Top FCS Programs?

[Gully]

Who do people think the top five FCS programs are? I don't mean who has the best team this year, but rather who has the best football program/tradition. Perhaps I'm a homer with the inclusion of NDSU but our DII history and the strong FCS start combined with a lack of a fifth traditional FCS standout caused me to include them.

Georgia Southern
Appy
Montana
Delaware
NDSU

[AshevilleApp2]

Who do people think the top five FCS programs are? I don't mean who has the best team this year, but rather who has the best football program/tradition. Perhaps I'm a homer with the inclusion of NDSU but our DII history and the strong FCS start combined with a lack of a fifth traditional FCS standout caused me to include them.

Georgia Southern
Appy
Montana
Delaware
NDSU

I believe Youngstown State should be included.

[Gully]

I believe Youngstown State should be included.

Yep, I can't believe I missed them. Definetly top 5.

[OL FU]

Who do people think the top five FCS programs are? I don't mean who has the best team this year, but rather who has the best football program/tradition. Perhaps I'm a homer with the inclusion of NDSU but our DII history and the strong FCS start combined with a lack of a fifth traditional FCS standout caused me to include them.

Georgia Southern
Appy
Montana
Delaware
NDSU

You have to define your parameters . I think NDSU is good but FCS is (IMHO) defined ( by most of us ) by the playoffs so I wouldn't put NDSU there at this time. DII success is not FCS.

[DFW HOYA]

Who do people think the top five FCS programs are? I don't mean who has the best team this year, but rather who has the best football program/tradition.

In alphabetical order:

Delaware
Georgia Southern
Harvard
Montana
Yale

[OL FU]

GSU
Youngstown
ASU
Montana
Number five is what we would argue about.

Based on Mountaineer's analysis, it would be EKU although they ain't been much in a while if you go back to the start. Other date ranges are also analyzed.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35031


1. Georgia Southern.............680
2. Youngstown State.............460
3. Montana.............450
4. Marshall.............395
5. Eastern Kentucky.............380
6. Appalachian State.............375
7. Delaware.............350
8. Furman.............340
9. Northern Iowa.............275
10. McNeese State.............210

[OL FU]

In alphabetical order:

Delaware
Georgia Southern
Harvard
Montana
Yale

You know there is nothing I would like better than to put an Ivy team or for that matter a SWAC team on the list. At this point I just don't know how you compare them to the rest of the Division accept from a subjective view point.

[OL FU]

The above analysis of the last ten years has a very interesting entryxnodx xthumbsupx


Last 10 years:

1. Appalachian State.............295
2. Georgia Southern.............270
3. Montana.............245
4. Delaware.............170
5. Massachusetts.............160
6. Western Kentucky.............115
7. Furman.............115
8. Northern Iowa.............110
9. James Madison.............90
10. Youngstown State.............85

[appfan2008]

I like your numbers but I would say top 5 are
gsu
ysu
montana
asu
deleware

[andy7171]

You know there is nothing I would like better than to put an Ivy team or for that matter a SWAC team on the list. At this point I just don't know how you compare them to the rest of the Division accept from a subjective view point.

I agree. Harvard-Yale and Grambling-Southern COULD be in the equation, but there is no way to objectively look at it.

It would be interesting to see if there was a way to include attendance numbers and not just wins. Attendance is a good indicator of how successful a program is. Although that would sink the Northeasts figures.

[OL FU]

I like your numbers but I would say top 5 are
gsu
ysu
montana
asu
deleware

And I would say you have to put the parameters on the meaning of program. Is it since joining I-AA, because in that case NDSU wouldn't hit the radar for years. Delaware could certainly be justified over EKU simply for consistency. If it is the last ten years, I don't think YSU is in.

[OL FU]

I agree. Harvard-Yale and Grambling-Southern COULD be in the equation, but there is no way to objectively look at it.

It would be interesting to see if there was a way to include attendance numbers and not just wins. Attendance is a good indicator of how successful a program is. Although that would sink the Northeasts figures.

Attendance numbers can be very decieving. I will use FBS South Carolina as an example. Anything but a successful program but they have sold out their stadium as long as I can remember. Also, hard to compare schools with 15,000 students to schools with 1400xnodx

It has always been my opinion that the thing that seperates FCS from the rest DI is the playoffs. It is a pity that all programs don't participate, but that should be our measuring stickxnodx Not a perfect way to measure because intangibles are involved with whether you get in the playoffs, but over the years it seems to work out.

[bobbythekidd]

This is going to be a fun topic. I agree with OL FU, the parameters need to be set.

I say wins/loss records, playoff games, and only while FCS/ I-AA.

[asknoquarter21]

I agree...the last 10 years is much different than all time

[Gully]

Great discussion, point taken on NDSU being new to FCS with no playoff history. I also don't think schools who choose not to participate in the playoffs should be considered as it's too difficult to make comparisons.

Sounds like most agree on the top 4 or so.

[DFW HOYA]

It would be interesting to see if there was a way to include attendance numbers and not just wins. Attendance is a good indicator of how successful a program is. Although that would sink the Northeasts figures.

Wouldn't sink Yale, which routinely is in the top 5 in I-AA attendance.

[Skjellyfetti]

NDSU is by far the top FCS program. Everyone else is playing catchup.

[furman94]

The above analysis of the last ten years has a very interesting entryxnodx xthumbsupx

We should throw that in the Colonial Domination thread and see what we get! :D xcoolx

[andy7171]

Great discussion, point taken on NDSU being new to FCS with no playoff history. I also don't think schools who choose not to participate in the playoffs should be considered as it's too difficult to make comparisons.

Sounds like most agree on the top 4 or so.

Maybe we should consult Pete's Power Poll! xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[Appaholic]

All-Time Consistency

Georgia Southern
Youngstown State
Montana
Delaware
Appalachian State

[OL FU]

All-Time Consistency

Georgia Southern
Youngstown State
Montana
Delaware
Appalachian State

I would tend toward those five for the I-AA historical periodxnodx





It is interesting how fast three years can change things because while ASU has always been a top program, if you ask this question before 2005, ASU wouldn't have hit the top five radar screen.

It has been an amazing three yearsxnodx

[Appaholic]

I would tend toward those five for the I-AA historical periodxnodx





It is interesting how fast three years can change things because while ASU has always been a top program, if you ask this question before 2005, ASU wouldn't have hit the top five radar screen.

It has been an amazing three yearsxnodx

Agree.....was trying to think of another program (still with us which excludes Marshall) to avoid the homer label. Heck, if you had asked this question in 2006 before we repeated, I would have selected someone else. We've been a good program since 1984, but had neve made a championship game and had only been to semis twice, losing to Marshall once and I can't remember who we lost to the second time.....xrolleyesx

[appfan2008]

Agree.....was trying to think of another program (still with us which excludes Marshall) to avoid the homer label. Heck, if you had asked this question in 2006 before we repeated, I would have selected someone else. We've been a good program since 1984, but had neve made a championship game and had only been to semis twice, losing to Marshall once and I can't remember who we lost to the second time.....xrolleyesx

Montana in 2000!

[ASU88]

Agree.....was trying to think of another program (still with us which excludes Marshall) to avoid the homer label.
The next one that would come to mind would be Furman, wouldn't it?

[89Hen]

All-Time Consistency

Georgia Southern
Youngstown State
Montana
Delaware
Appalachian State
I have a hard time not agreeing with that list. But it seems a shame to not have UNI, Furman or McNeese in there.

I don't think NDSU can even be considered for this if we stick to the title of the thread. They can certainly be in the discussion if we were talking best football programs that are currently in I-AA.

I also don't think Harvard is anywhere near the list as 99% of their football achievements are from long before I-AA was formed.

[appfan2008]

I have a hard time not agreeing with that list. But it seems a shame to not have UNI, Furman or McNeese in there.

I don't think NDSU can even be considered for this if we stick to the title of the thread. They can certainly be in the discussion if we were talking best football programs that are currently in I-AA.

I also don't think Harvard is anywhere near the list as 99% of their football achievements are from long before I-AA was formed.

excellent work 89hen... thatll be our list
montana
ysu
deleware
gsu and
app

[AmsterBison]

Historically
Georgia Southern
Youngstown State
Montana
Delaware
Appalachian State

Right now
Ask me when the playoffs are over.

[OL FU]

The next one that would come to mind would be Furman, wouldn't it?

And going off 89's post also, I would put FU close to the hens, maybe at number six although it is still difficult not to but EKU on the list. I think FU and Delaware's playoff history is fairly close. Both have one NC, FU has been in the NC game three times. I am not sure but I think the number is the same for UD. But recent success would give the nod to UD over FU.xtwocentsx

McNeese and UNI would be behind FU only because they have not yet won the title but certainly there programs are consistenly good.

[Grizaholic17]

Montana in 2000!

xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex

Hope we meet again too!!!

I agree with the main stream here

MONTANA
YSU
GSU
APPY
I wouldn't put NDSU there yet. this is in the FCS, you need some history here first

[Ronbo]

I measure a great program by fan support. Butts in the seats brings everything good to the program, facilities, players, wins, etc. etc. etc.

Season ticket sales

Montana 19,364
Hawaii 24,500
Boise St 22,448
Fresno St 23,527

xsmiley_wix

[JoltinJoe]

I would go by most all-time wins. xsmiley_wix

Thus:

Yale
UPenn
Harvard
Princeton
Fordham

xsmiley_wix

[Grizaholic17]

I measure a great program by fan support. Butts in the seats brings everything good to the program, facilities, players, wins, etc. etc. etc.

Season ticket sales

Montana 19,364
Hawaii 24,500
Boise St 22,448
Fresno St 23,527

xsmiley_wix

xlolx xlolx xlolx

Surprised Boise State doesn't have more. But I could go for that ronbo!!! LMAO

[89Hen]

And going off 89's post also, I would put FU close to the hens, maybe at number six although it is still difficult not to but EKU on the list. I think FU and Delaware's playoff history is fairly close. Both have one NC, FU has been in the NC game three times. I am not sure but I think the number is the same for UD. But recent success would give the nod to UD over FU.xtwocentsx
On field is too close to call, but because of attendance and perhaps name recognition (fairly or not, we are a state xsmiley_wix ), I gave it to UD.

