When will Savannah State join a conference?

[DSUrocks07]

Seriously...they're like the ugly duckling of FCS. So far I've heard about them joining the MEAC, SWAC, SLC, SoCon, Big South, etc, for at least 10 years now. What is the deal with them? Any SSU Tiger fans on here care to fill me in?

[furman94]

'm sorry, we don't want them!

[DSUrocks07]

'm sorry, we don't want them!

Why though? NCAA violations or something of that nature? Was the school built on a Indian burial site? xconfusedx

[CoastalFan2005]

I don't want them in the Big South, either.

Personally, I think they're going to stay independent for a long, long time...I'm not sure any conference would take them right now.

EDIT: as for NCAA infractions...click here (http://www2.ncaa.org/portal/media_and_events/press_room/2006/may/20060519_savannahst_infractions_rls.html).

[furman94]

Yeah, seems like too much baggage.

[mvemjsunpx]

When will Savannah State join a conference?


When a conference is stupid enough to ask them…

[G.S.Green]

The school is small, doesn't have a large football following, SMALL budget (and the program reflects it), good regional location-bad local location, and no coherent plan for fixing any of those problems. What's not to love about them joining a conference?

G.S.Green

[PaladinFan]

I'm interested to see how their new staff does this year. SSU hired several former Paladins to run the show down there. If Furman can do one thing consistently in football it is to produce good coaches.

[Tealblood]

SSU was an ill-timed move to I-AA should have stayed put for a few years until all was figured out

[Tealblood]

I hope the new coach gets a chance

they run thru coaches like crazy

[DSUrocks07]

When a conference is stupid enough to ask them…

Looks like we're A-number 1 in that department xsmhx

2008 Schedule

Aug. 30 Jacksonville University
Sept. 6 Livingstone College
Sept. 13 Winston Salem State University
Sept. 20 Bethune-Cookman University
Sept. 27 Howard University
Oct. 4 Clark-Atlanta University
Oct. 11 Charleston Southern University
Oct. 18 Mississippi Valley State Univ.
Oct. 25 OPEN
Nov. 1 Concordia College Selma
Nov. 8 Edward Waters College
Nov. 15 Webber International University
Nov. 22 North Carolina Central University

4 MEAC schools on the schedule, looks like we're the ones they're aiming for.

I'm all for expanding the MEAC to 12 teams to have a North/South alingment (and maybe we can get a true rival in the process), but if SSU is looked upon as "poison" then maybe we would want to go in a different direction. But on the other hand, their NCAA probation ends in 2009 so maybe the Tigers are starting to get their ***** together...who knows?

[TheValleyRaider]

They are an HBCU (I think), and their location seems to put them more in the MEAC footprint than the SWAC. From what I remember, the MEAC and Big South have come the closest to inviting them, but that's not really saying much

The MEAC's getting a bit unwieldy in size, it looks like, though if there's any kind of split or exodus that some members have threatened (usually in conjunction with dropping out of the playoffs), SSU might be an option to refill membership. The Big South would likely have been more interested when they only had 5 members. The recent addition of Stony Brook and Presbyterian, and the impending autobid with playoff expansion, really makes SSU seem an unlikely choice for them

Somewhere like the SLC or SoCon is way out of their league at the moment xtwocentsx

[813Jag]

Who knows where they end up, but I know it won't be in the SWAC. I don't think the SWAC needs to grow past 10 members.

[Eaglesrus]

SSU applied for membership in a conference recently, not sure but I believe it was the MEAC. I don't remember exactly the reasons cited, but the conference took the polite route and shelved that application rather than just turning it down.

[IndianaAppMan]

SSU applied for membership in a conference recently, not sure but I believe it was the MEAC. I don't remember exactly the reasons cited, but the coference took the polite route and shelved that application rather than just turning it down.

Whichever conference did that was smart. Back in the early 80's, Penn State tried to join the Big East but was turned down for some reason. Now that Penn State is in the Big Ten to stay, and believe me, they're thrilled to be in the B10, the Big East is still in regret.

So basically, even if Savannah State seems unappealing now as a new member, it's wise not to burn bridges.

[DSUrocks07]

Whichever conference did that was smart. Back in the early 80's, Penn State tried to join the Big East but was turned down for some reason. Now that Penn State is in the Big Ten to stay, and believe me, they're thrilled to be in the B10, the Big East is still in regret.

So basically, even if Savannah State seems unappealing now as a new member, it's wise not to burn bridges.

