K-Rod's season

[UMass922]

K-Rod is probably going to break the single-season saves record, and I've even heard him mentioned as a dark-horse MVP candidate (!), but he's arguably not even one of the top five closers in the AL this year. An interesting numbers comparison with some other great AL closers:

SAVES:
Rodriguez--53
Nathan--36
Papelbon--35
Soria--33
Rivera--32
Jenks--27

ERA:
Nathan--1.11
Rivera--1.46
Papelbon--1.68
Jenks--1.82
Soria--1.89
Rodriguez--2.47

ERA+:
Nathan--373
Rivera--292
Papelbon--269
Jenks--247
Soria--236
Rodriguez--174

WHIP:
Rivera--0.697
Papelbon--0.847
Nathan--0.895
Soria--0.895
Jenks--1.054
Rodriguez--1.217

Hard to take K-Rod seriously as a Cy Young candiate (Cliff Lee probably has that wrapped up anyway), much less an MVP candidate. But I bet he probably gets more votes than any of those other five guys, just because of the saves.

[AZGrizFan]

All it means is his team plays a lot more close games than other teams.

[UMass922]

All it means is his team plays a lot more close games than other teams.

Yup. Another case is Bobby Thigpen vs. Dennis Eckersley in 1990. Thigpen set the saves record that year and finished ahead of Eck in the Cy Young balloting, but Eck's was probably the best season ever by a single-inning closer. His ERA and WHIP were both around 0.60, I believe.

[TheValleyRaider]

Cliff Lee is 20-2 with an ERA of 2.32

For a team that's 66-70

He's the AL Cy Winner, and it shouldn't even be close xnodx

By the numbers, I'd rather have Rivera, Nathan or Papelbon closing out a big game than K-Rod xnodx

[UMass922]

Cliff Lee is 20-2 with an ERA of 2.32

For a team that's 66-70

He's the AL Cy Winner, and it shouldn't even be close xnodx

Yeah, Lee is running away with it. Unless he absolutely collapses this month, he should win it unanimously. I'd vote Halladay second.

[UNHWildCats]

All K Rod will get outta this is a big contract.

No MVP, No Cy Young and he may not even get the relievers award. He's overrated and walks too many.

[TheValleyRaider]

Yeah, Lee is running away with it. Unless he absolutely collapses this month, he should win it unanimously. I'd vote Halladay second.

Halladay's a beast

I draft him early every year for Fantasy and no one ever bothers to say anything. He's the best pitcher in the AL, hands down xbowx

Lee's having the better season though

I wouldn't mind seeing a 4th or 5th place vote or two for Mike Mussina if he can get to 20 wins. Guy doesn't get enough credit in NY or elsewhere for how good he's been and for how long xnodx

[UNHWildCats]

Matsuzaka would be a strong candidate if not for the high walk total.

[UNCBears2010]

All K Rod will get outta this is a big contract.

No MVP, No Cy Young and he may not even get the relievers award. He's overrated and walks too many.

The relief award is based on a points system. You add 4 points for a "tough" save, 3 points for all other saves, and 2 points for a win. You subract 2 points for each blown save and 2 points for each loss. With all of the saves he's racked up, K-Rod should win the award handily.

[UNHWildCats]

The relief award is based on a points system. You add 4 points for a "tough" save, 3 points for all other saves, and 2 points for a win. You subract 2 points for each blown save and 2 points for each loss. With all of the saves he's racked up, K-Rod should win the award handily.
hmm learn something new every day

[UMass922]

Matsuzaka would be a strong candidate if not for the high walk total.

Yeah, plus he missed a few starts because of an injury. But he could finish as high as third in the voting because of his record and his ERA.

[UMass922]

The relief award is based on a points system. You add 4 points for a "tough" save, 3 points for all other saves, and 2 points for a win. You subract 2 points for each blown save and 2 points for each loss. With all of the saves he's racked up, K-Rod should win the award handily.