[stevdock]

You guys agreed on Top5 fast enough. Who would be the next 5 then?

[OL FU]

You guys agreed on Top5 fast enough. Who would be the next 5 then?

Furman
EKU
UNI
McNeese
UMass


Not necesarily in that order. xnodx

[OL FU]

On field is too close to call, but because of attendance and perhaps name recognition (fairly or not, we are a state xsmiley_wix ), I gave it to UD.

I don't disagree. It ain't called the Furman Wing Txeyebrowx

[mcveyrl]

I just glanced at the thread, but here's my take (not necessarily in any order):

App (clearly a top program with their three-peat)
Montana (consistently good, although not super great. Their playoff streak is impressive and fan support is also a plus here)
Delaware (same as Montana without the playoff streak, but in a tougher conference)
Georgia Southern (I'm afraid they may be fading, but are still a top team based on past performances)
Youngstown State (another team that's usually in the playoff mix)
JMU (what? the first guy had NDSU...)

[89Hen]

You guys agreed on Top5 fast enough. Who would be the next 5 then?
Well we've already got Furman, McNeese and UNI. Only need two more... UMass and EKU might round it out for me.

[IndianaAppMan]

If we're talking about programs overall, Marshall would have to be considered among anyone's Top Five before NDSU by any measure, other than the past ten years, obviously.

Stewart Mandel of SI did something interesting in a recent column in which he classified all the BCS programs as "Kings," "Barons," "Knights," and "Peasants." I think another thread discussed this recently. Check it out: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/stewart_mandel/08/08/cfb.bag/index.html

I'm trying to use his same criteria for the reason behind my choices, so don't be offended, for instance, JMU fans, that I'm not including your team among the "Kings." Read the article and maybe you'll agree why a chose each team.

I'll just do "Kings" and "Barons" for simplicity.

Here are my "Kings" in the FCS:

Georgia Southern
Montana
App State
Youngstown State
Marshall*
Delaware
UMass

Barons:

James Madison
Furman
North Dakota State
Northern Iowa
Wofford
New Hampshire
Montana State
Eastern Kentucky
McNeese State
Richmond

This isn't my prediction of what WILL happen. It's my assessment of what HAS happened.
I don't take into account attendance, as that would be more a measurement of fan performance, not on-the-field performance.


*I felt I couldn't exclude Marshall because of the huge run they had in the 90's, despite their separation from the FCS for a decade.

[89Hen]

Furman
EKU
UNI
McNeese
UMass


Not necesarily in that order. xnodx
xlolx We're on a roll OL. xthumbsupx

[OL FU]

Well we've already got Furman, McNeese and UNI. Only need two more... UMass and EKU might round it out for me.

I beat you to it:p Reputation my buttxlolx

[Woof]

History speaks for itself and wins fill seats...maybe the better question is which program or programs stand the best chance to join this elite group in the next 5-10 years ?

[89Hen]

Barons:

James Madison
Furman
North Dakota State
Northern Iowa
Wofford
New Hampshire
Montana State
Eastern Kentucky
McNeese State
UNH
Richmond
So good they make it twice. :p I'm not sure you can put Wofford or UNH on a list with the likes of Furman, UNI, EKU.... they simply don't have the history or support to be comparable. Richmond is out of place too.

[OL FU]

If we're talking about programs overall, Marshall would have to be considered among anyone's Top Five before NDSU by any measure, other than the past ten years, obviously.

Stewart Mandel of SI did something interesting in a recent column in which he classified all the BCS programs as "Kings," "Barons," "Knights," and "Peasants." I think another thread discussed this recently. Check it out: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/stewart_mandel/08/08/cfb.bag/index.html

I'm trying to use his same criteria for the reason behind my choices, so don't be offended, for instance, JMU fans, that I'm not including your team among the "Kings." Read the article and maybe you'll agree why a chose each team.

I'll just do "Kings" and "Barons" for simplicity.

Here are my "Kings" in the FCS:

Georgia Southern
Montana
App State
Youngstown State
Marshall*
Delaware
UMass

Barons:

James Madison
Furman
North Dakota State
Northern Iowa
Wofford
New Hampshire
Montana State
Eastern Kentucky
McNeese State
UNH
Richmond

This isn't my prediction of what WILL happen. It's my assessment of what HAS happened.


*I felt I couldn't exclude Marshall because of the huge run they had in the 90's, despite their separation from the FCS for a decade.

Marshall isn't a top FCS program so they are out.

It would really be difficult to justify UMass over Furman.

[OL FU]

History speaks for itself and wins fill seats...maybe the better question is which program or programs stand the best chance to join this elite group in the next 5-10 years ?

Start another thread:p xlolx

History can be analysed. The future xconfusedx we can have all sorts of pissing matches over that onexsmiley_wix

[IndianaAppMan]

So good they make it twice. :p I'm not sure you can put Wofford or UNH on a list with the likes of Furman, UNI, EKU.... they simply don't have the history or support to be comparable. Richmond is out of place too.

Yup. I noticed that a second ago and corrected it. xsmiley_wix

Also thought I'd add that attendance/support weren't a factor in my choices, because I knew that people would question that. But I can see why Wofford would not make some people's Barons list, if they did one.

[IndianaAppMan]

Marshall isn't a top FCS program so they are out.

It would really be difficult to justify UMass over Furman.

Agreed, but in this thread there's not any set criteria, so I made up my own. That's why I included Marshall.

Ya know, now that I think about it, you're right about the UMass-Furman thing. xoopsx I think part of me decided to put UMass in there so there could be 2 CAA programs listed. I didn't want to be accused of SoCon homerism.

So for a do-over, my "Kings" list would have to either exclude UMass or include Furman. Either way, it makes me look like a SoCon homer. Oh well.

[Mountaineer]

My picks (based on OL FU's research (and my upkeep ;))) :

Top 5:
Montana
Appalachian State
Georgia Southern
Youngstown State
Delaware

Next 5:
McNeese State
Northern Iowa
Massachusetts
Furman
James Madison

[OL FU]

Agreed, but in this thread there's not any set criteria, so I made up my own. That's why I included Marshall.

Ya know, now that I think about it, you're right about the UMass-Furman thing. xoopsx I think part of me decided to put UMass in there so there could be 2 CAA programs listed. I didn't want to be accused of SoCon homerism.

So for a do-over, my "Kings" list would have to either exclude UMass or include Furman. Either way, it makes me look like a SoCon homer. Oh well.

Personally if you are going to have kings it would be

ASU
GSU
UM
Youngstown


UD needs to win another championship and EKU has lost its umphxnodx

[89Hen]

History speaks for itself and wins fill seats...maybe the better question is which program or programs stand the best chance to join this elite group in the next 5-10 years ?
Best chances IMO would start with JMU, CalPoly and NDSU (not in any order). xpeacex

[IndianaAppMan]

Help me out on the history lesson, fellas.

What justifies Delaware ahead of Furman? If you looked at both teams' football seasons over the past, say, 20 years, and shuffled them like a card deck, they seem pretty similar. As far as I'm aware, Delaware has done better as of late, but Furman did better earlier on.

[OL FU]

Best chances IMO would start with JMU, CalPoly and NDSU (not in any order). xpeacex

Don't forget Ga Statexnodx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx :o :o xlolx xlolx

[OL FU]

Help me out on the history lesson, fellas.

What justifies Delaware ahead of Furman? If you looked at both teams' football seasons over the past, say, 20 years, and shuffled them like a card deck, they seem pretty similar. As far as I'm aware, Delaware has done better as of late, but Furman did better earlier on.

I think 89 summed it up. On the field pretty much equal over the last 30 years. UD has reputation and has had more success in the last five years.xnodx

[89Hen]

Help me out on the history lesson, fellas.

What justifies Delaware ahead of Furman? If you looked at both teams' football seasons over the past, say, 20 years, and shuffled them like a card deck, they seem pretty similar. As far as I'm aware, Delaware has done better as of late, but Furman did better earlier on.
You are correct that they have about the same achievements on the field. The thing that puts UD over the top for me is the 22,000 fans that come to see them every week. The Hens have been near the top of I-AA attendance for a very long time. They also have a name that is more recognizable than Furman. That may be because we are a state school, but it's the truth.

[IndianaAppMan]

You are correct that they have about the same achievements on the field. The thing that puts UD over the top for me is the 22,000 fans that come to see them every week. The Hens have been near the top of I-AA attendance for a very long time. They also have a name that is more recognizable than Furman. That may be because we are a state school, but it's the truth.

Furman, a school of only 2,500, packs in roughly 15,000 people. Just think how amazing that is when you also consider that, as a private school, their alumni are probably more spread out than a state school like Delaware or App State. How many students go to Delaware, anyway?

[OL FU]

Furman, a school of only 2,500, packs in roughly 15,000 people. Just think how amazing that is when you also consider that, as a private school, their alumni are probably more spread out than a state school like Delaware or App State. How many students go to Delaware, anyway?

I wouldn't put attendance in the mix. Way to many variables to be comparable. But UD has the reputation. As I stated before, it isn't called the Furman Wing T and even though UD doesn't used it any more it is kinda nice to have an offensive scheme named after your schoolxnodx

Personally, the main reason I would put them ahead of Furman is recent success. A National championship and a runner up since Furman's last trip to the NC.

[Philly Phoenix Phan]

I wouldn't put attendance in the mix. Way to many variables to be comparable. But UD has the reputation. As I stated before, it isn't called the Furman Wing T and even though UD doesn't used it any more it is kinda nice to have an offensive scheme named after your schoolxnodx

Personally, the main reason I would put them ahead of Furman is recent success. A National championship and a runner up since Furman's last trip to the NC.

