NEC to Increase Football Scholarships

[Monmouth Fan]

Posted 6/28/2008 12:21 PM EDT on Asbury Park Press
This story will run in the Press in a few days....
By TONY GRAHAM, STAFF WRITER

Beginning in 2009 the Northeast Conference will be adding more football scholarships to the 30 currently allowed each of its programs. NEC Commissioner Brenda Weare said NEC presidents agreed at a June 11 meeting to add two per year over the next five years bringing its total to 40 by 2013.

Kevin Callahan, Monmouth University football coach, said ""it's certainly a possibility'' the NEC could eventually boost that number to the 63 authorized by the NCAA for its Football Championship Subdivision (FCS) schools. ""When you consider the NEC has the automatic qualifier (to the FCS playpffs) in 2010 the last thing you would want to do is qualify for the playoffs and not be representative and not be competetive,'' Callahan said.

""I think movement to 40 is going to get us there even though we wont' be at 40 by 2010. It's kind of getting us closer and I think if the NEC sees all the positive things the playoffs can bring to the institutions within the league it's possible we might move beyond the 40 mark whether it's to 50, or 55, or 63.

""(For 2009) we'll have the two additional new ones and also from what we'll have from players who are exhausting their eligibility after this year,'' Callahan said.

NEC schools also have access to the FCS playoffs in 2008 and 2009 if its regular season champion meets specified criteria.

The NEC first or second place team (if the champion goes to the playoffs) will also participate in the Gridiron Classic vs. the regular season champion of the Pioneer League for the next two seasons.

""Football is an important sport for the NEC,'' Weare said. ""We've made a lot of progress both in competitiveness and post-season opportunities with the Grid Iron Classic and the automatic bid to the NCAA tournament.

""This move to increase scholarships continues to solidify our commitment to football and provide an outstanding
experience for our student-athletes."

""As with any initiative, the league will monitor and evaluate the effects it has on the membership,'' Weare said.

[andy7171]

Great news from a conference on the rise! xthumbsupx

[Cobblestone]

Posted 6/28/2008 12:21 PM EDT on Asbury Park Press
This story will run in the Press in a few days....
By TONY GRAHAM, STAFF WRITER

Beginning in 2009 the Northeast Conference will be adding more football scholarships to the 30 currently allowed each of its programs. NEC Commissioner Brenda Weare said NEC presidents agreed at a June 11 meeting to add two per year over the next five years bringing its total to 40 by 2013.

Kevin Callahan, Monmouth University football coach, said ""it's certainly a possibility'' the NEC could eventually boost that number to the 63 authorized by the NCAA for its Football Championship Subdivision (FCS) schools. ""When you consider the NEC has the automatic qualifier (to the FCS playpffs) in 2010 the last thing you would want to do is qualify for the playoffs and not be representative and not be competetive,'' Callahan said.

""I think movement to 40 is going to get us there even though we wont' be at 40 by 2010. It's kind of getting us closer and I think if the NEC sees all the positive things the playoffs can bring to the institutions within the league it's possible we might move beyond the 40 mark whether it's to 50, or 55, or 63.

""(For 2009) we'll have the two additional new ones and also from what we'll have from players who are exhausting their eligibility after this year,'' Callahan said.

NEC schools also have access to the FCS playoffs in 2008 and 2009 if its regular season champion meets specified criteria.

The NEC first or second place team (if the champion goes to the playoffs) will also participate in the Gridiron Classic vs. the regular season champion of the Pioneer League for the next two seasons.

""Football is an important sport for the NEC,'' Weare said. ""We've made a lot of progress both in competitiveness and post-season opportunities with the Grid Iron Classic and the automatic bid to the NCAA tournament.

""This move to increase scholarships continues to solidify our commitment to football and provide an outstanding
experience for our student-athletes."

""As with any initiative, the league will monitor and evaluate the effects it has on the membership,'' Weare said.

xthumbsupx This is great news for the NEC and for FCS.

See you guys on 8/30.

[TexasTerror]

Don't stop at 40...got to keep moving forward and give your teams an opportunity to count for a counter for FBS opposition...that'd really help your schools out in addition to making them competitive for the playoffs...

[PLLB]

the patriot league auto-bid is in trouble

[andy7171]

the patriot league auto-bid is in trouble
My thoughts too, but not for a couple years.
This might be the straw that breaks the PLs back on scholarships.

[Dane96]

why is the PL auto in trouble? The NEC already gets one (in 2010). what this does, however, is put the scholarship (as ANDY mentions) issue firmly on the table.

Quite frankly...I think when the NEC hits the 40 mark...the top teams in the NEC will have an edge over the top PL teams...specifically the state schools. Better believe if Albany (and CCSU if they continue their path) is still in the leage with 40 rides, we are probably going to have at least 55-56 kids receiving some sort of aid. Heck...you get 10 state kids...split those rides...and bang...you have 20 kids on scholly right there with their families paying a max of 25k-35k for a four year education.

I also think the 5 year phase in was for the following reasons:

1- Money...to get the privates ready to go
2- Coincides with Bryant's second year...gives them ample time to prep and be successfull
3- Will give three years of playoff experience to the NEC. If the teams are getting beaten soundly...expect an immediate increase to 63. If the games are middle of the road...maybe up to 50. If close...up to the 56 counter number so the teams could get an FBS game....which is very impt to both the state and private schools (state schools for funding for stadiums...privates for schollys).

4- We will then know about whatever splits may or may not occur. Remember, it is likely Albany and CCSU wanted 45 rides on the spot...and maybe even 56 in a few years. If these schools leave on a split...cost containment could still exist in the NEC.

THE PL IS DEFINITELY GOING TO CHANGE THEIR SCHOLLY STANCE...IMHO.

[MplsBison]

How are the ADs going to deal with title IX?

[Dane96]

That is the biggest frickin problem. Honestly...Stony Brook is in a HUGE hole (no matter what people tell you) because of the massive increase.
It is one of the reasons Albany chose the slower approach.

That being said, the easiest way to do it in the Northeast- CREW (rowing).

[Go...gate]

the patriot league auto-bid is in trouble

Not sure about that, but our competitiveness will be tested much more than ever.

[DRocksDad]

My thoughts too, but not for a couple years.
This might be the straw that breaks the PLs back on scholarships.

Good news. So which NEC schools are comparable academically to the PL, if any? Time to re-evaluate the shortlist of schools for my 16 year old.

[Dane96]

None of the schools, IMHO, are the same. Just very different than the PL's. We learned this during the process for Albany possibly moving into the PL about 10 years ago...and I personally went through it (baseball).

