskins?? I am surprised they haven't marched on Washington. As for the colleges FSU and other were said to have 1 tribe support them, didn't work for UND who had written support from the Devils Lake Sioux tribe now because of the result of the lawsuit UND needs 2 thats right 2 tribal support well that won't happen and the name will be changed by 2010. But anyway I think the nickname thing is BS especailly the name Bison. Whats next Eagles, Huskies, Mountaineers???

[89Hen]

you telling me Native Americans love the nickname Redskins?? I am surprised they haven't marched on Washington.
That's kinda why I asked that question. I'm just not sure why there hasn't been more stink over it from the NA's. AFAIK they don't get any of Dan Snyder's money.

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

That is stupid. I worship Daniel Boone so App St needs to change their mascot. The mountaineer isn't just some goofy alcoholic old guy with a rifle. It stands for my lord and savior Daniel Boone and his coon skin cap.

Apparently, he was gay too.

http://glbt.appstate.edu/images/pagemaster/yosef_ed_sml.jpg

[PartTime]

Someone looked up the name of the guy and it doesn't exist in Lame Deer, MT.

Sounds like a fake letter...or maybe a Sue fanxthumbsupx xthumbsupx


Read it in the GF Herald this morning, it is dumb and the fact that they cannot find the guy says that maybe this is a fake letter, but why point the finger and blame UND for it?? With what UND went through and is still going through, I wouldn't wish that on any school..........not even NDSU.

[Go Bison]

I am surprised that the Grand Forks Herald ran a story about this. Why is this even news? Kinda like the time when there was that youtube video spoof and the Herald ran that story. Here is the link to today's article:

http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/index.cfm?id=86239&section=News

[Kymermosst]

I take it you guys aren't big on satire. That's what this looks like to me.

Someone is making light of how ridiculous the whole thing is. Just like (I hope) the Daniel Boone statement was.

I'm glad this got posted in the GF Herald, so even more people can look at the whole "people are offended by the mascot" thing and in general see how ludicrous it is.

[aust42]

That's kinda why I asked that question. I'm just not sure why there hasn't been more stink over it from the NA's. AFAIK they don't get any of Dan Snyder's money.

It's been a 16 year court battle. Redskins won the last suit and it's under appeal.

http://wcco.com/sports/redskins.race.lawsuit.2.769797.html

I'm not a big Dan Snyder fan but I loved how he handled the PC liberals who asked him about the "controversial" name when he bought the team. They asked him if he was gonna change the Redskins name. He said "No why should I?" Because it's offensive to Indians. "It's not offensive to me. Next question". He refused to address it again with the media. (at least I never heard him address it again)

[Retro]

We all know how the browns are named after Paul Brown, but most people don't even realize the term redskins was given in honor of one of their first coach.

William Henry "Lone Star" Dietz (1884-1964) was the head coach of the Boston Redskins (now Washington Redskins) of the National Football League.

George Preston Marshall, owner and founder of the franchise, sought to rename the Boston Braves after leaving the stadium they shared with the baseball team of the same name. He chose the name Redskins in honor of Dietz, who claimed to be part Sioux. Dietz also coached at Washington State College, including its only Rose Bowl Game win in 1916, Purdue University, and the University of Wyoming, among other schools. Dietz played at the Carlisle Indian Industrial School of Carlisle, PA, a teammate of Jim Thorpe, under famed coach Pop Warner.

Dietz's Indian heritage was first contested in 1918 by a draft agent for the U.S. Armed Forces during World War I when Dietz registered himself as a "Non-Citizen Indian," as the U.S. Government had not yet acknowledged Native Americans as U.S. citizens at that time.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ec/101_dietz_carlisle.JPG

[Grizaholic17]

I could see the Fighting Sioux controversy, but not so much the buffalo. Anyone could claim the grizzly a roaming spirit the gods delivered. xcoffeex xcoffeex

[darell1976]

I could see the Fighting Sioux controversy, but not so much the buffalo. Anyone could claim the grizzly a roaming spirit the gods delivered. xcoffeex xcoffeex
Don't worry your nickname will be next. Pretty soon all nicknames will be banned. It just doesn't stop.