Agreed. If I may add my 2 cents to this all this wisdom, the use of attendence would be tough to compare. I read that Montana sold near 20,000 season tickets, but I know I saw a map of Montana once, and Im pretty sure that makes a Montana home football game the biggest thing for hundreds of miles. Of course the counter argument is that more densely populated areas would create a bigger fan base or the opportunity to draw more people. A good case, and one I happen to be familiar with is Elon. When we look back in 20 years on Elon's 10 national titlesxthumbsupx , would they even be drawing over 20,000? Given all the other allegiances in North Carolina, the need for a bigger stadium and the wide geographical pool from which Elon draws, probably not. But I can't wait to find out!

[89Hen]

Furman, a school of only 2,500, packs in roughly 15,000 people. Just think how amazing that is when you also consider that, as a private school, their alumni are probably more spread out than a state school like Delaware or App State. How many students go to Delaware, anyway?
UD has I think close to 15,000 undergrad these days, but only gets 2-4k students for games with 4k being the very rare exception. One thing to remember is that there are more out of state students at UD than in-state. That means long weekends kids go home and after graduation, many leave Newark and DE.

[OL FU]

UD has I think close to 15,000 undergrad these days, but only gets 2-4k students for games with 4k being the very rare exception. One thing to remember is that there are more out of state students at UD than in-state. That means long weekends kids go home and after graduation, many leave Newark and DE.

not that it matters, but since you are one of the chief spin doctors:)

The student body size and football attendance typically have more to do with the number of alumni, not students. If Furman graduates 500 per year (it was 400 when I attended), over 20 years we have 10,000 alums, Delaware has xconfusedx 50-60,000xsmiley_wix

any way personally not a big deal to me. I just don't think attendance matters except to the teams of those fans and maybe visiting teams. I think it is great that Montana gets 19K a game but does it impact me as a fan one way or the other. Not really.

At the same time I will give UD the rep advantage. I don't think we are close on the reputation level except for a few FCS who look at what has happen on the field over the last 25 years. xnodx (and that ain't most people)

[umassfan]

Wait a min..... hold up... UMass has been to 3 NC Games since I-AA has started. They have won the last 3 CAA/A10 titles and hold the most CAA/A-10/Yankee Conf championships. I dont know how they arent in the top 5 over Delaware nevermind be out of the top 10 bounced by Furman. What has Furman done?

[Eight Legger]

1. Gardner-Webb
2. Bryant
3. Winston-Salem State
4. Morehead State
5. Arkansas Pine Bluff


That's just off the top of my head though...

[IndianaAppMan]

Wait a min..... hold up... UMass has been to 3 NC Games since I-AA has started. They have won the last 3 CAA/A10 titles and hold the most CAA/A-10/Yankee Conf championships. I dont know how they arent in the top 5 over Delaware nevermind be out of the top 10 bounced by Furman. What has Furman done?

Not much, except they're the only team in the SoCon with a winning record against App State, they've been to the national title game three times as well, winning once, just like UMass. They've also been to the semis numerous times. They had a major win against FBS North Carolina back in '99, smoking them by about 3 touchdowns. They've won the SoCon more times than any other team since 1AA got started, with 12 titles compared to the SoCon's consensus top five teams in App and GSU's (8 each). [No wonder Furman-GSU-App State is such a strong hate-circle.]

So, just so I've got the record straight, Delaware and UMass are such overwhelmingly better programs than Furman because their deep playoff runs have come more recently? Let's not forget that as recently as 2005 FU was in the semis, and they were in the playoffs in '06.

[skinny_uncle]

History speaks for itself and wins fill seats...maybe the better question is which program or programs stand the best chance to join this elite group in the next 5-10 years ?
SIU
xnodx

[griz&beer]

I like your numbers but I would say top 5 are
gsu
ysu
montana
asu
deleware

That is what I would say too. xthumbsupx

[griz&beer]

Help me out on the history lesson, fellas.

What justifies Delaware ahead of Furman? If you looked at both teams' football seasons over the past, say, 20 years, and shuffled them like a card deck, they seem pretty similar. As far as I'm aware, Delaware has done better as of late, but Furman did better earlier on.

I would say the support. I relay like Furman but people forget what you did in the past. What is hot is in and people love to jump on the bandwagon.

[bobbythekidd]

Wait a min..... hold up... UMass has been to 3 NC Games since I-AA has started. They have won the last 3 CAA/A10 titles and hold the most CAA/A-10/Yankee Conf championships. I dont know how they arent in the top 5 over Delaware nevermind be out of the top 10 bounced by Furman. What has Furman done?
HMMM. Good points.

UMASS= 615 games, 346 wins, and 20 playoff games.

Furman= 645 games, 352 wins, and 31 playoff games.

[Mountain Panther]

Who do people think the top five FCS programs are? I don't mean who has the best team this year, but rather who has the best football program/tradition. Perhaps I'm a homer with the inclusion of NDSU but our DII history and the strong FCS start combined with a lack of a fifth traditional FCS standout caused me to include them.

Georgia Southern
Appy
Montana
Delaware
NDSU

No way NDSU is included over UNI...NO WAY. xpeacex

Slow down, you JUST made the transition.

Take NDSU off that list and replace them with Youngstown.

[BlueHen86]

Not much, except they're the only team in the SoCon with a winning record against App State, they've been to the national title game three times as well, winning once, just like UMass. They've also been to the semis numerous times. They had a major win against FBS North Carolina back in '99, smoking them by about 3 touchdowns. They've won the SoCon more times than any other team since 1AA got started, with 12 titles compared to the SoCon's consensus top five teams in App and GSU's (8 each). [No wonder Furman-GSU-App State is such a strong hate-circle.]

So, just so I've got the record straight, Delaware and UMass are such overwhelmingly better programs than Furman because their deep playoff runs have come more recently? Let's not forget that as recently as 2005 FU was in the semis, and they were in the playoffs in '06.

Where did anybody say Delaware is overwhelmingly better than Furman? Seems to me most people agree it's very close between the Hens and the Paladins.

[IndianaAppMan]

Using the strongest-attendance = strongest-program logic, I suppose that makes Michigan, Penn State, Ohio State, and Tennessee hands-down the best programs in FBS? Certainly those are great programs, but wouldn't on-the-field performance exclude all but OSU in that group? I would put LSU, Oklahoma, USC, and Florida ahead of those others despite having at least 10,000 fewer in attendance per game.

Likewise, I don't think that a team like Furman should be discounted because they have fewer in attendance. If anything, the fact that they have a far smaller alumni base to support them, while still selling tickets in the same ballpark as most of the larger FCS public schools, should be a bonus for them, not for another school.

The ranking of the top programs should be based on wins, conference titles, and playoff performance. Nothing else.

[Houndawg]

Wait a min..... hold up... UMass has been to 3 NC Games since I-AA has started. They have won the last 3 CAA/A10 titles and hold the most CAA/A-10/Yankee Conf championships. I dont know how they arent in the top 5 over Delaware nevermind be out of the top 10 bounced by Furman. What has Furman done?

I don't think the CAA title counts that much for this thread because it can be won by a team that isn't as good as it's conference mates if the schedule falls right as far as who you don't play. Not intended as a knock on any team or the strength of the conference, just the way the conference is set up.

[BlueHen86]

Using the strongest-attendance = strongest-program logic, I suppose that makes Michigan, Penn State, Ohio State, and Tennessee hands-down the best programs in FBS? Certainly those are great programs, but wouldn't on-the-field performance exclude all but OSU in that group? I would put LSU, Oklahoma, USC, and Florida ahead of those others despite having at least 10,000 fewer in attendance per game.

Likewise, I don't think that a team like Furman should be discounted because they have fewer in attendance. If anything, the fact that they have a far smaller alumni base to support them, while still selling tickets in the same ballpark as most of the larger FCS public schools, should be a bonus for them, not for another school.

The ranking of the top programs should be based on wins, conference titles, and playoff performance. Nothing else.
Why are you so worked up over this?

[bobbythekidd]

1. Gardner-Webb
2. Bryant
3. Winston-Salem State
4. Morehead State
5. Arkansas Pine Bluff


That's just off the top of my head though...
Ah. The crack is good in Richmond.xnodx

[McNeese75]

YSU
GSU
Montana
ASU
Del

xthumbsupx

[BlueHen86]

YSU
GSU
Montana
ASU
Del

xthumbsupx
I agree with that list.

[RadMann]

I wouldn't put attendance in the mix. Way to many variables to be comparable. But UD has the reputation. As I stated before, it isn't called the Furman Wing T and even though UD doesn't used it any more it is kinda nice to have an offensive scheme named after your schoolxnodx

Personally, the main reason I would put them ahead of Furman is recent success. A National championship and a runner up since Furman's last trip to the NC.

It is called the Delaware Wing T because a Delaware head coach invented the formation (and no, that coach was not Tubby Raymond, he was the previous UD head coach before Tubby and also a member of the College Football Hall of Fame). --- I had to be a homer on that one, but your implication that it could have been called anything but the Delaware Wing-T riled me up! :)

[RadMann]

Wait a min..... hold up... UMass has been to 3 NC Games since I-AA has started. They have won the last 3 CAA/A10 titles and hold the most CAA/A-10/Yankee Conf championships. I dont know how they arent in the top 5 over Delaware nevermind be out of the top 10 bounced by Furman. What has Furman done?

UMass won a bunch of Yankee Conference titles when the conference was New England only and was relatively weak. While UMass has had a great program, their record against UD over the years shows which program has been better. The series is VERY lopsided in UD's favor.

[Chi Panther]

6 semi final appearances puts UNI in the category of #6-10

[FCS Go!]

I agree with that list.

Anyone with a brain will agree with that list. Four years ago I would have had McNeese on there.

[IndianaAppMan]

6 semi final appearances puts UNI in the category of #6-10

I'll be diplomatic.