However, Bryant is a pretty decent biz school...Duqense I presume is similar to Dayton (and you are in medical rich Pittsburgh). I worked with Monmouth and thought it was pretty decent. WAGNER would be the closest to the PL...but it is negligble because on graduation MOST (not all) Wagner kids are going to lose jobs to the PL's, BC's, St. John's, Fordham, and State school (Albany, Bing, SBU, Stony Brook) grads in NY. UCONN as well.

Albany is the most different of all the bunch...even Central. It is your proto-typical massive research school. However, it isnt as big--student size-- (much to our detriment at times) as the schools in our Carnegie Class. We only have 13k undergrads...and about 4k grads.

That being said, last stat I heard was over 81% of students who graduate Albany go on to a graduate degree. Nearly half that number go to Medical, Law, Engineering, or Accounting. The CPA passage rate for Albany grads is one of the highest in the country (first-time).

Of course, I am pimping us a bit because I know my alma mater better than the other schools...but I have worked (on a professional level) with every NEC school (and just about every major school East of the Mississippi River.

As you know...it all comes down to size, what your kid thinks he wants to do, what the coaches are looking for (position), and the feel you get from the coaching staff.

[redflash2]

Let's go SAINT FRANCIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Seawolf97]

Congratulations to the NEC! I know it will be a slow process to get to 40 but it is a start. Looks like Bryant and Duquesne made the right move . That is going to be a tough group -hope te see some wins against the CAA, IVY and Southern Conference coming out of this.

[Husky Alum]

However, Bryant is a pretty decent biz school

The CPA passage rate for Albany grads is one of the highest in the country (first-time).
.

Bryant thinks they're a good business school. They're average at best. I'll take Bentley, Babston, NU, BU, BC, Holy Cross, Providence, UConn, Albany and Binghamton over Bryant.

I wouldn't judge a schools CPA exam pass rate as quality of the education. All it means is the program teaches to the CPA exam. Pace in Pleasantville, NY has one of the highest in the country, and I don't think much of their accountants or their program. They know how to pass the exam and that's it.

By the way, NO ONE sits for the entire CPA exam the first time out, that ended a bunch of years ago, and in NY you never really had to sit for the entire exam the first time.

Only 1/2 of 1% of the people who used to sit for all 4 parts of the exam passed it the first time.

[dbackjon]

Only 1/2 of 1% of the people who used to sit for all 4 parts of the exam passed it the first time.


: patsselfonback :

[Husky Alum]

Nothing beats shameless free self promotion, right jon?

All passing the exam on the first time did for me was get me a small bonus and a pat on the back from folks in the office and a busy season full of overtime!

Are you with a Big Four firm or a national/regional firm?

[andy7171]

Good news. So which NEC schools are comparable academically to the PL, if any? Time to re-evaluate the shortlist of schools for my 16 year old.

I'm with Dane96. I don't think any of the NEC school are comparable academically to the PL schools. My comment was football based only.

[DRocksDad]

I'm with Dane96. I don't think any of the NEC school are comparable academically to the PL schools. My comment was football based only.

Thats what i thought. just verifying.

[dbackjon]

Nothing beats shameless free self promotion, right jon?

All passing the exam on the first time did for me was get me a small bonus and a pat on the back from folks in the office and a busy season full of overtime!

Are you with a Big Four firm or a national/regional firm?

:D That is all it got me as well. Ironically, I have never worked in public accounting or auditing, have spent my entire career with dialysis/nephrology companies

I am controller for the 4th largest nephrology practice in the country (still not huge, comparative to many group practices).

[aceinthehole]

How are the ADs going to deal with title IX?

Dane touched on it before. CCSU and Albany are in much better shape to deal with Title IX issues, by offering more football (and other men's sports) schollys to in-state students and offering more women's schollys to out-of-state students you can close the gap in scholarships expenses.

Connecticut is not football hotbed, but the HS talent has improved over the years, and now that UConn is I-A we are the only public I-AA team recruiting the entire state. Albany has more competition for in-state talent in NY, but has many more recruits available.

For example:
$300,000 - 25 men's in-state (@12k each)
$306,000 - 17 women's out-of-state (@18k each)

Although the school is offering 8 more schollys to male athletes, women's expenses are actually higher. So based on total school enrollment, you can be compliant by spending proportionaly to the school M/F enrollment ratio.

In addition, many private schools are adding women's teams like Rowing or Bowling (its becoming big in the NEC).

[andy7171]

Towson has Field Hockey, Gymnastics, Womens CC, Tennis, Softball, Volleyball, Swimming which do not have male equivalents like Soccer, Lacrosse, Basketball, and Golf. They even out the Football lopsidedness.

[Syntax Error]

15-30-40... reminds me of the "slowly" rule of thumb. And "slowly" always reminds me of the movie Gents Without Cents and the Niagara Falls routine.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/54/GentsWithoutCentsTITLE.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ9lQe2YoBs

[Dane96]

xcoffeex

[danefan]

To be blunt, I'm disappointed.

2 a year is crap until 2013 is crap IMO.

That does nothing for us at Albany. We need $$$$$. We need FBS games. We can't wait until 2014 or 2015 for those games.

[dbackjon]

To be blunt, I'm disappointed.

2 a year is crap until 2013 is crap IMO.

That does nothing for us at Albany. We need $$$$$. We need FBS games. We can't wait until 2014 or 2015 for those games.

I wondered if Albany would find that pace too slow - seems glacial to me.

Compromise, I guess. Stony Brook probably did the right thing, looking back.

[danefan]

I wondered if Albany would find that pace too slow - seems glacial to me.

Compromise, I guess. Stony Brook probably did the right thing, looking back.

I don't think we even get a vote (associate member) but I'm not sure.

I'm not sure about Stony Brook doing the right thing though. its too early to tell. For football they are now ahead of us funding-wise. However, in doing so it appears that they are running the rest of the athletic program into the ground. In 10 years I'm confident we will remain the most dominant athletic program of all the SUNY schools. SBU will be in a world of hurt if the Dems win control of the NYS Senate and Ken Lavalle is no longer able to hord millions of $$$$ for SBU.

[Syntax Error]

Mun tso
I think that is the way to write it. To me it means, to enjoy life carefully, if you walk slow then you're not in a hurry and don't make mistakes. Therefore you are able to appreciate the small things that are important and execute the details.

[aceinthehole]

I don't think we even get a vote (associate member) but I'm not sure.

I'm not sure about Stony Brook doing the right thing though. its too early to tell. For football they are now ahead of us funding-wise. However, in doing so it appears that they are running the rest of the athletic program into the ground. In 10 years I'm confident we will remain the most dominant athletic program of all the SUNY schools. SBU will be in a world of hurt if the Dems win control of the NYS Senate and Ken Lavalle is no longer able to hord millions of $$$$ for SBU.

