Harrisonburg Daily News Record: Axing Liberty May Hurt

[BDKJMU]

http://www.dnronline.com/sports_details.php?AID=31103&CHID=3&sub=

One thing the article failed to point out was that a 12th game would only have done JMU if it was a Div I(AA) opponent. A Div II as a 12th game would have been absolutely zero benefit. The committee only considers Div I wins. If I'm correct, you get zero points for beating a Div II, one point for beating a I-AA, and 1 point for playing a I-A, 2 for beating them.

9-3 with a Div II win and 8-3 without a Div II= same. The only CAA team playing a Div II is UD- West Chester. (UMass is playing Bryant who is in transition to I-AA).

Isn't JMU suppose to play @ Liberty next season?

[walliver]

http://www.dnronline.com/sports_details.php?AID=31103&CHID=3&sub=

One thing the article failed to point out was that a 12th game would only have done JMU if it was a Div I(AA) opponent. A Div II as a 12th game would have been absolutely zero benefit. The committee only considers Div I wins. If I'm correct, you get zero points for beating a Div II, one point for beating a I-AA, and 1 point for playing a I-A, 2 for beating them.

9-3 with a Div II win and 8-3 without a Div II= same. The only CAA team playing a Div II is UD- West Chester. (UMass is playing Bryant who is in transition to I-AA).

Isn't JMU suppose to play @ Liberty next season?

I'm having a problem understanding your argument.

The article appears to be talking about Liberty University, a D-I (FCS) school. What is this talk about D-II? Are you talking about a Liberty replacement team?

Second, I have never heard about any "points" system. I especially have never heard of I-A loses counting as a win, or I-A wins counting as two wins.

[aust42]

There is no "point system" the committee tallies up in determining playoff bids.

[Libertine]

Isn't JMU suppose to play @ Liberty next season?

Yes. JMU & Liberty just pushed back the start of the series to '09 and switched where it would start.

[WileECoyote06]

I'm having a problem understanding your argument.

The article appears to be talking about Liberty University, a D-I (FCS) school. What is this talk about D-II? Are you talking about a Liberty replacement team?

Second, I have never heard about any "points" system. I especially have never heard of I-A loses counting as a win, or I-A wins counting as two wins.

He may be getting it mixed up with the old Division II playoff participant selection process.

[89Hen]

Second, I have never heard about any "points" system.

There is no "point system" the committee tallies up in determining playoff bids.

He may be getting it mixed up with the old Division II playoff participant selection process.
One other possibility is BDK may be thinking about the CAA tiebreaker, where if it goes far enough down the tie breakers, there is a point system. I believe it was in play last year, or at least they explained it last year.

[SuperJon]

Liberty and JMU signed a four year deal. It was supposed to start in 08 at JMU and flip every year. When JMU backed out of the 08 game, the two schools kept the contract but had it starting at Liberty in 09.

09 - Liberty
10 - JMU
11 - Liberty
12 - JMU

[danefan]

There is a point system for CAA tie breakers. Its weird and not all FCS games count equally.

Wins over Pioneer teams count less than wins over any other conference. Used to be the same for NEC wins, but that changed last year.

[IndianaAppMan]

I didn't realize that JMU & Liberty are scheduled for a four-game series. I think it makes perfect sense. The schools can't be much more than two hours apart. Nice non-conference matchup xthumbsupx

[SuperJon]

I didn't realize that JMU & Liberty are scheduled for a four-game series. I think it makes perfect sense. The schools can't be much more than two hours apart. Nice non-conference matchup xthumbsupx

I can get there in an hour and a half or so. It's not far at all.

[mcveyrl]

I can get there in an hour and a half or so. It's not far at all.

Yea, I think Liberty is approx. Exit 188 and JMU is Exit 243. Good in-state non-conference series with the potential to be a good rivalry.

I'm going to try and go to games at both sites.

[SuperJon]

Yea, I think Liberty is approx. Exit 188 and JMU is Exit 243. Good in-state non-conference series with the potential to be a good rivalry.

I'm going to try and go to games at both sites.

It's a crappy drive cutting across the mountain on those two lane roads, but the 29/64/81 part is pretty easy.

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

This is the perfect series for both teams. While I enjoyed having the Keydets of VMI come to town, they just were not quite there in terms of talent. Heart - only all of us could wish our teams had the heart that military institutions seems to have (The Citadel, VMI, Army, Navy, etc.).

Liberty is on the rise and will be good for several years. Close game for the fans. Should bring a higher profile to Liberty for playoffs should the beat JMU. Strengthens JMU's OOC without making it overly daunting (see App St.). Well done ADs!

As for the topic, Bourne (JMU's AD) is an idiot for this mistake not getting JMU a 12th game. I believe we'll miss that dearly come playoff selection time. In fact, I see Liberty as a strong candidate to make the field.

[BDKJMU]

I'm having a problem understanding your argument.

