UMass and App State in the same league?

[Old Cage]

I have never heard of the writer, so I don't know if he is known here. This presented without comment from me other than to say it was fun reading:


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/49847-atlantic-10-football-coming-soon-to-a-stadium-near-you

[Husky Alum]

Uh, it's DAVE Gavitt, not DAN Gavitt.

Who the heck would give a television deal to that conference???

I could go on longer, but I'm still shaking my head how ludicrous that is.

[thmst30]

That would be an absolute mess. Dream on.

[JetsLuvver]

Why do so many have these pipe dreams about the A-10, which just gave up its football conference, coming back, especially at FBS level?

[C-Mo]

on a side note, any chance of umass and app state playing a home-and-home?

[JMU DUUUKES]

Yea that was the craziest prediction I've ever read. Most of the stuff on our boards has more validity than that. JMU and UD leaving to go BACK to A10. Does he know we just left ? haha

[ERASU2113]

on a side note, any chance of umass and app state playing a home-and-home?

IMO: It would all come down to money. Travel mainly. Would they fly, charter a bus? Expenses is the big thing.

Makes it easier for schools close together to get a building rivalry...a-la ASU/JMU cause for the smaller FCS money is more of a factor than you would consider if thinking of OSU/USC and so on.


But yea I read that and laughed. (the article)

[Maroon&White]

on a side note, any chance of umass and app state playing a home-and-home?

UMass doesn't have much recent history of playing ranked OOC teams, so I don't see it happening.

[Jackman]

Sagarin says we're scheduled to play App in Chatty.

[Uncle Buck]

An entertaining read, but that's a hell of stretch. I don't see that conference happening any time soon. Like someone said, the travel involved would be a major concern for some of those schools.

[Bull Fan]

Entertaining, but foolish and frustrating. As time goes by, I'm starting to wonder why some people get stars in their eyes about moving over to I-A (notice I don't say "moving up" to...). Perpetually successful teams like UD, Montana, App State, and Georgia Southern (back in their heyday) all know they give up something in that they sacrifice the ability to compete for a national championship, for the right to play in a December 12th bowl game. In I-A, you play for the chance to be elected the national champions.

Being part of I-AA is about being comfortable in your own skin, and harboring little insecurity about not being part of the mainstream ESPN crowd. It's funny how all the football talking heads eschew the I-AA conferences / teams during their diatribes... knuckleheads like Trev Alberts, for example xsmiley_wix

If any of the teams in question in the article go I-A, they won't be part of the cartel that is championship-electable, wouldn't be able to compete $$$-wise since they're small fish in a big pond, and would immediately be compared to lesser conferences like the Sun Belt.

I was once of the opposite opinion, saying "why not move up"....

One more thing...


The Mountaineers of Appalachian State, known best for 2008’s pummeling of Michigan, field one of the best FBS programs around.

Uhh... pummeling??? Not to take away from the win, but that wasn't exactly a pummeling...

And good commentary following the article, by the way. I was once enthusiastic that UB made the switch to I-A, then started to sour as the plan didn't materialize. We're only now starting to see some mild success against conference foes. While we're part of the MAC, I hope we can acheive ultimate success in the Motor City Bowl or International Bowl. I don't know if any of our brethren will hack into the cartel like Hawaii and Boise have.

Hindsight being 20/20, I'd love for UB to have taken the same steps (stadium, facilities upgrades) but stayed with I-AA. The chance for ultimate success would have been more reasonably achievable.

I know Uncle Buck has an "I told you so" he's ready to uncork on me....

[Uncle Buck]

You were blinded by the glitter of "big time" college football only to end up like a mid-western girl who moves to Los Angeles in search of cinema fame. You're turning tricks in a crappy part of town just to pay the rent waiting for the big break that never comes.

Bottom line, to me anyways, playing for a meaningless Dec. 12th bowl game is not my idea of fun. The playoff run is the most exciting thing that college football can offer. Unless FBS changes their structure and adopts a system that gives all teams a shot, FCS and the rest of small ball will rule the roost IMO.

