More discussion on MEAC schools joining the Big South

[bosshogg]

http://www.meacfans.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi/ubb/get_topic/f/43/t/007428.html?

[# 1 BearBooster]

I believe the MEAC and other HBCU conferences will one day go the way of the defunct Negro Baseball Leagues. The existence of these conferences are a hold over from the days of segregation. The dissolution will take the courage of a number of presidents (HBCU and others). It is my belief the eventual amalgamation of teams that comprise the MEAC and other HBCU conferences with other conferences will greatly enhance diverse recruitment and coaching staffs in all sports. This will benefit the advancement of intercollegiate athletics and American society in general. (The sooner we do away with the so-called white/black thing the better.)

[TexasTerror]

What would happen to the SWAC? Thoughts?

[dbackjon]

I believe the MEAC and other HBCU conferences will one day go the way of the defunct Negro Baseball Leagues. The existence of these conferences are a hold over from the days of segregation. The dissolution will take the courage of a number of presidents (HBCU and others). It is my belief the eventual amalgamation of teams that comprise the MEAC and other HBCU conferences with other conferences will greatly enhance diverse recruitment and coaching staffs in all sports. This will benefit the advancement of intercollegiate athletic and American society in general. (The sooner we do away with the so-called white/black thing the better.)

Good stuff - I agree this would be good.

[# 1 BearBooster]

I am talking about all conferences (SWAC) included. I know there will be screaming at this idea from so-called race puriest on both sides of the fence. I believe the amalgamation will happen someday. If we're ever going to get beyond this so-called white/black thing it's our only hope.

[TexasTerror]

Where would the SWAC find their fit? SLC is now too large. C-USA is full and Sun Belt could be an option for some, but not all...

[# 1 BearBooster]

Texas Terror: It may take the re-structure of a number of conferences. I believe some 1-AA football programs and 1-A athletic programs are not economically viable now. Attrition of some schools participation in this level of intercollegiate athletics in the not too distant future will sort this problem out.

[OL FU]

Who is the OL FU poster imposter? :)

I think the dissolution will be difficult. Some of it may be from a racial stanpoint, but also important is old alliances and rivalries are difficult to relinquish. But I do believe the best way to speed it along would be the MEAC dropping the playoffs for a MEAC - SWAC Champtionship. At least I hope the MEAC does not let that happen.

[# 1 BearBooster]

OL FU: I agree with some of what you say. I too hope todays MEAC schools remain a partof the NCAA 1-AA Football Championship playoff.

Although we're 40 plus years away from the epic era of America's attempt to right racial injustice through federal and state legislation, I believe the issue of America becoming one fully just society is going to take more courage than fighting waterhoses, police dogs and ignorance on both sides.

I believe FAMU's failed attempt to bolt the MEAC and go D-1A had everybit as much to do with the school's chief administrator and AD at the time trying to advance beyond the narrow frame of race. Unfortunately, their effort was poorly planned and illconceived at the time.

Will it be easy? No. We new rivalries form? Yes. Will some old rivalries still exist? Yes. Believe me we'll all be better people for it.

[OL FU]

OL FU: I agree with some of what you say. I too hope todays MEAC schools remain a partof the NCAA 1-AA Football Championship playoff.

Although we're 40 plus years away from the epic era of America's attempt to right racial injustice through federal and state legislation, I believe the issue of America becoming one fully just society is going to take more courage than fighting waterhoses, police dogs and ignorance on both sides.

I believe FAMU's failed attempt to bolt the MEAC and go D-1A had everybit as much to do with the school's chief administrator and AD at the time trying to advance beyond the narrow frame of race. Unfortunately, their effort was poorly planned and illconceived at the time.

Will it be easy? No. We new rivalries form? Yes. Will some old rivalries still exist? Yes. Believe me we'll all be better people for it.


I agree, also. As we have learned, old habits and perceptions good and bad ones are hard to break.

[Cocky]

Some of the SWAC would fit better into the OVC. Alabama A&M and AL State

[txstatebobcat]

Texas Terror: It may take the re-structure of a number of conferences. I believe some 1-AA football programs and 1-A athletic programs are not economically viable now. Attrition of some schools participation in this level of intercollegiate athletics in the not too distant future will sort this problem out.

I agree with you on this one. However, its going to be a slow process. Pride gets to much in the way for schools to drop a level or two.

[henfan]

Bear Booster, I fully agree and sincerely hope you're right about the future integration of the HBCUs with other D-I conferences. The fact that Hampton and Delaware State have expressed some interest in possibly moving out of the MEAC speaks to that point. It would also be interesting to see non-HBCUs move into the MEAC and SWAC at some point. If it does happen, it'll be a win-win for all involved in D-I spsorts, particularly if it can be done in a way that does not detract from the great existing traditional regional rivalries.

It'll be interesting to follow HBCUs' continued evolution in the new century. We in Delaware are experiencing a battle royale being waged between some DSU alums and local African-American leaders with the CEO and Board of Trustees over what is perceived as the movement away from the school's mission as an HBCU.

