Will Elon ever score on Richmond?

[URMite]

Just having fun with the fact that they haven't yet in 80 years... only meeting was a UR win at Elon 34-0 in 1928.xlolx

<4 hours until we see if either team's defense can complete my keys to the game.
Richmond needs to get constant pressure on Riddle. Last year's defense had trouble maintaining coverage for long stretches if the opposing QB was comfortable in the pocket.
And Elon needs to disrupt Richmond's running game. Although I expect the Richmond offense to be more balanced this year (and continue to shift to the passing game the next 2), I don't see our passing game being able to be successful unless the running game is a serious threat.

[phoenixphanatic21]

Nice bit of stat searching there. And don't worry. We'll score plenty tonight to make up for not playing you guys in 80 years. I'd say a point for every 2 years.

It iwll be very interesting to see which defense steps up tonight. If it becomes a big defensive matchup, I'd have to give the advantage to Richmond. But if it becomes a shootout, I'd have to give the advantage to us. So that's my key. Whichever defense steps up tonight will determine the winner of this game.

[SoCon48]

Just having fun with the fact that they haven't yet in 80 years... only meeting was a UR win at Elon 34-0 in 1928.xlolx

<4 hours until we see if either team's defense can complete my keys to the game.
Richmond needs to get constant pressure on Riddle. Last year's defense had trouble maintaining coverage for long stretches if the opposing QB was comfortable in the pocket.
And Elon needs to disrupt Richmond's running game. Although I expect the Richmond offense to be more balanced this year (and continue to shift to the passing game the next 2), I don't see our passing game being able to be successful unless the running game is a serious threat.

Just guessing, I'd say Elon puts up 4 TD's. Now whether that's enough or not, that's another question.

[IndianaAppMan]

Go Elon! They'll be my saving grace for football games this weekend if they can pull it off!

[URMite]

Just guessing, I'd say Elon puts up 4 TD's. Now whether that's enough or not, that's another question.

I'm not sure it would, unless they figure out what Towson did last year (We had 14 with 5 min left).

If they get 4 I hope we could keep up with them. If it is 5 or 6 then I would be a lot more worried. My best scenario would be - we establish an early running game that get more balanced as the game goes along and get enough pressure for a 45-28 victory.

[mad_dog97]

Not sure if this is the official in game thread, but what's happening here?

I see on ESPN that Richmond scored on a 80 yard pass but don't have any other news.

I'm trying to following along with this game while listening to JMU/Duke, but that is in a lightning delay right now. Sounds like the game won't start until 8:15 (scheduled start was 7:00)

[SFspidur]

Elon's getting some good-yardage catches from their receivers, but not enough to sustain a drive yet. Two big sacks by the Spiders have been key to killing off the Elon threat.

Ward-to-Grayson for the 80-yard TD. Sounded like Grayson made a nice cutback and got a nice downfield block from the TE to break it.

Ward 7-of-10, 120 yards. Riddle 9-of-12, 75 yards. Elon with -19 yards rushing.

Spiders 1st and goal at the 5 now after marching down the field again.

Edit: Josh Vaughan TD run. 14-0 Spiders.

[Bettina90]

Yes, they will.

[YoUDeeMan]

Yes, they did. UR 14 Elon 7.

[YoUDeeMan]

http://richmondspiders.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/rich-m-footbl-body.html

Just click on LISTEN.

[Elon Fightin' Christians]

game webcast is on socontv. go to www.soconsports.com. $4.95 for single game. Good quality.

[RabidRabbit]

Richmond up 21-10 at end of 3rd qtr.

listening on the Richmond webcast. Thanks Cluck U!

[PaladinFan]

Figured this would have been a much higher scoring affair.

[RabidRabbit]

Elon turnover leads to 62 yd romp by Josh Voighn? 28 -10 Spiders. 12:35 left in game.

[gophoenix]

Old Elon is back! Woohoo! xrolleyesx

[YoUDeeMan]

Elon dodged a bullet. It apears they can't handle Ward or Vaughn.

[BeauFoster]

Figured this would have been a much higher scoring affair.

No kidding! Elon only scores 10 through 3 qtrs?

[ChickenMan]

Richmond up 28-10.. 2:00 minutes left... UR dominating both the scoreboard and the stats. Total yards Richmond.. 446 vs Elon.. 264

[PaladinFan]

No kidding! Elon only scores 10 through 3 qtrs?

It would appear Elon might not be as a real deal as they originally thought. Still no running game. Still no defense.

[gophoenix]

It would appear Elon might not be as a real deal as they originally thought. Still no running game. Still no defense.

Here's an idea. Play someone in D-I before commenting on how well any of the rest of us played.

[YoUDeeMan]

No kidding! Elon only scores 10 through 3 qtrs?

Only 10 for the game.

28-10 final.

It wasn't that close.

[WrenFGun]

As I had predicted, I expected Richmond would roll. They are just really, really go. The CAA South is going to be hell on wheels.