They get points for wins? Usually when a closer gets a win it's because he blows a save and his team bails him out. Not a great scoring system.

[TheValleyRaider]

They get points for wins? Usually when a closer gets a win it's because he blows a save and his team bails him out. Not a great scoring system.

Well, in that case they appear to be rewarding the closer if he blows the save, but manages not to give up the lead (or if his team ties it up again), since he gets 2 points for the win and -2 for the BS

It's likely meant to cover instances where they enter tie games at home and the team scores in the bottom of the inning to win

[appfan2008]

from looking at those stats... i would say krod is the 4th best closer in the al behind papelbon, rivera and nathan (in no particular order)

[UNHWildCats]

They get points for wins? Usually when a closer gets a win it's because he blows a save and his team bails him out. Not a great scoring system.
not always true.

Generally a team uses its closes in the 9th in a tie game at home since it won't be able to enter a save situation after that point. If he holds a team scoreless in the 9th and his team gets a walk off win he gets a win.

Papelbon for instance has 4 blown saves, but 5 wins. But only 1 of the wins came in the same game he blew the save.

Mariano Rivera also has 5 wins, none coming in games he blew a save in.

Rivera has won 36 games since 1999 in which he didn't blow a save in.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

from looking at those stats... i would say krod is the 4th best closer in the al behind papelbon, rivera and nathan (in no particular order)

yep... and i rather send any of them to the mound before k-rod.

he's good, but the save is like the Win... it's a stat that can be inflated or deflated for reasons beyond performance.

my judgment of a closer is this... if you are the opposing team down by a run or two... how likely are you to turn off the game when their closer comes in... Nathan, Rivera, Papelbon... i'm much more inclined to say "game over"

[UNCBears2010]

my judgment of a closer is this... if you are the opposing team down by a run or two... how likely are you to turn off the game when their closer comes in... Nathan, Rivera, Papelbon... i'm much more inclined to say "game over"

I'd put Brian Fuentes in that group with Nathan, Rivera, Papelbon and K-Rod too. I'll admit to that being a bit homer-ish, but go look at his numbers this year.

[UMass922]

Well, in that case they appear to be rewarding the closer if he blows the save, but manages not to give up the lead (or if his team ties it up again), since he gets 2 points for the win and -2 for the BS

It's likely meant to cover instances where they enter tie games at home and the team scores in the bottom of the inning to win

I suppose so, but when a pitcher enters a tie game and preserves that tie, a fair system would credit him for that whether or not he's lucky enough to have his team score the winning run for him. The best he can do is not give up any runs; it doesn't make any sense to give extra credit to guys who get run support.

So basically a pitcher who enters the top of the ninth with a one-run lead, gives up two runs, but gets bailed out by his team with two runs in the bottom of the ninth to win--he gets the same net score (0) as a guy who enters a tie game in the ninth and pitches a perfect inning to keep the game going? With a scoring system that arbitrary, they might as well just give the award to the guy with the most saves and save themselves the trouble of all that pointless arithmetic.

[UMass922]

not always true.

Generally a team uses its closes in the 9th in a tie game at home since it won't be able to enter a save situation after that point. If he holds a team scoreless in the 9th and his team gets a walk off win he gets a win.

Papelbon for instance has 4 blown saves, but 5 wins. But only 1 of the wins came in the same game he blew the save.

Mariano Rivera also has 5 wins, none coming in games he blew a save in.

Rivera has won 36 games since 1999 in which he didn't blow a save in.

Fair enough; I stand corrected. Still, any way you slice it, it makes no sense to factor wins into the scoring system. A reliever who pitches one or two scoreless innings in a tie game has done all he can do, whether or not he ends up getting credited with a win.

In fact, if anything, preserving a tie in the ninth inning (or later) of a game should earn more points than any kind of save, since in a tie game the pitcher has less margin for error (especially if he's pitching for the visiting team).