Current and future Conference Changes?

[mizzoufan1]

Ok, let me see if I have this correct...

Big Sky: EWU, Idaho St., Mont., Mont. St., NAU, N. Colo., Port. St., Sac St., Web. St.

Big South: Char. South, CCU, G-W, Liberty, Presbyterian, Stony Brook, VMI

CAA: Georgia St. (2010)
North: Hofstra, Maine, UMass, UNH, NE, URI
South: Del., JMU, ODU (2009), Richmond, Towson, Villa., W&M

Great West: Cal-Davis, Cal Poly, UND, USD, SUU

Independents: Bryant, Iona, NCCU, Sav. St.

Ivy: Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard, Penn., Princeton, Yale

MEAC: B-CU, Del. St., FL A&M, Hampton, Howard, Morgan St., Norfolk St., NC A&T, SC St., WSSU (2009)

Missouri Valley: Ill. St., Ind. St., MO St., NDSU, UNI, SDSU, SIU-C, West. Ill., YSU

Northeast: Albany, CCSU, Duquesne, Monmouth (NJ), Robert Morris, Sacred Heart, St. Francis (PA), Wagner

Ohio Valley: Austin Peay, E. Ill., E. KY, Jax St., Murray St., SEMO, TN St., TN Tech, TN-Martin

Patriot: Buckenll, Colgate, Fordham, GT, HC, Laf., Lehigh

Pioneer: Butler, Campbell, Davidson, Dayton, Drake, Jacksonville, Marist (from Ind. 2009), Morehead St., San Diego, Valpo

Southern: App St., Chatt., Elon, Furman, GA South., Samford, The Citadel, W. Car., Wofford

Southalnd: C. Ark., McNeese St., Nicholls St., NW St., SHSU, SE LA, SFA, TX St.

SWAC:
Eastern: AL A&M, AL St., Alcorn St., Jackson St., MVSU
Wesern: AR-PB, Grambling, Prairie View A&M, Southern, TX Southern

[jcf5445]

You forgot Lamar who will start football in 2010, Southland by 2011. Also, South Alabama will spend 2 or 3 years as an independent starting in 2009. And for what it's worth, both ODU and Georgia State will spend a couple years as independents before becoming full CAA members, and Bryant will join the NEC in a couple of years, not sure about an official date.

There are many other rumors about startups and membership changes, but that should be everything that's official at this time.

[Seawolf97]

Looks good

[jaxstatealum]

Good job!

[mizzoufan1]

Ok, let me see if I have this correct...

Big Sky: EWU, Idaho St., Mont., Mont. St., NAU, N. Colo., Port. St., Sac St., Web. St.

Big South: Char. South, CCU, G-W, Liberty, Presbyterian, Stony Brook, VMI

CAA: Georgia St. (2010)
North: Hofstra, Maine, UMass, UNH, NE, URI
South: Del., JMU, ODU (2009), Richmond, Towson, Villa., W&M

Great West: Cal-Davis, Cal Poly, UND, USD, SUU

Independents: Bryant, Iona, NCCU, Sav. St.

Ivy: Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard, Penn., Princeton, Yale

MEAC: B-CU, Del. St., FL A&M, Hampton, Howard, Morgan St., Norfolk St., NC A&T, SC St., WSSU (2009)

Missouri Valley: Ill. St., Ind. St., MO St., NDSU, UNI, SDSU, SIU-C, West. Ill., YSU

Northeast: Albany, CCSU, Duquesne, Monmouth (NJ), Robert Morris, Sacred Heart, St. Francis (PA), Wagner

Ohio Valley: Austin Peay, E. Ill., E. KY, Jax St., Murray St., SEMO, TN St., TN Tech, TN-Martin

Patriot: Buckenll, Colgate, Fordham, GT, HC, Laf., Lehigh

Pioneer: Butler, Campbell, Davidson, Dayton, Drake, Jacksonville, Marist (from Ind. 2009), Morehead St., San Diego, Valpo

Southern: App St., Chatt., Elon, Furman, GA South., Samford, The Citadel, W. Car., Wofford

Southalnd: C. Ark., McNeese St., Nicholls St., NW St., SHSU, SE LA, SFA, TX St.

