What is a fair analogy?

[IndianaAppMan]

It seems like FCS football is often treated in the media as though the quality is like high school ball when you compared to Top 25 FBS teams. Of course, their reasoning is full of BS, but I wonder what would be fair...

Maybe like A high school football versus AAAA or AAAAA football. A very strong A team (analagous to Cal Poly) can and perhaps should beat a poor AAAAA team (analagous to San Diego State), but normally A teams won't beaten their larger counterparts.

Is that fair?

I'm just sick of the ignorance that pervades in the media. Granted, FCS teams had their butts whupped on a large scale this week, but it's still absurd the way our brand of football is devalued. I mean, hello? The Michigan game was no fluke. Joe Flacco didn't accidentally get drafted first round. Jerry Rice, Shannon Sharp, Rich Gannon, Brian Westbrook, etc, didn't accidentally come from 1-AA teams. Our brand of football deserves respect.

(Keep in mind I'm coming from the perspective where the only FCS team is lousy Indiana State. I live near Purdue and go to school at a MAC school, so putting down FCS football is prevalent here.)

[DSUrocks07]

It seems like FCS football is often treated in the media as though the quality is like high school ball when you compared to Top 25 FBS teams. Of course, their reasoning is full of BS, but I wonder what would be fair...

Maybe like A high school football versus AAAA or AAAAA football. A very strong A team (analagous to Cal Poly) can and perhaps should beat a poor AAAAA team (analagous to San Diego State), but normally A teams won't beaten their larger counterparts.

Is that fair?

I'm just sick of the ignorance that pervades in the media. Granted, FCS teams had their butts whupped on a large scale this week, but it's still absurd the way our brand of football is devalued. I mean, hello? The Michigan game was no fluke. Joe Flacco didn't accidentally get drafted first round. Jerry Rice, Shannon Sharp, Rich Gannon, Brian Westbrook, etc, didn't accidentally come from 1-AA teams. Our brand of football deserves respect.

(Keep in mind I'm coming from the perspective where the only FCS team is lousy Indiana State. I live near Purdue and go to school at a MAC school, so putting down FCS football is prevalent here.)

I can agree with that. But there is a reason we are scheduled as a "warm-up" game. Its about recruits, its about scholarships, and its about the money and audience that the BCS(FBS) schools bring to the game.

I equate it more to a beer drinker(BCS/FBS) and a wine drinker(FCS)...a beer drinker drinks beer regularly and when he drinks wine it all tastes the same, while a wine drinker can appreciate the subtle differences of each different type.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

I can agree with that. But there is a reason we are scheduled as a "warm-up" game. Its about recruits, its about scholarships, and its about the money and audience that the BCS(FBS) schools bring to the game.

I equate it more to a beer drinker(BCS/FBS) and a wine drinker(FCS)...a beer drinker drinks beer regularly and when he drinks wine it all tastes the same, while a wine drinker can appreciate the subtle differences of each different type.

And when you don't give wine the proper respect it deserves, beer drinkers will often find themselves in a stupor wondering, "What happened!!? Damn, that wine sure kicked my ass!" xlolx xlolx xlolx

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

The nomenclature and classification guidelines are so different state-by-state, that it wouldn't do much good to try and compare it with high school ball. This is the way I look at it. Here is the kind of point differential (negative ones favor FBS teams) I think there should be in each matchup.

(Legit upper top 25 FBS, Legit lower top 25 FBS,upper half of unranked FBS teams, lower half of unranked FBS teams)

Legit Top 10 FCS (-30 - -20, -17 - -10, -3 - +7, +10 and above)
Legit 11-25 FCS ( -42 - -31, -28 - -17, -17 - -3, +3 and above)
Upper quarter of unranked FCS (-56 - -42, -38 - -28, -21 - -10, -10 - +3)

[Retro]

Here's a good analogy...

Heavyweight Fighter vs Junior Heavyweight fighter... Different weight class, but a good junior heavyweight can beat the heavyweight at anytime given the talent and strategy..

[UNCBears2010]

I see European soccer as a good comparison for FBS/FCS. In England for example, there is the Premiership and the Coca-Cola Championship League below it. A good Championship League team can hang with, and even occasionally beat, anyone in the Premiership, but a bad Championship team is likely to get pounded by anyone in the Premiership, and when you get a good Championship League team against a bad team from the Premiership, the playing field is pretty much level and anything can happen.

