Missouri State says NO to sunbelt

[da_bears]

Missouri State was sent an invatation to join the sunbelt and go 1-A next year. They said no citing attendence. I think the main reason was becuase that subelt basketball is horrible compared to the Missouri Valley.

If MS jumps to 1-A then they will go CUSA or Big 12 because the girls basketball has two final 4's , baseball has a college world series, and Mens basketball has a sweet 16 apperence all in the last decade. The football is lacking but all the other sports could easily compete for CUSA championships and i think that the Big 12 is a real possiblity since they possibly could have joined the big 12 in the 90's if they would have gone 1-A.

[kats89]

Missouri State was sent an invatation to join the sunbelt and go 1-A next year. They said no citing attendence. I think the main reason was becuase that subelt basketball is horrible compared to the Missouri Valley.

If MS jumps to 1-A then they will go CUSA or Big 12 because the girls basketball has two final 4's , baseball has a college world series, and Mens basketball has a sweet 16 apperence all in the last decade. The football is lacking but all the other sports could easily compete for CUSA championships and i think that the Big 12 is a real possiblity since they possibly could have joined the big 12 in the 90's if they would have gone 1-A.


Good move to turn down The Sunbelt. That conference sucks and is the doormat of DivI-A. If they turned it down to cause of attendance then why do you think they would be able to join CUSA and BigXII?

[galojay]

First I heard of this. ArkStFan, you around?

[da_bears]

Good move to turn down The Sunbelt. That conference sucks and is the doormat of DivI-A. If they turned it down to cause of attendance then why do you think they would be able to join CUSA and BigXII?

I dont think attendance had anything to do with it, its just what the guy told the sunbelt so he didn't hurt thier feelings. They average like 10K-12K a game in FB which isn't that great considering they have excelent attendance for sports with winning traditions.

The baseball team was top 10 nationally in 2004 for attendance(after 2003 college world series apperence), it dropped off in 2005 but was still in the top 25
The Ladys basketball team(2005 WNIT champions) and volleyball team are also top 10 nationally for attendence. So the reason for jumping to a big time confrence would be for all the other sports and football would just be tagging along.

[Dallas Demon]

Missouri State was sent an invatation to join the sunbelt and go 1-A next year. They said no citing attendence. I think the main reason was becuase that subelt basketball is horrible compared to the Missouri Valley.

If MS jumps to 1-A then they will go CUSA or Big 12 because the girls basketball has two final 4's , baseball has a college world series, and Mens basketball has a sweet 16 apperence all in the last decade. The football is lacking but all the other sports could easily compete for CUSA championships and i think that the Big 12 is a real possiblity since they possibly could have joined the big 12 in the 90's if they would have gone 1-A.

Sorry, but just because they changed their name to Missouri State from Southwest Missouri St. doesn't automatically mean they are now big-time. Missouri State has a 0% chance of being in the Big 12. :confused:

[TxSt02]

Big 12? are you kidding me???

Also, the sunbelt would take anybody into their conference...They are horrible. I am sure they have approached us as well...

[TigerFan17]

10-12k is probably more than what many Sunbelt teams average...and WAC...and MAC. I doubt attendance was the whole reason.

I however have to agree, the chances of ya'll hoppin on into the Big XII are about as good as Towson joining the ACC...ain't gonna happen.

[galojay]

Actually, SBC isn't doing horribly on attendance:

Home attendance averages thru Saturday's games. Number of home games in parenthesis.

20,418 - Troy (2)
20,378 - North Texas (2)
16,609 - Middle Tennessee (2)
16,604 - UL-Lafayette (3)
15,823 - UL-Monroe (3)
15,514 - Arkansas State (3)
15,473 - Florida International (2)
12,655 - Florida Atlantic (3)

[da_bears]

Well you guys are right, the big XII is a little of a stretch but CUSA is a real possiblity.

[wlj989s]

"The Guy" being Director of Athletics, Bill Rowe.

Check out the football forum at www.letsgobears.com We have been discussing this topic in depth for weeks now.

[galojay]

scanned your forum, didn't see a lot of discussion on this topic. Was able to correct one of your fans who didn't seem to know you are already DI in football.

[Green Cookie Monster]

They are horrible. I am sure they have approached us as well...

You sure know how to compliment yourself.

[kats89]

:rolleyes:
You sure know how to compliment yourself.


Yeah, they are good at that. :rolleyes:

[89Hen]

If MS jumps to 1-A then they will go CUSA or Big 12... i think that the Big 12 is a real possiblity since they possibly could have joined the big 12 in the 90's if they would have gone 1-A.
:confused: :cool: Uhhh, yeah.

[arkstfan]

Let's just say invite is a terribly inaccurate word to describe the situation.

