Colonial dominating Championship Subdivision

[aust42]

By Brian Dale, USA Today

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/colonial/2008-08-06-colonial_N.htm

USA Today is comparing the CAA to the SEC in our respective divisions. Of course we all know that the CAA is the best 1AA Conference top to bottom. USA Today just confirmed that fact. xsmiley_wix

[furman94]

BULL!

[aust42]

BULL!

Statistics speak for themselves. Top to bottom the CAA is the strongest Conference by far. Since 2000, 10 out of 12 CAA teams have made the playoffs, Southern 4 out of 9. Next case.

[andy7171]

Statistics speak for themselves. Top to bottom the CAA is the strongest Conference by far. Since 2000, 10 out of 12 CAA teams have made the playoffs, Southern 4 out of 9. Next case.

ASU's three in a row is hard to ignore when fighting this fight. Just sayin'.

[introvertedGSUfan]

Statistics speak for themselves. Top to bottom the CAA is the strongest Conference by far. Since 2000, 10 out of 12 CAA teams have made the playoffs, Southern 4 out of 9. Next case.

This year there will be a number of CAA vs. SoCon matchups that will hopefully put an end to this argument.

Richmond @ Elon 8/30
Northeastern @ GSU 9/13
App State @ JMU 9/20
Delaware @ Furman 9/20


It is not a misnomer when people refer to football being the toughest and best, top to bottom, in the southeast United States, which is why I feel the SoCon is the strongest conference in FCS. More teams from the CAA may have made it to the playoffs, but how deep of a run did they have those years?

[boonegoon]

This year there will be a number of CAA vs. SoCon matchups that will hopefully put an end to this argument.

Richmond @ Elon 8/30
Northeastern @ GSU 9/13
App State @ JMU 9/20
Delaware @ Furman 9/20


It is not a misnomer when people refer to football being the toughest and best, top to bottom, in the southeast United States, which is why I feel the SoCon is the strongest conference in FCS. More teams from the CAA may have made it to the playoffs, but how deep of a run did they have those years?


I have to agree. Not that the CAA isn't tough but lots of playoff appearances does not make it the toughest conference. Lots of playoff bids means the selection committee feels that the CAA can bring in more money. App basically won the CAA last year having to play 3 teams in the playoffs.

[Black Saturday]

I have to agree. Not that the CAA isn't tough but lots of playoff appearances does not make it the toughest conference. Lots of playoff bids means the selection committee feels that the CAA can bring in more money. App basically won the CAA last year having to play 3 teams in the playoffs.

And tell 'em about 2006, when they beat JMU and UMass.

[SoCon48]

Statistics speak for themselves. Top to bottom the CAA is the strongest Conference by far. Since 2000, 10 out of 12 CAA teams have made the playoffs, Southern 4 out of 9. Next case.

Looks like they could do a little better once in. Top to bottom doesn't mean much when they suk.

[introvertedGSUfan]

I have to agree. Not that the CAA isn't tough but lots of playoff appearances does not make it the toughest conference. Lots of playoff bids means the selection committee feels that the CAA can bring in more money. App basically won the CAA last year having to play 3 teams in the playoffs.

Oh certainly. I'm also not implying that the CAA falls greatly below the SoCon since I do feel that they're a very close second. However, as you just pointed out, they may have more playoff bids but that is only because the committee chose them over, say, another team from the SoCon that had an equal or better record. Case in point: UNH (7-4 [4-4]) picked over GSU who had a better conference record (7-4 [4-3]).

[danefan]

Oh certainly. I'm also not implying that the CAA falls greatly below the SoCon since I do feel that they're a very close second. However, as you just pointed out, they may have more playoff bids but that is only because the committee chose them over, say, another team from the SoCon that had an equal or better record. Case in point: UNH (7-4 [4-4]) picked over GSU who had a better conference record (7-4 [4-3]).

Bad choice of examples. GSU only had 6 DI wins. UNH had a better season.

[Reign of Terrier]

I have to agree. Not that the CAA isn't tough but lots of playoff appearances does not make it the toughest conference. Lots of playoff bids means the selection committee feels that the CAA can bring in more money. App basically won the CAA last year having to play 3 teams in the playoffs.

1 by the skin of their teeth the other 2 by blowout.

The reason the Socon hasn't made as many playoff trips in the past ten years is because there's always been a gap between the top 4 and the bottom 4. Now there's only 2 or 3 teams that probably don't have the talent to make the playoffs. Expect the socon playoff numbers to change in the future.

[Reign of Terrier]

Looks like they could do a little better once in. Top to bottom doesn't mean much when they suk.

4 of 8 this Samford's first year.

[Reign of Terrier]

Statistics speak for themselves. Top to bottom the CAA is the strongest Conference by far. Since 2000, 10 out of 12 CAA teams have made the playoffs, Southern 4 out of 9. Next case.

4 of 8 this is samford's first year

[89Hen]

More teams from the CAA may have made it to the playoffs, but how deep of a run did they have those years?

Looks like they could do a little better once in. Top to bottom doesn't mean much when they suk.
xeyebrowx 2 National Champs and 2 Runner-ups in the last 5 years... three different teams. I guess that's not very deep.

[citdog]

HITLER WAS RIGHT...."THE BIG LIE" STILL WORKS......

[introvertedGSUfan]

xeyebrowx 2 National Champs and 2 Runner-ups in the last 5 years... three different teams. I guess that's not very deep.

Edit: I thought you were referring to the initial 10 year period mentioned in the OP.

[Reign of Terrier]

Next to the SoCon's 4 national championships and 1 runner up in that stretch. :D

Not to mention the quickly rising powers of Elon, Wofford, and the citadel who could steal a national title in the next few years.

[89Hen]

Next to the SoCon's 4 national championships and 1 runner up in that stretch. :D
xconfusedx 2+4=5?

3 NC's and no runner-ups, all by one team.

[introvertedGSUfan]

xconfusedx 2+4=5?

3 NC's and no runner-ups, all by one team.

Please refer to my edit. xrolleyesx

[Reign of Terrier]

xconfusedx 2+4=5?

3 NC's and no runner-ups, all by one team.

In '03 Wofford lost to Deleware in the semis. we played better than the team in the championship, you could give us .5 a runner up?:D

[ChickenMan]

Over the last 10 years the SoCon the CAA/A10 have both won 38 playoff games... but in terms of overall strength the CAA has demonstrated far more balance...


ASU - GSU - Furman have 35 of the SoCon's last 38 playoff wins over the past 10 seasons.. that's over 92%

ASU & GSU combine for 31 of the 38.. over 81%



compare that to the CAA where the top three UD - UMass - JMU have 23 of the CAA's last 38 wins... 60%


UD & UMass combine for 19 of 38 wins... 50%

the stats make it very obvious that there is much more competitive balance in the CAA than in the SoCon

[89Hen]

Please refer to my edit. xrolleyesx
NP. Both conferences have a LOT to be proud of.

[89Hen]

In '03 Wofford lost to Deleware in the semis. we played better than the team in the championship, you could give us .5 a runner up?:D
I can, but then you'd have to give William and Mary a 0.5 too. xsmiley_wix

[Reign of Terrier]

I can, but then you'd have to give William and Mary a 0.5 too. xsmiley_wix

Well if I remember correctly Wofford lost 24-9. Colgate got spanked 40-0. We got the postseason ranking of #2 because people felt we would probably make it to the championship if we were in the other bracket (hence .5 runner up).

[Eaglesrus]

Over the last 10 years the SoCon the CAA/A10 have both won 38 playoff games... but in terms of overall strength the CAA has demonstrated far more balance...


ASU - GSU - Furman have 35 of the SoCon's last 38 playoff wins over the past 10 seasons.. that's over 92%

ASU & GSU combine for 31 of the 38.. over 81%



compare that to the CAA where the top three UD - UMass - JMU have 23 of the CAA's last 38 wins... 60%


UD & UMass combine for 19 of 38 wins... 50%

the stats make it very obvious that there is much more competitive balance in the CAA than in the SoCon

On the other hand, the CAA/A10 had more teams than the SoCon during that time, some years as many as four more, but only has the same number of playoff wins. That would seem to me to be an indication of more strength in the SoCon.

[UNHWildCats]

ASU's three in a row is hard to ignore when fighting this fight. Just sayin'.
So one teams sucess makes the whole conference great?

I think the point made here above is that the CAA's sucess goes from top to bottom (or near bottom) with a higher percentage of teams having sucess than for the SoCon.

[ChickenMan]

On the other hand, the CAA/A10 had more teams than the SoCon during that time, some years as many as four more, but only has the same number of playoff wins. That would seem to me to be an indication of more strength in the SoCon.



the trouble with that claim is that all the SoCon's strength has been strictly limited to two or three schools and two or three schools may make for a few strong teams... but NOT for a strong conference... ;)

[aust42]

[QUOTE=introvertedGSUfan;1048593]This year there will be a number of CAA vs. SoCon matchups that will hopefully put an end to this argument.

Richmond @ Elon 8/30
Northeastern @ GSU 9/13
App State @ JMU 9/20
Delaware @ Furman 9/20

Ditto. I think we can resume this conversation late September. Those are some good matchups.

[89Hen]

Well if I remember correctly Wofford lost 24-9. Colgate got spanked 40-0. We got the postseason ranking of #2 because people felt we would probably make it to the championship if we were in the other bracket (hence .5 runner up).
Acutally the SN Poll had you at #2 heading into the playoffs but #3 after...

2003 Sports Network/CSTV I-AA Poll - Final
Team (First-place votes) 2003 Record Points Previous Rank
1. Delaware Blue Hens (58) 15-1 1,450 3
2. Colgate Raiders 15-1 1,375 6
3. Wofford Terriers 12-2 1,332 2
4. Florida Atlantic Owls 11-3 1,179 13
5. Northern Iowa Panthers 10-3 1,113 7
6. Western Illinois Leathernecks 9-4 1,099 10
7. Western Kentucky Hilltoppers 9-4 1,019 9
8. McNeese State Cowboys 10-2 983 1
9. Southern Illinois Salukis 10-2 944 4
10. Northern Arizona Lumberjacks 9-4 919 16
11. Massachusetts Minutemen 10-3 892 5
12. Penn Quakers 10-0 874 8
13. Southern Jaguars 12-1 782 15
14. Montana Grizzlies 9-4 781 11
15. Bethune-Cookman Wildcats 9-3 584 14
16. North Carolina A&T Aggies 10-3 522 18
17. Grambling State Tigers 9-3 515 12
18. Jacksonville State Gamecocks 8-4 434 17
19. Northern Colorado Bears 9-2 334 19
20. Northeastern Huskies 8-4 299 20
21. Montana State Bobcats 7-6 264 24
22. Idaho State Bengals 8-4 261 21
23. Lehigh Mountain Hawks 8-3 203 25
24. Georgia Southern Eagles 7-4 198 22
25. Villanova Wildcats 7-4 185 23

The Semifinal game really wasn't as close as some would make it out to be.

[89Hen]

Well if I remember correctly Wofford lost 24-9. Colgate got spanked 40-0. We got the postseason ranking of #2 because people felt we would probably make it to the championship if we were in the other bracket (hence .5 runner up).
Acutally the SN Poll had you at #2 heading into the playoffs but #3 after...

2003 Sports Network/CSTV I-AA Poll - Final
Team (First-place votes) 2003 Record Points Previous Rank
1. Delaware Blue Hens (58) 15-1 1,450 3
2. Colgate Raiders 15-1 1,375 6
3. Wofford Terriers 12-2 1,332 2
4. Florida Atlantic Owls 11-3 1,179 13
5. Northern Iowa Panthers 10-3 1,113 7
6. Western Illinois Leathernecks 9-4 1,099 10
7. Western Kentucky Hilltoppers 9-4 1,019 9
8. McNeese State Cowboys 10-2 983 1
9. Southern Illinois Salukis 10-2 944 4
10. Northern Arizona Lumberjacks 9-4 919 16
11. Massachusetts Minutemen 10-3 892 5
12. Penn Quakers 10-0 874 8
13. Southern Jaguars 12-1 782 15
14. Montana Grizzlies 9-4 781 11
15. Bethune-Cookman Wildcats 9-3 584 14
16. North Carolina A&T Aggies 10-3 522 18
17. Grambling State Tigers 9-3 515 12
18. Jacksonville State Gamecocks 8-4 434 17
19. Northern Colorado Bears 9-2 334 19
20. Northeastern Huskies 8-4 299 20
21. Montana State Bobcats 7-6 264 24
22. Idaho State Bengals 8-4 261 21
23. Lehigh Mountain Hawks 8-3 203 25
24. Georgia Southern Eagles 7-4 198 22
25. Villanova Wildcats 7-4 185 23

The Semifinal game really wasn't as close as some would make it out to be.

[89Hen]

Well if I remember correctly Wofford lost 24-9. Colgate got spanked 40-0. We got the postseason ranking of #2 because people felt we would probably make it to the championship if we were in the other bracket (hence .5 runner up).
Acutally the SN Poll had you at #2 heading into the playoffs but #3 after...

2003 Sports Network/CSTV I-AA Poll - Final
Team (First-place votes) 2003 Record Points Previous Rank
1. Delaware Blue Hens (58) 15-1 1,450 3
2. Colgate Raiders 15-1 1,375 6
3. Wofford Terriers 12-2 1,332 2
4. Florida Atlantic Owls 11-3 1,179 13
5. Northern Iowa Panthers 10-3 1,113 7
6. Western Illinois Leathernecks 9-4 1,099 10
7. Western Kentucky Hilltoppers 9-4 1,019 9
8. McNeese State Cowboys 10-2 983 1
9. Southern Illinois Salukis 10-2 944 4
10. Northern Arizona Lumberjacks 9-4 919 16
11. Massachusetts Minutemen 10-3 892 5
12. Penn Quakers 10-0 874 8
13. Southern Jaguars 12-1 782 15
14. Montana Grizzlies 9-4 781 11
15. Bethune-Cookman Wildcats 9-3 584 14
16. North Carolina A&T Aggies 10-3 522 18
17. Grambling State Tigers 9-3 515 12
18. Jacksonville State Gamecocks 8-4 434 17
19. Northern Colorado Bears 9-2 334 19
20. Northeastern Huskies 8-4 299 20
21. Montana State Bobcats 7-6 264 24
22. Idaho State Bengals 8-4 261 21
23. Lehigh Mountain Hawks 8-3 203 25
24. Georgia Southern Eagles 7-4 198 22
25. Villanova Wildcats 7-4 185 23

The Semifinal game really wasn't as close as some would make it out to be.

[Touchdown Yosef]

So one teams sucess makes the whole conference great?

I think the point made here above is that the CAA's sucess goes from top to bottom (or near bottom) with a higher percentage of teams having sucess than for the SoCon.

In the last three years the only conferences that hold wins over Appalachian are the SEC, ACC, Big 12, and Socon. Everyone has had a crack but only the Socon has managed a win...

I didn't really like the article, it makes valid points but fails to make any relevant comparison to any competitor including the Gateway. I believe that the CAA is the best conference from top to bottom but I feel that is as much a product of its size as it is excellent football teams. I am not shorting the CAA it is full of excellent teams that have proven success but it is essentially 2 conferences which I think it should be anyway. It is a tough argument to sell for any side but fun to make and I guess it has been a few months since we last got into it.

You can't change my opinion that the Socon is the best conference in FCS but I like the old argument that historically the CAA produces a greater quantity of NC contenders but the Socon's best is more often the Nation's best.