[AppGuy04]

Maybe someone has pointed this out already, but why would the MEAC go to the Big South, when currently, or atleast in football, the largest revenue sport, they are the better conference of the two

[jstate83]

What would happen to the SWAC? Thoughts?

Believe Bearbooster if you want........................The SWAC ain't going nowhere.

If any SWAC school leaves, you can believe it WON'T be for another 1-AA conference...................doing that just don't make sense. ;)

[jstate83]

I am talking about all conferences (SWAC) included. I know there will be screaming at this idea from so-called race puriest on both sides of the fence. I believe the amalgamation will happen someday. If we're ever going to get beyond this so-called white/black thing it's our only hope.

Dude .........................Do you honestly think people go to HBCU's because of a damm football/sports team? :mad:

[gophoenix]

I think the dissolution will be difficult. Some of it may be from a racial stanpoint, but also important is old alliances and rivalries are difficult to relinquish. But I do believe the best way to speed it along would be the MEAC dropping the playoffs for a MEAC - SWAC Champtionship. At least I hope the MEAC does not let that happen.

I know MEAC members A&T, SC State, and Hampton are the more prevalent members that are consider, if nto actively, leaving.

[AppGuy04]

Dude .........................Do you honestly think people go to HBCU's because of a damm football/sports team? :mad:

then, pray tell, why do they go there?

[TexasTerror]

No one would go into SWAC from outside because they lack a legitimate shot at the playoffs...

Also, it's no RPI boost at all in just about every sport compared to any other conference (and I doubt the SWAC would let someone to come in that could win all their sports) and traveling stinks within the conference compared to other alternatives...

[jstate83]

OH lord APPguy.......................just to humor you. :rolleyes:

How about family ties ................(I know that's a strange concept.)
How bout going where you feel comfortable.....................(another strange concept).
How about going because IT'S WHERE THA F WE WANT TO BE.

Nobody questions where YOU wanted to go, so why do you feel WE have to justify to YOU where WE go. :cool:

[jstate83]

No one would go into SWAC from outside because they lack a legitimate shot at the playoffs...



How bout NONE .....................we don't participate in the playoff's. ;)

This is ya'll's argument.

Let the MEAC and the other conferences battle it out for WHO MAYBE GOING TO WHAT CONFERENCE. :o

[AppGuy04]

OH lord APPguy.......................just to humor you. :rolleyes:

How about family ties ................(I know that's a strange concept.)
How bout going where you feel comfortable.....................(another strange concept).
How about going because IT'S WHERE THA F WE WANT TO BE.

Nobody questions where YOU wanted to go, so why do you feel WE have to justify to YOU where WE go. :cool:

why are you getting defensive? maybe you should calm down. i know exactly what you are talking about. i graduated from nc state for my undergrad. the reason i went there is b/c i had been a part of the school as a ball boy for basketball games as a child and my uncle graduated from there, so the family ties and feeling comfortable i know very well, as far as the last couple of statements, take a chill pill

[TigerFan17]

OH lord APPguy.......................just to humor you. :rolleyes:

How about family ties ................(I know that's a strange concept.)
How bout going where you feel comfortable.....................(another strange concept).
How about going because IT'S WHERE THA F WE WANT TO BE.

Nobody questions where YOU wanted to go, so why do you feel WE have to justify to YOU where WE go. :cool:


My word...someone needs to chill out. :eek: No ones attacking you. :confused:

[jstate83]

why are you getting defensive? maybe you should calm down. i know exactly what you are talking about. i graduated from nc state for my undergrad. the reason i went there is b/c i had been a part of the school as a ball boy for basketball games as a child and my uncle graduated from there, so the family ties and feeling comfortable i know very well, as far as the last couple of statements, take a chill pill

So why did you end you last statement to me with a sarcastic ..............

"then, pray tell, why do they go there".....................If you already knew the answer.

What did you expect the answer to be? Looks like it was no different from why you went to your choice of schools.

And as far as the last couple of statements ....................

Tell me why you agree with BEARBOOSTER and think it should be the HBCU's that go by the waste-side and disappear? He!!, judging from his avator, he one of the THEY's that went to one. :rolleyes: :bang: :deadhorse

[AppGuy04]

So why did you end you last statement to me with a sarcastic ..............

"then, pray tell, why do they go there".....................If you already knew the answer.

What did you expect the answer to be? Looks like it was no different from why you went to your choice of schools.

And as far as the last couple of statements ....................

Tell me why you think it should be the HBCU's that go by the waste-side and disappear?

first, there was no sarcasm, and if there was, not sure how you could tell that on a message board

if i knew the answer, i wouldn't have asked

and where did i say that HBCU's should disappear?

[jstate83]

Ok dude ..............whatever.................ya'll have fun cause none of this is important to me.

Ain't going back and fourth over 10 pages of BS today.
:nod:

[AppGuy04]

Ok dude ..............whatever.................ya'll have fun cause none of this is important to me.