[BeauFoster]

Richmond up 28-10.. 2:00 minutes left... UR dominating both the scoreboard and the stats. Total yards Richmond.. 446 vs Elon.. 264


I guess I was living in a dream world thinking that Elon was actually for real. Boy did they prove me wrong!

[PaladinFan]

Here's an idea. Play someone in D-I before commenting on how well any of the rest of us played.

No offense meant, friend. Good luck next week. We'll get our chances to be criticized. Don't worry about that.

[gophoenix]

No offense meant, friend. Good luck next week. We'll get our chances to be criticized. Don't worry about that.

Sorry, just pissed off because this performance reminded me of pre-Lembo years.

[Bettina90]

Ah, yet another SoCo pow wow on how it couldn't be possible a team from out of their beloved conference could actually be good. I hope Elon hangs 50 on ASU if they play this year.

[ngineer]

While everyone has been expecting a tremendous scoring affair, if a team is too one dimensional it can be defensed regardless of having some stars. Good luck to both teams as the season rolls on. Looking forward to seeing this year's Elon-Citadel game with all the former 'Brown & White' coaches on both sidelines.xnodx

[BeauFoster]

Ah, yet another SoCo pow wow on how it couldn't be possible a team from out of their beloved conference could actually be good. I hope Elon hangs 50 on ASU if they play this year.

Sour grapes?






xbawlingx

[Mountaineer]

xlolx

Gotta love the guys who shows up in November 2007 (right around playoff time xbandwagonx ) and proceeds to talk smack. xthumbsupx

Congrats on the win against Elon! xnodx

[Bettina90]

Sour grapes?






xbawlingx




Not at all. You are the one claiming that Elon can't be "for real" since they lost to Richmond 28-10 at home, after Richmond's returns about 90% of the team that had ASU tied in the 4th quarter last year.

[Bettina90]

xlolx

Gotta love the guys who shows up in November 2007 (right around playoff time xbandwagonx ) and proceeds to talk smack. xthumbsupx

Congrats on the win against Elon! xnodx



So if someone did not make it to this All-knowing board prior to that date (which I did, actually), they could not be any kind of real fan? Gotcha. And that's "smack"?


I am sure you are well aware that Elon tonight faced two DE's that are Richmond's normal starters but were hurt for the playoff game in Boone last year. Of course you are, you are such a "real" FCS fan.

[Mountaineer]

Huh?? Could you be any less coherent.

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

Whatever you say Mr. xbandwagonx guy. xthumbsupx

[appst97]

Ah, yet another SoCo pow wow on how it couldn't be possible a team from out of their beloved conference could actually be good. I hope Elon hangs 50 on ASU if they play this year.

See ya in November, Bye Bye

[BeauFoster]

Not at all. You are the one claiming that Elon can't be "for real" since they lost to Richmond 28-10 at home, after Richmond's returns about 90% of the team that had ASU tied in the 4th quarter last year.

What is wrong with my post? Everyone, including myself, thought that Elon was going to give UR a good game and they didn't. Because of this game, and the descriptions contained within this site, I don't think Elon will contend for an NC this season.

[Bettina90]

Well, I don't think anyone really thought they would. Big difference between that and being a good FCS team.

[Eight Legger]

Very impressed with our effort tonight, but it's about what I expected. Elon had twice as many players cramp up on the field as they scored points in this game. By the end of the game I was embarrassed for them. Have they been training in a dome all summer?? We had one cramp, to (my guess) 25 for the Phoenix.

Aside from a total blown coverage on their one TD, Elon didn't really threaten the endzone at all. And we gift-wrapped the other three points on a blocked punt right before halftime.

Apparently it is possible to hold this team under 30 points at home, even though no one seemed to think we could do it a week ago. I won't even get into the absurd and mind-boggling "officiating" we had to watch. What middle school league were those guys from? Unreal.

Good luck the rest of the way Phoenix...I hope you win them all!

[phoenixphanatic21]

I don't see why everyone is jumping off our bandwagon already. We had one poor showing against one of the best FCS teams. Honestly, I feel the game would've been much different if the refs had made the right call on Hudgins TD catch. I'm still trying to figure out how that was called incomplete. He catches it at like the 5, crosses the endzone with it, has control of it, and then all of the sudden, it is incomplete? xconfusedx xconfusedx xconfusedx That could've really changed the entire game. It would have given us a 17-14 lead and we would have had all momentum on all our side after that. After that call, you could just feel the team just seemed out of it, like they couldn't recover from it, which worries me quite a bit.

Not to take anything away from the Spiders. They played very well and deserved that victory. I wish them the best through the rest of the season. Though I must ask, as much as we were cramping up, did you guys have to cheer and chant everytime someone got hurt? xnonox

I'm not too worried about us just yet. Pissed off about the game, yes. But Coach Lembo will get us back on track and we will be just fine. And question, who said we had a shot at a NC? Because I don't ever remember hearing that nor did I expect that. Anyway, that's my thoughts on the game.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

I was waiting for this...