My thoughts exactly xthumbsupx

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

We at GSU want "a travel buddy" a la Chatty. Let's invite them into the SoCon. :D

[PantherRob82]

Why though? NCAA violations or something of that nature? Was the school built on a Indian burial site? xconfusedx

maybe because they are horrible?

[JetsLuvver]

I could see them being taken by the Atlantic Sun, but only if someone leaves. ETSU, Campbell, Kennesaw and Jacksonville all seem to have higher aspirations. This would still leave them without a home for football, though.

They don't have football and haven't heard any talk of possibly starting it, but Longwood is another school left out in the cold when it comes to conference affiliation.

[WileECoyote06]

Savannah State will more than likely be invited to join the MEAC after their probation ends in 2009. I believe that the southern schools clamoring for their inclusion as a travel partner is the reason NC Central currently sits without a conference home.

[MarkCCU]

What conference wants to be affiliated with them? They make VMI look like The Citadel. Seriously, saying they suck is offensive to all those that truly suck.

[DSUrocks07]

maybe because they are horrible?

the term "horrible" is based on perception, that doesnt mean that they will always be horrible...

[Sir William]

If SSU wanted to join a conference - and it's debatable that they absolutely do right at this moment (only SSU can answer that question) - then the burden is not on a conference to justify why they have not invited SSU to join; instead, the burden would be on SSU to sell a conference on why they should be admitted.

Which raises a more interesting question leading to a more intelligent conversation - what definite and measurable benefits does SSU offer right now or in the near future to any conference of which they may hypothetically desire to be a member? (And please...none of this "they may be good in the future" business - it's uncertain and unmeasureable)

[By the way, as another has already mentioned, I also look forward to seeing how they fair under their new coaching staff, and I wish SSU well.]

[appfan2008]

I dont know much about SSU other than they are the 4th D1 school in Georgia and lose all the time... dont know why you would want that... also sounds like they have violation problems... certainly no one would want that either

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

the term "horrible" is based on perception, that doesnt mean that they will always be horrible...

Granted they may not always be terrible, but I don't think it's any illusion that they are currently terrible. They have won two division I games this entire decade.

[WileECoyote06]

If SSU wanted to join a conference - and it's debatable that they absolutely do right at this moment (only SSU can answer that question) - then the burden is not on a conference to justify why they have not invited SSU to join; instead, the burden would be on SSU to sell a conference on why they should be admitted.

Which raises a more interesting question leading to a more intelligent conversation - what definite and measurable benefits does SSU offer right now or in the near future to any conference of which they may hypothetically desire to be a member? (And please...none of this "they may be good in the future" business - it's uncertain and unmeasureable)

[By the way, as another has already mentioned, I also look forward to seeing how they fair under their new coaching staff, and I wish SSU well.]

The only measurable benefits that SSU offers is baseball pedigree. Other than that, I don't see anything; it isn't in a large market, nor is it a powerhouse program in any of the revenue sports.

[bobbythekidd]

They have potential. Coach Wells has a decent resume and a Furman Alum. He picked up a really good high school QB, DePhilip or something like that. He could have that teams competing in a couple of seasons. The new admin have started to focus on making the move to FCS work.

They might be atrractice to someone looking to get in on the ground floor, but that is a stretch. Maybe in a few years that will be different.

[WileECoyote06]

They have potential. Coach Wells has a decent resume and a Furman Alum. He picked up a really good high school QB, DePhilip or something like that. He could have that teams competing in a couple of seasons. The new admin have started to focus on making the move to FCS work.

They might be atrractice to someone looking to get in on the ground floor, but that is a stretch. Maybe in a few years that will be different.

It's going to take more than a two million dollar a year athletic budget. Until they get that up to at least 5 to 6 mill if not more, they should consider moving back to DII. Technically, that's low for DII as well.

[Eaglesrus]

The only measurable benefits that SSU offers is baseball pedigree. Other than that, I don't see anything; it isn't in a large market, nor is it a powerhouse program in any of the revenue sports.

Yeah, there was an article in the local paper the other day in which SSU's AD was quoted about his plan to form a true partnership with the community. he seemed to be saying he that envisions SSU being to Savannah what App State is to Boone or GSU is to Statesboro. I say good luck, but I personally think the chance of that happening is non-existant.

[dbackjon]

Yeah, there was an article in the local paper the other day in which SSU's AD was quoted about his plan to form a true partnership with the community. he seemed to be saying he that envisions SSU being to Savannah what App State is to Boone or GSU is to Statesboro. I say good luck, but I personally think the chance of that happening is non-existant.