[93henfan]

Don't worry your nickname will be next. Pretty soon all nicknames will be banned. It just doesn't stop.

Stanford had better watch out. I hear trees and cardinals are pissed.

[soccerguy315]

I think money has something to do with at least the first 3 examples i gave, you telling me Native Americans love the nickname Redskins?? I am surprised they haven't marched on Washington. As for the colleges FSU and other were said to have 1 tribe support them, didn't work for UND who had written support from the Devils Lake Sioux tribe now because of the result of the lawsuit UND needs 2 thats right 2 tribal support well that won't happen and the name will be changed by 2010. But anyway I think the nickname thing is BS especailly the name Bison. Whats next Eagles, Huskies, Mountaineers???

All the tribes in VA didn't care that W&M had 2 feathers on their logo... didn't matter. 2 feathers were "hostile and abusive" towards native americans.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Any team looking for a new nickname I grant you the right to us my name if you like!

[89Hen]

I'm not a big Dan Snyder fan but I loved how he handled the PC liberals who asked him about the "controversial" name when he bought the team.
I'm about as far as you're going to get from a Liberal, but in this case I think they have a point. Redskins in no way can be considered anything but a racial slur IMO. There is nothing proud about it. There is nothing flattering about it. There is no real defense of it other than they've had it for a long time. xcoffeex

[darell1976]

Stanford had better watch out. I hear trees and cardinals are pissed.

They had their named changed once already they were the Indians in the 70's.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Sports illustrated did a poll of native americans asking them if they thought that indian-based mascots were offensive? Well less than half (30-something percent IIRC) said no. That's a pretty thin minority. I wonder if those that are offended actually know what a mascot really is. The crusade against indian mascots, like many things in the PCmovement, is being led by white liberals who think they know what is best for everyone.

By the way, I think that mascots of Michigan State, Southern California, Oklahoma State, UMASS, Central Florida, and Furman make a mockery of my cultural hertage. They should be change mascots!

[EDIT] Here is the poll results...a higher percentage of reservation indians don't like it. No surprise there, they probably don't know what mascots really are.
http://www.mdtechacademy.org/web2002/etubb/SI-Poll.htm

[footballer23]

The "letter to the editor" in the Forum that started this stupid thread was a stupid response to the Sioux nickname controversy. It isn't serious. It was someone angry about what's happening at UND. It was a joke and I'm not real sure why this is even a thread.

[darell1976]

The "letter to the editor" in the Forum that started this stupid thread was a stupid response to the Sioux nickname controversy. It isn't serious. It was someone angry about what's happening at UND. It was a joke and I'm not real sure why this is even a thread.

Do they always print jokes in the Forum?? Just wondering because now there are people within the Indian Studies at UND looking into this and some are agreeing with this person. I saw it on the forum at Siouxsports.com. So it may be a joke but now its got some talk within the Indian community.

[BisonBacker]

This whole thread is absurd. Whether or not the American Indian community were to get on board with this absurd idea (which isn't happening) it won't go anywhere. There is a huge difference between having the name of any race as your mascot and having the name of an animal as your mascot. For those up North trying to push this story it's a pathetic effort to try to drag NDSU down with the Sinking UND logo and name. It's really sad and for those who can't understand why some fans of NDSU want nothing to do with UND here is a perfect example. Trying to displace the critics from UND onto NDSU is a sad attempt at denying the reality that is surrounding the UND logo/name. Not trying to pick at some of the great UND posters on this board either as there are some. It's time to let the name go and if some American Indians want to protest the Bison they better start also boycotting the many other sports teams both pro and college that display any animal as their mascot.

[Retro]

Don't worry your nickname will be next. Pretty soon all nicknames will be banned. It just doesn't stop.

If all these schools that the NCAA targeted banded together and said "NO, We aren't changing our name for your PC agenda", they'd back off eventually, because they can't penalize all these schools and have meaningful championships.. It would kill their credibility and position..

