Next Step for Stony Brook

[Redwyn]

Hey all,

I've been a fan of Stony Brook Football since it became DI-AA, but was always pessimistic about the viability of the program while it was in the NEC (mostly due to the restrictive scholarship scheme). Now that its moving to the Big South, I'm a bit skeptical as to whether it intends to stay there for long, as none of the opponents are very well known in New York. It seems like they just like the larger scholarship scope and the playoff bid. Does anyone have a feeling they know what the long term plan is for Stony Brook Football?

Can't wait for the season this year.

[IndianaAppMan]

Hey all,

I've been a fan of Stony Brook Football since it became DI-AA, but was always pessimistic about the viability of the program while it was in the NEC (mostly due to the restrictive scholarship scheme). Now that its moving to the Big South, I'm a bit skeptical as to whether it intends to stay there for long, as none of the opponents are very well known in New York. It seems like they just like the larger scholarship scope and the playoff bid. Does anyone have a feeling they know what the long term plan is for Stony Brook Football?

Can't wait for the season this year.

From what I understand, their football-only affiliation with the Big South is a four- or five-year contract. After that, who knows where they'll be?

Five years from now, conferences may look dramatically different. The Big East's television contract expires in 2013, if I'm not mistaken. Then it may choose to:
A) do nothing
B) split with the Catholic, non-Big East football schools, maybe adding some new programs like UCF, Memphis, ECU, or someone else. (You're freaking kidding yourself if you think Notre Dame would ever join them or any other conference when they rake in millions from NBC that they have to share with no one.)

If the Big East adds any new programs, it will be sure to have another domino effect on conferences throughout the FBS and perhaps the FCS, just like what happened with the ACC in 2003.

Until then, I doubt many D1 programs will be making any monumental changes. I think SB & the Big South should wait and see what happens before reacting too quickly. In the meantime, SB might as well try to raise awareness of Big South opponents on campus. Maybe they can promote an us-against-the-world attitude for fans, being the only northern school in an otherwise all-South conference.

[aust42]

Their waiting for the football only members of the CAA to split once Georgia State and Old Dominion join the Conference.

New "Yankee Conference"

Maine
UMASS
New Hampshire
Rhode Island
Villanova
Richmond
Stony Brook
Albany
Monmouth

[DFW HOYA]

Their waiting for the football only members of the CAA to split once Georgia State and Old Dominion join the Conference.

I'd put Fordham (and its $4M budget) ahead of Monmouth.

[IndianaAppMan]

Their waiting for the football only members of the CAA to split once Georgia State and Old Dominion join the Conference.

New "Yankee Conference"

Maine
UMASS
New Hampshire
Rhode Island
Villanova
Richmond
Stony Brook
Albany
Monmouth

Your idea seems a stronger possiblity than it may have been a few years ago. From what I've heard from CAA North fans, they like playing & being affiliated with CAA South teams. They also seem like they'd not be too excited about current NEC teams or Stony Brook affiliating with them; however, with the reality of travel budgest facing $4.00/gallon gas, which will probably go up even more over the next few years, conferences are likely to try to be more geographically compact, especially in the FCS, DII, and DII.

On that note, I imagine Ga. State will seek Big South or SoCon membership rather than play far-off Mid-Atlantic teams, much less New England teams.

[IndianaAppMan]

Hey all,

I've been a fan of Stony Brook Football since it became DI-AA, but was always pessimistic about the viability of the program while it was in the NEC (mostly due to the restrictive scholarship scheme). Now that its moving to the Big South, I'm a bit skeptical as to whether it intends to stay there for long, as none of the opponents are very well known in New York. It seems like they just like the larger scholarship scope and the playoff bid. Does anyone have a feeling they know what the long term plan is for Stony Brook Football?

Can't wait for the season this year.

Saw that this was your first post. Welcome to AGS! xthumbsupx

[UAalum72]

On that note, I imagine Ga. State will seek Big South or SoCon membership rather than play far-off Mid-Atlantic teams, much less New England teams.
To do that you also have to imagine that either G-State will either be allowed to take football to a conference besides the CAA, or else would really want to leave CAA basketball for the Big South or SoCon.

[DFW HOYA]

Realistically, I think there are question marks not only for Stony Brook, but any team not playing football in their "home" conference. Whether it's Villanova, Georgetown, Fordham, URI, UMass, etc., there are a lot of unanswered questions.

[Redwyn]

Thanks for the warm welcome IndianaAppMan!

I'm seeing a lot of really good points, but I guess the bigger question is what would make Stony Brook fans and, more importantly, Stony Brook recruits more excited? I liked the SBU/Albany rivalry, and it's a shame to leave that. As a varsity rower for SBU I noticed that the team got more excited to play a rollover opponent they've heard of (ex. Hofstra, Penn State or Albany, neither of whom is consistently strong), than a southern team that was far more challenging (for example George Mason, Maryland, or NC State). I wonder how this will change SBU's focus once the all enticing possibility of going north to a competitive conference surfaces.

I'd love to see us enter the Big East one day, and school administrators have unofficially admitted to me that this is the school's ultimate intent. It's getting closer, but it's quite hard for a Long Island football program to net the NCAA D1-A minimum of 18K fans average per home game, especially given that our stadium can't fit that many right now. Regardless, I'll be quite happy watching a high potential team go full scholarship for the first time next week. Can't wait!

Where do you all reckon the team will finish? I'm seeing a lot of 3-4th place predictions, but not a lot to back em up. Any ideas?

[FiniteMan]

Hey all,

I've been a fan of Stony Brook Football since it became DI-AA, but was always pessimistic about the viability of the program while it was in the NEC (mostly due to the restrictive scholarship scheme). Now that its moving to the Big South, I'm a bit skeptical as to whether it intends to stay there for long, as none of the opponents are very well known in New York. It seems like they just like the larger scholarship scope and the playoff bid. Does anyone have a feeling they know what the long term plan is for Stony Brook Football?

How long term are we talking? Eventually, I suspect they have the idea of at least catching up with SUNY Buffalo (FBS) and frankly their DMA is sweet for an FBS school, of much less relevance to an FCS school.

But Stonybrook has an FCS stadium and it was hard for them to get that built. It is possible that an emerging FBS conference might drag them up to the FBS level to have a presence in the NYC DMA for basketball. That is worth big bucks. From there, SB would probably have a lot more success raising the money to expand their stadium to 30K and become a lower level FBS school --- the only one on long island.

Bright future, but they have to hope that when an eastern conference emerges that their commisioner and the members bite on adding Stony Brook for the NYC DMA.

I think their current plan is making lemonade out of lemons. They are considered not ready, not established, not prestigious for the CAA today. The big South is a reasonable football conference and Stony Brook gives them a shot to have an auto bid. When that occurs SB has a better than 1/7 chance of making the playoffs each year. Not bad at all.

[Dane96]

Thanks for the warm welcome IndianaAppMan!

I'm seeing a lot of really good points, but I guess the bigger question is what would make Stony Brook fans and, more importantly, Stony Brook recruits more excited? I liked the SBU/Albany rivalry, and it's a shame to leave that. As a varsity rower for SBU I noticed that the team got more excited to play a rollover opponent they've heard of (ex. Hofstra, Penn State or Albany, neither of whom is consistently strong), than a southern team that was far more challenging (for example George Mason, Maryland, or NC State). I wonder how this will change SBU's focus once the all enticing possibility of going north to a competitive conference surfaces.

xeyebrowx xnonox

Whatever it is you are smoking...I would like to know. Rollover opponent versus far more challenging southen squads?

Penn State...if you played them...would absolutely house you. I dont believe you have beaten Hofstra yet.

Against rollover and not so strong Albany (who by the way, has been nationally ranked at every level played...and has played in bowl games, including versus Central Florida), Stony Brook has managed to win 4 of 14 games, including a hotly disputed call a few years back allowing the Brook to edge the Danes 7-3.

Albany has been 89-52 since moving up to DII and then FCS (I-AA as you like to call it)...playing a far superior schedule than Stony Brook (and with less rides...even going back to DII and grant-in-aid days). We have had only 3 Sub-500 years since 1996 and posted 9 seven-win seasons.

Stony Brook, in the same time-frame is 57-65, posting 6 sub-500 seasons and having only 1 seven-win season.