[introvertedGSUfan]

In the last three years the only conferences that hold wins over Appalachian are the SEC, ACC, Big 12, and Socon. Everyone has had a crack but only the Socon has managed a win...

I didn't really like the article, it makes valid points but fails to make any relevant comparison to any competitor including the Gateway. I believe that the CAA is the best conference from top to bottom but I feel that is as much a product of its size as it is excellent football teams. I am not shorting the CAA it is full of excellent teams that have proven success but it is essentially 2 conferences which I think it should be anyway. It is a tough argument to sell for any side but fun to make and I guess it has been a few months since we last got into it.

You can't change my opinion that the Socon is the best conference in FCS but I like the old argument that historically the CAA produces a greater quantity of NC contenders but the Socon's best is more often the Nation's best.

I forgot to make this same point. The only teams to beat the three-peat Appalachian State team are only those from the SoCon.

[ChickenMan]

In the last three years the only conferences that hold wins over Appalachian are the SEC, ACC, Big 12, and Socon. Everyone has had a crack but only the Socon has managed a win...

I didn't really like the article, it makes valid points but fails to make any relevant comparison to any competitor including the Gateway. I believe that the CAA is the best conference from top to bottom but I feel that is as much a product of its size as it is excellent football teams. I am not shorting the CAA it is full of excellent teams that have proven success but it is essentially 2 conferences which I think it should be anyway. It is a tough argument to sell for any side but fun to make and I guess it has been a few months since we last got into it.

You can't change my opinion that the Socon is the best conference in FCS but I like the old argument that historically the CAA produces a greater quantity of NC contenders but the Socon's best is more often the Nation's best.


last year the SoCon was a very strong overall league.. due to improvement by Elon and the Citadel.. but in previous years there were just too many automatic Ws to be found among the bottom half of the SoCon for it to be considered the top FCS conference. If Elon and the Citadel can continue their upward trend the SoCon may very well be the top league.. we will see... ;)

[UNHWildCats]

In the last three years the only conferences that hold wins over Appalachian are the SEC, ACC, Big 12, and Socon. Everyone has had a crack but only the Socon has managed a win...

I didn't really like the article, it makes valid points but fails to make any relevant comparison to any competitor including the Gateway. I believe that the CAA is the best conference from top to bottom but I feel that is as much a product of its size as it is excellent football teams. I am not shorting the CAA it is full of excellent teams that have proven success but it is essentially 2 conferences which I think it should be anyway. It is a tough argument to sell for any side but fun to make and I guess it has been a few months since we last got into it.

You can't change my opinion that the Socon is the best conference in FCS but I like the old argument that historically the CAA produces a greater quantity of NC contenders but the Socon's best is more often the Nation's best.


I forgot to make this same point. The only teams to beat the three-peat Appalachian State team are only those from the SoCon.
The SoCon gets 7 cracks at Appy each year so they have a lot more opportunities to beat them, not to mention the deeper scouting reports they have on the team since they play them each year.

[ChickenMan]

I forgot to make this same point. The only teams to beat the three-peat Appalachian State team are only those from the SoCon.

but don't forget.. unlike the rest of the FCS.. they get 7 shots at them each year...

[Eaglesrus]

the trouble with that claim is that all the SoCon's strength has been strictly limited to two or three schools and two or three schools may make for a few strong teams... but NOT for a strong conference... ;)

Okay, but you say 3 CAA/A10 teams won 23 of 38, so my question is how many other teams were the 15 remaining wins spread amongst? Serious question, haven't read the article and don't know if this is discussed in it. Another way of stating my question; half our teams had all the playoff wins, what percentage of CAA/A10 teams were involved in your 38 total wins? Could be 100% for all I know, but I'm curious.

[ChickenMan]

Okay, but you say 3 CAA/A10 teams won 23 of 38, so my question is how many other teams were the 15 remaining wins spread amongst?

Richmond - 4
UNH - 3
Villanova - 2
Hofstra - 2
Maine - 2
W&M - 2

[UNHWildCats]

Delaware - 10
Massachusetts - 9
James Madison - 4
Richmond - 4
New Hampshire - 3
Maine - 2
Hofstra - 2
Willanova - 2
William & Mary - 2

[introvertedGSUfan]

The SoCon may have seven chances, but the best teams from each conference have opportunities in the playoffs (the CAA had three chances this past year and couldn't do it).

[89Hen]

It is a tough argument to sell for any side but fun to make
xnodx xthumbsupx

[Saluki Fan in FL]

Wait a minute... what about the Missouri Valley? It's been a while since I've been on this board, but let's be realistic. The CAA has been the best conference for quite a while, but that may soon change. The addition of North Dakota State and South Dakota State to the MO Valley may topple the scales a bit. Conferences, as I see it, are judged from top to bottom. It's a toss-up between CAA and MO Valley now. Not the SoCon. Sorry SoCon friends. Maybe back in the day... and you still have my great respect, but let's be realistic. Judge things as they are today. Appy State is s no brainer, but other teams in the SoConn are up and down.

MO Valley-
Southern Illinois (AGS Preseason #12)
Western Illinois
Illinois State
Youngstown State (AGS Preseason #13)
Missouri State
Northern Iowa (AGS Preseason#5)
North Dakota State (AGS Preseason #4)
South Dakota State (AGS Preseason #18)
Indiana State

Maybe one or two weak ones in the whole lot. Otherwise from top to bottom very good strength. 5 out of the 9 are ranked top 25. By the way... no way should Western Illinois not be ranked and Eastern Illinois is??? I didn't understand that one.

[ChickenMan]

Playoff wins (last 10 years) by the other four SoCon schools..

WCU - 0
Citadel - 0
UTC - 0
Elon - 0

;)

[BDKJMU]

Take away App State the last 3 seasons and the So-Con is a mediocre conference.

[aust42]

We can all agree that the CAA and Southern are arguably two of the best 1AA Conferences. The Gateway is also in the same discussion. Fact is those three conferences are consistently ranked ahead of the 1A Sunbelt, & MAC Conferences, per the Sagarin Ratings. Last year the Southern Conf was also ranked ahead of 1A Conf USA. Of the four final teams in the 1AA playoffs last year, Ap State beat Michigan, Delaware beat Navy, Southern Illinois beat Northern Illinois and Northern Iowa beat Iowa State. There is quality football being played in those Conferences. That's what I like to point out to people who know little about 1AA/FCS football.

[Saluki Fan in FL]

We can all agree that the CAA and Southern are arguably two of the best 1AA Conferences. The Gateway is also in the same discussion. Fact is those three conferences are consistently ranked ahead of the 1A Sunbelt, & MAC Conferences, per the Sagarin Ratings. Last year the Southern Conf was also ranked ahead of 1A Conf USA. Of the four final teams in the 1AA playoffs last year, Ap State beat Michigan, Delaware beat Navy, Southern Illinois beat Northern Illinois and Northern Iowa beat Iowa State. There is quality football being played in those Conferences. That's what I like to point out to people who know little about 1AA/FCS football.

Cosign (but we're the Missouri Valley Football Conference now not the Gateway)

[89Hen]

Wait a minute...
Wondered when a Gateway fan was going to chime in. :p

[Saluki Fan in FL]

Wondered when a Gateway fan was going to chime in. :p

Don't start Henxsmiley_wix

[elon77]

I can' wait for August 30, Elon vs Richmond, it's going to be soooooo much fun. What a way to continue this discussion on the field.

[aust42]

Predictions?

Richmond 28 Elon 10 8/30
GSU 27 Northeastern 17 9/13
JMU 31 App State 30 9/20
Delaware 20 Furman 14 9/20

[bluehenbillk]

There's little question the CAA is the best league. ASU has the best team, sure, but you could say the 2nd place SoCon team would be much lower than that in the CAA. The soCon has always been a really top-heavy league, much more so than the CAA.

[elon77]

Predictions?

Richmond 28 Elon 10 8/30
GSU 27 Northeastern 17 9/13
JMU 31 App State 30 9/20
Delaware 20 Furman 14 9/20

Whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, are you saying that the same offensive team minus 1 wide receiver, that put 32 points on ASU last year is only going to put up 10 points on richmond this year? What have you been sniffing? Also, Furman is probably going to surprise alot of people this year, you might turn that score around.xnonox

[furman94]

The reason the CAA has so many teams in is because they have more teams than the Socon, and because the Socon beats up on each other the whole year, causing only a few to make it into the dance :D .

Thanks 77! Furman shouldn't suprise people this year, our foes will over look us but should just be aware of what's about to hit um... xcoolx

Richmond 21 Elon 24 8/30 xcoolx
GSU 35 Northeastern 10 9/13 xthumbsupx
JMU 31 App State 30 9/20 (xwhistlex shh! xcoolx )
Delaware 10 Furman 14 9/20 in 2 OT xthumbsupx xreadx

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

The Northeastern/Georgia Southern game shouldn't even be considered as some sort of 'bellweather'. That would be the equivalent of a Villanova versus Samford game being used in this discussion.

The other 3 games will be worth watching.

[Saluki Fan in FL]

MO Valley-
Southern Illinois (AGS Preseason #12)
Western Illinois
Illinois State
Youngstown State (AGS Preseason #13)
Missouri State
Northern Iowa (AGS Preseason#5)
North Dakota State (AGS Preseason #4)
South Dakota State (AGS Preseason #18)
Indiana State
5 out of 9 teams ranked, 2 in the top 10, 2 in the top 5

CAA-
Delaware (AGS Preseason #11)
Hofstra
James Madison (AGS Preseason #2)
Maine
UMASS (AGS Preseason #6)
New Hampshire (AGS Preseason #20)
Northeastern
Rhode Island
Richmond (AGS Preseason #3)
Towson
Villanova (AGS Preseason #17)
William and Mary
6 out of 12 teams ranked, 3 in the top 10, 2 in the top 5

SoConn-
Appy State (AGS Preseason #1)
UT Chattanooga
The Citadel (AGS Preseason #21)
Elon (AGS Preseason #13)
Furman (AGS Preseaon #25)
GA Southern (AGS Prreseason #16)
Samford
Western Carolina
Wofford
5 out of 9 teams ranked, 1 in the top 10, 1 in the top 5

That's 16 teams from just the three. Over half of the Mo Valley teams and over half of the SoConn teams are ranked. Half of the CAA is ranked. However, of those ranked in the top 5, 2 are from the Mo Valley, 2 are from the CAA. Only 1 team from the SoConn is even in the top 10. That's 2 out of 9 teams in the Valley, 2 out of 12 teams in the CAA. You do the math.

Again, with the addition of the Dakotas... times, they are a changin'!!xsmiley_wix

[furman94]

I'm sorry, take this any way you like, but

SOUTHERN PRIDE!

We have the best EVERYTHING, including Football!

[Eaglesrus]

Playoff wins (last 10 years) by the other four SoCon schools..

WCU - 0
Citadel - 0
UTC - 0
Elon - 0

;)

Not that it matters in this conversation, but I got curious and went back to see how many of the 38 each of the four SoCon teams won in the last 10 years. This is what i found:

App State - 15
Furman - 6
GSU - 15
Wofford - 3

That's 39 rather than 38. Didn't check the CAA/A10 numbers.

[appstate38]

Whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, are you saying that the same offensive team minus 1 wide receiver, that put 32 points on ASU last year is only going to put up 10 points on richmond this year? What have you been sniffing? Also, Furman is probably going to surprise alot of people this year, you might turn that score around.xnonox


Predictions?

Richmond 28 Elon 10 8/30
GSU 27 Northeastern 17 9/13
JMU 31 App State 30 9/20
Delaware 20 Furman 14 9/20

I will tend to agree with 77 on this one. If anything the score would be higher I think. I would like to point out that JMU's defense is not the same group they had last year, where as ASU front group is more experienced. Close game yes, but hoping we end up on top.

[BlueHen86]

The reason the CAA has so many teams in is because they have more teams than the Socon, and because the Socon beats up on each other the whole year, causing only a few to make it into the dance :D .

Thanks 77! Furman shouldn't suprise people this year, our foes will over look us but should just be aware of what's about to hit um... xcoolx

Richmond 21 Elon 24 8/30 xcoolx
GSU 35 Northeastern 10 9/13 xthumbsupx
JMU 31 App State 30 9/20 (xwhistlex shh! xcoolx )
Delaware 10 Furman 14 9/20 in 2 OT xthumbsupx xreadx
If that game goes into overtime, that won't be the final score, unless you think Delaware will kick a field goal in OT while trailing 14 - 7.xconfusedx

[UNHWildCats]

If that game goes into overtime, that won't be the final score, unless you think Delaware will kick a field goal in OT while trailing 14 - 7.xconfusedx
Del could get the ball first.

[furman94]

Change the score what ever way you like, but we start slow, and from what I've heard so do ya'll, so I predict a low scoring game. Knowing how FU plays against the CAA, it will be close!

[UNHWildCats]

Del could get the ball first.
'DOH that wiould then mean the other team wouldnt kick an XP :p damn it. lol ur right :p

[Col Hogan]

A man walks into a bar...

There's a horrible noise coming from the back room...

The man asks the bartender what's going on back there...

The bartender answers "Its almost college football season"...

The man says, "yea, what does that have to do with that racket???"

The bartender answers "It happens about this time each year...folks from the CAA and SOCON fight over which conference is the best..."

The man asks "Each year...haven't they figured it out yet???"

Bartender says "Nah, they piss and moan, throw out all kind of facts and figures...and in the end they never agree...but its good for business because they sure can consume some alcohol..."

IS IT FOOTBALL SEASON YET???

xlmaox xlmaox xlmaox xlmaox

[89Hen]

We really won't know how relevant these games are until the end of the year. What if X beat Y and goes 10-1 while Y goes 6-6?

[Skjellyfetti]

It's hard to argue which conference is better. I'm not going to say the Southern Conference is clearly better than the CAA.

However... you have to admit... the CAA does not "Dominate" FCS. xtwocentsx

[BlueHen86]

It's hard to argue which conference is better. I'm not going to say the Southern Conference is clearly better than the CAA.

However... you have to admit... the CAA does not "Dominate" FCS. xtwocentsx

I would agree with you there.
I hate this argument, it's irrelevant. Both conferences are strong and usually get multiple bids. To me that is all that matters.

[UNHWildCats]

we can all agree on one thing I bet... its great that Montana and the Big Sky dont for one second even enter the discussion :p

[KAUMASS]

Curiosity got the best of me..Here are Sagarian's power conference rankings for the last 10 seasons.

2007-SoCon,Colonial,Gateway, Great West
2006-Great West, A-10, Gateway, Big Sky
2005-Gateway, Big Sky, Great West,SoCon
2004-A-10, Great West, Big Sky,Southland
2003-Gateway, Big Sky, A-10,Southland
2002-Gateway, A-10, Big Sky,Southland
2001-A-10, Southland, Big Sky,SoCon
2000-Big Sky, SoCon, A-10,Gateway
1999-Gateway, A-10, SoCon,Big Sky
1998-A-10,Gateway, Southland, Big Sky

Interesting rankings...you can twist it any way you want as it can become political by what data you use... This team had more playoff wins, this conference has more National titles, this conference beat this conference head to head more often. This conference has had more teams in the playoffs. Bottom line for me is that these conferences are all excellent and any team from any conference can beat anybody on ANY GIVEN SATURDAY.

