What Does the Future Hold for the CAA?

[UNH 1999]

I ran across this article, Will 14-Team League Be Too Big?: Despite Scheduling Issues, Yeager Favors CAA's National Role (http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%20News/1758247/), concerning the future of the CAA once Georgia State and Old Dominion join the league in 2012.

What do ya'll think will happen to the CAA once it is a 14 league team? Will the north east schools break off and reform another incarnation of the A-10/Yankee League? Will they remain intact despite having an unruly way to determine a champion? Or is a championship game a possibility between the North and South champs? I know a lot can happen in four years but I thought I toss this out there for discussion.

[ericsaid]

I think its the worst not smart for anyone to be in the CAA below Virginia. James Madsion is far enough south for the rest of the conference.

Then for Georgia St. to be put in the north decision it the worst idea in an energy crisis that will still be going on until we find an alternative fuel to replace gasoline. Having an upstart football team having to fly to all of its away games that are inconference will put a lot of stress on the players and coaches I would think.

[GannonFan]

There'll be no championship game - seriously, there's no money in having something like that unless there's a major TV contract to go along with it and a few weeks to plan for it. Not going to happen with no TV contract and one week to make plans to attend.

Second, who cares about the difficulty (sometimes) of crowning a champion? The CAA/A10/Yankee has always gotten at least 2 teams in ever since the conference added UD and Richmond back in '86 and became the conference it is today (i.e. not an exclusively New England-based conference). The CAA typically gets 3 teams in, on average, and as last year shows that can be a lot more. Whoever gets the "honor" of having the autobid only seems to matter to people outside of the CAA - the rest of us in the CAA are just concerned with making the playoffs, which is what it's all about anyway.

The CAA is not destined to breakup - it can exist as a 14 team league for pretty much forever if it wanted to. Of course it will break up, but that's the fate of pretty much every conference out there anyway - no conference stays static forever, every conference loses some schools and gains some schools. The CAA will be no different. Having 14 teams will just be something people can point to when the inevitable conference shake-up happens, but things would've been shaked-up if the number was less than 14 too.

[NFLCB2]

I heard someone talking once about the America East Conf. putting together a football Conf.Including Vermont starting up a football program again.So that would put R.I.,Mass, N.H.,and the other northern teams, and maybe Albany?

I also heard that and I personally think its a great idea although the biggest setback is OOC scheduling vs. Delaware and JMU those are great games that shouldn't go away. Sticky situation Id hate to have to be the guy that has to decide all this.

[zilla]

I think its the worst not smart for anyone to be in the CAA below Virginia. James Madsion is far enough south for the rest of the conference.

Then for Georgia St. to be put in the north decision it the worst idea in an energy crisis that will still be going on until we find an alternative fuel to replace gasoline. Having an upstart football team having to fly to all of its away games that are inconference will put a lot of stress on the players and coaches I would think.

Very stressful!

Of course, I would suppose that's the travel trend of conferences like the Big Sky.

I know all that "travel by air" is feasible, but it'll definately be expensive.

[DTSpider]

Why not leave it at 14?

Just play all the schools in your division and go by "division record" and not conference record. Have 2 games from the opposite division if you want to have a conference champ, but at the end of the day it won't matter. Any team that goes 8-3 or better will have played a hard enough schedule to warrant serious playoff consideration. Until they have rules requiring you to be a conference champ to get a seed, it really doesn't matter.

[SoCon48]

What Does the Future Hold for the CAA?

Umm. Seven teams in the FCS play-offs.

[DFW HOYA]

Another scenario: the Atlantic 10 starts a football conference with its all-sport members: Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Richmond, Duquesne (at least 40 scholarships by 2012), and Fordham (with its 55-60 equivalencies). Throw in Villanova and maybe a Maine, and there's a league, while the CAA would still be at 9 teams:

Delaware
Hofstra
Georgia State
James Madison
New Hampshire
Northeastern
Towson
Old Dominion
William & Mary

[mizzoufan1]

Another scenario: the Atlantic 10 starts a football conference with its all-sport members: Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Richmond, Duquesne (at least 40 scholarships by 2012), and Fordham (with its 55-60 equivalencies). Throw in Villanova and maybe a Maine, and there's a league, while the CAA would still be at 9 teams:

Delaware
Hofstra
Georgia State
James Madison
New Hampshire
Northeastern
Towson
Old Dominion
William & Mary

Get Temple to drop down to FCS and then the A-10 Would have a football conference. But I think we all better wait. The next round of Conference shake ups will be coming by 2014 (if we are alive to get to that year) Starting with the expected Big East break-up.

The CAA with GA St. in it won't work due to the travel problems that they will have...

[R.A.]

Wow... am I in MEACFans?!?

This is the type of stuff we discuss constantly... adding teams, championship games, etc.

I feel the CAA should stick with 14 teams once Georgia St. and ODU join. I'm not sure if CAA schools are in favor of a Championship game, however if programs like Delaware and JMU were to play in a CAA Title game... there would be a lot of folks watching...

And if Temple finally dropped into the FCS and joined the CAA... well, that might not be all that major a deal, they'll probably only go .500 in the CAA xlolx

[ngineer]

I will be surprised if the 14 team make-up will last more than 3-5 years. There will be various issues whenever something gets 'too big' and unwieldy. Most likely see pressure on the northern tier teams to move into some other relationship after awhile. Add the significant increase in travel costs with the skyrocketing fuel prices,and being in a more regionalized conference looks more reasonable.

[Tealblood]

I guess it maid sense to put georgia st. in the north for travel purposes because they have one of the countries biggest airports closeby

[rufus]

I don't see the CAA staying at 14 teams for too long. I think the conference will split at some point, but the split will probably be more big vs. small than south vs. north. It's pretty clear that JMU, ODU, UMass, and Georgia State all have FBS ambitions. Delaware certainly has the means to move to FBS as well, and I could see it happening if it's with a group of other CAA schools. Throw in some affiliate members like App State, Georgia Southern, Charlotte, or YSU and I could see something happening.

I don't think FBS is a certainty for any of the CAA schools, but there is clearly a difference in the direction that football is moving at JMU/ODU/UMass vs. URI/Northeastern/Richmond.

[813Jag]

Just a tidbit for folks talking about a championship game, that equals no playoffs for the two participants. The Championship Game was the worse idea our conference has ever had and that's counting the idiotic nine game mandate. xnonono2x

Temple was successful (for them anyways) in the MAC, they fit better there than in the Big East. If they didn't drop down after the Big East boot then they won't be going anywhere now.

[saint0917]

Another scenario: the Atlantic 10 starts a football conference with its all-sport members: Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Richmond, Duquesne (at least 40 scholarships by 2012), and Fordham (with its 55-60 equivalencies). Throw in Villanova and maybe a Maine, and there's a league, while the CAA would still be at 9 teams:

Delaware
Hofstra
Georgia State
James Madison
New Hampshire
Northeastern
Towson
Old Dominion
William & Mary

I agree with 99.8% with what you had to say, the only two things I would do different is I would sent Villanova to The Patriot League with the rest of the small Private Schools. And I would add Dayton the the A-10. 14 teams in the CAA is just way to many IMO.xtwocentsx

CAA

Delaware
Hofstra
Georgia State
James Madison
New Hampshire
Northeastern
Towson
Old Dominion
William & Mary

A-10 or whatever they call it.

Umass
Rhode Island
Maine
New Hampshire
Duquesne
Dayton
Richmond

[mcveyrl]

I say we have two tiered divisions based on the past four years results and then have a relegation/promotion system like English soccer. Bottom two teams in CAA1 got to CAA2, while the top two teams in CAA2 go to CAA1.

All the teams in CAA1 play each other and then two teams from CAA2, same for CAA2. Only CAA 1 gets the auto-bid and conference championship.

What? Too confusing?? :P

[gophoenix]

Georgia State will leave by the time football is rolling.

UNCW will leave at some point too.

[andy7171]

Georgia State will leave by the time football is rolling.

UNCW will leave at some point too.

Why would UNCW leave? Traveling would be worse in the A-10 and anything besides the ACC or Big East would be a step down for basketball?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Despite what some fans say on here about not having a "real champion", it's already a real issue (UMass and Richmond did not play each other in CAA play last year, and both could lay claim to a CAA "championship"). IMO, these pressures will hit a breaking point with ODU and GeStU: no, not because there's no championship game, but the fact that all the northern teams will be stiffed when Delaware fans don't travel to their home venues for over a 4 year span.

Short of cloning Delaware and putting them in CAA north, realistically there is no good solution. Putting Georgia State in the North isn't a real option unless you're the CEO of an airline or oil company.

Ultimately, the schools in the North will ask the following questions:
1. Why do we want to be in a league whose biggest focus seems to be south of the Mason/Dixon line?
2. If we were in our own league and guaranteed an autobid, wouldn't we probably get 2-3 teams in a year on our own merits - and get a true conference race, unlike what we have currently? (Any concerns about not getting an autobid are now unfounded based on the fact that an expanded playoffs is now a reality for 2010.)
3. Is it really worth staying with Delaware when the "payoff" is once every 5-6 years if we're lucky?
4. Almost all of us are affiliates. Why don't we simply unite under the banner of (New Yankee Conference, America East, Atlantic 10) and get better representation at the bargaining table?
5. Wouldn't it be nice to have our own TV deal, and not have to divide it up 14 ways?

I think the answer to these questions is: something other than a 14-team CAA would be good for the CAA North.

[WileECoyote06]

Why couldn't Delaware and Villanova be moved to the north and add ODU and GSU to the south?

This is interesting to me, because the MEAC faces similar issues dealing with us (NCCU) and whether we need a partner school. Despite our NC roots, I could conceivably see us being sent into the northern division for football. Especially if they add Savannah State. We'd have standing rivalry games with A & T and WSSU, and then play our northern brethren.

It would suck not being able to play FAMU and SCSU every year though.

[danefan]

We (Albany) have our Alumni football weekend this weekend. We usually get some interesting behind-the-scenes info on league affiliation, scholarships, etc...

Two (or three) years ago they had an America East Football Conference banner indicating what the teams would be in the proposal. Obviously that proposal didn't pass.

Hopefully we'll get some good info this year, although I think the main concern is going to be the stadium issues we are having right now.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Why couldn't Delaware and Villanova be moved to the north and add ODU and GSU to the south?

Money. JMU, W&M, Richmond, and Towson would rather lose their right arms than lose the connection (and yearly rivalry) with Delaware.

Villanova they could care less about, but they're willing to put up with them to have Delaware.

[Dukie95]

I guess it maid sense to put georgia st. in the north for travel purposes because they have one of the countries biggest airports closeby

Yes, that, and they're going to have to fly for all their games anyway, so it doesn't really matter how far their going. They'll burn a bit more fuel but the overall costs shouldn't be that different from flying to the southern schools.

[Jackman]

Why couldn't Delaware and Villanova be moved to the north and add ODU and GSU to the south?

Aside from the fact that everyone wants Delaware in their division, that would put 8 members in the north and 6 in the south. And apparently the South's two northern-most outposts, Nova and Delaware, don't want to split up, so sending one current South member to the North creates issues too. The next northern-most member is Towson.