[Seven Would Be Nice]

Is someone Sioux-ing the school? xlolx

Seriously, there would be a list of teams needing to change their names:

Braves, Seminoles, Indians, Chiefs, and a few more.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sports_team_names_and_mascots_derived_from _indigenous_peoples

[Monarch History]

All the tribes in VA didn't care that W&M had 2 feathers on their logo... didn't matter. 2 feathers were "hostile and abusive" towards native americans.

I was disappoined that the previous President of W&M caved to the NCAA. PC gone amok. :(

[darell1976]

This whole thread is absurd. Whether or not the American Indian community were to get on board with this absurd idea (which isn't happening) it won't go anywhere. There is a huge difference between having the name of any race as your mascot and having the name of an animal as your mascot. For those up North trying to push this story it's a pathetic effort to try to drag NDSU down with the Sinking UND logo and name. It's really sad and for those who can't understand why some fans of NDSU want nothing to do with UND here is a perfect example. Trying to displace the critics from UND onto NDSU is a sad attempt at denying the reality that is surrounding the UND logo/name. Not trying to pick at some of the great UND posters on this board either as there are some. It's time to let the name go and if some American Indians want to protest the Bison they better start also boycotting the many other sports teams both pro and college that display any animal as their mascot.


Please tell me what UND has to do with this? The person who came up with this idea is not #1. Living in ND or Grand Forks, #2 a UND student and #3 it was not printed in the GF Herald first (it was the Fargo Forum). So quit blaming UND for someone's assinine idea to have NDSU change their name because the Bison is a sacred animal, and if i offended people by started this thread i apoligize. I am a Sioux fan who hates this PC sh-t and had his elementary, jr. high and high school's nicknamed all changed due to this crap. So i started this thread because i didn't know if Bison fans knew their nickname is being targeted by the PC police. So please don't reply by blaming me for starting this thread or blaming the Sioux for something they surely didn't start.

[I Bleed Purple]

It's all about backing. From what I remember, FSU and the U (that would be Utah) has significant backing from their respective tribes. I know Utah does a lot of work with tribal Utes. A good portion is financial, both in money and scholarships, and I believe there is an agreement about how to properly display the name and proper cultural sensitivity. I've read/heard that UND doesn't have the same relationship with the Sioux as the U does with the Utes and FSU with the Seminoles.

[FCS Go!]

Please tell me what UND has to do with this? The person who came up with this idea is not #1. Living in ND or Grand Forks, #2 a UND student and #3 it was not printed in the GF Herald first (it was the Fargo Forum). So quit blaming UND for someone's assinine idea to have NDSU change their name because the Bison is a sacred animal, and if i offended people by started this thread i apoligize. I am a Sioux fan who hates this PC sh-t and had his elementary, jr. high and high school's nicknamed all changed due to this crap. So i started this thread because i didn't know if Bison fans knew their nickname is being targeted by the PC police. So please don't reply by blaming me for starting this thread or blaming the Sioux for something they surely didn't start.

Hey genius, if the letter is a fake then it is likely that the identity and residence of the sender is fake as well. For all we know you could have sent the letter (or maybe I did it?).

[darell1976]

It's all about backing. From what I remember, FSU and the U (that would be Utah) has significant backing from their respective tribes. I know Utah does a lot of work with tribal Utes. A good portion is financial, both in money and scholarships, and I believe there is an agreement about how to properly display the name and proper cultural sensitivity. I've read/heard that UND doesn't have the same relationship with the Sioux as the U does with the Utes and FSU with the Seminoles.


They have good relations with the people of the tribe too bad the votes are only cast by the tribal council and they don't approve of the nickname.

[Cobblestone]

I think we should change our nickname, mascot and helmet. After all we're exploiting those poor rams. Fordham, you best do the same. xrolleyesx

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

It's all about backing. From what I remember, FSU and the U (that would be Utah) has significant backing from their respective tribes. I know Utah does a lot of work with tribal Utes. A good portion is financial, both in money and scholarships, and I believe there is an agreement about how to properly display the name and proper cultural sensitivity. I've read/heard that UND doesn't have the same relationship with the Sioux as the U does with the Utes and FSU with the Seminoles.