Among current FCS teams, here's my take:

Top 4, in alpahabetical order:

Appalachian State
Georgia Southern
Montana
Youngstown State

Neck-and-Neck for #5:

Delaware & Furman

Sixth: Massachusetts

8 through 10, also alpahbetical:

James Madison
McNeese
Northern Iowa

Legitimate shot at joining the most elite programs in next 2-3 seasons, if they have some truly breakout seasons:

Wofford
Southern Illinois
NDSU
Richmond
New Hampshire
Eastern Washington

Programs I could see being playoff regulars and/or in the hunt for the title down the road, based on recent moves in the right direction:

Elon
Western Carolina
(This category I admit I'll need help on. I'm not as familiar with the up-and-comers outside the SoCon.)

[Chi Panther]

I'll be diplomatic.

Among current FCS teams, here's my take:

Top 4, in alpahabetical order:

Appalachian State
Georgia Southern
Montana
Youngstown State

Neck-and-Neck for #5:

Delaware & Furman

Sixth: Massachusetts

8 through 10, also alpahbetical:

James Madison
McNeese
Northern Iowa

Legitimate shot at joining the most elite programs in next 2-3 seasons, if they have some truly breakout seasons:

Wofford
Southern Illinois
NDSU
Richmond
New Hampshire
Eastern Washington

Programs I could see being playoff regulars and/or in the hunt for the title down the road, based on recent moves in the right direction:

Elon
Western Carolina
(This category I admit I'll need help on. I'm not as familiar with the up-and-comers outside the SoCon.)

LOL....dude you just named your whole conf....

You probably have been following ASU football for no more than 5 years....

[IndianaAppMan]

LOL....dude you just named your whole conf....

You probably have been following ASU football for no more than 5 years....

The Citadel, Chatty, & Samford aren't on there. But what are the arguments against the teams in the top ten? Also, is Wofford not deserving to be among the list they're in?

I've followed ASU football for 8 years, Furman for 11. (From Greenville; went to App.)

I should have put EKU in the "near elite" group. I'm sure a few Valley & SLC teams are deserving, too, but I'm not as familiar with their histories.Maybe Coastal Carolina & Liberty could become playoff regulars once the playoffs expand. Again, I don't pretend to be as familiar with teams outside the region.

What changes would you make?

[Reign of Terrier]

LOL....dude you just named your whole conf....

You probably have been following ASU football for no more than 5 years....

He didn't name the citadel or Chatty or samford . His comments about App, Furman, and GSU are well justified on the playing field. Wofford's been in the socon for 10 years and has had winning seasons for 7 years (or 8) of those years.As an FCS program its too young to say anything but a promising future wound't be far-fetched. Elon's the same way but they haven't had as many winning seasons.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

If this was 2004 would people have App in the top 5? Personally I would but I'm not sure some people would.

[IndianaAppMan]

If this was 2004 would people have App in the top 5? Personally I would but I'm not sure some people would.

As an App fan, I'll be the first to say they would be somewhere between 8 and 10. Furman, at that point, would easily be top five. xthumbsupx

I'm surprised you would have ASU top five with Furman, McNeese, UMass, and Delaware as options.

[SUjagTILLiDIE]

Southern U.
Grambling
FAMU
Tenn. St.
Harvard
Yale
Brown

[Mountaineer]

As an App fan, I'll be the first to say they would be somewhere between 8 and 10. Furman, at that point, would easily be top five. xthumbsupx

I'm surprised you would have ASU top five with Furman, McNeese, UMass, and Delaware as options.

As a fellow App fan, I'd encourage you brush up on your history. ASU has had one losing season in the past 20 years. 20 years. We've consistently been a participant in the playoffs (not a consecutive streak like Montana), but certainly in the thick of things. Yes, the three straight championships have vaulted us into the FCS elite, but ASU has had a great football program for years and would deserve to be hanging around for a mention in anyone's top five. 8-10, pfffft. xnodx

[GannonFan]

Wait a min..... hold up... UMass has been to 3 NC Games since I-AA has started. They have won the last 3 CAA/A10 titles and hold the most CAA/A-10/Yankee Conf championships. I dont know how they arent in the top 5 over Delaware nevermind be out of the top 10 bounced by Furman. What has Furman done?

Aw, you know it's close to football season when umassfan pops up with his illogical anti-UD rants. xlolx

Since UD's joined the conference and made it more than UMass and the little sisters of the poor, UD's won more conference titles than UMass. UD owns a 22-5 head to head record against UMass. UD has 19 wins in I-AA/FCS playoffs (in less time than UMass) versus UMass's 10 wins. UD has a higher winning percentage overall and in conference compared to UMass during the time they've both been in the conference together. Oh, and UMass has only won a share of the past two CAA/A10 titles - UNH and Richmond were champs in 2005. And UD's been to 3 NC's since I-AA started as well, and that's not including the innagural 1978 year when only a handful of teams even made up the I-AA ranks (which was inferior to the DII ranks at the time until everyone moved up (and down in some cases) by 1980-1982).

Seriously, what stat would even be in UMass's favor over UD, since the preponderance of relative stats speaks largely in UD's favor?

[Mountaineer]

Elon's the same way but they haven't had as many winning seasons.

Way too soon to even think of including Elon in the elite of FCS. In nine years (according to the CFB Data Warehouse), the Phoenix have three winning seasons. Let's check back in 20 and see what's happened. xnodx xthumbsupx

[IndianaAppMan]

As a fellow App fan, I'd encourage you brush up on your history. ASU has had one losing season in the past 20 years. 20 years. We've consistently been a participant in the playoffs (not a consecutive streak like Montana), but certainly in the thick of things. Yes, the three straight championships have vaulted us into the FCS elite, but ASU has had a great football program for years and would deserve to be hanging around for a mention in anyone's top five. 8-10, pfffft. xnodx

oh, i have already "brushed up" on my history. in my view, the top three at the time were gsu, montana, and ysu. then i'd put (in no order) delaware, furman, mcneese, & umass for 4-7. that leaves app right in there. i'm aware of the great '95 team & was a student during the '00 national semifinal year. i'd still give the other teams an edge, though. just my opinion.

[IndianaAppMan]

Way too soon to even think of including Elon in the elite of FCS. In nine years (according to the CFB Data Warehouse), the Phoenix have three winning seasons. Let's check back in 20 and see what's happened. xnodx xthumbsupx

see, that's what i'm saying. they're not in the vicinity of elite, but they are an up-and-comer. in a way, they could be to SoCon what UConn is to the Big East. Only time will tell. i think western may be the same in a few years with wagner. i never mentioned them as elite, but they have a legitimate shot at becoming a playoff regular like wofford based on their improvements.

[Mountaineer]

oh, i have already "brushed up" on my history. in my view, the top three at the time were gsu, montana, and ysu. then i'd put (in no order) delaware, furman, mcneese, & umass for 4-7. that leaves app right in there. i'm aware of the great '95 team & was a student during the '00 national semifinal year. i'd still give the other teams an edge, though. just my opinion.

Can you explain why?

In the same twenty years McNeese has had four losing seasons and no championships. UMass has also had four losing seasons and one championship.

Winning seasons, championships (conference and national) and playoff appearances go into determining the top teams, IMO. What criteria are you using?

[Mountaineer]

..but they are an up-and-comer..

Elon had six straight losing seasons before last year's 7-4 record. I guess for me the jury is still out on the whole "up-and-comer" stuff. Not to say I don't want to see SoCon teams improve, as it benefits the conference as a whole, but it's way early to start predicting greatness.

[SUjagTILLiDIE]

Team all time rankings.

http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/rankings/all_time_team_rankings.php

[Saint3333]

If we're talking all-time FCS replace JMU with EKU and there's your top 10.


My picks (based on OL FU's research (and my upkeep ;))) :

Top 5:
Montana
Appalachian State
Georgia Southern
Youngstown State
Delaware

Next 5:
McNeese State
Northern Iowa
Massachusetts
Furman
James Madison

[Mountaineer]

If we're talking all-time FCS replace JMU with EKU and there's your top 10.

I'd have no problem with that. EKU is certainly a storied program, and I liked our series with the Colonels. I was looking back..say..15 years or so. xnodx

[Saint3333]

If this was 2004 would people have App in the top 5? Personally I would but I'm not sure some people would.

As of 2004, I'd have ASU in the top 10, but not top five. Prior to 2005 ASU had 5 SoCon titles, 12 playoff appearances, but only 2 semifinal appearances. In addition they finished in the top 25 15 of the 22 years they were 1-AA (9 times in the top 10, 3 times in the top 5).

http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/southern/appalachian_state/in_the_polls.php

Interesting fact: Although ASU finished #2 in the year-end polls twice and multiple times weekly throughout the '87, '95, '00, and '01 seasons they were never ranked #1 any week in 1-AA until they won it all in 2005.

[Henny]

Aw, you know it's close to football season when umassfan pops up with his illogical anti-UD rants. xlolx

Since UD's joined the conference and made it more than UMass and the little sisters of the poor, UD's won more conference titles than UMass. UD owns a 22-5 head to head record against UMass. UD has 19 wins in I-AA/FCS playoffs (in less time than UMass) versus UMass's 10 wins. UD has a higher winning percentage overall and in conference compared to UMass during the time they've both been in the conference together. Oh, and UMass has only won a share of the past two CAA/A10 titles - UNH and Richmond were champs in 2005. And UD's been to 3 NC's since I-AA started as well, and that's not including the innagural 1978 year when only a handful of teams even made up the I-AA ranks (which was inferior to the DII ranks at the time until everyone moved up (and down in some cases) by 1980-1982).

Seriously, what stat would even be in UMass's favor over UD, since the preponderance of relative stats speaks largely in UD's favor?



xwhistlex Waiting for a person from the Pioneer Valley to respond. Cricket.. Cricket

[uofmman1122]

Who cares about the Old Guard schools!?

Don't you all know that Dayton is the best school in the history of FCS football, ever!?!?!?! They'd whoop all the schools listed in this thread!!!!1

xrulesxxrulesxxrulesxxrulesx

[JoltinJoe]

Team all time rankings.

http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/rankings/all_time_team_rankings.php

Be careful about that website, because information is sometimes not accurate.