Albany doesn't vote (either does Duq). Bryant gets a vote in 2012.

While I understand some frustration from UA fans, you aren't goint to solve the stadium problem with a FBS check once a year. You guys are in a great position in the NEC - a perennial favorite, soon an auto-bid to the playoffs, you beat Delaware (in a down year) with less than 5 scholly players on the field!!!

I do agree and want to see NEC teams go to the number of schollys to be an I-A counter (57?), but for now CCSU and UA are doing it right - they are competative and any increase in schollys will help. Both teams are in dire need of capital funding for new stadiums .

Modest improvements are on the way for CCSU, but it nothing great. UA has great plans, they just need some $$$ from the state. IMO - other than their awsome stadium, SBU is not in any better postion than UA or CCSU.

[Seahawks Fan]

I'm good with this. xthumbsupx

[Seawolf97]

I don't think we even get a vote (associate member) but I'm not sure.

I'm not sure about Stony Brook doing the right thing though. its too early to tell. For football they are now ahead of us funding-wise. However, in doing so it appears that they are running the rest of the athletic program into the ground. In 10 years I'm confident we will remain the most dominant athletic program of all the SUNY schools. SBU will be in a world of hurt if the Dems win control of the NYS Senate and Ken Lavalle is no longer able to hord millions of $$$$ for SBU.

Im not sure if SBU Athletics is running into the ground anytime soon. Looking at new signees for the Fall Mens Soccer signed 10, Womens Soccer 8, Womens Volleyball 7 including 2 JC All Americans. We picked up 2 America East Titles this spring- Baseball and Softball. 2 SBU players signed
major league contracts.
Oh and football signed about 25. Add to that with the new incoming class in September SBU total student body will pass the 25,000 mark for the first time ever. Looks ok for nowxcoffeex

[MplsBison]

Seeing how SB is basically NYC's state university, I have to agree.


Seems like SB and Rutgers should be great NY State/NJ State rivals.

[TheValleyRaider]

College sports are waaaaaaaay behind pro sports in the NYC scheme of things

Rutgers is a nice story when they're winning, but that's it

Otherwise, they're solidly behind the Yankees, Mets, Giants, Jets, Knicks, Rangers, Islanders.....

Rutgers/Stony Brook would get less pub than St. John's fielding a winning basketball team again

[Seawolf97]

Seeing how SB is basically NYC's state university, I have to agree.


Seems like SB and Rutgers should be great NY State/NJ State rivals.

That is a possibility in about 10 years. Even the SBU Starbucks survived the corporate axe and will remain on campus!xcoffeex

[Dane96]

Im not sure if SBU Athletics is running into the ground anytime soon. Looking at new signees for the Fall Mens Soccer signed 10, Womens Soccer 8, Womens Volleyball 7 including 2 JC All Americans. We picked up 2 America East Titles this spring- Baseball and Softball. 2 SBU players signed
major league contracts.
Oh and football signed about 25. Add to that with the new incoming class in September SBU total student body will pass the 25,000 mark for the first time ever. Looks ok for nowxcoffeex

He is talking about your nearly 27mm per year athletic budget that has put SBU in a major hole.

That...is a fact, jack.

[Dane96]

Seeing how SB is basically NYC's state university, I have to agree.


Seems like SB and Rutgers should be great NY State/NJ State rivals.

Always piping up about **** you know nothing about...eh?!

NYC couldnt give a rats patooty about SBU.

[MplsBison]

Look it's simple:

NW NY/Buffalo has Buffalo
NE NY/Albany has Albany
SW NY has Binghamton
SE NY/NYC has SB

[Syntax Error]

Always piping up about **** you know nothing about...eh?!"NEC schools also have access to the FCS playoffs in 2008 and 2009 if its regular season champion meets specified criteria."

NEC schools have always had access to the playoffs.

This criteria they speak of is a mix of the SNW poll, the coaches poll and the GPI. Specifically.

[DetroitFlyer]

"NEC schools also have access to the FCS playoffs in 2008 and 2009 if its regular season champion meets specified criteria."

NEC schools have always had access to the playoffs.

This criteria they speak of is a mix of the SNW poll, the coaches poll and the GPI. Specifically.


Absolute, 100% Lip Service. Mark my words, the NEC has ZERO access to the playoffs in 2008 and 2009. This whole "earned access" thing was simply one last desperate attempt by the FCS Old Guard to spank the NEC one more time before completely losing their collective ill fated battle! A NEC or PFL team will not, again, mark my words, will not be voted into the top 16 again. The Ivy League, yes. The Old Guard has nothing to fear from a league that outright refuses to participate in the playoffs! There are many things that disappoint me about how the PFL is run, but I am glad that at least we maintain our willingness to participate in the playoffs should an at large bid ever be extended. At the very least, it continues to shed a bright light on complete BS like this "earned access" pile of you know what!!!!!

[Syntax Error]

Absolute, 100% Lip Service. Mark my words, the NEC has ZERO access to the playoffs in 2008 and 2009. This whole "earned access" thing was simply one last desperate attempt by the FCS Old Guard to spank the NEC one more time before completely losing their collective ill fated battle!Not to go further off-topic but you mean 100% access and ZERO chance to get in the playoffs in 2008 and 2009.

"This whole 'earned access' thing was simply one last desperate attempt by the NEC to spank the NCAA one more time before completely WINNING their collective ill fated battle!"

Fixed it for you. :p

"...the last thing you would want to do is qualify for the playoffs and not be representative and not be competitive,'' [Monmouth head coach] Callahan said.

[DFW HOYA]

Seeing how SB is basically NYC's state university, I have to agree.

SUNY-Stony Brook is not the state's flagship university. Even the SB folks wouldn't claim that.

[UAalum72]

SUNY-Stony Brook is not the state's flagship university. Even the SB folks wouldn't claim that.
Sure they do, whether it's true or not.

"Shirley Strum Kenny, Who Transformed Stony Brook University Into a Flagship Of SUNY (http://commcgi.cc.stonybrook.edu/am2/publish/General_University_News_2/Shirley_Strum_Kenny_Who_Transformed_Stony_Brook.sh tml)..."

[MplsBison]

SUNY-Stony Brook is not the state's flagship university. Even the SB folks wouldn't claim that.

I didn't claim that either.


I said it was NYC's state univeristy. IE, if a NYC student is interested in going to a New York State public school, Stony Brook is the choice.

[Husky Alum]

It is? I doubt it.

A lot of it depends on what a student chooses to study.

From what I know in talking to people/clients/friends in NYC...

If there's a kid in the NYC schools who wants to study government, I'm betting they go to Albany - if they want to study Business, it's likely Binghamton with Albany a close second, and then Buffalo. I think SBU is the better of the four in sciences, if I'm not mistaken.

