UD transfers

[ChickenMan]

NEWARK -- In case you haven't noticed, the University of Delaware football team has a lot of transfers on its roster. It has led to some perceptions of the program: a quarterback recruited out of high school has no chance to play at UD; the Blue Hens have become a mercenary program; coach K.C. Keeler should change the wording engraved on the Statue of Liberty to: "Give me your quarterbacks, your defensive backs, your unhappy tailbacks yearning to carry the ball, the wretched refuse of your NCAA Division I-A roster."

It's a perception that Keeler said leaves him "befuddled."

Let's start with the facts. The Hens have 19 transfers on the roster. It's the third-most in the Colonial Athletic Association, behind Massachusetts, which has 22, and Hofstra, which has 21. The rest of the CAA schools have five or fewer.

Northern Iowa, which Delaware beat in the I-AA playoffs last season, has 24 transfers.



http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080817/SPORTS07/808170372/1002/SPORTS

[Houndawg]

NEWARK -- In case you haven't noticed, the University of Delaware football team has a lot of transfers on its roster. It has led to some perceptions of the program: a quarterback recruited out of high school has no chance to play at UD; the Blue Hens have become a mercenary program; coach K.C. Keeler should change the wording engraved on the Statue of Liberty to: "Give me your quarterbacks, your defensive backs, your unhappy tailbacks yearning to carry the ball, the wretched refuse of your NCAA Division I-A roster."

It's a perception that Keeler said leaves him "befuddled."

Let's start with the facts. The Hens have 19 transfers on the roster. It's the third-most in the Colonial Athletic Association, behind Massachusetts, which has 22, and Hofstra, which has 21. The rest of the CAA schools have five or fewer.

Northern Iowa, which Delaware beat in the I-AA playoffs last season, has 24 transfers.



http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080817/SPORTS07/808170372/1002/SPORTS


No need to apologize. xconfusedx

[ChickenMan]

No need to apologize. xconfusedx

I don't know where you came up with the impression that the article was an 'apology'??? It certainly was not.. as you stated.. there is no need to apologize.

I posted it because it was interesting and it addressed a topic that has been debated here on numerous occasions.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Interesting article, and I especially liked this gem from the comment section...


Transfers are simply part of the recruiting process at the FCS level. It's nearly impossible to compete at the top of FCS without accepting "quality" transfers

Because Richmond, JMU, New Hampshire, and Appalachian State are loaded with FBS transfers. xlolx Of course, everyone knows that second-string players at schools like Syracuse and Pittsburgh would be all-stars on any "I-AA" roster.

[93henfan]

Of course, everyone knows that second-string players at schools like Syracuse and Pittsburgh would be all-stars on any "I-AA" roster.

Maybe not Syracuse, but Pitt has been a reliable source for 1st round NFL picks.xnodx

[PantherRob82]

We have 24 transfers? How many of those are CC or JC?

[93henfan]

We have 24 transfers? How many of those are CC or JC?

What's it matter? Any program with transfers is doomed. DOOMED, I tell ya!xlolx

[Tribe4SF]

If I-A transfers were the key to a national championship, Hampton would hold the trophy rather than ASU. JMU won a title, and Richmond, New Hampshire and W&M have fielded strong contenders over the last five years with few, or no transfers.

Some schools seem to be buying in to the belief that transfers are essential. Hofstra is the latest CAA program to swell their ranks. Not a surprise since their coach earned his wings at Delaware. A good many W&M fans point to the phenemenon as why we've fallen off the last few years. I see that as a weak excuse. The Spiders have kicked our butts for three years running with home grown recruits.

Article is wrong in citing W&M with no transfers on roster. FS Robert Livingston transferred from Western Michigan in January of 2007.

[PaladinFan]

We'll see the better theory on football team construction. Furman will start exactly zero transfers against Delaware (In fact, I don't even know if we have any on the team).

[93henfan]

We'll see the better theory on football team construction. Furman will start exactly zero transfers against Delaware (In fact, I don't even know if we have any on the team).

Very favorable timing and location for you to test your hypothesis in this one-game experiment!