For example, Fordham has 735 all-time wins according to the NCAA record book, not 435 as reported on that website. Ultimately, that has a big impact on where Fordham ranks on this "all time" list.

[OL FU]

Wait a min..... hold up... UMass has been to 3 NC Games since I-AA has started. They have won the last 3 CAA/A10 titles and hold the most CAA/A-10/Yankee Conf championships. I dont know how they arent in the top 5 over Delaware nevermind be out of the top 10 bounced by Furman. What has Furman done?

Three NC appearances one victory the same as you but a consistent playoff participant since the early 80sxnodx longevityxsmiley_wix

[OL FU]

It is called the Delaware Wing T because a Delaware head coach invented the formation (and no, that coach was not Tubby Raymond, he was the previous UD head coach before Tubby and also a member of the College Football Hall of Fame). --- I had to be a homer on that one, but your implication that it could have been called anything but the Delaware Wing-T riled me up! :)

You totally missed my point. My point was UD wins the reputation battle and I was pointing out for example that Furman didn't have an offensive scheme named after the schoolxeyebrowx

[OL FU]

Wait a min..... hold up... UMass has been to 3 NC Games since I-AA has started. They have won the last 3 CAA/A10 titles and hold the most CAA/A-10/Yankee Conf championships. I dont know how they arent in the top 5 over Delaware nevermind be out of the top 10 bounced by Furman. What has Furman done?

Based on analytics. See the first page of the thread for a reference. You can argue the methodology but my guess is that over the history of I-AA Furman has had more playoff success especially during the 80s. Also, the yankee conference isn't the CAA. While the CAA is strong, the Yankee conference was generally a punching bag in the playoffs ( or that is my memory anyway)

I you look at the analysis over the last ten years, Mass is in the top 5.

1. Georgia Southern.............680
2. Youngstown State.............460
3. Montana.............450
4. Marshall.............395
5. Eastern Kentucky.............380
6. Appalachian State.............375
7. Delaware.............350
8. Furman.............340
9. Northern Iowa.............275
10. McNeese State.............210
11. Massachusetts.............205

[89Hen]

Wait a min..... hold up... UMass has been to 3 NC Games since I-AA has started. They have won the last 3 CAA/A10 titles and hold the most CAA/A-10/Yankee Conf championships. I dont know how they arent in the top 5 over Delaware nevermind be out of the top 10 bounced by Furman. What has Furman done?
xnonono2x Furman has been to 3 NC Games since I-AA started too. You are so predictible regarding the most Yankee championships. xlolx Who cares that you beat out URI, UNH, BU and UConn for a title in 1972? xnutsx

UMass and Furman are in my 6-10 list, just like they are for OL FU and others.

[89Hen]

So, just so I've got the record straight, Delaware and UMass are such overwhelmingly better programs than Furman because their deep playoff runs have come more recently? Let's not forget that as recently as 2005 FU was in the semis, and they were in the playoffs in '06.
You don't have the record straight. I think it's been fairly unanimous that the 5th spot was VERY close between UD and FU. xpeacex

[89Hen]

Using the strongest-attendance = strongest-program logic, I suppose that makes Michigan, Penn State, Ohio State, and Tennessee hands-down the best programs in FBS?...

The ranking of the top programs should be based on wins, conference titles, and playoff performance. Nothing else.
The ranking should be based on what you think is important in defining a great PROGRAM. The question wasn't best TEAM over the years. Attendance is not one of my priorities but it does enter into the equation to break ties of teams that have very similar on field performances. However, it should be noted that fortunately, along with winning comes great support, so pretty much all the teams mentioned in the top 5 or 10 also happen to have great support and attendance.

[89Hen]

I'm not as familiar with the up-and-comers outside the SoCon.)
Just keep reading AGS. xthumbsupx

[stevdock]

I know we have no playoff history, but when and what would we have to do to get into the Top 10? You guys know what we've done especially the last two, so no reason to bring it up again, but I am curious.

[OL FU]

I know we have no playoff history, but when and what would we have to do to get into the Top 10? You guys know what we've done especially the last two, so no reason to bring it up again, but I am curious.

Three straight national championships would probably do the trickxlolx


I think again you have to define the parameters. For me when someone says top FCS programs it defines the entirety of FCS which is now thirty years old. So being a newbie makes it difficult under that definition. Playoff success will certainly move you up the ladder quickly. xnodx

[Mountaineer]

..For me when someone says top FCS programs it defines the entirety of FCS which is now thirty years old..Playoff success will certainly move you up the ladder quickly..

A good summation and one of the main criteria I use as well when talking about the elite of FCS. xnodx On our level I think playoff success is probably one of the most important factors. xthumbsupx

[furman94]

Playoffs = more respect in the FCS world!

[89Hen]

I know we have no playoff history, but when and what would we have to do to get into the Top 10? You guys know what we've done especially the last two, so no reason to bring it up again, but I am curious.
All the programs mentioned for the top 10 have been I-AA for a long time. I think you would need to make the NC game a couple times before being considered for top program historically. You can easily crack the top 10 in current programs with a couple trips to the playoffs.

[89Hen]

On our level I think playoff success is probably one of the most important factors. xthumbsupx


Playoffs = more respect in the FCS world!
xnodx That's why I won't put any SWAC or Ivy in my top programs. I-AA = PLAYOFFS. IMO it's what separates us from I-A, not the fewer schollies.

[uni88]

If this was 2004 would people have App in the top 5? Personally I would but I'm not sure some people would.

I wouldn't. In 2004 and before, App was similar to McNeese and UNI - very successful programs without a NC.


Among current FCS teams, here's my take:

Top 4, in alpahabetical order:
Appalachian State
Georgia Southern
Montana
Youngstown State

Neck-and-Neck for #5:
Delaware & Furman

Sixth: Massachusetts

8 through 10, also alpahbetical:
James Madison
McNeese
Northern Iowa

This is a pretty good analysis. There really are three different parts of a Top 10 - the first 4 with multiple NC's, the second 3 with a single NC and multiple appearances, and the final 3 (or 4) who either haven't demonstrated the same level of sustained success as those above it or haven't broken through and won a NC. The only question is where do you put EKU?


I know we have no playoff history, but when and what would we have to do to get into the Top 10? You guys know what we've done especially the last two, so no reason to bring it up again, but I am curious.

Sustained success in playoffs and an NC or two wouldn't hurt.

[LacesOut]

1) YSU
2) GSU
3) Montana
4) App State
5) Delaware

[IndianaAppMan]

Can you explain why?

In the same twenty years McNeese has had four losing seasons and no championships. UMass has also had four losing seasons and one championship.

Winning seasons, championships (conference and national) and playoff appearances go into determining the top teams, IMO. What criteria are you using?
My criteria is to put by far the most weight towards national championships, then NC game appearances, then semifinals, then playoff appearances. In no way would I want to disrespect what our Mountaineers had done pre-2005, but I just don't think they were on the level yet surpassed the other programs I named.

Meanwhile, going by your criteria (consecutive winning seasons & sustained presence in the playoff race), I would agree that ASU would be near top five, but still a tough argument against UMass & Delaware. The nice thing, for Apps fans, is that it's not even a debate here in 2008 as to ASU's Top Five Program status.

Elon had six straight losing seasons before last year's 7-4 record. I guess for me the jury is still out on the whole "up-and-comer" stuff. Not to say I don't want to see SoCon teams improve, as it benefits the conference as a whole, but it's way early to start predicting greatness.

Notice that I didn't actually predict greatness in my previous post. I tried to be careful in how I worded things. The teams with a "legitimate shot" included Wofford, So. Illinois, etc. Elon & WCU, on the other hand, were only teams that I could see becoming playoff regulars, maybe on par with Richmond or New Hampshire in recent years. I wouldn't quite call that greatness. I agree with you: the jury is certainly still out, but based on their moves in the right direction, I think they're a lot more likely to make noise than a team that is struggling along with no clear indication for improvement like, say, Chattanooga.

Perhaps another team that could be included would be Jacksonville State. Again, I'm not predicting greatness, just playoff appearances.


Legitimate shot at joining the most elite programs in next 2-3 seasons, if they have some truly breakout seasons:

Wofford
Southern Illinois
NDSU
Richmond
New Hampshire
Eastern Washington

Programs I could see being playoff regulars and/or in the hunt for the title down the road, based on recent moves in the right direction:

Elon
Western Carolina
(This category I admit I'll need help on. I'm not as familiar with the up-and-comers outside the SoCon.)

By the way, I'm interested in which other teams AGSers could see as a rising program in the FCS.


Three NC appearances one victory the same as you but a consistent playoff participant since the early 80sxnodx longevityxsmiley_wix
Agreed. But among teams that have never won a national title, I'd say NDSU is as likely to join the elite as any team.


Who cares about the Old Guard schools!?

Don't you all know that Dayton is the best school in the history of FCS football, ever!?!?!?! They'd whoop all the schools listed in this thread!!!!1

xrulesxxrulesxxrulesxxrulesx

xlmaox xlmaox xlmaox xlmaox xlmaox

Nice!

[furman94]

I don't know, I see UNI or someone similar winning a National Title before NDSU, only because they are used to playing in the playoffs and have been to the title game before. That's not saying that NDSU doesn't have a chance, but I don't see them winning in the next few years (this year, the next) I think that once they get the feel for the FCS and prove themselves by playing different teams similar to NDSU (state schools like App, GSU, etc; other than the MVC) they will most certainly become a National contender!

[Grizaholic17]

I don't know, I see UNI or someone similar winning a National Title before NDSU, only because they are used to playing in the playoffs and have been to the title game before. That's not saying that NDSU doesn't have a chance, but I don't see them winning in the next few years (this year, the next) I think that once they get the feel for the FCS and prove themselves by playing different teams similar to NDSU (state schools like App, GSU, etc; other than the MVC) they will most certainly become a National contender!

You don't need experience to be great. I give props to NDSU here. They really do have plenty of experience, not with playoffs, but with top calliber FCS programs

[furman94]

Come down South NDSU!