Two things:

1- You cannot complain about the officiating. Look at the disparity in penalties. Also, remember that absurd play where the officials convened for 2 minutes, said our runner was down and THEN gave you the ball? They also called an holding penalty on us on a DIVE play! HUH?!

2- Your players were not hurt. They were cramping ... after every other play!! Sometimes multiple of them were cramping at the same time! If our players showed that lack of conditioning, I would have been embarassed. If any of your players were seriously hurt, you would not have heard a peep from us.


I don't see why everyone is jumping off our bandwagon already. We had one poor showing against one of the best FCS teams. Honestly, I feel the game would've been much different if the refs had made the right call on Hudgins TD catch. I'm still trying to figure out how that was called incomplete. He catches it at like the 5, crosses the endzone with it, has control of it, and then all of the sudden, it is incomplete? xconfusedx xconfusedx xconfusedx That could've really changed the entire game. It would have given us a 17-14 lead and we would have had all momentum on all our side after that. After that call, you could just feel the team just seemed out of it, like they couldn't recover from it, which worries me quite a bit.

Not to take anything away from the Spiders. They played very well and deserved that victory. I wish them the best through the rest of the season. Though I must ask, as much as we were cramping up, did you guys have to cheer and chant everytime someone got hurt? xnonox

I'm not too worried about us just yet. Pissed off about the game, yes. But Coach Lembo will get us back on track and we will be just fine. And question, who said we had a shot at a NC? Because I don't ever remember hearing that nor did I expect that. Anyway, that's my thoughts on the game.

[phoenixphanatic21]

I was waiting for this...

Two things:

1- You cannot complain about the officiating. Look at the disparity in penalties. Also, remember that absurd play where the officials convened for 2 minutes, said our runner was down and THEN gave you the ball? They also called an holding penalty on us on a DIVE play! HUH?!

2- Your players were not hurt. They were cramping ... after every other play!! Sometimes multiple of them were cramping at the same time! If our players showed that lack of conditioning, I would have been embarassed. If any of your players were seriously hurt, you would not have heard a peep from us.

1. Those refs had no idea what they were talking about at any point last night, honestly. They were bad on both sides. The referee said the wrong things a lot. Like the time he called a holding on the defense when he meant offense. And on that play you were talking about, I have no idea what he was trying to say. It's almost laughable how bad those refs were. The referees we have had at our games have never been the brightest...or really good either, not that I really expect too much from them. I can't count the number of calls I've seen them mess up at all the Elon games I've been too. So, I'm really complaining about the officiating from the game. I'm just trying to understand why that was called incomplete because for the life of me, I cannot understand it.

2. From what I've heard, at least one or two of our guys got hurt. And I don't know what was with all the cramping. I thought we've better working out a little hard at least. Maybe I was wrong? I don't know. But I'm glad to hear you guys would be quiet then.

[Eight Legger]

I honestly couldn't tell what the call was on that Hudgins play...the replay looked like the ball might have been coming out, but it was from a bad angle and I couldn't tell for sure.

The worst call was when an Elon guy blew up our returner just as he was about to catch a punt, and they picked up the flag! What? When did that become a legal play?? The Elon guy was all alone -- no one pushed him into our return man. That one was just the icing on the cake for that pathetic ref crew.

[Millwoch]

22 yards rushing...come on Elon that is pitiful.

Plus your D was on the field 10 longer than Richmonds...No wonder you were cramping. And I have heard it argued that time of possession does not matter.

[Elon Fightin' Christians]

[QUOTE=BigHouseClosedEnd;1081474]I was waiting for this...


1- You cannot complain about the officiating. Look at the disparity in penalties. Also, remember that absurd play where the officials convened for 2 minutes, said our runner was down and THEN gave you the ball? They also called an holding penalty on us on a DIVE play! HUH?!

QUOTE]

The question on that play was whether or not the ELON player was down after he recovered the fumble and where to spot the ball, not whether the RICHMOND player was down. It was clearly a fumble.

The non-TD on the Hudgins play was a horrible call.

With that said RICHMOND outplayed us and deserved to win. Elon couldn't capitalize on the numerous times they had the ball in the RICHMOND end of the field. Our DEF played good but our OFF was clearly out-of-sync and our play calling wasn't good either.

Good win RICHMOND. I hope we see you again in the playoffs.

[redspider]

I was very impressed by our teams performance especially on offense it seemed there was so much more ease this year for us to score we dont just havt to rely on the run game. Instead we have really opened up the pass play book. Ward looked impressive also he has definietly matured. I think that we are def going to the playoffs again. We ended up dominating against a team I thought would be one of our toughest opponents this season. Now I hope you can at least put up a good fight against Virginia.

[URMite]

I think everyone will agree the officiating was bad. And I'm hoping that is what caused the high number of penalties. (Penalties and special teams were our weak points last night)

What I'm wondering is what caused the outcome? was it simply the humidity & being the 1st game? Are we better than expected? Is Elon worse?