UND has one of the largest NA programs in the country.

Know how many NAs attend FSU...the Seminoles.....less than 50....at one time it was 1...yes 1

It's all about money.......hostile and abusive...my a**

Go to a Sioux hockey game.....native references are treated with the utmost respect......money....all it is.

Plus the NA's on the reservations approve of the name but the NA leadership will come down hard on them for the support.

It is a tiny minority of people, which many are "white" professors on the UND campus...thinking they are still in the 60s with their "protests"......go smoke some more weed....Vietnam is over.

It's too bad 'cus UND uses the name with honor and respect.....change the name and bring this circus to an end.

Fighting Norse...no wait .....I'm 1/2 Norwegian so I am offended.

PC gone way too far. NA have bigger problems on the reservation...this logo is not one of them.

[NoCoDanny]

This topic never gets old...

[darell1976]

Hey genius, if the letter is a fake then it is likely that the identity and residence of the sender is fake as well. For all we know you could have sent the letter (or maybe I did it?).

It was you.xlolx

[LetsGoSioux!]

UND has one of the largest NA programs in the country.

Know how many NAs attend FSU...the Seminoles.....less than 50....at one time it was 1...yes 1

It's all about money.......hostile and abusive...my a**

Go to a Sioux hockey game.....native references are treated with the utmost respect......money....all it is.

Plus the NA's on the reservations approve of the name but the NA leadership will come down hard on them for the support.

It is a tiny minority of people, which many are "white" professors on the UND campus...thinking they are still in the 60s with their "protests"......go smoke some more weed....Vietnam is over.

It's too bad 'cus UND uses the name with honor and respect.....change the name and bring this circus to an end.

Fighting Norse...no wait .....I'm 1/2 Norwegian so I am offended.

PC gone way too far. NA have bigger problems on the reservation...this logo is not one of them.

You pretty much hit it on the head! PC zealots run amuck!

[bincitysioux]

I generally don't chime in on the nickname issue. It is very personal to me as someone who comes from Native American ancestry (not Sioux) and has lived my entire life near one of the largest Sioux reservations in ND. I have never personally come across any Native American who has had a problem with North Dakota's nickname. It only seems to be the tribal politicians who have taken offense to the nickname, only it seems because it is the best way for them to get attention from the media.

It will be a sad day for me, when North Dakota's nickname is retired, but on the other hand it is probably best to sever ties and move on. If the Sioux Indians of North Dakota do not want the honor and prestige that inevitably comes froms being assoicated with the University, then we should not offer them the priveledge of that association.

My biggest problem with this whole issue, though, is the arbitrary way in which the NCAA has implemented the policy. And I don't mean the "namesake approval" loophole which has allowed Florida St. and Utah to keep their names (obtained by paying the tribes royalties from merchandising). Rather, I don't care for the "all the Indians from that tribe no longer exist so they can't object" loophole granted to the Illinois Fighting Illini and San Diego State Aztecs. What kind of message does that send? I also feel it may be more than a cooincidence that all of the schools forced to change their names compete in the FCS division or lower.

I also take issue with the UC-Santa Barbra Gauchos not being on the "Hostile and Abusive List". A Gaucho is a Mexican, and an Indian. Double-minority, doubley hostile and abusive in my book. :o

[BisonBacker]

Please tell me what UND has to do with this? The person who came up with this idea is not #1. Living in ND or Grand Forks, #2 a UND student and #3 it was not printed in the GF Herald first (it was the Fargo Forum). So quit blaming UND for someone's assinine idea to have NDSU change their name because the Bison is a sacred animal, and if i offended people by started this thread i apoligize. I am a Sioux fan who hates this PC sh-t and had his elementary, jr. high and high school's nicknamed all changed due to this crap. So i started this thread because i didn't know if Bison fans knew their nickname is being targeted by the PC police. So please don't reply by blaming me for starting this thread or blaming the Sioux for something they surely didn't start.