[DetroitFlyer]

Not to go further off-topic but you mean 100% access and ZERO chance to get in the playoffs in 2008 and 2009.

"This whole 'earned access' thing was simply one last desperate attempt by the NEC to spank the NCAA one more time before completely WINNING their collective ill fated battle!"

Fixed it for you. :p

"...the last thing you would want to do is qualify for the playoffs and not be representative and not be competitive,'' [Monmouth head coach] Callahan said.

Perhaps Coach Callahan should review the score of last season's Dayton at Fordham game....

[Syntax Error]

Sure they do, whether it's true or not.Albany hates Stony Brook so take what they say with a HUGE grain of salt.

[Syntax Error]

Perhaps Coach Callahan should review the score of last season's Dayton at Fordham game....Was that a playoff game? Has an NEC school (leaving the powerful PFL out of the discussion) ever been close to making the playoffs? Oops, off-topic.

I hope the schools in the NEC go full schollie soon.

[DetroitFlyer]

Was that a playoff game? Has an NEC school (leaving the powerful PFL out of the discussion) ever been close to making the playoffs?


As close as the PFL or NEC are going to get until 2010 when the NEC Champion will be there! Coach Callahan was talking about being "competitive". If the OVC, PL, and MEAC are "competitive" in the FCS playoffs, I have little doubt that the score of the Dayton at Fordham game in 2007 is a strong indication that a PFL or even a NEC team could be "competitive" in the same manner as the previously referenced conferences.

[MplsBison]

It is? I doubt it.

A lot of it depends on what a student chooses to study.

From what I know in talking to people/clients/friends in NYC...

If there's a kid in the NYC schools who wants to study government, I'm betting they go to Albany - if they want to study Business, it's likely Binghamton with Albany a close second, and then Buffalo. I think SBU is the better of the four in sciences, if I'm not mistaken.

Yeah I suppose that whole "medical sciences/med school/ teaching hospital" thing is pretty worthless these days to NYC students.


And that whole "Association of American Universities" thing is pretty worthless too.

[Syntax Error]

...the Dayton at Fordham game in 2007 is a strong indication that a PFL or even a NEC team could be "competitive" in the same manner as the previously referenced conferences.Guess we'll never know until then because neither an NEC nor a PFL has been selected. There have been wins here and there, losses mostly to playoff caliber teams, but that old SOS continues.

[danefan]

I didn't claim that either.


I said it was NYC's state univeristy. IE, if a NYC student is interested in going to a New York State public school, Stony Brook is the choice.

I think you've forgotten something. If a NYC kid wants to go to a public school they go to CUNY. Not SUNY.

[danefan]

"NEC schools also have access to the FCS playoffs in 2008 and 2009 if its regular season champion meets specified criteria."

NEC schools have always had access to the playoffs.

This criteria they speak of is a mix of the SNW poll, the coaches poll and the GPI. Specifically.


Is it possible for you to not hijack a thread in an attempt to push your tired agenda?

You quoted Dane96 - who was referring to Mpls's discussion about SBU and NYC - and are talking about NEC access?

You really need to get off the anti-NEC theme. Oh that's right - its not anti NEC - its really just anti anything dealing with Dane96 or myself.xwhistlex

[MplsBison]

I think you've forgotten something. If a NYC kid wants to go to a public school they go to CUNY. Not SUNY.

That's why I specifically said a public state school.


Not some little city school.

[Dane96]

"NEC schools also have access to the FCS playoffs in 2008 and 2009 if its regular season champion meets specified criteria."

NEC schools have always had access to the playoffs.

This criteria they speak of is a mix of the SNW poll, the coaches poll and the GPI. Specifically.


Ummmm..what does your statement have to do with me ripping intro MPLS for not knowing anything about NYC and State schools.

And, MPLS, for the record...I AM NEW YORK CITY BORN AND BRED....I spit Brooklyn; I never ever, ever, considered Stony Brook. NYC kids either stay home and go to CUNY Queens or Brooklyn College (the biggest and best of the bunch), or they head off to Bing, Albany, or Buffalo.

[MplsBison]

NYC kids either stay home and go to CUNY Queens or Brooklyn College (the biggest and best of the bunch), or they head off to Bing, Albany, or Buffalo.

There is no need to lie.

Plenty of NYC kids go to SB every year.

[Dane96]

It is? I doubt it.

A lot of it depends on what a student chooses to study.

From what I know in talking to people/clients/friends in NYC...

If there's a kid in the NYC schools who wants to study government, I'm betting they go to Albany - if they want to study Business, it's likely Binghamton with Albany a close second, and then Buffalo. I think SBU is the better of the four in sciences, if I'm not mistaken.


DING DING....we have a winner! Bottom line, and this is not going to be PC, if you wanted some MEDICAL SCIENCE background you went/will go to Stony Brook...and the non-PC part...if you are ASIAN! It has the biggest ASIAN population of all the SUNY's.

Otherwise...it is UPSTATE you go if you are not headed out-of-state.

[Dane96]

Albany hates Stony Brook so take what they say with a HUGE grain of salt.

Actually, we dont...we hate Binghamton more.

BUT SYNTAX ERROR...he of vast knowldge and "hater" of the NEC and its fans...pipes up again.

Hold on...let me prep myself for your "hater speech."

[Dane96]

Yeah I suppose that whole "medical sciences/med school/ teaching hospital" thing is pretty worthless these days to NYC students.


And that whole "Association of American Universities" thing is pretty worthless too.

Downstate Medical, numnuts, is in BROOKLYN...and is the PREMIER STATE MEDICAL TEACHING INSTITUTION...and has been since the Civil War.

Now, if a kid is going to Med School and it isn't a State school...he has plenty of options in NY.

However, even Stony Brook claims they are the "only medical school in the region"....the REGION OF EASTERN LONG ISLAND THAT IS! Western Long Island (where MOST OF NYC is located-- Queens and Brooklyn)...is Downstate Medical.

[Dane96]

That's why I specifically said a public state school.


Not some little city school.

ARE YOU A ****ING 'TARD? CUNY, founded PRE-CIVIL WAR is the largest URBAN education system in the world, with over 230,000 students and 23 educational centers including 11 Four-Year colleges. And let's not forget College Now (which, I proudly was a student of), a program that offers college courses while in high school to the best and brightest NYC high school students-- the numbers clear 32,000 students.

Heck...it is bigger than probably most State systems. CUNY is funded by both the State and City and is considered a State Educational system and, if memory is correct, have well over 100 NATIONALLY recognized programs.

And forgetting the Rhodes Scholars and Fulbright winners, CUNY has had something like 15 Nobel Prize Winners. That...would top most, if ALL State educational systems.

