Highest Crowd Average in I-AA???

[wkukid]

Here at WKU the goal is the average to 15k if we want to move to I-A. Last year the average was a pathetic 9k but this year were around 13k.

So what school has the highest average in I-AA?

[Cap'n Cat]

Pray tell, why would WKU move to I-A?

Check out attendance here:

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/mainpage.jsp



Jesus H. Christ!

Northern Iowa - SIXTH in Gateway attendance??????? Behind even Missouri State??????? I can accept and understand WKU and YSU, but sheeeeeit!!!!

Man, oh, man.................SMFH...............what has happened to my precious alma mammy???

http://www.quantrimang.com/images/head-in-hands.jpg

:nonono2: :nonono2: :nonono2: :nonono2:

[Black and Gold Express]

Pray tell, why would WKU move to I-A?

Yeah, why would WKU make a move to gain more exposure and interest for their school and their other athletic programs? Especially a school with a built-in tie to a mid-major I-A conference already.

I mean, what could possibly be better than playing in a division where all but 5 schools draw less than 20,000, where barely 1/4 of the schools play in front of crowds of 10,000 or more, and with rare national television coverage, and only rare cases of anything more than fledgling regional coverage?

I mean sheesh, who would dare to have goals to do better than that? They should ignore options for advancement! Yes, that's it! :rolleyes:

[ButlerGSU]

Yeah, why would WKU make a move to gain more exposure and interest for their school and their other athletic programs? Especially a school with a built-in tie to a mid-major I-A conference already.

I mean, what could possibly be better than playing in a division where all but 5 schools draw less than 20,000, where barely 1/4 of the schools play in front of crowds of 10,000 or more, and with rare national television coverage, and only rare cases of anything more than fledgling regional coverage?

I mean sheesh, who would dare to have goals to do better than that? They should ignore options for advancement! Yes, that's it! :rolleyes:

Why not black and gold?

It works for our Athletic Director, Sam Baker. We will always be the Big Brother of the SoCon.

[grizbeer]

Pray tell, why would WKU move to I-A?

Check out attendance here:

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/mainpage.jsp
Off topic, but kind of weird - look at the url Ralph listed. Then if you click the I-AA link you get this URL http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/Internet/attendance/iaa_attendance.html
Then click on average attendance and you get this link:
http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/Internet/attendance/IAA_AVGATTENDANCE.pdf
which brings up a page that says this

Division IAA

pure blasphemy to use d1, iaa, and IAA. What they ran out of Roman numerals, capitals, and dashes at the NCAA?

J/K :)

[Black and Gold Express]

Why not black and gold?

It works for our Athletic Director, Sam Baker. We will always be the Big Brother of the SoCon.

And what is right for one person needs to automatically be right for everyone else?

This is the attitude, thrown around the most here by Ralph, that I find troublesome. If I-AA were the be-all, end-all place for all schools to reside, that's one thing. But it's not. It's good for some schools. Others may decide they want or need more than what I-AA offers. You get nowhere by standing still, other than to watch others pass you by. That is definitely a truth. But if you decide you are happy where you are, then that's great.

Why can't there be some acceptance for that, instead of ridicule for any school that aspires to take the jump to the next level?

And the reverse is true by the way. Fans of schools that decide to take the next step up shouldn't bash the division they are leaving either. If ASU ever leaves I-AA, you won't find me bashing the division as a whole. I understand how it can be a really good fit for some places, and I respect that.

[njhoya]

Ralph,
your grandmother sounds exactly like mine was and mine was from Lithuania as well.

[Black and Gold Express]

and a chance to lose millions and expect the students and alum to pick up the tab? yeah right...

Because they are in actuality making money hand over fist in I-AA? Or are those red numbers just lies and fairy tales too?

[WUTNDITWAA]

And what is right for one person needs to automatically be right for everyone else?