SWAC:
Eastern: AL A&M, AL St., Alcorn St., Jackson St., MVSU
Wesern: AR-PB, Grambling, Prairie View A&M, Southern, TX Southern

SO basically add Lamar (2011 Entry) to the Southland, S. AL to the Independents.

[TexasTerror]

Texas St-San Marcos could be leaving the SLC after the 2009 or 2010 season, pending SLC by-laws and if they are actually followed considering the school's official announcement of a move to FBS.

Due to the perceived notion that the SLC will ignore it's own by-laws and that the school was included in conference schedules for 2011 and 2012, it is assumed they will stay in the conference.

[mizzoufan1]

Texas St-San Marcos could be leaving the SLC after the 2009 or 2010 season, pending SLC by-laws and if they are actually followed considering the school's official announcement of a move to FBS.

Due to the perceived notion that the SLC will ignore it's own by-laws and that the school was included in conference schedules for 2011 and 2012, it is assumed they will stay in the conference.

This is the first I have heard of anybody moving to FBS from FCS. I thought the moratorium on Division movement applied to the football divisions as well...

[IndianaAppMan]

Looks pretty accurate. I can't help but wonder if the CAA will really stay intact with over 12 members, considering other huge conferences over the years (MAC, super-WAC, etc.) never seemed to stay together long. Still, this list seems to fit the official count accurately.

[TexasTerror]

This is the first I have heard of anybody moving to FBS from FCS. I thought the moratorium on Division movement applied to the football divisions as well...

The school has announced it's intentions on moving. Obviously, the moratorium comes into play with their move, but they have a whole big site regarding the "Drive to FBS", yadda yadda yadda...

http://www.athletics.txstate.edu/thedrive

I posted elsewhere the specific SLC by-laws regarding a school forfeiting their membership if they announced intentions to leave the conference. The San Marcos based institution as done more than that. The SLC won't stick to the by-laws as they have already shown...so it's a subject that needs no further discussion at this time.

[Col Hogan]

Looks pretty accurate. I can't help but wonder if the CAA will really stay intact with over 12 members, considering other huge conferences over the years (MAC, super-WAC, etc.) never seemed to stay together long. Still, this list seems to fit the official count accurately.

IMHO, the CAA will not stay together much longer, as it is currently constructed...

Georgia State and ODU are full CAA members and their entry into football will put pressure on the football-only members to move on...

UMass, URI, UNH, and Maine are associate members...I think the pressure is already building to do something...I'm not connected enough to know what will happen...but I don't see the CAA surviving past 2012 with all it's current football members...

[TheBisonator]

The school has announced it's intentions on moving. Obviously, the moratorium comes into play with their move, but they have a whole big site regarding the "Drive to FBS", yadda yadda yadda...

http://www.athletics.txstate.edu/thedrive

I posted elsewhere the specific SLC by-laws regarding a school forfeiting their membership if they announced intentions to leave the conference. The San Marcos based institution as done more than that. The SLC won't stick to the by-laws as they have already shown...so it's a subject that needs no further discussion at this time.

They don't even have 300 season tickets sold and they want to move to FBS??

Anyone know why Texas State only had 16 season ticket holders a few months ago?? Was it a team policy to only sell singles or something??

[DSUrocks07]

Ok, let me see if I have this correct...

Big Sky: EWU, Idaho St., Mont., Mont. St., NAU, N. Colo., Port. St., Sac St., Web. St.

Big South: Char. South, CCU, G-W, Liberty, Presbyterian, Stony Brook, VMI

CAA: Georgia St. (2010)
North: Hofstra, Maine, UMass, UNH, NE, URI
South: Del., JMU, ODU (2009), Richmond, Towson, Villa., W&M

Great West: Cal-Davis, Cal Poly, UND, USD, SUU

Independents: Bryant, Iona, NCCU, Sav. St.