[Grizaholic17]

Come down South NDSU!

Careful with your words. You might get what you ask for. Maybe you should come up north. You're not too good up here. Say against...MSU. :p :p

[OL FU]

You don't need experience to be great. I give props to NDSU here. They really do have plenty of experience, not with playoffs, but with top calliber FCS programs

and they have D-II playoff experience. xnodx

[appfan2008]

I wouldn't. In 2004 and before, App was similar to McNeese and UNI - very successful programs without a NC.



This is a pretty good analysis. There really are three different parts of a Top 10 - the first 4 with multiple NC's, the second 3 with a single NC and multiple appearances, and the final 3 (or 4) who either haven't demonstrated the same level of sustained success as those above it or haven't broken through and won a NC. The only question is where do you put EKU?



Sustained success in playoffs and an NC or two wouldn't hurt.

i like your analysis... eku is the problem child

[UMass922]

xwhistlex Waiting for a person from the Pioneer Valley to respond. Cricket.. Cricket

Hopefully you're just referring to umassfan, who certainly does not speak for myself or any other UMass fans here. I disagree with him as strongly as you guys do.

Anyway, I'll go along with the general concensus that GSU, ASU, YSU, Montana, Delaware, and Furman are the top six.

[skinny_uncle]

Who do people think the top five FCS programs are? I don't mean who has the best team this year, but rather who has the best football program/tradition. Perhaps I'm a homer with the inclusion of NDSU but our DII history and the strong FCS start combined with a lack of a fifth traditional FCS standout caused me to include them.

Georgia Southern
Appy
Montana
Delaware
NDSU
A lot of it has to do with how you set the parameters. If you look at the history of the division, I would have to go with:

Georgia Southern
Youngstown State
Appalachian State
Eastern Kentucky
Montana

These are the only schools still in the division with multiple national titles. Marshall also won two but now has joined the FBS.

[Maroon&White]

Aw, you know it's close to football season when umassfan pops up with his illogical anti-UD rants. xlolx

Since UD's joined the conference and made it more than UMass and the little sisters of the poor, UD's won more conference titles than UMass. UD owns a 22-5 head to head record against UMass. UD has 19 wins in I-AA/FCS playoffs (in less time than UMass) versus UMass's 10 wins. UD has a higher winning percentage overall and in conference compared to UMass during the time they've both been in the conference together. Oh, and UMass has only won a share of the past two CAA/A10 titles - UNH and Richmond were champs in 2005. And UD's been to 3 NC's since I-AA started as well, and that's not including the innagural 1978 year when only a handful of teams even made up the I-AA ranks (which was inferior to the DII ranks at the time until everyone moved up (and down in some cases) by 1980-1982).

Seriously, what stat would even be in UMass's favor over UD, since the preponderance of relative stats speaks largely in UD's favor?

Typical, a UD ignoring years of history. I guess we should just limit this discussion of Top FCS programs to the years since UD joined IAA. Obviously nothing else matters, the division and the conference started the year UD joined, nothing happened before then.

[Henny]

A lot of it has to do with how you set the parameters. If you look at the history of the division, I would have to go with:

Georgia Southern
Youngstown State
Appalachian State
Eastern Kentucky
Montana

These are the only schools still in the division with multiple national titles. Marshall also won two but now has joined the FBS.

Our win in Carbondale still hurts. I understand. UD has surpassed EKU long ago, dont forget, besides the three I-AA championships we have been to, we have also been to six semis (82,92,97,00,03 and 07). Think what you want I could care less.

[GannonFan]

Typical, a UD ignoring years of history. I guess we should just limit this discussion of Top FCS programs to the years since UD joined IAA. Obviously nothing else matters, the division and the conference started the year UD joined, nothing happened before then.

Reading comprehension trouble? I only brought up the conference thing because the other ranter was comparing UMass's 50+ years of history in that conference with UD's now 22 years. And in that 22 years UD has clearly been better than UMass in that conference. Why is that hard to understand. And yes, the conference is immensely better since UD, Richmond, W&M, JMU, Hofstra, nova, and even Towson joined. Win percentages even back that up. And as for the time UD joined I-AA, they did it just two years after UMass, and there's no doubt that the I-AA before then (maybe 20 teams total) wasn't any better than DII was at the time. Sorry to choose to wait until I-AA was actually populated with a decent number of teams. :p

[GannonFan]

I have all the respect in the world for the teams EKU fielded in the 80's, but it's been almost two decades since EKU's been good nationally, and that's with playing in a conference that hasn't even won a playoff game in more than a decade. That's a huge drag on their all-time consideration.

[Hambone]

From someone who didn't closely follow FCS until the past couple years, the ones that I remember hearing about when I didn't follow it would be Georgia Southern, Youngstown State and Montana, so they may be some of the more recognizable ones (now Appy after their titles and Michigan win) to those outside the FCS world.

[ChickenMan]

A lot of it has to do with how you set the parameters. If you look at the history of the division, I would have to go with:

Georgia Southern
Youngstown State
Appalachian State
Eastern Kentucky
Montana

These are the only schools still in the division with multiple national titles. Marshall also won two but now has joined the FBS.


EKU's early titles can't compensate for their lack of success since the mid '90's. The fact is that EKU hasn't won a single playoff game since 1994 and regardless of their early I-AA success.. I can't consider any program that hasn't won a playoff game in 13 years to be a Top 5 all-time FCS program.

[stevdock]

Come down South NDSU!

As far as I know we are undefeated on the road against the SoCon. In fact one of the GSU posters said we were one of the most physical teams that they had played against in recent history. Looking forward to GSU coming back up here either next year or the year after.

[stevdock]

Three straight national championships would probably do the trickxlolx


I think again you have to define the parameters. For me when someone says top FCS programs it defines the entirety of FCS which is now thirty years old. So being a newbie makes it difficult under that definition. Playoff success will certainly move you up the ladder quickly. xnodx

We'll get to work on that first one right away. As far as playoff participation being a major part like most of you keep saying, that would mean that our last two seasons wouldn't mean anything?? Going 20-2, beating 3 of 4 FCS teams. I'm not saying that we should be in the top 10 yet, but I do believe we are on the fast track to be there very soon.

The good/sad part is this is nowhere close to being on top of NDSU's list right now. To top the list is to get a home playoff game for the first time since the Fargodome was built, early 90's.

[appfan2008]

what has eku done in the last 10-15 years?

[89Hen]

From someone who didn't closely follow FCS until the past couple years, the ones that I remember hearing about when I didn't follow it would be Georgia Southern, Youngstown State and Montana, so they may be some of the more recognizable ones (now Appy after their titles and Michigan win) to those outside the FCS world.
This is actulally very good info coming from somebody who is new to I-AA. Thanks for sharing. xthumbsupx

[OL FU]

We'll get to work on that first one right away. As far as playoff participation being a major part like most of you keep saying, that would mean that our last two seasons wouldn't mean anything?? Going 20-2, beating 3 of 4 FCS teams. I'm not saying that we should be in the top 10 yet, but I do believe we are on the fast track to be there very soon.

The good/sad part is this is nowhere close to being on top of NDSU's list right now. To top the list is to get a home playoff game for the first time since the Fargodome was built, early 90's.


I don't think the last two years don't mean anything they are just hard to compare against teams with a 25-30 year historyxnodx

[BlueHen86]

I don't think the last two years don't mean anything they are just hard to compare against teams with a 25-30 year historyxnodx

Agreed. No disrespect intended toward NDSU, but they don't belong in this discussion - yet.;)

[OL FU]

Agreed. No disrespect intended toward NDSU, but they don't belong in this discussion - yet.;)

Yep, with a two year history without playoff participation the only place you can look are in the polls. And a top five and top ten finish is a damn fine start. xnodx

[IndianaAppMan]

i like your analysis... eku is the problem child


UD has surpassed EKU long ago


I have all the respect in the world for the teams EKU fielded in the 80's, but it's been almost two decades since EKU's been good nationally, and that's with playing in a conference that hasn't even won a playoff game in more than a decade. That's a huge drag on their all-time consideration.


EKU's early titles can't compensate for their lack of success since the mid '90's. The fact is that EKU hasn't won a single playoff game since 1994 and regardless of their early I-AA success.. I can't consider any program that hasn't won a playoff game in 13 years to be a Top 5 all-time FCS program.


what has eku done in the last 10-15 years?

EKU fans, where are you? Step up and make your case for the Colonels!

Maybe the lack of respsonse is a sign of how the program has faded, with less interest expressed than other teams with more recent success. Maybe it's just that not many EKU fans are on AGS. Hmmmm....

[ChickenMan]

Format for awarding performance points is as follows:

5 points - First Round playoffs
10 points - Quarterfinals
15 points - Semifinals
20 points - Championship Game
25 points - Winning the Championship Game


performance over the last 15 years:

1. Montana.............410
2. Appalachian State.............325
3. Georgia Southern.............315
4. Youngstown State.............310
5. Delaware.............235
6. Marshall.............205
7. McNeese State.............190
8. Northern Iowa.............165
9. Massachusetts.............160
10. Western Kentucky.............130
Furman.............130
James Madison.............110
Troy.............95
Western Illinois.............85
Southern Illinois.............70
Colgate.............70
Richmond .............65
Florida A&M.............65
Eastern Washington.............65
William & Mary.............55
New Hampshire.............55
Lehigh.............55
Villanova.............50
Northwestern State.............50
Illinois State.............50
Boise State.............50
Wofford.............45
Sam Houston State.............45
Hofstra.............45
Idaho .............40
Eastern Illinois.............40
Stephen F. Austin*.............35
32. Eastern Kentucky.............35


anyone still think EKU should be in the Top 5???

[furman94]

Does EKU have any AGS peeps?

[ekufbfan]

IndianaAppMan;1060728]EKU fans, where are you? Step up and make your case for the Colonels!