Now dont get me wrong...I like Stony Brook's move to full-rides...but...KNOW DETAILS BEFORE YOU POST. And I can bet the players didnt use the term roll-over opponents regarding Penn State, Hofstra...and especially Albany because your HEAD COACH is a former stud player and coach for Albany. Hell, if Ford had retired he would have been our coach. He would never allow his players to use that term about any team...let alone Albany.

Consider this my public service announcement on Stony Brook football for you.

[Dane96]

It is possible that an emerging FBS conference might drag them up to the FBS level to have a presence in the NYC DMA for basketball. That is worth big bucks. From there, SB would probably have a lot more success raising the money to expand their stadium to 30K and become a lower level FBS school --- the only one on long island.

Bright future, but they have to hope that when an eastern conference emerges that their commisioner and the members bite on adding Stony Brook for the NYC DMA.

I feel as if we continue to talk in circles here regarding Stony Brook's market. Same is to be said for our hoops board. Stony Brook has ZERO importance media wise with the NYC market. It is 2 hours (on a good day) from NYC.

NYC media market for college will revolve around St. John's, Seton Hall, Syracuse, UCONN, RUTGERS, Manhattan, Fordham, and Hofstra for hoops...(the latter schools at the bottom end of that media pile).

In football...as long as they keep playing well, UConn and Rutgers will get most of the play...but.....Penn State also gets coverage.

Stony Brook...doesnt even equate to Nassau County...let alone the metro NY, NJ, and Connecticut area. The funds will never be there for a major athletic boost unless it is privately raised-- it is against the law in NYS for scholarships and direct funding to go from State coffers to athletics.

Stony Brook has Newsday...and that's about that.

[dgreco]

No way Richmond is in there, to far south, the Virginia teams will all be part of something down there.

I agree I Think you would see a CCSU in there before Richmond.

[FiniteMan]

I'd love to see us enter the Big East one day, and school administrators have unofficially admitted to me that this is the school's ultimate intent....

It's an interesting plan. I find each school's plan fascinating. It seems like each one has their own belief that conference movement will happen in a certain way that will benefit them. Frankly, if they can get their Basketball attendance up to 8K or so and certain things happen, it could happen.

The BE is scoming off their most financially successful season in their history. One would think that would mean stability, but possibly not. As I understand it, the BE BB schools are taking bigger expenses than the football schools. That could lead to more friction. The BE today has no use for Stony Brook, but if the BE basketball schools should decide that the football schools are COSTING them money --- 16 schools getting fewer bids per member than a smaller conference, you could see the BB schools breakaway and pull in say Xavier and Dayton for a stable 10.

In that scenario, the BE football would only have Rutgers in the NYC market. It is possible they might pull in some BB schools for their markets. Perhaps go after the Boston, DC, Philly markets. Stony Brook BB is certainly nothing special, but the list of NYC DMA teams is quite short and undistinguished after St. john's. It is possible that the BEF conference might pull a few schools in Big markets to help their BB revenue. Stony Brook may be the only non-FBS school with undeniable revenue growth potential and a good academic reputation. If they got the BB attendance up, they COULD get a non-football invite. Not saying likely. Only possible.

I think it is far more likely we see an FBS conferenc emerge in the SE and in the NE in the next 20 years and that Stony Brook is in the NE one on the strenght of the NYC DMA --- even if they start as a non- football member.

I would say the keys are:

1) upgrading the football stadium to 25K
or
2) getting up to 6-8K ave attendance in BB or 5-6K with a good, high profile tourney run.

Either one would put Stony Brook on FBS/mid-major radars.

[FiniteMan]

I'd love to see us enter the Big East one day, and school administrators have unofficially admitted to me that this is the school's ultimate intent....

It's an interesting plan. I find each school's plan fascinating. It seems like each one has their own belief that conference movement will happen in a certain way that will benefit them. Frankly, if they can get their Basketball attendance up to 8K or so and certain things happen, it could happen.

The BE is scoming off their most financially successful season in their history. One would think that would mean stability, but possibly not. As I understand it, the BE BB schools are taking bigger expenses than the football schools. That could lead to more friction. The BE today has no use for Stony Brook, but if the BE basketball schools should decide that the football schools are COSTING them money --- 16 schools getting fewer bids per member than a smaller conference, you could see the BB schools breakaway and pull in say Xavier and Dayton for a stable 10.

In that scenario, the BE football would only have Rutgers in the NYC market. It is possible they might pull in some BB schools for their markets. Perhaps go after the Boston, DC, Philly markets. Stony Brook BB is certainly nothing special, but the list of NYC DMA teams is quite short and undistinguished after St. john's. It is possible that the BEF conference might pull a few schools in Big markets to help their BB revenue. Stony Brook may be the only non-FBS school with undeniable revenue growth potential and a good academic reputation. If they got the BB attendance up, they COULD get a non-football invite. Not saying likely. Only possible.

And it would be non-football. If Temple isn't up to BEF snuff, you get an idea how far Stony Brook has to go for BEF.

I think it is far more likely we see an FBS conference emerge in the SE and in the NE in the next 20 years and that Stony Brook is in the NE one on the strength of the NYC DMA --- even if they start as a non- football member.

I would say the keys are:

1) upgrading the football stadium to 25K
or
2) getting up to 6-8K ave attendance in BB or 5-6K with a good, high profile tourney run.

Either one would put Stony Brook on FBS/mid-major radars.

[catdaddy2402]

xeyebrowx xnonox

Whatever it is you are smoking...I would like to know. Rollover opponent versus far more challenging southen squads?

Penn State...if you played them...would absolutely house you. I dont believe you have beaten Hofstra yet.

Against rollover and not so strong Albany (who by the way, has been nationally ranked at every level played...and has played in bowl games, including versus Central Florida), Stony Brook has managed to win 4 of 14 games, including a hotly disputed call a few years back allowing the Brook to edge the Danes 7-3.

Albany has been 89-52 since moving up to DII and then FCS (I-AA as you like to call it)...playing a far superior schedule than Stony Brook (and with less rides...even going back to DII and grant-in-aid days). We have had only 3 Sub-500 years since 1996 and posted 9 seven-win seasons.

Stony Brook, in the same time-frame is 57-65, posting 6 sub-500 seasons and having only 1 seven-win season.

Now dont get me wrong...I like Stony Brook's move to full-rides...but...KNOW DETAILS BEFORE YOU POST. And I can bet the players didnt use the term roll-over opponents regarding Penn State, Hofstra...and especially Albany because your HEAD COACH is a former stud player and coach for Albany. Hell, if Ford had retired he would have been our coach. He would never allow his players to use that term about any team...let alone Albany.

Consider this my public service announcement on Stony Brook football for you.

I don't think he was talking football, but using an example from rowing, since he is obviously a rower.


As a varsity rower for SBU I noticed that the team got more excited to play a rollover opponent they've heard of (ex. Hofstra, Penn State or Albany, neither of whom is consistently strong), than a southern team that was far more challenging (for example George Mason, Maryland, or NC State).

[FiniteMan]

I really don't disagree with much of what you say in here, but what you are (IMO) glazing over is that EVERY FCS school can tick off 5-10 reasons why they could/should never upgrade to FBS. USF could do that and they have been a hit as an FBS school. All real, valid issues, but none of them are worse than what upgrading schools overcome all the time.


I feel as if we continue to talk in circles here regarding Stony Brook's market. Same is to be said for our hoops board. Stony Brook has ZERO importance media wise with the NYC market. It is 2 hours (on a good day) from NYC.

NYC media market for college will revolve around St. John's, Seton Hall, Syracuse, UCONN, RUTGERS, Manhattan, Fordham, and Hofstra for hoops...(the latter schools at the bottom end of that media pile).

The NYC DMA has 7.391M TV households. To put that in perspective, Chicagoland, the #3 DMA in the US has 3.469M. 10% of the NYC market would qualify as the 40th best DMA in the US. The scale is just enormous.

A toehold in NY is worth considering by almost any conference in the eastern US. Frankly I could see the MAC(!!) offering Stony Brook a slot if SB was ready to play even rudimentary FBS football --- to get NYC exposure.

One thing that is lost in your analysis is the enrollment of the university. It is not small and I would wager vast majority of the alumni are in NYC or Long Island. That is very signifigant.