And why is that? Because SSU is an HBCU??

[Eaglesrus]

And why is that? Because SSU is an HBCU??

Yeah, I can see where someone could jump to that conclusion, but actually it's because of too much established competition. UGA rules in this town; even our fairly successful program that is 50 miles up the road can't really compete, and I feel relatively sure that there are more of our graduates here than there are SSU alums. I look out of my office window and see the UGA flag flying over The Lady (Paula Dean) and Sons restaurant. Then we have a fair number of fans of GA Tech, FL, etc., and as I see it there's just no way it's going to happen.

[Tealblood]

Not Your Mama's Banana Pudding may be the greatest thing ever

[appfan2008]

Granted they may not always be terrible, but I don't think it's any illusion that they are currently terrible. They have won two division I games this entire decade.

are you serious!?!?! 2 wins this decade?

that is worse than the other team i follow... duke

[dbackjon]

Yeah, I can see where someone could jump to that conclusion, but actually it's because of too much established competition. UGA rules in this town; even our fairly successful program that is 50 miles up the road can't really compete, and I feel relatively sure that there are more of our graduates here than there are SSU alums. I look out of my office window and see the UGA flag flying over The Lady (Paula Dean) and Sons restaurant. Then we have a fair number of fans of GA Tech, FL, etc., and as I see it there's just no way it's going to happen.

The Big State school is a problem that most of us (outside of the Dakotas, Montana and Delaware) face. Same problem in Flagstaff, but many in the community do recognize what an asset a local university can be, and support it. SSU, GSU, NAU etc will never replace entirely the UGAs of the world, but embracing the local university, and making it SAVANNAH's, not just an HBCU, could be very benefical for the city and the school. Tennessee State had a chance to become Nashville's public university, but were too intent on retaining the HBCU identity, even after merging with UT-Nashville, that most in Nashville still view TSU as a Black college, and MTSU 30 miles away as the local college to go to. (not that they support MTSU athletically).

[Eaglesrus]

The Big State school is a problem that most of us (outside of the Dakotas, Montana and Delaware) face. Same problem in Flagstaff, but many in the community do recognize what an asset a local university can be, and support it. SSU, GSU, NAU etc will never replace entirely the UGAs of the world, but embracing the local university, and making it SAVANNAH's, not just an HBCU, could be very benefical for the city and the school. Tennessee State had a chance to become Nashville's public university, but were too intent on retaining the HBCU identity, even after merging with UT-Nashville, that most in Nashville still view TSU as a Black college, and MTSU 30 miles away as the local college to go to. (not that they support MTSU athletically).

Never really thought of it from that aspect, but now that you mention it I think that would be a problem with SSU here, too. We actually have another four year state school here in Savannah, Armstrong Atlantic State University by name, and it is actually bigger than SSU (but doesn't have a football team). There have been talks of mergers between the two on several ocassions, and SSU needing to maintain it's identity has always come up as one of the stumbling blocks to that happening.

[WileECoyote06]

The Big State school is a problem that most of us (outside of the Dakotas, Montana and Delaware) face. Same problem in Flagstaff, but many in the community do recognize what an asset a local university can be, and support it. SSU, GSU, NAU etc will never replace entirely the UGAs of the world, but embracing the local university, and making it SAVANNAH's, not just an HBCU, could be very benefical for the city and the school. Tennessee State had a chance to become Nashville's public university, but were too intent on retaining the HBCU identity, even after merging with UT-Nashville, that most in Nashville still view TSU as a Black college, and MTSU 30 miles away as the local college to go to. (not that they support MTSU athletically).

And what's wrong with that? If the people WANT to embrace the university, they should do it because it is Nashville's state university. It's like asking the school to reject its past; but perhaps the city should embrace their legacy and support the Blue Tigers anyway.

BTW, if yall think Savannah has it bad, imagine being in the shadow of Duke, UNC, and NC State. Our main benefit is that people come to school in Durham and decide to live in the Triangle.

I like

[DSUrocks07]

Never really thought of it from that aspect, but now that you mention it I think that would be a problem with SSU here, too. We actually have another four year state school here in Savannah, Armstrong Atlantic State University by name, and it is actually bigger than SSU (but doesn't have a football team). There have been talks of mergers between the two on several ocassions, and SSU needing to maintain it's identity has always come up as one of the stumbling blocks to that happening.

this seems like a topic for political wing...xthumbsupx

Status of HBCUs in the 21st Century (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45698)

[DSUrocks07]

If SSU wanted to join a conference - and it's debatable that they absolutely do right at this moment (only SSU can answer that question) - then the burden is not on a conference to justify why they have not invited SSU to join; instead, the burden would be on SSU to sell a conference on why they should be admitted.