Who is the greatest QB in NFL history? Do you use stats or super bowl wins? It's hard to declare who the best conference is just like it is hard to say who the best QB is.

[GeeWiz]

The Northeastern/Georgia Southern game shouldn't even be considered as some sort of 'bellweather'. That would be the equivalent of a Villanova versus Samford game being used in this discussion.

The other 3 games will be worth watching.

xlolx

Whatever.

Let's see how good Richmond is w/o Clausen.

[CharlestonAppFan]

So, here's my take on things:

FACTORS:
1) The assumption that the SEC is the best conference in FBS (highly debatable by many folks but for general purposes I'll assume this). My definition of this is due to the national champions coming out of that conference in the past few years....
2) Which teams have won it in the last 10 years....LSU (twice), Florida, Tenneessee, ....xwhistlex..who else?(not counting Auburn due to some BCS thing) - 4 TOTAL CHAMPIONSHIPS - more than any other conference during that time span
3) Bowel games do not count because I believe the Big 10 has the SEC on wins (please correct me if I'm wrong)

COMPARISON
1) The assumption that the CAA is the best conference in FCS (again very highly debatable).
2) Teams that won the national championship from CAA.....Delaware, JMU, UMass - 3 TOTAL CHAMPIONSHIPS - NOT THE MOST DURING THAT TIME
3) Teams that won the national championship from SoCon.....App, Georgia Southern - 5 TOTAL CHAMPIONSHIPS - THE MOST IN EITHER DIVISION

So, my argument is based on why many believe that the SEC is the best conference in the land.....National Champions. Again, as I stated earlier, I don't think they have the edge on bowel games compared to other conferences (please someone review this...it's been a long day and I don't feel like checking xthumbsupx ).

My conclusion is that by comparing apples to apples, the SoCon is the best in FCS land, not the CAA. Otherwise, the Big 10 would have a say so in this argument by virtue of reaching the FBS championship game, and we all know that they almost never win. Sound familiar CAA? :D

[Mountaineer]

From the December 17, 2007 SoCon Weekly Press Release:

Conferences in the FCS Playoffs
Conference (First year) Overall Pct.
Southern (1982) 86-48 .652
Independent 3-2 .600
Gateway (1985) 45-39 .536
Big Sky (1979) 56-50 .528
Great West (2004) 1-1 .500
Southland (1982) 40-43 .482
Colonial Athletic (1978) 45-56 .446
Ohio Valley (1979) 24-41 .369
Patriot (1997) 7-13 .350
Mid-Eastern Athletic (1981) 6-20 .231
Southwestern Athletic (1978) 0-19 .000
Big South (2006) 0-1 .000

SoCon Teams vs. FCS Conferences in the Playoffs
Conference Overall Pct.
Southern 7-7 .500
Colonial Athletic 21-7 .750
Big Sky 10-9 .526
Big South 1-0 1.000
Gateway 13-6 .684
Independent 7-4 .636
Mid-Eastern Athletic 6-2 .750
Ohio Valley 8-4 .667
Patriot 3-0 1.000
Southland 7-7 .500
Southwestern Athletic 1-0 1.000
TOTAL 86-48 .642

xcoffeex xrulesx

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Here's the thing that people forget about in the Socon - CAA debate - OOC schedules. The SoCon's is much tougher. Many of the CAA OOC games are Patriot, Pioneer, NEC, and Ivy League teams. I'd take the Southland teams and the Big South teams over those any day. Let's use the OOC schedules from this past year as an example.


FBS games
Sub-DI games

SoCon 2007 OOC schedule

Alabama L
Arkansas L
Carson-Newman L
Charleston Southern x2 2-0
Clemson L
Coastal Carolina x2 2-0
Colorado State L
Eastern Kentucky L
Gardner Webb x2 2-0
Georgetown (KY) W
Georgia L
Hofstra L
Jacksonville State L
Lenoir-Rhyne W
Liberty W
Michigan W
North Carolina State L
Northern Arizona W
Presbyterian x2 2-0
South Dakota State W
South Florida L
Stony Brook W
VMI W
Webber International W
West Georiga W
West Virginia Wesleyan W
Western Kentucky L
Wisconsin L
Overall 19-13 (0.594)

CAA 2007 OOC schedule

Albany W
Army L
Boston College L
Brown W
Bucknell W
California Davis L
Centarl Connecticut St. W
Coastal Carolina W
Colgate x2 1-1
Connecticut L
Dartmouth W
Furman W
Fordham L
Holy Cross W
Iona W
Lehigh W
Liberty W
Marshall W
Maryland L
Monmouth x2 2-0
Morgan St. W
Navy W
North Carolina L
Northwestern L
Northwestern State W
Pennsylvania W
Stony Brook x3 2-1
Vanderbilt L
Virginia Tech L
VMI x2 2-0
West Chester W
overall 24-12 (0.667)

Sure the SoCon has more sub D-I games but given how the better teams in DII have done versus the FCS (see North Dakota versus UNI and Chadron State versus Montana State) I'd say the average DII isn't too far below a mid-level NEC or Ivy team. Also, you can clearly see that for this past season the FBS schedule of the SoCon is much tougher and has fewer winnable games. That also seems to be typical comparing SoCon and CAA OOC schedules.

[89Hen]

The SoCon's is much tougher.

SoCon 2007 OOC schedule
Carson-Newman L
Charleston Southern x2 2-0
Eastern Kentucky L
Gardner Webb x2 2-0
Georgetown (KY) W
Jacksonville State L
Lenoir-Rhyne W
Presbyterian x3 2-0
Stony Brook W
VMI W
Webber International W
West Georiga W
West Virginia Wesleyan W
xcoffeex

[aust42]

From the December 17, 2007 SoCon Weekly Press Release:

Conferences in the FCS Playoffs
Conference (First year) Overall Pct.
Southern (1982) 86-48 .652
Independent 3-2 .600
Gateway (1985) 45-39 .536
Big Sky (1979) 56-50 .528
Great West (2004) 1-1 .500
Southland (1982) 40-43 .482
Colonial Athletic (1978) 45-56 .446
Ohio Valley (1979) 24-41 .369
Patriot (1997) 7-13 .350
Mid-Eastern Athletic (1981) 6-20 .231
Southwestern Athletic (1978) 0-19 .000
Big South (2006) 0-1 .000

SoCon Teams vs. FCS Conferences in the Playoffs
Conference Overall Pct.
Southern 7-7 .500
Colonial Athletic 21-7 .750
Big Sky 10-9 .526
Big South 1-0 1.000
Gateway 13-6 .684
Independent 7-4 .636
Mid-Eastern Athletic 6-2 .750
Ohio Valley 8-4 .667
Patriot 3-0 1.000
Southland 7-7 .500
Southwestern Athletic 1-0 1.000
TOTAL 86-48 .642

xcoffeex xrulesx

Good stats. CAA has an overall .521 winning % against Southern Conference Teams.

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/atlantic10/vs_conf_byteam.php?confid=180

[Reign of Terrier]

Acutally the SN Poll had you at #2 heading into the playoffs but #3 after...

2003 Sports Network/CSTV I-AA Poll - Final
Team (First-place votes) 2003 Record Points Previous Rank
1. Delaware Blue Hens (58) 15-1 1,450 3
2. Colgate Raiders 15-1 1,375 6
3. Wofford Terriers 12-2 1,332 2
4. Florida Atlantic Owls 11-3 1,179 13
5. Northern Iowa Panthers 10-3 1,113 7
6. Western Illinois Leathernecks 9-4 1,099 10
7. Western Kentucky Hilltoppers 9-4 1,019 9
8. McNeese State Cowboys 10-2 983 1
9. Southern Illinois Salukis 10-2 944 4
10. Northern Arizona Lumberjacks 9-4 919 16
11. Massachusetts Minutemen 10-3 892 5
12. Penn Quakers 10-0 874 8
13. Southern Jaguars 12-1 782 15
14. Montana Grizzlies 9-4 781 11
15. Bethune-Cookman Wildcats 9-3 584 14
16. North Carolina A&T Aggies 10-3 522 18
17. Grambling State Tigers 9-3 515 12
18. Jacksonville State Gamecocks 8-4 434 17
19. Northern Colorado Bears 9-2 334 19
20. Northeastern Huskies 8-4 299 20
21. Montana State Bobcats 7-6 264 24
22. Idaho State Bengals 8-4 261 21
23. Lehigh Mountain Hawks 8-3 203 25
24. Georgia Southern Eagles 7-4 198 22
25. Villanova Wildcats 7-4 185 23

The Semifinal game really wasn't as close as some would make it out to be.

My mistake I heard something different. Yeah we didn't score a td until the last play of the game but we kept it closer than Colgate. that and we scoredxoopsx ....

[Reign of Terrier]

There's little question the CAA is the best league. ASU has the best team, sure, but you could say the 2nd place SoCon team would be much lower than that in the CAA. The soCon has always been a really top-heavy league, much more so than the CAA.

APP wasn't the best team in the Socon last year, Wofford was by way of tie-breakerxthumbsupx

[PhantomCAT]

Big Sky teams would stack up pretty darn good, against any one from the east. Problem is:MONEY. Not too many schools want (nor have) to pony up the cash to travel from coast to coast. um, MSU, Northern Ariz, Eastern Wash, Idaho St, and Weber St would all fair very well on a weekly basis with ANY conference from the east. Portland St and Sac State would do an ok job

[Saluki Fan in FL]

Are we debating who's got the strongest conference now, or taking a walk down memory lane?xcoolx

[BeauFoster]

My mother's sister's uncle's cousin's brother said that the SoCon was, far and away, the best. xsmiley_wix

Useless argument, we all know it. But, it makes for some decent conversation during down times.

[Reign of Terrier]

Are we debating who's got the strongest conference now, or taking a walk down memory lane?xcoolx

I joked about getting .5 of a runner up WAY earlier in the forum and didn't check back in until later.

[Hansel]

Big Sky teams would stack up pretty darn good, against any one from the east. Problem is:MONEY. Not too many schools want (nor have) to pony up the cash to travel from coast to coast. um, MSU, Northern Ariz, Eastern Wash, Idaho St, and Weber St would all fair very well on a weekly basis with ANY conference from the east. Portland St and Sac State would do an ok job

Idaho St, Weber and Sac xeyebrowx

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

It's hard to argue which conference is better. I'm not going to say the Southern Conference is clearly better than the CAA.

However... you have to admit... the CAA does not "Dominate" FCS. xtwocentsx

Don't forget that it was some scribe from a publication that rarely writes anything about FCS Football that made that statement. xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

Consider the source.

[Hansel]

Currently it is the CAA, SoCon, Missouri Valley and everyone else

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

I didn't realize there was a Northeastern fan on AGS to insult ... I am sorry! xpeacex

We are anxious to see how it works out with London. I think we'll be OK.



xlolx

Whatever.

Let's see how good Richmond is w/o Clausen.

[BlueHen86]

Are we debating who's got the strongest conference now, or taking a walk down memory lane?xcoolx

It's a stupid argument whenever you have it. The elimination games are more worth while.xrolleyesx

The idea is to win the NC. Delaware lost in the final game last year. The fact that the CAA had 5 playoffs teams is of no consolation to me.

[james_lawfirm]

The SoCon gets 7 cracks at Appy each year so they have a lot more opportunities to beat them, not to mention the deeper scouting reports they have on the team since they play them each year.


Oh, now that's turning a statistic on its head! Actually, last year alone, the CAA got 3 shots, JMU, Richmond, & Delaware! In order for ASU to give the CAA any more shots, it would have to join the CAA.

[james_lawfirm]

Predictions?

Richmond 28 Elon 10 8/30
GSU 27 Northeastern 17 9/13
JMU 31 App State 30 9/20
Delaware 20 Furman 14 9/20


My take is:

Rich: 28 Elon: 42
GaSo: 27 NE: 25
JMU: 20 ASU: 47
Del: 20 FU: 21

SoCon: 4 - CAA: 0

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

My take:

UR 31 - Elon 17
NE 5 - GSU 4
JMU 10 - App State 9
UD 21 - Furman 10

CAA 4 SoCon 0



My take is:

Rich: 28 Elon: 42
GaSo: 27 NE: 25
JMU: 20 ASU: 47
Del: 20 FU: 21

SoCon: 4 - CAA: 0

[Mountaineer]

Hey!! Can I pick my conference to be 4-0 against the other conference too!??!

Can I? Huh huh?!?! :D







xcoffeex xrolleyesx

[furman94]

Why? Del 21 FU 10? What's up with these scores?

NE 5 - GSU 4

NE gets a FG and a saftey? GSU has 2 safties?

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

I'm a homer like everyone else on this thread. I don't have to justify my reasons do I?!

In reality, I think Richmond, JMU and Furman will win close games. GSU will blow out Northeastern.

Furman catches UD early, before their offense has gotten its rhythm.

JMU will be in a must-win against App State. They are the first team in 1-AA history to look past a 1-A team ... and subsequently their defending conference champion, and will probably lose to both.


Why? Del 21 FU 10? What's up with these scores?

NE 5 - GSU 4

NE gets a FG and a saftey? GSU has 2 safties?

[JohnStOnge]

Put me down as saying that, year in and year out recently, the A-10/CAA has been the tougest conference top to bottom. Now, I think there is an argument for the Southern being the toughets top to bottom in 2007. But I think 2007 was an abberation in that regard in recent years.

[ViennaSpider]

I can' wait for August 30, Elon vs Richmond, it's going to be soooooo much fun. What a way to continue this discussion on the field.

You got that right. I'll be there and I plan on having soooooo much fun.

[Reign of Terrier]

My take is:

Richmond 30 Elon 31 (This game could go either way, I only pick Elon because they're socon.)
GSU 20 NE 10
ASU 31 JMU 38 (I think the dynasty finally ends this yearxpeacex )
Furman 20 Deleware 17 F/OT

This more of guess than a prediction seeing how close these teams are.

[furman94]

I like that dynasty prediction!

[SoCon48]

Take away App State the last 3 seasons and the So-Con is a mediocre conference.
mediocre?

SoCon teams fared better vs App last year than the CAA did.

[GannonFan]

mediocre?

SoCon teams fared better vs App last year than the CAA did.

SoCon teams got to play home games against Appy St last year too, something the CAA teams didn't have the luxury of doing. xreadx

Even when Marshall and GSU were winning national titles, they had to go on the road in the playoffs occassionally (well, Marshall went on the road once maybe, but that's still one more than Appy St). Appy St has had the luxury of no road playoff games in 3 years and having the national title location basically be in their backyard. It's not quite the same that the "Marshall Invitational" became at times, but it's not far off from that either. xthumbsupx

[elon77]

I love how these richmond people only think Elon will put up 10 or 17 points on their spiders. Are they talking about the first quarter? They must not know about Pete Lembo's 2 minute offense, that they run the whole game. It won't be long though before they find out.

[Skjellyfetti]

SoCon teams got to play home games against Appy St last year too, something the CAA teams didn't have the luxury of doing. xreadx

Even when Marshall and GSU were winning national titles, they had to go on the road in the playoffs occassionally (well, Marshall went on the road once maybe, but that's still one more than Appy St). Appy St has had the luxury of no road playoff games in 3 years and having the national title location basically be in their backyard. It's not quite the same that the "Marshall Invitational" became at times, but it's not far off from that either. xthumbsupx

Georgia Southern beat us at home. Delaware lost to us on a neutral field. We only played Richmond and JMU at home.