Sticking the CAA North, which is mostly non-CAA members, with the cost of bringing up the CAA's pet project, Georgia State, would be certain to create hostility. If it goes down that way, that will be the beginning of the end. Then you have to wonder what happens to Northeastern if most of the northern schools leave. Hasn't even been a year since they discussed disbanding the football team, has it?

[DTSpider]

The CAA TV package split among 14 schools is better than what the northern schools would get on their own. The conference money maker is Delaware with the VA schools creating the other "solid" market.

As already mentioned, GSU is an airline trip for every team. Why make any other school give us a bus trip to Nova or UD for another airline trip?

[Jackman]

As far as I know, a 1/14th share of the CAA TV deal wouldn't cover the cost of a single flight to Georgia State. That deal is mostly about exposure, not revenue.

The only sensible move (besides splitting) is moving Villanova to the CAA North, and giving UDel-Nova the first four years in the inter-divisional game rotation. By the time that deal is up, it will be 2016 (GSU doesn't join until 2012), and who knows what the conference landscape on the east coast will look like by then. The Virginians and Delaware voted Georgia State into their conference, so growing that program should be their burden, not the North's. They're also gaining ODU, a program that will help the South's expense/revenue ledger by taking the place of a Northern opponent on their schedules. That will offset the cost of the Georgia State flights a little. Nobody in the South cares about Villanova except Delaware. They're not even a CAA member, so they'll fit in with the North.

I don't know what the Richmond coach is thinking by going public with proposing GState to the North. Way to have our backs, Richmond. We'll remember that if there's a full member/affiliate member split.

[DTSpider]

I don't know what the Richmond coach is thinking by going public with proposing GState to the North. Way to have our backs, Richmond. We'll remember that if there's a full member/affiliate member split.

Not the Richmond coach that published that. It came out of the pre-meeting agenda from the CAA Football conference.

Does UMass take buses to Nova? I'm not sure that moving Nova to the north would help any with travel costs.

[danefan]

Not the Richmond coach that published that. It came out of the pre-meeting agenda from the CAA Football conference.

Does UMass take buses to Nova? I'm not sure that moving Nova to the north would help any with travel costs.


I would imagine UMass busses to Nova. Its only 5 hours.

[89Hen]

IMO 12 is stupid for a I-AA conference. I guess that makes 14 uber-stupid in my book. With no need/desire for a championship game, it makes no sense. If I had my way the CAA would be an all-sports conference with no affiliates in football. It's not that I don't like the football affiliates, I just don't care for the 12+ team format.

As henfan (and I think Gannon) likes to point out, the CAA has no desire to kick anyone out. I guess I'm hoping they decide to leave on their own.

[R.A.]

Just a tidbit for folks talking about a championship game, that equals no playoffs for the two participants. The Championship Game was the worse idea our conference has ever had and that's counting the idiotic nine game mandate. xnonono2x



Jag, if your conference has 12 or more football participants, the NCAA grants your conference an extra game so that you can play a Conference Title Game if your conference decides that it wants a conference title game. And after the conference title game, your conference is still allowed to participate in the NCAA Post Season.

[danefan]

Jag, if your conference has 12 or more football participants, the NCAA grants your conference an extra game so that you can play a Conference Title Game if your conference decides that it wants a conference title game. And after the conference title game, your conference is still allowed to participate in the NCAA Post Season.


Yeah its allowed, but it doesn't work out schedule-wise. That is especially true after 2010 when the schedules will be 11 games with no bye-weeks until the first round of the playoffs.

[MplsBison]

One potential driver for a shake up could be if Delaware can build a new stadium large enough to warrent a Big East invite.


The BE will be splitting in a couple years and likely the football conference will be looking for new members.


Unless they can convince Nova to upgrade, they would like to get into the Phila. market and UDel provides that.


If they could build say a new 35k stadium and new practice facilities similar to what UConn has and upgrade the budget (esp. the recruiting budget) they could do the same damage in the BE that UConn is doing.



The only difference is that they don't have the bball program to fall back on.

[813Jag]

Jag, if your conference has 12 or more football participants, the NCAA grants your conference an extra game so that you can play a Conference Title Game if your conference decides that it wants a conference title game. And after the conference title game, your conference is still allowed to participate in the NCAA Post Season.
OK, I wasn't sure. xthumbsupx

Yeah its allowed, but it doesn't work out schedule-wise. That is especially true after 2010 when the schedules will be 11 games with no bye-weeks until the first round of the playoffs.
I agree, it'll be tough to pull off logistically.

[Jackman]

Does UMass take buses to Nova? I'm not sure that moving Nova to the north would help any with travel costs.

Hofstra, UMass, URI and Northeastern should all be in bus/train range of Nova. UNH would probably be pushing it. Maine is further away from UMass than Nova, not sure whether anyone but UNH and Northeastern bus to them. Georgia State traveling to Maine is about the same as Georgia State traveling to New Mexico. They may as well be in the WAC if they're in the CAA North. The "why aren't we in the SoCon" crowd will only get louder.

[mizzoufan1]

My thoughts are to be to wait...With the eventual Big East split coming in 2012 (after the moratorium is lifted) or 2014 (after the Football TV contracts are up) the CAA (as well as the A-10, AEast, and other conferences in the Northeast) will probably feel the FULL effect of conference shifting...

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Despite what some fans say on here about not having a "real champion", it's already a real issue (UMass and Richmond did not play each other in CAA play last year, and both could lay claim to a CAA "championship"). IMO, these pressures will hit a breaking point with ODU and GeStU: no, not because there's no championship game, but the fact that all the northern teams will be stiffed when Delaware fans don't travel to their home venues for over a 4 year span.

Short of cloning Delaware and putting them in CAA north, realistically there is no good solution. Putting Georgia State in the North isn't a real option unless you're the CEO of an airline or oil company.

Can you provide a link that substantiates your claim of it being an issue? The only "issues" I've heard raised have been from non-CAA folks.

FWIW, GaStU can get non-stop flights to every North school just like to the South schools. Well, maybe not Portland or Bangor, Maine without a charter after the airlines gut their flights.

Also, to partially answer other's questions, UNH flies to all the South schools on commercial, either SouthWest or Jet Blue, rather than charter. Never heard a complaint about the travel costs.


Ultimately, the schools in the North will ask the following questions:
1. Why do we want to be in a league whose biggest focus seems to be south of the Mason/Dixon line?
2. If we were in our own league and guaranteed an autobid, wouldn't we probably get 2-3 teams in a year on our own merits - and get a true conference race, unlike what we have currently? (Any concerns about not getting an autobid are now unfounded based on the fact that an expanded playoffs is now a reality for 2010.)
3. Is it really worth staying with Delaware when the "payoff" is once every 5-6 years if we're lucky?
4. Almost all of us are affiliates. Why don't we simply unite under the banner of (New Yankee Conference, America East, Atlantic 10) and get better representation at the bargaining table?
5. Wouldn't it be nice to have our own TV deal, and not have to divide it up 14 ways?

I think the answer to these questions is: something other than a 14-team CAA would be good for the CAA North.

1. Because they have provided better administration than anything we've seen in the past. Because they provide the best opportunity to maintain a quality product, relevant on the national scene. Because we like being affiliated with the southern schools.

2. Not with any of the proposals or likely scenarios that I've seen. There'd be an autobid but the in league schedule and the likely OOC schedules would hardly bring the resume needed to get at large bids. I'd rather have fewer bids from the CAA than more autobids from this new conference, because I knew my team coming from the CAA would have a better chance of going deep into the playoffs.

3. It's a lot more than staying with Delaware.

4. what exactly is at that bargaining table? And who exactly is providing this terrific representation. Please don't insult me by saying America East. Who are the 7-8 football schools that want to be in this all sports conference. Without that it would just be a bunch of affiliates again. I don't consider a league with only four all sports members to be very stable.

5. Not likely to get much of a TV deal so doubtful it would be better than 1/14th of the current deal. The New England Sports Network has a contract with the ACC because of the Chestnut Hill Beagles so this new conference would never get a great deal from them. Besides it would be chump change anyway.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

My thoughts are to be to wait...With the eventual Big East split coming in 2012 (after the moratorium is lifted) or 2014 (after the Football TV contracts are up) the CAA (as well as the A-10, AEast, and other conferences in the Northeast) will probably feel the FULL effect of conference shifting...

Exactly! Absolutely no sense making any radical changes until this stuff all plays out.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

UNH, your answers are perfectly legitimate - having said that, this would be my rebuttal to them.


1. Because they have provided better administration than anything we've seen in the past. Because they provide the best opportunity to maintain a quality product, relevant on the national scene. Because we like being affiliated with the southern schools.

The first and third I can see, but I don't see the second. If Maine, UNH, URI, UMass, Northeastern and Hofstra form a new conference, how is this functionally different than what you have now, especially if there are 2 or 3 OOC games with the CAA anyway? xconfusedx You're in effect competing against them now - after all, you yourself say there is no CAA "championship". What do you care?


2. Not with any of the proposals or likely scenarios that I've seen. There'd be an autobid but the in league schedule and the likely OOC schedules would hardly bring the resume needed to get at large bids. I'd rather have fewer bids from the CAA than more autobids from this new conference, because I knew my team coming from the CAA would have a better chance of going deep into the playoffs.

If the northern half forms their own league by doing a clean split, they would qualify for an autobid right away since they've competed together for five years. I fail to see why the "likely" OOC schedules would offer fewer bids as long as you get CAA teams on the schedule.


3. It's a lot more than staying with Delaware.

That's not how I see it.


4. what exactly is at that bargaining table? And who exactly is providing this terrific representation. Please don't insult me by saying America East. Who are the 7-8 football schools that want to be in this all sports conference. Without that it would just be a bunch of affiliates again. I don't consider a league with only four all sports members to be very stable.

It doesn't have to be AE that does the administration. It could be a new football-only Yankee conference - administered out of the CAA offices, just like the MVFC and PFL are administered out of the MVC. Functionally the NYFC would be aligned with the CAA.


5. Not likely to get much of a TV deal so doubtful it would be better than 1/14th of the current deal. The New England Sports Network has a contract with the ACC because of the Chestnut Hill Beagles so this new conference would never get a great deal from them. Besides it would be chump change anyway.

You're going to be happy if CN8 chooses, say the ODU/W&M game in 2009 over UMass/UNH? And the TV revenue, while nothing like the big boys, is not insignificant either.

[89Hen]

One potential driver for a shake up could be if Delaware can build a new stadium large enough to warrent a Big East invite.
NOPE

Unless they can convince Nova to upgrade
NOPE

[mcveyrl]

Unless they can convince Nova to upgrade,


NOPE

Perhaps you've never seen Villanova's stadium MplsB. An upgrade would be the addition of wooden bleachers in the end zone.

To join the Big East 'Nova would have to build a whole new stadium.

[89Hen]

Why couldn't Delaware and Villanova be moved to the north and add ODU and GSU to the south?
No offense to anyone in the North, but I would hate that as a Hen fan and it doesn't make sense to move an all-sport member to the north where only Hofstra and Northeastern are all-sport. We'd lose out playing Towson, JMU, W&M, ODU, GSU who we play in all other sports. No thanks.

[89Hen]

Perhaps you've never seen Villanova's stadium MplsB. An upgrade would be the addition of wooden bleachers in the end zone.