This is the attitude, thrown around the most here by Ralph, that I find troublesome. If I-AA were the be-all, end-all place for all schools to reside, that's one thing. But it's not. It's good for some schools. Others may decide they want or need more than what I-AA offers. You get nowhere by standing still, other than to watch others pass you by. That is definitely a truth. But if you decide you are happy where you are, then that's great.

Why can't there be some acceptance for that, instead of ridicule for any school that aspires to take the jump to the next level?

And the reverse is true by the way. Fans of schools that decide to take the next step up shouldn't bash the division they are leaving either. If ASU ever leaves I-AA, you won't find me bashing the division as a whole. I understand how it can be a really good fit for some places, and I respect that.

That's one thing that has always been a turn off for me on this board. Every other post in the summer talks about "What I-A schools really should be I-AA" and the such. In the fall, it's one of every three posts. Funny, but there aren't many posts about "What D-II schools shoule really be I-AA".

Personally, I believe ASU can and will eventually make the move, but if/when that happens, you won't find me bashing I-AA either. I-AA works for many of the schools that are I-AA. Let them be happy too.

[Ivytalk]

Why not black and gold?

It works for our Athletic Director, Sam Baker. We will always be the Big Brother of the SoCon.

The ex-Philadelphia Eagle kicker??

[putter]

WKU can believe that it will be better and who knows, maybe it will but my cousin is a coach at Utah State and he has said many times that they have a tough time winning and it is all due to money and they have been a I-A team in football for a while. You will NEVER compete with the SEC, ACC, Big East, etc because they have too many sources for money that the other conferences don't have. It becomes just like basketball, you are happy to make it to the dance (you will NEVER win it), it is just less expensive than football.

[bandl]

It's hard for me to believe, in fact impossible, that any statistics or arguments or dollar figures that anyone throws out there can fit the mold of every school in all of I-AA. What is good for one school may not be good for another school. THAT'S IT. It's that simple.

[DB_Atlantic10]

Here at WKU the goal is the average to 15k if we want to move to I-A. Last year the average was a pathetic 9k but this year were around 13k.

So what school has the highest average in I-AA?

That would be UDel, they've averaged over 20K the past 6 or so years....

[bandl]

That would be UDel, they've averaged over 20K the past 6 or so years....

Is that average even higher than Montana?? They are averaging more than UD this year.
I don't know where to look on the web for averages in the past. :o

[DB_Atlantic10]

Is that average even higher than Montana?? They are averaging more than UD this year.
I don't know where to look on the web for averages in the past. :o

There was a new article yesterday stating that UDel has the higest average fan support in I-AA, their stadium holds 23 or 24K.... I'll see if I can find the article and link the thread....Trudging on to Richmond (http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051012/SPORTS07/510120349/1002)

[CrunchGriz]

There was a new article yesterday stating that UDel has the higest average fan support in I-AA, their stadium holds 23 or 24K.... I'll see if I can find the article and link the thread....

Since Montana expanded and put the wings on the north endzone of Washington-Grizzly Stadium three years ago, Montana has outdrawn Delaware every year--it's close, but Montana is slightly ahead every year (Montana's stadium capacity is slightly higher, and both teams draw near or over capacity every game).

[Saint3333]

Has any school ever dropped back down to 1AA...

[Cap'n Cat]

Ralph,
your grandmother sounds exactly like mine was and mine was from Lithuania as well.

http://www.krponline.com/art/iknow.jpg

Lithuanian grandmother here, too.

A. Miciekas!

:) :) :) :)

[wkukid]

From NCAA.org, through October 16.

Rank-----School----------Avg Att----# Home Games
1----------TN State----------25,342 ----------1
2----------Montana----------23,506----------4
3----------Appy State-------22,377----------2
4----------Delaware---------22,231----------4
5----------Southern U.------20,737----------3
11----------WKU-------------13,642----------3

These numbers don't tell you what concerts or other events happened to build the attendance numbers, but I guess it really doesn't matter.

