Should Joe Paterno Soldier on past the '08 season?

[Marcus Garvey]

I grew up a huge Penn St. fan as a kid. Even through college, I loved Penn St. football and always planned my New Year's Day work schedule according to their bowl game. But, much like all those hippies who grew up, "sold out" and voted for Reagan, I can't stand Penn State football these days.

There's no denying Joe Paterno built that program up from a regional school playing a week Eastern schedule to a national powerhouse. In recent years, the program has achieved levels of "suck" that were unthinkable 20 years ago. Should Joe Pa be allowed to contine soiling his boxers on the Penn State sideline after this year if he wishes to?

[Grizalltheway]

***** Garvey, why so hard on the old dude? :( They were in a pretty high level bowl game a few years ago.

[griz37]

I love Joe Pa, Michigan has beaten him 9 consecutive seasons, I say Joe Pa stays & OSU brings back John Cooper! xnodx

[Marcus Garvey]

***** Garvey, why so hard on the old dude? :( They were in a pretty high level bowl game a few years ago.

Yeah, one season out of the previous 8.
I'm tired of the mediocrity. I'm tired of the discipline problems that were non-existent 15 years ago. I'm tired of the Big 10, which they are in because JoePa pushed for it. I'm tired of the excuses everyone gives for the old man that "he has earned the right leave on his own terms."
It's the combination of the above. Any one on their own is not enough.

*****... in any other business, he'd have been forced out to avoid running the company into the ground. Auggie Bush III forced his father out at Anheiser-Bush in the 70's when it became obvious he was a dottering old fool who allowed the company to lapse. I see little difference here

Unless of course football is not a priority at Penn St. In that case, allow JoePa to run the program into the ground and they can go back to scheduling Villanova, Holy Cross, Penn and Boston U. Although, the way things are, I suspect they'd still find a way to lose to the Terriers! xlolx xlolx

[jstate83]

After watching ESPN's "Outside the Line's" this past weekend, I'm convinced that Joe Pa has lost his mind.xnodx

Everytime something come's up, he go into his little innocent old man routine.

"I don't know", "What can I tell you, none of that is true", etc. xnonono2x

If those player had done any of that stuff down here, ganging up on people beating them down, or even worse running up in someone's apartment fighting, all of them would have been dead..............NOT HURT.............SHOT DEAD.
And that's the sad truth. xsmhx

When one of his player's do catch a bullet for this kind of mess, then all hell will break loose.
One day they gonna jump on the wrong one and that WRONG ONE will get on the phone and call in some real homeboy's on their ass. xnodx

[Marcus Garvey]

After watching ESPN's "Outside the Line's" this past weekend, I'm convinced that Joe Pa has lost his mind.xnodx

Everytime something come's up, he go into his little innocent old man routine."I don't know", "What can I tell you, none of that is true", etc. xnonono2x




He's like that old guy who lived next door to your parents when you were growing up. Old "Mr. Kupinski" was a decent guy... a bit rough around the edges, but a nice man who always said hello and would help a neighbor. But when you visit the folks now, "old man Kupinski" is a crotchety old dude nothing nice to say to anyone. Not only that, but his lawn and home, which used to be immaculately maintained, is becoming rundown and overgrown... xsmhx

[jstate83]

He's like that old guy who lived next door to your parents when you were growing up. Old "Mr. Kupinski" was a decent guy... a bit rough around the edges, but a nice man who always said hello and would help a neighbor. But when you visit the folks now, "old man Kupinski" is a crotchety old dude nothing nice to say to anyone. Not only that, but his lawn and home, which used to be immaculately maintained, is becoming rundown and overgrown... xsmhx

Damm. xsmhx

He may still be the man with a shat load of power and influence, but he has lost control of that team.
It's only going to get worse.

The only reason Penn State football is not compared to a team like the old MIAMI is because of his image and the power Penn State has to keep shat as quiet.

[ngineer]

I think if PSU has a good year he'll continue on. A losing season could well send him on his way. On balance, Joe has been alot better for the Game then most of the princes who have roamed the sidelines and has earned the consideration. I do not believe he will stay, on his own terms, if he truly felt his presence was detrimental.