Ain't going back and fourth over 10 pages of BS today.
:nod:

:confused: :rolleyes:

[blukeys]

It'll be interesting to follow HBCUs' continued evolution in the new century. We in Delaware are experiencing a battle royale being waged between some DSU alums and local African-American leaders with the CEO and Board of Trustees over what is perceived as the movement away from the school's mission as an HBCU.

All who are interested in this topic need to pay attention to what happens at DSU. Dr. Sessoms wants to turn DSU into a State University. This is something that is sorely needed in Delaware as the increased admission standards at UD are squeezing Delaware residents out of the main State University.

Currently, DelState is losing ground for admissions with Delaware residents to 2 private colleges that have campuses within 2 miles of DelState, Wilmington College and Wesley College. The demand for post secondary education in Central and Southern Delaware is huge and the smaller private institutions (along with Del Tech) have proven much more nimble and flexible in satisfying the needs for this demand.

For the past 15 years DSU has ignored the local Delaware market and has instead actively recruited minority students from Florida thru Maryland. This strategy has produced no growth in student enrollment while every other post secondary institution has seen significant increases. DSU is currently around 3,400 undergraduates. Dr. Sessoms wants to take the school to 10,000. (Wesley College is at about 3,200 undergrads and growing)

I am currently taking graduate courses at Delaware State and Wilmington College and of course received my Bacehlor's degree from UD so I have seen the schools from the inside. DSU is divided but most of the faculty that I have talked to are actually behind Dr. Sessoms. They realize that DSU going to 10,00 undergrads helps all of them.

I am currently looking into Doctoral programs at UD, DSU and Wilmington College although half the time my lazy ass says the hell with the academic hoops one must jump through as I am not learning anything new but just punching a ticket and doing the Graduate equivalent of busy work. Which by the way I should be doing right now so I will sign off.

[tsutiger]

Interesting discussion.

Just my opinion, but as long as HBCU’s are playing at the 1AA level in football, I don’t see any current MEAC or SWAC members joining other conferences.

All HBCU’s that play 1AA football are in the south except Del State. I live in Atlanta, but not one week goes by when I don’t see someone waiving the Rebel flag from their Car, or on their house. Unfortunately change is very slow in the South.

Look at us. Since the NCAA introduced the 1AA concept, we are the only HBCU to be classified as 1A or belong to a conference with PWC’s. We couldn’t stay 1A cause we couldn’t form a conference alliance or schedule games with other 1A schools, so we we’re forced to drop to the 1AA classification to get games. The only 1A school that would play us who was located in the south was Independent Lousiville. We beat them both times we played them, both times at their place. Once at 1A and once at 1AA. After two losses they wouldn't schedule us again. The only other 1A schools that agreed to play us were out West.

It seems not a week goes by that someone from the MEAC or SWAC boards tell us we need to join them so people will start attending our games. In one way they have a point. Not one OVC school has ever brought a large crowd to Nashville. Not even after moving to the Coliseum, which is in beautiful downtown Nashville. However, we always bring thousands to their places. We helped Samford set their stadium record. Our game at Jacksonville State is second in the record books. It’s not uncommon for us to have more fans at Tennessee Tech then they do. This is the 7th season MTSU has been playing 1A football, but their stadium record is when they played us in 98. Our attendance records since we moved to the Coliseum is 41K against Tennessee Tech, homecoming 99. I’d be willing to bet my both my arms and legs that Tennessee Tech had less then 200 fans. However, if we had played FAMU or Jackson St. that same night there would have easily been 55 to 60 thousand in attendance. But at the same time I feel the OVC is the best conference for us at the 1AA level. Our travel expenses would take a huge leap playing in the SWAC or MEAC, and not one HBCU has reported higher revenues then us in football over the last 5 years, so it can’t be that bad.

I can see certain HBCU’s wanting to join other conferences, but I don’t see the conferences wanting them. Look at Hampton. Just my opinion.

[Coastal89]

Personnally i'd like to see SCSU and Del. St. join the Big South. And i'm not the only one who feels this way. SCSU would provide CCU with a quality in state conference rivalry while Del. St. would help add needed competion. Hopefully the conference administration has heard the desires of these 2 schools.

[blukeys]

Interesting discussion.

Just my opinion, but as long as HBCU’s are playing at the 1AA level in football, I don’t see any current MEAC or SWAC members joining other conferences.

All HBCU’s that play 1AA football are in the south except Del State. I live in Atlanta, but not one week goes by when I don’t see someone waiving the Rebel flag from their Car, or on their house. Unfortunately change is very slow in the South.

Look at us. Since the NCAA introduced the 1AA concept, we are the only HBCU to be classified as 1A or belong to a conference with PWC’s. We couldn’t stay 1A cause we couldn’t form a conference alliance or schedule games with other 1A schools, so we we’re forced to drop to the 1AA classification to get games. The only 1A school that would play us who was located in the south was Independent Lousiville. We beat them both times we played them, both times at their place. Once at 1A and once at 1AA. After two losses they wouldn't schedule us again. The only other 1A schools that agreed to play us were out West.

