Will Big South ever stabilize?

[IndianaAppMan]

Isn't it interesting how the Big South is viewed as a stepping stone to the SoCon or CAA?

For example, when Elon switched from the Big South to the SoCon after only 3 or 4 years in 1-AA, they printed shirts that said, "Movin' on Up" for their fans.

With the conference having an autobid starting in 2010, why are fans from CCU, Liberty, & Presbyterian talking about moves to the SoCon or CAA? Why do SoCon fans assume that the conference could pluck any team they choose from the Big South?

[CoastalFan2005]

Isn't it interesting how the Big South is viewed as a stepping stone to the SoCon or CAA?

For example, when Elon switched from the Big South to the SoCon after only 3 or 4 years in 1-AA, they printed shirts that said, "Movin' on Up" for their fans.

With the conference having an autobid starting in 2010, why are fans from CCU, Liberty, & Presbyterian talking about moves to the SoCon or CAA? Why do SoCon fans assume that the conference could pluck any team they choose from the Big South?

You do know that the Big South Conference has only sponsored football since 2002, right? We haven't even had 10 years of football yet...how about wait four more years before asking questions about whether or not we'll "stabilize." We're still young - we're getting there. xpeacex xtwocentsx

[TonkaBison]

Isn't it interesting how the Big South is viewed as a stepping stone to the SoCon or CAA?

For example, when Elon switched from the Big South to the SoCon after only 3 or 4 years in 1-AA, they printed shirts that said, "Movin' on Up" for their fans.

With the conference having an autobid starting in 2010, why are fans from CCU, Liberty, & Presbyterian talking about moves to the SoCon or CAA? Why do SoCon fans assume that the conference could pluck any team they choose from the Big South?

It's simple you just have to have teams move deep into the playoffs to legitimize the conference. The autobid will help a lot the Great West suffers for the lack of it which is why NDSU and SDSU went to the Gateway now the MVFC. Get the autobid and get a team into the Semi's and you will find the conference stabilizing.

[rokamortis]

Will Big South ever stabilize?

It is in the process.


Isn't it interesting how the Big South is viewed as a stepping stone to the SoCon or CAA?

Not really - the Big South is a young conference and the others have more history and tradition.


With the conference having an autobid starting in 2010, why are fans from CCU, Liberty, & Presbyterian talking about moves to the SoCon or CAA? Why do SoCon fans assume that the conference could pluck any team they choose from the Big South?

Is there a lot of talk? I haven't seen many CCU posters clamoring to get into the SoCon after we were passed over for Samford. I for one think the autobid is exactly what the conference needs to stabilize. Besides playing better in-conference competition in football and having a tougher shot to get into the playoffs, I don't see the upside with going to the SoCon at the present time.

[Seawolf97]

I for one hope we stay in the Big South beyond our four year agreement. I think once the auto bid becomes a reality the competition in the conference will get even tighter. Who knows maybe we will see another team join by 2011.

[jcmanson]

Nobody at LU is talking about wanting to move to the CAA or SOCON that I know of.

[SuperJon]

That's exactly what I was thinking.

[Tealblood]

from my standpoint it is about ticket sales

the people here do not know who these teams are--Charleston Southern, Gardner Webb, Liberty

and in other sports you throw in UNC-Asheville, High Point, Radford

our best attended games ever were against teams people had heard of Furman, Ga Southern, and even VMI--these are known quantities

[gophoenix]

Is there a lot of talk? I haven't seen many CCU posters clamoring to get into the SoCon after we were passed over for Samford. I for one think the autobid is exactly what the conference needs to stabilize. Besides playing better in-conference competition in football and having a tougher shot to get into the playoffs, I don't see the upside with going to the SoCon at the present time.

Coastal wasn't passed over, it was put on hold. Liberty is talking FBS. And really, outside of Liberty and Winthrop, the Big South is still a conference of school that act like D-I startups.

So, not only does the Big South have an image problem, they also have a membership problem.