[catamount man]

I love Joe Pa, Michigan has beaten him 9 consecutive seasons, I say Joe Pa stays & OSU brings back John Cooper! xnodx

Umm...UM and PSU didn't play in 2003 and 2004 so it's ACTUALLY been just 3 CONSECUTIVE seasons. ;) ;) ;)

But yes, UM owns his ass. xthumbsupx

[Grizalltheway]

Yeah, one season out of the previous 8.
I'm tired of the mediocrity. I'm tired of the discipline problems that were non-existent 15 years ago. I'm tired of the Big 10, which they are in because JoePa pushed for it. I'm tired of the excuses everyone gives for the old man that "he has earned the right leave on his own terms."
It's the combination of the above. Any one on their own is not enough.

*****... in any other business, he'd have been forced out to avoid running the company into the ground. Auggie Bush III forced his father out at Anheiser-Bush in the 70's when it became obvious he was a dottering old fool who allowed the company to lapse. I see little difference here

Unless of course football is not a priority at Penn St. In that case, allow JoePa to run the program into the ground and they can go back to scheduling Villanova, Holy Cross, Penn and Boston U. Although, the way things are, I suspect they'd still find a way to lose to the Terriers! xlolx xlolx

That's it, you're going on my *****list. xrulesx xsmhx

[patssle]

Penn State will NEVER fire him. He will stop coaching when he wants to/dies. You do not fire legends, regardless of their performance.

[Franks Tanks]

I have been a Penn State fan my entire life. Every member of my family that went to college went their except me. Dad, sister, uncles, aunts, and cousins--all Penn State grads (well not all grads). My first sports memory was Penn State's 83' Sugar Bowl victory to claim the title, every male member of my family was at the game in person, however I was too young to go xmadx.

I think that since 1999 or so Joe's coaching (or lack there of) and his running of the team has been detrimental to the program. They would have been better off since then with another young dynamic coach.

With all that said Joe should be able to decide when to call its quits. He brought Penn State from a marginal regional team to a national power, and helped form the university from a "cow college" to one of america's great public universities partially with pub and money generated by the team. He is also one of the game's great ambassadors, and until recently ran what was perhaps the model major college program through his "grand experiment" of combining athletic and academic success. Yes he is currently underachieving and a potential liability, but without the icon Penn State isnt Penn State and he deserves to stay until he quits or dies. ( I still think he may die first)

[813Jag]

Joe Pa = Bobby B. It's about time for them to go. Noone wants to see a coach stay around too long. The great Eddie Robinson stayed at Grambling about two years too long.

[OhioHen]

He should have retired ten years ago. When that didn't happen, PSU should have simply not renewed his contract the next year.

[bluehenbillk]

The only reason I can believe people would want JoePa to stay is if you have a rooting interest for another Big 10 team. The PSU program has fallen mightily in a number of ways & all you had to do was watch OTL on ESPN this weekend to see how out of touch the guy is.

[Franks Tanks]

He should have retired ten years ago. When that didn't happen, PSU should have simply not renewed his contract the next year.

Would you have fired Tubby after 2 or 3 bad season (Joe has had more then 2 or 3 bad season granted, but is also a much larger figure then Tubby)

[89Hen]

I think the time has come and gone. UVA went through this with George Welsh. Obviously not to quite the same standard or tenure, but he was the one responsible for taking that program from a laughing stock that played before 28,000 fans to a regular bowl team that was able to expand the stadium to 65,000 (Groh is trying to return them to a laughing stock xoopsx ). As much as Welsh meant to UVA, they somewhat gracefully moved him to a different position.

FWIW, I too grew up a Penn State fan (second to the Hens) as all of my cousins went to PSU and my family is from PA. One of my earliest memories of college football was everyone rushing out of the church at my cousin's wedding in the early 70's to cram around a transistor radio to listen the PSU/Bama game... may have been a battle of #1 vs #2 IIRC.