Ivy: Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard, Penn., Princeton, Yale

MEAC: B-CU, Del. St., FL A&M, Hampton, Howard, Morgan St., Norfolk St., NC A&T, SC St., WSSU (2009)

Missouri Valley: Ill. St., Ind. St., MO St., NDSU, UNI, SDSU, SIU-C, West. Ill., YSU

Northeast: Albany, CCSU, Duquesne, Monmouth (NJ), Robert Morris, Sacred Heart, St. Francis (PA), Wagner

Ohio Valley: Austin Peay, E. Ill., E. KY, Jax St., Murray St., SEMO, TN St., TN Tech, TN-Martin

Patriot: Buckenll, Colgate, Fordham, GT, HC, Laf., Lehigh

Pioneer: Butler, Campbell, Davidson, Dayton, Drake, Jacksonville, Marist (from Ind. 2009), Morehead St., San Diego, Valpo

Southern: App St., Chatt., Elon, Furman, GA South., Samford, The Citadel, W. Car., Wofford

Southalnd: C. Ark., McNeese St., Nicholls St., NW St., SHSU, SE LA, SFA, TX St.

SWAC:
Eastern: AL A&M, AL St., Alcorn St., Jackson St., MVSU
Wesern: AR-PB, Grambling, Prairie View A&M, Southern, TX Southern

10 teams...potential division split

North: Del St., Hampton, Howard, Morgan St., Norfolk St.
South: FAMU, B-CU, SC St., NC A&T, WSSU

7 conference games xthumbsupx
4 OOC games xthumbsupx xthumbsupx

just throwing it out there

[IndianaAppMan]

10 teams...potential division split

North: Del St., Hampton, Howard, Morgan St., Norfolk St.
South: FAMU, B-CU, SC St., NC A&T, WSSU

7 conference games xthumbsupx
4 OOC games xthumbsupx xthumbsupx

just throwing it out there

What about North Carolina Central or Savannah State? Does anybody know whether they have aspirations for the MEAC?

[TexasTerror]

What about North Carolina Central or Savannah State? Does anybody know whether they have aspirations for the MEAC?

NCCU and SavSt both want in the MEAC. SavSt has way too many issues with the NCAA that are going to hold them back from admission to any conference. NCCU, you'd expect would have to get into the MEAC sometime soon...


They don't even have 300 season tickets sold and they want to move to FBS??

Anyone know why Texas State only had 16 season ticket holders a few months ago?? Was it a team policy to only sell singles or something??

Your guess is as good as mine. Their fans have been making up excuses for it (the marketplace in Austin/San Antonio does not get a jump on things like this, etc, etc). Apparently, renewals are due June 30. If the numbers are not much higher by July 5, we could start talking about it being a problem.

[slycat]

NCCU and SavSt both want in the MEAC. SavSt has way too many issues with the NCAA that are going to hold them back from admission to any conference. NCCU, you'd expect would have to get into the MEAC sometime soon...



Your guess is as good as mine. Their fans have been making up excuses for it (the marketplace in Austin/San Antonio does not get a jump on things like this, etc, etc). Apparently, renewals are due June 30. If the numbers are not much higher by July 5, we could start talking about it being a problem.

believe me im confused and i went to the school.

[brownbear]

When does Bryant join the NEC?

[McTailGator]

Texas St-San Marcos could be leaving the SLC after the 2009 or 2010 season, pending SLC by-laws and if they are actually followed considering the school's official announcement of a move to FBS.

Due to the perceived notion that the SLC will ignore it's own by-laws and that the school was included in conference schedules for 2011 and 2012, it is assumed they will stay in the conference.


Jason,

I, like many others around the SLC, think TxSU's kids are all in need of an @$$ whipping xasswhipx, and need to be put in time out.

But come on man, this is getting a bit old.



The bylaw's actually state that if a school does not give a 2 year advanced notice before they leave, they must pay the conference something like $500,000. They have not given notice, so unless they fork over the 500K I doubt they will leave before the 2010 season.

However, $500K is not hard to come by with 27,000 students and a guarantee or two.

In addition, the NCAA still has a moratorium of moving between Sub Divisions, so they still don't know if the NCAA will even allow them to move over to FBS. The NCAA might set some things in place that may make it impossible for them to switch Sub divisions in the short term anyway. We still don't know.

what if, they go back to the original 17,000 average over a 2 year period, or a 30,000 seat stadium requirement, which they used to do prior to the 2001 season? Only this time, make it ACTUAL attendance in stead of simply tickets sold.