[Bull Fan]

Entertaining, but foolish and frustrating. As time goes by, I'm starting to wonder why some people get stars in their eyes about moving over to I-A (notice I don't say "moving up" to...). Perpetually successful teams like UD, Montana, App State, and Georgia Southern (back in their heyday) all know they give up something in that they sacrifice the ability to compete for a national championship, for the right to play in a December 12th bowl game. In I-A, you play for the chance to be elected the national champions.

Being part of I-AA is about being comfortable in your own skin, and harboring little insecurity about not being part of the mainstream ESPN crowd. It's funny how all the football talking heads eschew the I-AA conferences / teams during their diatribes... knuckleheads like Trev Alberts, for example xsmiley_wix

If any of the teams in question in the article go I-A, they won't be part of the cartel that is championship-electable, wouldn't be able to compete $$$-wise since they're small fish in a big pond, and would immediately be compared to lesser conferences like the Sun Belt.

I was once of the opposite opinion, saying "why not move up"....

One more thing...


The Mountaineers of Appalachian State, known best for 2008’s pummeling of Michigan, field one of the best FBS programs around.

Uhh... pummeling??? Not to take away from the win, but that wasn't exactly a pummeling...

And good commentary following the article, by the way. I was once enthusiastic that UB made the switch to I-A, then started to sour as the plan didn't materialize. We're only now starting to see some mild success against conference foes. While we're part of the MAC, I can only hope we can acheive ultimate success in getting the prized invite the Motor City or International Bowls. I don't know if any of our brethren will hack into the cartel like Hawaii and Boise have.

Hindsight being 20/20, I'd love for UB to have taken the same steps (stadium, facilities upgrades) but stayed with I-AA. The chance for ultimate success would have been more reasonably achievable.

I know Uncle Buck has an "I told you so" he's ready to uncork on me....

[Uncle Buck]

We heard you the first time you said it

[Bull Fan]

You were blinded by the glitter of "big time" college football only to end up like a mid-western girl who moves to Los Angeles in search of cinema fame. You're turning tricks in a crappy part of town just to pay the rent waiting for the big break that never comes.

You've been reading alot of Frank Pisano's works, haven't you. ;)

[Seawolf97]

While the MAC isnt the Big 10 os SEC it is still a 1-A conference. Looking at Buffalo's non conference schedule and that of a few others in the MAC -I see teams like Army, Missouri, Wisconsin, Purdue, Pitt either home or away. At the FCS level the top teams will at best play an away game against just 1 team at that level. Also if Buffalo would ever get into a Bowl and win it puts your program on the map.
So while the FCS Playoff system is based solely on performance and is not as politically influenced as the Bowl system being in the MAC isnt all that bad. Who wouldnt want a home game with Army or Cincinnati or both?

[TheValleyRaider]

So while the FCS Playoff system is based solely on performance and is not as politically influenced as the Bowl system being in the MAC isnt all that bad. Who wouldnt want a home game with Army or Cincinnati or both?

I suppose, if home games with Army and/or Cincinnati is the ultimate goal of your program xeyebrowx

If sacrificing those home games is the cost of having a legitimate shot at a National Championship, then I will pay it every time xpeacex

[Bull Fan]

When it all comes down to brass tacks, winning your conference in the MAC is rewarded with a bowl game in Detroit or Toronto, and facing up with some other half-assed I-A team.

Win your conference in I-AA, and you have an opportunity to play another handful of games, and ultimately for the big brass ring. Why would a UD, Montana, Appy State or even UMass ever want to make the move over to I-A???

[yosef1969]

Being part of I-AA is about being comfortable in your own skin, and harboring little insecurity about not being part of the mainstream ESPN crowd. It's funny how all the football talking heads eschew the I-AA conferences / teams during their diatribes... knuckleheads like Trev Alberts, for example xsmiley_wix

If any of the teams in question in the article go I-A, they won't be part of the cartel that is championship-electable, wouldn't be able to compete $$$-wise since they're small fish in a big pond, and would immediately be compared to lesser conferences like the Sun Belt.

For most it's not about egos or insecurities, it's about quality of regular season schedules and the renewing of old rivalries. Being non-BCS is just as much about being comfortable in your own skin as being FCS is.