Is Elon still considered the 2nd best team in the socon? Do some publications still think we are the 3rd best in the caa south?

Of course, the caa people will say Elon is 2nd in the socon and we are that much better. The socon people will say Elon can't be that good to be that much worse than Richmond.

I think we will see the answer lies somewhere in between.

[ur2k]

We also had a late TD by Ward on a long run called back with a holding call, we didn't like that call like you guys didn't like the call on the dropped ball in the end zone

And to the Elon fan talking about us heckling your injured players - those guys weren't injured, they were taking 5 minutes each to get off the field from cramping - after every play in the 4th quarter. We wouldn't say anything if guys were hurt - but your guys need to do some running or drink more gatorade.

Anyway my thoughts on the game:
- Elon should be good - Riddle and Hudgins look like big-time players. But the lack of a running game will kill you guys.
- Eric Ward is probably the most underrated QB at this level. I'll take him any day of the week over some of the other options. He came up huge last night and would have had better stats if three easy passes weren't dropped by his receivers.
- Our d-line is going to cause some havoc this year, they are big and fast and get after it.
- I really liked the stadium at Elon, very nice place to watch a game. I'm happy that this is one of the ones we looked at for reference when doing early plans of our new stadium.

[spdram]

First, Elon fans are a classy bunch I look forward to playing Elon again.

Second, I think both teams can agree the officiating was a mystery last night. FWIW what I understood of the TD called back against Elon was that he never had control of the ball until after it hit the ground. I couldn't see enough on the play or the replay to say if it was enough. But then I guess they evened it out by calling the TD back on Richmond.

Third, I was in the middle of the Richmond fans and only heard one neagative comment about Elon players cramping. That was responded to by Richmond fans essentially telling him to shut up. What I heard was Richmond fans clapping in support and respect each time an injured player walked off of the field.

I thought we did a great job of taking you out of your offense, we forced you to run alot more than you wanted. You did a great job of taking the middle from us. Your line had more success than I expected (on both sides of the ball). You also did a great job against us on special teams. You showed us what we need to work on if we truly want to compete for a NC. Thanks for the game it was a great way to start the season.

Eric Ward continues to grow as a QB. I was impressed by your RB, he has a hoss. We your QB on the run most of the night, but when he had time he was great.

Wish you luck the rest of the season, hope you make it to the playoffs. Look forward to playing again.

[gophoenix]

All right Elon fans, time to shut up. Richmond is underrated and we are way overrated.

1) Richmond dominated because they are that good and we are not a top 25 caliber team.
2) Officiating really wasn't that bad. There were some bad calls, but that is every game every year everywhere. None of the calls were game changing and it is crybaby BS for any of us to complain about it.
3) As good as the Richmond offense is, I can't credit the entire outcome to them. Our conditioning is horrendous. Over 25 cramped players on defense!!! Come on, that is PATHETIC.
4) Riddle has slumped, there has been no accuracy from him since the spring game.
5) Our OL can't stop anything. As soon as a team puts up half the talent that Richmond has at DE, we're in BIG trouble.
6) AJ Harris is a pretty good RB and should eventually open up a running game for us. But the line has got to step up to do this.
7) The team didn't play like they cared and their doesn't appear to be any discipline.

So, enough said. We are not the 2nd place SoCon team. With effort like last night, we may be in the bottom 3.

PS -> I TOLD Elon you people time of possession was key and no one listened.

[gophoenix]

I honestly couldn't tell what the call was on that Hudgins play...the replay looked like the ball might have been coming out, but it was from a bad angle and I couldn't tell for sure.

As for the reffing. I got to see the replays up close.

1) The fumble was a fumble and the replay showed it. They were discussing where to spot the ball. It was the right call.
2) The Hudgins TD. The Elon fan in me says BS. The replay didn't have a good angle, it looked like he had it. None of the refs were in position to see it well either. If there is doubt, the play on the field stands and it is the right call.
3) The Elon guy into the returner. I was listening to the broadcast and they quoted some ruling from last year and why that wasn't a penalty. So, I think this was right.
4) One of the pass interference calls on Richmond was complete garbage. When the ball is thrown out of bounds, the ball isn't catchable and therefore no penalty.

Those are the big 4 questionable calls that I remember. So, if you ask me, just one BS call overall and none of them are game changing.

We were beaten soundly by a good team. And our team didn't play like the gave a d@mn. Suck it up Elon guys. Its going to be a long season.

[BeauFoster]

I don't know the circumstances around the punt return no-call, cause I ended up not making the game, but I think that the halo rule is no longer enforced. I don't know if that means you can hit a guy before he has the ball.

[Eight Legger]

They may have changed a rule, but I can't imagine that the new rule says it is permissable to drill a guy head-on as he is about to catch a punt, and that's what happened last night. The only thing I can figure is that none of the officials saw exactly how it happened (?) and assumed that it was incidental contact.