I know that a university president in the Sun Belt inquired as to whether SMS was considering a move to I-A because he was willing to put the Bears before the conference for expansion consideration if they were interested in I-A.

The mere fact that Missouri State has no interest in I-A membership ended the discussion.

An invitation (formal or informal) only comes once 75% of the presidents and chancellors have indicated their support. The Sun Belt never explored whether there was 75% support because no team not declaring its intention for I-A is going to be considered.

The Sun Belt has been approached by a CAA member but that institution was turned down because they do not play football. They have been approached by two Southern Conferences members who were turned down. One because they have no plan to go I-A and likely will never have such a plan, the other because they as yet do not have institutional support for their draft I-A plan. Everyone likely knows that FAMU approached the Belt and an informal visit quickly eliminated them from consideration. Two Mid-Con teams have inquired but were rebuffed because they don't play football.

Now everyone here can get their jollies ragging on the Sun Belt but the fact is that the league knows what its intention is and what its goals are and it will likely go through more transition as the membership starts reflecting that vision. The schools know what they want to do and in most cases have some bad leadership decisions to overcome but they are pursuing the course that their current leadership wishes to pursue just as each I-AA school is pursuing its course.

[FURMANFAN]

Arkstfan. I've got to ask. Was it Georgia Southern or App St that didn't have institutional support? Also, was it separate inquiries or were the two acting in concert and when did this take place? Any info would be appreciated.

[arkstfan]

To my knowledge there is no interest in I-A at any level of the Georgia Southern athletic or academic leadership nor interest in the Sun Belt.

The other SoCon school was interested in having an in-state rival given the departure of another in-state school.

The school with a draft plan is a different one.

[FURMANFAN]

Thank you, that answers my question. Surprising about GSU though. IMO they could be competitive in all sports faster than anyone. I never considered UTC. I guess from what you wrote that they intended to remain in the SoCon as a football only member or drop the sport altogether. Interesting info.

[FlyYtown]

MSU has great Basketball and why risk prospects to join this? I know it may look good but when attendance is never really high I can't see them join.

Again I will go on and on about attendance. Even YSU IMHO is 4-5,000 short at even considering the I-A in the MAC.

[sceagle]

There is a lot of unrest at GSU right now. Many feel that our administration lacks the vision to lead us in the right direction. Although we have had some good things happen it does seem like we are moving slower than we should be. I agree with what the App State people are saying on this thread. It seems like in the future we should be 1-A. That will probably eventually be the right fit for us. If we continue to grow as a university at the rate we currently are than we will not really fit in the SoCon. The next step would be the 1-A level. However, our athletic department doesn't seem to want to grow with the rest of the university and that has upset a lot of alumni and boosters. Change is coming to Georgia Southern, one way or another.

[Baldy]

The Sun Belt has been approached by......two Southern Conferences members who were turned down. ...the other because they as yet do not have institutional support for their draft I-A plan.

Why would a team approach the Sunbelt if it doesn't yet have a plan or institutional support for I-A? What did they say? We don't want to go I-A, but we want to join your conference?
I'm not buying it.

[arkstfan]

The Sun Belt has one I-AA member and four I-AAA at the time there were 6 full members that were I-A and there were three associate members for football only that were I-A.

Obviously they believed there might be some interest in having six I-A and six that were not.

[Cap'n Cat]

Cap'n Cat can't believe this thread got past three posts, much less three pages. Absolutely ridiculous.....

[nmatsen]

MSU has great Basketball and why risk prospects to join this? I know it may look good but when attendance is never really high I can't see them join.

Again I will go on and on about attendance. Even YSU IMHO is 4-5,000 short at even considering the I-A in the MAC.

Is this by capacity or average attendance? Within 12 months for Northern Iowa I played a game at Ball State (MAC probably 9,000 in stands) and a year later played a game at YSU (GFC probably 17-18,000 fans) what do you mean your attendance doesn't come close?

[Cap'n Cat]

Is this by capacity or average attendance? Within 12 months for Northern Iowa I played a game at Ball State (MAC probably 9,000 in stands) and a year later played a game at YSU (GFC probably 17-18,000 fans) what do you mean your attendance doesn't come close?


Matsie,
Cap'n Cat, D1B, Little Cat and Even Littler Cat went to the Eastern Michigan/Northern Illinois game in '03 and there weren't 1100 people there in Ypsilanit, MI. The MAC is like the SWAC - whereas white corporate America throws bones to the Band Conference down south and televises their games out of white guilt, the MAC is limping along, barely breathing and benefitting from laziness of the NCAA who is too cowardly to pull the plug on their grand I-A delusions.

:D :D :D :D

[Baldy]

Matsie,
Cap'n Cat, D1B, Little Cat and Even Littler Cat went to the Eastern Michigan/Northern Illinois game in '03 and there weren't 1100 people there in Ypsilanit, MI.