Something tells me that the NCAA is not going to simply stay with the same old minimum standards for FBS. Not much point in having a moratorium on new entries unless you plan on either kicking people out, or making it harder to join. And I don't think they have the balls to kick any schools out.

Texas State can not meet either of those old requirements before they want to join FBS. There are only about 6 FCS teams that can do that now. And 3 of those 6 (SWAC schools) have no interest.

Just let it go man,

I certainly won't miss them. We do have a couple of friends there that we tailgate with and I wish them the best of luck (one of them would rather not leave the SLC), they are good people. But all in all, their students are their problem.

Besides, I'm thinking that TAM-CC will enter the SLC about the time TxSu leaves for doomdumb. Until them, let's just enjoy having another team to beat every year. Someone has to be on the bottom and they have done such a good job of playing for last year after year.

[dgreco]

When does Bryant join the NEC?

According to the Projo, ESPN, Troops, and a few other things next year they are in the conference and not eligible for conference championships or postseason play for another 3 years after that, ie 2012.

[McTailGator]

believe me im confused and i went to the school.


WOW!

You mean to tell me that you GOAL of 2,500 season tickets is 5,500 tickets LESS than McNeese's 8,000 season ticket goal. And we have no plans to go any where.

You are currently 5,200 tickets below where McNeese is now.

We will probably sell 275 season tickets on the Saturday before our first home game against D-II Delta St. and we are pretty certain to meet our goal because McNeese fans don't really start buying their season tickets until mid July are early August.

It won't surprise me if we end up with around 8500 season tickets. Especially if we beat UNC in week one. And McNeese's total enrollment is only around 8,000 students.

[slycat]

WOW!

You mean to tell me that you GOAL of 2,500 season tickets is 5,500 tickets LESS than McNeese's 8,000 season ticket goal. And we have no plans to go any where.

You are currently 5,200 tickets below where McNeese is now.

We will probably sell 275 season tickets on the Saturday before our first home game against D-II Delta St. and we are pretty certain to meet our goal because McNeese fans don't really start buying their season tickets until mid July are early August.

It won't surprise me if we end up with around 8500 season tickets. Especially if we beat UNC in week one. And McNeese's total enrollment is only around 8,000 students.

where do you get these numbers?

doesnt surprise me that you sell more season tickets. yall have a strong winning tradition. texas st thinks their solution is to move up and play schools people have heard of to sell tickets. my guess is that it will sell more tickets but not many more. i would buy season tickets if i lived in san antonio or austin.

i would like to see the team stay in the slc to save money but i would like to see them move up to play bigger schools. but the way the administration is poor at putting things together i expect a lot of disappointment in the move up so i kinda want to stay now.

[McTailGator]

where do you get these numbers?.

From the TxSU website: http://www.athletics.txstate.edu/thedrive/home.htm

Ticket Goals

Starting with the 2008 football season Texas State must begin to show increases in tickets sales and attendance to meet NCAA requirements for FBS. As we Drive towards meeting our ticket sales and attendance goals, keep updated on our progress. Here are the football ticket goals for the season and our current seats sold.

Ticket Goal: 2,500
Total seats sold: 274
Updated: 6.18.2008


http://www.athletics.txstate.edu/thedrive/Images/ticketgasgauge.jpghttp://grfx.cstv.com/schools/mcne/graphics/auto/SeasonTickets620.gif

TxSU's Goal vs McNeese's Goal...


texas st thinks their solution is to move up and play schools people have heard of to sell tickets.

And THAT is where TxSU is making their single biggest mistake. And it is the SAME mistake made by ever team that has moved from I-AA to I-A.

Other than Troy, Marshall, and Boise St that is...

Why those schools and no one else?

BECAUSE LIKE McNEESE, THE FANS OF THOSE SCHOOLS BUY TICKETS AND GO TO THE GAMES TO SEE THEIR FOOTBALL TEAM. NOT THEIR OPPONENTS.