In football...as long as they keep playing well, UConn and Rutgers will get most of the play...but.....Penn State also gets coverage.

I don't disagree with this at all. In spite of their enrollment, SB is years away from being a legit target for ANY FBS conference.


Stony Brook...doesnt even equate to Nassau County...let alone the metro NY, NJ, and Connecticut area. The funds will never be there for a major athletic boost unless it is privately raised-- it is against the law in NYS for scholarships and direct funding to go from State coffers to athletics.

SB had a hell of a time getting the revenue to build an FCS caliber stadium. I am aware of that, but this MAY be overstated a bit. Not saying it is, --- it may be. It is not uncommon for a single donor or a small group of donors to give a large sum to a University. SB may find that they have a lot more private support if they should decide to upgrade for FBS than they did to upgrade to their current stadium. It is also possible that some fans might fall in love with SB football now and be the donors that weren't there in the past.

I am an alum of UTD. We are a 15K university that beats our chest about thumping 2K universities in DIII. I am embarrassed by that. A lot of my fellow grads who I keep in touch with find nothing inspiring about DIII. Now maybe if UTD were in FCS or FBS or even DII (LSC) our sports love would have us writing ridiculous checks to UTD athletics. Some give for academic reasons. Everyone's threshold or hot button to contribute is different and SB might find that further upgrades become easier.

[FiniteMan]

I really don't disagree with much of what you say in here, but what you are (IMO) glazing over is that EVERY FCS school can tick off 5-10 reasons why they could/should never upgrade to FBS. USF could do that and they have been a hit as an FBS school. All real, valid issues, but none of them are worse than what upgrading schools overcome all the time.


I feel as if we continue to talk in circles here regarding Stony Brook's market. Same is to be said for our hoops board. Stony Brook has ZERO importance media wise with the NYC market. It is 2 hours (on a good day) from NYC.

NYC media market for college will revolve around St. John's, Seton Hall, Syracuse, UCONN, RUTGERS, Manhattan, Fordham, and Hofstra for hoops...(the latter schools at the bottom end of that media pile).

The NYC DMA has 7.391M TV households. To put that in perspective, Chicagoland, the #3 DMA in the US has 3.469M. 10% of the NYC market would qualify as the 40th best DMA in the US. The scale is just enormous.

A toehold in NY is worth considering by almost any conference in the eastern US. Frankly I could see the MAC(!!) offering Stony Brook a slot if SB was ready to play even rudimentary FBS football --- to get NYC exposure.

Two things that are lost in your analysis are the enrollment of the university and it's academic standing. It is not small and I would wager vast majority of the alumni are in NYC or Long Island. That is very signifigant. The fact that it is considered a state flagship of NY and is a highly rated public also plays in it's favor.


In football...as long as they keep playing well, UConn and Rutgers will get most of the play...but.....Penn State also gets coverage.

I don't disagree with this at all. In spite of their enrollment, SB football is years away from being a legit target for ANY FBS conference. Basketball is not much better.


Stony Brook...doesnt even equate to Nassau County...let alone the metro NY, NJ, and Connecticut area. The funds will never be there for a major athletic boost unless it is privately raised-- it is against the law in NYS for scholarships and direct funding to go from State coffers to athletics.

SB had a hell of a time getting the revenue to build an FCS caliber stadium. I am aware of that, but this MAY be overstated a bit. Not saying it is, --- it may be. It is not uncommon for a single donor or a small group of donors to give a large sum to a University. SB may find that they have a lot more private support if they should decide to upgrade for FBS than they did to upgrade to their current stadium. It is also possible that some fans might fall in love with SB football now and be the donors that weren't there in the past.

I am an alum of UTD. We are a 15K university that beats our chest about thumping 2K universities in DIII. I am embarrassed by that. A lot of my fellow grads who I keep in touch with find nothing inspiring about DIII. Now maybe if UTD were in FCS or FBS or even DII (LSC) our sports love would have us writing ridiculous checks to UTD athletics. Some give for academic reasons. Everyone's threshold or hot button to contribute is different and SB might find that further upgrades become easier.

[TheValleyRaider]

Stony Brook's first step would have to be keeping up with their opponent on 8/30 :D :p xthumbsupx

[DFW HOYA]

The BE is scoming off their most financially successful season in their history. One would think that would mean stability, but possibly not. As I understand it, the BE BB schools are taking bigger expenses than the football schools. That could lead to more friction. The BE today has no use for Stony Brook, but if the BE basketball schools should decide that the football schools are COSTING them money --- 16 schools getting fewer bids per member than a smaller conference, you could see the BB schools breakaway and pull in say Xavier and Dayton for a stable 10.

I'm not aware of any fewer expenses for I-A Big East schools, but they have a revenue source that folks at Providence and Seton Hall do not.

A "Catholic League" idea gets floated on message boards from time to time, but ND, Georgetown and Villanova are not interested.

[CRAZY_DANE]

If your talking about the NYC market, Albany is just as much in the race as Stony Brook. People that talk about Stony Brook being part of the NYC market just don't understand NY State. Stony Brook is in Suffolk County, not Nassau. There is no great love for Stony Brook in NYC. People in NYC watch Syracuse games and Syracuse is 100 miles further away from NYC than Albany is. My point is that Stony Brook isn't that close and if they're willing to watch Syracuse then they're willing to watch Albany.

Albany is one of only 4 SUNY Centers in the NY State. NYC television goes as far north as Dutchess and Ulster Counties, which are a short hop to Albany. If they'll watch Syracuse and Stony Brook, then they'll watch Albany.

UAlbany's problem is that we do not have a champion in state government (aka Ken LaValle). Also, being named after a much hated state government seems to get us misplaced animosity. UAlbany is based in the state capitol but don't blame the university because your angry at the Governor or Assembly Speaker.

In summary, winning FBS football would be covered in NYC no matter if it's Albany, Stony Brook or Syracuse. Everyone loves a winner. Don't make some BS call about Stony Brook's geography.

[Husky Alum]

I'd love to see Stony Brook competitive in the America Least before they even think about the Big East.

I've been hearing smack from SBU since the second they joined that conference - it's simply silly that they'd join the Big East. I'm sure if you asked folks at any school they say they'd love to join the Big East.

Your AD is a loudmouth blowhard who should have stayed where he was, as he's done more bad than good for SBU. He's a laughingstock in the America East - which is saying somehting with some of the AD's they have in that league!

Heck, the Big East isn't represented in the Boston marketplace, so you could argue that since NU and BU and UMass are part of the "Boston Marketplace" they could give the Big East Boston - but no one wants Boston for major college football as even BC draws flies on TV.

The Albany posters appropriately state that Syracuse is NYC's school - if not Notre Dame or Michigan, believe it or not.

The plans I've hears of for a "Catholic Conference" haven't included ND or 'Nova, BTW.

[Seawolf97]

Boy this conversation came out of no where. I think Stonybrooks immediate future is with the Big South and possibly beyond 2011 when it comes to football. We all are expecting some huge shake out with conferences sometime after 2011 both FCS and FBS, the Big East splitting into a football/basketball arrangement, a new CAA or a new conference. It is mostly educated speculation for now.
I could see Stonybrook as an FBS program maybe in 10 to 12 years at the earliest. There is alot of private funding starting to flow into the university for both academic projects and the athletic department. Realistically if Stonybrook ever went FBS or big time what about the ACC? They have no footpriint in the NYC Metro Area and we sit between Boston College and Maryland. NYC is Big East turf so putting an ACC member in their backyard could make sense and be draw. The Nassau Coliseum is big enough for college hoops and an ACC Stonybrook playing their is possible. But this is at least a decade away. But hey who knows.

[FiniteMan]

If your talking about the NYC market, Albany is just as much in the race as Stony Brook. People that talk about Stony Brook being part of the NYC market just don't understand NY State. Stony Brook is in Suffolk County, not Nassau. There is no great love for Stony Brook in NYC. People in NYC watch Syracuse games and Syracuse is 100 miles further away from NYC than Albany is. My point is that Stony Brook isn't that close and if they're willing to watch Syracuse then they're willing to watch Albany.