The bottom eight 1-A schools:

110 San Jose St.---14,685-------2
111 Temple---------13,104-------4
112 Akron----------12,853-------2
113 Utah St.--------12,475-------2
114 Rice ------------10,893-------1
115 Buffalo----------10,778-------3
116 Kent St.---------10,115-------2
117 Eastern Mich.-----5,961-------2

[FlyYtown]

YSU is averaging 14,529 in 4 games. The last crowd was real bad at around 12,000; not a Youngstown crowd. The game prior was a big 17,000 crowd which got the Penguins a win.

Still #1 in the Gateway and it should rise this week. Hall of Fame and Homecoming at the Game...

GO GUINS

[MR. CHICKEN]

Since Montana expanded and put the wings on the north endzone of Washington-Grizzly Stadium three years ago, Montana has outdrawn Delaware every year--it's close, but Montana is slightly ahead every year (Montana's stadium capacity is slightly higher, and both teams draw near or over capacity every game).

GRIZZWALD...AS MONTANA HAS EXPANDED...DELAWARE STADIUM...HAS ACTUALLY LOWERED......SEATIN' CAPACITY..(STADIUM WAS ALTERED TA ACCOMMADATE...HANDICAPPED...PYHSICALLY CHALLENGED..ETC).....PRIOR TA DIS RENOVATION...WE COULD PULL IN 23K+.....:p....BRAWK!

[Killtoppers90]

The bottom eight 1-A schools:

110 San Jose St.---14,685-------2
111 Temple---------13,104-------4
112 Akron----------12,853-------2
113 Utah St.--------12,475-------2
114 Rice ------------10,893-------1
115 Buffalo----------10,778-------3
116 Kent St.---------10,115-------2
117 Eastern Mich.-----5,961-------2

Five of those D-1 schools are MAC schools and not SunBelt. That surprises me. With THOSE numbers we are better off in the Gateway - not that I mind that at all! I love being here!

[sceagle]

Rice only averaging a little over 10,000. Doesn't their stadium hold 70,000? I guess visitors don't have to worry about crowd noise being much of a factor.

[putter]

GRIZZWALD...AS MONTANA HAS EXPANDED...DELAWARE STADIUM...HAS ACTUALLY LOWERED......SEATIN' CAPACITY..(STADIUM WAS ALTERED TA ACCOMMADATE...HANDICAPPED...PYHSICALLY CHALLENGED..ETC).....PRIOR TA DIS RENOVATION...WE COULD PULL IN 23K+.....:p....BRAWK!

I thought it was altered fo the mentally handicapped and the capacity is somewhere in the range of 100,000!! :D xlolx

[WUTNDITWAA]

They are losing far less in I-AA, B&G... you don't want to go there. I-A stars in your eyes are blinding you.

That's a fair point, but I was more getting at why every other post is the same thing. Even the graphic of the guy beating the dead horse is...well...

[WUTNDITWAA]

Maybe because I-A and I-AA are in the same division and D-II is not?

Okay, since I don't believe in deleting posts, for the record let's try this again with what I wrote above.

That's a fair point, but I was more getting at why every other post is the same thing. Even the graphic of the guy beating the dead horse is...well...

[skinny_uncle]

Yeah, why would WKU make a move to gain more exposure and interest for their school and their other athletic programs? Especially a school with a built-in tie to a mid-major I-A conference already.

I mean, what could possibly be better than playing in a division where all but 5 schools draw less than 20,000, where barely 1/4 of the schools play in front of crowds of 10,000 or more, and with rare national television coverage, and only rare cases of anything more than fledgling regional coverage?

I mean sheesh, who would dare to have goals to do better than that? They should ignore options for advancement! Yes, that's it! :rolleyes:
The Gateway has six schools drawing over 10K per game. I can't imagine any of them leaving for the Sunbelt.