[Ivytalk]

I agree that it's time for him to go, although I had a different opinion last time this came up. Both Marcus and jstate83 make good points, and I'm persuaded.xpeacex

[BlueHen86]

I think Joe wants to stay long enough to get the all-time FBS wins lead. He'll coach as long as B. Bowden coaches.

[Appaholic]

JoePa has been an asset to the game and has taken Penn State to lofty heights. That being said, he supposedly wants to continue to be head coach and work from home more??....give it up, step aside.....he's being selfish to the detriment of his players and the program......

[89Hen]

Has anyone else seen the interview from 1986ish when Paterno is talking about 5 more years max? I saw it on ESPN a week or so ago but can't find the clip anywhere on the web.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

I think Joe wants to stay long enough to get the all-time FBS wins lead. He'll coach as long as B. Bowden coaches.

That's what this is really about for both of them... they're both so damned obsessed with the record that they'll be there 'til one drops dead. the other one will then coach until they've passed the dead guy, and hang it up right after.

seems awfully self-interested for a couple of guys who preach "team"

[appfan2008]

its time... he has lost control of his program... its sad but it is what it is

[Franks Tanks]

Has anyone else seen the interview from 1986ish when Paterno is talking about 5 more years max? I saw it on ESPN a week or so ago but can't find the clip anywhere on the web.


I have seen old clips and comments of Joe saying 5 more years in the late 70's!!! That is his standard line to defray talk as 5 years is the time it takes one recruiting class to cycle through, therefore he can tell recruits he will be there for the given recruiting class's entire time at the school.

[OhioHen]

Would you have fired Tubby after 2 or 3 bad season (Joe has had more then 2 or 3 bad season granted, but is also a much larger figure then Tubby)

The Hens never had a run of bad/mediocre seasons under Tubby like Penn State has had with Paterno. And Tubby wasn't older than Methuselah!

[andy7171]

And Tubby wasn't older than Methuselah!

Maybe, but he was just as senile!

[Grizaholic17]

its time... he has lost control of his program... its sad but it is what it is

What exactly do you mean?

They were 9-4 last year and won their bowl game against Tennessee by 10. That is impressive.

[813Jag]

I think Joe wants to stay long enough to get the all-time FBS wins lead. He'll coach as long as B. Bowden coaches.
With the JV team the 'Noles will be putting on the field this year he'll catch Bobby before to long. xnonono2x

[Marcus Garvey]

What exactly do you mean?

They were 9-4 last year and won their bowl game against Tennessee by 10. That is impressive.

Actually, it's not that impressive when you think about it.
Yeah, they were "8-4" in the regular season, but they were 4-4 in Big 10 play, with losses to Illinois, Michigan, Ohio St. and Mich. St. That makes them a mid-tier Big 10 team.
Their 4 non-conf regular season wins were agains Florida International, Notre Dame, Buffalo and Temple. 2 MAC, 1 Sun Belt and 1 very bad Ind. with a combined record of 13-35. Throw in the fact that they beat a 7-6 Texas A&M team (not Tennessee) by 7 points (not 10), and that's even less impressive that I thought before I started typing this.

[Grizaholic17]

Actually, it's not that impressive when you think about it.
Yeah, they were "8-4" in the regular season, but they were 4-4 in Big 10 play, with losses to Illinois, Michigan, Ohio St. and Mich. St. That makes them a mid-tier Big 10 team.
Their 4 non-conf regular season wins were agains Florida International, Notre Dame, Buffalo and Temple. 2 MAC, 1 Sun Belt and 1 very bad Ind. with a combined record of 13-35. Throw in the fact that they beat a 7-6 Texas A&M team (not Tennessee) by 7 points (not 10), and that's even less impressive that I thought before I started typing this.

Okay, but the year before they lost to Notre Dame, Michigan, Ohio State, and Wisconsin. And 2006 was the year with Tennessee, sorry. All of those losses being to formidable opponents. And Illinois last year was ranked in the top 10 for a lot of the end season. I just don't think it's right to say Paterno is losing control or not doing a good job. If anyone can get the job done, it's him.