As for the proposed conference in the article, never happen but IMO there will be another conference shakeup in the next 5 years or so.

[Jackman]

The FCS playoffs beat the FBS bowl season every time, except maybe the BCS bowls. I wouldn't trade UMass's recent playoff runs for every bowl game Boston College has been in for the last 20 years. Those games are next to worthless, except when they happen to be held in a fun vacation destination.

But the regular season, that I envy of the FBS schools. Let's be honest, most of us get pretty excited about our FBS matchups, even though they're usually irrelevant to our championship hopes. The crowds are bigger, the media pays more attention for a week... whereas it would be incredibly frustrating trying to track down national FCS news if AGS didn't exist. I envy FBS's greater relevance and how many more people they can get excited about the games. There's nothing wrong with FCS ball. Sport is sport. There's also nothing wrong with non-scholarship football, but how many of us who are fans of top FCS programs would want to make that switch?

I don't see it as a matter of being comfortable in our own skin. Anybody can play FBS football. A Division III school in Alaska can play FBS ball. They just have to pay for it. It's a choice we make, none of us are born into one status or another. I know a guy who owns a Dodge Viper but lives in a trailer park. That's how he chose to spend his money. So how much do you want your university to spend on football? We can all go FBS, if we want.

[DFW HOYA]

Anotehr way to look at this discussion is to ask: if lower level I-A is so downtrodden and I-AA is great, why have no teams moved down in the last 20+ years to take advantage of a playoff championship?

Answer? The reputation and exposure of I-A, by and large, beats that of I-AA, in no small part because the NCAA set it up that way.

[IndianaAppMan]

Another way to look at this discussion is to ask: if lower level I-A is so downtrodden and I-AA is great, why have no teams moved down in the last 20+ years to take advantage of a playoff championship?

Answer? The reputation and exposure of I-A, by and large, beats that of I-AA, in no small part because the NCAA set it up that way.

I think this is definitely accurate. In addition, as far as I'm aware, the only 1A programw to go to 1AA, when it was not mandated to do so by the NCAA, were McNeese State and a few Ivy League teams back in the early 80's. These programs elected to go to 1AA with the majority of their respective conference mates.

As for the reputation portion, there are few exceptions in terms of popularity. Several Ivy League games and some of the HBCU classics still garner huge audiences, both on TV and in person. As for the reputation of quality, I doubt the any FCS conference exceeds that of an FBS conference, even though the statistics like Sagarin ratings show the true quality of some FCS conferences may exceed the Sun Belt and/or MAC.

[IndianaAppMan]

I have never heard of the writer, so I don't know if he is known here. This presented without comment from me other than to say it was fun reading:


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/49847-atlantic-10-football-coming-soon-to-a-stadium-near-you

It seems like this guy just made stuff up as he went along without actually doing any research.

It is not, to paraphrase, just a matter of time before JMU, Georgia State, App State, or UMass go 1A. Two of them have done feasibility studies, and they both concluded to stay 1AA. Is that definitive sign that they're going 1A? I don't think so.

[EmeryZach]

Doesn't this guy realize that minimum FBS capacity is 30,000 not 20,000 seats. Idiot.

[appfan2008]

Doesn't this guy realize that minimum FBS capacity is 30,000 not 20,000 seats. Idiot.

obviously not on top of things...

[IndianaAppMan]

Doesn't this guy realize that minimum FBS capacity is 30,000 not 20,000 seats. Idiot.

There is no longer a minimum capacity for FBS stadiums. Ball State only has 25,000 seats. The only rule as far as that goes is that teams must average 15,000 tickets sold OR 15,000 in actual attendance.

[Bull Fan]

For most it's not about egos or insecurities, it's about quality of regular season schedules and the renewing of old rivalries. Being non-BCS is just as much about being comfortable in your own skin as being FCS is.

As for the proposed conference in the article, never happen but IMO there will be another conference shakeup in the next 5 years or so.

I get what you're saying, but the rub is that by playing in a I-A conference that's not part of the "BCS" cartel, you're in limbo. Playing at the perceived "highest level" of college football, without having a shot at playing for a national championship. You're ultimate success is a second or third tier bowl game.