Albany is one of only 4 SUNY Centers in the NY State. NYC television goes as far north as Dutchess and Ulster Counties, which are a short hop to Albany. If they'll watch Syracuse and Stony Brook, then they'll watch Albany.

UAlbany's problem is that we do not have a champion in state government (aka Ken LaValle). Also, being named after a much hated state government seems to get us misplaced animosity. UAlbany is based in the state capitol but don't blame the university because your angry at the Governor or Assembly Speaker.

In summary, winning FBS football would be covered in NYC no matter if it's Albany, Stony Brook or Syracuse. Everyone loves a winner. Don't make some BS call about Stony Brook's geography.

I am not pissing on Albany. They simply are not in the NYC DMA, not as large, and not as hightly ranked academically --- all important criteria in FBS discussions.

I do get your point about nearby relevance, but I don't think FBS conferences move on that. UMASS is not in the Boston DMA, but potentially they should be a big TV draw there. That has not been good enough for the BE. If they were in the Boston DMA --- even in Worchester --- it is likely the BE would have been a lot more willing to push for their inclusion.

I think that if there is a NE FBS conference that emerges in the next 10-20 years taking schools like Delaware, UMASS, and even Stony Brook to FBS, Albany could very well replace Delaware as the NE's 500 Lbs FCS gorrilla. They are the right kind of school to do very well at this level.

[FiniteMan]

... I could see Stonybrook as an FBS program maybe in 10 to 12 years at the earliest. There is alot of private funding starting to flow into the university for both academic projects and the athletic department. Realistically if Stonybrook ever went FBS or big time what about the ACC? They have no footprint in the NYC Metro Area and we sit between Boston College and Maryland. NYC is Big East turf so putting an ACC member in their backyard could make sense and be draw. The Nassau Coliseum is big enough for college hoops and an ACC Stonybrook playing their is possible. But this is at least a decade away. But hey who knows.

I think your optimistic FBS football timeframe is about right. By then the FBS minimum will probably be around 20K and a 25K stadium would likely be required. I can't see your stadium upgraded to 25K before 10 years at the earliest.

Regarding the ACC, I would consider that a longshot too. The ACC is higher in the pecking order than the BE. They have 12 --- a solid number for scheduling. They would have to lose 4 members (to the very stable SEC?.) to want to add schools and at that point they would definitely raid a school like Rutgers instead of you guys.

I think it will be a new NE conference. Barring that, the MAC.

[Seawolf97]

It is not that Stonybrook influences NYC but NYC influences everything around it . About 300,000 people in Nassau and Suffolk counties work in one of the 5 Boroughs and the extension of banking, retail and service related industries spread out from Times Square. I mean Southhampton 100 miles east of midtown has its Blomingdales and Sachs 5th Avenue right in the middle of small town. And Stonybrook Village itself while not a metroplis is a very upscale high income area . So if it becomes of function money that Stonybrook were to move up the money and market are there.

[Seawolf97]

I think your optimistic FBS football timeframe is about right. By then the FBS minimum will probably be around 20K and a 25K stadium would likely be required. I can't see your stadium upgraded to 25K before 10 years at the earliest.

Regarding the ACC, I would consider that a longshot too. The ACC is higher in the pecking order than the BE. They have 12 --- a solid number for scheduling. They would have to lose 4 members (to the very stable SEC?.) to want to add schools and at that point they would definitely raid a school like Rutgers instead of you guys.

I think it will be a new NE conference. Barring that, the MAC.

Point well takenxthumbsupx

[danefan]

I am not pissing on Albany. They simply are not in the NYC DMA, not as large, and not as hightly ranked academically --- all important criteria in FBS discussions.

I do get your point about nearby relevance, but I don't think FBS conferences move on that. UMASS is not in the Boston DMA, but potentially they should be a big TV draw there. That has not been good enough for the BE. If they were in the Boston DMA --- even in Worchester --- it is likely the BE would have been a lot more willing to push for their inclusion.

I think that if there is a NE FBS conference that emerges in the next 10-20 years taking schools like Delaware, UMASS, and even Stony Brook to FBS, Albany could very well replace Delaware as the NE's 500 Lbs FCS gorrilla. They are the right kind of school to do very well at this level.


I honestly think you are living a bit of a pipe dream here. Unfortunately there are too many variables within the SUNY to accurately predict anything. Some that roll off the tip of my tongue: University Presidents, Higher Ed committee members, Controlling party, etc.,

At this point SBU is so far behind Albany athletically that there is no reason for me to believe that SBU's supposed academic advantage is great enough. Just a quick point, which shouldn't be taken lightly, because it is a factor: Albany has more Division I conference championships and NCAA appearances than UB, Bing' and SBU combined. All accomplished with comparably subpar facilities.

That's a fact that should not be ignored.

I'm trying not to knock SBU too bad, because I do think your move to scholarship football may work out in the long run. I just think this talk is putting the carriage before the horse a bit.

And any argument that includes reference to South Florida (or any school below the Mason Dixon Line) is flawed from the start. Football (and college sports in general) in the Northeast cannot be compared to anywhere but the Northeast. So if you are going to compare SBU to anyone, it can really be compared to Buffalo. And you can see how well they are doing.xwhistlex

[Seawolf97]

I have to agree with Danefan this is far out stuff. Considering we havent played a minute of Big South football. As for the Big East, ACC or the MAC -Stonybrook basketball needs to improve light years for any move. Football or any other sport alone wont carry them. The Big Boys want an all round competitive athletic program. But it is interesting discussion nontheless. Hey 10 years ago Stonybrook was playing D3 ball on a dirt field
before 500 fans on a good day. Who knows.

[Dane96]

I don't think he was talking football, but using an example from rowing, since he is obviously a rower.

Ahhhh....MY MISTAKE.

I can admit those!xoopsx

[Dane96]

I really don't disagree with much of what you say in here, but what you are (IMO) glazing over is that EVERY FCS school can tick off 5-10 reasons why they could/should never upgrade to FBS. USF could do that and they have been a hit as an FBS school. All real, valid issues, but none of them are worse than what upgrading schools overcome all the time.



The NYC DMA has 7.391M TV households. To put that in perspective, Chicagoland, the #3 DMA in the US has 3.469M. 10% of the NYC market would qualify as the 40th best DMA in the US. The scale is just enormous.

A toehold in NY is worth considering by almost any conference in the eastern US. Frankly I could see the MAC(!!) offering Stony Brook a slot if SB was ready to play even rudimentary FBS football --- to get NYC exposure.

Two things that are lost in your analysis are the enrollment of the university and it's academic standing. It is not small and I would wager vast majority of the alumni are in NYC or Long Island. That is very signifigant. The fact that it is considered a state flagship of NY and is a highly rated public also plays in it's favor.



I don't disagree with this at all. In spite of their enrollment, SB football is years away from being a legit target for ANY FBS conference. Basketball is not much better.



SB had a hell of a time getting the revenue to build an FCS caliber stadium. I am aware of that, but this MAY be overstated a bit. Not saying it is, --- it may be. It is not uncommon for a single donor or a small group of donors to give a large sum to a University. SB may find that they have a lot more private support if they should decide to upgrade for FBS than they did to upgrade to their current stadium. It is also possible that some fans might fall in love with SB football now and be the donors that weren't there in the past.

I am an alum of UTD. We are a 15K university that beats our chest about thumping 2K universities in DIII. I am embarrassed by that. A lot of my fellow grads who I keep in touch with find nothing inspiring about DIII. Now maybe if UTD were in FCS or FBS or even DII (LSC) our sports love would have us writing ridiculous checks to UTD athletics. Some give for academic reasons. Everyone's threshold or hot button to contribute is different and SB might find that further upgrades become easier.


Buddy...I grew up in NYC; I dont need a NY media market explanation.

Stony Brook is a non-factor...period. Rutgers, UCONN, St. John's, Seton Hall, and Syracuse get more play. Period.