[Mountaineer]

I love how these richmond people only think Elon will put up 10 or 17 points on their spiders. Are they talking about the first quarter? They must not know about Pete Lembo's 2 minute offense, that they run the whole game. It won't be long though before they find out.

That's the goal of the opposing fanbase and their conference mates - to let you know how bad you're gonna suck. xlolx Gotta take that stuff and all the silly predictions in stride.

Last year, according to our esteemed CAA posters, the Richmond running backs, Hightower and Vaughn (I think), were going to run for..oh, about 600 yards on us in the semifinal game. ;) Flacco and Cuff were gonna pass and run for like a grand in the championship game..

Just how it goes. xthumbsupx

[GannonFan]

I love how these richmond people only think Elon will put up 10 or 17 points on their spiders. Are they talking about the first quarter? They must not know about Pete Lembo's 2 minute offense, that they run the whole game. It won't be long though before they find out.

It's not like Lembo is an unknown commodity to the CAA - Lehigh is sorta in the middle of the CAA from a geographical standpoint. Lembo's 1-3 versus the CAA in his career with the same offense and there were better offenses in the CAA last year (JMU and UD) that struggled with Richmond's defense, which returns 8 starters this year.

[GannonFan]

Georgia Southern beat us at home. Delaware lost to us on a neutral field. We only played Richmond and JMU at home.

Yeah, Chatty was a neutral field. Sure, keep on believing that if it makes you sleep better at night! xlolx

[GannonFan]

That's the goal of the opposing fanbase and their conference mates - to let you know how bad you're gonna suck. xlolx Gotta take that stuff and all the silly predictions in stride.

Last year, according to our esteemed CAA posters, the Richmond running backs, Hightower and Vaughn (I think), were going to run for..oh, about 600 yards on us in the semifinal game. ;) Flacco and Cuff were gonna pass and run for like a grand in the championship game..

Just how it goes. xthumbsupx

Come on, Appy St was up by 21 points early in that semifinal game and Richmond had to play catchup all night. And even with that, Hightower rushed for 97 yards and Richmond had 200+ yards rushing - not bad considering the circumstances.

As for Flacco and Cuff, I don't recall many UD fans predicting anything other than a hopeful close win by the Hens - UD needed a perfect game to beat Appy St and they didn't come close to getting it.

[Skjellyfetti]

Yeah, Chatty was a neutral field. Sure, keep on believing that if it makes you sleep better at night! xlolx

Our fans dominated it... but you should blame your AD.

Chatty is a neutral site unless UTC makes it.

Would you have preferred it to be played at the Rock? xeekx

[ASU_Pads]

The SEC has won 4 of the 9 BCS championships, which is similar to the Southern Conference, which has won half of the national championships in the past 10 years.

It's not hard to get 10 of 12 teams in the playoffs when you got 5 in last year because of a biased committee... by the way... App took out 3 of the 5. Which conference are they from again?

[GannonFan]

Our fans dominated it... but you should blame your AD.

Chatty is a neutral site unless UTC makes it.

Would you have preferred it to be played at the Rock? xeekx

Easy drive versus an airplane ride. I was there, neutral field it was not. xreadx

[Nebuta]

Article pretty much didnt say anything most of us, who follow FCS, did not already know. CAA has always been the elite conference.
Unfortunately, the haters come out of the wood work, as jealousy sets in. xnodx

[GannonFan]

It's not hard to get 10 of 12 teams in the playoffs when you got 5 in last year because of a biased committee... by the way... App took out 3 of the 5. Which conference are they from again?

Biased? Too funny. UNH was the only team that was questionable and it was a coin toss between then and GSU. Other teams acquitted themselves quite well - 7-5 overall, 3 road wins (including one on the home field of the SoCon Champs), and knocking out both Gateway teams in their own buildings. Not bad for a conference that didn't have a home game after the first round - must be that bias thing you were going on about. xlolx

[TheValleyRaider]

Biased? Too funny. UNH was the only team that was questionable and it was a coin toss between then and GSU. Other teams acquitted themselves quite well - 7-5 overall, 3 road wins (including one on the home field of the SoCon Champs), and knocking out both Gateway teams in their own buildings. Not bad for a conference that didn't have a home game after the first round - must be that bias thing you were going on about. xlolx

Not so fast my friend xnonox

It was a coin toss between them and Villanova xcoolx

[JMU DUUUKES]

Denial .... fighting a loosing fight. The national media consistantly recognizes the CAA as the premier 1AA conference. I mean if App State wants to join thats fine with me, as they are the only worthy member.

[ChickenMan]

http://www.nigelhaversalliance.com/pics/infominister.jpeg

"The SoCon rules all of the FCS.. much like the The 'Republican Guard' dominates the US military".. :p

[DB_Atlantic10]

It's hard to argue which conference is better. I'm not going to say the Southern Conference is clearly better than the CAA.

However... you have to admit... the CAA does not "Dominate" FCS. xtwocentsx

This comment does not make any sense... App State has dominated in the FCS the past few years, but not the SoCon! The FCS in general does not view the SoCon as a dominate conference, they just don't. The Southern has produced dominated teams in ASU recently and GSU in the 90s with a study Furman Program....other than that, there is no other basis to support the SoCon. You can't carry the "CONFERENCE" on one team. To be honest, the former Gateway, now Missouri Valley Conference has the best claim to the overall best conference...they just don't seem to do well outside of their confines in the playoffs.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

I love how these richmond people only think Elon will put up 10 or 17 points on their spiders. Are they talking about the first quarter? They must not know about Pete Lembo's 2 minute offense, that they run the whole game. It won't be long though before they find out.

I know you have a great offense. I just don't expect it to be on the field much. We'll be ramming the ball down your throat for 40 minutes.

[Reign of Terrier]

This comment does not make any sense... App State has dominated in the FCS the past few years, but not the SoCon! The FCS in general does not view the SoCon as a dominate conference, they just don't. The Southern has produced dominated teams in ASU recently and GSU in the 90s with a study Furman Program....other than that, there is no other basis to support the SoCon. You can't carry the "CONFERENCE" on one team. To be honest, the former Gateway, now Missouri Valley Conference has the best claim to the overall best conference...they just don't seem to do well outside of their confines in the playoffs.

ASU may have dominated the FCS in past years but they haven't been as successful against Socon teams. App made the playoffs last year by a smaller margin than usual (Had they not beat Michigan they wouldn't have had home field). 2 of the last 6 years wofford has made the playoffs and 3 of the past 6 years we've had enough wins to be considered in the playoff (1 more win and we'd definitely be in the playoffs) but alas we are a small school and the fact that we don't get as much attendance as a CAA school has kept us out. (Have you noticed, in the last few years, that the best in the socon consist of the schools with the top 2 most attendance-App, GSU and the bottom 2-FU, Wofford?)

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

A man walks into a bar...

There's a horrible noise coming from the back room...

The man asks the bartender what's going on back there...

The bartender answers "Its almost college football season"...

The man says, "yea, what does that have to do with that racket???"

The bartender answers "It happens about this time each year...folks from the CAA and SOCON fight over which conference is the best..."

The man asks "Each year...haven't they figured it out yet???"

Bartender says "Nah, they piss and moan, throw out all kind of facts and figures...and in the end they never agree...but its good for business because they sure can consume some alcohol..."

IS IT FOOTBALL SEASON YET???

xlmaox xlmaox xlmaox xlmaox

xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx

As soon as I started reading this thread, I thought "this discussion, again"! Has to mean that the first kickoff is imminent! Can't come soon enough!! xoopsx

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[89Hen]

It's hard to argue which conference is better. I'm not going to say the Southern Conference is clearly better than the CAA.

However... you have to admit... the CAA does not "Dominate" FCS. xtwocentsx
xnodx

[DB_Atlantic10]

That's the goal of the opposing fanbase and their conference mates - to let you know how bad you're gonna suck. xlolx Gotta take that stuff and all the silly predictions in stride.

Last year, according to our esteemed CAA posters, the Richmond running backs, Hightower and Vaughn (I think), were going to run for..oh, about 600 yards on us in the semifinal game. ;) Flacco and Cuff were gonna pass and run for like a grand in the championship game..

Just how it goes. xthumbsupx JMU kicked ASU's butt up and down the field, then let them off the hook and ASU took it to UR and UDel as they should have. So I blame JMU for this even being an argument this year. We also let UR and UD off the hook during the season with fumbles....with all three teams knowing they got away with one. In my opinion and only my opinion, the best team did not represent the CAA last year. Fact, not opinion, fumbles are a part of the game and if you can't hold on to the ball...even I will go against my own opinion, that you "CAN'T" be the best team if you turn the ball over. xnonono2x

ASU did what they had to do and took their 3rd Title while representing the SoCon...and now the rest of the conference has jumped on the bandwagon...... ASU beating 3 CAA teams in the playoff in itself is a testament to the strength of the CAA. Otherwise they would have had to beat 3 SoCon or some other conference teams.

[89Hen]

Oh, now that's turning a statistic on its head! Actually, last year alone, the CAA got 3 shots, JMU, Richmond, & Delaware! In order for ASU to give the CAA any more shots, it would have to join the CAA.
xconfusedx SoCon fans were saying it wasn't fair to compare playoff wins because that the CAA got more teams in the playoffs, but it's also not fair to say the SoCon teams get more chances at App??? xconfusedx

BTW, in 2003 Delaware went 15-1 losing only to Northeastern. In 2004, JMU's only I-AA loss was to William and Mary and conicidentally, W&M's only I-AA loss that same year was to JMU. What does that prove?

[89Hen]

Delaware lost to us on a neutral field.
xeyebrowx xcoolx

[89Hen]

I love how these richmond people only think Elon will put up 10 or 17 points on their spiders. Are they talking about the first quarter? They must not know about Pete Lembo's 2 minute offense, that they run the whole game. It won't be long though before they find out.
One winning season since joining the SoCon and here come the Elon fans. I had actually missed them, until now.

[89Hen]

you got 5 in last year because of a biased committee...
Now I've heard it all. xnonono2x xnutsx

[Eaglesrus]

It's hard to argue which conference is better. I'm not going to say the Southern Conference is clearly better than the CAA.

However... you have to admit... the CAA does not "Dominate" FCS. xtwocentsx


This comment does not make any sense... App State has dominated in the FCS the past few years, but not the SoCon! The FCS in general does not view the SoCon as a dominate conference, they just don't. The Southern has produced dominated teams in ASU recently and GSU in the 90s with a study Furman Program....other than that, there is no other basis to support the SoCon. You can't carry the "CONFERENCE" on one team. To be honest, the former Gateway, now Missouri Valley Conference has the best claim to the overall best conference...they just don't seem to do well outside of their confines in the playoffs.

I believe it's your comment that doesn't make any sense, as skjellyfetti never said that the SoCon dominates the FCS, he just said that the CAA doesn't either.

[DB_Atlantic10]

I believe it's your comment that doesn't make any sense, as skjellyfetti never said that the SoCon dominates the FCS, he just said that the CAA doesn't either.xblahblahx

[jmuroller]

ASU may have dominated the FCS in past years but they haven't been as successful against Socon teams. App made the playoffs last year by a smaller margin than usual (Had they not beat Michigan they wouldn't have had home field). 2 of the last 6 years wofford has made the playoffs and 3 of the past 6 years we've had enough wins to be considered in the playoff (1 more win and we'd definitely be in the playoffs) but alas we are a small school and the fact that we don't get as much attendance as a CAA school has kept us out. (Have you noticed, in the last few years, that the best in the socon consist of the schools with the top 2 most attendance-App, GSU and the bottom 2-FU, Wofford?)

Beating Michigan DID NOT get App the home game. 20k+ people every home game got them home field. The committee gives the games to the highest bid, period. Records are only used to seed the top 4...then it's all about the Benjamins.


Also, how do you think attendance is the reason the CAA gets more bids. Outside of say the top4-5 in our conference, the attendance is terrible. Some schools barely get 5k a game.

[Reign of Terrier]

Beating Michigan DID NOT get App the home game. 20k+ people every home game got them home field. The committee gives the games to the highest bid, period. Records are only used to seed the top 4...then it's all about the Benjamins.


Also, how do you think attendance is the reason the CAA gets more bids. Outside of say the top4-5 in our conference, the attendance is terrible. Some schools barely get 5k a game.

Wofford gave a RECORD BID to the NCAA so we could get a home game, we beat app so we figured it would be in the first round but instead the dad gumm selection commitee sent us to Montana. We won and got a home game against Richmond and had we won that we would of had to play app at App.
Don't talk to me about sorry attendance-Wofford's is going to be small for a long time because A)only about 1,000 students enrolled there and B) If you put together all of thier living Alumni it wouldn't equal the amount of students enrolled at app. Furman is the same way, Elon isn't as bad but close (Citadel fans how many are enrolled there?). The bottom line is that the Socon consists of smaller schools than the CAA which leads to smaller attendance which leads the selection committee to be not so willing to put them in the playoffs.

[Saluki Fan in FL]

Denial .... fighting a loosing fight. The national media consistantly recognizes the CAA as the premier 1AA conference. I mean if App State wants to join thats fine with me, as they are the only worthy member.
xlmaox xlmaox xlmaox xlmaox xlmaox xlmaox xlmaox

Ya think the national media will take notice of a different conference this year? Yo App... you're the only one worthy of them, not UNI, SIU, North Dakota State... !!!! You should be so proud, pack your bags fellas, the elite conference is inviting ya. You'd have to be stupid not to!
xlmaox xlmaox xlmaox xlmaox xlmaox xlmaox xlmaox

By the way... if you don't use the term "FCS," then don't ever expect your precious "national media" to.

[FCS Go!]

Wofford gave a RECORD BID to the NCAA so we could get a home game.... The bottom line is that the Socon consists of smaller schools than the CAA which leads to smaller attendance which leads the selection committee to be not so willing to put them in the playoffs.

If Wofford had submitted a "record" bid for a playoff game then Wofford would have had a first round home game. Maybe it was a "record" for Wofford?

Attendance has nothing to do with getting in the playoffs. It obviously affects how much a school can afford to bid on a home game though. Wofford probably needs to be seeded to get a home game or at least to luck into a match up with a team with lower attendance figures.

[furman94]

ENOUGH WITH THE BIASED HOMERISM BULL ****! Of course Socon people think we're the best, and of corse CAA people think they're the best! That's what you get in a thread like this! We as fans can't answer this question of dominance truthfully, because of our given ties to each program and conference! We must leave the question to be answered ON THE FIELD, not in our minds where bias rules our thoughts!

IS IT KICKOFF YET?!

[89Hen]

The committee gives the games to the highest bid, period.
Not accurate.

[ur2k]

If Wofford had submitted a "record" bid for a playoff game then Wofford would have had a first round home game. Maybe it was a "record" for Wofford?

Attendance has nothing to do with getting in the playoffs. It obviously affects how much a school can afford to bid on a home game though. Wofford probably needs to be seeded to get a home game or at least to luck into a match up with a team with lower attendance figures.

A record bid by what standards? Word on the street (or from an interview with our AD) before the UR-Wofford playoff game last year was that both bids were very similar and the game was awarded to Wofford due to the 'welfare of student athlete' clause in the selection criteria since they went on the road to Montana the previous week and we were home vs. EKU.