[MR. CHICKEN]

I thought it was altered fo the mentally handicapped and the capacity is somewhere in the range of 100,000!! :D xlolx

GRIZZWALD...YA'LL DUH BEST IN DUH WEST...........HENS..ARE DUH BEAST IN DUH EAST!.....TALKIN' ATTENDANCE......WILLIS!......;)......AWK!

[twentythreeOh4]

There was a new article yesterday stating that UDel has the higest average fan support in I-AA, their stadium holds 23 or 24K.... I'll see if I can find the article and link the thread....Trudging on to Richmond (http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051012/SPORTS07/510120349/1002)
According to the article:
Delaware has sold out the last 10 regular-season games at Delaware Stadium, which seats 22,000-plus and has more than 11,000 season-ticket holders.

Montana has about 17,000 season-ticket holders and averages over 23K per game.


Montana's home attendance 2005
-----------------------------------------------
Sep 03 FORT LEWIS.............. 23,432
Sep 17 SOUTH DAKOTA STATE...... 23,086
Oct 01 WEBER STATE............. 23,773
Oct 15 EASTERN WASHINGTON...... 23,732

[MR. CHICKEN]

DELAWARE'S HIGHEST ONE GAME ATTENDANCE.......23,619...vs...TEMPLE....1973..... .UH DAY DAT WILL LIVE IN INFAMY!..........:rotateh:.............BRAWK!

[Black and Gold Express]

They are losing far less in I-AA, B&G... you don't want to go there. I-A stars in your eyes are blinding you.

When you point out a set of clear, concise, all-encompassing, rational reasons why I-AA is better than I-A for every school in I-AA, it will be the first time you have done so.

The facts are this, if I-AA was so much better, why aren't teams clamoring to drop down to I-AA? I mean, to listen to you this division is the perfect place to be in. Seems like more teams would want to be in Utopia, wouldn't they?

So what, 117 Division I-A schools are all blind to reality? I find that hard to believe.

Sure we can agree that some I-A teams are struggling and are so uncompetitve annually that it doesn't make much sense for them to stay. But they continue to stay in I-A. WHy is that I wonder? But that is a also a vast minority of teams, and It is definitely not fair to assume any current I-AA program will suffer the same fate. Just as it is unfair to assume they would find success. There are plenty of examples of schools that have made the proper moves and are successful I-A programs.

Would I-A be better with a playoff system? Of course they would. But being I-A is about much more than just postseason. It's about marketing. It's about recruiting. It's about name recognition. For many it's also about additional funds that I-A gives them access to (both in donations and possible earnings). Yes there are tradeoffs for it, but it's not a bad thing for everyone.

Let's talk competitveness on the field. Why is it that even the mid-major I-A teams (who you swear up and down should drop down to I-AA as whole conferences) beat their I-AA foes on the field more often than not? I mean, to hear you prattle on, the I-A teams in question should be losing to their I-AA counterparts, since you claim they are similar in nature. So why is that? Could it be that even the mid-major I-A's get more overall talent than I-AA schools? What could be enticing those kids to play in such a bad place, when so many "better" options are available?

I am not the one "blinded by the stars" Ralph. I simply understand the truth - there is no one right place for everyone. The needs of each school are different, and that is why there are different options and places for programs to reside in. I respect the ideas of why I-AA is in existence, although I disagree with the NCAA's demand that all football programs must be at least I-AA in order to maintain D-I status in basketball. I also see that, in its current form, I-AA offers decidedly less for its largest institutions, especially ones with the wherewithall and desire to grow bigger than they currently are. I-AA as it currently is has a definite glass ceiling, and for some schools it is too low for them. I-AA, as it was originally proposed to be (including many unkept promises of national marketing and coverage) would have have at least allieviated some of these concerns. It didn't, so you cannot fault schools for looking to better themselves elsewhere.