[EmeryZach]

There is no longer a minimum capacity for FBS stadiums. Ball State only has 25,000 seats. The only rule as far as that goes is that teams must average 15,000 tickets sold OR 15,000 in actual attendance.

xsmiley_wix xoopsx Oops, my bad. He's still an idiot though. xlolx

[Bull Fan]

As for the reputation portion, there are few exceptions in terms of popularity. Several Ivy League games and some of the HBCU classics still garner huge audiences, both on TV and in person. As for the reputation of quality, I doubt the any FCS conference exceeds that of an FBS conference, even though the statistics like Sagarin ratings show the true quality of some FCS conferences may exceed the Sun Belt and/or MAC.

Reputation and perception are a funny thing. I truly wonder what the perception, from say a Big 10 fan would be on the quality of either the CAA or SoCon, relative to the Sub Belt.

In hypothetics, I'd bet an App State caliber team would man-handle the Sun Belt champ in any given year. Let's remember solid I-AA teams collect some decent transfers every year, and these transfers tend to put them over the top, i.e., Joe Flacco, Ingle Martin, Brandon Jacobs and any I-A transfer that landed on UD's campus over the last half-decade.

The Sun Belt rosters are littered with southern kids who want to play I-A ball so badly but were lightly recruited, or just didn't receive offers from the BCS cartel member schools.

[yosef1969]

I get what you're saying, but the rub is that by playing in a I-A conference that's not part of the "BCS" cartel, you're in limbo. Playing at the perceived "highest level" of college football, without having a shot at playing for a national championship. You're ultimate success is a second or third tier bowl game.

First let me say I am comfortable with ASU being in FCS. If they stay in FCS for ever that would be fine. However there are many fans, not all, myself included, that to some extent are fine with a lower tiered bowl as long as it is coupled with the addition of games against Marshall, ECU, Wake, MTSU, Troy etc. The kicker is getting those games on the schedule and eventually getting them in Boone.

I love the National Championship Playoff but then again it's all about setting your expectations. For many fans the FCS NC is comparable to a lower tier bowl game. The competition level is about the same and neither are THE NC title so if you're gonna be in limbo why not be in the highest level of limbo possible?

I have mixed feelings but ultimately I lean in favor of the move to FBS simply for the prospect of an enhanced schedule.

[IndianaAppMan]

First let me say I am comfortable with ASU being in FCS. If they stay in FCS for ever that would be fine. However there are many fans, not all, myself included, that to some extent are fine with a lower tiered bowl as long as it is coupled with the addition of games against Marshall, ECU, Wake, MTSU, Troy etc. The kicker is getting those games on the schedule and eventually getting them in Boone.

I love the National Championship Playoff but then again it's all about setting your expectations. For many fans the FCS NC is comparable to a lower tier bowl game. The competition level is about the same and neither are THE NC title so if you're gonna be in limbo why not be in the highest level of limbo possible?

I have mixed feelings but ultimately I lean in favor of the move to FBS simply for the prospect of an enhanced schedule.

As for your argument for moving in order to have better teams on the schedule, I think it would be just slightly better than a lateral move with the teams you named.

Let's say that we moved and got the 85 scholarships. In that case, expectations rise, and thus a competition against Marshall wouldn't be much more exciting than our series against Georgia Southern. And there's no question that GSU generates interest for ASU fans. Even before I got to App, I heard about how Duck Pond received a generous donation of KBS goalposts from crazed fans when we handed GSU their only loss in '99.

Likewise, I'm not sure how much better of a sell it would be for ASU fans to play Troy or MTSU than it would be to play long-time rivals like Furman or Western. Those games are always exciting, whether the games are close or blowouts, and we still harass Furman with "Go For Two!" Again, for scheduling, I'd like LSU & Meeeeeesh-uh-gane over Wake.

Using your pro-FBS argument citing scheduling as the reason, my hope would be to have an ECU-type schedule. Obviously, we'd be in C-USA, Sun Belt, or some other also-ran conference, never the ACC or Big East. But it would be awesome to play several of these teams in non-conference games, especially since none of them are much more than five hours away: West Virginia, Va. Tech, Virginia, UNC, NC State, Tennessee, Kentucky, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Clemson, and So. Carolina. Getting some of those teams to come to Boone would be unbelievable!