And back to the topic at hand. Both conferences are good. We should join forces to discuss how bad the other conferences are xthumbsupx

[Saluki Fan in FL]

ENOUGH WITH THE BIASED HOMERISM BULL ****! Of course Socon people think we're the best, and of corse CAA people think they're the best! That's what you get in a thread like this! We as fans can't answer this question of dominance truthfully, because of our given ties to each program and conference! We must leave the question to be answered ON THE FIELD, not in our minds where bias rules our thoughts!

IS IT KICKOFF YET?!

I agree... but I don't think either one of you are the best. At least not any more. xsmiley_wix

[89Hen]

I agree... but I don't think either one of you are the best. At least not any more. xsmiley_wix
The only thing we know about NDSU and SDSU is they have never played a Gateway/MO Valley game and they've never played a playoff game. They may be the next great thing, but we just don't know that yet. Horse----->Cart.

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

The committee gives the games to the highest bid, period.


Not accurate.

...yet true! xsmiley_wix

[89Hen]

...yet true! xsmiley_wix
Nope.

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

Name a time when this did not happen. Obviously, top 4 seeded teams excluded from the argument.

[Reign of Terrier]

If Wofford had submitted a "record" bid for a playoff game then Wofford would have had a first round home game. Maybe it was a "record" for Wofford?

Attendance has nothing to do with getting in the playoffs. It obviously affects how much a school can afford to bid on a home game though. Wofford probably needs to be seeded to get a home game or at least to luck into a match up with a team with lower attendance figures.

It was a record for Wofford. All I'm saying is that Wofford would have probably gotten a home game in the first round or at least wouldn't of been sent all the way to Montana had App not beaten Michigan.

That's not the point I'm trying to make though. When the NCAA is picking teams for the playoffs the tiebreaker for the lower teams is attendance. When deciding the bracket the location of the games are decided 1) by seeding (top 4) 2) attendance and 3) Money given from the college. attendance is used to determine the playoff teams and where they're seeded(not top 4) because the NCAA wants to pick the match up that gets the most $$$$$. My point is that the best way for Socon teams to get in the playoffs is winning 8 games at least. Since the attendance of these teams are so small, if it comes down to a (just an example) 8-3 second or third in Socon, Wofford team and a deleware team with the same standing and record the NCAA will look at attendance and choose Deleware.

[ChickenMan]

The bottom line is that the Socon consists of smaller schools than the CAA which leads to smaller attendance which leads the selection committee to be not so willing to put them in the playoffs.


Well the SoCon.. with their 'smaller' schools sure seem to get very favorable treatment from the selection committe when it comes to getting 'home' games during the playoffs. I just did a quick check and over the last ten years the SoCon has had 38 home games as opposed to just 18 road games (68%). In the same period the CAA has had 26 home games vs 32 road games (45%). Considering the fact that the 'home' teams have won over 60% of the time during playoff history, I'd say that the CAA's performance with only 45% of their playoff games being on their home turf is definately more impressive than the SoCon's who has had the benefit of having 68% on their playoff games at their home fields.

[89Hen]

When the NCAA is picking teams for the playoffs the tiebreaker for the lower teams is attendance.... if it comes down to a (just an example) 8-3 second or third in Socon, Wofford team and a deleware team with the same standing and record the NCAA will look at attendance and choose Deleware.
Again, not accurate. There are only a few teams that may get that last spot by virtue of attendance all other things being equal, but you're talking about only a very few and a couple of them reside in the SoCon (GSU, ASU and probably FU).

[furman94]

Ha! See what all our whinin' gets us boys? lack of respect!

[Reign of Terrier]

Well the SoCon.. with their 'smaller' schools sure seem to get very favorable treatment from the selection committe when it comes to getting 'home' games in during the playoffs. I just did a quick check and over the last ten years the SoCon has had 38 home games as opposed to just 18 road games (68%). In the same period the CAA has had 26 home games vs 32 road games (45%). Considering the fact that the 'home' teams have won over 60% of the time during playoff history, I'd say that the CAA's performance with only 45% of their playoff games being on their home turf is definately more impressive than the SoCon's who has had the benefit of having 68% on their playoff games at the home fields.

That's because Socon teams (with the exception of App and GSU) have to be REALLY good to get in the playoffs (see Wofford and Furman)

[ChickenMan]

That's because Socon teams (with the exception of App and GSU) have to be REALLY good to get in the playoffs (see Wofford and Furman)


yea.. they have to whip WCU, UTC, Citadel and Elon every year... :p

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

That's because Socon teams (with the exception of App and GSU) have to be REALLY good to get in the playoffs (see Wofford and Furman)

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx Ok, that one just made my day. We have gone to ludicrous speed on this frickin' debate! xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

All teams of both conferences have to be really good to reach the playoffs every year.

[furman94]

ANY GIVEN SATURDAY!

[Reign of Terrier]

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx Ok, that one just made my day. We have gone to ludicrous speed on this frickin' debate! xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

All teams of both conferences have to be really good to reach the playoffs every year.

As in Conference champion REALLY Good

[89Hen]

Name a time when this did not happen. Obviously, top 4 seeded teams excluded from the argument.
xconfusedx You of all people should know this. How many playoff games has JMU hosted recently?? Yet schools like SIU, EIU, UNH... get home games with half the attendance and what I can only assume is an inferior bid.

[Reign of Terrier]

yea.. they have to whip WCU, UTC, Citadel and Elon every year... :p

...and then go to the playoffs and get to at least the quarterfinal and usually the semis and the occasional championship (NOT JUST ASU and GSU! Furman in '01 ). When Socon team come to the playoffs they usually never go one and done.

[ChickenMan]

xconfusedx You of all people should know this. How many playoff games has JMU hosted recently?? Yet schools like SIU, EIU, UNH... get home games with half the attendance and what I can only assume is an inferior bid.

the correct answer would be...... ZERO

[89Hen]

...and then go to the playoffs and get to at least the semisxrolleyesx
xconfusedx You've been once. Cripes, it's a race to Chatty between Wofford and Elon. Nobody else should bother showing up. xnonono2x

[Reign of Terrier]

xconfusedx You've been once. Cripes, it's a race to Chatty between Wofford and Elon. Nobody else should bother showing up. xnonono2x

No Furmans been twice since '01:p

[jmuroller]

xconfusedx You of all people should know this. How many playoff games has JMU hosted recently?? Yet schools like SIU, EIU, UNH... get home games with half the attendance and what I can only assume is an inferior bid.

The bids aren't opened until AFTER the pairings are made. They seed the top 4 and set their opponents. Then the remaining teams are paired and AFTER they are set then bids are opened. Whoever is the highest of the 2, gets the home game.

[Tribe4SF]

xconfusedx You of all people should know this. How many playoff games has JMU hosted recently?? Yet schools like SIU, EIU, UNH... get home games with half the attendance and what I can only assume is an inferior bid.

I wouldn't assume they were inferior bids. JMU fans have harped on their AD for years about bids for playoff games. With 5,000 of their typical crowd being students, the numbers they could expect for a Thanksgiving weekend game have probably contributed to their AD's conservative bids. Part of their dilemma has been geographical. The committee sets the matchups, and then looks at bids. With Lehigh, Youngstown State and App State as first round opponents since 2004, they would need a big bid to be at home (irrespective of ASU's seed).

[GtFllsGriz]

Interesting discussion. But let me add this to the debate. Although the CAA has sent a lot of different teams to the playoffs and NC does not mean that every team in the conference is tough every year. All it means is that the strength of the teams changes every year. So how does that prove that it is the toughest conference every year? The Griz are at the top every year no matter how tough the rest of the conference is. I may add that the representatives that the BSC have sent to the playoffs haven't all sucked! All that tells me is that it is all relative no matter what conference you are in. Having twice as many teams in a confernce is going to give you a better shot at putting more teams in the playoffs. No different than having two different conferences with auto-bids.

Plus, the strength of the conferences are going to change every year to a degree. One or two super studs in a conference can change the whole landscape real quick. But enjoy yourselves with the debate. The rest of us second tier conferences will stay out of your chest thumping orgasm.

[89Hen]

No Furmans been twice since '01:p
I thought you were a Wofford fan? xconfusedx

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

the correct answer would be...... ZERO

Some CAA teams have had chances with home field advantage in the playoffs and blew them. W&M got 3 home playoff games in '04. UNH had two games at home in '05 and would have had a third against Texas State but they lost to Northern Iowa. And UMass got to host two games in 2006.

The CAA has had some impressive "road warrior" teams in the playoffs, but you cant say these kind of opportunities haven't existed for them.

[89Hen]

The bids aren't opened until AFTER the pairings are made.

The committee sets the matchups, and then looks at bids.
AFAIK, that is not true.


c. When determining host institutions for playoff games when both teams are unseeded, criteria shall apply as follows: (1) quality of facility, (2) revenue potential plus estimated net receipts, (3) attendance history and potential, (4) team’s performance (i.e., conference place finish, head-to-head results and number of Division I opponents), and (5) student-athlete well-being (e.g., travel, missed class time).


All pairings will be made by the Division I football committee. The following principles are applied when pairing teams:
1. The teams awarded the top four seeds are placed in the appropriate positions in the bracket (Nos. 1 and 4 in the upper half, and Nos. 2 and 3 in the lower half), and will be paired with teams that are in closest geographic proximity;
2. The remaining teams will be paired according to geographic proximity and placed in the bracket according to geographic proximity of the four pairings previously placed in the bracket.
3. Teams from the same conference will not be paired for first-round games;
4. Once the first-round pairings have been determined, there will be no adjustments to the bracket.

[89Hen]

Some CAA teams have had chances with home field advantage in the playoffs and blew them. W&M got 3 home playoff games in '04. UNH had two games at home in '05 and would have had a third against Texas State but they lost to Northern Iowa. And UMass got to host two games in 2006.

The CAA has had some impressive "road warrior" teams in the playoffs, but you cant say these kind of opportunities haven't existed for them.
ChickenMan was answering the question of how many games JMU has hosted. Of course we've hosted quite a few, but not nearly at the rate of SoCon teams. That actually goes back to the fact that the SoCon generally sends one of three teams, all of whom happen to draw well. The CAA sends a wide variety of teams, some of whom don't draw well. xpeacex

[jmuroller]

It was a record for Wofford. All I'm saying is that Wofford would have probably gotten a home game in the first round or at least wouldn't of been sent all the way to Montana had App not beaten Michigan.

That's not the point I'm trying to make though. When the NCAA is picking teams for the playoffs the tiebreaker for the lower teams is attendance. When deciding the bracket the location of the games are decided 1) by seeding (top 4) 2) attendance and 3) Money given from the college. attendance is used to determine the playoff teams and where they're seeded(not top 4) because the NCAA wants to pick the match up that gets the most $$$$$. My point is that the best way for Socon teams to get in the playoffs is winning 8 games at least. Since the attendance of these teams are so small, if it comes down to a (just an example) 8-3 second or third in Socon, Wofford team and a deleware team with the same standing and record the NCAA will look at attendance and choose Deleware.

Where do you even start on this one? If attendance had ANYTHING to do with what teams the committee picks, then how did New Hampshire get in over Georgia Southern? GSU easily doubles UNH's attendance, and might triple.

What is "3) Money given from the college?". What, can schools buy home games now by sending money to the NCAA during the season. The bids aren't open until AFTER the pairings are made.

You have no clue if you think for even a second that App beating Michigan had anything to do with them getting a home and you not. Show me some proof of this statement.


The 8-3 Delaware team will get in over the 8-3 Wofford team they had to play(and beat) schools like UMass, JMU, W&M, Richmond, Villanova, Maine....while Wofford beat Chattanooga, Citadel, Western Carolina, and Elon. How many teams in the SoCon have made it to the semi-finals in the past 10-15 years? HALF of the CAA has. That is 6 teams....which is more teams than the SoCon has even make it to the playoffs.

[89Hen]

The rest of us second tier conferences will stay out
xthumbsupx

[jmuroller]

c. When determining host institutions for playoff games when both teams are unseeded, criteria shall apply as follows: (1) quality of facility, (2) revenue potential plus estimated net receipts, (3) attendance history and potential, (4) team’s performance (i.e., conference place finish, head-to-head results and number of Division I opponents), and (5) student-athlete well-being (e.g., travel, missed class time).



All pairings will be made by the Division I football committee. The following principles are applied when pairing teams:
1. The teams awarded the top four seeds are placed in the appropriate positions in the bracket (Nos. 1 and 4 in the upper half, and Nos. 2 and 3 in the lower half), and will be paired with teams that are in closest geographic proximity;
2. The remaining teams will be paired according to geographic proximity and placed in the bracket according to geographic proximity of the four pairings previously placed in the bracket.
3. Teams from the same conference will not be paired for first-round games;
4. Once the first-round pairings have been determined, there will be no adjustments to the bracket.


That clearly states that the pairing are made, then the bids are looked at. That says nothing about looking at the bids, then making the pairings. #2 says "The remaining teams will be paired according to geographic proximity."

[89Hen]

That clearly states that the pairing are made, then the bids are looked at. That says nothing about looking at the bids, then making the pairings. #2 says "The remaining teams will be paired according to geographic proximity."
It says nothing about the bids period, so you can't say they arrive in a sealed envelope and have no determination on the process. I've seen enough geographic anomolies to realize the Committee does NOT adhere to these guidelines 100%.

[Saint3333]

This again huh? My thoughts are well documented on this the past 5 years, but here's a summary.

During the 1-AA/FCS year the SoCon has the overall better programs, while the CAA more solid programs.

The knock against the SoCon was the bottom half of the teams, with Elon and Citadel stepping it up they could have 6 very competitive programs.

Whoever said prior to ASU's three titles the SoCon wasn't a good conference needs to do some research on GSU, Marshall, Furman, and ASU's success prior to 2005.

[Houndawg]

xconfusedx You of all people should know this. How many playoff games has JMU hosted recently?? Yet schools like SIU, EIU, UNH... get home games with half the attendance and what I can only assume is an inferior bid.

I think that SIU has only had home games when they were seeded.

[89Hen]

I think that SIU has only had home games when they were seeded.
I'd have to go back and look, but I think 2006 you hosted without one.

[Reign of Terrier]

I thought you were a Wofford fan? xconfusedx

This is socon vs CAA thread, Wofford's young in the socon so it doesn't hurt to look at others in the conference.

[Reign of Terrier]

Where do you even start on this one? If attendance had ANYTHING to do with what teams the committee picks, then how did New Hampshire get in over Georgia Southern? GSU easily doubles UNH's attendance, and might triple.


How many teams in the SoCon have made it to the semi-finals in the past 10-15 years? HALF of the CAA has. That is 6 teams....which is more teams than the SoCon has even make it to the playoffs.

GSU didn't get in because they lost to teams like Furman and chattanooga who weren't that good last year they may have beaten some good teams but they lost to teams they shouldn't of.

4 teams (half the socon) in the last 10 years have made it to the semis. Three of those teams made it to the championship games with two winning more than once.

[Reign of Terrier]

This again huh? My thoughts are well documented on this the past 5 years, but here's a summary.

During the 1-AA/FCS year the SoCon has the overall better programs, while the CAA more solid programs.

The knock against the SoCon was the bottom half of the teams, with Elon and Citadel stepping it up they could have 6 very competitive programs.

Whoever said prior to ASU's three titles the SoCon wasn't a good conference needs to do some research on GSU, Marshall, Furman, and ASU's success prior to 2005.

And Wofford (but not as much....yetxthumbsupx )

[Saluki Fan in FL]

The only thing we know about NDSU and SDSU is they have never played a Gateway/MO Valley game and they've never played a playoff game. They may be the next great thing, but we just don't know that yet. Horse----->Cart.