[Seawolf97]

It is diffcult to make a real comparison due to the money issue and number of scholarships we can offer versus the BCS teams. No matter how good an FCS team is they are are not on level playing field in terms of dollars or number of quality players they can field. And yes we will have our great players going into the NFL every season but then look at the number of BCS players filling NFL rosters its no match.
We are going to get our wins each season against FBS/BCs teams but we couldnt sustain that level of play for a 12 game season without more scholarships and more money. Unfortunately thats the reality we face.

[DFW HOYA]

Don't underestimate the role in recruiting either. No matter how one can spin it, I-AA schools aren't competing with the top level of I-A schools for talent, and that talent ultimately is reflective of the scores when these teams (occasionally) meet.

[FiniteMan]

It seems like FCS football is often treated in the media as though the quality is like high school ball when you compared to Top 25 FBS teams. Of course, their reasoning is full of BS, but I wonder what would be fair...

Maybe like A high school football versus AAAA or AAAAA football. A very strong A team (analagous to Cal Poly) can and perhaps should beat a poor AAAAA team (analagous to San Diego State), but normally A teams won't beaten their larger counterparts.

Is that fair?...

I have a friend who watches EVERY game he can find of college football and he said something that was quite insightful and simply put. He said that people underestimate depth in looking at college football. That is the difference between each team.

Scholarship limit tiers:
BCS/FCS=85
FCS= usually near 65
non-scholarship FCS and DII - 0 to 30 or 40

Now consider recruiting tiers (essentially how a recruit might group schools)
Elite BCS (UT, UF, USC, Georgia, etc.)
upper BCS (Michigan, Penn State, etc.)
mid BCS (Mich, Indiana, Washington, Kansas, etc.)
Elite FBS(TCU, BYU, Utah, etc.)
Lower BCS;Upper FBS (Baylor, Northwestern, Boise, Hawaii, Fresno, UCF, etc.)
Middle FBS; elite FCS (CUSA, UNM, CSU, FAU, Troy, App. State, etc.)
Lower FBS; upper FCS (Sunbelt, Lower WAC, MAC, Delaware, NDSU, Montana, etc.)
DII elite (Grand Valley State)
Middle FCS; (call it the Full scholarship, but undistinguished FCS;
Lower FCS; upper DII (Pioneer, Patriot, half of the Lone star conference)

Based on that, you might reach the conclusion that just in terms of talent, knowledge, dedication and skills you would likely see a declining percentage of D1 caliber players as you drop down each level.

Lets say...

Elite BCS --- 55/85
Top BCS --- 45/85
mid BCS --- 40/85
Elite FBS --- 38/85
Lower BCS; Upper FBS --- 33/85
Middle FBS; 27/85
Lower FBS --- 23/85
elite FCS --- 27/65
upper FCS --- 23/65
Middle FCS --- 17/65
Lower FCS --- 12/0
DII elite --- 22/30
upper DII --- 12/30

Now to make matchups even tougher, the BCS school's #55 player is usually miles ahead of the FCS school's #20 player in his development. For FCS and DII schools they have to put their players on eating and workout plans to get them up to a point were they can play and hold their own. They may only get 1-2 years out of those players where potentially an FBS school might land quality 3-4 year starters.

If you start looking at it like that it really changes the way you see the games. The Hawaii/Georgia game for example was a perfect illustration of this matched with bad matchups. Georgia is an elite level BCS school. They have D1 talent 3 deep on their defense. Their front seven kept cycling people in and just destroyed Hawaii. Hawaii was used to playing schools with defenses that were one or two deep. Usually their opponents lose their pass rushing steam in the 2nd quarter or so and then Hawaii starts breaking big plays. That is how they compete. They basically weather the storm early.

Against Georgia, the Bulldogs didn't lose any steam off their passrush until the start of the fourth quarter. There were 2 horrific potential matchups for UH last season in their BCS bowl ---Georgia and USC. Both were loaded with D1 players in their front 7 depth chart. Hawaii got the worst matchup on darned near their home feild. Sometimes that happens.

Apps state on the other hand ran into this with a good matchup vs. Michigan. Michigan had great depth of talent, but not so much in any area that created an untenable situation.

If you look at schools like UCA and the Dakota's rise it seems that you probably could quantify it in some manner like this. (Frankly, I would love to see a Grand Valley State vs. App. State game. Or GVS playing a MAC schedule. I suspect they would be suprisingly competitive. As App. State proved, a reasonable talent level combined with good coaching and an expectation of success can let lesser teams beat more talented ones --- if the team with more talent isn't overloaded at an area they can't use to beat an opponent into submission like Georgia did UH.)