You, on the other hand, are so biased against Division I-A that you go to great lengths to put it down at every turn. I-AA has taken a definite downturn in the arena of public faces since you arrived as one of its primary spokespeople. Otto Fad, who definitely rankled a lot of people with some of his strong views as much as you can, at least managed/manages to make his statements with an air of professionalism and respect. Matt Dougherty comes off very professional in his views, as does other national commentators like David Coulson. Something you should take a lesson from and be more proficient at, for the sake of the division you obviously love so much.

[89Hen]

So what, 117 Division I-A schools are all blind to reality? I find that hard to believe.
Hyperbole B&G. 65 teams are in BCS conferences and you've got 3 independents who are all doing fine (ND, Navy, Army). So immediately you're down to only 49 who might be kidding themselves. Within that group you've got a lot of teams in the CUSA and MWC who are doing great (BYU, ColoSt, Utah, TCU, SoMiss, Marshall....) and even a couple of MAC teams that do well for themselves. However, there are teams that are blind to reality. Most of them live in the Sun Belt, WAC and MAC (LA-Laf and Monroe, Buffalo, SJSU, EMU...). These teams would be better served to be in I-AA IMO, but I think it's a hard pill to swallow. A school like Buffalo who spent a lot of money to become I-A is not willing to throw in the towel just yet.

[Black and Gold Express]

However, there are teams that are blind to reality. Most of them live in the Sun Belt, WAC and MAC (LA-Laf and Monroe, Buffalo, SJSU, EMU...). These teams would be better served to be in I-AA IMO, but I think it's a hard pill to swallow. A school like Buffalo who spent a lot of money to become I-A is not willing to throw in the towel just yet.

If that were the case, again I ask why do these teams more often than not come away with wins against I-AA teams?

Yes, the upsets in I-A/I-AA games come mainly from this group. But each year there are dozens of inter-divisional games, and I-AA fans end up hanging their hat on a handful of wins at most.

It seems to me that, if there really were 20-40 I-A teams that were not I-A caliber talent, they'd be losing a lot more of the games to I-AA teams.

I think it's legitimately more like 10-15 teams at most you could make a solid case for it just not working, and needing to move down. But there is another side to it that I'm not sure you are fully considering of respecting. "I-AA" comes with quite a stigma attached to it. And that stigma will sit sourly on boosters and recruits alike. The facts on the field show that, even though they might be struggling in I-A, they are still putting on the field a better team than I-AA programs do. That is the bitter pill we in I-AA need to swallow too.

I-AA needs to better market itself, and successfully win the fight for public respect, before you will see teams make voluntary moves downward. Until it can shed it's "small time" label (and more wins against I-A teams will be the one thing that most does that), what exactly is the benefits for a team going I-AA?

You are judged by the company you keep. In the arena of public perception schools like Buffalo can say they run in the same circles as Ohio State and Texas. We can't. Like it or not, that does have a real-world impact. We can successfully argue that it's a broad generalization to paint, and has tons of flaws in it, but they are both in the same division - I-A. The highest division of collegiate football.

Newcomers to the division (like Buffalo) you have to be fair to and give them time to grow. While initial results have not been too promising, is it any different than when I-AA fans defend new I-AA programs that are trying to make strides to get better?

Perhaps the situation will correct itself. The best thing that could happen is the BCS teams going off on their own. Until that happens though, the mid-majors can successfully tout themselves to boosters, donors, advertisers, and recruits as being in the highest division of football. And that does matter.

[Black and Gold Express]

Sorry Mr. Sour, head of the most sour I-AA board in existence (yes, App State is I-AA no matter how much it pains you folks), there are 119 I-A participating schools. If you haven't got the picture yet that I have laid out in the highest detail ever, the best reason to be in I-AA for all schools is YOU'LL LOSE LESS MONEY! I know it also pains you that I am so out in the open about it, much more than any of the people you mentioned. I say it it to school presidents, chancellors, ADs, SIDs, student-athletes, media, alums, on websites, on TV, on radio, on a streaming audio show, to the NCAA and anyone else...