[PantherRob82]

We'll see the better theory on football team construction. Furman will start exactly zero transfers against Delaware (In fact, I don't even know if we have any on the team).

Not even a juco or community college transfer?

[Rob Iola]

Very favorable timing and location for you to test your hypothesis in this one-game experiment!
We're gonna kick Furman's soft baby powder-caked a$$ all over South Carolina - so hard that even Citadel could beat them...

[JayJ79]

We have 24 transfers? How many of those are CC or JC?

Of the 102 players currently listed on the website roster for UNI:

6 players have previously been enrolled in schools with FBS teams (3 from Iowa State, 1 from Baylor, 1 from Notre Dame, 1 from Minnesota)
1 player was at a D2 school (Augustana-SD)
20 players have been enrolled at a CC or JC
74 players have only their highschool listed
1 player has no previous school listed (a RS-FR punter from Kalona. homeschooled perhaps?)


That is going strictly by the roster listing for previous schools. They didn't necessarily play FB at those schools, and I know that some of the CCs/JCs don't even HAVE football teams.

[JayJ79]

And for Delaware:
(again, just going off what is listed on the website roster)
97 players listed:

15 from FBS schools
3 from other FCS schools
1 from D3
1 from JC/CC
77 from HS


So either junior colleges and such aren't as prominent out east, or Delaware just didn't list most of them on the roster.

[DFW HOYA]

It's all going to vary per a school's transfer policy and if it works for the school, it ought to work for the team.

Georgetown has no transfers listed in 2008, down from two in 2007 who both graduated.

[PantherRob82]

From Panther Nation:

Actually, UNI has 23. Northern University is a HS.
And...Grant Lilly, Daren Hudak, and JP Helgens don't even have numbers given to them. Plus, Daren and JP went to Kirkwood and Hawkeye CC's...they don't even have football teams.

[MR. CHICKEN]

From Panther Nation:

Actually, UNI has 23. Northern University is a HS.
And...Grant Lilly, Daren Hudak, and JP Helgens don't even have numbers given to them. Plus, Daren and JP went to Kirkwood and Hawkeye CC's...they don't even have football teams.

BUT DEY MUST BE FOOTBALL PLAYERS...WHO HAD TO WORK ON GRADES.........OR YA'LL'S COACH WOULDN'T NEED 'EM........BRAWK/OBAMA!

[paward]

It is not fair to say that Transfer work for or against. I think it is the theory of some teams and that becomes their MO. As for Richmond we do not get many if any. We may have one on the team this year but he was originally a Spider. This argument is like what came first the chicken or the egg? When all is said and done does it matter?

[Black Saturday]

Interesting article, and I especially liked this gem from the comment section...



Because Richmond, JMU, New Hampshire, and Appalachian State are loaded with FBS transfers. xlolx Of course, everyone knows that second-string players at schools like Syracuse and Pittsburgh would be all-stars on any "I-AA" roster.

Appalachian State loaded with transfers? xconfusedx

There may be 4 on the roster.

[ChickenMan]

This was posted on the UD GoHens board.. it's the best post I seen yet relative to the 'transfer' issue...



by borbie84 on Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:36 pm

I've been reading the back and forth between several Hens fans about this transfer business and now that I can officially comment, as a new hen fan, I'll add my two cents worth.

To preface -let's just say that I spent 35 years as a Head HS Football Coach in The Philadelphia Catholic League and several years coaching in the suburbs so I understand a little about how the HS recruiting game is played.

The fact is , just like all things in life, change happens constantly and football is no exception. There is an interesting statistic out there, and forgive me if I can't quote the exact whereabouts, that approx. 35% of college students seek to transfer out of their originally selected Colleges in their sophomore year. The reason I know this is that our oldest son, while a soph at Notre Dame, advised us he "wanted to transfer to Stanford". We , being quite shocked, started to research the various sources out there about the college transfer process and were quite shocked to find out that this desire to transfer is much more common than we had imagined among all college students not just athletes. Young people do change their minds and their opinions !!!