[Marcus Garvey]

Okay, but the year before they lost to Notre Dame, Michigan, Ohio State, and Wisconsin. And 2006 was the year with Tennessee, sorry. All of those losses being to formidable opponents. And Illinois last year was ranked in the top 10 for a lot of the end season. I just don't think it's right to say Paterno is losing control or not doing a good job. If anyone can get the job done, it's him.

THey have a term for a team that wins more than it loses, but never beats the "formidable" teams. That term is: "Purdue Boilermakers."

You can substitute "Maryland Terrapins" if you'd like as well.

[Franks Tanks]

Okay, but the year before they lost to Notre Dame, Michigan, Ohio State, and Wisconsin. And 2006 was the year with Tennessee, sorry. All of those losses being to formidable opponents. And Illinois last year was ranked in the top 10 for a lot of the end season. I just don't think it's right to say Paterno is losing control or not doing a good job. If anyone can get the job done, it's him.

The program has slipped to medicority by Penn State standards. 4 loss campaigns and an annual beat down by Michigan and Ohio State are not satisfying to State fans. Penn State should only lose 1 or 2 games most years with their schedule, and be in the hunt for the Big Ten title nearly every year considering their status as one of the conferences marquee programs. Unfortunantly I dont see this happening under JoePA, but I cant imagine Penn State without him--quite a predicament. Also their strength and conditioning program is terrible. They still get plenty of stud recruits who dont progress nearly enough strength and speed wise while at State College.

[Marcus Garvey]

The program has slipped to medicority by Penn State standards. 4 loss campaigns and an annual beat down by Michigan and Ohio State are not satisfying to State fans. Penn State should only lose 1 or 2 games most years with their schedule, and be in the hunt for the Big Ten title nearly every year considering their status as one of the conferences marquee programs. Unfortunantly I dont see this happening under JoePA, but I cant imagine Penn State without him--quite a predicament. Also their strength and conditioning program is terrible. They still get plenty of stud recruits who dont progress nearly enough strength and speed wise while at State College.

Whoever replaces JoePa (Bradley???) will have a harder time than Joe did 20 years ago. Penn St. got to be a national power by first becomming the top program in the Northeast. There's a lot of talent in PA, NJ and, to an extent, NY State. Penn St. had first pick of that talent for years. Yeah, occassionally WVU, Pitt, Syracuse and B.C. presented itself as a challenger to Penn St.'s status as "Top Dog of the East," but none of those lasted more than a few seasons.

With Penn State "down" the last 8 years, UConn, B.C. and WVU have all elevated their game. Rutgers has emerged as a recruiting threat, and Pitt, while already recruiting top talent, may take the next step on the field this year. The next coach at Penn St. will have recruting rivals that were unimaginable 25 years ago.

[Franks Tanks]

Whoever replaces JoePa (Bradley???) will have a harder time than Joe did 20 years ago. Penn St. got to be a national power by first becomming the top program in the Northeast. There's a lot of talent in PA, NJ and, to an extent, NY State. Penn St. had first pick of that talent for years. Yeah, occassionally WVU, Pitt, Syracuse and B.C. presented itself as a challenger to Penn St.'s status as "Top Dog of the East," but none of those lasted more than a few seasons.

With Penn State "down" the last 8 years, UConn, B.C. and WVU have all elevated their game. Rutgers has emerged as a recruiting threat, and Pitt, while already recruiting top talent, may take the next step on the field this year. The next coach at Penn St. will have recruting rivals that were unimaginable 25 years ago.

This is all 100% true, but an elevated Penn State should be able to once again retain more of this top talent. Bradley is an expert recruiter nabbing guys like Lavar Arrington for Penn State.

Dont forget Pitt attracted top PA talent for a time as well with guys like Marino, Hugh Green, Mark May, Dorsett, Fralic etc. so they did have competition back then too. Not to mention Notre Dame pulling talent from PA pretty often as well. But recruiting has just changed so much--kids are just looking to play often and early today allowing for more talent dissementaion.