To join the Big East 'Nova would have to build a whole new stadium.
xnodx but they'd have to do a lot more than just build a new stadium.

If by some stroke of madness the Big East ever tried to force Villanova's hand and said either join us for football or get out of the BE (I'm not even sure this is even possible), they would either get out or drop football.

[mcveyrl]

xnodx but they'd have to do a lot more than just build a new stadium.



You mean, like have more fans show up than the visiting team?

[Dane96]

Perhaps you've never seen Villanova's stadium MplsB. An upgrade would be the addition of wooden bleachers in the end zone.

To join the Big East 'Nova would have to build a whole new stadium.

Ummmm...nope. I would expect some kind of push-out of Temple and have 'Nova using Lincoln Financial.

That said, 'Nova is not moving up.

[DFW HOYA]

If by some stroke of madness the Big East ever tried to force Villanova's hand and said either join us for football or get out of the BE (I'm not even sure this is even possible), they would either get out or drop football.

The Big East doesn't want to push Villanova or Georgetown to move up. (A lot of political issues play into it.)

[Maroon&White]

Maine is further away from UMass than Nova, not sure whether anyone but UNH and Northeastern bus to them.

UMass does.

[mcveyrl]

Ummmm...nope. I would expect some kind of push-out of Temple and have 'Nova using Lincoln Financial.

That said, 'Nova is not moving up.

Just so we're clear, I don't think that 'Nova, in any way, shape or form could move up to BE football.

LF would never work for Villanova. They might fill the first row all the way around...

[Jackman]

You're going to be happy if CN8 chooses, say the ODU/W&M game in 2009 over UMass/UNH? And the TV revenue, while nothing like the big boys, is not insignificant either.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the TV revenue is next to nothing. I haven't seen our deal, but I know the MAC football members get less than $100k each from TV. The CAA North members could form a new conference and give away their TV rights for free, and still come out ahead if it means dropping the cost of a single away game in Virginia. TV revenue is irrelevant, it's not a reason to stay or go.

What matters is prestige and exposure. This is the best FCS conference. I'm not saying that to pick a fight with SoCon or MVC fans about the quality of the football on the field, I'm just saying when you look at the combination of the markets we represent, the number of playoff bids, and the number of Tier I and flagship universities, this is the place to play full scholarship FCS football. So I don't care if we only play a couple South division members per season. Some years the best South team will luck into an easy North schedule, and some years the best North team will luck into an easy South schedule. These things should balance out in the long run. But if we play like we're one of the top 10 programs in FCS, we're going to make the 20 team playoff field. Hell, it could be 24 by the time GState joins. And if we can't play like a top 10 team, we're not good enough to win the CAA anyway, so what's to complain about? Why would we want a regional Virginia conference and a regional New England conference instead of the CAA? The only good pro-split argument is that the full CAA members want more control and clarity regarding the branding of their conference name, and I think that has some merit, but right now they only have 6 full members playing football with 2 more on the way who haven't played a single down. And if you eject all the affiliate members from the North, how long does Northeastern hang in there considering that they just met in the past year to discuss folding football? They could quickly be down to 5+2 startups. Does that sound better than the current CAA?

There's no reason to do anything. By 2012 this may all be moot anyway.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Some years the best South team will luck into an easy North schedule, and some years the best North team will luck into an easy South schedule. These things should balance out in the long run.

But year-to-year this will cause serious imbalances - like, oh, 2007, when UNH played every single ranked CAA team and UMass entertained Towson and W&M.


But if we play like we're one of the top 10 programs in FCS, we're going to make the 20 team playoff field. Hell, it could be 24 by the time GState joins. And if we can't play like a top 10 team, we're not good enough to win the CAA anyway, so what's to complain about? Why would we want a regional Virginia conference and a regional New England conference instead of the CAA?

Why do you have to be in the CAA to be a Top 10 team? This is the part that you can't convince me about. If you broke CAA North off last year, you'd have had 3 Top 25 teams in your division.


The only good pro-split argument is that the full CAA members want more control and clarity regarding the branding of their conference name, and I think that has some merit, but right now they only have 6 full members playing football with 2 more on the way who haven't played a single down. And if you eject all the affiliate members from the North, how long does Northeastern hang in there considering that they just met in the past year to discuss folding football? They could quickly be down to 5+2 startups. Does that sound better than the current CAA?

Again, this is a small issue that can be worked out in a New Yankee conference administered by the CAA. Northeastern stays in the CAA in all sports, and sits in the regionally-based Yankee conference in football. Win-win. N'eastern's football costs all of a sudden decreased dramatically. OOC schedules now open up for up to 2 money games with FBS opponents in both leagues, while still having the ability to schedule CAA opponents.

And yes, it sounds better than the current team CAA if it's bloated with 14 teams.


There's no reason to do anything. By 2012 this may all be moot anyway.

People are putting an awful lot of stock in Big East affiliations that may or may not come to pass. I'm not at all sure that Syracuse and UConn is willing to put its lot in with USF and Cincinnati as the linchpin of a "new" BE. And the idea that UMass fits into this... we'll that's just laughable.

[bostonspider]

Well maybe we end up with two actual CAA Football Conferences. The CAA North and the CAA South. Would work something like the ECAC used to in the 80's. You play 6 games in your conference and then have an agreement where two are scheduled with the opposite conference. Both conference champs get auto-bids to the playoffs. I would move Towson to the CAA North and take ODU and GSU into the South.


CAA-N Conference
UNH
UMass
URI
UMaine
Northeasterm
Hofstra
Towson

CAA-S Conference
JMU
GSU
ODU
W&M
UR
UD
VU

[MplsBison]

NOPE

NOPE

Luckily for both programs you're just a fan and your opinion has zero influence on the program.


The fact is that with a new, large stadium, UDel could be a very attractive target for the BE.

And your whiny bitching wouldn't be able to stop them.

[MplsBison]

Perhaps you've never seen Villanova's stadium MplsB. An upgrade would be the addition of wooden bleachers in the end zone.

To join the Big East 'Nova would have to build a whole new stadium.


Perhaps you've heard of the Philadelphia Eagles?

They're a team in Philly. You might want to google them or something.

[mathman]

The Big East doesn't want to push Villanova or Georgetown to move up. (A lot of political issues play into it.)
I don't see why not. There are a number of teams both FBS and FCStoFBS wannabees that would just kill to take 'Nova's and G-town's place in the Big East. Among its fans, Georgia Southern would be willing.

And speaking of Georgia Southern, if they go FBS and fuel prices don't abate, I could see the CAA letting Georgia State go to take Ga Southern's place in the SoCon and ease travel costs for everybody (except for Ga Southern).:D

[UNHWildCats]

Theres lots of talk here about tv and tv money.

Does anyone think that after the tv switchover in February 2009 we could see more FCS games on tv?

With everything being all digital it opens up more room on tv. Im not sure how many levels each channel can have but like here in NYC ABC has 4 levels 07-01, 07-02, 07-03, 07-04 (01 is the main channel, 02 is continuious weather and so on....) One of the biggest issues with televising FCS games is that tv statiuons are limited in broadcast time but thats not going to be an issue. Sure some stations may opt to broadcast multipe FBS games but in places where local tv can broadcast local games but dont each week because of other comitments this can open air time for teams.

Now While I know broadcast channels have the multi tier, I dont know if the same is true for cable channels such as Fox Sports and ESPN. Does anyone know?

Can you imagine sitting down during March Madness and having all 4 games on at the same time so you can choose what you want, I dont know if they plan to do that, but they would be stupid not to.

Same for College football, make more games available at the same time instead of just regional coverage...

Even Fox Baseball games and NFL coverage can do this.

[henfan]

There is no significant revenue to be had from the CAA media deal with Comcast. This is not the ACC or SEC we're talking about. Let's explode that myth right now. More than anything, the FB deal with CN8/Comcast provides fair coverage to the affiliates and that's not likely to change anytime soon. (Aside from the great rivalries the affiliates provide, the CAA enjoys the intake of annual affiliate membership fees.)

As has been said before, there is no urgent need or apparent longing desire for any of the CAA FB affiliates to do anything or move anywhere, GSU or not. Those who toss out wild CAA FB defection scenarios fail to grasp the value the schools see in rivalries like UR-W&M, UR-JM, W&M-VU, VU-UD, UD-UNH, UD-UMass, etc. They also appear not to understand the competitive critical mass that would be needed for any new FB conference startup. (To throw the A-10's name out there really discredits any argument!)

As Gannonfan suggested, the CAA FB roster is bound to lose members at some point; just not in the forseeable future. No story here, I'm afraid.xcoffeex

[henfan]

Luckily for both programs you're just a fan and your opinion has zero influence on the program.


The fact is that with a new, large stadium, UDel could be a very attractive target for the BE.

And your whiny bitching wouldn't be able to stop them.

Bison, I'd think great fans like 89Hen would support his alma mater, no matter which level they're competing.

Being fairly close to the UD program and knowing VU as I have low these many years, I'd venture to say 89Hen was spot on. An FBS move for UD would require a total metamorphosis in the school's approach to athletics, a massive influx of revenue, a conference change, etc. Most of all, it would have to make sense... and dollars & cents. There's absolutely nothing brewing like that right now.

Could cultures change in Newark and the Main Line? Sure, that wouldn't be completely impossible, unlikely as it seems right now.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

They also appear not to understand the competitive critical mass that would be needed for any new FB conference startup. (To throw the A-10's name out there really discredits any argument!)

As Gannonfan suggested, the CAA FB roster is bound to lose members at some point; just not in the forseeable future. No story here, I'm afraid.xcoffeex

Dude, I will repeat this for the THIRD time. A Yankee conference administered by the CAA which is made up of the CAA North would be eligible for an autobid RIGHT AWAY since they would have competed together for more than 5 years.

Forget the A-10 and AE scenarios which have Northeastern going to the CAA and Richmond going to the A-10, or a thin number of AE members starting football and dragging in affiliates. That's the past. Today, a new autobid will be able to be put very easily added with the expanded playoffs. If a new Yankee conference gets an autobid right away and gets other benefits (like a real conference title to play for, opened OOC schedules, TV, etc.), what's the benefit of staying in a 14-team CAA?

It is a complete myth that a new Yankee conference would suffer any more competitively than a 14-team CAA. The north teams would play each other and play 2-3 OOC games with CAA teams (or FBS, SoCon, NEC, Patriot...). In a 14 team CAA, you'd be playing (I presume) 6 games with CAA North teams... and 2 CAA games with South teams. What's the freakin' difference?

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

It is a complete myth that a new Yankee conference would suffer any more competitively than a 14-team CAA. The north teams would play each other and play 2-3 OOC games with CAA teams (or FBS, SoCon, NEC, Patriot...). In a 14 team CAA, you'd be playing (I presume) 6 games with CAA North teams... and 2 CAA games with South teams. What's the freakin' difference?

Sorry, but I see no way that JMU or UD (and the rest of the CAA South for that matter) would regularly schedule home and home's with UNH (or Maine) unless it was mandated by the conference.

Putting together a playoff worthy slate year after year would be a nightmare.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Sorry, but I see no way that JMU or UD (and the rest of the CAA South for that matter) would regularly schedule home and home's with UNH (or Maine) unless it was mandated by the conference.