It seems not a week goes by that someone from the MEAC or SWAC boards tell us we need to join them so people will start attending our games. In one way they have a point. Not one OVC school has ever brought a large crowd to Nashville. Not even after moving to the Coliseum, which is in beautiful downtown Nashville. However, we always bring thousands to their places. We helped Samford set their stadium record. Our game at Jacksonville State is second in the record books. It’s not uncommon for us to have more fans at Tennessee Tech then they do. This is the 7th season MTSU has been playing 1A football, but their stadium record is when they played us in 98. Our attendance records since we moved to the Coliseum is 41K against Tennessee Tech, homecoming 99. I’d be willing to bet my both my arms and legs that Tennessee Tech had less then 200 fans. However, if we had played FAMU or Jackson St. that same night there would have easily been 55 to 60 thousand in attendance. But at the same time I feel the OVC is the best conference for us at the 1AA level. Our travel expenses would take a huge leap playing in the SWAC or MEAC, and not one HBCU has reported higher revenues then us in football over the last 5 years, so it can’t be that bad.

I can see certain HBCU’s wanting to join other conferences, but I don’t see the conferences wanting them. Look at Hampton. Just my opinion.


Your points are well taken but every HBCU exists in a different economic and sociological reality and in the end this will effect their decision making. Delstate and Hampton are looking at your expereince and looking to get out of the MEAC for a variety of reasons many of which have nothing to do with football. In a perfect world Hampton and DSU both make a lot of sense in the CAA. I would rather have them than VCU and Drexel.

But Every conference has their own problems and the CAA is still fighting the basketball vs. Football struggles and this will go on with or without Hampton and DSU. (Although the Basketball schools will find a reason to oppose both of these schools.)

[TigerFan17]

I don't think Hampton was denied because it is an HBCU...you have to look at the situation at hand. The CAA has like a million members between hoops and football, and is likely not looking to add more. Also, Hampton wouldn't add a market area, and thats one of the biggest things conferences look at when adding schools. We already have a handful of Virginia schools.

I am for the HBCU's spreading out to other conferences and having other colleges/universities join the traditionally HBCU conferences. But, ultimately, the decision is up to them. Some people see it as segregation, some see it as tradition. Its a tough line to draw.

[blukeys]

I don't think Hampton was denied because it is an HBCU...you have to look at the situation at hand. The CAA has like a million members between hoops and football, and is likely not looking to add more. Also, Hampton wouldn't add a market area, and thats one of the biggest things conferences look at when adding schools. We already have a handful of Virginia schools.

I am for the HBCU's spreading out to other conferences and having other colleges/universities join the traditionally HBCU conferences. But, ultimately, the decision is up to them. Some people see it as segregation, some see it as tradition. Its a tough line to draw.

Hampton won't add a market area but they certainly would not drive up travel costs!!! That and marketing to the fastest growing area in Virginia would not be tough. W&M, Hampton, ODU the possibilites are huge.

Check out the CAA boards you will see a clear division between the football/basketball/nonfootball schools. That is where the division is. Hampton and DSU would tip the balance too far in favor of football. Not all are in favor of ODU football in the CAA.

[Sly Fox]

There's no division among the Big South folks. We'd take Hampton every day and Sunday in our league. NC A&T and SC State both would also be extremely attractive to us because of their geographical attributes.

These schools would be an immediate upgrade in football and they would benefit in basketball, baseball and other sports.

[inpsite1919]

I know MEAC members A&T, SC State, and Hampton are the more prevalent members that are consider, if nto actively, leaving.
SCSU WOULD ONLY CONSIDER LEAVING THE MEAC IF THEY WEREN'T ALLOWED THE CHANCE TO COMPETE IN THE PLAYOFFS. YES WE ARE DOWN HALF A NOTCH TO SOME OTHER TEAMS IN FOOTBALL BUT WHAT ABOUT OTHER SPORTS. MEAC BASKETBALL IS KING OF I-AA

[TigerFan17]

Hampton won't add a market area but they certainly would not drive up travel costs!!! That and marketing to the fastest growing area in Virginia would not be tough. W&M, Hampton, ODU the possibilites are huge.

Check out the CAA boards you will see a clear division between the football/basketball/nonfootball schools. That is where the division is. Hampton and DSU would tip the balance too far in favor of football. Not all are in favor of ODU football in the CAA.

I was a member at the CAAZone well before I was a member here. I know. ;)

[# 1 BearBooster]

jstate83: I think people choose to attend specific colleges and universities for a variety of reasons. I believe some of the main reasons are as follows: economic, social, recruitment and influence of friends and family. Whatever the reason, the most important is the fact they will benefit from the experience wherever they attend. Now back to the subject at hand.

The comments and ideas expressed by fans of conferences outside the MEAC and SWAC are great. On another note, when I said I believe the MEAC and other so-called HBCU conferences will go the way of the Negro Baseball League, I want to make one thing clear. I meant the MEAC and SWAC could change as we know them now. In otherwords as so-called formely HBCU conferences they could become integrated as well. The evolution could be as some current members of the MEAC and SWAC leave their conferences, they may be replaced by teams that do not carry the HBCU heritage. What are your thoughts?

