The Big South gets an automatic bid??

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Yes, I know I'm a little bit behind, but why should a conference with 5 teams get a spot in the playoffs. And that is beside the fact that four out of the five teams are complete pansies. I mean, we almost might as well create an automatic bid for the Northeastern Conference and Ivies.

[JMU Duke Dog]

They do not unless something changed at 9:07 PM tonight.

[FightinBluHen51]

They do not unless something changed at 9:07 PM tonight.
Yeah.... Auto-bids are

A 10
Big Sky
Gateway
Patriot
MEAC
SoCon
SLC
OVC

[UAalum72]

In fact one of the REQUIREMENTS to be recognized as a conference by the NCAA is to have six members. The Big South (and the MAAC) members are basically treated as independents

[Retro]

Speaking of 6 members, Has the Big south ever considered adding Savannah State or vice versa?

[gophoenix]

Actually,
The automatic bid conferences are:
SoCon, Gateway, Big Sky, Southland, A-10, Patriot, MEAC, OVC, NEC and Pioneer.

And that is a YES for those last two, they are up for an automatic bid just like the rest. The rules state that a conference must have the same 6 teams for a two year span to be eligible. The I-AA bylaws state that only half of the field for the playoffs can be automatic bids, and those are determined by conference strength.... thus you have the same 8 conferences getting the automatic every year, which seems like there are 8 conferences that get the automatic bid. But there is no rule stating that those conferences will get one.

The MAAC, Great West and Big South don't have enough teams and the SWAC and Ivy opt out.

[grizband]

Actually,
The automatic bid conferences are:
SoCon, Gateway, Big Sky, Southland, A-10, Patriot, MEAC, OVC, NEC and Pioneer.

And that is a YES for those last two, they are up for an automatic bid just like the rest. The rules state that a conference must have the same 6 teams for a two year span to be eligible. The I-AA bylaws state that only half of the field for the playoffs can be automatic bids, and those are determined by conference strength.... thus you have the same 8 conferences getting the automatic every year, which seems like there are 8 conferences that get the automatic bid. But there is no rule stating that those conferences will get one.

The MAAC, Great West and Big South don't have enough teams and the SWAC and Ivy opt out.

The NEC and Pioneer do not have automatic playoff bids. This is an excerpt from the NCAA manual:

Automatic Qualifiers
[Reference: Bylaws 31.3.4 and 31.3.5 in the NCAA Manual.]
The following conferences have been granted automatic-qualification privileges for the 2005 championship:
Atlantic 10 Conference
Big Sky Conference
Gateway Football Conference
Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference
Ohio Valley Conference
Patriot League
Southern Conference
Southland Conference

It will be interesting to see what happens once all of the teams from the Great West become playoff eligible. There are some teams in there that could make some noise (namley UC-Davis and NDSU).

[eaglesrthe1]

gophoenix is just saying that the NEC and Pioneer are auto eiligible, since they fullfill all of the criteria. Notice that the auto-bid conferences are named each year. As it stands now, when the Great West comes of age, the weakest conference would lose their auto-bid to them.

[grizband]

Thanks for the clarification eagles, and sorry I tried to correct you gophoenix. I didn't really that the autobids were chosen year to year.

[Mr. C]

Speaking of 6 members, Has the Big south ever considered adding Savannah State or vice versa?
The Big South has had some discussions with Savannah State. Commissioner Kyle Callendar has admited as much. But there are some big concerns about SSU's academics, as well as other things with this mess of an institution. The latest fiasco with Savannah State is that they fired their white baseball coach in the last few weeks, who is threatening to sue them over discrimination. Apparently, he knows where some of the bodies are buried, if you get my drift. The MEAC is more interested in SSU, with Winston-Salem State also set to come on board when it goes I-AA provisional next year. The thought is that the MEAC is trying to go to 12 teams, so they can spilt into seperate divisions and be legal to play a championship game. Another possible member might be North Carolina Central, like Winston-Salem State a member currently of the CIAA. The Winston-Salem Journal reported last week that NCC is strongly considering a move to I-AA. It says a lot that the Big South, in desperate need of a sixth team won't touch SSU, but the MEAC will.

[umassfan]

If there are any more Auto bids then they need to expand the playoffs... otherwise a conference like the Big South doesnt deserve one.