Personally, I am not one of those bigger is better types of people, so attendance isn't important to me. But, outside of specific teams in specific sports, the SoCon is hands down better. If you look at Coastal, Liberty and even Winthrop, you can tell that don't belong in this conference.

[SuperJon]

from my standpoint it is about ticket sales

the people here do not know who these teams are--Charleston Southern, Gardner Webb, Liberty

and in other sports you throw in UNC-Asheville, High Point, Radford

our best attended games ever were against teams people had heard of Furman, Ga Southern, and even VMI--these are known quantities

Funny. We pulled in 14,000 for a DII school last year.

It's about your students, alumni, and locals caring even more than it is about the team your playing. Give them a reason to care, a reason to come to the game, an environment and then you get people to come out no matter who you're playing. The Coastal students are apathetic for the most part and the town really doesn't care. Until you change that, it doesn't really matter who you play.

[bodoyle]

Funny. We pulled in 14,000 for a DII school last year.

It's about your students, alumni, and locals caring even more than it is about the team your playing. Give them a reason to care, a reason to come to the game, an environment and then you get people to come out no matter who you're playing. The Coastal students are apathetic for the most part and the town really doesn't care. Until you change that, it doesn't really matter who you play.

CCU doesn't have an issue with filling the stadium:

2007 - 102.65% filled 12th in the country
2006 - 111.24% #4
2005 - 114.34% - #1 in the FBS that year
2004 - 96.98% #4
2003 - 103.86% #3

[SuperJon]

Then you just completely negated the point of the first guy. It's not about who you play. If you're selling out with Big South schools then there's nothing to complain about ticket wise.

[bodoyle]

Then you just completely negated the point of the first guy. It's not about who you play. If you're selling out with Big South schools then there's nothing to complain about ticket wise.

I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was just making a statement. I think tealblood was wrong on this one.

[PaladinFan]

They'll be fine. The SoCon and CAA have been in operation for a very long time.

[ElonPride]

For example, when Elon switched from the Big South to the SoCon after only 3 or 4 years in 1-AA, they printed shirts that said, "Movin' on Up" for their fans.


They did? I don't remember that.......

Who are the "they" that printed these shirts?xeyebrowx

[IndianaAppMan]

They did? I don't remember that.......

Who are the "they" that printed these shirts?xeyebrowx

the shirts came out in the fall of '02 or '03, whichever was Elon's first season in the SoCon. My wife (Elon alum) still has the shirt. I don't know which organization at Elon designed them, but I assume they were sold at the bookstore and/or football games. It has a picture of football helmets for every SoCon school at the time, including, yes, College of Charleston, Davidson, and UNCG. xoopsx

[Hoseinexile07]

No one's going anywhere in the Big South, or rather from the Big South. As for "PC fans talking about a move," this means nothing. A lot of our traditional rivals are Furman, Wofford, the Citadel, Elon, Western, and even App State [whom we lead in the all-time series xwhistlex]. It also happens that they're in the Southern Conference. When the D-I move was announced, PC fans heard rumors that we'd be joining the SoCon, and a lot of people got excited that we'd be on track to renew these rivalries, as we'd been in D-II for nearly 20 years. We applied to the SoCon and were turned down [I'd heard the reason was because we had no experience in D-I], and from a prestige standpoint, I understand the decision.

If we make the jump to the Southern Conference, it'll be a long time down the road, after every football team has increased its own prestige. But the youth of the Big South is kinda interesting, as over the next decade or so, CCU's and LU's current success and the addition of Gardner Webb, Presbyterian, and [possibly Stony Brook], amongst potential others, will help the conference come into its own.

[IndianaAppMan]

App State [whom we lead in the all-time series xwhistlex].

minor detail: ASU-PC this year will be the first matchup in 39 years. I think both programs may have changed a bit since then.

[IndianaAppMan]

I think most of my initial questions have been answered by fans of Big South fans. I still want to hear the answer to this one:


Why do SoCon fans assume that the conference could pluck any team they choose from the Big South?

