An article about Ivy League football

[bonarae]

Where it's about the game, not the money...

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08237/906623-449.stm


NEW HAVEN, Conn. -- College football is a multibillion-dollar business. Television networks pay the Bowl Championship Series conferences millions of dollars to broadcast their games on an annual basis. Record attendance figures are being set every year as the biggest stadiums in the world are expanded. And merchandising sales continue to go through the roof as fans adorn themselves in their school's colors.

The sport has never enjoyed more popularity as a new season gets under way in earnest this week. As a result, it's easy to forget the first word of this country's Saturday fall pastime:

College.

Something positive about the Ivy League what others have overlooked at or have moved on from. Note the basic principles of the Ivy League when you go deeper into the article, it's how laid-back we are towards sports... xcoffeex

[Green26]

Nice article. Amateur sports should be about the game, and one's love it, and not about money. It's not that way anymore at most colleges--except in the Ivies, sorta the Patriot league, the D-III's and some of the other lower level schools.

I support the abolition of athletic scholarhips--but of course would retain scholarships based on need. That way students would be more likely to choose their colleges based on the school, and not based on the scholarship and football program.

I love sports, including college sports. I played college football (in the Ivies). Nevertheless, I believe college sports is overwhelming academics at many schools. That is neither right, nor healthy.

I also recognize that few would agree with me, and athletic scholarships will never be abolished.

[Ivytalk]

Well done piece. Interesting to see it in a Pittsburgh paper, where the top 3 football topics are probably the Steelers, Penn State, and getting rid of Dave Wannstedt at Pitt.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Nice article. Amateur sports should be about the game, and one's love it, and not about money. It's not that way anymore at most colleges--except in the Ivies, sorta the Patriot league, the D-III's and some of the other lower level schools.

I support the abolition of athletic scholarhips--but of course would retain scholarships based on need. That way students would be more likely to choose their colleges based on the school, and not based on the scholarship and football program.

I love sports, including college sports. I played college football (in the Ivies). Nevertheless, I believe college sports is overwhelming academics at many schools. That is neither right, nor healthy.

I also recognize that few would agree with me, and athletic scholarships will never be abolished.

*choking on coffee*

Please, PLEASE don't call the Patriot League and Ivies "lower level schools"... and for God's sakes don't call us D-III!!!!!! At the end of last year Harvard would have taken out a good portion of the teams that made the playoffs.

Furthermore, with the new Ivy aid polices, the line between "athletic scholarships" and "need-based aid" - at H-Y-P, anyway - is so blurred as to be insignificant.

[FCS Go!]

*choking on coffee*

Please, PLEASE don't call the Patriot League and Ivies "lower level schools"... and for God's sakes don't call us D-III!!!!!! At the end of last year Harvard would have taken out a good portion of the teams that made the playoffs.

Furthermore, with the new Ivy aid polices, the line between "athletic scholarships" and "need-based aid" - at H-Y-P, anyway - is so blurred as to be insignificant.

I think he was listing all categories of college-first schools,not listing the characteristics & members of D-III.

[401ks]

Nice article. Amateur sports should be about the game, and one's love it, and not about money. It's not that way anymore at most colleges--except in the Ivies, THE PIONEER LEAGUE, sorta the Patriot league, the D-III's and some of the other lower level schools.

I support the abolition of athletic scholarhips--but of course would retain scholarships based on need. That way students would be more likely to choose their colleges based on the school, and not based on the scholarship and football program.

I love sports, including college sports. I played college football (in the Ivies). Nevertheless, I believe college sports is overwhelming academics at many schools. That is neither right, nor healthy.

I also recognize that few would agree with me, and athletic scholarships will never be abolished.

Corrected it for you.

And for the record, as a parent of a student/athlete who passed on athletic scholarship offers in order to attend the university of his choice, I agree with you.

[Green26]

Lehigh, reading comprehension? No big deal. You are forgiven. Thanks to FCS, as well as to 401ks. And 401ks, my daughter leaves for Dartmouth tomorrow morning for her frosh year, and pre-season rugby practice. What sport does your son or daughter play? I leave in the morning for the UM v. Cal Poly game.

I'm sure some of the (older) Yale, and other Ivy, grads recall a Sports Illustrated article from a number of year ago, entitled something like "The Last All-American". It was about qb Brian Dowling '70 (?) of Yale. Terrrific article. Very much on the money. There were many others like him--during his era, before his time, and after his time.

Out of curiousity, do any of you Yale guys know where Dowling is now?

[401ks]

Thanks to FCS, as well as to 401ks. And 401ks, my daughter leaves for Dartmouth tomorrow morning for her frosh year, and pre-season rugby practice. What sport does your son or daughter play?

You're welcome.