[ngineer]

All right Elon fans, time to shut up. Richmond is underrated and we are way overrated.

1) Richmond dominated because they are that good and we are not a top 25 caliber team.
2) Officiating really wasn't that bad. There were some bad calls, but that is every game every year everywhere. None of the calls were game changing and it is crybaby BS for any of us to complain about it.
3) As good as the Richmond offense is, I can't credit the entire outcome to them. Our conditioning is horrendous. Over 25 cramped players on defense!!! Come on, that is PATHETIC.
4) Riddle has slumped, there has been no accuracy from him since the spring game.
5) Our OL can't stop anything. As soon as a team puts up half the talent that Richmond has at DE, we're in BIG trouble.
6) AJ Harris is a pretty good RB and should eventually open up a running game for us. But the line has got to step up to do this.
7) The team didn't play like they cared and their doesn't appear to be any discipline.
So, enough said. We are not the 2nd place SoCon team. With effort like last night, we may be in the bottom 3.

PS -> I TOLD Elon you people time of possession was key and no one listened.

Surprising and sobering observation for an opener when everyone should be geared up! Maybe too many people reading their clippings? Still UR had a lot coming back from last year, so no one should have taken them lightly.
One of things I remember from the Lembo years, here, is that we took an awful lot of stupid penalties that cost us tremendous field position or even possession. To me, that's coaching and getting your message of discipline across to the players. I would hope that turns around right quick or it could steamroll.

[Phoenix87]

First off, hats off to the Richmond Spiders. Your team played a heck of a game and I don't see many teams at this level being able to handle either of your lines, and that quarterback of yours may be one of the best in the FCS. He did an outstanding job running your offense.

Overall, I think Elon fans are running scared and just falling back in to the negative attitudes of the years that we sucked.

There were some mistakes the team made; and ones that will be fixed. When we did make the mistakes Richmond jumped all over them and capitalized.

And having our starting lb's out with cramps and even more players on defense suffering with cramps, we just didn't have enough bodies to keep throwing in the game and get the D off the field.

In the first half I feel that talent wise the teams were very close at the skill positions. In the end though, the play of Richmond's offensive and especially defensive line was too much for the young Phoenix squad to handle.

I do believe that Richmond will be the first or second best team on our schedule and that Elon will make the necessary adjustments and bounce back.

I don't think the team will compete for a national champ at all this year but I do think we will be able to compete in the conference and make a run at the playoffs. We are definitely not a top 10 team, but think we are a top 16 team.

[phoenixphanatic21]

All right Elon fans, time to shut up. Richmond is underrated and we are way overrated.

1) Richmond dominated because they are that good and we are not a top 25 caliber team.
2) Officiating really wasn't that bad. There were some bad calls, but that is every game every year everywhere. None of the calls were game changing and it is crybaby BS for any of us to complain about it.
3) As good as the Richmond offense is, I can't credit the entire outcome to them. Our conditioning is horrendous. Over 25 cramped players on defense!!! Come on, that is PATHETIC.
4) Riddle has slumped, there has been no accuracy from him since the spring game.
5) Our OL can't stop anything. As soon as a team puts up half the talent that Richmond has at DE, we're in BIG trouble.
6) AJ Harris is a pretty good RB and should eventually open up a running game for us. But the line has got to step up to do this.
7) The team didn't play like they cared and their doesn't appear to be any discipline.

So, enough said. We are not the 2nd place SoCon team. With effort like last night, we may be in the bottom 3.

PS -> I TOLD Elon you people time of possession was key and no one listened.

Umm wow buddy. Calm down. It's just one game. That doesn't mean this is a lost season. I think we will bounce back well from this game. I don't understand why so many people suddenly think we are gonna suck all year because of that game. Yes, we didn't play anywhere near as well as we can, but that doesn't mean we will suck all year long. This was a very good team we were playing and we will bounce back from that game. What's done is done. It's time to get behind our team and get ready for Stoney Brook.

[DTSpider]

My observations from last night:

- Elon has an outstanding facility. If it's true that it's the model for our new stadium than I'm happy.
- Elon fans were very gracious and showed up in pretty good numbers
- Elon's conditioning/hydration/stretching needs severe improvement. Way too many players having cramps compared to only one for UR. Proper hydration in the 2 days prior to the game and stretching before each half has more to do with cramps than conditioning, and Elon really suffered last night.
- UR's offense was way too predictable for a supposed top 5 team. The running game needs to improve for UR to be a NC contender.
- UR's secondary played much better than expected if Riddle & Hudgins really are 2 of the better FCS players
- UR's Logan & Sidbury are going to be tough to stop, UR had Riddle on the move almost every play without blitzing
- Eric Ward is the most underrated QB in the country. I struggle how after a performance like that he is considered the lowest rated QB in the CAA South. He was the difference last night.