Wait a minute Hen... Y'all know them well enough to rank them #18 and #4 in your preseason poll this year. The Valley coaches must know NDSU well enough to already pick them to win our conference there first year in the Valley. We all remember NDSU ranked at #1 all year last year up until their last game when SDSU beat them giving them their only loss.

And as for them never having played any of us... NDSU beat WIU, ISU and lost to SDSU last year. SDSU lost to WIU 4OT, YSU, and UNI but beat NDSU last year. Two years ago SDSU played UNI. The same year NDSU only had one loss all year... FBS opponent Minnesota 9-10.

I think that's a pretty impressive rap sheet don't you. We definitely know what we are in store for. We've had the entire off season to discuss it on the Saluki Board. All the veterans in the Valley know exactly how tough it will be from now on to win our conference. That "horse" and that "cart" are well traveled.xsmiley_wix

[Saluki Fan in FL]

I'd have to go back and look, but I think 2006 you hosted without one.

Yes we did. The first round.

[Houndawg]

I'd have to go back and look, but I think 2006 you hosted without one.

Might have hosted UT-Martin that year, don't remember if we were seeded.

[Saluki Fan in FL]

Might have hosted UT-Martin that year, don't remember if we were seeded.

Yeah, it was UTM, then we went to Montana and got our asses handed to us. Don't like to remember that one. xbawlingx

[Saluki Fan in FL]

Interesting discussion. But let me add this to the debate. Although the CAA has sent a lot of different teams to the playoffs and NC does not mean that every team in the conference is tough every year. All it means is that the strength of the teams changes every year. So how does that prove that it is the toughest conference every year? The Griz are at the top every year no matter how tough the rest of the conference is. I may add that the representatives that the BSC have sent to the playoffs haven't all sucked! All that tells me is that it is all relative no matter what conference you are in. Having twice as many teams in a confernce is going to give you a better shot at putting more teams in the playoffs. No different than having two different conferences with auto-bids.

Plus, the strength of the conferences are going to change every year to a degree. One or two super studs in a conference can change the whole landscape real quick. But enjoy yourselves with the debate. The rest of us second tier conferences will stay out of your chest thumping orgasm.

OH YEAH... Get 'em Griz!!! 12 teams in the CAA as opposed to 9 in SoCon and 9 in MoValley. And yes, that's what I'm saying too Griz... "one or two super studs in a conference can change the whole landscape"... NDSU and SDSU. Welcome to the Valley boys! xthumbsupx xthumbsupx xthumbsupx

"Chest thumping orgasm"... I'm still laughing about that one.xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[BDKJMU]

ASU may have dominated the FCS in past years but they haven't been as successful against Socon teams. App made the playoffs last year by a smaller margin than usual (Had they not beat Michigan they wouldn't have had home field). 2 of the last 6 years wofford has made the playoffs and 3 of the past 6 years we've had enough wins to be considered in the playoff (1 more win and we'd definitely be in the playoffs) but alas we are a small school and the fact that we don't get as much attendance as a CAA school has kept us out. (Have you noticed, in the last few years, that the best in the socon consist of the schools with the top 2 most attendance-App, GSU and the bottom 2-FU, Wofford?)

xconfusedx

Even if ASU hadn't beaten Michigan they STILL would have had homefield. Homefield outside of the 4 seeded teams has mostly to do with stadium size, attendance during the regular season, facilities, as was previously posted in the criteria. The only way ASU will play a 1st round road playoff game is if they are not a seeded team and are the closest geographically non conference opponent to one of the seeded teams. Any time ASU is a non seeded team paired up with another non seeded team ASU will always host due to their stadium size and attendance history.

[BDKJMU]

JMU kicked ASU's butt up and down the field, then let them off the hook and ASU took it to UR and UDel as they should have. So I blame JMU for this even being an argument this year. We also let UR and UD off the hook during the season with fumbles....with all three teams knowing they got away with one. In my opinion and only my opinion, the best team did not represent the CAA last year. Fact, not opinion, fumbles are a part of the game and if you can't hold on to the ball...even I will go against my own opinion, that you "CAN'T" be the best team if you turn the ball over. xnonono2x

ASU did what they had to do and took their 3rd Title while representing the SoCon...and now the rest of the conference has jumped on the bandwagon...... ASU beating 3 CAA teams in the playoff in itself is a testament to the strength of the CAA. Otherwise they would have had to beat 3 SoCon or some other conference teams.

Actually those 3 games was 7 fumbles and 3 INTs.
JMU loses to UR by 1, loses turnover battle 3-2
JMU loses to UD by 3, loses turnover battle 4-0
JMU lose ro ASU by 1, loses turnover battle 3-2.

JMU loses by a combined 5 points to those 3 final 4 teams, and is negative 6 on the TO margin, (10-4). Thing is, all 3 games had JMU turnovers in opponents territory late in the 4th qtr on potential game winning drives. Was almost like painfully watching the same thing over and over.

[Reign of Terrier]

xconfusedx

You obviously don't know the criteria for giving homefield in the playoffs. Even if ASU hadn't beaten Michigan they STILL would have had homefield. Homefield outside of the 4 seeded teams has NOTHING to do with records. Its all about stadium size, attendance during the regular season, facilities. The only way ASU will play a 1st round road playoff game is if they are not a seeded team and are the closest geographically non conference opponent to one of the seeded teams. Any time ASU is a non seeded team paired up with another non seeded team ASU will always host due to their stadium size and attendance history.

whatever...I thought this died a few hours ago.xcoffeex

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

You guys really aren't going to give this up, are you? Hasn't holding onto the ball been an important aspect of winning football games ever since it was invented? xcoffeex


Actually those 3 games was 7 fumbles and 3 INTs.
JMU loses to UR by 1, loses turnover battle 3-2
JMU loses to UD by 3, loses turnover battle 4-0
JMU lose ro ASU by 1, loses turnover battle 3-2.

JMU loses by a combined 5 points to those 3 final 4 teams, and is negative 6 on the TO margin, (10-4). Thing is, all 3 games had JMU turnovers in opponents territory late in the 4th qtr on potential game winning drives. Was almost like painfully watching the same thing over and over.

[Reign of Terrier]

You guys really aren't going to give this up, are you? Hasn't holding onto the ball been an important aspect of winning football games ever since it was invented? xcoffeex

That and not fumbling long snaps inside the 20 to kill all momentum and any chances of winning. (You know what I'm saying Big House)

[furman94]

BLAH BLAH BLAH! End it already!

[Reign of Terrier]

BLAH BLAH BLAH! End it already!

PLEASE!!! I thought we did somewhere between 1:53 and 2:24 (maybe earlier!)

[BDKJMU]

xconfusedx You of all people should know this. How many playoff games has JMU hosted recently?? Yet schools like SIU, EIU, UNH... get home games with half the attendance and what I can only assume is an inferior bid.

UNH only got a home game in 05' when they were a seed. In 04', 06', and 07' they were sent on the road.

If you have 2 small stadium/bad attendance non seeded teams paired up, then of course one has to get the bid. But every time 2 non seeded teams are paired up, its almost always going to be the team with the best attendance #s.

[furman94]

Call a damn truce already! ( well atleast until the UDel game!)

[Reign of Terrier]

Call a damn truce already! ( well atleast until the UDel game!)

Sorry BDKJMU you left the party too early.

[stevdock]

Do we have to go through this crap again?? Didn't we do this a couple of months ago. There's no point in reading the rest of this.

[IndianaAppMan]

RE: Colonial dominating Championship Subdivision

App dominating Colonial xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx








Look, valid arguments can be made for both sides. SoCon fans (including myself) are going to cite the facts that work in their favor while dismissing those that go against them or for the CAA, and CAA fans are going to do the same. Mo. Valley will join in as well in the discussion, as they should.

In the FBS world, there are multiple ACC-SEC matchups in the regular season and in a bowl or two. SEC teams dominate year-in and year-out, from top to bottom, so there's no question which conference is superior.

It's a heck of a lot hazier in FCS. For one thing, there's only been 8 SoCon teams and 8 Mo Valley teams, while the CAA has had 12. If the quality is equal, the CAA SHOULD send more teams to the playoffs.

Even with this year's SoCon-CAA matchups, we still will only have 3 games to judge by, which, for anyone who knows much about statistics, is a tiny sample size. (We can throw out Ga Southern-Northeastern unless NE manages an upset; it would be like an ACC fan counting Clemson over Ole Miss or an SEC fan counting Georgia over NC State as fair measuring sticks.)

All 3 conferences have extemely good arguments as to why they're the best, but until there are full-out conference challenges, no true consensus can ever be made.

[ChickenMan]

The fact is that the 'best' conference varies from year to year.. some years it will be the Gateway.. other years the SoCon and at times the CAA. The only obvious fact in this entire debate is that currently.. the question as to who is the best conference... is limited to just three candidates.

[IndianaAppMan]

The fact is that the 'best' conference varies from year to year.. some years it will be the Gateway.. other years the SoCon and at times the CAA. The only obvious fact in this entire debate is that currently.. the question as to who is the best conference... is limited to just three candidates.

At least there as many as three candidates. Plus, in a given year, it wouldn't be shocking to see Big Sky, Southland, or OVC deliver 3 or more teams to the playoffs. In other words, there a lot of conferences with top-notch competition. Compare that to other sports.

In FBS, it's so obvious that SEC is number one it's hardly worth discussion. The only legitimate debate is over #2.

In the NFL, it was the NFC for a long time. Then, starting with the Broncos' SB win in the '97 season, it was AFC dominance. Only last year was it truly even. (In fact, the NFC went 32-32 against the AFC. While the AFC had the team with the #1 record and another tied for #2, it also had the worst teams in the league.)

In the NBA, the Western Conference is dominant, except at the very top.

In baseball, the American League dominates the National League in the All-Start game AND in interleague play.

College basketball is really the only other sport in which no conference is dependably dominant. Any given year, the #1 conference could be any of the six mega-money conferences, and the Mo. Valley is very close, too.

[URMite]

-"Dominating" is definitely hyberbole.

-Despite the improvement of Elon & The Citadel last year and addition of the Dakotas to the valley this year, for the recent past the CAA has been the most balanced of the good conferences and that is what the article should have been about.

As an example, if you had a choice to face a team in the playoffs from the CAA, SoCon, or MVC from the past 5 or 10 years, picked at random, not from the playoff teams but from all teams in the conference. Which conference would you pick to give yourself the best chance of winning? I don't think it would be the CAA because of their percentage of good (if not always great) teams.

And for Terrier, I'm not so sure that the CAA has more high attendance teams (>9000) than the SoCon, although I might agree with you that attendance is a factor in playoff scenarios.

[furman94]

We're still playing this game?

[YoUDeeMan]

Furman catches UD early, before their offense has gotten its rhythm.


It is not as if this is the opening game. UD will have three extra weeks to get the offense on track; a throw away game vs. MD, a bye week, and a tune up game against West Chester.

Our offense will be ready. xnodx xthumbsupx

[IndianaAppMan]

It is not as if this is the opening game. UD will have three extra weeks to get the offense on track; a throw away game vs. MD, a bye week, and a tune up game against West Chester.

Our offense will be ready. xnodx xthumbsupx

Can someone please explain to me why Delaware is too good to play Delaware State but considers D-II West Chester worthy of playing regularly?

[GannonFan]

Can someone please explain to me why Delaware is too good to play Delaware State but considers D-II West Chester worthy of playing regularly?

West Chester's better than Delaware St. xthumbsupx

Besides, Delaware St wants games at their place too - Delaware isn't in the habit of conceeding to OOC home and homes unless they are with the GSU's, Youngstown St's, or Furman's of the world (and even The Citadel as well).

But most years West Chester is a 2 TD favorite over DSU. xnodx

[PaladinFan]

Eh, Deleware will be ready for Furman, and vice versa. We have similar schedules starting out against a tough ACC team and a patsy.

I usually just look at the bottom up when comparing conferences. If your last place team would beat our last place team 6 out of 10 times, second to last beat our second to last, etc.

Just like in FBS football. Is LSU better than Ohio State? Yes. Is Vanderbit (the 11th best team in the SEC) better than Minnesota? Would the SEC's 10th best (South Carolina) beat Northwestern? Everyday of the week.

The scheduling gods have done well to really settle this difference for at least a year. Some of the CAAs and SoCons best squads are locking up this season.

[YoUDeeMan]

Can someone please explain to me why Delaware is too good to play Delaware State but considers D-II West Chester worthy of playing regularly?

Please. Stop with the "Delaware is too good to play" garbage and do some research. xreadx

DSU offers UD nothing and they want something. Despite the naysayers, that has always been true. I am a DSU fan, but they have got to step up before they ask for a home game.

WCU gives us a home game and a sell out without wanting a return game. Plus, our former university president (retired last year) was a WCU grad. Well, technically he was a WCCC grad, but they upgraded to WCU. xlolx

[SoCon48]

Maybe one of these days the NCAA will select only last place teams to compete for the national championship and this argument will have merit.xcoffeex

[ASU88]

-"Dominating" is definitely hyberbole.
-Despite the improvement of Elon & The Citadel last year and addition of the Dakotas to the valley this year, for the recent past the CAA has been the most balanced of the good conferences and that is what the article should have been about.

Bingo!

I think there have been some compelling arguments made for the strength of the CAA overall. I don't think I'd use the word "dominating" like the author of the article did, but the examples cited are hard to argue (though arguements have ensued anyway!).

[ChickenMan]

Maybe one of these days the NCAA will select only last place teams to compete for the national championship and this argument will have merit.xcoffeex


National Championships determine the best 'team' not the best league.

A conference includes ALL schools not just the top two or three programs.. therefore when you evaluate the competitiveness of any league.. the ENTIRE membership comes under scrutiny and that includes the good as well as the bad.

[Appaholic]

-"Dominating" is definitely hyberbole.

-Despite the improvement of Elon & The Citadel last year and addition of the Dakotas to the valley this year, for the recent past the CAA has been the most balanced of the good conferences and that is what the article should have been about.

As an example, if you had a choice to face a team in the playoffs from the CAA, SoCon, or MVC from the past 5 or 10 years, picked at random, not from the playoff teams but from all teams in the conference. Which conference would you pick to give yourself the best chance of winning? I don't think it would be the CAA because of their percentage of good (if not always great) teams.

And for Terrier, I'm not so sure that the CAA has more high attendance teams (>9000) than the SoCon, although I might agree with you that attendance is a factor in playoff scenarios.

agree xthumbsupx

[bluehenbillk]

As an example, if you had a choice to face a team in the playoffs from the CAA, SoCon, or MVC from the past 5 or 10 years, picked at random, not from the playoff teams but from all teams in the conference. Which conference would you pick to give yourself the best chance of winning? I don't think it would be the CAA because of their percentage of good (if not always great) teams.



In a heartbeat, give me a team from the Gateway/MVC, we haven't lost to one of their teams in decades.

[furman94]

YAWN xcoffeex

[89Hen]

Wait a minute Hen... Y'all know them well enough to rank them #18 and #4 in your preseason poll this year.
You know preseason polls are basically worthless. Like I said, we expect them to be good and expect them to make the Gateway that much tougher, but they have never had to play as tough a schedule as they will from now on. What if NDSU loses to UNI, SIU, YSU, WIU....?