Does anyone really believe that McNeese fans ever heard of West Virginia Tech, or The University of South Virginia? Heck no.

Our fans go to see THEIR Cowboys play. That is also the reason why we travel better than all the other SLC schools COMBINED. We can not stand the thought of missing a game. It is unbearable to us.

Hell, the year I lived in Chicago, I only missed 2 McNeese games (both in LC) and it liked to kill me. I did everything in my power to get my company to transfer me back down to Houston. I have already booked my trips to Chapel Hill and South Dakota. I simply refuse to miss a game. Any where.



i expect a lot of disappointment in the move up so i kinda want to stay now.


Sly, I have seen so many teams come and go in the SLC. Only Troy and to a lesser extent LaTech has had any success. And LaTech is backing up now. They may not recover.

But, Troy and Tech had HUGE fan followings. As well as alumni and sponsors who fork it over. BIG TIME. Those folks also buy a lot of tickets.

You guys don't have any of that. You have more students. But they get in for free, and only about 5 to 10% of them even show up. The worse thing any athletic program could do is rely on it's student population for anything. McNeese will sell more season tickets this year than we have students on campus.

You guy's just had a Million Dollar donation and it was a big deal (as it should be). McNeese had 2 just this year, and football season doesn't even start for another 2 months or so.

We have about a dozen or more booster clubs and an athletic foundation that give or raise close to a Million every year or two.

People freak out when they find out our head coach's salary is among the lowest in the SLC, but what they fail to realize is he makes much more from his radio, and TV, shows, and all coaches are able to substantially supplement their salaries from the couple of camps they produce.

Plus, they receive 2 or 3 free cars each year from every Lake Area car dealer. The booster clubs pay for their insurance and gas as well.

I have also heard that home loan interest rates and closing costs are un beatable for McNeese coaches as well. All that stuff is non taxable so it adds up and counts for a lot.

[slycat]

From the TxSU website:

Ticket Goals

Starting with the 2008 football season Texas State must begin to show increases in tickets sales and attendance to meet NCAA requirements for FBS. As we Drive towards meeting our ticket sales and attendance goals, keep updated on our progress. Here are the football ticket goals for the season and our current seats sold.

Ticket Goal: 2,500
Total seats sold: 274
Updated: 6.18.2008


http://www.athletics.txstate.edu/thedrive/Images/ticketgasgauge.jpg



And THAT is where TxSU is making their single biggest mistake. And it is the SAME mistake made by ever team that has moved from I-AA to I-A.

Other than Troy, Marshall, and Boise St that is...

Why those schools and no one else?

BECAUSE LIKE McNEESE, THE FANS OF THOSE SCHOOLS BUY TICKETS AND GO TO THE GAMES TO SEE THEIR FOOTBALL TEAM. NOT THEIR OPPONENTS.

Does anyone really believe that McNeese fans ever heard of West Virginia Tech, or The University of South Virginia? Heck no.

Our fans go to see THEIR Cowboys play. That is also the reason why we travel better than all the other SLC schools COMBINED. We can not stand the thought of missing a game. It is unbearable to us.

Hell, the year I lived in Chicago, I only missed 2 McNeese games (both in LC) and it liked to kill me. I did everything in my power to get my company to transfer me back down to Houston. I have already booked my trips to Chapel Hill and South Dakota. I simply refuse to miss a game. Any where.





Sly, I have seen so many teams come and go in the SLC. Only Troy and to a lesser extent LaTech has had any success. And LaTech is backing up now. They may not recover.

But, Troy and Tech had HUGE fan followings. As well as alumni and sponsors who fork it over. BIG TIME. Those folks also buy a lot of tickets.

You guys don't have any of that. You have more students. But they get in for free, and only about 5 to 10% of them even show up. The worse thing any athletic program could do is rely on it's student population for anything. McNeese will sell more season tickets this year than we have students on campus.

You guy's just had a Million Dollar donation and it was a big deal (as it should be). McNeese had 2 just this year, and football season doesn't even start for another 2 months or so.

We have about a dozen or more booster clubs and an athletic foundation that give or raise close to a Million every year or two.