Fortunately he stayed at ND and graduated but we were forced to look at that possibility of transfer when it happened.

Now to football- In the BCS ranks, each year there are coaching changes. Some coaches quit, some retire, and in many more cases coaches are fired. When this occurs and a new staff is hired, they come in with a new agenda and new recruits. The new staff has the right ,IMHO ,to use their own ideas and RECRUITS and many times the players from the old staff are passed over for the new staff's own recruits. IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME IN BCS FOOTBALL. I have had many of my former players either benefit or be hurt by this scenario.

The NCAA has mandated that if a player desires to leave and opt for a new program and a fresh start, and he desires to transfer laterally- to another D-1A program- HE MUST SIT OUT A YEAR. The player also , in many cases, does not get scholarshiped by the new staff as he is ineligible for a full year. The only other option for the player is to move down to the FCS-1-AA so that he can get an new opportunity to play as well as a scholarship. The NCAA, by its rigid, and also IMHO-unfair sanctions against the players, has created a scenario that severely penalizes the players due to the realties of coaching hirings and firings.

Thus you have several underneath scenarios at work here. The natural tendency of a student to get restless and the athlete's tendency to get caught in a tough situation. The result is TRANSFER !!! I am not quite sure where the negative connotation comes about though. The coaches in the FCS are well aware that this occurs and each year they are continually being given leads about young men who are either caught in the coaching roundtable or just need a fresh start.

I feel very strongly that until the NCAA eliminates the concept of" sit out a year" if you transfer laterally- the transfers to the FCS schools will continue unabated and if UDEL can benefit by bringing some quality young men into their program-I fail to see the argument that that it constitutes a negative slant on the program..As has been pointed out by many of the previous posters here- many fine young men and women have come to UDEL by the transfer route and have made significant contributions to the program both academically and athletically.

[mcveyrl]

I've never had a problem with transfers:

1. It's not against the rules.
2. It's not like the transfers are uber-athletes that change the competitive balance of the sport.
3. Many transfers do not work out.
4. Many transfers are given deserved second chances and most just want to play somewhere.

[appfan2008]

i counted 7 players on ASU's current roster that have attended another university, college or jc/cc

thats it

[89Hen]

We'll see the better theory on football team construction. Furman will start exactly zero transfers against Delaware (In fact, I don't even know if we have any on the team).
It sounds like you say that as if you don't take transfers. xeyebrowx

http://images.sportsnetwork.com/football/college/1aa/payton_2005/action/4533.jpg

BTW...

71 Antonio Frazier OT 6-4 274 SO Chattanooga, Tenn./Baylor
44 Pete Sanders FB 6-0 234 SO Stone Mountain, Ga./LSU
19 Chris Stone BAN 6-1 186 SR Greenville, S.C./Clemson

These could be HS's that share names with colleges, but maybe not.

[appfan2008]

It sounds like you say that as if you don't take transfers. xeyebrowx

http://images.sportsnetwork.com/football/college/1aa/payton_2005/action/4533.jpg

BTW...

71 Antonio Frazier OT 6-4 274 SO Chattanooga, Tenn./Baylor
44 Pete Sanders FB 6-0 234 SO Stone Mountain, Ga./LSU
19 Chris Stone BAN 6-1 186 SR Greenville, S.C./Clemson

These could be HS's that share names with colleges, but maybe not.

and to help you pile on... i seem to remember a pretty good qb for you guys a few years back that has been putting on the pads with brett favre and aaron rodgers the last couple of years... pretty sure he played at florida!

[asknoquarter21]

Yea but he tripped....he blew it

I guess that goes into a didn't work out category.....haha

[appfan2008]

but it did for the opponent! xnodx

[89Hen]

and to help you pile on... i seem to remember a pretty good qb for you guys a few years back that has been putting on the pads with brett favre and aaron rodgers the last couple of years... pretty sure he played at florida!
That's who is in the picture. xthumbsupx

[BDKJMU]

I remember reading an article last season that Transfer U, I mean UMass, had 23 transfers, 16 being I-A.
http://www.masslive.com/umassfootball/republican/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1187045112293910.xml&coll=1
Now the Delaware online article says Hofstra has 21. I wonder how many are or will be starters? To me its not the # of starters you have on your team per se, but the # that are starting. I would think that a significant chunk, say more than a 1/2 doz, would cause HS recruits to take notice. If I'm a HS recruit and see that large % of the starters at school x that is recruiting me are transfers, I'm going to be less likely to go there. I wonder how many of those transfers will be starting for UMass, Hofstra and UD this season?