I-AA ALL THE WAY!

Gee, I wonder why I-A teams beat I-AA teams... I can't figure it out... ...

Maybe it's because THEY SHOULD WITH A WHOLE OTHER TEAM OF FULL SCHOLARSHIP STUDENT-ATHLETES!!! :eek:

:rolleyes: You can lead a blind horse to water but you can't force it to drink!

Thank you for perfectly making my point on your (lack of) professionalism, and your myopic view of the world. My case is closed.

[Black and Gold Express]

Oh that hurts so much. Your case might not be the only thing closed... :eek:

Woo. I'm so scared you might ban me from a site. How ever would I live otherwise?

Son? Considering I'm older than you, you may want to rethink that one.

And really, stooping to threatening someone who disagrees with you and calls you out on it? You impress me less and less every day.

[Black and Gold Express]

Like you banned me from your board for being pro-I-AA? Not a chance son. Keep typing but please put some thought into what you type... maybe read a little around here too instead of carrying out your vendetta against me and I-AA.

BTW, App State is still I-AA. :nod:

Ah, the misnomer and lie you try to cling so much to. Time to debunk it yet again.

You were banned on the board *temporarily* for inciting fights and personal attacks against multiple board members, not because of being pro-I-AA. Considering we have plenty of pro-I-AA people on the MMB, seems odd that would be the reason you got the boot, don't you think?

Oh, and in case you were wondering, your username has been unlocked for a long while now.

You know what's funny is, people here know the truth, and the more you tell your lies about that issue, the worse you end up looking.

Wanna try that one again?

[Black and Gold Express]

Oh, you're still here. In case you missed it I posted the entire thing that you banned me for (and you denied banning me). It's all there for you to read, remember my suggestion? You can stop now if you want.

Yes we went through all that, and in case you missed it I also clearly pointed out the fallacies in your argument. You go over to MMB, you raise the ire of ASU people knowing that's what would happen (because you are not a stupid man), and you can't handle the response. After warnings to stop it, you don't, so you get the ban for a bit to cool off.

Spin it however you like, it doesn't change the truth of the matter.

And yep, I just checked your username on our board, you're still un-banned.

[DB_Atlantic10]

This thread is getting out of hand and ugly.....as you tell us, carry it to the smack board.... :deadhorse

[Black and Gold Express]

Sorry for going off topic DBA, I hope I didn't personally attack or smack B&G (the only person who's ever banned me from any messageboard). I'll refrain from confronting him and ignore him. People have told me about him and I still converse with him. It took me a long time with RU4GSU and others too, I need to learn to ignore better I guess. :nod:

Back on topic, App State has been garnering some big crowds this year!

As much as I'd like to ignore this, I have been told personally by at least two other prominent I-AA board owners that the above statement in bold is 100% false. Take that for whatever you want to, they'd have no reason to lie to me. And that is all I am going to say about it on the public forum.

As for our attendance, it's a good start to what we hope is a new era in athletics. Doing it for one year with 4 games is one thing. Now we have to do it again and again.

The good thing is, I think we are putting the pieces in place to make that happen.

[LacesOut]

I think I-AA teams are something like 2-29 against I-A teams this season. And that's how it should be.

That's all I have for this thread. lol

[putter]

I'll say this again. If you are going to move up you had better get into a good conference that will get you some good TV and bowl money so you can raise your school up to a higher level. Utah State is now in the WAC which will help with recruiting and exposure but before that they were in the Sun Belt and it was like being exiled and the alumni, fans, etc got bored not winning and playing unknown, although I-A teams. Whether it is I-A or I-AA people want you to win in the end and the thrill of playing the "big boys" gets old after a while when you continually go 2-8 or 3-7 because you will never compete with the BCS conferences.

[WUTNDITWAA]

Yeah, I keep thinking what I wrote, oh a board and a half ago.