People freak out when they find out our head coach's salary is among the lowest in the SLC, but what they fail to realize is he makes much more from his radio, and TV, shows, and all coaches are able to substantially supplement their salaries from the couple of camps they produce.

Plus, they receive 2 or 3 free cars each year from every Lake Area car dealer. The booster clubs pay for their insurance and gas as well.

I have also heard that home loan interest rates and closing costs are un beatable for McNeese coaches as well. All that stuff is non taxable so it adds up and counts for a lot.

this year i plan on at least one home game, the game at shsu, the game in lake charles or smu, and the northern colordo game since ill be visiting relatives in denver. i try to make games. many do not. i still may buy season tickets just to help out.

[MaximumBobcat]

You've stated your opinion about this many times MCTailGator, why do you keep bitching?

[slycat]

and i threw up a little when i saw that chart

[McTailGator]

You've stated your opinion about this many times MCTailGator, why do you keep bitching?


Who is bitching.


I am having a DISCUSSION with a KNOWLEDGEABLE BobCat fan of which there are few.


20 years from now, you will remember that you heard all this before, you will not remember where...

But you will remember that THAT GUY WAS RIGHT...


And you will look back and think about how the best season in BobCat history ended on the knee of your quarterback in a down McNeese year, which allowed you to even advance THAT far.





And think about what I said about Boise, Marshal, and Troy.

They had something TxSU has NEVER had.

SUPPORT from fans who go to the games to see THEIR teams despite who they will play.

EVERY TEAM THAT HAS ATTEMPTED A MOVE OVER TO FBS OR I-AA WITHOUT THAT HAS FAILED AND CONTINUES TO FAIL.


BUT....

Don't let the door hit you in the @$$ on the way out.

[McTailGator]

and i threw up a little when i saw that chart

I guess I never realized just how bad it was.



We we will sale 8K, and we are not ready for a move to FBS. Yes we could play, compete, and even win the SBC much as we do the SLC now.

BUT, what would be the point of being the best team in the crappest conference?


And CUSA isn't all that much better off when you look at it.

The worst BCS conference is the ACC, and it isn't all that in football.

[MaximumBobcat]

Who is bitching.


I am having a DISCUSSION with a KNOWLEDGEABLE BobCat fan of which there are few.


20 years from now, you will remember that you heard all this before, you will not remember where...

But you will remember that THAT GUY WAS RIGHT...

You're prediction is worth nothing. no one can tell the future. However, you may be right, in 10 years we may be in some conference doing nothing or on the other hand you may be wrong, we might establish a good program in a good FBS conference. one great year in the FBS can do 10X more good things for a university than back to back to back FCS national championships. Why not give it a shot?

[McTailGator]

Why not give it a shot?



TAKE A LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF EVERY SCHOOL OTHER THAN TROY, MARSHAL, BOISE STATE, AND EVEN SOUTH FLORIDA (BECAUSE THEY HAD GREAT SUPPORT AS A I-AA)...

THEN ASK YOURSELF.

CAN WE BEAT THE ODDS, DESPITE OUR COMPLETE LACK OF SUPPORT?

THEN THINK...


WILL THOSE CHILDREN WHO DEMANDED THIS MOVE IN THE WRONG DIRECTION COME BACK TO THIS SCHOOL 10 YEARS FROM NOW, BUY SEASON TICKETS, DONATE THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TOWARD ATHLETICS, AND FOLLOW OUR TEAM ON THE ROAD AND AT HOME EVEN IF WE ONLY WIN 10 GAMES IN 1O YEARS?

WILL THEY?

[slycat]

You're prediction is worth nothing. no one can tell the future. However, you may be right, in 10 years we may be in some conference doing nothing or on the other hand you may be wrong, we might establish a good program in a good FBS conference. one great year in the FBS can do 10X more good things for a university than back to back to back FCS national championships. Why not give it a shot?

i agree with many reasons to move up that you have stated. my concern is huge financial losses.

quick question. say we do move up and after 5 years we are forced back down because of poor attendance or some other reason, would the slc take us back? if not where would we go?