Putting together a playoff worthy slate year after year would be a nightmare.

If you stay CAA, you'll get JMU and UD twice - once home, once away - every seven years. Not exactly a great bargain.

[mizzoufan1]

Well maybe we end up with two actual CAA Football Conferences. The CAA North and the CAA South. Would work something like the ECAC used to in the 80's. You play 6 games in your conference and then have an agreement where two are scheduled with the opposite conference. Both conference champs get auto-bids to the playoffs. I would move Towson to the CAA North and take ODU and GSU into the South.


CAA-N Conference
UNH
UMass
URI
UMaine
Northeasterm
Hofstra
Towson

CAA-S Conference
JMU
GSU
ODU
W&M
UR
UD
VU

This looks like a valid idea...but I don't think it will ever come fruition. Like I said earlier...when the next set of Conference shakeups start the CAA will get swept up in the current like everyone else.

[MplsBison]

Dude, I will repeat this for the THIRD time. A Yankee conference administered by the CAA which is made up of the CAA North would be eligible for an autobid RIGHT AWAY since they would have competed together for more than 5 years.

Forget the A-10 and AE scenarios which have Northeastern going to the CAA and Richmond going to the A-10, or a thin number of AE members starting football and dragging in affiliates. That's the past. Today, a new autobid will be able to be put very easily added with the expanded playoffs. If a new Yankee conference gets an autobid right away and gets other benefits (like a real conference title to play for, opened OOC schedules, TV, etc.), what's the benefit of staying in a 14-team CAA?

It is a complete myth that a new Yankee conference would suffer any more competitively than a 14-team CAA. The north teams would play each other and play 2-3 OOC games with CAA teams (or FBS, SoCon, NEC, Patriot...). In a 14 team CAA, you'd be playing (I presume) 6 games with CAA North teams... and 2 CAA games with South teams. What's the freakin' difference?


Just be careful what you wish for, LFN.

A new Yankee conference would only accept Lehigh, Lafayette and Colgate if you agreed to give real scholarships.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

If you stay CAA, you'll get JMU and UD twice - once home, once away - every seven years. Not exactly a great bargain.

That's 2 out of 7 years taken care of......

And that part about (the rest of the south) would fill in the other 5.

Start naming quality programs willing to make the trip to Durham, it's a very short list.

[MplsBison]

Why do you want such a hard NC schedule when you have such a tough conference?

Bring in NEC and PioL teams for guarantee games.

[aceinthehole]

If you stay CAA, you'll get JMU and UD twice - once home, once away - every seven years. Not exactly a great bargain.

This is the thing that I think UNH, Maine, and UMass fans keep forgetting. If you have 14 teams in the CAA and Delaware (or JMU, W&M, etc) is not in your division you DO NOT have a home and home arraingement! You likely get to play that team twice in an 7-8 year period.

[ur2k]

Dude, I will repeat this for the THIRD time. A Yankee conference administered by the CAA which is made up of the CAA North would be eligible for an autobid RIGHT AWAY since they would have competed together for more than 5 years.

Forget the A-10 and AE scenarios which have Northeastern going to the CAA and Richmond going to the A-10, or a thin number of AE members starting football and dragging in affiliates. That's the past. Today, a new autobid will be able to be put very easily added with the expanded playoffs. If a new Yankee conference gets an autobid right away and gets other benefits (like a real conference title to play for, opened OOC schedules, TV, etc.), what's the benefit of staying in a 14-team CAA?

It is a complete myth that a new Yankee conference would suffer any more competitively than a 14-team CAA. The north teams would play each other and play 2-3 OOC games with CAA teams (or FBS, SoCon, NEC, Patriot...). In a 14 team CAA, you'd be playing (I presume) 6 games with CAA North teams... and 2 CAA games with South teams. What's the freakin' difference?

Why would the CAA want to administer a conference that is not the CAA? What's the benefit there?

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

This is the thing that I think UNH, Maine, and UMass fans keep forgetting. If you have 14 teams in the CAA and Delaware (or JMU, W&M, etc) is not in your division you DO NOT have a home and home arraingement! You likely get to play that team twice in an 7-8 year period.

We're not forgetting anything. We know it will become more than twice in four years like today. But continued CAA membership will include a constant cycling of South teams every year. That won't happen if it isn't the CAA. There isn't a snowball's chance in hades that the CAA South teams schedule home and home series as OOC games with Maine, URI, UNH or UMass. That's the part that I think LFN doesn't seem to grasp, he assumes those games will continue to be on the North schedules, not true. There isn't any way that the quality of schedule for UNH for example would remain as strong as it is today.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

UNH, your answers are perfectly legitimate - having said that, this would be my rebuttal to them.



The first and third I can see, but I don't see the second. If Maine, UNH, URI, UMass, Northeastern and Hofstra form a new conference, how is this functionally different than what you have now, especially if there are 2 or 3 OOC games with the CAA anyway? xconfusedx You're in effect competing against them now - after all, you yourself say there is no CAA "championship". What do you care?

Northeastern and Hofstra are all sports members of the CAA, they won't be leaving to form a new conference. So that's a bad assumption on your part. Just like two or three OOC games with the CAA (see prior post replying to Ace). My opinion is that it won't happen, that should clear up your confusion. If there was a reasonable chance of having Northeastern and Hofstra in the mix, then there would be a much easier sell for a "new Yankee". But without something radical, that just isn't happening.


If the northern half forms their own league by doing a clean split, they would qualify for an autobid right away since they've competed together for five years. I fail to see why the "likely" OOC schedules would offer fewer bids as long as you get CAA teams on the schedule.

That's not how I see it.


Because without eight games like today's CAA schedule, the northern schools won't have the resume to earn those multiple bids. And my opinion is that Maine, URI and UNH won't be able to continue recruiting the same level of athlete. Being a member of the CAA Football league is an asset in recruiting, one that helps UNH offset terrible facilities. You're assuming the quality of programs will remain the same and I think they'll regress. Sorry, but a schedule loaded with NEC teams won't provide the same resume. And over all these discussions, you've never stated anything that leads me to believe that the Patriot will all of a sudden be a lucrative source of OOC games.



It doesn't have to be AE that does the administration. It could be a new football-only Yankee conference - administered out of the CAA offices, just like the MVFC and PFL are administered out of the MVC. Functionally the NYFC would be aligned with the CAA.

Doesn't make much difference unless it mandates a constant stream of CAA South teams on the schedules of the North teams.


You're going to be happy if CN8 chooses, say the ODU/W&M game in 2009 over UMass/UNH? And the TV revenue, while nothing like the big boys, is not insignificant either.

I attend games in person so what games are on TV is a secondary factor to me. NESN might pick up the game, but like others have said, there isn't enough revenue to lose any sleep over.

[UNHWildCats]

This is the thing that I think UNH, Maine, and UMass fans keep forgetting. If you have 14 teams in the CAA and Delaware (or JMU, W&M, etc) is not in your division you DO NOT have a home and home arraingement! You likely get to play that team twice in an 7-8 year period.
you still would get a game at home and a game on the road against the teams when it rotated around to you.... Just because its 2 games every 7 years or whatever doesnt mean the games will always be in Delaware or in Virginia. I would assume they will still schedule it like now where you face the teams in back to back years then move on to the other groups of teams.

[Dane96]

Guys...I am sorry...some of you I consider friends but you are letting BLINDNESS OF FOOTBALL QUALITY affect you.

Right now...there is a MAJOR crisis-- fuel is affecting the airline, bus, and train industry like no other. The trains are not prepared to handle the influx of passengers both locally and long distance. They, however, have seen the light and are increasing fees. Add to that State budget cuts almost across the board in the US...and you will see ancillary things, e.g. arts/sports in college, feeling the pinch.

With the limited amounts of schools that turn profits, better BELIEVE that ADEPTS across the country are going to see their budgets tightened. Now, people go on and say it may not effect football...and you may be right. But to say Hofstra, NU, GA State...any school...would not consider leaving a conference to take a "step back" athletically is simply not a SCHOOL ADMINISTRATOR.

Facts are facts...and budgets crunches and increasing prices in insurance, travel, food, and administration WILL AFFECT FOOTBALL and OLYMPIC SPORTS. Those schools in far flung conferences (not just the CAA) will feel the crunch.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

D96, I think I'm most blinded by the comments over the years from folks of the schools in discussion on the various message boards!! For example, I'm thinking about a certain NU Husky fan over on the CAAZone who would probably have a seizure if Northeastern went back to America East. (Not AGS member Husky Alum.) I've read comments from a few Hofstra folks who would probably have a similar reaction. And don't forget the Rhody Ram who frequents the AE Forum. I can see the fundraising drive in Kingston (and Amherst) now, if we don't raise this money, we'll be forced to join America East for all sports! xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

But seriously, you raise a valid point and it's one that I hadn't considered. So far, I haven't seen nor heard any assessment of the impact of energy costs on an athletic department. That will be an interesting topic to follow in the coming months.

[Jackman]

Here's a sample of a few CAA travel budgets I could find from 2006:

Maine: $287,342
UMass: $261,219
UNH: $217,063
JMU: $207,032
URI: $199,488
Towson: $126,434

UMass is probably a little high that year due to the run to the championship game. Maine obviously suffers from being remote. In 2006, travel costs represented 7 to 8% of the team's entire operating budget, except at Maine where travel accounted for 12%.

Anyway, while fuel cost increases since 2006 certainly don't help, it's still a comparatively small expense. A 50% fuel cost increase would just mean our football budgets more closely resemble Maine's. Excluding playoffs, we're only traveling 5 or 6 times per season. UMass only gets on a plane twice this season: once to Texas Tech, where they're paying us more than our entire 2006 travel budget to show up, and once to James Madison, who we'd probably welcome a home-and-home with even if they weren't in our conference. The rest of our away games are all short bus trips, nothing more than 2.5 hours away. In Division 1, FCS football in the eastern United States is probably the least impacted by fuel costs. We have a huge supply of local teams we can play. It's the isolated western FCS programs who are going to get beat up by this, as well as the spread out FBS conferences. Northern Colorado would love to have more away games as close-by as the CAA South is to the CAA North.

[MplsBison]

There'll be no championship game - seriously, there's no money in having something like that unless there's a major TV contract to go along with it and a few weeks to plan for it. Not going to happen with no TV contract and one week to make plans to attend.

I already solved this problem in another thread.

The CAA simply makes arrangements (charters two planes, makes 2 sets of hotel/bus/catering reservations, etc.) and gives them to the 2 teams that end up in the game.

[Husky Alum]

D96, I think I'm most blinded by the comments over the years from folks of the schools in discussion on the various message boards!! For example, I'm thinking about a certain NU Husky fan over on the CAAZone who would probably have a seizure if Northeastern went back to America East. (Not AGS member Husky Alum.) I've read comments from a few Hofstra folks who would probably have a similar reaction. And don't forget the Rhody Ram who frequents the AE Forum. I can see the fundraising drive in Kingston (and Amherst) now, if we don't raise this money, we'll be forced to join America East for all sports! xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

But seriously, you raise a valid point and it's one that I hadn't considered. So far, I haven't seen nor heard any assessment of the impact of energy costs on an athletic department. That will be an interesting topic to follow in the coming months.