[AppGuy04]

jstate83: I think people choose to attend specific colleges and universities for a variety of reasons. I believe some of the main reasons are as follows: economic, social, recruitment and influence of friends and family. Whatever the reason, the most important is the fact they will benefit from the experience wherever they attend. Now back to the subject at hand.

The comments and ideas expressed by fans of conferences outside the MEAC and SWAC are great. On another note, when I said I believe the MEAC and other so-called HBCU conferences will go the way of the Negro Baseball League, I want to make one thing clear. I meant the MEAC and SWAC could change as we know them now. In otherwords as so-called formely HBCU conferences they could become integrated as well. The evolution could be as some current members of the MEAC and SWAC leave their conferences, they may be replaced by teams that do not carry the HBCU heritage. What are your thoughts?

are you saying that the conferences would ecome integrated or the schools themselves?

[Hansel]

SCSU WOULD ONLY CONSIDER LEAVING THE MEAC IF THEY WEREN'T ALLOWED THE CHANCE TO COMPETE IN THE PLAYOFFS. YES WE ARE DOWN HALF A NOTCH TO SOME OTHER TEAMS IN FOOTBALL BUT WHAT ABOUT OTHER SPORTS. MEAC BASKETBALL IS KING OF I-AA
The MEAC had the second lowest Basketball RPI of all division I conferences last year, ahead of the only the SWAC

http://www.kenpom.com/confrank.php?y=2005

[colgate13]

The MEAC had the second lowest Basketball RPI of all division I conferences last year, ahead of the only the SWAC

http://www.kenpom.com/confrank.php?y=2005

Thank you for that reality check.

[# 1 BearBooster]

AppGuy04: The conferences. The schools are already integrated - some more than others. :)

[IaaScribe]

MEAC basketball is king of I-AA? What is that even supposed to mean? There is no I-AA basketball.

Considering S.C. State lost last year to the team that tied for last in the Big Sky (NAU), there isn't much argument there.

[AppGuy04]

AppGuy04: The conferences. The schools are already integrated - some more than others. :)

I don't know much about HBCU's but do they have quotas or anything like that

I know high schools in my area have to have a certain percentage of minority students. in some cases they have to bus in kids who would have otherwise gone to another school closer to their house

[PIRATETIZED1]

(Orig. posted by blukeys)
Hampton won't add a market area but they certainly would not drive up travel costs!!! That and marketing to the fastest growing area in Virginia would not be tough. W&M, Hampton, ODU the possibilites are huge.

Check out the CAA boards you will see a clear division between the football/basketball/nonfootball schools. That is where the division is. Hampton and DSU would tip the balance too far in favor of football. Not all are in favor of ODU football in the CAA.
************************************************** *****************

Excellent rebuttal....I could not have expressed the point any better than you did! KUDOS 2 ya'!

PIRATETIZED :cool:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HAMPTON UNIVERSITY - “…Of Service To God and Our Nation…”

[PIRATETIZED1]

(Orig. posted by TigerFan17)

I don't think Hampton was denied because it is an HBCU...you have to look at the situation at hand.
################################################## ##

TigerFan17, can you & I agree on 1 point point here>?< That your statement really represents >>YOUR OPINION<<<!!! The fact is you nor I will REALLY ever know the TRUTH & the reason WHY Towson's application was accepted to the A-10 and not HAMPTON's!!!! Only GOD and those who had the authority to accept & reject applications will ever know the REAL truth. Towson's facilities are not larger than Hamptons. I was Impressed with the list of Undergraduate Major of Studies. For a State (Supported) School, Towson does offer a few more areas of study than Hampton offers as a Private Institution. Each school offers sports teams that the other does not offer. However, Hampton offers areas NOT listed on Towson's Curriculum. We can can go down the line, comparing items from Alumni Giving to Future Expansion. I'm confident, you'll find that Towson (albeit a Par-Excellent College) was NOT "...heads & shoulders..." above Hampton to be chosen a member of the A-10 conference.

Just for a MOMent....TigerFan17....Just ONE brief MOMent!!! Picture the A10, accepting Hampton in the A10 & rejecting Towson's Application. What would you be saying in this thread???? Where would Towson be at this point???? Would any of us be hearing from YOU at all????????

Okay, your MOMent is up. Now, what other words of wisdom would you like to share with all of us???

Take care 'til next time.

PIRATETIZED :cool:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
HAMPTON UNIVERSITY - “…Of Service To God and Our Nation…”

[Lehigh Football Nation]

To the best of my (admittedly uninformed) knowledge, HBCU's fall into three broad categories:

* big-time schools in the SWAC/MEAC who make mega $$ off their football programs and tradition (Grambling, Southern, Alabama St., Florida A&M)
* mid-range schools that play in the MEAC/OVC) that make good money playing classics but also play in the I-AA playoffs (Hampton, Tennessee St., B-CC, NC A&T)
* small-time schools in the SWAC/MEAC that need the "classic" games to keep their small I-AA football programs afloat (Prarie View A&M, Ark-PB, Howard, Morgan St.)