The article appears to be talking about Liberty University, a D-I (FCS) school. What is this talk about D-II? Are you talking about a Liberty replacement team?

Second, I have never heard about any "points" system. I especially have never heard of I-A loses counting as a win, or I-A wins counting as two wins.

No. Of course I know Liberty is I-AA. But in the context of finding an opponent for a 12th game, they should have made it clear if not Liberty, then ONLY another I-AA, as a Div II would be of no benefit.

[BDKJMU]

Yea, I think Liberty is approx. Exit 188 and JMU is Exit 243. Good in-state non-conference series with the potential to be a good rivalry.

I'm going to try and go to games at both sites.

Just to point out that Lynchburg isn't right off of I81. But yeah, Lynchburg and Harrisonburg aren't too far.

[BDKJMU]

I stand corrected on the point thing. But even outside of the CAA tiebreaker, I can't see any reason to schedule a Div II. Better to have 11 games than a 12th with a Div II. Just thought the article could have mentioned that when discussing trying to find another opponent.

[WCU LawCat]

Yes. JMU & Liberty just pushed back the start of the series to '09 and switched where it would start.

What is the word on the WCU Liberty games. Is this year the last year?

[BDKJMU]

Liberty and JMU signed a four year deal. It was supposed to start in 08 at JMU and flip every year. When JMU backed out of the 08 game, the two schools kept the contract but had it starting at Liberty in 09.

09 - Liberty
10 - JMU
11 - Liberty
12 - JMU

Then I take it it was originaly set as:
08'-JMU
09'Liberty
10'-JMU
11'-Liberty

Before the 08' game was dropped completely I wonder if JMU asked Liberty if they were willing to flip 08' and 09' so 08' would have been at Liberty and 09' at JMU? That would have given Liberty an extra game this season, the game wouldn't have been played at JMU when students were initially scheduled to be on fall break, JMU would have had a 12th game and still 6 at home, and 09' as long as JMU got a 12th game, they still probably could have had 6 at home.

[GannonFan]

I stand corrected on the point thing. But even outside of the CAA tiebreaker, I can't see any reason to schedule a Div II. Better to have 11 games than a 12th with a Div II. Just thought the article could have mentioned that when discussing trying to find another opponent.


Well, except for that whole argument of money that can be made off of a 12th game, even against a DII team. With UD making almost $500k everytime they play West Cheser, that's a pretty nice reason to have a 12th game. And before you run out that tired excuse of teams playing too often in a 12 game schedule and they need that extra week off, UD's 2003 team didn't look winded at all come playoff time after playing a 12 game schedule, including the game against West Chester where UD pocketed half a mil.

How many sports did JMU cut again just a few years ago for lack of funding and Title IX? xcoffeex

[BDKJMU]

Well, except for that whole argument of money that can be made off of a 12th game, even against a DII team. With UD making almost $500k everytime they play West Cheser, that's a pretty nice reason to have a 12th game. And before you run out that tired excuse of teams playing too often in a 12 game schedule and they need that extra week off, UD's 2003 team didn't look winded at all come playoff time after playing a 12 game schedule, including the game against West Chester where UD pocketed half a mil.

How many sports did JMU cut again just a few years ago for lack of funding and Title IX? xcoffeex

I'm just saying, if you're gonna play a 12th, try to make it a I-AA. UD could replace that West Chester game every year with a home game vs another I-AA and still get the 500k. Just have to pay off other teams.

[IaaScribe]

What is the word on the WCU Liberty games. Is this year the last year?

Yes. Return of Western Carolina's trip to Lynchburg in 2006.

Set to make my first trip to Cullowhee next week ...

[GannonFan]

I'm just saying, if you're gonna play a 12th, try to make it a I-AA. UD could replace that West Chester game every year with a home game vs another I-AA and still get the 500k. Just have to pay off other teams.

And UD eventually will - but in 28 years in I-AA/FCS, UD's played a DII every year and never has playing a DII kept UD from making the playoffs (heck, UD lost to West Chester twice in that span and still made the playoffs that year). And with the playoffs expanding, that doesn't appear to be in jeopardy anytime soon. And to be honest, West Chester is better year in and year out than many FCS teams UD could play (including that one just south of Newark). Do you think Bloomsburg was a little better in terms of quality than NC Central?

[URMite]

And UD eventually will - but in 28 years in I-AA/FCS, UD's played a DII every year and never has playing a DII kept UD from making the playoffs (heck, UD lost to West Chester twice in that span and still made the playoffs that year). And with the playoffs expanding, that doesn't appear to be in jeopardy anytime soon. And to be honest, West Chester is better year in and year out than many FCS teams UD could play (including that one just south of Newark). Do you think Bloomsburg was a little better in terms of quality than NC Central?

A Div II works fine for UD because of attendance. Otherwise the revenue might not be enough to be worth it and playoff consideration might be reduced if you were 8-3 with a Div II.

If a team has under 10K attendance and are in an area where enough FCS teams are available, I think they should avoid Div II teams.