I also believe that rivalries are critical to maintaining fan interest. It would be paramount to restore a long-term series vs. Wake Forest. I'd also like ECU to be an annual game. Flatlands vs. Mountains. East vs. West. Former Teachers College vs. Former Teachers College.

Without scheduling those kinds of games, though, the schedule would be no more appealing than what we already have. As an example, I cite Ball State's dull schedule (and attendance that's not even as good as App's). Their biggest-name home opponent is Navy. On the road they play Indiana. (Yippee!) Otherwise, it's just MAC teams that create no more buzz for BSU fans than does the SoCon schedule for ASU fans.

[appfan2008]

As for your argument for moving in order to have better teams on the schedule, I think it would be just slightly better than a lateral move with the teams you named.

Let's say that we moved and got the 85 scholarships. In that case, expectations rise, and thus a competition against Marshall wouldn't be much more exciting than our series against Georgia Southern. And there's no question that GSU generates interest for ASU fans. Even before I got to App, I heard about how Duck Pond received a generous donation of KBS goalposts from crazed fans when we handed GSU their only loss in '99.

Likewise, I'm not sure how much better of a sell it would be for ASU fans to play Troy or MTSU than it would be to play long-time rivals like Furman or Western. Those games are always exciting, whether the games are close or blowouts, and we still harass Furman with "Go For Two!" Again, for scheduling, I'd like LSU & Meeeeeesh-uh-gane over Wake.

Using your pro-FBS argument citing scheduling as the reason, my hope would be to have an ECU-type schedule. Obviously, we'd be in C-USA, Sun Belt, or some other also-ran conference, never the ACC or Big East. But it would be awesome to play several of these teams in non-conference games, especially since none of them are much more than five hours away: West Virginia, Va. Tech, Virginia, UNC, NC State, Tennessee, Kentucky, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Clemson, and So. Carolina. Getting some of those teams to come to Boone would be unbelievable!

I also believe that rivalries are critical to maintaining fan interest. It would be paramount to restore a long-term series vs. Wake Forest. I'd also like ECU to be an annual game. Flatlands vs. Mountains. East vs. West. Former Teachers College vs. Former Teachers College.

Without scheduling those kinds of games, though, the schedule would be no more appealing than what we already have. As an example, I cite Ball State's dull schedule (and attendance that's not even as good as App's). Their biggest-name home opponent is Navy. On the road they play Indiana. (Yippee!) Otherwise, it's just MAC teams that create no more buzz for BSU fans than does the SoCon schedule for ASU fans.

xnodx xnodx i agree

[appmaj]

Is Charlotte really that close to starting football?

[IndianaAppMan]

Is Charlotte really that close to starting football?

this blogger just typed stuff off the top of his head. check info from somewhere more credible like the uncc website or even a newspaper. i'll believe it when they actually get support from the prez & faculty.

[EmeryZach]

And a stadium. They need that too. Very important.

[JetsLuvver]

Why couldn't a Charlotte football team simply play at the Panthers stadium (whatever its corporate name is this week)? Why does that never seem to come up as an option?

[Jackman]

September 18th is the date when the Charlotte president/administration will make its official recommendation regarding football. If they do start a team, the earliest timeline they're looking at is 2012, and they have to play FCS football for a minimum of 4 years.

Where would they play? CAA is too crowded unless it splits. Would the SoCon take a new FB-only member? If not, it's Big South or Independent.

[yosef1969]

Talking historic rivalries not just last 5-10 years. GSU is a nice rivalry but it only became that as it replaced the one with Marshall. Also talking Home and Home schedules versus outnumbered scholly games away at UM and LSU. Ultimately I'd prefer higher profile games too but wake, marshall, ecu are superior to Jacksonville and Presby IMO. Still rather have a long term home and home with Wake or ECU than ever play LSU or UM again.

Granted, some would miss the rivalry with Furman but WCU??? Not so much.

Troy and MTSU have been and could be quality rivalry games as they are similar regional schools.

Said it many times it's about your interpretation and expectations of success. You say it's lateral, I couldn't disagree more.