[FiniteMan]

The Sangarin rankings aren't awful for what they are and do rate D1 together... (from 2007)

1. LSU 94.21
7. Georgia 89.83
21. Michigan 82.27
35. Hawaii 78.10
44. App. State 75.73
62. N. Iowa 72.33
71. NDSU 68.80
78. FAU 67.78

But matchups would be huge when dealing with different depth levels. Hawaii got dusted by georgia because of superior depth, leading many to say App. State was better, but would App. State have been able to control Hawaii's passing game if they had played each other? No. App. State's pass rush was not better than anything UH faced in the WAC and App State would not have had the corners to hold down UH's receivers. UH would have been App. State's Georgia.

On the flip side schools like (#16) Oregon State and (#14) Arizona State might have been beaten by a school like App. State. Basically, if the depth advantage is masked enough to allow an elite level school with less depth to hang around, they will compete and might just win.

Wouldn't it be great if FBS schools were REQUIRED to host 2 games vs. FCS schools each year? Imagine the crunch of non-bcs elite who would be pushing to schedule the #5 to #20 FCS schools -- probably not focused enough to win, but good enough to help their strength of schedule. That alone would be a tremendous financial boon to the FCS level and would help keep a lot of the better schools at this level.

[patssle]

It seems like FCS football is often treated in the media as though the quality is like high school ball when you compared to Top 25 FBS teams.

Well, when you do compare FCS football to the upper 25 FBS programs, we ARE almost like highschool if you want to make comparisons using that analogy. That's not a bad thing, but lets be realistic here, we all spend a couple million bucks, play in stadiums that hold 10-20k, sell a couple thousand season tickets. Top 25 schools spend tens of millions of dollars on football, play in stadiums that hold 100k, and sell tens of thousands of season tickets.

FCS is NOTHING near the level that the top 25 FBS is at.

Now as in the brand of football, thats a whole different arguement on who is better. Playoffs or bowls, corruption or classy. I'll take FCS anyday.

[patssle]

Here's a good analogy...

Heavyweight Fighter vs Junior Heavyweight fighter... Different weight class, but a good junior heavyweight can beat the heavyweight at anytime given the talent and strategy..

I disagree. FCS does not beat quality FBS teams anytime anywhere. Its rare. Plus FBS is not entirely a heavyweight fighter. There are glorified junior heavyweights (Rice, ULL, ULM, for schools that the SLC have beat) that pretend to be FBS, then there are legit heavyweights.

[PaladinFan]

Let's face it, we follow a lesser brand of football. I follow my university because I spent four great years there, love the football team, love the traditions, love everything about it. However, we aren't Clemson. We don't draw 80k to a game. The media doesn't care. And you know, I'm ok with it.

People need to accept the FCS for what it is. It is your schools that you love playing ball. So many get worked up with how the media portrays us. It won't change.

Our fans and coaches don't see it as a contest. App state got blasted by LSU (no matter how you spin it) and they remained the top team in the country. This follows what I said earlier, the national media cares little except for the teams in a select few conferences. Unless we beat those teams (which the FCS doesn't) then we will never get the media exposure we all covet.

It is what it is.

[IndianaAppMan]

Let's face it, we follow a lesser brand of football. I follow my university because I spent four great years there, love the football team, love the traditions, love everything about it. However, we aren't Clemson. We don't draw 80k to a game. The media doesn't care. And you know, I'm ok with it.

People need to accept the FCS for what it is. It is your schools that you love playing ball. So many get worked up with how the media portrays us. It won't change.

Our fans and coaches don't see it as a contest. App state got blasted by LSU (no matter how you spin it) and they remained the top team in the country. This follows what I said earlier, the national media cares little except for the teams in a select few conferences. Unless we beat those teams (which the FCS doesn't) then we will never get the media exposure we all covet.

It is what it is.

For what it's worth, Furman DOES at least get decent media coverage at the local level. Among college teams, it's a distant third to SC and Clemson in the Greenville News and on WYFF, but the coverage for your 1-AA team is far better than what is done here in Indiana.

In fact, Furman coverage in Greenville is about even with Purdue coverage out of Indianapolis. It's ahead of nearby Ball State, and, frankly, I've never heard the media mention the words "Indiana State," Indiana's sole scholarship FCS school, without the words "Larry Bird" in the same sentence. Not bad when you consider that WYFF's media market reaches more people than does Indy's.