[Bettina90]

He is by no means the lowest rated QB in the CAA South. At worst he is better than any option Delaware has at the moment. At best he is better than Landers or any of the others. I know Landers puts up the numbers but when I've seen him forced to rely on his arm in a late game situation he has been brutal. Namely vs. UR and Delaware last year.


I agree on the play calling just from listening to the radio webcast. Very, very predicatable but maybe that's good at this juncture, given the outcome.

[gophoenix]

Umm wow buddy. Calm down. It's just one game. That doesn't mean this is a lost season. I think we will bounce back well from this game. I don't understand why so many people suddenly think we are gonna suck all year because of that game. Yes, we didn't play anywhere near as well as we can, but that doesn't mean we will suck all year long. This was a very good team we were playing and we will bounce back from that game. What's done is done. It's time to get behind our team and get ready for Stoney Brook.

I'm calm. I just don't want to hear any Elon fans blaming this one on the refs. The blame is squarely on the team. Right now, we don't have the makings of a good FCS team. Can that be corrected? I think so, but the team has to want it. And what I saw last night was not a team that would want it. What I saw last night looked like the team that was whining when Lembo changed the senior night routine. Maybe it was good for them to lose, but, by the looks on their faces I just didn't see a team that was upset about losing. When guys are smiling and laughing on the sidelines when they are being dominated on both sides of the ball; it shows me that they think this is acceptable.

[ViennaSpider]

Elon has a beautiful campus, a great marching band, and the stadium was a pleasant surprise. My only complaint regarding the game, aside from the zebras, was that gawd-awful, ear-shattering public address system. Way too many decibels. Good luck the rest of the way---unless we happen to meet again in the playoffs.

[URMite]

They may have changed a rule, but I can't imagine that the new rule says it is permissable to drill a guy head-on as he is about to catch a punt, and that's what happened last night. The only thing I can figure is that none of the officials saw exactly how it happened (?) and assumed that it was incidental contact.

I wasn't there in person and can't be sure but...I thought he called for a fair catch but knew the ball was going a few yards past him. He wanted to slow down the kick team so that the ball would make the endzone. When he called the fair catch, he was leveled. There was a flag, but taken back because he wasn't going to catch the ball.

I don't know the rule in that situation (and can't be completely sure that was the situation).

[BeauFoster]

I wasn't there in person and can't be sure but...I thought he called for a fair catch but knew the ball was going a few yards past him. He wanted to slow down the kick team so that the ball would make the endzone. When he called the fair catch, he was leveled. There was a flag, but taken back because he wasn't going to catch the ball.

I don't know the rule in that situation (and can't be completely sure that was the situation).

That is how I understand the rule. If the player isn't going to catch the ball, regardless of making the fair catch signal or not, he is considered a blocker and can be treated as such.

[Eight Legger]

I could buy that rule, but Hatcher (our returner) was definitely planning to make the catch. The ball wasn't more than a few feet over his head and both of his arms were outstretched when he got leveled.

All I can figure is that the refs were looking at him from the punter's perspective, had no depth perception and assumed he was bluffing a catch. Had there been a ref looking across the yardline at Hatcher, he would have known that this was not the case.

[DTSpider]

He is by no means the lowest rated QB in the CAA South. At worst he is better than any option Delaware has at the moment. At best he is better than Landers or any of the others. I know Landers puts up the numbers but when I've seen him forced to rely on his arm in a late game situation he has been brutal. Namely vs. UR and Delaware last year.


I agree on the play calling just from listening to the radio webcast. Very, very predicatable but maybe that's good at this juncture, given the outcome.

I think Ward is a great QB, but if you look back at the preseason hype you have people saying that Landers, Young, Schaffer, Phillips are all better than Ward. I forgot about UD's Shoenhoft, but he's from Ohio St. and people were talking a lot about him. I'd take Ward over anyone else, but do hope that others will start to give him the recognition he's earning.

[SoCon48]

1. I was wrong about Riddle. I really thought he would put up some numbers on Richmond. Still think Elon will come around for most of their games.

2. TOP can be misleading. A team can easily romp on another team while losing the TOP battle. When two teams have similar type offenses, it can matter, though. A quick strike offense may not show much TOP or if they have a deep defense. Back in days of the Bone, many teams never had much in terms of TOP yet racked up a pot full of yards and points.

[CID1990]

1. I was wrong about Riddle. I really thought he would put up some numbers on Richmond. Still think Elon will come around for most of their games.

2. TOP can be misleading. A team can easily romp on another team while losing the TOP battle. When two teams have similar type offenses, it can matter, though. A quick strike offense may not show much TOP or if they have a deep defense. Back in days of the Bone, many teams never had much in terms of TOP yet racked up a pot full of yards and points.

That's not entirely accurate. Back in the days of the wishbone, we dominated teams in terms of TOP. It was a real deciding factor in our win over Arkansas and USC. The wishbone EATS clock, just like all other run-centric offenses.