I'm tied up in off site stuff at work right now, but I'll write my dissertation on CAA Football/AE Football, etc. sometime tomorrow.

If it were up to me, NU wouldn't be playing football right now, but......

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

If you stay CAA, you'll get JMU and UD twice - once home, once away - every seven years. Not exactly a great bargain.

And that's once more in seven years then we'd have a home and home with them if we were outside the CAA. It's a much better bargain than the OOC options not being in the CAA! (Can Lehigh get a home and home with Delaware?) And the other years the CAA schedules would include cross over games with Towson, Richmond, Villanova, William & Mary, and ODU. That's a very nice seven year mix of games and a much better bargain than replacing them with Patriot, NEC and Ivy teams as well as significantly better than having to travel even farther to the Deep South or Midwest for OOC games because the Ivies and Patriot teams won't budge on their scheduling philosophy.

Sorry LFN, but once again you've failed to provide any arguments that make me even think about changing my opinion. And I still haven't seen any links documenting the so called issues you brought up. Fourteen teams isn't perfect by any means, but I'll take it in a heartbeat over a situation like the Patriot where you don't have six all sports members playing football. JMHO, but that is not a solid foundation for a league and the reason I reject virtually every proposal for a "new Yankee" (none of them have 7-8 all sports members playing football). You have the right to have the opinion that the CAA is too big, but for the life of me I don't understand why it gets you so fired up. xconfusedx Is it harming Lehigh or the Patriot?

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I'm tied up in off site stuff at work right now, but I'll write my dissertation on CAA Football/AE Football, etc. sometime tomorrow.

If it were up to me, NU wouldn't be playing football right now, but......

Holy shyte, I can't believe what I just read!!!!! xeekx xeekx xeekx xeekx xeekx Never thought I'd hear you utter those words! I anxiously await the dissertation!!

[MplsBison]

If NU gets to play in this supposed new MLS stadium for the Revs, maybe he would change his mind?

[danefan]

Word from the UAlbany Football Golf Alumni gathering re: conference affiliation were very limited this year.

Essentially the feeling amongst the UA admins was that the impression they have received from CAA North team admins was that they are not at all happy playing in a 14 team league.

Take that for what it is. No other info available on that front.

[Husky Alum]

If NU gets to play in this supposed new MLS stadium for the Revs, maybe he would change his mind?

You'll be sunbathing in 90 degree weather in January in Fargo before the new MLS Stadium for the Revs ever gets built. If it does get built, NU will have the nicest facility in the FCS, and we'll be playing football for a long, long time. The problem is, it's not likely to happen. However, I've seen the artists rendering of the stadium, and it's simply beautiful. About 20,000 seats, the building will blend in with NU's existing buildings and the Boston Police Department, and NU football and the Revs will be co-primary tenants. The deal I heard was that the Revs get right of first refusal for ALL dates until Labor Day, then on Saturday afternoons in the fall, NU has right of first refusal during the MLS season. If the Revs make the playoffs, they can bump an NU game time, not date on a Saturday. However, that's like arguing who's going to be in Mitt Romney's cabinet if he gets elected this fall.

Unfortunately, NU football at Parsons field is not a sustainable event. Football was taken off of life support for reasons that had NOTHING to do with football or its cost - but I'm not in a position to air NU's laundry here. From a practical point of view, we play at a junior high field that no one knows how to get to, no one wants to get to, and as a result, no students go to the games.

Recruiting is tough enough, but when you're the lowest funded football program (I'm excluding the cost of scholarships, because NU's scholarship costs distort how much we "spend" on football) and you have a field that's a joke, you just wonder if the dollars and cents are better spent on sports that people at NU care about - like hockey, and basketball, and yes - crew. Our olympic sports are also far behind in funding in the CAA.

A 14 team CAA is NOT sustainable long term - no one can look anyone in the constitution of the conference for football and say it makes sense.

UNH Alum makes MANY valid points why UNH will never vote to leave the CAA to play in an America East conference without Hofstra, UMass and/or NU - it's OOC would change dramatically if there was America Least football without Hofstra, UMass and/or NU.

Let's just argue and say that URI, UNH and Maine joined forces with Albany, SBU and Central CT for America East football. That gives UNH 5 league games a year. It needs 7 OOC's to compete it's docket. One money game brings it down to 6. NU would do a home/home with UNH to make a 7th game. Dartmouth is 8, UMass would likely be 9 - where does UNH get 2 other games (one home, one road) on a consistent basis? Maybe Hofstra - but the "power" names on the current schedule (UD, JMU, W&M, and perhaps Nova) aren't going to give UNH a home and home - maybe a 2 for 1, but that's not what UNH wants.

The ideas of a reconstituted A-10 for football with Duquesne, Fordham, Richmond, UMass, URI, UNH, and Maine (plus probably Albany and SBU as affiliates) does make some sense - that's a 9 team league, but why would Richmond sign up for that? They would arguably incuring MORE travel costs in a seemingly lesser league. UMass might argue the same reason (with the exception of travel). If that league was able to lure in an NU - with the promise of all sports membership when the A-10 shakeup occurs, that may make sense from a financial standpoint.

[MplsBison]

Kraft seems like a guy who can get a stadium built to me.

And he isn't shy about using his own money to finance it either.



I guess I fail to see how he can get a new stadium built for the Pats but not for the Revs?


What is currently sitting on the land that would be used for the new stadium?

[Dane96]

What is sitting on the land?

Mayor Menino's fat arse...and his want for "his people" to be involved. There is not a more powerful public leader NORTH of Washington, D.C. than Mayor Menino.

And...I am not exaggerating that point.

[MplsBison]

He connected down Providence?

*snicker*

[Dane96]

No. Ironically...Menino's power is not the mob. He's just built up a ridiculous amount of minions and people who owe him.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

UNH Alum makes MANY valid points why UNH will never vote to leave the CAA to play in an America East conference without Hofstra, UMass and/or NU - it's OOC would change dramatically if there was America Least football without Hofstra, UMass and/or NU.

Let's just argue and say that URI, UNH and Maine joined forces with Albany, SBU and Central CT for America East football. That gives UNH 5 league games a year. It needs 7 OOC's to compete it's docket. One money game brings it down to 6. NU would do a home/home with UNH to make a 7th game. Dartmouth is 8, UMass would likely be 9 - where does UNH get 2 other games (one home, one road) on a consistent basis? Maybe Hofstra - but the "power" names on the current schedule (UD, JMU, W&M, and perhaps Nova) aren't going to give UNH a home and home - maybe a 2 for 1, but that's not what UNH wants.

The ideas of a reconstituted A-10 for football with Duquesne, Fordham, Richmond, UMass, URI, UNH, and Maine (plus probably Albany and SBU as affiliates) does make some sense - that's a 9 team league, but why would Richmond sign up for that? They would arguably incuring MORE travel costs in a seemingly lesser league. UMass might argue the same reason (with the exception of travel). If that league was able to lure in an NU - with the promise of all sports membership when the A-10 shakeup occurs, that may make sense from a financial standpoint.

I will politely bring up again: an AE conference or a reconstituted A-10 would lose an autobid and would be frought with "uncertainty", while a new Yankee conference administered by the CAA would provide an autobid and at least a good working relationship with the existing CAA. Plus, it allows Northeastern and Hofstra to keep a good working relationship with the CAA while still holding down travel costs. Richmond/Villanova would not be needed.

Everyone at this point knows that a reconstituted AE is not a good option (and the A-10 option is even worse). But a new Yankee conference made of of some CAA teams (Hofstra, N'Eastern) and a slew of northern affiliates while (importantly) still operating out of the CAA league office... that's different.

A six-team north with N'eastern and Hofstra - maybe add Stony Brook and Albany to the mix down the line (remember, coming from existing autobid conferences and with teams at 63 scholarships). Talk about saving on travel costs. Fordham may even want to sign up (although, as a PL fan, I hope it doesn't come to that).

It's worth giving this up for playing Delaware and JMU at home once this coming decade?

[DFW HOYA]

I will politely bring up again: an AE conference or a reconstituted A-10 would lose an autobid and would be frought with "uncertainty", while a new Yankee conference administered by the CAA would provide an autobid and at least a good working relationship with the existing CAA. Plus, it allows Northeastern and Hofstra to keep a good working relationship with the CAA while still holding down travel costs. ...Fordham may even want to sign up (although, as a PL fan, I hope it doesn't come to that).


An AE conference does not pose a threat to the Patriot as it would be comprised of large, state institutions. An A-10 conference would be a shot across the bow and put the PL autobid in danger.

An A-10 conference could certainly target a Fordham program whose budget is already at a scholarship level and who has seen (much as its fellow associate member is now seeing) the promise of Ivy games go unfulfilled. (Fordham now gets only one a year, while other PL schools will see 3-5 in one season.) The opportunity to play fellow A-10 schools and have the opportunity, however narrow, of a I-A game, as in days of old, ought not to be ignored.

[OLPOP]

DFW-- Fordham has two Ivys in '08 and '09. Columbia, as always, Yale this year and Cornell next year. I don't know what comes after that.

[OLPOP]

DFW-- I hit send too soon. I meant to add that you're correct. A league such as you describe could be very attractive to Ram fans.

[Seawolf97]

A 9 team A-10 with Stonybrook and Albany as affiliates would be great. Thats 8 conference games with 1 FBS game and two non conference games a season. That would be a pretty strong conference with Richmond and UNH in it.

[Seawolf97]

An AE conference does not pose a threat to the Patriot as it would be comprised of large, state institutions. An A-10 conference would be a shot across the bow and put the PL autobid in danger.

An A-10 conference could certainly target a Fordham program whose budget is already at a scholarship level and who has seen (much as its fellow associate member is now seeing) the promise of Ivy games go unfulfilled. (Fordham now gets only one a year, while other PL schools will see 3-5 in one season.) The opportunity to play fellow A-10 schools and have the opportunity, however narrow, of a I-A game, as in days of old, ought not to be ignored.

If Fordham went to 63 scholarships as probably would be required in a new A-10 there would be no reason why they couldnt play an FBS program once a season.

[89Hen]

Luckily for both programs you're just a fan and your opinion has zero influence on the program.


The fact is that with a new, large stadium, UDel could be a very attractive target for the BE.

And your whiny bitching wouldn't be able to stop them.
Nope, nope and nope again. You are really on a roll.

[MplsBison]

Nope, nope and nope again.

Yep, yep, yep!


Now you say "nope, nope, nope"!



I love these Delaware elementary school games!

[henfan]

I will politely bring up again: an AE conference or a reconstituted A-10 would lose an autobid and would be frought with "uncertainty", while a new Yankee conference administered by the CAA would provide an autobid and at least a good working relationship with the existing CAA. Plus, it allows Northeastern and Hofstra to keep a good working relationship with the CAA while still holding down travel costs. Richmond/Villanova would not be needed.

And what branding incentive would be provided and membership precident set if the CAA were to allow core members HU and NU to compete as affiliates in another FB league? [That's a rhetorical question.] The CAA has implemented a prohibition in allowing its teams to compete as affiliates elsewhere if the CAA sponsors the sport.