The "HBCU classics" are a integral part of the fabric of I-AA football - they make big money - and fans flock to them, so they will not be going away anytime soon. The SWAC is heavier in these, and doesn't have the same issues that the MEAC has, so lumping the SWAC in to me is pretty silly. Yes, they have small programs that are also struggling, but it's a different issue - and to me it's not about the HBCU concept at all.

Tennessee St. to the OVC has proven that HBCU's can indeed leave HBCU conferences like the MEAC to improve basketball (where the big money is) without losing the classic I-AA football games. Hampton is the quintessential mold of the type of school that might jump - a good school with good HBCU classic I-AA games, looking to improve in basketball. (FAMU is/was looking for the same thing -- however, they made an ill-advised and ill-planned attempt to move to I-A instead of jumping I-AA conferences).

The BSC is an up-and-coming basketball conference. If any MEAC team jumps there, it will be because they want to improve basketball. The CAA would offer a better basketball jump, but that conference in football and basketball is bursting at the seams. The BSC may be the only choice for teams to upgrade.

I really doubt that breaking up HBCU's is part of this agenda, however - nor should it be. IMO it's a few schools who want to follow the Tennessee St. road to success, not a mass defection.

[# 1 BearBooster]

Lehigh Football Nation: You made some great points and a accurate assessment of HBCU athletic schools and programs. Especially, their football programs. However, I think there are a number of schools attempting to upgrade their programs. Moreover, I believe you are absolutely on the mark about Hampton University.

I do not believe their initial rejection by the A-10 or CAA had anything to do with race. I believe when Hampton applied those conferences were already in the process of re-evaluation of their alignment and structure. Hampton had just applied for D-I status. There were a number of unknowns concerning Hampton's progress toward that status. Also, I believe their president has enough influence, connections and clout that if he wanted to truly make it happen, it would have happened. The MEAC was already actively courting Hampton University for entry. Hampton was connected closely with the post MEAC commissioner was all but assured its admission.

[TigerFan17]

(Orig. posted by TigerFan17)

################################################## ##

TigerFan17, can you & I agree on 1 point point here>?< That your statement really represents >>YOUR OPINION<<<!!! The fact is you nor I will REALLY ever know the TRUTH & the reason WHY Towson's application was accepted to the A-10 and not HAMPTON's!!!! Only GOD and those who had the authority to accept & reject applications will ever know the REAL truth. Towson's facilities are not larger than Hamptons. I was Impressed with the list of Undergraduate Major of Studies. For a State (Supported) School, Towson does offer a few more areas of study than Hampton offers as a Private Institution. Each school offers sports teams that the other does not offer. However, Hampton offers areas NOT listed on Towson's Curriculum. We can can go down the line, comparing items from Alumni Giving to Future Expansion. I'm confident, you'll find that Towson (albeit a Par-Excellent College) was NOT "...heads & shoulders..." above Hampton to be chosen a member of the A-10 conference.

Just for a MOMent....TigerFan17....Just ONE brief MOMent!!! Picture the A10, accepting Hampton in the A10 & rejecting Towson's Application. What would you be saying in this thread???? Where would Towson be at this point???? Would any of us be hearing from YOU at all????????

Okay, your MOMent is up. Now, what other words of wisdom would you like to share with all of us???

Take care 'til next time.

PIRATETIZED :cool:
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HAMPTON UNIVERSITY - “…Of Service To God and Our Nation…”


I think Towson was chosen because A-10 football will become part of the CAA in 2007. Towson is a full member of the CAA in all other sports except gymnastics I believe. Thus, since our universities are so close in what they have to offer, it follows logic to take Towson since we already have the conference affiliation.

What in the hell are you all over my case for? Its not like we were non-existent before, we were in the Patriot League which has a pretty good representation on this board. I would probably still be here. I would probably post in this thread, because I have an opinion on the issue.

You have 19 posts here...would you be spouting off if your team wasn't undefeated?

You've done nothing but condescend and reject everyones arguments for no apparent reason whatsoever, and you're going to ask me what I have contributed to this board and/or thread?

Guess you'll just have to get hammered in the playoffs...again.

[# 1 BearBooster]

TigerFan17: You are not going to convince him. There are those who are ready to jump on the race issue or infer race played a prominent role in one's rejection even when it's not apparent. It's sad but it's a reality.

Like I said, Hampton had just applied for D-I status. The A-10 and CAA were already in the process of re-alignment and structure changes. Towson was already a qualified D-I looking for a stronger football conference to align it's football program and a strong basketball other sports conference. They had been silently courting entry in the A-10 and CAA for more than a year or so.

[henfan]

One of the Tidewater newspapers indicated about 3 years ago that Hampton had applied for full membership to the CAA and SoCon but had not heard back from them. The paper never followed up that report with any news (at least, not that I recall reading), so perhaps HU has not heard back from those conferences.