[Dane96]

There is no need to lie.

Plenty of NYC kids go to SB every year.

Ummmm, no they don't. They are not a primarily NYC student school. Get over your lack of knowledge and move on.

[danefan]

That's why I specifically said a public state school.


Not some little city school.


CUNY has almost as many students (roughly 400,000) as the entire SUNY system. Its far from a small city school.

[andy7171]

You guys do realize who you are getting all worked up over, right?

Thrwoing out numbers like 400K in completely incomprehensible to the fool of NDSU.

[MplsBison]

CUNY has almost as many students (roughly 400,000) as the entire SUNY system. Its far from a small city school.

CUNY is not a school. It's a system of small, liberal arts, private schools that get money from the city so they call themselves public.

[hebmskebm]

as stated earlier in this post, NYC really doesn't give a damn about local college sports aside from st. john's basketball. even rutgers football, with all their recent success, won't get widespread attention unless they were in the hunt for a national championship or something.

[Dane96]

MPLS--

What the **** are you talking about? It is a PUBLIC SCHOOL INSTITUTION. By your logic...every state school is private...but get public money so they can call themselves a state.

As for small, liberal arts schools...Brooklyn College is a massive research institution with 17,000 students. Enrollment at Queens College is at 18,500.

Hmmmmm....NDSU...12,000 students...who's school/system is a small?

[MplsBison]

http://www.carnegiefoundation.org/classifications/sub.asp?key=748&subkey=15278&start=782

Cuny QC - 17k enrollment
Classification: Larger Master's college
AAU status: negative

http://www.carnegiefoundation.org/classifications/sub.asp?key=748&subkey=15266&start=782
Cuny BC - 15k enrollment
Classification: Larger Master's college
AAU status: negative


http://www.carnegiefoundation.org/classifications/sub.asp?key=748&subkey=15436&start=782
SUNY Stony Brook - 21k enrollment
Classification: Research university (very high research activity)
AAU status: positive


Why would you outright lie about BC's status as a research universty?




Plain as day if a NYC kid wants to stay in the metro and go to a large, state sponsored public school to do research (esp. in the medical field).

[Dane96]

http://www.carnegiefoundation.org/classifications/sub.asp?key=748&subkey=15278&start=782

Cuny QC - 17k enrollment
Classification: Larger Master's college
AAU status: negative

http://www.carnegiefoundation.org/classifications/sub.asp?key=748&subkey=15266&start=782
Cuny BC - 15k enrollment
Classification: Larger Master's college
AAU status: negative


http://www.carnegiefoundation.org/classifications/sub.asp?key=748&subkey=15436&start=782
SUNY Stony Brook - 21k enrollment
Classification: Research university (very high research activity)
AAU status: positive


Why would you outright lie about BC's status as a research universty?




Plain as day if a NYC kid wants to stay in the metro and go to a large, state sponsored public school to do research (esp. in the medical field).

Hey...asswipe...my mother's on the Board of Trustees for Brooklyn College. Much like I tore up Syntax with facts about my family...would you like me to do the same to you.

IT IS A RESEARCH SCHOOL! Your classification means jack ****...that is one ranking system...one that I know well. Brooklyn College is Nationally (and internationally) recognized for its research in elementary and secondary edducation, technology, the arts (one of the best theater systems in the country), literature, law, and economics.

DO you realize...you are considered to be one of the top "out-of-touch" posters on this board...by pretty much EVERYONE?

[Dane96]

You are so hung up on AAU status. The funny thing: half the schools on the AAU list dont promote themselves as such to propsective students; they ALMOST ALWAYS promote their specific research and grants...and usually Carnegie Status.

[DFW HOYA]

Schools like Dartmouth, Georgetown, and Notre Dame are Carnegie I research institutions, but are not in the AAU. It's largely reserved now for the very large institutions.

[MplsBison]

IT IS A RESEARCH SCHOOL! Your classification means jack ****...that is one ranking system...

Well if they're a research school the must spend a bunch on research, right?


http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/nsf08300/pdf/tab35.pdf



Little ol' NDSU: ranked 42nd with 103.778 million dollars

Brooklyn? Not in the top 50.



But Brooklyn must be the top CUNY school, right?



CUNY Hunter College, not on your short list: ranked 92nd with 31.308 million dollars.

CUNY The City College, also not on your short list: 101st with 28.953 million dollars.


But Brooklyn College must be coming up, right?



Well, here's the South Dakota school of mines, an NAIA school, ranked 140th with 12.589 million.



OK, there's CUNY Queens College at 176th with 7.432 million.



Ah yes, illustrious Montana Tech, another NAIA, at 190th with 6.372 million.



Ok here we go: CUNY Brooklyn College: 208th.


That's two (2), zero (0) eight(8) ... with a whopping 4.621 million dollars spent.








Get.



The.



*****.




Out of here.

[MplsBison]

I almost forgot:




Bam.

[Go...gate]

xpopcornx

[Dane96]

nm

[danefan]

I'll just ask one question:

How many undergrad students at Stony Brook (or any other AAU school for that matter) have actually heard or care about the school's AAU status?

My guess is somewhere in the 5% range. Its just not on the top of really anyone's list of factors for choosing an education.

And I just want to point out that SBU is not a bad school and I don't want it to come off like that. It is a great school for certain areas, just like Albany is great in certain things.

[Dane96]

THE BOARD WOULDNT LET ME ADD THINGS ON AN EDIT...so disregard post above and go to this:

No reason to get the popcorn. I know the CUNY system...I grew up in the system. MPLS is a flippin circus clown.

The argument wasnt the $$$ spent...but whether or not it was a research institution. Hunter College, where I almost went to High School (anyone from NYC knows the program I speak of) is not as comprehensive as Brooklyn College. City College, where my father graduated from, isnt as comprehensive. Then you have Polytechnic...which if I had to guess has the most research $$$$.

However, I said "massive research center". Well, as I meant...but for the dumb-ass i can inform, Brooklyn College is massive (in student body and library) and is a research center. Do they spend $$$ on reasearch...yes.

What's the problem.

Furthermore, Brooklyn College and Queens College (not the other two you mention) are usually neck and neck for the "TOP" CUNY school. Most consider Queens College to be the Jewel of the system.

Now, for someone who lives so far away and has been repeatedly abused by 99% of this board for A) turf, B) AAU schools, C) knowedge of government, and D) Specific knowledge of NY state and NYC.............please go tend to your farm in La La Land. I hear it is full of turf! The best part of your entire argument with your stupid stats: You just rebutted your own position that CUNY was a bull**** school system that is small liberal arts colleges that get public money to say they are public.