[rokamortis]

The Coastal students are apathetic for the most part and the town really doesn't care.

I think you are wrong on both counts.

[CSUBUCDAD]

Gameday at Coastal is full of students. There were so many of them they had to bring them to the visitors side for overflow when we played them in 2006. I say give the Big South another 5 years and you will see some pretty dominate teams year in and year out emerge. Coastal and Lberty are the two closest to busting out and if CSU can keep Mills around long enough to finish what he has started here there could be 3 or 4 teams clawing for a playoff spot every year.

[IndianaAppMan]

Maybe what the Big South needs is just a full slate. For that year or two when the Big East only had 6 teams (and thus only 5 conference games), it seemed less legitimate. If/when the Big South has 8 or 9 members who stick together for 5+ years, I bet playoff success will coincide.

[SuperJon]

I think you are wrong on both counts.

You had to change all of your home games to 7pm games because the students wouldn't show up for 12:30 games.

[rokamortis]

You had to change all of your home games to 7pm games because the students wouldn't show up for 12:30 games.

Is that a fact? I was told it was becuase the fans were getting roasted by the sun.

[Hoseinexile07]

minor detail: ASU-PC this year will be the first matchup in 39 years. I think both programs may have changed a bit since then.

That's why I included the xwhistlex

[CoastalFan2005]

You had to change all of your home games to 7pm games because the students wouldn't show up for 12:30 games.

As Rok already said, I believe that change had more to do with the heat at 12:30 in the afternoon than it did with people not showing up to games because it was "too early."

[bodoyle]

Is that a fact? I was told it was becuase the fans were getting roasted by the sun.

When I was a Sr. (first year for football) we asked CDB when we were camping out for tickets why the games were at night and he said b/c of the heat during the daytime.

[MarkCCU]

I for one hope we stay in the Big South beyond our four year agreement. I think once the auto bid becomes a reality the competition in the conference will get even tighter. Who knows maybe we will see another team join by 2011.

For the life of me, I have no idea what a NY team is doing in the South. But I look forward to our two teams meeting.

The Big South will "stabalize" in terms of football, like Rok said, we're young. But, in terms of respect and competition, the SoCon is where many schools want to go for the obvious reasons, so perhaps that is why the Big South appears to be a stepping stone. I think with the introduction of football at CCU, the Big South has really grown in the amount of talent that it acquires and the amount of respect it earns. We may not win all the games but CSU, Liberty, CCU, we work our assess off and give 100% every Saturday.

[SuperJon]

When I was a Sr. (first year for football) we asked CDB when we were camping out for tickets why the games were at night and he said b/c of the heat during the daytime.

In November it's not that hot. Late October as well. That's what I was talking about. It may not be the entire reason, but part of the reason was the students wouldn't come out at 12:30. They'd rather go to the beach and they didn't have enough time to drink before the game.

[MarkCCU]

Gameday at Coastal is full of students. There were so many of them they had to bring them to the visitors side for overflow when we played them in 2006. I say give the Big South another 5 years and you will see some pretty dominate teams year in and year out emerge. Coastal and Lberty are the two closest to busting out and if CSU can keep Mills around long enough to finish what he has started here there could be 3 or 4 teams clawing for a playoff spot every year.

CCU has such a devoted fanbase that i'd be surprised to ever see the stands less than 75% full. Same goes for CSU. Although CSU has had 1 winning season, the fanbase is diehard but the athletics has to, HAS TO bring in some better wins to bring in the better athletes in the future. Playing Hawaii and both Miami's is purely financial, nothing athletic about it, IMO(at this point in time). CCU @ PennState is both, as well as AppState @ LSU, etc....

[MarkCCU]

When I was a Sr. (first year for football) we asked CDB when we were camping out for tickets why the games were at night and he said b/c of the heat during the daytime.