Del State had discussions with the Big South for affiliate football membership a little over a year ago. They've also had contact with the NEC about Olympic sport membership. So far, the discussions haven't resulted in any action. For DSU, a move out of the MEAC wouldn't likely hurt their attendance much at all. They don't often participate in football classics and, they're so far north, they don't really have any fierce conference rivals in football.

For their part, the MEAC is looking to expand, perhaps in part, to mitigate the possible effects of losing teams down the line. Winston-Salem St. & NC Central seems to be the targets to reclassify as D-I and move from the CIAA into the MEAC.

Interesting times ahead.

[# 1 BearBooster]

ralph: I know of no credible or factual evidence that has been presented here or anywhere else that Hampton applied for membership in the A-10 or CAA. I have heard and read this story just like you. It's been banty about on other websites...As far as I know it's a far fetched rumor. Like the other member said, I heard the story appeared in the newspaper. But, I never read or heard an official statement from A-10 or CAA Official that Hampton applied for membership.

There are a number of folk out there that look for the boogeyman of prejudice
around every corner. I feel this is one of those incidences.

[tsutiger]

To the best of my (admittedly uninformed) knowledge, HBCU's fall into three broad categories:

* big-time schools in the SWAC/MEAC who make mega $$ off their football programs and tradition (Grambling, Southern, Alabama St., Florida A&M)
* mid-range schools that play in the MEAC/OVC) that make good money playing classics but also play in the I-AA playoffs (Hampton, Tennessee St., B-CC, NC A&T)
* small-time schools in the SWAC/MEAC that need the "classic" games to keep their small I-AA football programs afloat (Prarie View A&M, Ark-PB, Howard, Morgan St.)

The "HBCU classics" are a integral part of the fabric of I-AA football - they make big money - and fans flock to them, so they will not be going away anytime soon. The SWAC is heavier in these, and doesn't have the same issues that the MEAC has, so lumping the SWAC in to me is pretty silly. Yes, they have small programs that are also struggling, but it's a different issue - and to me it's not about the HBCU concept at all.

Tennessee St. to the OVC has proven that HBCU's can indeed leave HBCU conferences like the MEAC to improve basketball (where the big money is) without losing the classic I-AA football games. Hampton is the quintessential mold of the type of school that might jump - a good school with good HBCU classic I-AA games, looking to improve in basketball. (FAMU is/was looking for the same thing -- however, they made an ill-advised and ill-planned attempt to move to I-A instead of jumping I-AA conferences).

The BSC is an up-and-coming basketball conference. If any MEAC team jumps there, it will be because they want to improve basketball. The CAA would offer a better basketball jump, but that conference in football and basketball is bursting at the seams. The BSC may be the only choice for teams to upgrade.

I really doubt that breaking up HBCU's is part of this agenda, however - nor should it be. IMO it's a few schools who want to follow the Tennessee St. road to success, not a mass defection.

Good attempt. Esp. considering you already stated that you were "admittedly uninformed". However, you would have to include TSU in the "Big Time" category. Since 1999 when i started paying attention to Revenues/Expenses of HBCU programs, no HBCU has reported higher revenues or reported a larger operating budget. If you would reseach expenses on all 1AA football programs you would see we are in the top 10 if not the top 5. Each year we play in 2 of the top 5 Classics, and we're the only HBCU to have our own annual Classic (John Merritt Classic). On the field the only HBCU that has a winning record over us or sent more players to the NFL is Grambling.

Tennessee State has never been a member of the SWAC or MEAC. Our last conference affiliation was the Midwestern Conference in 1966. We were independent until 1988 when we joined the OVC. For this reason, I don't think we should be used as an example of how successful or unsuccessful other HBCU's would be after leaving their long time conferences. Also unlike most HBCU's, since the early 69 we've scheduled a PWC or played one in a Bowl game each year.

IMO Hampton would have a smooth adjustment. One, across the board they have very respectable athletic program. Two, they have deep pockets. NCA&T would be next in line. I think SCSU would really struggle, and it would be best for them to stay in the MEAC. Just my opinion.

[jstate83]

are you saying that the conferences would ecome integrated or the schools themselves?

AAAHHHH...........................The schools are already intergrated. :rolleyes:

[BgJag]

ralph: I know of no credible or factual evidence that has been presented here or anywhere else that Hampton applied for membership in the A-10 or CAA. I have heard and read this story just like you. It's been banty about on other websites...As far as I know it's a far fetched rumor. Like the other member said, I heard the story appeared in the newspaper. But, I never read or heard an official statement from A-10 or CAA Official that Hampton applied for membership.

There are a number of folk out there that look for the boogeyman of prejudice
around every corner. I feel this is one of those incidences.

http://collegesportsinfo.com/conference_realignment_grid/

"Hampton
MEAC
The Norfolk, VA MEAC school has applied to both the A10 and CAA in an attempt to maintain a I-AA football home while benefiting its basketball program."