[windwalker]

I wonder, as more and more teams that are Div 2 keep wanting to move up to I-AA, what will happen when there are 10 - 12 conferences that have the mininum members.. Will eventulately the NCAA go to more auto bids.. or to the 24/32 team format???

Or worse yet... will the Div I-AA become another "BOWL" playoff???

Money talks....

[I-AA Fan]

The following conferences receive automatic bids to the 2005 NCAA division I-AA play-off:

The Atlantic-10 Conference
The Big Sky Conference
The Gateway Football Conference
The Mid-East Athletic Conference
The Ohio Valley Conference
The Patriot League
The Southern Conference
The Southland Conference


I do not agree that the GWFC should step in and take a bid. If so, what is the reason for having a conference? Look at the OVC ... arguably the best conference historically. Do we ignore that in the absence of "concrete" regulations, and select the auto-bid conferences each year? If this happens ... I would expect to see, and support, a "BCS-like" organization between the current 8 auto-bid conferences. They (the GWFC) knew the rules when they formed. Besides, have they even submitted their eligibility paperwork as of yet? I do not care to see teams start jumping conferences. As soon as that happens, conferences like the PL, OVC, maybe even MEAC will never be able to attract quite the same athletes. It will just fuel the strength of the A-10 over the PL, SoCon over the MEAC, GFC over the OVC, and Sky over the Southland. The only acceptable alternative is to expand participation, or may I be the first welcome EIU back to the GFC?

[UAalum72]

I do not agree that the GWFC should step in and take a bid. If so, what is the reason for having a conference? Look at the OVC ... arguably the best conference historically.
So what? 'History' can't give you a permanent lock on a playoff spot, no matter how far behind you fall, if other schools are improving themselves

Do we ignore that in the absence of "concrete" regulations, and select the auto-bid conferences each year? If this happens ...
That IS what happens now

I would expect to see, and support, a "BCS-like" organization between the current 8 auto-bid conferences.
and that's already been an accusation on this forum by some posters from the lesser conferences, that the power conferences want to maintain a monopoly on the playoffs

They (the GWFC) knew the rules when they formed.
Of course, the PFL and MAAC schools were made I-AA by rule (the NEC football league was formed after the rule) and the GWFC knew the rule that you want to ignore - that automatic bids are awarded on a two-year option (there's a one-year warning that a conference may lose its auto-bid). Are you saying that if a college grows from 3,000 to 17,000 students, or no matter how much it improves its team, it must either continue to play D-III or D-II schools or else be forever doomed to compete for an at-large bid (existing conferences won't infinitely expand their membership)?


Besides, have they even submitted their eligibility paperwork as of yet?
Probably not, since they're not yet eligible by the rules.

I do not care to see teams start jumping conferences. As soon as that happens, conferences like the PL, OVC, maybe even MEAC will never be able to attract quite the same athletes. It will just fuel the strength of the A-10 over the PL, SoCon over the MEAC, GFC over the OVC, and Sky over the Southland.
And one factor holding back the non-bid conferences now is that they can't tell recruits they may be competing for a national championship. Welcome to our world

The only acceptable alternative is to expand participation
So we can agree on something

[89Hen]

I wonder, as more and more teams that are Div 2 keep wanting to move up to I-AA, what will happen when there are 10 - 12 conferences that have the mininum members.
There's plenty of room. I-AA hasn't really grown over the years. As many teams move up from DII or start up programs, that many leave for I-A or drop their programs. There's tons of room in the Southland, Southern, Big South, Big Sky, Great West, Gateway, OVC.... I posted this on another string a month or so ago, but what I think should happen is the NCAA raise the number of teams required for an auto to at least 8. Really, a conference of 6 doesn't deserve an auto IMO. Being crowned the champ of 5 other teams?

[89Hen]

Look at the OVC ... arguably the best conference historically.
Could you please argue that case for me? I'm not sure you could successfully argue that they are in the top 4 historically.

[Hansel]

I posted this on another string a month or so ago, but what I think should happen is the NCAA raise the number of teams required for an auto to at least 8. Really, a conference of 6 doesn't deserve an auto IMO. Being crowned the champ of 5 other teams?

:nod: :nod: :nod:

or ditch them althogether :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Tribe4SF]

I posted this on another string a month or so ago, but what I think should happen is the NCAA raise the number of teams required for an auto to at least 8. Really, a conference of 6 doesn't deserve an auto IMO. Being crowned the champ of 5 other teams?