Last 3 seasons for JMU I looked at the roster. Sometimes the transfer school wasn't listed, so I could have slightly undercounted that as I might not have known about a few backups who were tranfers, although I think I knew about most of them. Counted transfer regular starters for JMU:
05'
Rascati, QB, Louisville
Parham, OG, VT

06' (counted 7 transfers on roster: 4 I-A, 2 CC, and a JC. Didn't count the 3 Prep school players as I believe post grad prep school doesn't count as transfers). 6 starters:
Rascati
Parham
Eugene Holloman, TB
Terrance Apted, OT, Utah
John Baronowsky, DT, CT
Rowdy Rudd, Long Snapper, Indepence, Kansas JC

07' (Counted 5 transfers: 2 I-A, 1 I-AA, 1 CC, I JC. Again, didn't count the 3 Prep school). 4 starters
Holloman
Apted
Baronowsky
Rudd

08' (Count 5 transfers: 3 I-A, 1 I-AA, 1 CC. Didn't count the 7 prep school players (5 are Fork Union). 2 starters:
Holloman
Apted

Just like toppings can compliment a salad, a team (the lettuce) some transfers (the toppings) with a few starters can be a good thing. But go too heavy on your salad toppings, that can be a bad thing. I think the same goes with tranfers.

Didn't count Matt Magerko (OG) in 05' or Abdul-Wahid (DE) 05'-08' as Magerko wrestled at UVA before transferring to JMU< and Wahid was at VCU (no football team) before tranferring to JMU

[Umass74]

I remember reading an article last season that Transfer U, I mean UMass, had 23 transfers, 16 being starters.
http://www.masslive.com/umassfootbal...910.xml&coll=1
Now the Delaware online article says Hofstra has 21. I wonder how many are or will be starters? I assume nothing close to UMass? To me its not the # of starters you have on your team per se, but the # that are starting. I would think that a significant chunk, say more than a 1/2 doz, would cause HS recruits to take notice. If I'm a HS recruit and see that a majority of starters at school X that is recruiting me are I-A transfers, I'm going to be less likely to go there. Delaware doesn't appear to be near the UMass category

No, you totally screwed that up. UMass had 16 I-A transfers and seven JUCOs.

Two I-As started on offense and three on defense. One JUCO (who had played the previous year) started on offense.

Eight of 11 players on offense and eight of eleven on defense were UMass recruits.

[elcid96]

We're gonna kick Furman's soft baby powder-caked a$$ all over South Carolina - so hard that even Citadel could beat them...

You don't have to beat them that hard, we already beat them the last time we played.xrulesx

[BDKJMU]

No, you totally screwed that up. UMass had 16 I-A transfers and seven JUCOs.

Two I-As started on offense and three on defense. One JUCO (who had played the previous year) started on offense.

Eight of 11 players on offense and eight of eleven on defense were UMass recruits.

Alright, I screwed it up. My bad- fixed it.

[Umass74]

Looking at 2008 for the Minutemen, by my count (including this year's recruits) eight JUCO's and twelve I-A and two I-AA transfers.

On defense: CB Courtney Robinson (UConn) and Jeromy Miles FS (Navy) and Josh Jennings LB (JUCO) will start. The other eight are four-year UMass recruits.

On offense: Ben Coblyn OG (Transfer from Boston University basketball) and Bob Getek OT (UConn) and Jeremy Horne WR (Boston College) will start. The other eight are four-year UMass recruits.

Brent Arnold P is a JUCO.