As for CUNY Research...what is posted by you is total amount INTERALLY spent. There are other $$$ systems that allow research to go on at CUNY. Another reason why NYS is ****ed up. Anyway, Brooklyn College is part of the massive photonic research, however the money (BECAUSE OF POLITICS) flows through City College, yet the Semi-Conductor Physics lab is on the Brooklyn College Campus.

WHAT A TOTAL DONKEY!

No offense to the NDSU posters (and others from the great State of N. Dakota) who regularly make sense and bash this dillweed.

[MplsBison]

If this argument were a bar fight, I just went Bas Rutten on your ass and slammed your head into the corner of the wall.


And you're still getting up and talking trash?!



Who gives a ***** if some lab is on Brooklyn college's campus but the money goes through City college?!


None of them spend more than 31 million dollars on research!!!! That's ***** on the side of the road compared to major research universities!!


And Brooklyn college spends less than 10 million a year on research!!!! NDSU spends more than 10 times that!!!!!!!!!!




Not to mention the most credible university classification system in the world ranks Brooklyn as a large master's college. Do they even award doctorates?


Unbelievable.




None of the CUNY schools are research schools. Fact. Proven.



I really could give a ***** if you lived right down in the hood and licked Jay Z's balls.

[Dane96]

If this argument were a bar fight, I just went Bas Rutten on your ass and slammed your head into the corner of the wall.


And you're still getting up and talking trash?!



Who gives a ***** if some lab is on Brooklyn college's campus but the money goes through City college?!


None of them spend more than 31 million dollars on research!!!! That's ***** on the side of the road compared to major research universities!!


And Brooklyn college spends less than 10 million a year on research!!!! NDSU spends more than 10 times that!!!!!!!!!!




Not to mention the most credible university classification system in the world ranks Brooklyn as a large master's college. Do they even award doctorates?


Unbelievable.




None of the CUNY schools are research schools. Fact. Proven.



I really could give a ***** if you lived right down in the hood and licked Jay Z's balls.

Licking Jay Z's balls-- nah...but I used to watch Chris Mullin, Kenny A, and the Beastie Boys drink 40's and play on the A-Court at Manahattan Beach. I digress.....

Ummmm...buddy, again, if you don't know what you are talking about...shhhhhh. I JUST BAITED YOUR ARSE!

Total Research and Grant $$$ spent by CUNY for 2007: 320mm+

Total Research and Grant $$$ spenty by CUNY for 2006: 360mm+

That is 320 and 360 Million for our esteemed village malcontent from North Dakota.

Now, like I tried to explain earlier, the SUNY and CUNY systems are so f'd up that the SCHOOLS get money through one another...and through the Foundations that adminster the funding (this is moreso at CUNY schools than SUNY; for example, Albany's research $$$ flow through The Rockefeller Foundation, CESTM, and the UALBANY Foundation. So, in the end, it looks like Albany spends a pittence (sp?) of what we actually end up spending.

In 2006, Brooklyn College was outright awarded about 17mm (12mm from outside sources and a 5mm annual trust) in funding. The 2007 numbers are not finalized yet. City College and Hunter about 40mm each.

However, most of the funding for both of those schools come from private trust arms that were set up years ago. Additionally, those funds are also in conjunction with the NHHS, which gives the two schools big $$$ (about 60% of total funding) but then CUNY strips the actual funding and spreads it to the other CUNY's (such as the Semi-Conductor Physics Photon lab at Brooklyn College) but credits the two schools (CITY AND HUNTER) with the actual funding so they can continue to receive those amounts in the future.

In short, CUNY has more power to divvy up the funding than the actual campuses. In the end, actual money spent at City and Hunter is not much more (probably 8mm more) than at the other major colleges.

But here is the real important thing: WHO GIVES A ****. Bottom line...every poster disagrees with your blanket statement that Stony Brook is the choice for NYC kids.

We have also shown CUNY is not a chump change lot of private schools masquerading around as public schools.

We have also shown they are major research instutions in both total enrollment, spending, and size.

As for the most credible university classification: It is like a fraternity, the AAU-- they made it up...and then they invite people. As others pointed out, Duke, Georgetown, and Notre Dame are not members.

Oh...and yes, Brooklyn College awards doctoral courses...thought they don't offer doctorates. Again, nothing to do with this conversation.

Is there away we can put you on PPV. We could make SO MUCH money offering a game show that pits you versus a monkey.

[Dane96]

If this argument were a bar fight, I just went Bas Rutten on your ass and slammed your head into the corner of the wall.
And you're still getting up and talking trash?!
Who gives a ***** if some lab is on Brooklyn college's campus but the money goes through City college?!
None of them spend more than 31 million dollars on research!!!! That's ***** on the side of the road compared to major research universities!!
And Brooklyn college spends less than 10 million a year on research!!!! NDSU spends more than 10 times that!!!!!!!!!!

Not to mention the most credible university classification system in the world ranks Brooklyn as a large master's college. Do they even award doctorates?
Unbelievable
None of the CUNY schools are research schools. Fact. Proven.
I really could give a ***** if you lived right down in the hood and licked Jay Z's balls.

Licking Jay Z's balls-- nah...but I used to watch Chris Mullin, Kenny A, and the Beastie Boys drink 40's and play on the A-Court at Manahattan Beach. I digress.....

Ummmm...buddy, again, if you don't know what you are talking about...shhhhhh. I JUST BAITED YOUR ARSE!

Total Research and Grant $$$ spent by CUNY for 2007: 320mm+
Total Research and Grant $$$ spenty by CUNY for 2006: 360mm+

That is 320 and 360 Million for our esteemed village malcontent from North Dakota.

Now, like I tried to explain earlier, the SUNY and CUNY systems are so f'd up that the SCHOOLS get money through one another...and through the Foundations that adminster the funding (this is moreso at CUNY schools than SUNY; for example, Albany's research $$$ flow through The Rockefeller Foundation, CESTM, and the UALBANY Foundation. So, in the end, it looks like Albany spends a pittence (sp?) of what we actually end up spending.

In 2006, Brooklyn College was outright awarded about 17mm (12mm from outside sources and a 5mm annual trust) in funding. The 2007 numbers are not finalized yet. City College and Hunter about 40mm each. However, most of the funding for both of those schools come from private trust arms that were set up years ago. Additionally, those funds are also in conjunction with the NHHS, which gives the two schools big $$$ (about 60% of total funding) but then CUNY strips the actual funding and spreads it to the other CUNY's (such as the Semi-Conductor Physics Photon lab at Brooklyn College) but credits the two schools (CITY AND HUNTER) with the actual funding so they can continue to receive those amounts in the future.