Amen.

[I-AA Fan]

So what? 'History' can't give you a permanent lock on a playoff spot, no matter how far behind you fall, if other schools are improving themselves

That IS what happens now

Why not? So what you are really saying is 16 teams, no structure? Many do … I do not. It is this structure that will cause teams to improve themselves ... not a socialized football division that promotes because we fans "say" they deserve it.


and that's already been an accusation on this forum by some posters from the lesser conferences, that the power conferences want to maintain a monopoly on the playoffs

No monopoly, just a reward for the expense of scholarship-based football, of which, the 'lesser' are not. They made their choice. Again, why take away everything from those that have ... to provide for those that have not. I give to my church and the needing ... but not at the expense of my current obligations. The NCAA should do the same. Increase the field, then offer the GWFC and Big South thier bids.


Of course, the PFL and MAAC schools were made I-AA by rule (the NEC football league was formed after the rule) and the GWFC knew the rule that you want to ignore - that automatic bids are awarded on a two-year option (there's a one-year warning that a conference may lose its auto-bid). Are you saying that if a college grows from 3,000 to 17,000 students, or no matter how much it improves its team, it must either continue to play D-III or D-II schools or else be forever doomed to compete for an at-large bid (existing conferences won't infinitely expand their membership)?

In short, the answer to your question is “yes” and "no". Division-level is a matter for the individual school to decide upon, and then granted or denied by the NCAA. There is no rule that says a school of a certain size must be DI. Actually size has very little to do with it (ask Wofford). Although size could change as a “result” of this.



Probably not, since they're not yet eligible by the rules.

A conference has to submit an application to the NCAA in order to be formally recognized. Without this, there is no “eligibility” to have, or “rules” to follow. That is what I asked if the GWFC had done. I have since discovered they submitted early this fall, and have yet to be formally recognized.


And one factor holding back the non-bid conferences now is that they can't tell recruits they may be competing for a national championship. Welcome to our world

Thanks for the warm welcome. I have been in your world since 1982 … nice to be finally welcomed. Non-bid conferences (with two very recent exceptions) chose to be non-scholarship in FB, as they want to place emphasis on other sports or academics. This is what they sell recruits by their own choice. These schools have a great number of NCAA athletes (non-football) that are happy with that choice.


So we can agree on something

Yes we can.

[Sly Fox]

Hey, if the minumum number of schools were bumped up there would instantly by conferences folding overnight as schools from leagues like the Big South finally get invites.

But I find it interesting that all the calls for raising the minimum seem to be coming from A-10/CAA schools. Its hardly a coincidence.

As for Savannah State, the Big South commish may admit to having "discussion" with them. But as bad as our current setup may be, its not worth bringing that mess of a school into our loop just to be auto-bid eligible.

[GannonFan]

But I find it interesting that all the calls for raising the minimum seem to be coming from A-10/CAA schools. Its hardly a coincidence.



Come on, you're just trying to stir something that isn't there - in this thread one guy from one A10/CAA school made a mention about wanting to raise the minimum and one other guy from a Great West Conference (notice, they don't even have an auto-bid either) agreed. You're just trying to create a conspiracy where one doesn't exist. The minimum that's in place now has been there for some time so everytime the Big South complains about not having an auto-bid they can only look at themselves and their inability to get one more team as the reason they don't have an auto. When the GWFC comes into play with the minimum amount of teams, I would bet a fair amount of money that the playoffs would expand to 24 teams with a 1st week bye for 8 teams. Still, the Big South would need another member to get an auto. Right now, there is no evidence of any scholarship IAA conference (the non-schollies, DIII-type schools are a different matter) that meets the minumum that is not getting an auto bid that wants it. Get a sixth team and then moan about conspiracies and the like.

[gophoenix]

The Big South should be eligible in 2009, unless Coastal leaves. I think it's pretty much a done deal that Presbyterian will be there in 2006. Wait, or is it 2007. I can;t remember which year they said they are going to be provisional DI.

Granted, there have been a handful of better DII schools that have moved up (UNC, SDSU, NDSU, Elon, GWU, Presby, WSSU and not so good Morris Brown and SSU) but really it is only a small moveup. Football schools seem slower to move up than non-football schools for some reason.

Who are the next likely? NC Central perhaps. But who else is talking about it? I;ve heard of no one. So panicing that a few schools moved up is a little rash at the moment.