[AppGuy04]

AAAHHHH...........................The schools are already intergrated. :rolleyes:

i realize that, i have a couple friend that go to nccu and nca&t, just wondering to what extent

hell, i have 4 HBCU's within 20 minutes of my house
NCCU, NCA&T, Shaw, St. Aug

[gophoenix]

Ralph,

Hampton didn't apply anywhere (as there is no real applization process, its more of an invitation to join), they made strides to court the CAA and that is it. From what I remember, this was back in 2000/2001 when the CAA was eyeing Elon after ECU and Richmond bolted (and yes, the CAA made a visit to Elon before we idiotically told them we weren't interested). There were news articles on it in the Norfolk newspaper back then if you want to try and find archived articles. The same articles had William and Mary and Old Dominion admins speaking against the idea.

One or two articles and that was it.

I've been told that Hampton made the same overtures to the SoCon last year. Nothing official was said on that other than some speculation from the Charleston, SC newspaper.

I'd personally like to see them here.

[Catmendue2]

The SWAC aint going nowhere soon, count on it. If the SWAC move anywhere it will be up to 1A mid majors and TennST and FAMU will be joining the SWAC in that move. ;)

[AppGuy04]

The SWAC aint going nowhere soon, count on it. If the SWAC move anywhere it will be up to 1A mid majors and TennST and FAMU will be joining the SWAC in that move. ;)

that would be a whole conference of cupcakes, ya'll would get crushed

[TexasTerror]

The SWAC aint going nowhere soon, count on it. If the SWAC move anywhere it will be up to 1A mid majors and TennST and FAMU will be joining the SWAC in that move. ;)

Travel would be awful! Most, if not all, of the SWAC schools already bus from point A to point B for every sport. Those are already some long bus rides from Texas Southern and Prairie View A&M to Alabama A&M and Alabama State.

Throw in Florida A&M, wow. Tennessee St, too? Doubt we will see that...

[pete4256]

I think the chances of this widespread conference jumping are pretty slim, though I would have to think the Big South would be more into Delaware State than Savannah State. If we DO get a lot of changes, though, I think it would be great. Especially if we could get FAMU in the Socon.

Excitement!

[gophoenix]

Do you really want a school in the SoCon that has had recent problems like FAMU has? Personally, I hate FAMU. The cheating in 1999 cost Elon a playoff spot. We were the first team left out.

[TexasTerror]

What's the latest on the Florida A&M AD search?

Any clue?

[pete4256]

Do you really want a school in the SoCon that has had recent problems like FAMU has? Personally, I hate FAMU. The cheating in 1999 cost Elon a playoff spot. We were the first team left out.

Yeah, those allegations were serious.

But the admin seems to have taken steps to clean out the football program.

I just love that band and those unis. Plus they have great athletes. They'd still have 3 ooc games for Southern, BCC, and whoever else they wanted.

I'd rather have them than Elon anyday. :deadhorse :rolleyes:

[OL FU]

Yeah, those allegations were serious.

But the admin seems to have taken steps to clean out the football program.

I just love that band and those unis. Plus they have great athletes. They'd still have 3 ooc games for Southern, BCC, and whoever else they wanted.

I'd rather have them than Elon anyday. :deadhorse :rolleyes:

I hope that was a joke or we have a priorities mixed up.

[jstate83]

i realize that, i have a couple friend that go to nccu and nca&t, just wondering to what extent

hell, i have 4 HBCU's within 20 minutes of my house
NCCU, NCA&T, Shaw, St. Aug

Can't speak for schools outside of Mississippi, but on the ratio of Black/White.

JSU and Valley is right about 7% to 8% white.
Alcorn is about 10%.

[pete4256]

I hope that was a joke or we have a priorities mixed up.

That was a joke. Mainly at the expense of the ASU/GSU complainer crowd.

You know we don't cheat at Georgia Southern . . . that costs money and . . . you can fill in the rest.

[SU Jag]

I believe the MEAC and other HBCU conferences will one day go the way of the defunct Negro Baseball Leagues. The existence of these conferences are a hold over from the days of segregation. The dissolution will take the courage of a number of presidents (HBCU and others). It is my belief the eventual amalgamation of teams that comprise the MEAC and other HBCU conferences with other conferences will greatly enhance diverse recruitment and coaching staffs in all sports. This will benefit the advancement of intercollegiate athletics and American society in general. (The sooner we do away with the so-called white/black thing the better.)

It will never happen. Maybe in the MEAC, but not the SWAC and for sure not the SIAC. Alabama State flirted with it but they backed off. Its not about black/white its about tradition. The HBCU conferences have something thats unique and its something that noones else has.

[R.A.]

-That's the Big South's biggest chance for a school leaving... and they're going nowhere any time soon

[SAME OLD G]

I believe the MEAC and other HBCU conferences will one day go the way of the defunct Negro Baseball Leagues. The existence of these conferences are a hold over from the days of segregation.

As is the existence of non HBCU conferences.

[CollegeSportsInfo]

Didn't see a dedicated thread for this topic. If there is already one out there that can't be found by the search function, my bad.

North Carolina Central to Join MEAC (http://collegesportsinfo.com/blog/2005/11/nccu-to-join-meac.html)