In recruits this year, UMass had only three DI transfers. Two I-A walk-ons (South Florida and Pittsburgh), one scholarship I-AA transfer (Delaware).

[DB_Atlantic10]

Interesting article, and I especially liked this gem from the comment section...



Because Richmond, JMU, New Hampshire, and Appalachian State are loaded with FBS transfers. xlolx Of course, everyone knows that second-string players at schools like Syracuse and Pittsburgh would be all-stars on any "I-AA" roster. BS, JMU hardly has any transfers on their roster...There's only one in the starting line-up, and OL who transfered from Utah a couple of years ago due to family reasons.... Most of our players come through the system.

[93henfan]

OK, two of you (DB_Atlantic10 and an earlier App poster) have apparently missed that FCS_pwns_FBS was being sarcastic in naming UR, JMU, UNH, and AppSt as transfer schools. He's making the point that those schools have been successful with minimal transfers as opposed to UD, UNI, and UMass who have been successful with a higher number of transfers.

The transfer issue is a moot point. Has there ever been a FCS/I-AA champion with no transfers on their roster?

[GannonFan]

You know what's interesting? You can never get a good count on how many transfers a team has. I actually disagree with the number of UD transfers in the article (it's no significantly off, but it's not the number per the posted rosters). Some schools don't list all the transfers on their rosters and some people don't consider JUCO's to be transfers (I'm not sure how they come to that rationale but ce la vie).

In the end, though, it doesn't matter. There's nothing illegal about taking transfers, and while some schools butcher the process other schools do a great job of filtering through all the transfers and have a great record of great kids. I actually find it odd, though, that some schools don't take any transfers (or virtually none) as some point of integrity, even though they do readily take non-football (non-athletic) transfers into their schools. At some point, you have to trust that your football program isn't going to be morally bankrupt.

[89Hen]

In the end, though, it doesn't matter. There's nothing illegal about taking transfers, and while some schools butcher the process other schools do a great job of filtering through all the transfers and have a great record of great kids. I actually find it odd, though, that some schools don't take any transfers (or virtually none) as some point of integrity, even though they do readily take non-football (non-athletic) transfers into their schools. At some point, you have to trust that your football program isn't going to be morally bankrupt.
xnodx There is no one formula for making a team.

[OhioHen]

And for Delaware:
(again, just going off what is listed on the website roster)
97 players listed:

15 from FBS schools
3 from other FCS schools
1 from D3
1 from JC/CC
77 from HS


So either junior colleges and such aren't as prominent out east, or Delaware just didn't list most of them on the roster.

Very few JC football programs on the East Coast.

[Chi Panther]

From Panther Nation:

Actually, UNI has 23. Northern University is a HS.
And...Grant Lilly, Daren Hudak, and JP Helgens don't even have numbers given to them. Plus, Daren and JP went to Kirkwood and Hawkeye CC's...they don't even have football teams.

NUHS (Northern University High School)......is my HS:D

[Bearvision]

Missouri St. is kind of going from one end of the spectrum, to the other extreme end. Under Randy Ball, we were known as a transfer factory, a place where any solid athlete could go to get another chance to play football, and the HS recruits were pushed aside.

Under Coach Terry Allen, he has focused his attention almost solely on HS athletes, and then redshirting the vast majority of them.

It's one school, and it's one situation with different variables (coaches, facility improvements etc), but it is my contention, that there is no one right way to do it. If you are able to find "self motivated" transfers, who are playing for the team rather than themselves, you can benefit tremendously from transfers. Too often at Missouri St, the transfer would still identify themselves with their prior school, and not with MSU, and that caused a disconnect between the differing players: Holdovers on one side, transfers on another. The transfers just didn't exude the same level of effort and pride for Missouri St that the transfers did.

Of course, before Cody Kirby, two of the most highly decorated QB's in MSU history were transfers from IA schools, so I still believe you take the special talents at need positions if they come to you.

MSU is headed in the right direction, and the primary reason, for me, is that they are recruiting higher caliber four year athletes, and relying less on the "quick" fix each year. This will build stability in the program at MSU, but it seems to work at other places because the coaching staffs are better at recognizing players that can come into their system and work right away, rather than just the highest star guy available.