FCSGo pretty much covered what I would have said. I don't believe the letter is genuine but either way if you can't see the correlation between the letter being a fake and the possiblity that it was someone just trying to stir the pot from UND then there is no need to go any further. I agree that I don't like the PC crap either but don't blast me for a very valid point I made. It's a definite possibility. I wasn't blaming you if you look at my post I was actually very complimentary of some Sioux fans/poster of which you were one of them. Hmmm maybe I was a little premature.:(

[dakotadan]

The Fargo Forum contacted the person who wrote this and verified their identity... and then threw all of his information away. Now they can't get back in contact with him to get further quotes.

The funniest thing about this is that the Forum will take anyone to court who can't supply them with e-mails that were sent 6+months ago. But yet they can't find the information to an editorial that they plublished in their own newspaper 2 days ago.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/index.cfm?id=86282

The letter ran in the Forum’s sports pages Monday. An editor said he called the telephone number provided by the writer to verify the letter’s authenticity, which is standard letters policy, and a man who identified himself as Joe Abbot confirmed that he wrote the letter. But the original copy of the letter — with the phone number — then was discarded.

But of course, this is just another one of those UND conspiracies. xrolleyesx

[bincitysioux]

But of course, this is just another one of those UND conspiracies. xrolleyesx

Oh........this has Phil Harmeson's name written all over it! xpopcornx ;) xrolleyesx

[BisonBacker]

The Fargo Forum contacted the person who wrote this and verified their identity... and then threw all of his information away. Now they can't get back in contact with him to get further quotes.

The funniest thing about this is that the Forum will take anyone to court who can't supply them with e-mails that were sent 6+months ago. But yet they can't find the information to an editorial that they plublished in their own newspaper 2 days ago.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/index.cfm?id=86282


But of course, this is just another one of those UND conspiracies. xrolleyesx


Yeah right, just the same as the moron sports editor for the forum who is a UND alumni who on a Wyoming sports radio show responded when asked by the hosts of the show if he hoped Wyoming would beat the Bison he said "you could say that". So is it possible that a trumped up BS letter of which now the contact info can't be found could be questioned as to it's legitimacy? I would say yes. Scott Nulph has proved that the Forum's Sports editor has a less then unbiased view. But of course just because it ran in the paper we know it has to be true since everything in news print is automatically true xnonox

[AZBison]

I also take issue with the UC-Santa Barbra Gauchos not being on the "Hostile and Abusive List". A Gaucho is a Mexican, and an Indian. Double-minority, doubley hostile and abusive in my book. :o
I'm kind of nitpicky about these things. Gaucho is not and never has been a Mexican. It's is a term used primarily in Argentina to describe what we Americans would call a cowboy. Or as Wikipedia says:

Gaucho (gaúcho in Portuguese) is a term commonly used to describe residents of the South American pampas, chacos or Patagonian grasslands, found principally in parts of Argentina, Uruguay, Southern Chile and Rio Grande do Sul, the southernmost state of Brazil. In Brazil it is currently used to designate people from the state of Rio Grande do Sul.

The word gaucho could be described as a loose equivalent to the North American "Cowboy". Like the North American word cowboy, Venezuelan or Colombian llanero, or Chilean huaso, or the Mexican vaquero, the term often connotes the 19th century more than the present day; then gauchos made up the majority of the rural population, herding cows and practicing hunting as their main economic activities.

Also, Gaucho was never a term for indigenous people.

[footballdude]

Thats dumb let the names stay they have been there for a long time its tradition and they should let it be.