[Dane96]

Boy this conversation came out of no where. I think Stonybrooks immediate future is with the Big South and possibly beyond 2011 when it comes to football. We all are expecting some huge shake out with conferences sometime after 2011 both FCS and FBS, the Big East splitting into a football/basketball arrangement, a new CAA or a new conference. It is mostly educated speculation for now.
I could see Stonybrook as an FBS program maybe in 10 to 12 years at the earliest. There is alot of private funding starting to flow into the university for both academic projects and the athletic department. Realistically if Stonybrook ever went FBS or big time what about the ACC? They have no footpriint in the NYC Metro Area and we sit between Boston College and Maryland. NYC is Big East turf so putting an ACC member in their backyard could make sense and be draw. The Nassau Coliseum is big enough for college hoops and an ACC Stonybrook playing their is possible. But this is at least a decade away. But hey who knows.

I really like you SB97...and your latter posts were much more reasonable than this one so I think you see the big picture. For non-NY fans let me explain why this ACC/Coliseum deal is a non-starter.

First, any new Coliseum will be largely privately funded. That means Stony Brook (an hour a way on a good day) would have to pay HUGE usage fees.

Second...fans are not going to come an hour a way to watch a game.

Third...much like Siena did with the TUC...Hofstra will put the kabash on SBU playing a block a way.

Fourth...again...NO ONE IN NYC cares about Stony Brook to the extent they do of the 6-8 BCS schools we have already mentioned.

Fifth...all the private funding in the world wont do it. Unless the biggest sugar daddy of SBU's life came along...FBS/BCS football is not happening. Boston College, on the low end of funding, has a nearly $75,000,000 projected budget this year. Do you think you are going to get a $300 million dollar donation? By the time SBU would think of moving up, the average mid-level budget in FBS will probably be around the same mark as BC this year. Additionally, you have to factor in completely new facilities to support FBS football. That would probably put, in LONG ISLAND, the cost of an expansion at near $150million on the very low end...probably 200mm.

It simply cannot happen without State support...and the State laws do not allow this type of funding to occur. Hell, Rutgers needed a state bailout of nearly $50mm not including the football stadium expansion funding just to get to the level they are at.

[Dane96]

I am not pissing on Albany. They simply are not in the NYC DMA, not as large, and not as hightly ranked academically --- all important criteria in FBS discussions.

I do get your point about nearby relevance, but I don't think FBS conferences move on that. UMASS is not in the Boston DMA, but potentially they should be a big TV draw there. That has not been good enough for the BE. If they were in the Boston DMA --- even in Worchester --- it is likely the BE would have been a lot more willing to push for their inclusion.

I think that if there is a NE FBS conference that emerges in the next 10-20 years taking schools like Delaware, UMASS, and even Stony Brook to FBS, Albany could very well replace Delaware as the NE's 500 Lbs FCS gorrilla. They are the right kind of school to do very well at this level.

I stopped reading when you said highly ranked academically as an important facet to FBS--

WHOAK buddy...guess you havent been around many FBS programs.

[Seawolf97]

Buddy...I grew up in NY and if my family isn't in the garment center...they are in media.

I dont need a NY media market explanation.

Stony Brook is a non-factor...period. Rutgers, UCONN, St. John's, Seton Hall, and Syracuse get more play. Period.

Couldnt agree more. Those schools are established Big East powers with I guess UConn being the newcomer on the block. But looking out 15 or 20 years who knows. Uconn in 1988 was pretty much an unknown other than a big state school. Some of these schools have been at a high level of college sports for over 50 years -so you are right Stonybrook is not in their league now. I guess the next measuring point for Stonybrook is at the end of 2011 . Im sure we will still be an FCS program whether its the Big South or not Im not sure. So alot of this talk is pure speculation we have a long way to go .

[Dane96]

I would bet the farm on Stony Brook, Albany, and others we speculate about, will be playing in a like-minded league.

Here's the thing-- I think in 10-15 years...Albany and SBU have the potential to be big-time. The issue, however, is the State. LaValle can do a lot...but if he starts circumventing the law he will be done very quickly.

Unfortunately for all of us..the State of New York sucks the life out of its DI teams.

[Seawolf97]

I really like you SB97...and your latter posts were much more reasonable than this one so I think you see the big picture. For non-NY fans let me explain why this ACC/Coliseum deal is a non-starter.

First, any new Coliseum will be largely privately funded. That means Stony Brook (an hour a way on a good day) would have to pay HUGE usage fees.

Second...fans are not going to come an hour a way to watch a game.

Third...much like Siena did with the TUC...Hofstra will put the kabash on SBU playing a block a way.

Fourth...again...NO ONE IN NYC cares about Stony Brook to the extent they do of the 6-8 BCS schools we have already mentioned.

Fifth...all the private funding in the world wont do it. Unless the biggest sugar daddy of SBU's life came along...FBS/BCS football is not happening. Boston College, on the low end of funding, has a nearly $75,000,000 projected budget this year. Do you think you are going to get a $300 million dollar donation? By the time SBU would think of moving up, the average mid-level budget in FBS will probably be around the same mark as BC this year. Additionally, you have to factor in completely new facilities to support FBS football. That would probably put, in LONG ISLAND, the cost of an expansion at near $150million on the very low end...probably 200mm.

It simply cannot happen without State support...and the State laws do not allow this type of funding to occur. Hell, Rutgers needed a state bailout of nearly $50mm not including the football stadium expansion funding just to get to the level they are at.

I think I tripped the Albany-Stonybrook nerve. This is all about money and alot of what IF's and now a state that has moths coming out of its pockets. I really dont expect to wake up anytime in the near future and hear about us joining any major conference. It really is at best a good speculation thread -so we speculate. When the rubber (money) hits the road the fun tends to stop. They would need a blessing from the Pope and an act of Congress just to expand our stadium. 25k-30k stadium in the middle of Stonybrook Village-might as well tell the residents your dumping spent nuclear fuel in their school yards. $200 million in funding would be the easy part. So no we will be in the Big South and the AE for quite sometime.

[Dane96]

LOL...now that was a funny post. I love the nuclear fuel reference.

[FiniteMan]

I honestly think you are living a bit of a pipe dream here. Unfortunately there are too many variables within the SUNY to accurately predict anything. Some that roll off the tip of my tongue: University Presidents, Higher Ed committee members, Controlling party, etc.,

At this point SBU is so far behind Albany athletically that there is no reason for me to believe that SBU's supposed academic advantage is great enough. Just a quick point, which shouldn't be taken lightly, because it is a factor: Albany has more Division I conference championships and NCAA appearances than UB, Bing' and SBU combined. All accomplished with comparably subpar facilities.

That's a fact that should not be ignored.

I'm trying not to knock SBU too bad, because I do think your move to scholarship football may work out in the long run. I just think this talk is putting the carriage before the horse a bit.

And any argument that includes reference to South Florida (or any school below the Mason Dixon Line) is flawed from the start. Football (and college sports in general) in the Northeast cannot be compared to anywhere but the Northeast. So if you are going to compare SBU to anyone, it can really be compared to Buffalo. And you can see how well they are doing.xwhistlex

I have no connection to Stony Brook.

I don't think your Buffalo compairison is a bad one, although StonyBrook today is at least 10 years behind where Buffalo was 10 years ago and there is a big difference between being in the Buffalo DMA and the NYC DMA.

Of the schools in the BCS conferences the vast majority are ranked tier 2 or higher in the US News ratings, of the 60+ FBS schools not in the BCS about 10 of them are in the top 2 tiers and (with the exception the MAC trio Buffalo, Ohio, and Miami (oxford)) they are split between the MVC and CUSA --- the two closest to BCS conferences out there. That does seem to imply a real value applied to top academic schools at the FBS level.


UB is ranked slightly below Stony Brook in Tier 2.

[FiniteMan]

..the State of New York sucks the life out of its DI teams.

Something at least we can agree on.

Like SeaWolf97, I am merely looking at what could be YEARS down the line. Certainly Stony Brook is at the right level of competition for their school today.

[Dane96]

There is looking...and there is a sense of reality to looking. You are just looking.

And to say Stony Brook is 10 years behind Buffalo, again, shows your lack of knowledge of the situation with the SUNY'S.

Buffalo was probably the WORST (or at the best worst 3) team to ever be prepped for a move to FBS football in the history of FBS football. A perennial loser at FCS, no money, no fanbase, a terrible recruiting program, and woeful facilities.

In fact, there have been numerous studies written about WHAT not to do when you move up...and they all point to Buffalo.

Thankfully, Turner Gill has that program going in the right direction. IF anything, Stony Brook is not in a worse off position than Buffalo was.