Maybe the lack of respsonse is a sign of how the program has faded, with less interest expressed than other teams with more recent success. Maybe it's just that not many EKU fans are on AGS. Hmmmm

I can't say that I disagree with any of the positive or negative points made regarding EKU. We certainly have made no noise on the national scene lately, but we have maintained 31 consecutive winning seasons (that's NO losing seasons dating back to the 1970's!). Personally, I can see the difference in the strength of the teams we put on the field in the 1980's and 90's compared to the last number of years. There are numerous reasons for this, including what most think caused our fall was the lack of suppport by a former EKU President who did his best to destroy all athletics at EKU.

The passion is still there, but I don't know if we will ever match the success we once had. I certainly hope so!! Nevertheless, you cannot discount the success we have achieved, our winning percentages and our trips to the national championships, our two National Titles (one over the Delaware Blue Hens I might add), 2 Runner-up titles and trips to the playoffs since IAA/FCS was established. If we belong in the top 5-6 or not is certainly debatable. However, I am sure that you can't put former DII teams ahead of EKU and certainly not fellow OVC member TSU. And didn't I see Morehead State mentioned (you gotta' be kidding me!)?

I am hoping that we are seeing EKU (who was the OVC Champ last year) returning to the dominance we once had both in the OVC and nationally.
GO COLONELS!

[FormerPokeCenter]

I can't speak for any other Cowboy fans, but since we've been bounced from the playoffs in the first round the last three times we went to the party, I'm not ready to say we're an elite team. Yes, we've been to the title game twice in the last 11 years, but we've never won the damn thing.

I don't think we belong in the top ten. I'll probably change my opinion if we ever win the thing....

From where I sit, any team that's got a NC Title deserves to be ranked ahead of us...

[appfan2008]

I can't say that I disagree with any of the positive or negative points made regarding EKU. We certainly have made no noise on the national scene lately, but we have maintained 31 consecutive winning seasons (that's NO losing seasons dating back to the 1970's!). Personally, I can see the difference in the strength of the teams we put on the field in the 1980's and 90's compared to the last number of years. There are numerous reasons for this, including what most think caused our fall was the lack of suppport by a former EKU President who did his best to destroy all athletics at EKU.

The passion is still there, but I don't know if we will ever match the success we once had. I certainly hope so!! Nevertheless, you cannot discount the success we have achieved, our winning percentages and our trips to the national championships, our two National Titles (one over the Delaware Blue Hens I might add), 2 Runner-up titles and trips to the playoffs since IAA/FCS was established. If we belong in the top 5-6 or not is certainly debatable. However, I am sure that you can't put former DII teams ahead of EKU and certainly not fellow OVC member TSU. And didn't I see Morehead State mentioned (you gotta' be kidding me!)?

I am hoping that we are seeing EKU (who was the OVC Champ last year) returning to the dominance we once had both in the OVC and nationally.
GO COLONELS!

well for all the bad things that have been said there is something to say about 31 straight without a losing season but that sure is not much playoff success with all that winning

[OL FU]

well for all the bad things that have been said there is something to say about 31 straight without a losing season but that sure is not much playoff success with all that winning

From a historic playoff from the start of I-AA perspective, EKU has to be included. In the top program discussion, you have to consider more recent experience and unfortunately for them, they aren't part of that discussion.

[eaglesrback]

Don't forget Ga Statexnodx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx :o :o xlolx xlolx

And...Kennesaw State;)

[JMU DUUUKES]

ok i can't read all 12 pgs, but the first 5 didn't give JMU any respect. If your doing ALL TIME, then no we should not be in, and I give the nod to the UD's of the land.

But last 10 years as previously mentioned? A national title, multiple playoff births, always (nearly) in the top 15. Sell out crowds, when I was there we lost TWO home games the whole time (stupid last second WM 55yd FG, haha)

[JohnStOnge]

I can't speak for any other Cowboy fans, but since we've been bounced from the playoffs in the first round the last three times we went to the party, I'm not ready to say we're an elite team. Yes, we've been to the title game twice in the last 11 years, but we've never won the damn thing.

I don't think we belong in the top ten. I'll probably change my opinion if we ever win the thing....

From where I sit, any team that's got a NC Title deserves to be ranked ahead of us...

I'd have to 1) come up with reasonable criteria and 2) do some research but my impression is that McNeese has been on the borderline between being and not being a top 10 program over the past 10 years. Another program I think could be a top 10 program over the past 10 years in spite of never winning a national title is Northern Iowa.

What's frustrating is believing McNeese has had at least four teams good enough to have a legitimate shot at winning it all, 1995, 1997, 1998, and 2002, and getting zero. Particularly frustrating were the one point loss to Youngstown State in 1997 and the blowout in 2002 at the hands of a team the Cowboys beat 38-13 earlier in the season.

Northern Iowa's had some frustrations too. One I always found sad is that they didn't make the playoffs in 1997 in spite of having finished ahead of Youngstown State in the Gateway standings and beating the Penguins head to head. Northern Iowa finished 7-4 thanks to nonconference losses at Iowa, at 10-1 McNeese, and at 10-1 Cal Poly. Their other loss at that point was to 10-1 Gateway champ Western Illinois.

That, to me, was a team that probably would've had a shot at the national title if it could've gotten into the tournament but didn't even get a shot. As the second place Gateway finisher it sat it out because of a brutal non conference slate while the third place team got in and won the whole thing.

[IndianaAppMan]

ok i can't read all 12 pgs, but the first 5 didn't give JMU any respect. If your doing ALL TIME, then no we should not be in, and I give the nod to the UD's of the land.

But last 10 years as previously mentioned? A national title, multiple playoff births, always (nearly) in the top 15. Sell out crowds, when I was there we lost TWO home games the whole time (stupid last second WM 55yd FG, haha)

That depends on whether you're talking top 5 or top 10. Over the past ten years (i.e., '98 to '07; not including this upcoming season), JMU isn't quite in the top 5. In no order:
ASU
Montana
Delaware
Ga. Southern
UMass.
Each of those teams have either multiple national titles or multiple national title game appearances, which JMU lacks. Plus they've gone deeper into the playoffs more often. For 6 through 9, again in no order:
JMU
McNeese
Northern Iowa
Furman
Number 10 is a little tougher to determine. Perhaps Youngstown State. Perhaps Southern Illinois. Who else am I missing?

Besides, I haven't read any posters who haven't had JMU in the top 10 in the past 10 years. Few put them outside the top 10 overall, and those who don't have them close.

Where's the lack of respect? This seems like another case of "NOBODY SHOWED US NO R'SPECT. WE GONNA SHOCK DA WULD!"

[MSU_77]

I agree that McNeese cannot claim to be a top 5 all-time FCS team, but in the 36 years as a Division 1 school has had pretty consistent (except for the mid-80s) success:

10 years (1972 -1981) as Division 1/1-A - 112 games, 78 wins, 3 bowl games

26 years (1982 - present) as Division 1-AA/FCS - 308 games, 188 wins, 24 playoff games, 2 NC runner-up

[89Hen]

But last 10 years as previously mentioned? A national title, multiple playoff births, always (nearly) in the top 15. Sell out crowds, when I was there we lost TWO home games the whole time (stupid last second WM 55yd FG, haha)
There are several teams teams that can boast the same. However, sellouts in H'burg have only occurred in the last few years (2003 you were 75.54% capacity). xpeacex

[mcveyrl]

There are several teams teams that can boast the same. However, sellouts in H'burg have only occurred in the last few years (2003 you were 75.54% capacity). xpeacex

Yea, all those stats you gave JMU DUUUUKES was the last 5 years. As an '01 alum, I can tell you that the preceding five years were a far cry from where we are now.

[EmeryZach]

Harvard
Yale
Delaware
Montana
Georgia Southern

[Tribe4SF]

Sell out crowds, when I was there we lost TWO home games the whole time (stupid last second WM 55yd FG, haha)

Actually it was 48 yards, and was preceded by that stupid drive that Lang Campbell engineered to set it up.xthumbsupx

Revenge came the following year when JMU converted a truly stupid FG on the last play to beat the Tribe by 1 in Williamsburg. Remember that line drive?xbawlingx

[Chi Panther]

I'd have to 1) come up with reasonable criteria and 2) do some research but my impression is that McNeese has been on the borderline between being and not being a top 10 program over the past 10 years. Another program I think could be a top 10 program over the past 10 years in spite of never winning a national title is Northern Iowa.

What's frustrating is believing McNeese has had at least four teams good enough to have a legitimate shot at winning it all, 1995, 1997, 1998, and 2002, and getting zero. Particularly frustrating were the one point loss to Youngstown State in 1997 and the blowout in 2002 at the hands of a team the Cowboys beat 38-13 earlier in the season.

Northern Iowa's had some frustrations too. One I always found sad is that they didn't make the playoffs in 1997 in spite of having finished ahead of Youngstown State in the Gateway standings and beating the Penguins head to head. Northern Iowa finished 7-4 thanks to nonconference losses at Iowa, at 10-1 McNeese, and at 10-1 Cal Poly. Their other loss at that point was to 10-1 Gateway champ Western Illinois.

That, to me, was a team that probably would've had a shot at the national title if it could've gotten into the tournament but didn't even get a shot. As the second place Gateway finisher it sat it out because of a brutal non conference slate while the third place team got in and won the whole thing.

Thanks for the memories....

That 97 team had WR Mike Furrey, WR Eddie Berlin, TE Ryan Hannam, OC Brad Meester, and CB Tyree Talton. All NFL players.

Additionally, that McNeese game wasn't played in the UNI-Dome (which is weird to think about)...The WIU game was lossed on a botched Extra Point Snap and returned for 2 pts by WIU....xbawlingx

[Mountain Panther]

Thanks for the memories....

That 97 team had WR Mike Furrey, WR Eddie Berlin, TE Ryan Hannam, OC Brad Meester, and CB Tyree Talton. All NFL players.