[SoCon48]

That's not entirely accurate. Back in the days of the wishbone, we dominated teams in terms of TOP. It was a real deciding factor in our win over Arkansas and USC. The wishbone EATS clock, just like all other run-centric offenses.

Just depended on how effective some of your plays were. Hard to chew up clock when many plays go for 65 yards.
Of course scoring 10 points vs Arkansas was not a typical bone output.

[ChickenMan]

I think Ward is a great QB, but if you look back at the preseason hype you have people saying that Landers, Young, Schaffer, Phillips are all better than Ward. I forgot about UD's Shoenhoft, but he's from Ohio St. and people were talking a lot about him. I'd take Ward over anyone else, but do hope that others will start to give him the recognition he's earning.


I agree.. by the end of the season.. I expect that Ward and Nova's Young will be at the top of the CAA's QB class.

[eaglesrthe1]

Sounds like typical SoCon officiating.xmadx

[ur2k]

1. I was wrong about Riddle. I really thought he would put up some numbers on Richmond. Still think Elon will come around for most of their games.

2. TOP can be misleading. A team can easily romp on another team while losing the TOP battle. When two teams have similar type offenses, it can matter, though. A quick strike offense may not show much TOP or if they have a deep defense. Back in days of the Bone, many teams never had much in terms of TOP yet racked up a pot full of yards and points.

I believe UR had two 1-play drives for TD's that may have had an effect on TOP.

[SoCon48]

I believe UR had two 1-play drives for TD's that may have had an effect on TOP.

Exactly!

[CID1990]

Just depended on how effective some of your plays were. Hard to chew up clock when many plays go for 65 yards.
Of course scoring 10 points vs Arkansas was not a typical bone output.

I don't know what wishbone you're talking about, but the classic wishbone offenses I am familiar with (The Citadel, Navy, Oklahoma, Wofford, Army) were ALL clock eaters. At The Citadel, we averaged something like 6 yards a carry in 1992. However, this number is not skewed by big runs like many running stats are these days. Most teams today will generally run for 2-3 yards per carry, and then will bust one for 50 which lengthens the average. Couple that with the fact that most of those teams are balanced between the run and the pass and you have less running plays to average.

In the early 90s we typically were guaranteed 4 yards a play, and EVERY play was a run. I think we threw the ball twice against Arkansas and twice against USC. We were a lock for three yards a play on the triple option, and frequently we would go for it on 4th down because of the high percentage chance that we could get three yards. 10 minute touchdown drives were not unheard of.

The pure wishbone has never been a high scoring offense, and this is partly a function of the fact that it does eat clock. There are teams out there that were strong on the pass out of the bone like Oklahoma, but I am referring to those teams that relied solely on the run like the service academies and Wofford.

[URMite]

I don't know what wishbone you're talking about, but the classic wishbone offenses I am familiar with (The Citadel, Navy, Oklahoma, Wofford, Army) were ALL clock eaters. At The Citadel, we averaged something like 6 yards a carry in 1992. However, this number is not skewed by big runs like many running stats are these days. Most teams today will generally run for 2-3 yards per carry, and then will bust one for 50 which lengthens the average. Couple that with the fact that most of those teams are balanced between the run and the pass and you have less running plays to average.

In the early 90s we typically were guaranteed 4 yards a play, and EVERY play was a run. I think we threw the ball twice against Arkansas and twice against USC. We were a lock for three yards a play on the triple option, and frequently we would go for it on 4th down because of the high percentage chance that we could get three yards. 10 minute touchdown drives were not unheard of.

The pure wishbone has never been a high scoring offense, and this is partly a function of the fact that it does eat clock. There are teams out there that were strong on the pass out of the bone like Oklahoma, but I am referring to those teams that relied solely on the run like the service academies and Wofford.

The two I remember were Alabama & Oklahoma in the late 70s/early 90s.
They were nearly exclusively running games (4-7 passes/game). Had a high number of 7-25 yard runs, but also had a high number of negative yards because of mishandled options. I remember that people joked that the OU offense was fumble, fumble, fumble, touchdown.

[Tealblood]

I don't know what wishbone you're talking about, but the classic wishbone offenses I am familiar with (The Citadel, Navy, Oklahoma, Wofford, Army) were ALL clock eaters. At The Citadel, we averaged something like 6 yards a carry in 1992. However, this number is not skewed by big runs like many running stats are these days. Most teams today will generally run for 2-3 yards per carry, and then will bust one for 50 which lengthens the average. Couple that with the fact that most of those teams are balanced between the run and the pass and you have less running plays to average.

In the early 90s we typically were guaranteed 4 yards a play, and EVERY play was a run. I think we threw the ball twice against Arkansas and twice against USC. We were a lock for three yards a play on the triple option, and frequently we would go for it on 4th down because of the high percentage chance that we could get three yards. 10 minute touchdown drives were not unheard of.