And we get in man...apparently you like to study or you work in media. Your stats, however, do not tell the story. Listen to the people that actually live/have lived in these locals and with a connection to State government.

[Redwyn]

xeyebrowx xnonox

Whatever it is you are smoking...I would like to know. Rollover opponent versus far more challenging southen squads?

Penn State...if you played them...would absolutely house you. I dont believe you have beaten Hofstra yet.

Against rollover and not so strong Albany (who by the way, has been nationally ranked at every level played...and has played in bowl games, including versus Central Florida), Stony Brook has managed to win 4 of 14 games, including a hotly disputed call a few years back allowing the Brook to edge the Danes 7-3.

Albany has been 89-52 since moving up to DII and then FCS (I-AA as you like to call it)...playing a far superior schedule than Stony Brook (and with less rides...even going back to DII and grant-in-aid days). We have had only 3 Sub-500 years since 1996 and posted 9 seven-win seasons.

Stony Brook, in the same time-frame is 57-65, posting 6 sub-500 seasons and having only 1 seven-win season.

Now dont get me wrong...I like Stony Brook's move to full-rides...but...KNOW DETAILS BEFORE YOU POST. And I can bet the players didnt use the term roll-over opponents regarding Penn State, Hofstra...and especially Albany because your HEAD COACH is a former stud player and coach for Albany. Hell, if Ford had retired he would have been our coach. He would never allow his players to use that term about any team...let alone Albany.

Consider this my public service announcement on Stony Brook football for you.

My bad, I should have been a bit clearer. I meant this in a rowing context. Penn State, Albany, and Hofstra rowing, with rare strong seasons as the exception, are far poorer rowing programs than Stony Brook. In football....yeahhh, SBU has no shot against Penn State, though I'd imagine the latter two opponents it has a shot at closing on fast.

Sorry bout that

[Dane96]

I have no connection to Stony Brook.

I don't think your Buffalo compairison is a bad one, although StonyBrook today is at least 10 years behind where Buffalo was 10 years ago and there is a big difference between being in the Buffalo DMA and the NYC DMA.

Of the schools in the BCS conferences the vast majority are ranked tier 2 or higher in the US News ratings, of the 60+ FBS schools not in the BCS about 10 of them are in the top 2 tiers and (with the exception the MAC trio Buffalo, Ohio, and Miami (oxford)) they are split between the MVC and CUSA --- the two closest to BCS conferences out there. That does seem to imply a real value applied to top academic schools at the FBS level.


UB is ranked slightly below Stony Brook in Tier 2.

The fact you are quoting the US News rankings as schools that also happen to be FBS is quite comical.

[Dane96]

My bad, I should have been a bit clearer. I meant this in a rowing context. Penn State, Albany, and Hofstra rowing, with rare strong seasons as the exception, are far poorer rowing programs than Stony Brook. In football....yeahhh, SBU has no shot against Penn State, though I'd imagine the latter two opponents it has a shot at closing on fast.

Sorry bout that

No need to apologize-- my mistake, and someone pointed it out to me. But at least you got a historical perspective of the football programs. xpeacex

[Redwyn]

I feel as if we continue to talk in circles here regarding Stony Brook's market. Same is to be said for our hoops board. Stony Brook has ZERO importance media wise with the NYC market. It is 2 hours (on a good day) from NYC.

NYC media market for college will revolve around St. John's, Seton Hall, Syracuse, UCONN, RUTGERS, Manhattan, Fordham, and Hofstra for hoops...(the latter schools at the bottom end of that media pile).

In football...as long as they keep playing well, UConn and Rutgers will get most of the play...but.....Penn State also gets coverage.

Stony Brook...doesnt even equate to Nassau County...let alone the metro NY, NJ, and Connecticut area. The funds will never be there for a major athletic boost unless it is privately raised-- it is against the law in NYS for scholarships and direct funding to go from State coffers to athletics.

Stony Brook has Newsday...and that's about that.

Whoaaa...There're a few issues with this...

1. I live in Stony Brook and work in NYC. I have, during rush hour, an hour commute...tops. For Saturday games I'd imagine 45 minutes from Manhattan to Stony Brook. There are two major routes that hit campus, so game time jams are unlikely no matter how big the stadium.

2. This is a verry long distance outlook we're talking about. No one would argue U Conn and Rutgers don't command a larger fan base ATM in NYC, but, then again, Stony Brook is only 50 years old and currently posts a larger graduating class than both schools (and class size still grows). It's also historically accurate to show the NYC area's disdain for out of state and upstate programs. The perfect example is the hatred of the Meadowlands by NYC fans, the transfer of the NJ Nets to Brooklyn, and the removal of the "NJ" marking on the Metrostars when they were taken over. And need I ask if anyone in the NYC area is a Buffalo Bills or Buffalo Sabres fan? I know....actually, I know more Red Sox fans in Metro NY than Bills or Sabres.

Wait for a little bit. Hofstra is threatened by SBU's expansion, which is evidenced best by its attempt to compete with Stony Brook by founding a medical school with North Shore LIJ, especially with SBU's most recent attempt to buy out a Law School to compete in that zone as well. Remember, as a DI-AA school athletes are looking for career security after football (with rare exception), and SBU of the NYC area schools is one of the few giving full rides with the level of reputation it boasts. I'm not saying things will change any time soon, but it is not unrealistic that SBU could move into a primary Metro-NYC market position. Let me address this: Albany CANNOT compete effectively with SBU for the NYC market. Distance alone disqualifies the program, no matter how strong it gets. This isn't saying Albany isn't a wonderful school with an incredible athletic and academic tradition. It's just saying that the Albany metro area will remain its chief benefactor.

3. I highly doubt that Nassau and NYC are currently untouched by SBU's fan base. This is made clear with Stony Brook's increasing success in recruitment on the island, a zone Hofstra used to dominate (it definitely still has the upper hand though as the senior institution).

4. Newsday DESPISES Stony Brook. They run an article an average of once a year (it's usually negative), and "forgot" to run articles about our Softball or Baseball NCAA tourny bids until weeks after. The school has a very poor relationship with the LI media outlets, something it must improve.

[Dane96]

xthumbsdownx

You defy ALL traffic if you are making it to NYC in an hour from Stony Brook. What roads, other than the LIE and the Southern State, could you possibly be taking. And you wouldnt be taking the Southern State anyway. And what hours are you leaving.

I AM CALLING MAJOR BULL****- it is 60 miles for any known person to go from Stony Brook to NYC. So....please explain this to me-- are there no cars on the road when you travel? Straight from the Stony Brook website: "Stony Brook is about a 2 hour drive from New York City in average conditions, abbsolute best case 1 hour, in rush hour maybe 4 hours or more." From Loving Long Island: "Long Island Expressway (I-495) Affectionately known as the world’s largest parking lot, the Long Island Expressway (we call it the Elle Eye E for short) runs through the middle of Long Island. The LIE is the quickest way to get to Riverhead or Wine Country. Typically you’ll only encounter parking lot like traffic on the Long Island Expressway during rush hour. At off times you’ll make excellent time. Avoid driving West toward the City during morning rush-hour and East (away from the city) during evening rush-hour."

As for point two...it is not historically accurate to say that NYC has a disdain for Upstate and Out-of-State programs. What planet do you live on? I grew up in Sheepshead Bay (Brooklyn)...and when I wasnt there...I was spending time in the other Boroughs and Nassau County (family). Out of state football was ALL the NYC area had except for Army. So...most NYC football fans rooted for teams out of state. As for hoops...do you know how many Syracuse, Rutgers, and UCONN grads live in NYC? Do you know how big the Michigan and Notre Dame alumni in NYC number?

Additionally, who from NYC hates the Meadowlands...and why is this even in the argument?!?!?! The Meadowlands is hated so much that the Jets/Giants/NJ/NY/and Port Authority are all making it easier to get there by building a state of the art extension of the trains from NYC. And the Nets to Brooklyn....again what does that have to do with the argument? For the record, though, your knowledge of NYC affairs much like Finitefan...are completely off. Right now the NETS are going nowhere because Bruce Ratner's plan is getting waxed at every point. It has been blocked...and blocked again. Remember...initially the Nets were supposed to be in their new Barclay's Arena by 2010. That will never happen at the current pace. As for the Bills and Sabres...hell Western NY is not part of our argument here-- they may as well be part of Ohio or Michigan.