[darell1976]

FCSGo pretty much covered what I would have said. I don't believe the letter is genuine but either way if you can't see the correlation between the letter being a fake and the possiblity that it was someone just trying to stir the pot from UND then there is no need to go any further. I agree that I don't like the PC crap either but don't blast me for a very valid point I made. It's a definite possibility. I wasn't blaming you if you look at my post I was actually very complimentary of some Sioux fans/poster of which you were one of them. Hmmm maybe I was a little premature.:(


I was blasting you and some others who blame UND for this letter its not like it has UND on the letterhead or the zip code 58202(UND) on the return label. I appreciate you on your points except blaming UND for this whole thing. But here is a question for you and all Bison fans if NDSU were say 0-2 and not ranked would we see this kind of thing? Or is it because NDSU is undefeated and ranked at the top that this crap comes out. But i want to call a truce between us since you are a good person unlike another Bison fan who stirs up crap around here. xpeacex

[BisonBacker]

I was blasting you and some others who blame UND for this letter its not like it has UND on the letterhead or the zip code 58202(UND) on the return label. I appreciate you on your points except blaming UND for this whole thing. But here is a question for you and all Bison fans if NDSU were say 0-2 and not ranked would we see this kind of thing? Or is it because NDSU is undefeated and ranked at the top that this crap comes out. But i want to call a truce between us since you are a good person unlike another Bison fan who stirs up crap around here. xpeacex

I really don't have an answer to that question if they were 0-2. I think the higher the profile of the team the more likely the cheap shots will be taken. My guess was if NDSU had a terrible transition and just wasn't in the news then this kind of thing would never be heard of. Lastly I am very suspect of the Forum's reporting as of late. McFeely seems to enjoy taking cheap shots at NDSU from time to time and as I pointed out the Sports Editor is no fan of NDSU either. Anyway I'm not going to subscribe to the Forum and I hope all NDSU fans who read this will also email the Forum and tell them of their displeasure on how the Sports Editor represented or didn't represent NDSU, Fargo and the State of North Dakota on the Wyoming sports call in show. My boycott of the Forum has nothing to do with this stupid letter to the editor either. I would suspect Sioux fans would do the same thing to the Herald had the reverse happened and I wouldn't blame them.

[darell1976]

I really don't have an answer to that question if they were 0-2. I think the higher the profile of the team the more likely the cheap shots will be taken. My guess was if NDSU had a terrible transition and just wasn't in the news then this kind of thing would never be heard of. Lastly I am very suspect of the Forum's reporting as of late. McFeely seems to enjoy taking cheap shots at NDSU from time to time and as I pointed out the Sports Editor is no fan of NDSU either. Anyway I'm not going to subscribe to the Forum and I hope all NDSU fans who read this will also email the Forum and tell them of their displeasure on how the Sports Editor represented or didn't represent NDSU, Fargo and the State of North Dakota on the Wyoming sports call in show. My boycott of the Forum has nothing to do with this stupid letter to the editor either. I would suspect Sioux fans would do the same thing to the Herald had the reverse happened and I wouldn't blame them.

I don't get the forum since i read my stuff online plus its expensive. Who is McFeely a fan of?? Sounds like a jackass who needs to be fired.

[BisonBacker]

I don't get the forum since i read my stuff online plus its expensive. Who is McFeely a fan of?? Sounds like a jackass who needs to be fired.
He's a Moorhead State Grad and since MSU-Moorhead has been terrible in sports for some time he seems to enjoy taking cheap shots at NDSU. He peppers it from time to time with a decent article but for the most part never has anything good to say about NDSU.

[89Hen]

Thats dumb let the names stay they have been there for a long time its tradition and they should let it be.
HEY! Check it out. The Thunderbirds are in the house! Welcome to the win column. xthumbsupx

[Go Bison]

The best article McFeely has written was the one where he said he was wrong about NDSU going DI. He had written some scathing articles on how big a mistake NDSU was making going DI.

[RabidRabbit]

Simple...MONEY!!!!!! Same with the Cleveland Indians, Chicago Blackhawks, FSU, Cent. Mich, Utah. It all comes down to money.