Which raises a more interesting question leading to a more intelligent conversation - what definite and measurable benefits does SSU offer right now or in the near future to any conference of which they may hypothetically desire to be a member? (And please...none of this "they may be good in the future" business - it's uncertain and unmeasureable)

[By the way, as another has already mentioned, I also look forward to seeing how they fair under their new coaching staff, and I wish SSU well.]

Well one thing they offer...to the MEAC at least...at the moment is a filler school to expand the conference. If they were to join...along with NC Central and WSSU...we would have a 12 team football conference, leading to a North/South split and would have SSU with regional members FAMU, BCC, SCSt, WSSU, and NC Central (The North being Hampton, Howard, NSU, NCA&T, Morgan, and DSU). And conference affiliation would help generate rivalries within the MEAC, getting their fan base and Alumni organized and excited about their sports and athletic programs...being a D-I independent is like being in "No-Mans" land. And that baseball pedigree would surely be welcomed here as well.

[dbackjon]

Never really thought of it from that aspect, but now that you mention it I think that would be a problem with SSU here, too. We actually have another four year state school here in Savannah, Armstrong Atlantic State University by name, and it is actually bigger than SSU (but doesn't have a football team). There have been talks of mergers between the two on several ocassions, and SSU needing to maintain it's identity has always come up as one of the stumbling blocks to that happening.\


It has always struck me as an incredible waste of tax resources to maintain two schools in close proximity to each other, like what occurs across the South.

[dbackjon]

And what's wrong with that? If the people WANT to embrace the university, they should do it because it is Nashville's state university. It's like asking the school to reject its past; but perhaps the city should embrace their legacy and support the Blue Tigers anyway.




No one is asking them to reject their past, but to embrace a future that celebrates the past, while building a color-blind future. When UT-Davidson was merged into TSU, that is what was supposed to happen, but never did.

[Sir William]

Well one thing they offer...to the MEAC at least...at the moment is a filler school to expand the conference.

I seriously doubt that this is enough of a selling point. The MEAC has added (and wisely, I believe) two very good athletic programs in WSSU and NCCU, both of which are head and shoulders (and then some!) above SSU.

Does the MEAC really want to expand with the likes of SSU at this particular time? In all honesty, SSU's best bet would be the Big South if their selling point is that they help a conference with expansion issues; and even then, I'm not convinced the Big South would be buying, as far as SSU goes.

Plain truth is that SSU needs to make genuine and steadfast commitments to its overall athletic success. The proof of such commitments could potentially manifest itself 3-4 years after such commitments are made, though there are no guarantees. Then and only then will SSU be in a sellable position.

Honestly, they should have never left the SIAC in D2. Nonetheless, I'll be pulling hard for the new football staff to breathe life and gameday success into the program at SSU. Good luck to the Tigers.

[GAD]

The Big State school is a problem that most of us (outside of the Dakotas, Montana and Delaware) face. Same problem in Flagstaff, but many in the community do recognize what an asset a local university can be, and support it. SSU, GSU, NAU etc will never replace entirely the UGAs of the world, but embracing the local university, and making it SAVANNAH's, not just an HBCU, could be very benefical for the city and the school. Tennessee State had a chance to become Nashville's public university, but were too intent on retaining the HBCU identity, even after merging with UT-Nashville, that most in Nashville still view TSU as a Black college, and MTSU 30 miles away as the local college to go to. (not that they support MTSU athletically).
Big state schools are not always a problem for HBCUs, Southern and FAMU are in cities with major BCS FBS programs but both do well with attendance. LSU is only about 10-15 minutes away from Southern and last season both had there largest home crowd on the same night.

Tenn St. would probably draw better if they were in the SWAC or MEAC or if they were an independent and played teams from both plus the OVC, I've heard that after the first four games on there schedule half there fan base will vanish.

SSU just needs to start winning, the rest will take care of itself

[GeauxLions94]

Seriously...they're like the ugly duckling of FCS. So far I've heard about them joining the MEAC, SWAC, SLC, SoCon, Big South, etc, for at least 10 years now. What is the deal with them? Any SSU Tiger fans on here care to fill me in?