In November it's not that hot. Late October as well. That's what I was talking about. It may not be the entire reason, but part of the reason was the students wouldn't come out at 12:30. They'd rather go to the beach and they didn't have enough time to drink before the game.


The first year of football was my sophmore year, the heat is a cop out. Night Games are more exciting. But, have you ever been to homecoming or to CSU? Middle of the day and JAM PACKED WITH STUDENTS! Time of day is a cop out.

[catdaddy2402]

No, the Big South isn't ever going to stabilize. No conference, except the Ivy League, has ever really "stabilized" as there is a constant change going on. Teams join up, others move on. That's the way things are in college athletics.

The Southern Conference is a prime example of the evolutionary nature of conferences with the amount of changes it has undergone since 1922.

[bodoyle]

In November it's not that hot. Late October as well. That's what I was talking about. It may not be the entire reason, but part of the reason was the students wouldn't come out at 12:30. They'd rather go to the beach and they didn't have enough time to drink before the game.

You're right, in November and late Oct it isn't that bad out there (to you southerners), but in August and September it is hot as hell out there, plus they're in pads, we have dark colors etc.

Hell, I liked the evening games because I could watch College GameDay when I woke up, Notre Dame in the afternoon, and the beginning of the late afternoon games. By the time we get home, take a quick shower, go to Broadway, grab dinner, and go to the bars/clubs.

I don't even drink and I know there is always time to drink before games. I remember the few afternoon games that there were when I was a student, and my friends always had plenty of time to drink. xnodx xlolx

[bodoyle]

The first year of football was my sophmore year, the heat is a cop out. Night Games are more exciting. But, have you ever been to homecoming or to CSU? Middle of the day and JAM PACKED WITH STUDENTS! Time of day is a cop out.

I don't think the heat of the day was a cop-out. It is damn toasty out there during the day. You're also right that it never stopped the students from coming out. I think the crowd was a little quieter at the start of the afternoon games compared to the evening ones.

Homecoming is always, or almost always, an afternoon game b/c a lot of parents come down that weekend - atleast that's how it was when I was at CCU.

[SuperJon]

When I said changed the games from day to night, I meant the late-season ones. Coastal used to do 7pm starts through mid-October, then starting mid-October or Homecoming, they would do day games. They stopped doing that last year because games other than homecoming/CSU no one came to. The Liberty game in 06 was empty compared to most of the games I had been to there.

[bodoyle]

When I said changed the games from day to night, I meant the late-season ones. Coastal used to do 7pm starts through mid-October, then starting mid-October or Homecoming, they would do day games. They stopped doing that last year because games other than homecoming/CSU no one came to. The Liberty game in 06 was empty compared to most of the games I had been to there.

Attn: 6,964

Normally, I wouldn't be opposed to changing the game time later in the year, but the atmosphere during night games is great. I dont see why they would mess with something that is working?

[rokamortis]

When I said changed the games from day to night, I meant the late-season ones. Coastal used to do 7pm starts through mid-October, then starting mid-October or Homecoming, they would do day games. They stopped doing that last year because games other than homecoming/CSU no one came to. The Liberty game in 06 was empty compared to most of the games I had been to there.

The way the stadium is setup, the sun is directly in the face of the home fans. Even though the temp may be fine, the sun is literally in your face. So unless it is overcast it is extremely hot and uncomfortable.

[bodoyle]

The way the stadium is setup, the sun is directly in the face of the home fans. Even though the temp may be fine, the sun is literally in your face. So unless it is overcast it is extremely hot and uncomfortable.

That's why it was key to sit in the front row of the student section and then by the late 3rd or 4th quarter the sun might be behind the visitors stands.

[catdaddy2402]

I guess LSU fans doesn't truly care because they draw better for night games than afternoon games too.

xrolleyesx

[IndianaAppMan]

The way the stadium is setup, the sun is directly in the face of the home fans. Even though the temp may be fine, the sun is literally in your face. So unless it is overcast it is extremely hot and uncomfortable.

there's the opposite problem at App State games. Later into the afternoon, the sun starts setting behind the west stands. Late in the fall, the lack of sun can make for 10 to 15 degrees colder than the east stands. It's really bad if you show up in short sleeves.