In short, CUNY has more power to divvy up the funding than the actual campuses. In the end, actual money spent at City and Hunter is not much more (probably 8mm more) than at the other major colleges.

But here is the real important thing: WHO GIVES A ****. Bottom line...every poster disagrees with your blanket statement that Stony Brook is the choice for NYC kids. We have also shown CUNY is not a chump change lot of private schools masquerading around as public schools. We have also shown they are major research instutions in both total enrollment, spending, and size.

As for the most credible university classification: It is like a fraternity, the AAU-- they made it up...and then they invite people. As others pointed out, Duke, Georgetown, and Notre Dame are not members. Oh...and yes, Brooklyn College awards doctoral courses...thought they don't offer doctorates. Again, nothing to do with this conversation.

Is there away we can put you on PPV. We could make SO MUCH money offering a game show that pits you versus a monkey.

[Seahawks Fan]

I didn't claim that either.


I said it was NYC's state univeristy. IE, if a NYC student is interested in going to a New York State public school, Stony Brook is the choice.


Since when? xconfusedx

[MplsBison]

L
Total Research and Grant $$$ spent by CUNY for 2007: 320mm+

Total Research and Grant $$$ spenty by CUNY for 2006: 360mm+


And Hunter is the top school in research spending for CUNY at just over 31 million.



In 2006, Brooklyn College was outright awarded about 17mm (12mm from outside sources and a 5mm annual trust) in funding. The 2007 numbers are not finalized yet. City College and Hunter about 40mm each.

And of that, BC spent a little over 4.5 million on research.


Hunter spent just over 31 million and City spent just under 29 million.



I won't allow those facts to become clouded.



I guess the extra is going towards new houses for the college admins?



We have also shown they are major research instutions in both total enrollment, spending, and size.


None of the CUNY schools have a Carnegie classification of even research university (let alone high or very high activity). None of them spend more than 31 million on research. None of them have AAU.



That proves as a fact that none of them are major research schools.



Brooklyn College awards doctoral courses...thought they don't offer doctorates. Again, nothing to do with this conversation.


They don't even award doctorates!

They can't possibly be major research schools.

[Go...gate]

I didn't claim that either.


I said it was NYC's state univeristy. IE, if a NYC student is interested in going to a New York State public school, Stony Brook is the choice.

Source for this claim?

[ngineer]

Posted 6/28/2008 12:21 PM EDT on Asbury Park Press
This story will run in the Press in a few days....
By TONY GRAHAM, STAFF WRITER

Beginning in 2009 the Northeast Conference will be adding more football scholarships to the 30 currently allowed each of its programs. NEC Commissioner Brenda Weare said NEC presidents agreed at a June 11 meeting to add two per year over the next five years bringing its total to 40 by 2013.

Kevin Callahan, Monmouth University football coach, said ""it's certainly a possibility'' the NEC could eventually boost that number to the 63 authorized by the NCAA for its Football Championship Subdivision (FCS) schools. ""When you consider the NEC has the automatic qualifier (to the FCS playpffs) in 2010 the last thing you would want to do is qualify for the playoffs and not be representative and not be competetive,'' Callahan said.

""I think movement to 40 is going to get us there even though we wont' be at 40 by 2010. It's kind of getting us closer and I think if the NEC sees all the positive things the playoffs can bring to the institutions within the league it's possible we might move beyond the 40 mark whether it's to 50, or 55, or 63.

""(For 2009) we'll have the two additional new ones and also from what we'll have from players who are exhausting their eligibility after this year,'' Callahan said.
NEC schools also have access to the FCS playoffs in 2008 and 2009 if its regular season champion meets specified criteria.

The NEC first or second place team (if the champion goes to the playoffs) will also participate in the Gridiron Classic vs. the regular season champion of the Pioneer League for the next two seasons.

""Football is an important sport for the NEC,'' Weare said. ""We've made a lot of progress both in competitiveness and post-season opportunities with the Grid Iron Classic and the automatic bid to the NCAA tournament.

""This move to increase scholarships continues to solidify our commitment to football and provide an outstanding
experience for our student-athletes."

""As with any initiative, the league will monitor and evaluate the effects it has on the membership,'' Weare said.

Interesting comment..."exhausting eligibility", as opposed to graduating.xeyebrowx

[Dane96]

Bison****....You exhauste me.

Though you are wrong...I will say it...you win...you happy?

Hey...anytime you want to go to a Trustee meeting as an outside observer...I can clear it for you. Than...you can come back here with tail between legs.If you haven't learned it yet...I RARELY COME ON WITH MISINFORMATION...RARELY. And if I do...I admit it. Let's just say...I have the right numbers...and your 31m figure is WAY OFF.

[Dane96]

Source for this claim?

He has none. It is a bull**** claim out of thin air. Kinda like his bull**** numbers...not the actual numbers...regarding spending. He doesn't let the fact that most of us posting in the post either live in, or went to high school and had to make a choice, the NYC area. And, when you toss the facts his way...he utilizes (poorly) circular reasoning: "I AM RIGHT...BECAUSE I AM RIGHT."

Here is a hint MPLPUKE: SUNY has been fighting CUNY for city kids since the 90's. In fact, they instituted a minority program just to entice kids to leave the City. Fact: Most NYC kids either stay in CUNY, don't leave their Borough, or don't go to college at all. Hint...I got that from the Monitor and the NY Times.

The definition of circular reasoning was not for you go..Gate...it was for the resident village 'tard.

xlolx xrotatehx xnodx xbawlingx xnonono2x xwhistlex xcoffeex xnonox

[MplsBison]

Bison****....You exhauste me.

Though you are wrong...I will say it...you win...you happy?

Hey...anytime you want to go to a Trustee meeting as an outside observer...I can clear it for you. Than...you can come back here with tail between legs.If you haven't learned it yet...I RARELY COME ON WITH MISINFORMATION...RARELY. And if I do...I admit it. Let's just say...I have the right numbers...and your 31m figure is WAY OFF.


I'll be sure to let all the guys who have been working at the National Science Foundation for 40+ years know that.

[Go...gate]

Interesting comment..."exhausting eligibility", as opposed to graduating.xeyebrowx

Your point is well taken.

[Dane96]

I'll be sure to let all the guys who have been working at the National Science Foundation for 40+ years know that.

Wait...so let me get this genius: If you are not doing Scientific Research under the guidelines of the NSF...you are not a research institution? You can only be a research institution if you are working with NSF?

So...Harvard wasn't a research school way back in the 1800's?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.........


xcoffeex xcoffeex xeyebrowx

[MplsBison]

The NSF compiles data on the research expenditures of every school that has a medical school and every school that doesn't have a medical school, right down to 515th ranked SEMO (yes, that would be the OVC's SE MO State, a "DI" school) at 165 thousand dollars.