The bottom line to your point two: No way in hell Stony Brook overtakes the combination of the current FBS schools...and the FBS affiliated hoops schools. If you read the post correctly, I said Hofstra hasnt and couldnt either.

To your point three-- no one said untouched fanbase in Nassau or NYC...just OVERRUN by other University Alumni. As for recruiting Long Island...you clearly again are not updated on the 411-- most LI kids leave the State...or go upstate to Buffalo, Binghamton, Albany, or a private school. There is a reason people in upstate cant stand Strong Island kids who invade their towns each fall. Stony Brook does not recruit, primarily, the same kid as Hofstra. Niether does Albany, Buffalo, or Binghamton for that matter. Hofstra has its own niche.

To point four--Newsday despises Stony Brook. Hmmmm...that's news to us. I see plenty of SBU articles in Newsday. What I do see, as well, is OTHER schools getting the coverage...primarily St. John's. That being said, NEWSDAY IS NOT A NYC METRO PAPER-- It is known as a LI RAG! When you are talking NYC papers...it is the Post, the Daily News, and the NY TIMES. Hell, Newsday promotes itself as "THE VOICE OF LONG ISLAND." As for running an article "once a year", I suggest you go check that stat. I found 4 Stony Brook Articles from a one week period in May.

[danefan]

Feww..........I'm glad we're all back to reality here. That conversation could've gotten carried away quickly.

On another note: Its great to see some increased SBU representation on the board. Welcome to all!

[Uncle Buck]

First let me say this, the thread is entertaining at the least.

Redwyn, As for SBU moving to FBS, not going to happen in any time that i can imagine. The fan base on LI will not reach the minimum attendance standards even with a successful program.

Hofstra, even with it's playoff appearances and players going pro, attendance remains abysmal. We're a heck of a lot closer to NYC and a majority of alum, but NY is a pro town and always will be. Media coverage is lacking at best and i don't see that changing.

Also, HU has never dominated LI recruiting because we did so little of it. That was a knock on Gardi by HS coaches all over the island. This year Cohen did a great job getting the top LI talent, the first time in a long time.

SBU is getting better and will IMO compete at the FCS level, but anything more than that, i just don't see it in the cards. You can argue until you're blue in the face, Long Islanders just don't care about college sports. They would rather be at the mall or coaching their kids teams.

Lastly, i agree with Dane96, no way you make NY in 60 minutes during rush hour, no way in hell. Maybe Sunday morning no cars doing 85 on the LIE you can make Manhattan, but no way on a weekday.

Oh, before i forget, I didn't even know HU had a rowing team. Then again, it's only a club sport, no wonder people aren't getting excited. Not too many club sports draw fans other than friends and family if that.

[danefan]

First let me say this, the thread is entertaining at the least.

Redwyn, As for SBU moving to FBS, not going to happen in any time that i can imagine. The fan base on LI will not reach the minimum attendance standards even with a successful program.

Hofstra, even with it's playoff appearances and players going pro, attendance remains abysmal. We're a heck of a lot closer to NYC and a majority of alum, but NY is a pro town and always will be. Media coverage is lacking at best and i don't see that changing.

Also, HU has never dominated LI recruiting because we did so little of it. That was a knock on Gardi by HS coaches all over the island. This year Cohen did a great job getting the top LI talent, the first time in a long time.

SBU is getting better and will IMO compete at the FCS level, but anything more than that, i just don't see it in the cards. You can argue until you're blue in the face, Long Islanders just don't care about college sports. They would rather be at the mall or coaching their kids teams.

Lastly, i agree with Dane96, no way you make NY in 60 minutes during rush hour, no way in hell. Maybe Sunday morning no cars doing 85 on the LIE you can make Manhattan, but no way on a weekday.

Oh, before i forget, I didn't even know HU had a rowing team. Then again, it's only a club sport, no wonder people aren't getting excited. Not too many club sports draw fans other than friends and family if that.

And the Independent View strikes again.

I was going to bring Hofstra into the equation but I didn't want to sound like I was bashing them.

If a school like Hofstra can't do it (attendance, media, etc...) what makes you think a school like SBU that has to jump through hoops in the state government can?

One other thing: I feel you guys are going to be in for a world of hurt when the earlier of the following two things happen: 1. the majority changes in the State and Ken Lavalle loses his power (likely in November), 2. Ken Lavalle retires.

Lets face it: without Lavalle you have no stadium, and thus no fan draw, no recruiting base, no donors and no wins. And to be honest, likely that you don't have Priore either. Ken Lavalle's name is on the stadium for a reason. What happens when that pipeline runs dry? You'll be in the same boat as us. Rowing against the current with one paddle and a leaky boat.xpeacex

[Uncle Buck]

And the Independent View strikes again.

I was going to bring Hofstra into the equation but I didn't want to sound like I was bashing them.

If a school like Hofstra can't do it (attendance, media, etc...) what makes you think a school like SBU that has to jump through hoops in the state government can? ...


You can mention us all you want, i have always griped about Newday's lack of local college coverage. This was especially true when we were a consistent top 25 program and making the playoffs. The fan base and media are just not interested and that's something we just live with.

Now, if SBU could promise school tax rebates for those who buy season tickets, then yes, they will have enough in attendance and more than likely have to play at the Meadowlands.

[Redwyn]

xthumbsdownx

You defy ALL traffic if you are making it to NYC in an hour from Stony Brook. What roads, other than the LIE and the Southern State, could you possibly be taking. And you wouldnt be taking the Southern State anyway. And what hours are you leaving.

I AM CALLING MAJOR BULL****- it is 60 miles for any known person to go from Stony Brook to NYC. So....please explain this to me-- are there no cars on the road when you travel? Straight from the Stony Brook website: "Stony Brook is about a 2 hour drive from New York City in average conditions, abbsolute best case 1 hour, in rush hour maybe 4 hours or more." From Loving Long Island: "Long Island Expressway (I-495) Affectionately known as the world’s largest parking lot, the Long Island Expressway (we call it the Elle Eye E for short) runs through the middle of Long Island. The LIE is the quickest way to get to Riverhead or Wine Country. Typically you’ll only encounter parking lot like traffic on the Long Island Expressway during rush hour. At off times you’ll make excellent time. Avoid driving West toward the City during morning rush-hour and East (away from the city) during evening rush-hour."

As for point two...it is not historically accurate to say that NYC has a disdain for Upstate and Out-of-State programs. What planet do you live on? I grew up in Sheepshead Bay (Brooklyn)...and when I wasnt there...I was spending time in the other Boroughs and Nassau County (family). Out of state football was ALL the NYC area had except for Army. So...most NYC football fans rooted for teams out of state. As for hoops...do you know how many Syracuse, Rutgers, and UCONN grads live in NYC? Do you know how big the Michigan and Notre Dame alumni in NYC number?

Additionally, who from NYC hates the Meadowlands...and why is this even in the argument?!?!?! The Meadowlands is hated so much that the Jets/Giants/NJ/NY/and Port Authority are all making it easier to get there by building a state of the art extension of the trains from NYC. And the Nets to Brooklyn....again what does that have to do with the argument? For the record, though, your knowledge of NYC affairs much like Finitefan...are completely off. Right now the NETS are going nowhere because Bruce Ratner's plan is getting waxed at every point. It has been blocked...and blocked again. Remember...initially the Nets were supposed to be in their new Barclay's Arena by 2010. That will never happen at the current pace. As for the Bills and Sabres...hell Western NY is not part of our argument here-- they may as well be part of Ohio or Michigan.

The bottom line to your point two: No way in hell Stony Brook overtakes the combination of the current FBS schools...and the FBS affiliated hoops schools. If you read the post correctly, I said Hofstra hasnt and couldnt either.

To your point three-- no one said untouched fanbase in Nassau or NYC...just OVERRUN by other University Alumni. As for recruiting Long Island...you clearly again are not updated on the 411-- most LI kids leave the State...or go upstate to Buffalo, Binghamton, Albany, or a private school. There is a reason people in upstate cant stand Strong Island kids who invade their towns each fall. Stony Brook does not recruit, primarily, the same kid as Hofstra. Niether does Albany, Buffalo, or Binghamton for that matter. Hofstra has its own niche.