You musta been jonesin for some football really really bad to go and watch that sheeat. :D

[Saint3333]

Original question, "was it GSU and ASU"

Answer, "The school with a draft plan is a different one."

Am I missing something, who could that be?

I've heard the SunBelt has casually discussed conference membership with ASU. Heck we would lead the conference in attendance at this point, however I don't think the SunBelt is the answer for ASU fans regarding 1-A. I still want a new conference with JMU, Delaware, GSU, ASU, and others and yes I'm :deadhorse .

[Indian]

Matsie,
Cap'n Cat, D1B, Little Cat and Even Littler Cat went to the Eastern Michigan/Northern Illinois game in '03 and there weren't 1100 people there in Ypsilanit, MI. The MAC is like the SWAC - whereas white corporate America throws bones to the Band Conference down south and televises their games out of white guilt, the MAC is limping along, barely breathing and benefitting from laziness of the NCAA who is too cowardly to pull the plug on their grand I-A delusions.

:D :D :D :D


The game in 2003 was in DeKalb with 16,000+ attending. NIU, with Michael Turner, won 10 games with wins over Alabama and Maryland, but didn't get to a bowl. NIU averaged 23,000 in 2003, according to their site. The game in 2002 was at EMU, a 49-21 win for NIU, with 5,000+ attending, poor but quite a bit more than 1,100. Links to the 2003 and 2002 games are below:

http://www3.niu.edu/athletics/football/agate03/EMU112303.htm

http://www.emich.edu/goeagles/football/2002/Stats/game-11.htm

[McTailGator]

Well you guys are right, the big XII is a little of a stretch but CUSA is a real possiblity.


It will take a 12 Million dollar a year budget to get into CUSA.

[da_bears]

It will take a 12 Million dollar a year budget to get into CUSA.

The Missouri State athletic budget is currently about 10 million, i think with added football scholorships and such of being I-A that they would be close to that 12 million.

Missouri State also has the largest budget in the missouri valley.

[REALBird]

The Missouri State athletic budget is currently about 10 million, i think with added football scholorships and such of being I-A that they would be close to that 12 million.

Missouri State also has the largest budget in the missouri valley.

No true....I found a link below concerning WKU and the interest they were garnering from the MAC. It states that the WKU athletic budget would have to increase about $2 million from it's current $10 million to support football.

WKU & MAC Article (http://www.messenger-inquirer.com/sports/college/8120625.htm)

Also, included is a link to former Illinois State AD Rick Greenspan's online resume at Indiana University where he took over about a year ago.

Greenspan Resume (http://newsinfo.iu.edu/news/page/normal/1628.html)

In his resume he touts having a budget of OVER 10 million at Illinois State, with reserves in excess of $5 million between the years 1993-1999. Mr. Greenspan has since had a tour of duty at West Point (Army) and is currently serving as AD at Indiana University.

Illinois State has the capital and resources to consider such a move if necessary, and our budget rivals if not compares with Missouri State despite not having a benefactor like John Q. Hammons to depend upon.

There has recently been the same talk about ISU going to the Conf. USA, the Big XII, etc,. and as much as I'd like to believe it will happen, unless someone leaves, we're all stuck where we are until the next round of conference realignment.

[TigerFan17]

Actually, SBC isn't doing horribly on attendance:

Home attendance averages thru Saturday's games. Number of home games in parenthesis.

20,418 - Troy (2)
20,378 - North Texas (2)
16,609 - Middle Tennessee (2)
16,604 - UL-Lafayette (3)
15,823 - UL-Monroe (3)
15,514 - Arkansas State (3)
15,473 - Florida International (2)
12,655 - Florida Atlantic (3)

Well, maybe those numbers just look good to us because we're I-AA. According to the NCAA website...


iv. I-A teams have to meet minimum attendance requirements (17,000 people in attendance per home game, OR 20,000 average of all football games in the last four years or, 30,000 permanent seats in their stadium and average 17,000 per home game or 20,000 average of all football games in the last four years OR, be in a member conference in which at least six conference members sponsor football or more than half of football schools meet attendance criterion.

Since all but 2 aren't meeting what is required to be Divsion I-A...I'd say that they are doing relatively horrible.

[galojay]

Well, maybe those numbers just look good to us because we're I-AA. According to the NCAA website...



Since all but 2 aren't meeting what is required to be Divsion I-A...I'd say that they are doing relatively horrible.

Those are OLD standards, new standards are:


The legislation allows institutions to demonstrate over a rolling two-year period either an average minimum actual attendance of 15,000 for all home football games, or at least one season in which the institution averages a minimum of 15,000 in paid attendance for home games.

http://www2.ncaa.org/media_and_events/association_news/ncaa_news_online/2005/05_09_05/division_i/4210n18.html

[TigerFan17]

Strange, I got the info directly from the NCAA website...hmmmm. Oh well.