Understand that it took the CAA a decade and a half to to land a FB league so that it could enhance its brand and strengthen its membership ties. The league nearly went kaput 8 years ago because it allowed core members to place their FB programs in other leagues (see UR and ECU.) Those are scars that haven't gone away. IMO, it's tremendously far-fetched to think the CAA would allow that happen all over again without some overwhelming incentive.

You do realize that the YankCon FB league agreed to be absorbed by the A-10 in 1997 in response to the NCAA's decision to remove its D-I voting representation under a restructuring plan? How would schools like UNH and UMaine have their voices heard in D-I matters if a single-sport league like the reconstituted Yankee didn't have the ability to cast a vote with the NCAA? [Again, rhetorical.]

Yes, travel costs will always be an issue, but it's not as much an issue with FB conference dates. Each away date is reciprocated by a visit from the opposition. It's as close to a revenue-neutral arrangement as schools like UMaine, UNH, & URI are going to get competing at the FCS level. The make-or-break deals are the noncon dates. As it stands right now, CAA member schools only have to find 3 noncon dates in the typical 11-game season. Reducing the league size simply means that those schools would have to find more schools to visit Orono, Durham and Kingston each year. That's the kind of stuff that keeps ADs up at night.xnodx

[mainejeff]

The CAA TV package split among 14 schools is better than what the northern schools would get on their own.

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

xeyebrowx

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

When do the $millions from the CAA TV package start rolling in? xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[mainejeff]

Can you provide a link that substantiates your claim of it being an issue? The only "issues" I've heard raised have been from non-CAA folks.

FWIW, GaStU can get non-stop flights to every North school just like to the South schools. Well, maybe not Portland or Bangor, Maine without a charter after the airlines gut their flights.

Also, to partially answer other's questions, UNH flies to all the South schools on commercial, either SouthWest or Jet Blue, rather than charter. Never heard a complaint about the travel costs.

Southwest and Jet Blue do not serve Atlanta (and Jet Blue does not serve Manchester/Boston for that matter xconfusedx)

Air Tran flies out of both Atlanta and Portland.

Delta has non-stop flights to Portland and Manchester/Boston Regional.

Flying from Atlanta to Portland is on average $100-$150 cheaper than flying into Manchester/Boston now. :)

[mainejeff]

This is the thing that I think UNH, Maine, and UMass fans keep forgetting. If you have 14 teams in the CAA and Delaware (or JMU, W&M, etc) is not in your division you DO NOT have a home and home arraingement! You likely get to play that team twice in an 7-8 year period.

I haven't forgot it. ;)

I would like to see a more regional conference for Maine......not because I want them to deemphasize football, but to save on costs as well as develop stronger conference rivalries. No offense to the Southern half of the CAA.......but most Maine fans don't know the difference between JMU and Towson. Delaware is the only school from the South that may attract a casual fan or 2........but a high national ranking (top 10) is what gets the most attention. There just isn't a lot of interest now in who Maine plays......I think Maine fans are more concerned about the home team recently than who they are playing. By the time Maine plays their true rivals (UNH/UMass/URI)......most fans have already jumped off the bandwagon or sit at home to watch the game.......those 3 are always in November :(.

[mainejeff]

Guys...I am sorry...some of you I consider friends but you are letting BLINDNESS OF FOOTBALL QUALITY affect you.

Right now...there is a MAJOR crisis-- fuel is affecting the airline, bus, and train industry like no other. The trains are not prepared to handle the influx of passengers both locally and long distance. They, however, have seen the light and are increasing fees. Add to that State budget cuts almost across the board in the US...and you will see ancillary things, e.g. arts/sports in college, feeling the pinch.

With the limited amounts of schools that turn profits, better BELIEVE that ADEPTS across the country are going to see their budgets tightened. Now, people go on and say it may not effect football...and you may be right. But to say Hofstra, NU, GA State...any school...would not consider leaving a conference to take a "step back" athletically is simply not a SCHOOL ADMINISTRATOR.

Facts are facts...and budgets crunches and increasing prices in insurance, travel, food, and administration WILL AFFECT FOOTBALL and OLYMPIC SPORTS. Those schools in far flung conferences (not just the CAA) will feel the crunch.

Thank-you for bringing a bit of REALITY to this conversation! xthumbsupx

[mainejeff]

Here's a sample of a few CAA travel budgets I could find from 2006:

Maine: $287,342
UMass: $261,219
UNH: $217,063
JMU: $207,032
URI: $199,488
Towson: $126,434

Thankfully......Maine has had a steady diet of BIG paydays........the program brings in much more revenue now then they did in the 1990s. xnodx

[Husky Alum]

Southwest and Jet Blue do not serve Atlanta (and Jet Blue does not serve Manchester/Boston for that matter xconfusedx)

Jet Blue DOES service Boston - or that plane I flew on last week must have been a figment of my imagination.

MJ does bring up an interesting point on CAA scheduling - the "traditional" rivals for each division seem to be played in late October or November. I don't think NU's played Maine or UMass in September or early October in ages.

NU and Maine are longstanding rivals, and maybe a casual fan would come out to see the game in September or October - but if the game is played in November when both teams are out of it - eh, not sure that's going to draw people.

JMU and Towson are the more "Semi anonymous" teams in the South. Most NU folks have more of a working knowledge of all of the Southern teams since we're a full member of the CAA. It seems to me that outside of the visiting team following, we seem to get more fans for Nova, and W&M than we do for other Southern conference foes.

To a person, NU enjoys being in the CAA. It's a conference with a direction, and a vision - unlike the America East which appeared to be more of a scheduling alliance with championships. There's an esprit d'corps among CAA conference members that I never felt in the AE - and we've been playing most of the AE schools for decades. I see someone with a W&M or a JMU shirt while traveling for business, and if I'm wearing something from NU - the conversation immediately turns to the conference.

Unfortunately we haven't received institutional support for us to compete consistently in all sports in the CAA.

[Jackman]

Jet Blue DOES service Boston - or that plane I flew on last week must have been a figment of my imagination.

For the avoidance of further confusion of non-locals: Boston Logan Airport has Jet Blue service, Manchester-Boston Regional Airport does not. However, Boston Logan is only about 25 minutes further away from Durham than Manchester-is-nowhere-near-Boston Airport, so they're pretty much interchangeable options for UNH.

[mainejeff]

Jet Blue DOES service Boston - or that plane I flew on last week must have been a figment of my imagination.

Jet Blue DOES NOT serve Manchester/Boston Regional Airport. xpeacex

[MplsBison]

For the avoidance of further confusion of non-locals: Boston Logan Airport has Jet Blue service, Manchester-Boston Regional Airport does not. However, Boston Logan is only about 25 minutes further away from Durham than Manchester-is-nowhere-near-Boston Airport, so they're pretty much interchangeable options for UNH.

Furthermore, charter planes can fly to many different small airports that the plane operator (Delta, etc.) might not even serve.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Southwest and Jet Blue do not serve Atlanta (and Jet Blue does not serve Manchester/Boston for that matter xconfusedx)

Air Tran flies out of both Atlanta and Portland.

Delta has non-stop flights to Portland and Manchester/Boston Regional.

Flying from Atlanta to Portland is on average $100-$150 cheaper than flying into Manchester/Boston now. :)

Jet Blue does fly out of Boston with a non-stop to Richmond. Boston's Logan Airport is virtually as easy to fly out of for UNH as Manchester. That flight and SW non-stops to Philly and Baltimore from Manchester are the travel routes to the CAA South for UNH. Did I ever say or insinuate that UNH only flew out of Manchester? xrolleyesx

I'm glad that Atlanta to Portland is cheaper so that Maine won't have a hardship when GA State comes on the schedule.

[andy7171]

I haven't forgot it. ;)

I would like to see a more regional conference for Maine......not because I want them to deemphasize football, but to save on costs as well as develop stronger conference rivalries. No offense to the Southern half of the CAA.......but most Maine fans don't know the difference between JMU and Towson. Delaware is the only school from the South that may attract a casual fan or 2........but a high national ranking (top 10) is what gets the most attention. There just isn't a lot of interest now in who Maine plays......I think Maine fans are more concerned about the home team recently than who they are playing. By the time Maine plays their true rivals (UNH/UMass/URI)......most fans have already jumped off the bandwagon or sit at home to watch the game.......those 3 are always in November :(.

In case no one knows, November games in Maine suck! I speak from experience, getting our a$$es kicked didn't help the weather either. xwhistlex xwhistlex xoopsx

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I haven't forgot it. ;)

I would like to see a more regional conference for Maine......not because I want them to deemphasize football, but to save on costs as well as develop stronger conference rivalries. No offense to the Southern half of the CAA.......but most Maine fans don't know the difference between JMU and Towson. Delaware is the only school from the South that may attract a casual fan or 2........but a high national ranking (top 10) is what gets the most attention. There just isn't a lot of interest now in who Maine plays......I think Maine fans are more concerned about the home team recently than who they are playing. By the time Maine plays their true rivals (UNH/UMass/URI)......most fans have already jumped off the bandwagon or sit at home to watch the game.......those 3 are always in November :(.

Geez Jeff, the South schools have been in our football conference for a long time now. Delaware and JMU have won the National Championship. Richmond and W&M have been to the semi-finals. And Hofstra, Towson and Delaware have been in America East with Maine. Villanova is a Big East school. JMHO, but there's been plenty of time for Maine fans to become familiar with our Southern mates.

Just curious, what more regional conference will allow Maine to be a consistent Top Ten program? What more regional conference would also provide the 7-8 all sports members that I assume you think you'd need to build those stronger conference rivalries. I sure haven't seen any "new Yankee" proposals that will do than IMHO. And I doubt Maine fans will recognize Central CT, Sacred Heart, Marist, Monmouth, Wagner or Bryant better than our current mates. Pittsburgh (Robert Morris and Duquesne) would be as expensive as trips to the CAA South. Most years isn't there just one trip to the CAA South?

Next time JMU (or Richmond or W&M) is scheduled to come to Maine or UNH, please lobby your AD to switch our game to earlier in the season and I'll do the same. If we have to play in the heat of September in Virginia, then they should have to play up North in the cold of November. ;) xwhistlex :D

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Thank-you for bringing a bit of REALITY to this conversation! xthumbsupx

Do you really think that reality is going to bring UMass and URI into the America East or any other all sports conference with Maine and UNH? xconfusedx I sure don't think so. If it will bring Northeastern and Hofstra back into the mix, then we have a starting point for a new discussion. You can go back and read my past posts and I believe you'll see I've been consistent with my opinion that any new football affiliation that UNH should take seriously has to include Northeastern and Hofstra as all sports members.

[mainejeff]

Geez Jeff, the South schools have been in our football conference for a long time now. Delaware and JMU have won the National Championship. Richmond and W&M have been to the semi-finals. And Hofstra, Towson and Delaware have been in America East with Maine. Villanova is a Big East school. JMHO, but there's been plenty of time for Maine fans to become familiar with our Southern mates.

Just curious, what more regional conference will allow Maine to be a consistent Top Ten program? What more regional conference would also provide the 7-8 all sports members that I assume you think you'd need to build those stronger conference rivalries. I sure haven't seen any "new Yankee" proposals that will do than IMHO. And I doubt Maine fans will recognize Central CT, Sacred Heart, Marist, Monmouth, Wagner or Bryant better than our current mates. Pittsburgh (Robert Morris and Duquesne) would be as expensive as trips to the CAA South. Most years isn't there just one trip to the CAA South?