To point four--Newsday despises Stony Brook. Hmmmm...that's news to us. I see plenty of SBU articles in Newsday. What I do see, as well, is OTHER schools getting the coverage...primarily St. John's. That being said, NEWSDAY IS NOT A NYC METRO PAPER-- It is known as a LI RAG! When you are talking NYC papers...it is the Post, the Daily News, and the NY TIMES. Hell, Newsday promotes itself as "THE VOICE OF LONG ISLAND." As for running an article "once a year", I suggest you go check that stat. I found 4 Stony Brook Articles from a one week period in May.

I don't want argue any further about SBU's football right now, it seems that all of you know far more than I do and it has been a pleasure learning from all of you (seriously, no sarcasm intended). It's amazing the politics and the internal workings of these things, and I'm quite excited to see the future of both FCS and FBS over the next few decades.

But Dane96, I do want to help you get out to the east end of the island a bit easier. In suffolk there's actually a coin phrase they use for the the LI Expressway...it's the road taken only by morons when it's light out. The easiest way to hit campus is to take the Northern State to Rt. 347 right to the campus entrance. It's a shorter route, like the Southern State doesn't allow truck traffic, and I've very rarely if ever seen it jammed. The only use the LIE has for traffic is to cross through it using the Sagtikos (sp?) or Seaford Oyster Bay Expressway (Meadowbrook and Wantagh don't have LIE exits, they're just S-State and N-State crossings). It's a bit of maneuvering, but it's not unreasonable during open highway time to take either three lane highway at 65-70 ish (typical driving speed on either road) and make campus from the city in under an hour. From the Verrazanno it's usually a bit longer, as the Belt is never completely devoid of slow-downs. In all seriousness though, I used to make it onto Staten Island in the better part of an hour when I traveled between a fellowship I had at Princeton and my family at Stony Brook.

Hope this helps. Your insight has to be some of the smarter I've read. While I'm not totally in agreement of SBU's market value, you seem to absolutely understand the issues preventing it from being any major influence. Looking forward to discussing topics with you in the future!

P.S. Small world, my family's originally from Canarsie!

[Redwyn]

And the Independent View strikes again.

Rowing against the current with one paddle and a leaky boat.xpeacex

mmmmm, sounds like Stony Brook Crew to me xrolleyesx

I am interested in LaValle a bit. He's not publicized well on campus and, while it's clear who built the stadium, his influence isn't far greater. What has he done for SBU?

[Dane96]

I don't want argue any further about SBU's football right now, it seems that all of you know far more than I do and it has been a pleasure learning from all of you (seriously, no sarcasm intended). It's amazing the politics and the internal workings of these things, and I'm quite excited to see the future of both FCS and FBS over the next few decades.

But Dane96, I do want to help you get out to the east end of the island a bit easier. In suffolk there's actually a coin phrase they use for the the LI Expressway...it's the road taken only by morons when it's light out. The easiest way to hit campus is to take the Northern State to Rt. 347 right to the campus entrance. It's a shorter route, like the Southern State doesn't allow truck traffic, and I've very rarely if ever seen it jammed. The only use the LIE has for traffic is to cross through it using the Sagtikos (sp?) or Seaford Oyster Bay Expressway (Meadowbrook and Wantagh don't have LIE exits, they're just S-State and N-State crossings). It's a bit of maneuvering, but it's not unreasonable during open highway time to take either three lane highway at 65-70 ish (typical driving speed on either road) and make campus from the city in under an hour. From the Verrazanno it's usually a bit longer, as the Belt is never completely devoid of slow-downs. In all seriousness though, I used to make it onto Staten Island in the better part of an hour when I traveled between a fellowship I had at Princeton and my family at Stony Brook.

Hope this helps. Your insight has to be some of the smarter I've read. While I'm not totally in agreement of SBU's market value, you seem to absolutely understand the issues preventing it from being any major influence. Looking forward to discussing topics with you in the future!

P.S. Small world, my family's originally from Canarsie!

Thanks for the advice...but I don't take the L.I.E! Much like you...I am too smart (and suffered through to much road rage) to take that hell hole. xthumbsupx I know just about every back road in Long Island- have family in Roslyn, Plainview/Bethpage, Setauket, Dix Hills, Corum, and Montauk. Ironically, my house looked at the Verrazano...I was Exit 9 on the Belt Parkway (Knapp Street) for my entire life.

If I get the job I think I will get...I will be a major part of re-inventing public transportation to ease the LIE, Northern and Southern State Parkways.

Unfortunately, too many LI'ers are mired in their love of cars so it will be an uphill battle. xsmhx

[Dane96]

mmmmm, sounds like Stony Brook Crew to me xrolleyesx

I am interested in LaValle a bit. He's not publicized well on campus and, while it's clear who built the stadium, his influence isn't far greater. What has he done for SBU?

He...has basically built your school from a rural school focusing on Medicine and Science into a major Public University.

The amount of $$$ he has funnelled the way of SBU through his chairing of the Higher Ed Committee is absolutely astounding. He is one of the most influential Senators in NYS Legislative History, with regards to helping his constituents.

Without Kevin LaValle...and some ballsy leadership by your outgoing President...Stony Brook would be just what it was 20-30 years ago-- A solid but not MAJOR public school.

[danefan]

mmmmm, sounds like Stony Brook Crew to me xrolleyesx

I am interested in LaValle a bit. He's not publicized well on campus and, while it's clear who built the stadium, his influence isn't far greater. What has he done for SBU?

Ken Lavalle has the most powerful SUNY position out there (in my and many other's opinions) - Chairman of the Senate Higher Education Committee. That gives him enourmous budgetary power to allocate to SBU basically whatever he wants to get through. Prime example is this year's budget: Without Lavalle its a virtual guarantee that SBU gets no money for your basketball renovation or your stadium expansion.

If I was a SBU fan I would be kissing the ground that Lavalle walks on. Having him in your corner these last few years has been an absolute godsend (IMO). If there is anything Albany alumns are envious of SBU about it is your ties with Lavalle. Especially considering that he was at one point a good friend of UAlbany and in 1986 was honored with the UAlbany Medallion of the University - the highest honor given by UAlbany. xwhistlex

[danefan]

BTW, welcome Redwyn, good to have some more SBU supporters on hand!

[Redwyn]

If I get the job I think I will get...I will be a major part of re-inventing public transportation to ease the LIE, Northern and Southern State Parkways.

Unfortunately, too many LI'ers are mired in their love of cars so it will be an uphill battle. xsmhx

Thank god for people like you. I want to live on LI for the rest of my life, but if the build up keeps going without a highway change....not so sure.

Good luck!

[Husky Alum]

If I get the job I think I will get

Um, thanks for the phone call. Where/when we celebrating?

[Dane96]

I didnt get it yet...of course I would have called.

Apparently...the paperwork is being typed. It is two weeks now....and I am getting a little peeved.

[Larryl9797]

The problem is that SB is now has a national travel expense while being a regional team.
There are 3 home games that your opponent is local to LI that the average Joe will have *any* connection to.. I will give you props for the Elon (top 25) and Colgate (top 25, regional) game and Hofstra (local rivalry) games. If you are not up there with the national teams you wont get any love from the larger regional / national papers.

Unfortunetly I think that you have the same visability problems all the NEC teams have, now you are in the Big South Conference dealing with it.
Just my xtwocentsx

[Seawolf97]

This has been quite a thead! Covered everything from FBS to Long Island
traffic, Newsday and Stonybrook Rowing .xlolx

[Seawolf97]

Still want to see how he gets from NYC to SBU in an hour. Northern Parkway isnt much better than any other parkway and RT 347 is all lights and mall traffic.xconfusedx

[Seawolf97]

I would bet the farm on Stony Brook, Albany, and others we speculate about, will be playing in a like-minded league.

Here's the thing-- I think in 10-15 years...Albany and SBU have the potential to be big-time. The issue, however, is the State. LaValle can do a lot...but if he starts circumventing the law he will be done very quickly.

Unfortunately for all of us..the State of New York sucks the life out of its DI teams.

Yes they do-no doubt about it. New if only we can build our hoops program. That is a major mess. Good luck this year !