Professional teams don't have the NCAA telling them what they may name themselves. xnonox xnonox

[TwinTownBisonFan]

Professional teams don't have the NCAA telling them what they may name themselves. xnonox xnonox

I think I have a somewhat unique perspective on this. We banned the UND nickname from our campus when I was in the student senate at NDSU... it was a huge to-do.

here's the rub about Native American mascots

In some places, the tribes and teams have reached agreements:

Florida State
Utah
Chicago Blackhawks
Central Michigan (i believe, but perhaps not)

the rub in the case of UND is that there is no tribal backing for the mascot. everyone familiar with the case understands the reasoning behind UND's refusal to change, and it's the estate of Ralph Engelstad.

I've heard all of the arguments about "pc run amok" etc, etc... but the NCAA has been pretty clear on it, and 99% of the schools who fell under this have changed their mascots... many without a problem.

the absurdity of the letter, which is obviously meant to be satire, is rooted in the long debunked "slippery slope" notion that is perpetuated by name change opponents. The reason some have pointed out that this seems to be from a UND supporter is obvious. It plays to the most oft-cited fallacious arguments.

As has been said more times than I can count... it's time to get over it and move on.

[gr8ness97]

I didnt read all through this, but



What's UND's mascot now???

[darell1976]

I didnt read all through this, but



What's UND's mascot now???

UND has no mascot not since 1993. UND's nickname the Fighting Sioux lost a trial so now the Sioux had 3 years which ends in 2010 so just over 2 years now to get backing from the Spirit Lake Sioux tribe and the Standing Rock Sioux tribe. Both disagree with the name and it will be changed.



What really bugs me overall is when the NCAA made the list saying all these schools were hostile and abusive with their native american nicknames and it should be changed. The first one to complain was Florida State who came out and said they would sue the NCAA, well all of a sudden the NCAA with their tails between their legs said well if you get support you can come off this list then FSU, then Utah, then Cent. Mich came off this list, Bradley went on a 5 year watch list (whatever the hell that means) for their Braves nickname and W&M lost their hostile feathers off their logo but kept the name Tribe. So if the NCAA told FSU in the beginning no exceptions to this rule then things may have gone better but why make a rule then all of a sudden change it without thinking it through.xmadx

[BisonBabe]

What it comes down to is someone will always complain about a nickname/mascot. Who know in 10 years no nicknames will be used it will only be the school name. No mascots either we would not want to offend someone.

[dmksioux]

I think I have a somewhat unique perspective on this. We banned the UND nickname from our campus when I was in the student senate at NDSU... it was a huge to-do.

here's the rub about Native American mascots

In some places, the tribes and teams have reached agreements:

Florida State
Utah
Chicago Blackhawks
Central Michigan (i believe, but perhaps not)

the rub in the case of UND is that there is no tribal backing for the mascot. everyone familiar with the case understands the reasoning behind UND's refusal to change, and it's the estate of Ralph Engelstad.

I've heard all of the arguments about "pc run amok" etc, etc... but the NCAA has been pretty clear on it, and 99% of the schools who fell under this have changed their mascots... many without a problem.

the absurdity of the letter, which is obviously meant to be satire, is rooted in the long debunked "slippery slope" notion that is perpetuated by name change opponents. The reason some have pointed out that this seems to be from a UND supporter is obvious. It plays to the most oft-cited fallacious arguments.

As has been said more times than I can count... it's time to get over it and move on.

This part of your post is not 100% accurate. The nearest tribes, Spirit Lake, most recent resolution states that UND can use the name as long as something positive comes from it. During the trial, the NCAA asked for the Spirit Lake tribe to clarify or draft a new resolution. Their reply was that they had more important issues to work on and were not going to address the issue. Granted this does not mean they gave UND 100% backing to keep the name, but they are allowing that resolution to stand.

I have already resigned to the fact that the name will be changed. It's unfortunate, as I feel as though having UND using the Sioux name does more positive than it does harm. A great majority of people in the US may have never heard of the Sioux people or know what part of the country they are from if it weren't for the Sioux nickname.

[citdog]

I THINK

"JEWLANE" SHOUD CHANGE THEIR MASCOT FROM THE GREEN WAVE TO THE......WAIT FOR IT.....


JEWLANE SCHILOCH MONEY CHANGERS