[SuperJon]

The way the stadium is setup, the sun is directly in the face of the home fans. Even though the temp may be fine, the sun is literally in your face. So unless it is overcast it is extremely hot and uncomfortable.

I thought that only happened during 3:30 games. It happened the one time against Gardner-Webb in 05 and CDB said he'd never do another 3:30 game. The 12:30 games end two hours before the sun sets.

[rokamortis]

I thought that only happened during 3:30 games. It happened the one time against Gardner-Webb in 05 and CDB said he'd never do another 3:30 game. The 12:30 games end two hours before the sun sets.

That's just when it is at its worst.

[bodoyle]

I don't see the point in having ANY afternoon games at home.

[Thumper250]

How in the heck can you say a league is unstable when they've lost one member ever (a second or third place Elon team in 2002) for football and have added plenty since the league started sponsoring the sport?

Fact is, the league is growing nicely and at a comfortable pace. Some of the teams' fans can gripe and wish the SoCon would come calling, but it's not happening in the next 10-15 years, as that league is capped out and isn't changing or expanding anytime soon (expansion splits the money pie further, and the presidents in any league aren't going to be fired up about that unless they really need it).

And as far as Coastal fans not knowing or hearing of G-W, Charleston Southern and/or Liberty, that's generally false or an excuse - unless your fan base hides under rocks. The league has a grouping of schools now that fit together very well, and generally get along very well, like it or not (Charleston Southern and CCU's relationship might need a disclaimer). As far as hoops go, CCU's problem with ticket sales comes from an outdated facility and general lack of success or interest in the sport within your state.

And, as successful as CCU has been in athletics since Warren Koegel took over as A.D., I could poll 10,000 folks in Charlotte who don't have any idea where Coastal Carolina is, or what state it's in for that matter. Let's not get too big for our britches.

Coastal has developed into a very strong athletics program, and is one that other schools should look up to. To relate your ticket sales to Furman and other SoCon home games as those schools being more recognized sells your own program short. It's relates to those programs' success, perhaps, not their name recognition. It has more to do with CCU's success.

From G-W's standpoint, the benchmark program here currently is men's hoops. The Big South is a much better fit than the A-Sun from that standpoint and as an alum I'm glad I can go to some road games close to home now (and hopefully tackle Winthrop ... would be fun.). Football's coming along, but it's taking a little longer to get that boat to full speed.

They'll be competitive in football, but it might be five years before they can get in the ring with the upper half SoCon teams and not get pounded. The lower half teams, they handle them normally, at least beat the ones who will play them.

The school is growing very consistently under the leadership of a strong president, and athletics is slowly catching up in terms of funding and facilities, which is exciting.

Regardless, the Big South Conference isn't unstable. It's on very solid footing at present, and for the near future.

[SoccerSmells]

xbowx

[SoccerSmells]

Agreed. Big South is just fine. Adding the Gardner Webbers and the Blue Sox made a lot of sense geographically. Generally nice people who I meet from those schools.

[SuperJon]

And, as successful as CCU has been in athletics since Warren Koegel took over as A.D., I could poll 10,000 folks in Charlotte who don't have any idea where Coastal Carolina is, or what state it's in for that matter. Let's not get too big for our britches.

This could be said about every school in the Big South not named High Point or Asheville. I went to Coastal, and I'm from NC, and half the people I told thought it was in Wilmington, or better yet, Jacksonville.

[Seawolf97]

Wait till we show up this fall. Stoney Who ?xlolx

[CSU Girl]

CCU has such a devoted fanbase that i'd be surprised to ever see the stands less than 75% full. Same goes for CSU. Although CSU has had 1 winning season, the fanbase is diehard but the athletics has to, HAS TO bring in some better wins to bring in the better athletes in the future. Playing Hawaii and both Miami's is purely financial, nothing athletic about it, IMO(at this point in time). CCU @ PennState is both, as well as AppState @ LSU, etc....