[89Hen]

You guys really aren't going to give this up, are you? Hasn't holding onto the ball been an important aspect of winning football games ever since it was invented? xcoffeex
Hey, if Georgia Southern can claim UMass didn't really win the 1998 Championship, JMU fans can claim they never really got beat either. :p

[89Hen]

Plus, in a given year, it wouldn't be shocking to see Big Sky, Southland, or OVC deliver 3 or more teams to the playoffs.
Actually it would, especially the OVC. They shouldn't get two at this point. Non at least until they win a playoff game.

[BDKJMU]

West Chester's better than Delaware St. xthumbsupx

Besides, Delaware St wants games at their place too - Delaware isn't in the habit of conceeding to OOC home and homes unless they are with the GSU's, Youngstown St's, or Furman's of the world (and even The Citadel as well).

But most years West Chester is a 2 TD favorite over DSU. xnodx

But thats what I don't get. Play a better team, West Chester, that usually could beat some of the weaker and non scholly I-AA, but get no credit for a Div I win.

Play a weaker team, DSU, but get credit for a Div I win.

Go 8-3 or 8-4 with West Chester on the schedule, 7 Div I wins = maybe no playoffs some seasons (yes, I know last season UD made it with 8 wins and has before)
Go 8-3 or 8-4 with DSU on schedule instead= 8 Div I wins & more likely playoffs.

UD should drop the annual West Chester game and replace it with DSU. Having 1 less home game every 2 years in my mind would pale in comparison in missing out on the playoffs one year (usually a 1st round home game for UD) due to having one less Div one win. Case in point this season. UD could very well go 8-4. That West Chester game could very well be the difference between UD making vs not making the playoffs at 8-4. Don't believe any other CAA has a Div II on their schedule- UMass is playing Bryant, a team transitioning to I-AA, so don't know if that counts as Div I or not.

[bluehenbillk]

We all know the perceptions out there but the DSU game does little for UD fans. The two schools finally played last year & it was DSU's 1st playoff team, probably their best squad in the past 2 decades if not ever, and the game was a total & utter mismatch that the final score (44-7) doesn't even closely resemble.

I'd rather see a regional 1-AA game or play a team from the SoCon like FU the next 2 seasons.

[ChickenMan]

But thats what I don't get. Play a better team, West Chester, that usually could beat some of the weaker and non scholly I-AA, but get no credit for a Div I win.



UD has been playing West Chester at the 'Tub' on a yearly basis for 40 years and until about 10 years ago.. WCU was able to play fairly competitve games vs the Hens. However, those type WCU teams are long gone and the WCU series really needs to be ended. I'd love to see UD replace WCU with any of the following...

1 - Penn
2 - Princeton
3 - any Patriot League team
4 - Del St or another MEAC school

however the key is that who ever replaces WCU has to be willing to come to Delaware without a requiring a home/home agreement. Unless that happens we may see WCU for another 40 yrs.... :(

[Saluki Fan in FL]

In a heartbeat, give me a team from the Gateway/MVC, we haven't lost to one of their teams in decades.

You won't be able to count by tens anymore. xsmiley_wix Oh, and... we accept.

[Saluki Fan in FL]

You know preseason polls are basically worthless. Like I said, we expect them to be good and expect them to make the Gateway that much tougher, but they have never had to play as tough a schedule as they will from now on. What if NDSU loses to UNI, SIU, YSU, WIU....?

...then they don't make the playoffs?xrolleyesx

NDSU never had a tough enough schedule hugh? Then how did they merit a number one ranking last year for weeks? They were ranked over you, Appy, everyone!!! Must have had a cupcake schedule.xlolx

[ElonFirefighter]

So your telling me that a conference that can rearrange 2-6 in the rankings and that won the NC, is not the strongest. The SoCon is packed with talent and is a very powerful conf. We will see who comes out on top in this years match ups, but im betting on it going the SoCon's way

[Syntax Error]

...Then how did they merit a number one ranking last year for weeks?who ranked them #1 for weeks last year?

[KAUMASS]

I can't believe this thread is still going. Some stupid *** reporter makes an off the cuff remark and it has the CAA/SoCon AGS'rs with major rabbit ears come out of the wood works. Why don't we have Citdog fire a shot at Ft. Sumter and have a second war. Let's rename the CAA conference back to the original Yankee Conference name and rename the SoCon the Rebel conference.

This thread is going to go nowwhere as it is not possible to prove who is best as these teams cannot all play each other in a season. There are 3 top conferences in FCS. Missouri Valley(formerly Gateway), SoCon & the CAA. Not necessarily in that order. Every once in a while mix in the Big Sky. Some years these conferences are stronger than others and vice versa. What's the big deal?

[ElonFirefighter]

LOL thats kind of funny, but we shouldn’t give citdog access to that kind of weaponry. Who knows he might blow the whole SEC to hell.

[Reign of Terrier]

LOL thats kind of funny, but we shouldn’t give citdog access to that kind of weaponry. Who knows he might blow the whole SEC to hell.

...The SEC, the socon, FBS,...all states North of Virginia. the list goes on and on...

[BlueHen86]

I can't believe this thread is still going. Some stupid *** reporter makes an off the cuff remark and it has the CAA/SoCon AGS'rs with major rabbit ears come out of the wood works. Why don't we have Citdog fire a shot at Ft. Sumter and have a second war. Let's rename the CAA conference back to the original Yankee Conference name and rename the SoCon the Rebel conference.

This thread is going to go nowwhere as it is not possible to prove who is best as these teams cannot all play each other in a season. There are 3 top conferences in FCS. Missouri Valley(formerly Gateway), SoCon & the CAA. Not necessarily in that order. Every once in a while mix in the Big Sky. Some years these conferences are stronger than others and vice versa. What's the big deal?
Like I said earlier, the elimination games are more worthwhile.
There is a score and they have an ending.

This argument is stupid.

[Saluki Fan in FL]

who ranked them #1 for weeks last year?

Take your pick, but since you are on this board, how bout AGS poll for starts. They were, if you remember, tied with UNI for number one all the way up until their last game when they lost to SDSU. They were undefeated up until then. If they were eligible last year to play in the playoffs, they would have been seeded.

[Saluki Fan in FL]

I can't believe this thread is still going. Some stupid *** reporter makes an off the cuff remark and it has the CAA/SoCon AGS'rs with major rabbit ears come out of the wood works. Why don't we have Citdog fire a shot at Ft. Sumter and have a second war. Let's rename the CAA conference back to the original Yankee Conference name and rename the SoCon the Rebel conference.

This thread is going to go nowwhere as it is not possible to prove who is best as these teams cannot all play each other in a season. There are 3 top conferences in FCS. Missouri Valley(formerly Gateway), SoCon & the CAA. Not necessarily in that order. Every once in a while mix in the Big Sky. Some years these conferences are stronger than others and vice versa. What's the big deal?

Cosign.

[furman94]

IS THE THREAD OFFICIALLY DEAD YET?

END IT NOW!































Thread prnounced dead for the greater good of both of our Conferences!

[BlueHen86]

IS THE THREAD OFFICIALLY DEAD YET?

END IT NOW!

Thread prnounced dead for the greater good of both of our Conferences!
It was dead for a whole 4 hours, until you revived it. Hint: if you want it to die, don't post in it.xlolx

[furman94]

Sorry, just making the rounds!

[ecURguy]

Your SoCon blindness does not allow you to see the measure of what "top to bottom" means. Those of us who 1-live in NC; 2-competed in the old SoCon; 3-now follow CAA; know this analogy is about the depth of the league. For instance, take your #4 best team, (GaS, Furman,Wofford...this gives the top 2 spots to App St. and Elon) and pair against the #4 team in the CAA, (Delaware, JMU, Richmond...this gives the top spot to UMass)

Grasp the photo better now?

[stevdock]

In a heartbeat, give me a team from the Gateway/MVC, we haven't lost to one of their teams in decades.

ANYTIME ANYWHERE

[mainejeff]

Appalachian State = USC
CAA = SEC

I think that is a pretty good comparison over the last 5 years.

[Skjellyfetti]

Appalachian State = USC
CAA = SEC

I think that is a pretty good comparison over the last 5 years.

Except that App has won more titles than USC the last 5 years and the SEC has won more titles than the CAA.

[james_lawfirm]

Is it time for kickoff yet?

You fellers appear to need it worser than I.

I propose that college football should be an Olympic sport. Nevermind the fact that no other countries' colleges or universities play it. Any seconds?

[Tribe4SF]

Is it time for kickoff yet?

You fellers appear to need it worser than I.

I propose that college football should be an Olympic sport. Nevermind the fact that no other countries' colleges or universities play it. Any seconds?

Japanese colleges play. W&M traveled there in '88 and '92 for the Epson Ivy Bowl. Some pretty funny incidents.

-After defeating a team of Japanese collegiate all-stars in '88 by a 73-3 margin, a Japanese reporter asked Jimmye Laycock..."You are known as a passing team. Why did you decide to run so much?". The Tribe had rushed for over 500 yards, mostly in the first half. Laycock was speechless.

-Tribe o-lineman reported that when they came to the line for the first play, Japanese defensive linemen were jabbering to each other, and laughing hysterically. When asked what was so funny they replied..."You guys huge!".

[introvertedGSUfan]

I propose that college football should be an Olympic sport. Nevermind the fact that no other countries' colleges or universities play it. Any seconds?

Wrong!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Universities_American_Football_League

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIS_football

[furman94]

Japanese colleges play. W&M traveled there in '88 and '92 for the Epson Ivy Bowl. Some pretty funny incidents.

-After defeating a team of Japanese collegiate all-stars in '88 by a 73-3 margin, a Japanese reporter asked Jimmye Laycock..."You are known as a passing team. Why did you decide to run so much?". The Tribe had rushed for over 500 yards, mostly in the first half. Laycock was speechless.

-Tribe o-lineman reported that when they came to the line for the first play, Japanese defensive linemen were jabbering to each other, and laughing hysterically. When asked what was so funny they replied..."You guys huge!".

Wow! I would love to do something like that! :D

[furman94]

The Simon Fraser University Clan of the CIS football has a stadium that they share with the soccer team Vancouver Whitecaps... Clan? Whitecaps? What's going on in Canada?

[IndianaAppMan]

Appalachian State = USC
CAA = SEC

I think that is a pretty good comparison over the last 5 years.

Over the last 10 seasons, the CAA has won 3 national titles, the SEC 5 (I'm including Auburn '04, dadgummit), and the SoCon 5.
Advantage: SoCon

National title game appearances: SEC-4; CAA-5; SoCon-6.
Advantage: SoCon

xcoffeex

By the way, as far as the top-to-bottom argument goes, I would, as a matter of fact, pick the SoCon's middle-tier teams from last year (Wofford, The Citadel, Elon, Ga. Southern, and even Furman) over the CAA's middle-tier teams. Why? Look at what those teams were able to do against the best team in the FCS last year. Two of those were able to finish the job that JMU could not. The SoCon's bottom teams are as bad as the CAA's.

[DFW HOYA]

So as the Colonial is dominant in the East, is it affecting the Patriot, etc.-- i.e., are the other Eastern conferences falling by the wayside or holding its own?

[IndianaAppMan]

So as the Colonial is dominant in the East, is it affecting the Patriot, etc.-- i.e., are the other Eastern conferences falling by the wayside or holding its own?

maybe to a degree.

quality players that are smart enough to get into Ivy or the elite Patriot League schools are still going to go to those schools. The CAA won't take away those players.

then again, being the only 63-scholarship league in the northeast certainly is a distinct advantage.

[GannonFan]

By the way, as far as the top-to-bottom argument goes, I would, as a matter of fact, pick the SoCon's middle-tier teams from last year (Wofford, The Citadel, Elon, Ga. Southern, and even Furman) over the CAA's middle-tier teams. Why? Look at what those teams were able to do against the best team in the FCS last year. Two of those were able to finish the job that JMU could not. The SoCon's bottom teams are as bad as the CAA's.

Huh? Wofford got beat by double digits, at home, last year to Richmond in the playoffs. And Furman got beat by more than 2TD's to a Hofstra team that went on to lose 40-3 to UNH (on the same field as the Furman game). So right off the bat 2 of your 5 picks you would take over the CAA lost head to head matchups against the CAA (of course, Hofstra wasn't even a middle-tier team last year so that's an even more pronounced loss). And heck, Elon lost to that same Furman team now that I think of it. Facts are starting to get in the way of opinion.

[GannonFan]

maybe to a degree.

quality players that are smart enough to get into Ivy or the elite Patriot League schools are still going to go to those schools. The CAA won't take away those players.

then again, being the only 63-scholarship league in the northeast certainly is a distinct advantage.

Again, huh? Sure, UMass isn't a bastion of academic prestige, but first of all you have W&M in the CAA, are you saying those guys can't get into Lafayette or Lehigh? And there are plenty of pretty smart guys in a handful of schools throughout the CAA that can and do get into those schools you are talking about. And heck, it's common knowledge that many Ivy League schools do some fair amount of athletic recruiting and will lower the bar for some sports, football included. I'm not sure you're familiar enough with the schools in the northeast (and of course, that includes the mid-Atlantic all the way down to Virginia) to make some of the claims you are throwing out there.

[IndianaAppMan]

Again, huh? Sure, UMass isn't a bastion of academic prestige, but first of all you have W&M in the CAA, are you saying those guys can't get into Lafayette or Lehigh? And there are plenty of pretty smart guys in a handful of schools throughout the CAA that can and do get into those schools you are talking about. And heck, it's common knowledge that many Ivy League schools do some fair amount of athletic recruiting and will lower the bar for some sports, football included. I'm not sure you're familiar enough with the schools in the northeast (and of course, that includes the mid-Atlantic all the way down to Virginia) to make some of the claims you are throwing out there.

Relax, man! I was responding to DFWHoya's question, not attacking the CAA or its member universities. I know how solid schools are in the CAA. I don't know if it's what you intended, but I'm not real crazy about the condescending tone you seem to be putting off.

My argument was that talented football players who are also extremely smart would be more likely to choose the Ivy League or a Patriot League school. I'm implying that, as a whole, the Patriot League is more academically elite than the CAA is, as a whloe. At no point did I say that W&M players (or any other school's players) couldn't get into Lafayette or Lehigh. BAnd sure, I'm not so stupid that I don't realize that all schools, including the Ivys, make admission a bit easier for athletes than the rest of the student body. BUT, the Ivys & the PL schools have an advantage in recruiting the smartest athletes. In fact, I'd argue that that may be their only hope in recruiting against the CAA. Still, a lot of those smart players will still choose CAA schools because their academics are still elite, and they offer a better level of competition.

If it's that important to prove me wrong, compare the SAT scores, or GPA's or whatever, between all the CAA football teams and all the PL teams. I think that would be a waste of energy. Again, my point was to respond to the question of whether the other northeastern conferences would continue to be weakened. I think, yes, but only to an extent.

[BlueHen86]

Huh? Wofford got beat by double digits, at home, last year to Richmond in the playoffs. And Furman got beat by more than 2TD's to a Hofstra team that went on to lose 40-3 to UNH (on the same field as the Furman game). So right off the bat 2 of your 5 picks you would take over the CAA lost head to head matchups against the CAA (of course, Hofstra wasn't even a middle-tier team last year so that's an even more pronounced loss). And heck, Elon lost to that same Furman team now that I think of it. Facts are starting to get in the way of opinion.

Nice.