My son is a freshman at Butler, and plays football.

[Cobblestone]

Lehigh, reading comprehension? No big deal. You are forgiven. Thanks to FCS, as well as to 401ks. And 401ks, my daughter leaves for Dartmouth tomorrow morning for her frosh year, and pre-season rugby practice. What sport does your son or daughter play? I leave in the morning for the UM v. Cal Poly game.

I'm sure some of the (older) Yale, and other Ivy, grads recall a Sports Illustrated article from a number of year ago, entitled something like "The Last All-American". It was about qb Brian Dowling '70 (?) of Yale. Terrrific article. Very much on the money. There were many others like him--during his era, before his time, and after his time.

Out of curiousity, do any of you Yale guys know where Dowling is now?


I'm not a Yale guy and I don't know where Dowling is now but I remember when he was a backup QB for the Patriots.

[Cobblestone]

In a way I give the Ivy League credit for staying back in time, if you will. Although I do think they should enter the FCS playoff picture. If nothing else it would give the players something more to play for than the Ivy League Championship. In this day and age it is refreshing to see any college football (or any sport for that matter) which is not used as an advertising tool for various products. I've been to some D-III games and I think they're great; football in its purest form.

Ivy League football is also pretty high caliber. They've put their fair share of players in the NFL. I've seen some Ivy League players who could have easily played at any FBS football factory school they wanted to but they put education above football.

Having been to a few Ivy League games at Brown, I have to say that going to an Ivy game is really like no other. Where else can you see men in suits and ties sipping champagne in the tailgate area next to a BMW? And in November see women with fur coats. It's a very different kind of football experience to say the least. As for the games themselves, they're pretty damn good. One nice thing about the Ivy League is the league is over 100 years old so these teams have played each other 100 plus times, thus making every game a rivalry.

My advice to anyone who has been to an Ivy game is to go...it's quite an experience.

[Bull Fan]

Will read this article shortly, but let me join the love-in for the Ivy and Patriot Leagues.

I'm a confused football fan- I absolutely love the game, but hate the oversaturation of coverage... even though it enables me to quench my thirst. I'm starting to fade away from caring at all about the NFL, since it's about cap space, contracts and how an owner and the league in general can maximize it's revenue, and protect their assets- the players. Blah.

Take me to the game that will host 20K fans at most (a Delaware or Montana), where the fans have a true buy-in (alums, or their kids play for the schools) and where we can look forward to the annual rivalry games that define success or failure for a team in that given year. To me, Patriot and Ivy fit that to the T.

Both conferences are steeped in tradition, and we watch as future leaders duke it out 11 on 11. They bust their tails not for the chance at a life-changing contract after graduating (or perhaps not graduating!), but they do so knowing that this is more or less a true extra-curricular activity in the grand scheme of their lives.

I'll never attend a football game under the knot of a tie, nor will my wife ever show up in a fur, and God knows I'm never going to sip champagne at a tailgate beside my car... but I love that it happens for some of these schools. All part of the trappings that make the "small ball" experience the truest, most innocent form of football after high school ball.

[bulldog10jw]

Out of curiousity, do any of you Yale guys know where Dowling is now?

The last I heard, and this was quite a while ago ( 6 or 7 years maybe ) Dowling and Calvin Hill were in some kind of a college sports related cable TV venture.

[Redwyn]

I always found Ivy League athletics interesting. It is quite noble to play for the love of the game, not for the lust for a future contract. However, we should not go so far as to say that no athlete in the Ivy League is playing there after spurning financial benefits, or that the Ivy League is unconcerned as to their national standing.

We should remember the scandal that Harvard basketball broke earlier this year, when it was found that not only were admissions standards lowered for recruits, but tactics by Harvard staff were deemed borderline NCAA infractions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/02/sports/ncaabasketball/02harvard.html?pagewanted=1&ref=sports

This is not atypical of the Ivy League. As noted earlier in this thread, while scholarships are not given for athletics, the school, as a private school can, selectively "waives" parts of an athlete's tuition, calling it financial aid. Several Ice Hockey and Lacrosse players from my High School were brought in under these guidelines.

Despite all this, I must agree, the Ivy and Patriot Leagues are indeed noble symbols of athletics at its purest. Sometimes one has to go against his morals for the sake of success, but, regardless, the true intent must be noted.

[terrierbob]

I would love to attend a Harvard-Yale game. I view the Ivies as national treasures.

[bonarae]

Something relevant to the first article (probably this document is where the basic rules stated in the article is sourced):

http://www.archives.upenn.edu/histy/features/imagepenn/ivy1954.pdf

That may summarize the reason why the Ivies are totally different from the other FCS/FBS conferences. Although impractical in today's world, that's where tradition steps in. xcoffeex