Next time JMU (or Richmond or W&M) is scheduled to come to Maine or UNH, please lobby your AD to switch our game to earlier in the season and I'll do the same. If we have to play in the heat of September in Virginia, then they should have to play up North in the cold of November. ;) xwhistlex :D

You keep hoping that UNH will be the next William & Mary in the classroom and Delaware on the field.......and I'll keep dealing with the reality that Maine keeps playing it's biggest rivals (UNH, UMass, and URI) to crowds that you can count on 2 hands in November. Maine could play ANYONE on a Saturday night in September and draw a capacity crowd. NO ONE cares about national championship teams in Orono unless Maine is the one wearing the ring. xthumbsupx

[mainejeff]

Do you really think that reality is going to bring UMass and URI into the America East or any other all sports conference with Maine and UNH? xconfusedx I sure don't think so. If it will bring Northeastern and Hofstra back into the mix, then we have a starting point for a new discussion. You can go back and read my past posts and I believe you'll see I've been consistent with my opinion that any new football affiliation that UNH should take seriously has to include Northeastern and Hofstra as all sports members.

I'm talking about travel and budgets......something you seem to consistently ignore. ;)

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

FWIW, GaStU can get non-stop flights to every North school just like to the South schools. Well, maybe not Portland or Bangor, Maine without a charter after the airlines gut their flights.




Southwest and Jet Blue do not serve Atlanta (and Jet Blue does not serve Manchester/Boston for that matter xconfusedx)

Air Tran flies out of both Atlanta and Portland.

Delta has non-stop flights to Portland and Manchester/Boston Regional.

Flying from Atlanta to Portland is on average $100-$150 cheaper than flying into Manchester/Boston now. :)

Geez, were we in a selective reading mood last night? ;) xpeacex

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I'm talking about travel and budgets......something you seem to consistently ignore. ;)

I don't ignore them at all and I'm very concerned about them. I believe I try to stay very well grounded in reality. My perception of reality is that UMass and URI don't want to be in an all sports league with UNH and Maine no matter how much it would save their athletic departments. And Northeastern and Hofstra are all sports members of the CAA; therefore, they can't play football as an affiliate in another conference. Without at least two of the four as all sports members how do you get a more regional conference that provides Maine the foundation to be a Top 10 program? How do you get a quality conference with reduced travel and budget?

If you have any credible information that any of these four schools are ready to make a radical change, then please share it and I'll adjust my vision of reality and apply it to travel and budgets.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

You keep hoping that UNH will be the next William & Mary in the classroom and Delaware on the field

What's wrong with that? Not that I ever said it. FWIW, our football team did pretty darned well academically, one that made that category getting NCAA recognition, and the APR is quite good. And I enjoy my alma mater being associated with like minded schools who value excellence.


.......and I'll keep dealing with the reality that Maine keeps playing it's biggest rivals (UNH, UMass, and URI) to crowds that you can count on 2 hands in November. Maine could play ANYONE on a Saturday night in September and draw a capacity crowd. NO ONE cares about national championship teams in Orono unless Maine is the one wearing the ring. xthumbsupx

What I don't understand is why the biggest rivals can't draw a crowd despite it being November? Shouldn't the biggest rivals draw fans despite the weather?

And if it doesn't make any difference and nobody cares about what the conference mates do, then why not just join the NEC or play an independent schedule where you can reduce your budget and travel. I'm sure UNH will be glad to schedule you in September.

Again, I'm waiting for the more regional conference that you think can realistically be formed.

[aceinthehole]

My perception of reality is that UMass and URI don't want to be in an all sports league with UNH and Maine no matter how much it would save their athletic departments. And Northeastern and Hofstra are all sports members of the CAA; therefore, they can't play football as an affiliate in another conference.

I fully agree with your reality on those points.

I agree with and don't think travel to the South division is really too big of a deal to UNH (its only 1 game per year). But remember adding GSU to the North means a conference flight every other year.

IMO - the #1 reason that the affiliates want to remain in the CAA is because it guarantees them 8 highly competitive conference games for their resume, and only requires them to schedule 3 non conference games per season.

----
In the proposed a 14-team CAA North you have the following teams:
Maine
UNH
UMass
URI
Northeastern
Hofstra
Georgia State

You get 6 divisional games (3 home/3 away), plus 2 from the South (1 home/1 away).

So, the CAA affiliates from the North (Maine, UNH, UMass, and URI) could replace the CAA North full-time members (NU, HU, GSU) with 3 regional full scholarship teams to form a new football conference managed by the AE or A-10.

Northeastern ---> Albany
Hofstra ---> Stony Brook
Georgia State ---> CCSU

Clearly, myself and probably UA and SBU fans are biased, but we would consider this an fairly even swap for the New England affiliates. Yes, NU and HU have better teams right now and they both have had some historical success at the I-AA level, but GSU has yet to field a team. UA, CCSU, and SBU have shown a commitment to playoff-level football and combined with a firm commitment to full scholarships, I think its fair to say they would be very good regional rivals.

With that in place, could this new conference attract 2 more members to provide a balanced 8-game schedule? What teams would make it "worth it" to replace the rotation of CAA South teams?

Fordham
Georgetown
Villanova
Richmond
Duquesne
Monmouth
Holy Cross

[henfan]

Ace, the A-10 isn't about to get back into the FB business and, even if the conference office had interest, there aren't many who would support them administering a FB league. ;)

Without sufficient critical mass (i.e.- at least 6 all-sport members), it's going to be very difficult for any fledgling FB league to lure teams away from a competitively solid & stable league, where they maintain historic rivalries, have other membership ties, have immediate autobid access, etc. Travel issues notwithstanding, a new league has to also provide all of its schools with a competitive advantage.

I'm dangerously veering off topic here, but, IMO, the America East has little chance of landing their own FB league unless they expand their core membership to include at least 2 or 3 other schools with existing FCS FB programs (or, in the unlikely chance that UVt, UMBC or UBing somehow manage FB startups.) Anything short of that results in a very shaky situation, no matter how many affiliates line up behind them.

[Jackman]

My perception of reality is that UMass and URI don't want to be in an all sports league with UNH and Maine no matter how much it would save their athletic departments.

Hey, UNH can replace St. Bonaventure in the A10 any time they want as far as I'm concerned. Unfortunately, that's not how this game works. All the conference alignments in the northeast are screwed, except the Ivies.

[mainejeff]

I don't ignore them at all and I'm very concerned about them. I believe I try to stay very well grounded in reality. My perception of reality is that UMass and URI don't want to be in an all sports league with UNH and Maine no matter how much it would save their athletic departments. And Northeastern and Hofstra are all sports members of the CAA; therefore, they can't play football as an affiliate in another conference. Without at least two of the four as all sports members how do you get a more regional conference that provides Maine the foundation to be a Top 10 program? How do you get a quality conference with reduced travel and budget?

I agree with you on those points.....except the Top 10 program comment. Maine is not going to be a Top 10 program while Cosgrove is around (and who knows how long that will be?)....and I have my doubts that Maine will ever be a consistent Top 25 program no matter what conference they are in. You obviously have bigger aspirations for UNH Football.......and who can blame you? UNH had a lot of success with a couple of very special players.

[mainejeff]

What's wrong with that? Not that I ever said it. FWIW, our football team did pretty darned well academically, one that made that category getting NCAA recognition, and the APR is quite good. And I enjoy my alma mater being associated with like minded schools who value excellence.



What I don't understand is why the biggest rivals can't draw a crowd despite it being November? Shouldn't the biggest rivals draw fans despite the weather?

And if it doesn't make any difference and nobody cares about what the conference mates do, then why not just join the NEC or play an independent schedule where you can reduce your budget and travel. I'm sure UNH will be glad to schedule you in September.

Again, I'm waiting for the more regional conference that you think can realistically be formed.

I'm looking forward to the day that UNH is the "Northern outpost" of the CAA. xpeacex

[DFW HOYA]

Without sufficient critical mass (i.e.- at least 6 all-sport members), it's going to be very difficult for any fledgling FB league to lure teams away from a competitively solid & stable league, where they maintain historic rivalries, have other membership ties, have immediate autobid access, etc. Travel issues notwithstanding, a new league has to also provide all of its schools with a competitive advantage.


What about five all sport members and two others?

[Seawolf97]

I'm looking forward to the day that UNH is the "Northern outpost" of the CAA. xpeacex

I think by 2012 with the moratorium off, Old Dominion and Georgia St up to speed as well as Bryant and Duquesnse we will see major changes in the Northeast. We could even see a full scholarship NEC develop .

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I haven't forgot it. ;)

I would like to see a more regional conference for Maine......not because I want them to deemphasize football, but to save on costs as well as develop stronger conference rivalries. No offense to the Southern half of the CAA.......but most Maine fans don't know the difference between JMU and Towson. Delaware is the only school from the South that may attract a casual fan or 2........but a high national ranking (top 10) is what gets the most attention. There just isn't a lot of interest now in who Maine plays......I think Maine fans are more concerned about the home team recently than who they are playing. By the time Maine plays their true rivals (UNH/UMass/URI)......most fans have already jumped off the bandwagon or sit at home to watch the game.......those 3 are always in November :(.



I don't ignore them at all and I'm very concerned about them. I believe I try to stay very well grounded in reality. My perception of reality is that UMass and URI don't want to be in an all sports league with UNH and Maine no matter how much it would save their athletic departments. And Northeastern and Hofstra are all sports members of the CAA; therefore, they can't play football as an affiliate in another conference. Without at least two of the four as all sports members how do you get a more regional conference that provides Maine the foundation to be a Top 10 program? How do you get a quality conference with reduced travel and budget?


I agree with you on those points.....except the Top 10 program comment. Maine is not going to be a Top 10 program while Cosgrove is around (and who knows how long that will be?)....and I have my doubts that Maine will ever be a consistent Top 25 program no matter what conference they are in. You obviously have bigger aspirations for UNH Football.......and who can blame you? UNH had a lot of success with a couple of very special players.

Your comment in bold was the reason I mentioned the Top 10 comment. I sincerely thought that was your aspiration for Maine football.

You're correct, we do have high aspirations for UNH Football. We've enjoyed the ride these past four years and we want to continue it. Or at least have the playoffs be a very realistic goal each season. Until proven that it can't happen then I think you'll find most of Wildcat Nation fight anything that jeopardizes football.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I didn't want to quote your entire post so I'll only post the final portion.

So, the CAA affiliates from the North (Maine, UNH, UMass, and URI) could replace the CAA North full-time members (NU, HU, GSU) with 3 regional full scholarship teams to form a new football conference managed by the AE or A-10.

Northeastern ---> Albany
Hofstra ---> Stony Brook
Georgia State ---> CCSU

Clearly, myself and probably UA and SBU fans are biased, but we would consider this an fairly even swap for the New England affiliates. Yes, NU and HU have better teams right now and they both have had some historical success at the I-AA level, but GSU has yet to field a team. UA, CCSU, and SBU have shown a commitment to playoff-level football and combined with a firm commitment to full scholarships, I think its fair to say they would be very good regional rivals.