Isn't that the way it should be at any school? Recognizing talent and players that fit your school, and your scheme?

[Uncle Buck]

Wow, never realized we had that many since so many of them don't pan out. Besides, looking at the roster, about 12 are JUCO kids, 2 i don't think even played in JUCO. One kid is a PA. kid who came back as a Soph from Boise St, maybe homesick.

Eh, bottom line for HU, Cohen had big holes to fill when he got here and he did what he has to. That's life. If being a transfer were wrong, they would do away with JUCO's.

[Khan4Cats]

Very few JC football programs on the East Coast.

Another factor in the Juco Route for UNI and some of the midwest schools like Western Illinois, is the lower population bases that we draw from. I'm not sure what it says for a few of the East coast schools that draw quite a few and I would argue that transfers are just a part of the game. Some schools use them to a large extent, to varying degrees of success or not.

UNI takes them, but only occasionally do late transfers (as in last 1 or 2 years of eligibility) make big impacts on the team. Last year's squad had Terrell Allen and Whitney Lewis as the #2/3 and #4 receiver and Brandon Keith starting at RT. Of the transfers on this year's team, most came after only their first year of FBS. On the current team only DJ Hord spent more than two seasons with an FBS team before transferring to UNI.

As someone else said, there is more than one way to build a football team, though most successful ones stick with a solid core of homegrown 4-year players.

[ericsaid]

How is Rob Shoencroft or whatever doing?

[aust42]

How is Rob Shoencroft or whatever doing?


He's in a heated battle for the starting QB position with Redshirt Freshman Lou Ritacco.

[mcveyrl]

He's in a heated battle for the starting QB position with Redshirt Freshman Lou Ritacco.

I would hate to be a redshirt frosh with Delaware's schedule, but he would certainly be seasoned by the end of the year.

[Maroon&White]

Looking at 2008 for the Minutemen, by my count (including this year's recruits) eight JUCO's and twelve I-A and two I-AA transfers.

On defense: CB Courtney Robinson (UConn) and Jeromy Miles FS (Navy) and Josh Jennings LB (JUCO) will start. The other eight are four-year UMass recruits.

On offense: Ben Coblyn OG (Transfer from Boston University basketball) and Bob Getek OT (UConn) and Jeremy Horne WR (Boston College) will start. The other eight are four-year UMass recruits.

Brent Arnold P is a JUCO.

In recruits this year, UMass had only three DI transfers. Two I-A walk-ons (South Florida and Pittsburgh), one scholarship I-AA transfer (Delaware).


Jeremy Horne is from Syracuse, Warren Wilson is from BC. Can't really say if either will start at this point.


I count 21 transfers on UMass' 2008 roster, though it doesn't seem like that many.

12 IA - 3 from UCon, 1 from BC, 1 Eastern Michigan, 1 Indiana/Notre Dame, 1 Navy, 1 Pitt, 1 South Florida, 1 Syracuse, 1 Toledo and 1 Virginia

7 from JC - 4 from instate Dean College

1 from Delaware and 1 from BU, but was a basketball player.

Of those, Ben Coblyn (BU) and Rob Getek (UCon) will start on the OL, Courtney Robinson (UCon) will start at corner, Jeromy Miles (Navy) will start at SS, Josh Jennings (Dean) will start at MLB, and Brett Arnold (Lackawanna JC) is the starting punter.

The rest are either fighting for a starting job (3 WRs), backups or will not play much at all.

[PaladinFan]

Did I say Furman didn't take transfers? No. We probably had the single biggest transfer in the FCS a few years ago. I DID say that THIS season Furman will put 11 guys on the field who were recruited and developed as Paladins.

If there is a Furman transfer they are generally career backups. We don't take JuCo kids because they can't cut it academically. That probably hamstrings our transfers above all else.

Believe me, if Furman loses this game no one will point to an unfair advantage.



*just edited to note that for one of those transfers listed, Baylor is a private school in Tennessee, not the college in Texas.