While I agree that CSU, Liberty and CCU are the hardest working teams in the Big South, CSU playing Hawaii, Miami, and FL is not purely financial. Yes finances play a large role to help CSU get better facilities which we all agree they need; the other reasons 1) helps with recruiting, and 2 and probly the most important is that Coach Mills believes that one of the ways to improve yourself is to play someone better than you, that way you rise to their skill level. Those are the reasons you will see D1 schools on our schedules for the next few years that Coach Mills is at CSU.

From what I hear this season is going to be a great one.

[SuperJon]

While I agree that CSU, Liberty and CCU are the hardest working teams in the Big South,

How can you say CSU is working harder than VMI, PC, or G-W? I'm seriously asking that question. You haven't spent the money that VMI has that's for sure. What justification do you have for putting yourself in the same category as Liberty and Coastal?

[MarkCCU]

While I agree that CSU, Liberty and CCU are the hardest working teams in the Big South, CSU playing Hawaii, Miami, and FL is not purely financial. Yes finances play a large role to help CSU get better facilities which we all agree they need; the other reasons 1) helps with recruiting, and 2 and probly the most important is that Coach Mills believes that one of the ways to improve yourself is to play someone better than you, that way you rise to their skill level. Those are the reasons you will see D1 schools on our schedules for the next few years that Coach Mills is at CSU.

From what I hear this season is going to be a great one.

How can you agree with something I didn't say? xconfusedx There wasn't anything athletic about taking a team to a slaughter. It was MONEY!!!!!

[BJuice]

Those are the reasons you will see D1 schools on our schedules for the next few years that Coach Mills is at CSU. From what I hear this season is going to be a great one.

Next few years? I hope you are not serious about that. I hope he is there for a lot longer than a few more years. Based on what he has done so far and the potential he has to build a solid program. He needs to stay longer than just a few years. CSU needs to make sure he stays more than a few years.

[BJuice]

What justification do you have for putting yourself in the same category as Liberty and Coastal?

Uh oh, CSU Girl. You've ruffled the elitest feathers of the Liberty and Caoastal crowds. You see, nobody is worthy of being put in the same category as Liberty and Coastal.

Now, on to the subject at hand. Hard working is a relative term. Each school is different. Coastal is a public school. Liberty and Charleston Southern are private, christian schools. Liberty has a much larger student population and a much larger alumni base to draw from.

VMI spent a lot of money. Coastal spent a lot of money and is going to spend more since they just gained approval for their field house at the football stadium. What is a lot to one school might not be much to another. My point is that it is all relative.

CSU Girl, I do agree that Coach Mills and the football staff are working hard to build a successful program as are some of the other athletic programs at CSU. I commend all of them for what they are doing. Things are moving in the right direction at Charleston Southern. Finally!!!

[CSU Girl]

Next few years? I hope you are not serious about that. I hope he is there for a lot longer than a few more years. Based on what he has done so far and the potential he has to build a solid program. He needs to stay longer than just a few years. CSU needs to make sure he stays more than a few years.

I meant the next few years he has D1 teams lined up. Dont worry he will be there for a long time.

[CSU Girl]

For the life of me, I have no idea what a NY team is doing in the South. But I look forward to our two teams meeting.

The Big South will "stabalize" in terms of football, like Rok said, we're young. But, in terms of respect and competition, the SoCon is where many schools want to go for the obvious reasons, so perhaps that is why the Big South appears to be a stepping stone. I think with the introduction of football at CCU, the Big South has really grown in the amount of talent that it acquires and the amount of respect it earns. We may not win all the games but CSU, Liberty, CCU, we work our assess off and give 100% every Saturday.

Mark CCU please read your last line....

[CSU Girl]

How can you agree with something I didn't say? xconfusedx There wasn't anything athletic about taking a team to a slaughter. It was MONEY!!!!!