[MaximumBobcat]

TAKE A LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF EVERY SCHOOL OTHER THAN TROY, MARSHAL, BOISE STATE, AND EVEN SOUTH FLORIDA (BECAUSE THEY HAD GREAT SUPPORT AS A I-AA)...

THEN ASK YOURSELF.

CAN WE BEAT THE ODDS, DESPITE OUR COMPLETE LACK OF SUPPORT?

THEN THINK...


WILL THOSE CHILDREN WHO DEMANDED THIS MOVE IN THE WRONG DIRECTION COME BACK TO THIS SCHOOL 10 YEARS FROM NOW, BUT SEASON TICKETS, DONATE THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TOWARD ATHLETICS, AND FOLLOW OUR TEAM ON THE ROAD AND AT HOME EVEN IF WE ONLY WIN 10 GAMES IN 1O YEARS?

WILL THEY?

I guess I'm just looking at the current status of the overall McNeese athletic department, the overall academics and university in general, and their place in the world of college football and I start to think that this is what being the best in SLC football has gotten them...?

I guess I just want more than frequent (albeit lately short) trips to the playoffs for the chance to win some "DII" (in the eyes of the general public) national championship.

flame away...

[MaximumBobcat]

i agree with many reasons to move up that you have stated. my concern is huge financial losses.

quick question. say we do move up and after 5 years we are forced back down because of poor attendance or some other reason, would the slc take us back? if not where would we go?

the slc might take us back, depending on if any spots are open, or if theyre looking to expand another eastern team w/ fb also.

we could join the great West also, although it would be expensive travel, I think UTPA is about to do it.

[McTailGator]

I guess I'm just looking at the current status of the overall McNeese athletic department, the overall academics and university in general, and their place in the world of college football and I start to think that this is what being the best in SLC football has gotten them...?

I guess I just want more than frequent (albeit lately short) trips to the playoffs for the chance to win some "DII" (in the eyes of the general public) national championship.

flame away...


I love it how you feel the need to have to venture away from football to try an get a foot hold on a discussion you can win. Even though you can't.

1st,

Take a look at the win vs loss record of all of McNeese's athletic programs vs TxSU's I think you will find that we beat you there too.

Next,

Academics? Well while I freely admit that we are not MIT, I also know that TxSU is hardly Harvard.

BUT, if you insist on going there, might I remind you of this fact:

SOUTHLAND CONFERENCE ANNOUNCES
COMMISSIONER’S FALL ACADEMIC HONOR ROLL

553 Student-Athletes Earn CapitalOne / Southland Commissioner’s Fall Academic Honor Roll Merits.

FRISCO, Texas - The Southland Conference announced today that 553 student-athletes have been named to the Commissioner’s Fall Academic Honor Roll.

McNeese State led all schools with 70 on the commissioner’s academic honor roll. Highlighting those student-athletes was 2007 SLC Women’s Soccer Student Athlete of the Year Kamryn Koch, who posted a 3.25 grade point average in
general studies.

In addition, Cowboy football student-athletes David Ballard and Brant Linde were named CoSIDA ESPN, The Magazine, Academic All-District selections, posting a 3.67 and 3.73 in gpa in general studies and accounting, respectively. The undefeated regular season and SLC Champion McNeese football team also placed more players (39) on the fall honor roll list than any other SLC team.

Northwestern State had 64 student-athletes on the commissioner’s fall honor roll, while Stephen F. Austin had 63. For the Ladyjacks, women’s soccer student-athlete Jessica Cotton was a CoSIDA ESPN The Magazine Academic All-District selection, posting a 3.67 grade point average in interdisciplinary studies.

Texas State placed 57 student-athletes on the commissioner’s fall honor roll, highlighted by 2007 SLC Football Student Athlete of the Year Nick Clark, an CoSIDA ESPN The Magazine Academic All-District selection and a semi-finalist for the Draddy Drophy, as he posted a 3.76 grade point average in math. In addition, volleyball’s Emily Jones was a CoSIDA ESPN The Magazine Academic All-District selection, with a 3.91 grade point average in math and business.