The pure wishbone has never been a high scoring offense, and this is partly a function of the fact that it does eat clock. There are teams out there that were strong on the pass out of the bone like Oklahoma, but I am referring to those teams that relied solely on the run like the service academies and Wofford.



I think you were 9 of 10 passing that day--In fact I am pretty sure of it

[elon77]

I was there sweating every minute of the game, it sure was humid and hot. I can't figure out the cramping difference in the two teams and the footing difference in the two teams on a wet field. If people will remember Elon was having a much harder time with the turf than Richmond was, it was almost like there was a problem with their shoes, and it was on offense and defense. My hats off to the Spiders, I think they have a very good team and will do some nice things this year. I hope their fans enjoyed our campus and stadium and will play at our place again one day. Elon still has 11 games on their schedule and they might have just played the best team.

[SoCon48]

I don't know what wishbone you're talking about, but the classic wishbone offenses I am familiar with (The Citadel, Navy, Oklahoma, Wofford, Army) were ALL clock eaters. At The Citadel, we averaged something like 6 yards a carry in 1992. However, this number is not skewed by big runs like many running stats are these days. Most teams today will generally run for 2-3 yards per carry, and then will bust one for 50 which lengthens the average. Couple that with the fact that most of those teams are balanced between the run and the pass and you have less running plays to average.

In the early 90s we typically were guaranteed 4 yards a play, and EVERY play was a run. I think we threw the ball twice against Arkansas and twice against USC. We were a lock for three yards a play on the triple option, and frequently we would go for it on 4th down because of the high percentage chance that we could get three yards. 10 minute touchdown drives were not unheard of.

The pure wishbone has never been a high scoring offense, and this is partly a function of the fact that it does eat clock. There are teams out there that were strong on the pass out of the bone like Oklahoma, but I am referring to those teams that relied solely on the run like the service academies and Wofford.

I don't where you got that the bone wasn't high scoring. Oklahoma put up totals ranging from the 30's to the high 60's even vs top conference competition! That was the whole point of the bone. You had to put lots of points to make up for the turnovers. The slogan was live by the bone or die by the bone.

Passing...it wasn't called a "triple option" for nothing. At App in the Brakefield years it was indeed triple option. Keep, pitch, or pass.

Talking about the pure wishbone ASU ran in the mid 70's. Brakefield was one of the first to copy it from Oklahoma while at Woffie. Brought it with him to ASU.

ASU and the SoCon were still in D-I before the split. App was among the top 10 in the nation consistently in total offense.

It was definitely a high scoring offense for us and Oklahoma.. App put up scores like 41, 44, 32, 39, 52, 49, 35, 41, 38, 46, 48 on SoCon types (as well as USC, ECU, etc) in 74 and 75.
It was not a good come from behind offense but when it was clicking it was hell.

Sure it was meant primarily as a wide open running option offense, but teams who had good receivers passed almost 1/3 of the time. App had good receivers like Donnie Holt, Rick Beasley, and Devon Ford. At least a couple TD's a game from passing. It was great on the option pass when the defense was lured into just covering the pitchman and the QB.
App never used it as a grind it out ball control offense. The ASU record book is covered in 3rd and 3 plays that went 65-85 yards.

[CID1990]

I don't where you got that the bone wasn't high scoring. Oklahoma put up totals ranging from the 30's to the high 60's even vs top conference competition! That was the whole point of the bone. You had to put lots of points to make up for the turnovers. The slogan was live by the bone or die by the bone.

Passing...it wasn't called a "triple option" for nothing. At App in the Brakefield years it was indeed triple option. Keep, pitch, or pass.

Talking about the pure wishbone ASU ran in the mid 70's. Brakefield was one of the first to copy it from Oklahoma while at Woffie. Brought it with him to ASU.

ASU and the SoCon were still in D-I before the split. App was among the top 10 in the nation consistently in total offense.

It was definitely a high scoring offense for us and Oklahoma.. App put up scores like 41, 44, 32, 39, 52, 49, 35, 41, 38, 46, 48 on SoCon types (as well as USC, ECU, etc) in 74 and 75.
It was not a good come from behind offense but when it was clicking it was hell.

Sure it was meant primarily as a wide open running option offense, but teams who had good receivers passed almost 1/3 of the time. App had good receivers like Donnie Holt, Rick Beasley, and Devon Ford. At least a couple TD's a game from passing. It was great on the option pass when the defense was lured into just covering the pitchman and the QB.
App never used it as a grind it out ball control offense. The ASU record book is covered in 3rd and 3 plays that went 65-85 yards.

Compared to the other contemporary offenses, the wishbone was not a typically high scoring offense. Sure teams put up occasional high scores with it, but in the aggregate, other contemporary offenses were more productive in terms of points. If you call the wishbone a quick-strike offense in knowledgeable circles you are going to get laughed at.

Plus, the triple option was not run-pitch-pass. Mayeb ASU called it that, but the traditional triple option is FB Handoff-QB keep-HB Pitch.