SSU will join a conference when ...

http://www.roberthkeller.com/images/content/pigs_flying.jpg


Big state schools are not always a problem for HBCUs, Southern and FAMU are in cities with major BCS FBS programs but both do well with attendance. LSU is only about 10-15 minutes away from Southern and last season both had there largest home crowd on the same night.

Tenn St. would probably draw better if they were in the SWAC or MEAC or if they were an independent and played teams from both plus the OVC, I've heard that after the first four games on there schedule half there fan base will vanish.

SSU just needs to start winning, the rest will take care of itself

Seriously, hate to see schools get the bad rap. Hopefully, the administration can get the program on track and into a conference (best bet the MEAC) in the near future.

[813Jag]

Big state schools are not always a problem for HBCUs, Southern and FAMU are in cities with major BCS FBS programs but both do well with attendance. LSU is only about 10-15 minutes away from Southern and last season both had there largest home crowd on the same night.

Tenn St. would probably draw better if they were in the SWAC or MEAC or if they were an independent and played teams from both plus the OVC, I've heard that after the first four games on there schedule half there fan base will vanish.

SSU just needs to start winning, the rest will take care of itself
I agree with this post. If you have a steady fan base you will draw regardless.

[DSUrocks07]

Here's something I stumbled across:


O'Neal also led SSU's attempt to join a Division I conference by submitting a $10,000 non-refundable application fee to the Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference in May 2005. MEAC Commissioner Dennis Thomas said the conference will reconsider SSU's application after the school's NCAA probation ends May 18, 2009.


(http://meacswacsports.blogspot.com/2007/10/ssu-ad-oneal-resigns.html)

So apparently its the NCAA probations that are holding things up for them.

[dbackjon]

Big state schools are not always a problem for HBCUs, Southern and FAMU are in cities with major BCS FBS programs but both do well with attendance. LSU is only about 10-15 minutes away from Southern and last season both had there largest home crowd on the same night.

Tenn St. would probably draw better if they were in the SWAC or MEAC or if they were an independent and played teams from both plus the OVC, I've heard that after the first four games on there schedule half there fan base will vanish.

SSU just needs to start winning, the rest will take care of itself

How many of the HBCU's would fall in this category? Southern, Grambling, Jackson State, FAMU?? Maybe SCSU as well?

[FiniteMan]

Which raises a more interesting question leading to a more intelligent conversation - what definite and measurable benefits does SSU offer right now or in the near future to any conference of which they may hypothetically desire to be a member? (And please...none of this "they may be good in the future" business - it's uncertain and unmeasureable)

There is only one thing, but it is a doozy. They are a core member of D1. A number of conferences are just barely over the minimum number of members to retain their basketball bid. (7/6/5 rule) If a conference fell below that and was close by that might get them in.


[By the way, as another has already mentioned, I also look forward to seeing how they fair under their new coaching staff, and I wish SSU well.]


I am a big fan of the underdog. I wish them success too.

[terrierbob]

Their students and alumni deserve better.

[WileECoyote06]

No one is asking them to reject their past, but to embrace a future that celebrates the past, while building a color-blind future. When UT-Davidson was merged into TSU, that is what was supposed to happen, but never did.
I don't think you want to get into a sociological debate.

Your example just proves that the hunky-dory/color-blind future that everyone wants may not be feasible. And it's not about racism, it's about campus culture, and to a lesser extent tradition.

[WileECoyote06]

How many of the HBCU's would fall in this category? Southern, Grambling, Jackson State, FAMU?? Maybe SCSU as well?

NC A & T - UNC-G
FAMU - FSU
Savannah State - Armstrong Atlantic State
Ft. Valley State - Macon State
Fayetteville State - UNC Pembroke
Norfolk State - Old Dominion
Texas Southern - University of Houston
Morgan State/Coppin State/Bowie State - Towson State/University of Baltimore/UMBC/UM-College Park
U of Maryland Eastern Shore - Salisbury State
NCCU - UNC-Chapel Hill

[BBB]

Whichever conference did that was smart. Back in the early 80's, Penn State tried to join the Big East but was turned down for some reason. Now that Penn State is in the Big Ten to stay, and believe me, they're thrilled to be in the B10, the Big East is still in regret.

So basically, even if Savannah State seems unappealing now as a new member, it's wise not to burn bridges.

Kinda off-topic BUT, the Big East should've forced Notre Dame's hand in making them move.xrolleyesx