Like I said the money is definately part of it but not the only reason. He truly believes that part of getting better is playing someone better than you. And it is good for recruiting.

[ericsaid]

I agree.

[SuperJon]

Uh oh, CSU Girl. You've ruffled the elitest feathers of the Liberty and Caoastal crowds. You see, nobody is worthy of being put in the same category as Liberty and Coastal.

Now, on to the subject at hand. Hard working is a relative term. Each school is different. Coastal is a public school. Liberty and Charleston Southern are private, christian schools. Liberty has a much larger student population and a much larger alumni base to draw from.

VMI spent a lot of money. Coastal spent a lot of money and is going to spend more since they just gained approval for their field house at the football stadium. What is a lot to one school might not be much to another. My point is that it is all relative.

CSU Girl, I do agree that Coach Mills and the football staff are working hard to build a successful program as are some of the other athletic programs at CSU. I commend all of them for what they are doing. Things are moving in the right direction at Charleston Southern. Finally!!!

I agree with what you said about it being relative. I was asking why she could consider CSU in that same category. I wanted to know if it was facilities, recruiting budget, scheduling, or what.

Liberty's marketing budget is $0. We start from scratch every year. We have to make our own money so that we can do stuff. Yet, even with that budget, we're still nationally televising all of our home games as well as regionally and locally televising them as well. We still are able to things that no other school in the Big South does.

Yes, we have people that are very generous to our school from a facilities standpoint (the Williams, LaHaye, Demoss, and Vines families come to mind). We are very lucky in that part. However, that's the only thing we're so far ahead of everyone on. We lose money on football just like everyone else does.

I just wanted to know the justification for her including CSU in the top category and what separated CSU from the other schools.

[Thumper250]

CSU has won half a title since 2002. CCU (2.5), G-W (2) and LU (1) each technically have more at this point. I'll be very, very surprised if LU doesn't run the table again in 2008. To lump anyone playing in the Big South in the same category as Liberty and Coastal just isn't realistic at this point. They do more with regards to football than anybody and have had more success as a result. I can't lump my guys in there right now, as much as I'd love to.

Granted, CSU has been more successful since 2005 than VMI and finally have gotten the Presbyterian monkey off their back. But, they aren't in the same breath with either CCU or Liberty.

Every team in the Big South is playing money games, either this year or the next and down the road. Bottom line is that those games pay bills everywhere. The exposure is normally nice, but that's not the overriding reason for playing FBS games. It comes down to needing the cash. When you factor in the sheer increase in injuries from playing teams from the ACC/SEC and other major FBS leagues, the experience factor for most FCS teams is negated.

[Libertine]

CSU playing Hawaii, Miami, and FL is not purely financial. Yes finances play a large role to help CSU get better facilities which we all agree they need; the other reasons 1) helps with recruiting, and 2 and probly the most important is that Coach Mills believes that one of the ways to improve yourself is to play someone better than you, that way you rise to their skill level.

We once had a coach here that subscribed to the same philosophy. It turns out not to work so well for either purpose when you're getting mauled by Paycheck U's scout teamers.


Those are the reasons you will see D1 schools on our schedules for the next few years that Coach Mills is at CSU.


Just FYI: CSU has been playing (mostly) D1 schools for a long time now.

[Hoseinexile07]

Granted, CSU has been more successful since 2005 than VMI and finally have gotten the Presbyterian monkey off their back.