Additionally, that McNeese game wasn't played in the UNI-Dome (which is weird to think about)...The WIU game was lossed on a botched Extra Point Snap and returned for 2 pts by WIU....xbawlingx

xoutofrepx

[SteelCurtain]

Who do people think the top five FCS programs are? I don't mean who has the best team this year, but rather who has the best football program/tradition. Perhaps I'm a homer with the inclusion of NDSU but our DII history and the strong FCS start combined with a lack of a fifth traditional FCS standout caused me to include them.

Georgia Southern
Appy
Montana
Delaware
NDSU

Gully, we have a great football tradition, but to include us in a poll like this insults every other FCS team. We have to earn it first. Maybe in 5-10 years if we are lucky we could be included on this list..

My top five would be
App ST.
YSU
GSU
Montana
UNI

[JALMOND]

Back in 1976 when I first followed what eventually turned into I-AA and then FCS, the top five schools that were talked up quite a bit were...

1. Georgia Southern
2. Delaware
3. McNeese State
4. Eastern Kentucky
5. Montana State

Nowadays you could probably replace EKU and MSU with Montana and one other team (Youngstown or Appalachian State maybe), but the top three would stay the same.

[GoGuins]

I believe Youngstown State should be included.

I don't, only one playoff appearance since 2000

[FormerPokeCenter]

Back in 1976 when I first followed what eventually turned into I-AA and then FCS, the top five schools that were talked up quite a bit were...

1. Georgia Southern
2. Delaware
3. McNeese State
4. Eastern Kentucky
5. Montana State

Nowadays you could probably replace EKU and MSU with Montana and one other team (Youngstown or Appalachian State maybe), but the top three would stay the same.


That's odd....In 1976, McNeese was playing Tulsa in the inaugural Independence Bowl, (which they appeared in twice more, in 1979 and 1980, against Syracuse and Southern Mississippi, respectively) and was getting nods in the UPI and AP final polls...

In 1976, Georgia Southern was in it's 34th year of NOT playing football, since the Eagles didn't revive the sport in Statesboro until 1982 and didn't win it's first National Title until 1985...

Perhaps you meant 1996?

[appfan2008]

Back in 1976 when I first followed what eventually turned into I-AA and then FCS, the top five schools that were talked up quite a bit were...

1. Georgia Southern
2. Delaware
3. McNeese State
4. Eastern Kentucky
5. Montana State

Nowadays you could probably replace EKU and MSU with Montana and one other team (Youngstown or Appalachian State maybe), but the top three would stay the same.

you would have to include asu and ysu with 3 and 4 titles respectively over mcneese who has one (i believe) or delaware who has one (i believe)

[MSU_77]

Back in 1976 when I first followed what eventually turned into I-AA and then FCS, the top five schools that were talked up quite a bit were...

1. Georgia Southern
2. Delaware
3. McNeese State
4. Eastern Kentucky
5. Montana State

Nowadays you could probably replace EKU and MSU with Montana and one other team (Youngstown or Appalachian State maybe), but the top three would stay the same.

In 1976, McNeese was in the division now known as 1-A and did not join 1-AA until 1982.

[DrG]

Thank God there's only nine days 'til we start playing real football.xrolleyesx

[IndianaAppMan]

Thank God there's only nine days 'til we start playing real football.xrolleyesx

Seven days from now, Wake Forest plays Baylor on FSN. For most of us, that's probably not going to be appealing. For those who watch, it will either help relieve the itch for football that's been brewing since January, or it will flare it up even more for the games we really want to see next Saturday.

[appfan2008]

Seven days from now, Wake Forest plays Baylor on FSN. For most of us, that's probably not going to be appealing. For those who watch, it will either help relieve the itch for football that's been brewing since January, or it will flare it up even more for the games we really want to see next Saturday.

a lot of fcs games are played on next thursday should be something to behold for sure!!!

[IndianaAppMan]

a lot of fcs games are played on next thursday should be something to behold for sure!!!

which ones?

[Pete's Weekly]

I think this is too difficult, as there are too many cycles. Overall, I would not include App. St., but in 5 or 6 more years, I probably will. YSU did a little in the 80's & a little less in the 2000's ...then a great deal in the 90's. EKU did much in the 80's ...some in the 90's, then nothing since. GSU has been the most consistent.

Overall:

GSU
YSU
Montana
EKU
UMass, UNI or EIU (all tie and dominate without the plaque). I would probably go with EIU, because they have been there in two different conferences.

[OL FU]

I think this is too difficult, as there are too many cycles. Overall, I would not include App. St., but in 5 or 6 more years, I probably will. YSU did a little in the 80's & a little less in the 2000's ...then a great deal in the 90's. EKU did much in the 80's ...some in the 90's, then nothing since. GSU has been the most consistent.

Overall:

GSU
YSU
Montana
EKU
UMass, UNI or EIU (all tie and dominate without the plaque). I would probably go with EIU, because they have been there in two different conferences.


well I have heard it all nowxsmiley_wix

[89Hen]

I think this is too difficult, as there are too many cycles. Overall, I would not include App. St., but in 5 or 6 more years, I probably will. YSU did a little in the 80's & a little less in the 2000's ...then a great deal in the 90's. EKU did much in the 80's ...some in the 90's, then nothing since. GSU has been the most consistent.

Overall:

GSU
YSU
Montana
EKU
UMass, UNI or EIU (all tie and dominate without the plaque). I would probably go with EIU, because they have been there in two different conferences.
Well... if nothing else Pete, you are consistant. xnutsx

[Chi Panther]

I think this is too difficult, as there are too many cycles. Overall, I would not include App. St., but in 5 or 6 more years, I probably will. YSU did a little in the 80's & a little less in the 2000's ...then a great deal in the 90's. EKU did much in the 80's ...some in the 90's, then nothing since. GSU has been the most consistent.

Overall:

GSU
YSU
Montana
EKU
UMass, UNI or EIU (all tie and dominate without the plaque). I would probably go with EIU, because they have been there in two different conferences.


EIU....LOL, when was the last time the Blue Panthers beat the Purple Panthers....they couldn't even beat UNI at home with Tony Romo.....xnonono2x

[JMU DUUUKES]

which ones?


Miami and Charleston Southern next Thursday, ill be there

[IndianaAppMan]

I think this is too difficult, as there are too many cycles. Overall, I would not include App. St., but in 5 or 6 more years, I probably will. YSU did a little in the 80's & a little less in the 2000's ...then a great deal in the 90's. EKU did much in the 80's ...some in the 90's, then nothing since. GSU has been the most consistent.

Overall:

GSU
YSU
Montana
EKU
UMass, UNI or EIU (all tie and dominate without the plaque). I would probably go with EIU, because they have been there in two different conferences.

Let's see... Using similar terms, ASU did a little in the 80's, a little more in the 90's, and then a ton in the 2000's. Using that logic, how does ASU not get the nod over EKU?

[stevdock]

which ones?

We play Austin Peay in 169 hours, or one week and one hour from right now.

[APPALACHIANstate]

App...
Montana...
G.Southern...
Youngstown...
Delaware...

[ysubigred]

WOW this thread is out of control xnonox

Here's the top programs of all time by popularity/national known.

1. Harvard/Yale Who in the fokk don't know of these guys. xreadx

2. Grambling/Southern enough said xthumbsupx

3. Georgia Southern Six flags over Statesboro xrulesx

4. YSU 4 flags and the penalty flag. Learn it live it xcoffeex

5. Appy State. Two words BEAT MEATCHICKEN xbowx

Honerable mentions; EKU, Delaware, Montana and McNeese xpeacex

[mainejeff]

1. Montana
2. Appalachian State
3. Georgia Southern
4. Delaware
5. Northern Iowa
6. Youngstown State
7. James Madison
8. UMass
9. Furman
10. Montana State

[crunifan]

1. Montana
2. Appalachian State
3. Georgia Southern
4. Delaware
5. Northern Iowa
6. Youngstown State
7. James Madison
8. UMass
9. Furman
10. Montana State

As much as I would love to have UNI in the top 5, we don't deserve to be above Youngstown State after they have won 4 titles, even if we do beat them 7 years in a row...

I could see us challenge for 6 or 7th though!

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

My 2 $:

Georgia Southern
App State
Montana
Youngstown State
UMass/James Madison

Bison will be there on this list in a few short yrs. One of the best programs in all divisions.

8 National Championships > most of any school:D

[appfan2008]

My 2 $:

Georgia Southern
App State
Montana
Youngstown State
UMass/James Madison

Bison will be there on this list in a few short yrs. One of the best programs in all divisions.

8 National Championships > most of any school:D

a lot of confident bison fans mixed in this thread

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

a lot of confident bison fans mixed in this thread

xthumbsupx xthumbsupx xthumbsupx

[Hambone]

Found this little nugget - please note the top 2.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/50435-some-of-the-best-college-football-programs-in-the-country-are-not-in-division-i

[uofmman1122]

Found this little nugget - please note the top 2.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/50435-some-of-the-best-college-football-programs-in-the-country-are-not-in-division-iSame thing could be said for Carroll College in the 2000's. I doubt any team has been nearly as dominant.

[appstate38]

Top FCS programs.

Georgia Southern, Youngstown, App St. Montana- only because each program is flying multiple Championship banners. I know there are others but I can't think of them off hand, UD has 2 right???

[OL FU]

Top FCS programs.

Georgia Southern, Youngstown, App St. Montana- only because each program is flying multiple Championship banners. I know there are others but I can't think of them off hand, UD has 2 right???

Nope, but Eastern Kentucky does

[appfan2008]

I cant believe this thread is still alive... it is has been going for quite some time...

[Aho_Old_Guy]

I'm not gonna argue the top 5 FCS over the last 30+ years but will note that the reform school in the Greenville, SC, side ditches deserves an honorable mention in the top 'six or seven'.

I must have a touch of the Purple Fever. Is it an STD or more similar to Tourette's ??

Without the 3 NCs I don't feel Appalachian would be in the Top 10. There were some ugly times in the '70s and early '80s (quite a few at the hands of those Paladins - but we got even with them in 2002 - :) )

From a 'hysterical' standpoint hard to argue against Georgia Southern, Youngstown & Montana ...