With that in place, could this new conference attract 2 more members to provide a balanced 8-game schedule? What teams would make it "worth it" to replace the rotation of CAA South teams?

Fordham
Georgetown
Villanova
Richmond
Duquesne
Monmouth
Holy Cross

Not sure I can agree with you Ace because unless I missed it, my impression is that CCSU and UA are at least five years away from full scholly. And based on Stony Brook's performance in basketball, I can't make any assumption about them becoming as good a program as Hofstra or Northeastern. But for argument sake, let's say that it isn't that bad a trade.

Flaws I still see are that you're assuming that UMass would be interested in this alignment. I'm not comfortable making that assumption. And as Henfan alluded to, we still don't know who would administer this new group. No matter who, the issue of all sports members playing football is not addressed. Even if CCSU was offered full membership, that would only be five schools. URI could deemphasize to NEC 40 scholly level and UMass could walk to a higher level conference. Unlike Henfan, I'd truly prefer 7-8 all sports members for a level of security to warrant leaving the known world of today.

Now to continue on, the two schools that would rate the highest on the "worth it" scale are also the two least likely to join -- Richmond and Villanova. Both would probably go Patriot as their first option after the CAA IMHO. Nobody else on your list would be "worth it", remember we're already dealing with a poor foundation (all sports schools) and a leap of faith in UA, SBU and CCSU. Besides I doubt that G'town, Fordham or Holy Cross would ever leave the Patriot for this league anyway. (You do realize that if two of them left the Patriot wouldn't be eligible for their AQ any longer.)

Monmouth and Duquesne are both private institutions. Why would UNH be anxious to lose affiliation with like minded public institutions for private schools? Duquesne is in Pittsburgh and even if the travel costs were the same, why would UNH opt for replacing a flight with a like minded public who has been an opponent for years for a private with no history with UNH requiring a similar flight. Yes, Duquesne is in fertile recruiting territory, but aren't they also bringing a tad of baggage with their hoop program? And if they aren't coming as an all sports member, then recall my 7-8 team requirement. Monmouth is also in a prime recruiting area, but again they are a private institution with virtually no history with UNH.

I appreciate that you at least presented a detailed proposal and I can see how it would look good to you from a Central CT perception (you're playing Monmouth and Duquesne). But I just can't see anywhere enough of an upside to want it over today's world. And the need to schedule powerful OOC games would exist to maintain the current strength of schedule.

[mainejeff]

Your comment in bold was the reason I mentioned the Top 10 comment. I sincerely thought that was your aspiration for Maine football.

It used to be, but honestly at this point we're just trying to survive the Cosgrove regime.

[T-Dog]

2012 is going to be very interesting with the CAA and Big East potentially splintering. It'll definitely be a huge shakeup of East Coat football. Plus with the transition moratorium lifted by then, it'll be a game of who acts and reacts.

Personally I can see UD, App, JMU, GaSo (and maybe others, UMass?) wanting to make the jump at that time and making it together would be a wise move and with the Big East potentially falling apart, those 4-6 programs could get a great deal in moving up. That could definitely ease the controversy of a 14-team league.

Then that would create other ripple effects like who would join the SoCon and could the CAA survive if the northern teams decide they want out.

2012 could be the start of something big that will change everything in not just the CAA, but all Division I football.

[roanokeduke]

CAA coaches want 2 automatic bids !
http://www.dnronline.com/sports_details.php?AID=30082&CHID=3

[henfan]

What controversy? Aside from a Patriot League fan complaining about 14 CAA teams, I've yet to read or hear many dissenting words from CAA officials or member schools about the possibility of someday fielding a 14 team FB league. We're still 4 complete seasons away from the league going to 14 (GSU joins in 2012.)

FTR, the Big East's hoops deal with ESPN runs through the 2012/2013 season and the FB deal through the 2013 season.
http://marquette.scout.com/2/562117.html

[danefan]

What controversy? Aside from a Patriot League fan complaining about 14 CAA teams, I've yet to read or hear many dissenting words from CAA officials or member schools about the possibility of someday fielding a 14 team FB league.


Here you go:



"I don't really know what we're trying to accomplish having that many teams," James Madison coach Mickey Matthews said this week. "It puts everyone at a huge disadvantage. Given the present system, we're just hurting ourselves."



"There's been a lot of internal talk about the league splitting and if people want to stay together," Matthews said. "To me, it's obvious if you keep adding teams, you can't keep adding teams till we have a 20-team league. Some tough decisions have to be made."



The CAA could separate north from south, the way it aligns its divisions. That is a configuration that Matthews, a former assistant at Georgia, thinks has some benefits.

"The best leagues are always regional leagues," Matthews said. "That's why the SEC is always good. I think we need to take a look at that. When I was at Georgia, we took very few plane rides."


No message board fodder. Real INTERNAL TALK AMONGST CAA TEAMS

[danefan]

CAA coaches want 2 automatic bids !
http://www.dnronline.com/sports_details.php?AID=30082&CHID=3

This deserves its own thread. I'm going to pop it out front!

[bluehenbillk]

Let's be honest here, even though the CAA only has one official autobid, isn't it safe to say it already has 2?

When is the last time the CAA/A-10 only put one team in? Why stop at 2 anyway the league should have 3-4 in this year.

[aceinthehole]

The real issue is how many at-large bids are the NCAA willing to give one conference.

[93henfan]

Its too early to speculate how the committee will consider the merits of a multiple 8-3 CAA teams.

Delaware plays 12 games this year, and with a brutal road slate, 8-4 is a distinct possibility. It would be very interesting to see how the committee would regard that record.

[MplsBison]

Esp. considering that some teams are only scheduling 11 games (NDSU, for one).


Does an 8-3 trump an 8-4?

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Delaware plays 12 games this year, and with a brutal road slate, 8-4 is a distinct possibility. It would be very interesting to see how the committee would regard that record.

It better get rewarded!! Delaware with an 8-4 trumps any Patriot, MEAC, OVC with an 8-3. Just as an example. I've only looked in detail at Patriot and Ivy OOC schedules and I didn't see any that would really build a resume for an at-large. (The PL OOC is so heavy with Ivy teams that I looked to see if any Ivy OOCs would significantly help the PL's case -- don't think so.) xwhistlex

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Here you go:







No message board fodder. Real INTERNAL TALK AMONGST CAA TEAMS

Yep, real talk, but without many potential solutions. Nobody likes 14, but nobody can come up with a better alternative.

Being from Albany, you should root for the CAA officially getting two AQ's and expansion to 16 teams. Albany would be the first option for Northern expansion IMHO. For example, wouldn't that be better than what Ace proposed?

[danefan]

Yep, real talk, but without many potential solutions. Nobody likes 14, but nobody can come up with a better alternative.

Being from Albany, you should root for the CAA officially getting two AQ's and expansion to 16 teams. Albany would be the first option for Northern expansion IMHO. For example, wouldn't that be better than what Ace proposed?


I am rooting for anything that involves Albany at full scholarship and with a real potential to compete for national championships.

It is a heck of a lot more likely for the CAA to split than it is for them to go to 16 teams or get two autos.

Even if that split is just a "formality" to get another autobid, i.e., CAASouth, CAANorth are two official FCS conferences with a scheduling agreement.

That allows expansion to 8 teams in each division with ODU and GaSt. in the CAASouth and Albany and Stony Brook added to the CAANorth.

All run by CAA management. And both would immediatly be eligible for an AQ.

[henfan]

Danefan, as much as I'm sure you'd like to see affiliates dissatisfied with the CAA to the advantage of Albany, this article is much ado about nothing. If you've followed Mickey Matthews over the years, you'd understand that these comments were just Mickey being Mickey. He often makes off the cuff statements that have little bearing in reality, especially when prompted by a writer fishing for a story where one just doesn't exist. (BTW, Matthews said the very same thing in another article about a month ago and then proceeded to contradict himself by saying he didn't want to any teams to leave the CAA when GSU came in. O-kaaaay.xrotatehx )

I think the opinions of Don Brown & Jeff Bourne are more representative of the league as a whole and most people who understand CAA dynamics. Believe what you want, but I really don't see a story here. When you read reports that several ADs and coaches are dissatisfied with the CAA's future arrangement, then you'll know there's an issue. Until then, I'd caution you about using Matthews as CAA barometer.

The CAA is not likely to ever get a waiver for a second bid from the NCAA, even if they applied for one. But who cares? Despite what Mickey Mouth's brain might tell him, playoff access for the CAA is not going to be an issue so long as multiple at large bids are available. Unless I read something incorrectly, the NCAA will be increasing the number of at large bids in coming years, no?xcoffeex

[danefan]

Danefan, as much as I'm sure you'd like to see affiliates dissatisfied with the CAA to the advantage of Albany, this article is much ado about nothing. If you've followed Mickey Matthews over the years, you'd understand that these comments were just Mickey being Mickey. He often makes off the cuff statements that have little bearing in reality, especially when prompted by a writer fishing for a story where one just doesn't exist. (BTW, Matthews said the very same thing in another article about a month ago and then proceeded to contradict himself by saying he didn't want to any teams to leave the CAA when GSU came in. O-kaaaay.xrotatehx )

I think the opinions of Don Brown & Jeff Bourne are more representative of the league as a whole and most people who understand CAA dynamics. Believe what you want, but I really don't see a story here. When you read reports that several ADs and coaches are dissatisfied with the CAA's future arrangement, then you'll know there's an issue. Until then, I'd caution you about using Matthews as CAA barometer.

The CAA is not likely to ever get a waiver for a second bid from the NCAA, even if they applied for one. But who cares? Despite what Mickey Mouth's brain might tell him, playoff access for the CAA is not going to be an issue so long as multiple at large bids are available. Unless I read something incorrectly, the NCAA will be increasing the number of at large bids in coming years, no?xcoffeex

Matthew's jabber about playoff access wasn't what I took as being important.

What I took was that he confirmed there have been INTERNAL conversations regarding the fact that the league is getting too big. That too me is evidence of at least the thought of change, that a lot of people on here have chalked up to mere message board fodder.

And yes the NCAA will be increasing at-larges by two in 2010.

[henfan]

Dane, of course there had been "a lot of internal talk about the league splitting and if people want to stay together." That's pretty much common knowledge. It was a constant theme prior to the CAA assuming control of the A-10.

Again, since Mickey wasn't specific in when these conversations took place and absolutely no sane CAA rep has publicly demonstrated displeasure with the possibility of the league someday growing to 14, I'd again caution you about putting too much stock in Matthews' rants.

Unless Tom Yeager was lying, he told me himself that the league would not be forcing affiliates out of its FB league when/if ODU and/or other schools like came on board. I know that might not be good news for those who want to see an America East FB league someday (and, maybe, Mickey Mouth), but that's probably a heck of a lot closer to reality than this nonsense article.

What I've chalked up to message board fodder is the notion that there is some prevailing issue, some overwhelming incentive, that will necessarily force the CAA to split when ODU & GSU come on board. You've definitely not heard that rationale from any CAA source, including even Matthews.

[89Hen]

Unless Tom Yeager was lying, he told me himself that the league would not be forcing affiliates out of its FB league when/if ODU and/or other schools like came on board.
You aren't really lying if you change your mind. xsmiley_wix