Hold on there, Thumper. CSUcks hasn't gotten the Presbyterian monkey off its back. What they've done is what Prince Dmitrij Donskoi of Moscow did in 1380: he rebelled against the Mongols when they appeared to be weak. Although he defeated a Mongol army at Kulikovo Pole, it only pissed off Khan Tokhtamysh, who led a punitive expedition against Moscow, sacking and burning it the following year.* xbawlingx

The Succaneers have enjoyed a little wiggle room over the past two seasons, improving their all-time record against Presbyterian to a commanding 3-12. But we're more than a bit irked, especially because the loss last season concluded our first D-I campaign on a dissonant note. Like the Mongols, we'll coming back to CSU in November to set things straight and remind CSU who its overlord is. xasswhipx

*Excuse the obscure reference, but I study Russian history and this little vignette was the first thing I thought of. :D

[Libertine]

Hold on there, Thumper. CSUcks hasn't gotten the Presbyterian monkey off its back. What they've done is what Prince Dmitrij Donskoi of Moscow did in 1380: he rebelled against the Mongols when they appeared to be weak. Although he defeated a Mongol army at Kulikovo Pole, it only pissed off Khan Tokhtamysh, who led a punitive expedition against Moscow, sacking and burning it the following year.*

Blue Hose = Blue Horde? xlolx

Mamai was later assassinated, you know.

[IndianaAppMan]

Big South fans,

Apparently my notion that the Big South is unstable is wildly unpopular. That's actually kind of encouraging. For a while, the SoCon--Big South comparison seemed roughly equivalent to SEC--C-USA. In other words, in the geographic region we had Bigger, Powerful, More Traditional vs. Newbies Wishing They Were In the Other Conference.

I'm now convinced a more accurate comparison will be, a few years from now, SEC-ACC. In overlapping regions, we'll have one conference that's clearly stronger but the other will stand its ground, without every member scrambling to join the older one. There's room for both conferences.

If nothing else, I'm glad that now 6+ pages worth of interest have been generated from Big South fans. You guys should start even more threads. Make your conference be heard and relevant to FCS fans from all over. I'd love it if a SoCon-Big South rivalry blossoms, similar to SEC-ACC, SEC-Big Ten, ACC-Big East, or SoCon-CAA.

[Seawolf97]

Big South fans,

Apparently my notion that the Big South is unstable is wildly unpopular. That's actually kind of encouraging. For a while, the SoCon--Big South comparison seemed roughly equivalent to SEC--C-USA. In other words, in the geographic region we had Bigger, Powerful, More Traditional vs. Newbies Wishing They Were In the Other Conference.

I'm now convinced a more accurate comparison will be, a few years from now, SEC-ACC. In overlapping regions, we'll have one conference that's clearly stronger but the other will stand its ground, without every member scrambling to join the older one. There's room for both conferences.

If nothing else, I'm glad that now 6+ pages worth of interest have been generated from Big South fans. You guys should start even more threads. Make your conference be heard and relevant to FCS fans from all over. I'd love it if a SoCon-Big South rivalry blossoms, similar to SEC-ACC, SEC-Big Ten, ACC-Big East, or SoCon-CAA.

I think that rivalry will develop over time at least I hope it does. Once the season starts and we get close to conference games in October the threads will begin to appear.

[Hoseinexile07]

Blue Hose = Blue Horde? xlolx

Hey, I like it! If our football team could steamroll people like the Mongols did, I'd say that'd be a pretty awesome and appropriate mascot! xthumbsupx

There was an actual Mongol Blue Horde that controlled territory but fell in the 14th century.

[Sir William]

I think that rivalry will develop over time at least I hope it does. Once the season starts and we get close to conference games in October the threads will begin to appear.

Of course for this to include a SoCon rivalry for Stonybrook, Hofstra will have to become a SoCon member. :D

[Seawolf97]

Of course for this to include a SoCon rivalry for Stonybrook, Hofstra will have to become a SoCon member. :D

I guess-no SoCon teams in New England? xlolx

[Seawolf97]

Hey, I like it! If our football team could steamroll people like the Mongols did, I'd say that'd be a pretty awesome and appropriate mascot! xthumbsupx

There was an actual Mongol Blue Horde that controlled territory but fell in the 14th century.

That makes your program earlier than the Ivy League !

[Uncle Buck]

Of course for this to include a SoCon rivalry for Stonybrook, Hofstra will have to become a SoCon member. :D

Those road trips are going to be very tough to get by the wife xnodx