It has nothing to do with "working for the NSF", whatever that could possibly mean.

[dbackjon]

Guys - it is pointless to try to reason with MB. Total waste of time. He knows everything, better than everyone.

Let's get this thread back on topic - what does the increased schollies mean for the NEC, the PL, and even the affiliated CAA members who could be looking for a new home in a few years.

[Seawolf97]

Guys - it is pointless to try to reason with MB. Total waste of time. He knows everything, better than everyone.

Let's get this thread back on topic - what does the increased schollies mean for the NEC, the PL, and even the affiliated CAA members who could be looking for a new home in a few years.

Point well taken

[Go...gate]

Guys - it is pointless to try to reason with MB. Total waste of time. He knows everything, better than everyone.

Let's get this thread back on topic - what does the increased schollies mean for the NEC, the PL, and even the affiliated CAA members who could be looking for a new home in a few years.

One thing it means is that, at least as of now, no northeast CAA school will even consider the PL for FB affiliation (I often wondered if Northeastern, Maine, UNH or URI might approach us as we once approached Towson). The increase in scholarships make the NEC a much more attractive alternative from a standpoint of athletic philosophy.

[dbackjon]

One thing it means is that, at least as of now, no northeast CAA school will even consider the PL for FB affiliation (I often wondered if Northeastern, Maine, UNH or URI might approach us as we once approached Towson). The increase in scholarships make the NEC a much more attractive alternative from a standpoint of athletic philosophy.


Very true - the NEC would probably become the prefered alternative if the CAA decides it is too big to keep non-members. This leaves the PL stuck at 7, with only 5 full-conference members

[Go...gate]

Very true - the NEC would probably become the prefered alternative if the CAA decides it is too big to keep non-members. This leaves the PL stuck at 7, with only 5 full-conference members

Army, Navy and American are also "full-conference" members, bringing the total in that category to 8.

I'm less concerned about that, because in the event Fordham went to the CAA for all sports, Holy Cross went their own way (CAA? PFL?), and Army and Navy re-joined the Ivy League schools for all sports save football (in the pre-Ivy League days, Army and Navy were affiliated with the Ivy schools in many sports, including Baseball, Basketball, Swimming, Wrestling and such) the "core four" (Bucknell, Colgate, Lafayette and Lehigh) would hopefully be a good catch for somebody; I guess, in the alternative, we would make the best of it as Independents and retain some agreement to schedule each other, which at least sets three dates on all our schedules every year.

[dbackjon]

Army, Navy and American are also "full-conference" members, bringing the total in that category to 8.

I'm less concerned about that, because in the event Fordham went to the CAA for all sports, Holy Cross went their own way (CAA? PFL?), and Army and Navy re-joined the Ivy League schools for all sports save football (in the pre-Ivy League days, Army and Navy were affiliated with the Ivy schools in many sports, including Baseball, Basketball, Swimming, Wrestling and such) the "core four" (Bucknell, Colgate, Lafayette and Lehigh) would hopefully be a good catch for somebody; I guess, in the alternative, we would make the best of it as Independents and retain some agreement to schedule each other, which at least sets three dates on all our schedules every year.

Yes - but those three don't play football, and you need 6 for the autobid...

[Seawolf97]

The NEC teams should be more attractive opponents now with 40 scholarship teams. This will add to the strength of schedule issue for many teams and could expand NEC schedules.

[dgreco]

Random thought-- does continued scholarship increase in football possibly to FBS counter. Creation of another AQ bid sport in lacrosse etc... bring the NEC out of Low Major to a Mid Major conference in the future?

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

One thing it means is that, at least as of now, no northeast CAA school will even consider the PL for FB affiliation (I often wondered if Northeastern, Maine, UNH or URI might approach us as we once approached Towson). The increase in scholarships make the NEC a much more attractive alternative from a standpoint of athletic philosophy.

Only problem is that the only private in that group is also an all sports member of the CAA. In theory they'd be the least likely to need to approach the PL.

I don't know the exact time frame (it was at least 15 years ago), but I believe UNH did approach the Patriot. And much like when Albany approached the Patriot, both public institutions were rejected. I was given the impression that the PL felt that UNH would have a competitive advantage because their out of state tuition (virtually all the scholarship football players at UNH are out of staters) would be less than the typical PL tuition. I know UNH was looking at affiliation with institutions that had higher academic standards (for athletes) as I believe Albany was as well. That didn't seem to matter to the PL back then. The Patriot had an opportunity to take a private and grow them to their standards (Marist), but passed. Why would they all of a sudden take a public?

From rumblings heard out of Orono and from Cobblestone, I think the NEC might have potential candidates in Maine and URI, but not UNH or Northeastern unless there are some radical changes. I've never heard any such rumblings out of Durham nor from any poster on AGS. We like the CAA.

[Go...gate]

Only problem is that the only private in that group is also an all sports member of the CAA. In theory they'd be the least likely to need to approach the PL.

I don't know the exact time frame (it was at least 15 years ago), but I believe UNH did approach the Patriot. And much like when Albany approached the Patriot, both public institutions were rejected. I was given the impression that the PL felt that UNH would have a competitive advantage because their out of state tuition (virtually all the scholarship football players at UNH are out of staters) would be less than the typical PL tuition. I know UNH was looking at affiliation with institutions that had higher academic standards (for athletes) as I believe Albany was as well. That didn't seem to matter to the PL back then. The Patriot had an opportunity to take a private and grow them to their standards (Marist), but passed. Why would they all of a sudden take a public?

From rumblings heard out of Orono and from Cobblestone, I think the NEC might have potential candidates in Maine and URI, but not UNH or Northeastern unless there are some radical changes. I've never heard any such rumblings out of Durham nor from any poster on AGS. We like the CAA.

I believe that is correct. Also, when Colgate football was nearing its nadir in 1994-95, I recall then-Colgate President Grabois (another prexy who had no love for football) discussing, in the alumni magazine, the possibility of a new football-only conference which would incorporate the Patriots and New England area public schools into a new conference with similar policies.

[hebmskebm]

The more I look at the announcement, the more the optimist in me wants to think as this as the best possible scenario for the league right now from a realistic, practical standpoint. I think it's important to acknowledge that the bottom schools of the NEC would probably still be playing non-scholly ball if they werent goaded by the bigger schools. But the fact that they are still in the league, and are slowly beginning to dole out scholies tells me that they are willing to play ball, that they're legit on board with all of this. Its going to take time to build the infastructure needed to be legit D1 football; SFPA, SHU, RMU and Wagner can not get where they need to be overnight. But it seems that they do want to get there, eventually. If you really think about it, its as if a whole new league is being formed out of whole cloth.