[IndianaAppMan]

Huh? Wofford got beat by double digits, at home, last year to Richmond in the playoffs. And Furman got beat by more than 2TD's to a Hofstra team that went on to lose 40-3 to UNH (on the same field as the Furman game). So right off the bat 2 of your 5 picks you would take over the CAA lost head to head matchups against the CAA (of course, Hofstra wasn't even a middle-tier team last year so that's an even more pronounced loss). And heck, Elon lost to that same Furman team now that I think of it. Facts are starting to get in the way of opinion.

Wofford beat App. Richmond beat Wofford. App beat Richmond. So who's the best? As was proved in the playoffs, it was a team from the SoCon. By far.

Furman loses early in the season 800 miles from home to a team it shouldn't have lost to. Big deal. I remember in '98 when Florida State lost their second game of the year to NC State, a team that went on to one of the toilet bowl games. FSU still ended up the national championship game. When a team loses in an upset, it doesn't mean it's not good, let alone its whole conference.

By the way, this supposedly mediocre was a lot closer to beating App than either Richmond or Delaware, and it was just as close as JMU was.

To answer the Elon question, that Elon team lost just as many conference games (3) as Delaware did. What kept them out of the playoffs was their close loss to South Florida. Had they played Samford last year, they very well could have taken a CAA team's spot.

As for The Citadel, they, too, were victims of the tough SoCon, and it kept them out of the playoffs. They played Wisconsin, Outback Bowl team, pretty dang tough for three quarters.

Bottom line is that the second-best and a middle-tier SoCon team could beat the class of the FCS, and the top-tier teams of the CAA could not.

[BlueHen86]

Wofford beat App. Richmond beat Wofford. App beat Richmond. So who's the best? As was proved in the playoffs, it was a team from the SoCon. By far.

Furman loses early in the season 800 miles from home to a team it shouldn't have lost to. Big deal. I remember in '98 when Florida State lost their second game of the year to NC State, a team that went on to one of the toilet bowl games. FSU still ended up the national championship game. When a team loses in an upset, it doesn't mean it's not good, let alone its whole conference.

By the way, this supposedly mediocre was a lot closer to beating App than either Richmond or Delaware, and it was just as close as JMU was.

To answer the Elon question, that Elon team lost just as many conference games (3) as Delaware did. What kept them out of the playoffs was their close loss to South Florida. Had they played Samford last year, they very well could have taken a CAA team's spot.

As for The Citadel, they, too, were victims of the tough SoCon, and it kept them out of the playoffs. They played Wisconsin, Outback Bowl team, pretty dang tough for three quarters.

Bottom line is that the second-best and a middle-tier SoCon team could beat the class of the FCS, and the top-tier teams of the CAA could not.
In your own words...relax man.
Your posts are so long nobody is going to read them.xlolx
Besides, who cares?

[Reign of Terrier]

Huh? Wofford got beat by double digits, at home, last year to Richmond in the playoffs. And Furman got beat by more than 2TD's to a Hofstra team that went on to lose 40-3 to UNH (on the same field as the Furman game). So right off the bat 2 of your 5 picks you would take over the CAA lost head to head matchups against the CAA (of course, Hofstra wasn't even a middle-tier team last year so that's an even more pronounced loss). And heck, Elon lost to that same Furman team now that I think of it. Facts are starting to get in the way of opinion.

Wofford was losing 14- 10 and fumbled the snap for the punt inside the 5 and Richmond scored and killed all of our hope, it was a game than the final score tells. last year was one of the worst years for furman in a while (enough said) and Elo was talented last year but EXTREMELY Young which led to inconsistency in their play, injuries hurt them as well. Before you drag down other people's teams please know more about them.

[YoUDeeMan]

Wofford beat App. Richmond beat Wofford. App beat Richmond. So who's the best? As was proved in the playoffs, it was a team from the SoCon. By far.

Furman loses early in the season 800 miles from home to a team it shouldn't have lost to. Big deal. I remember in '98 when Florida State lost their second game of the year to NC State, a team that went on to one of the toilet bowl games. FSU still ended up the national championship game. When a team loses in an upset, it doesn't mean it's not good, let alone its whole conference.

By the way, this supposedly mediocre was a lot closer to beating App than either Richmond or Delaware, and it was just as close as JMU was.

To answer the Elon question, that Elon team lost just as many conference games (3) as Delaware did. What kept them out of the playoffs was their close loss to South Florida. Had they played Samford last year, they very well could have taken a CAA team's spot.

As for The Citadel, they, too, were victims of the tough SoCon, and it kept them out of the playoffs. They played Wisconsin, Outback Bowl team, pretty dang tough for three quarters.

Bottom line is that the second-best and a middle-tier SoCon team could beat the class of the FCS, and the top-tier teams of the CAA could not.

Hey, way to lose touch with reality. So, Hofstra didn't really beat Furman? And Richmond didn't beat Woffy because they lost to another team later? xrolleyesx If you want to argue about "close games: and how some teams shouldn't have lost an away game then look no further than JMU. They beat ASU up and down the field and lost a game they had no business losing. They manhandled Appy. Kinda' tosses that "by far" right out the window, doesn't it?

Continuing your localized view of reality, ASU lost to a CAA team in the first round and Woffy lost (or did they?) to a CAA team in the second. There goes your SoCon dominance. xeekx

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[furman94]

BLAH BLAH BLAH! Settle it on the field!

[ericsaid]

In your own words...relax man.
Your posts are so long nobody is going to read them.xlolx
Besides, who cares?

Someone who doesn't understand them.xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xthumbsupx

Which i'm guessing judging by that post is YOU.xpeacex

[Saluki Fan in FL]

furman94

[IndianaAppMan]

Hey, way to lose touch with reality. So, Hofstra didn't really beat Furman? And Richmond didn't beat Woffy because they lost to another team later? xrolleyesx If you want to argue about "close games: and how some teams shouldn't have lost an away game then look no further than JMU. They beat ASU up and down the field and lost a game they had no business losing. They manhandled Appy. Kinda' tosses that "by far" right out the window, doesn't it?

Continuing your localized view of reality, ASU lost to a CAA team in the first round and Woffy lost (or did they?) to a CAA team in the second. There goes your SoCon dominance. xeekx

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

Yup. Hofstra upset Furman fair and square. Therefore the CAA is better than the SoCon? Wow. xlolx That's definitive evidence. xrolleyesx And yeah, they shouldn't have lost the game, not because they outplayed Hofstra, but because they failed to play their potential. Furman's potential showed up in the way they played App, which was just as close as the JMU game. It also showed up against a very game Elon team.

JMU played its minds out... and still lost to a team that was better.

Richmond beating Wofford is a weak argument for CAA superiority or SoCon superiority because of the Wofford-beats-App-beats-Richmond-beats-Wofford circular reasoning.

Both conferences lacked a dominant team, which points to the strengths of both conferences. Therefore I look at what the SoCon's record was against CAA teams, particularly in the playoffs.

Pointing just to Richmond beating Wofford as a reason why CAA is superior while dismissing App's victories is just like a Big Ten fan pointing to Michigan beating Florida for Big Ten superiority while ignoring all the other bowl games against the SEC.

Some of this will get settled on the field this fall, anyway.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Yup. Hofstra upset Furman fair and square. Therefore the CAA is better than the SoCon? Wow. xlolx That's definitive evidence. xrolleyesx And yeah, they shouldn't have lost the game, not because they outplayed Hofstra, but because they failed to play their potential. Furman's potential showed up in the way they played App, which was just as close as the JMU game. It also showed up against a very game Elon team.

JMU played its minds out... and still lost to a team that was better.

Richmond beating Wofford is a weak argument for CAA superiority or SoCon superiority because of the Wofford-beats-App-beats-Richmond-beats-Wofford circular reasoning.

Both conferences lacked a dominant team, which points to the strengths of both conferences. Therefore I look at what the SoCon's record was against CAA teams, particularly in the playoffs.

Pointing just to Richmond beating Wofford as a reason why CAA is superior while dismissing App's victories is just like a Big Ten fan pointing to Michigan beating Florida for Big Ten superiority while ignoring all the other bowl games against the SEC.

Some of this will get settled on the field this fall, anyway.

Not really, not enough games between our two leagues. JMHO xpeacex

I for one don't use the Richmond win over Wofford as an example of CAA superiority. (Frankly, I've never voiced the opinion that the CAA is superior or dominant over the SoCon.) I do use it as an example of how it was App superiority over the CAA in the playoffs not SoCon superiority.

[GannonFan]

Pointing just to Richmond beating Wofford as a reason why CAA is superior while dismissing App's victories is just like a Big Ten fan pointing to Michigan beating Florida for Big Ten superiority while ignoring all the other bowl games against the SEC.


You were the one who went to the argument that the teams other than the top team in the SoCon could be the teams other than the top team in the CAA (using the playoffs last year that would be UD) so basically you are the one who started this train of thought. I take it now that you are mocking your own idea that you disagree with yourself now? :p

[YoUDeeMan]

Yup. Hofstra upset Furman fair and square. Therefore the CAA is better than the SoCon? Wow. xlolx That's definitive evidence. xrolleyesx And yeah, they shouldn't have lost the game, not because they outplayed Hofstra, but because they failed to play their potential. Furman's potential showed up in the way they played App, which was just as close as the JMU game. It also showed up against a very game Elon team.

JMU played its minds out... and still lost to a team that was better.

Richmond beating Wofford is a weak argument for CAA superiority or SoCon superiority because of the Wofford-beats-App-beats-Richmond-beats-Wofford circular reasoning.

Both conferences lacked a dominant team, which points to the strengths of both conferences. Therefore I look at what the SoCon's record was against CAA teams, particularly in the playoffs.

Pointing just to Richmond beating Wofford as a reason why CAA is superior while dismissing App's victories is just like a Big Ten fan pointing to Michigan beating Florida for Big Ten superiority while ignoring all the other bowl games against the SEC.

Some of this will get settled on the field this fall, anyway.

Wait, now you are arguing that Fruman was potentially better then Hofstra? And by your reasoning, Woffy was potentially better the UR? xeyebrowx xlolx

Get a grip. You might not be able to make it back to this reality if you keep going that far. xlolx

Ol' Mickey says that they were the champs if their back had stayed healthy. xrolleyesx Richmond, was potentially better than ASU. Imagine if they had their lines and Hightower healthy. xwhistlex And UD only was without 40% of it's starting OL and 1/2 of their D line was injured. But potentially...wow. :D

And they give out potential trophies...uh, where?????

xdizzyx

Back to this reality...JMU played their regular game - they didn't play their minds out. I know you aren't used to seeing quality teams down there, so you might think JMU played out of their minds, but they just dominated a rather weak ASU run defense. The only ones who played out of their minds were Armanti (on a regular basis..he's that good) and the MEAC refs. "First down, Delaware State!" xeekx xoopsx xlolx

BTW, another real reality is that Woffy beat ASU without a healthy Armanti - count ASU out in each of their playoff games without him...potentially. xnodx xeyebrowx xlolx

[BDKJMU]

UD has been playing West Chester at the 'Tub' on a yearly basis for 40 years and until about 10 years ago.. WCU was able to play fairly competitve games vs the Hens. However, those type WCU teams are long gone and the WCU series really needs to be ended. I'd love to see UD replace WCU with any of the following...

1 - Penn
2 - Princeton
3 - any Patriot League team
4 - Del St or another MEAC school

however the key is that who ever replaces WCU has to be willing to come to Delaware without a requiring a home/home agreement. Unless that happens we may see WCU for another 40 yrs.... :(

Penn, Princeton and DSU would make sense even if they were rotated, as they are all (if I'm correct) less than an hrs drive.

Sure you could find other I-AA to come to UD every season, but that will cost $, whatever is usually paid out to a DII. What would that cost every season, 50k? I'm sure other high attendance 20k+ I-AA like Montana, YSU, ASU get different teams to come every year without getting a home game . I know UD has done that with Lehigh, Albany, Monmouth, etc right? I assume that costs $ to get another school to do that.

Bottom line its not good to be the only CAA still be scheduling a DII.

[ChickenMan]

http://www.neowin.net/forum/fun/thread_wont_die.jpg

but even if it did.. it would just be reborn in few months... :p

[ericsaid]

Wait, now you are arguing that Fruman was potentially better then Hofstra? And by your reasoning, Woffy was potentially better the UR? xeyebrowx xlolx

Get a grip. You might not be able to make it back to this reality if you keep going that far. xlolx

Ol' Mickey says that they were the champs if their back had stayed healthy. xrolleyesx Richmond, was potentially better than ASU. Imagine if they had their lines and Hightower healthy. xwhistlex And UD only was without 40% of it's starting OL and 1/2 of their D line was injured. But potentially...wow. :D

And they give out potential trophies...uh, where?????

xdizzyx

Back to this reality...JMU played their regular game - they didn't play their minds out. I know you aren't used to seeing quality teams down there, so you might think JMU played out of their minds, but they just dominated a rather weak ASU run defense. The only ones who played out of their minds were Armanti (on a regular basis..he's that good) and the MEAC refs. "First down, Delaware State!" xeekx xoopsx xlolx

BTW, another real reality is that Woffy beat ASU without a healthy Armanti - count ASU out in each of their playoff games without him...potentially. xnodx xeyebrowx xlolx

I heard the potential trophies were even nicer than the ones you got for actually winning!!!!xeekx xpeacex

[ericsaid]

Wait, now you are arguing that Fruman was potentially better then Hofstra? And by your reasoning, Woffy was potentially better the UR? xeyebrowx xlolx

Get a grip. You might not be able to make it back to this reality if you keep going that far. xlolx

Ol' Mickey says that they were the champs if their back had stayed healthy. xrolleyesx Richmond, was potentially better than ASU. Imagine if they had their lines and Hightower healthy. xwhistlex And UD only was without 40% of it's starting OL and 1/2 of their D line was injured. But potentially...wow. :D

And they give out potential trophies...uh, where?????

xdizzyx

Back to this reality...JMU played their regular game - they didn't play their minds out. I know you aren't used to seeing quality teams down there, so you might think JMU played out of their minds, but they just dominated a rather weak ASU run defense. The only ones who played out of their minds were Armanti (on a regular basis..he's that good) and the MEAC refs. "First down, Delaware State!" xeekx xoopsx xlolx

BTW, another real reality is that Woffy beat ASU without a healthy Armanti - count ASU out in each of their playoff games without him...potentially. xnodx xeyebrowx xlolx


Did you know that Woffy(new name hopfully it picks up) ran a flexbone offense? One of App's weaknesses last year was against the run(who knew?) They played in the top rushing conference in the FCS NATION. Who knew? So really holding teams to 200 yards was a good day when going against run first teams almost every game. Holding Hightower and Cuff to under 100 yards in back to back weeks was a statement to how strong the SoCon's rushing attack really is. Just a thought? Also holding Flacco to completing under 50% of his passes during the NC was nice. App beat to first day QB draft picks in the same year, whoever thought that would happen?xrolleyesx ;)

[Go...gate]

In '03 Wofford lost to Delaware in the semis. We played better than the team in the championship, you could give us .5 a runner up?:D

How do you know you could have beaten us? That was a hell of a Colgate team and we lost to arguably one of the best I-AA teams in history.

[ericsaid]

How do you know you could have beaten us? That was a hell of a Colgate team and we lost to arguably one of the best I-AA teams in history.


The GSU's and YSU's even though I know nothing about them have a strong argument for the best 1-aa teams in history. Just had to throw that out there.