Either way you look at it, they are riding the bare minimum.

[Kill'em]

There is a big push on TSC Sports to see GSU move into the Sunbelt. Personally, I think the Sunbelt is a joke. It would be a big mistake for us to join. Here's why:

1) Away games are just that. From Miami to Arkansas. SoCon away games are much closer.
2) The home attendance figures in the Sunbelt aren't as high as ours, except for two.
3) I strongly feel the SoCon is a more competitive confernce. We would whip most of the Sunbelt teams.
4) For what would we be playing? We won't be in consideration for the BcS championship because the COMPUTERS don't feel the Sunbelt is a power conference, which it isn't! I don't think the Sunbelt winner even gets a bowl bid.
5) Over time our attendance would drop. Fans will become bored with our competition and the fact that our season end after the last regular season game.
6) Our football team would fall into mediocrity because we would not attract the quality of player we did at the I-AA level. This would be due to reasons 1-5.

We need to stay in the SoCon!

[Killtoppers90]

Kill`em

That is the best reasons for not going to the Belt I have ever heard. Well played! :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray:

[Kill'em]

Thank you. I wish I would have stated this point on TSC. When I try to make the point, I am usually pretty PO'ed so I don't state my case as clearly. Anyway, those who are hellbent to go to the Sunbelt won't listen anyway. :confused:

Glad you like it!

[TigerFan17]

Who in their right mind is hell-bent on being in the SunBelt? I bet half the teams in the SunBelt aren't even hell-bent on being in the SunBelt.

[SpiritCymbal]

Actually....no one on TSC is hell-bent on SunBelt. But most view it as the only viable option were GSU to move to I-A. SBC would only being a stepping stone not a destination.

[arkstfan]

The figures on the NCAA website are not official (yes I know that sounds terribly weird).

Official attendance is not submitted until February and is based on the number of tickets sold at the minimum price or above and the turnstile or other audited count of actual student attendance. Tickets purchased by booster clubs don't count.

The numbers on the NCAA website may be obtained by:
Counting all tickets sold
Turnstile or scanned ticket count
The AD looking up from his popcorn and official team sponsor soft drink and spouting out the first number that comes into his head

A great example of how unreliable the numbers are is Troy. They elected to move (under the old rules) by averaging 17,000 over four years (not four years of 17,000 but total number of home games over that period divided by the total attendance for that period). Three years in based on the NCAA web site numbers there was no way they could make attendance and as the fourth year rolled along it appeared they were sunk. Turns out the sold count over those four years had been higher than had been announced in the box scores.

[TigerFan17]

Speaking of attendance...man...is anyone watching this UAB/Southern Miss game on ESPN right now!? There can't be more than 8000 people there.

[UAalum72]

The end zones are desolate, but some sections don't look too bad, they may have 20. Legion Field holds 71,000, so even if they had 30K it would look empty. The old Cleveland-Indians-at-Muni syndrome - so many seats you can't sell season's tickets and even 40K feels deserted.

[chattanoogamocs]

I believe the upper deck at Legion Field is condemned (literally)...how exciting would that be for your "home stadium"?

[Cocky]

I believe the upper deck at Legion Field is condemned (literally)...how exciting would that be for your "home stadium"?

It was removed before the start of this season.

[chattanoogamocs]

wow, was it really...how much did that drop the capacity....did they move the pressboxes too? I watched the game for a while, but could not get a good look at the stands.

[Cocky]

wow, was it really...how much did that drop the capacity....did they move the pressboxes too? I watched the game for a while, but could not get a good look at the stands.

The capacity is around 70,000 without the upperdeck.

UAB's attendance was a little over 31,000 for the Southern Miss game. That is a good crowd for any team in Alabama other than UAT and Auburn. UAB's attendance is measured by the park and rec department. P&R only counts ticket stubs so the attendance is fannies in seats. UAB's yearly attendance (not sold tickets) is probably more than double Troy's true attendance (they report tickets sold as attendance).

[SpiritCymbal]

There's no way that Legion field's capacity is 70K without the upper deck. No freakin way. It's a big stadium, but it's not that big.

31K isn't too bad for a game on Friday night for a non-Bama/Auburn game in Alabama.

[Cocky]

There's no way that Legion field's capacity is 70K without the upper deck. No freakin way. It's a big stadium, but it's not that big.

31K isn't too bad for a game on Friday night for a non-Bama/Auburn game in Alabama.

The upper deck only held about 9,000 which would put capacity at 72,000 without the upper deck.

[TigerFan17]

It looked empty as hell though, even the areas around the 50 had people, but it looked sparse, plenty of space between groups.

The stadium is a bit too big I think. :p