Sam Houston State and Central Arkansas placed 55 and 50 student-athletes on the fall honor roll, respectively, while Southeastern Louisiana placed 45. For the Lions, women’s soccer student athlete Dana Mayer was a CoSIDA ESPN, The Magazine Academic All-District selection, posting a 4.0 grade point average in biology.

Nicholls State placed 38 student-athletes on the team, while Lamar added 35, highlighted by 2007 SLC Volleyball Student Athlete of the Year Molli Abel, who was a CoSIDA ESPN The Magazine Academic All-District selection after posting a 3.63 grade point average in nursing. In addition, volleyball’s Adrianne Meengs was also a CoSIDA ESPN, The Magazine Academic All-District selection, tallying a 4.0 grade point average in general business.

UTSA placed 33 student-athletes on the commissioner’s academic honor roll. Women’s soccer student-athlete Ezinne Okpo was a CoSIDA ESPN The Magazine Academic All-District selection, posting a 4.0 grade point average in political science.

UT Arlington and Texas A&M-Corpus Christi rounded out the commissioner’s fall honor roll with 23 and 20 studentathletes, respectively.

Presented by CaptialOne Bank, the honor roll recognizes student-athletes who competed in league championship sports during the fall semester and maintained a 3.0 semester grade point average while enrolled in a minimum of 12 semester hours.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will also however; point out that I currently have 1 former SWT Bobcat grad. that works for me. She has been on my staff longer than anyone else, and is happy in her current role as my Adm. Assistant.

I had 2 a couple of years ago before I took another job within my company in our Chicago head quarters before we relocated the HQ own to Houston when I returned and took my old staffers back when I consolidated my regions in the Eastern America's, which covers everything east of the Rockies from Maine to Arentina. So if you think your school is so superior to mine, why do SWT grads call me BOSS? xwhistlex

And really, only the IGNORANT of the world think the many schools that you choose to hang out here with on this board and try to make yourself, and that of your school, out to be better than us by calling us anything other than Division I have a problem with Penis envy. Are you feeling a bit in adequate at times? xeyebrowx

[McTailGator]

the slc might take us back, depending on if any spots are open, or if theyre looking to expand another eastern team w/ fb also.

we could join the great West also, although it would be expensive travel, I think UTPA is about to do it.



I'll answer that...

Our President, who gets to vote and always sits with McNeese fans on the road and has experienced your foul mouthed students enough to cause your President to write the letter she sent out to your student body in 06.

You will NOT be invited back, and don't be suprised if you are asked to leave once Lamar is back on the field in 2011.

Especially if TAM-CC decides in 2010 to start up football like their president has stated he would like to do. They could begin in 2013.

You heard it here first...

[slycat]

I love it how you feel the need to have to venture away from football to try an get a foot hold on a discussion you can win. Even though you can't.

1st,

Take a look at the win vs loss record of all of McNeese's athletic programs vs TxSU's I think you will find that we beat you there too.

Next,

Academics? Well while I freely admit that we are not MIT, I also know that TxSU is hardly Harvard.

BUT, if you insist on going there, might I remind you Of this fact:

SOUTHLAND CONFERENCE ANNOUNCES
COMMISSIONER’S FALL ACADEMIC HONOR ROLL

553 Student-Athletes Earn CapitalOne / Southland Commissioner’s Fall Academic Honor Roll Merits.

FRISCO, Texas - The Southland Conference announced today that 553 student-athletes have been named to the
Commissioner’s Fall Academic Honor Roll.
McNeese State led all schools with 70 on the commissioner’s academic honor roll. Highlighting those student-athletes
was 2007 SLC Women’s Soccer Student Athlete of the Year Kamryn Koch, who posted a 3.25 grade point average in
general studies.

In addition, Cowboy football student-athletes David Ballard and Brant Linde were named CoSIDA ESPN, The Magazine, Academic All-District selections, posting a 3.67 and 3.73 in gpa in general studies and accounting, respectively. The undefeated regular season and SLC Champion McNeese football team placed more players (39) on the fall honor roll list than any other SLC team.

Northwestern State had 64 student-athletes on the commissioner’s fall honor roll, while Stephen F. Austin had 63. For the Ladyjacks, women’s soccer student-athlete Jessica Cotton was a CoSIDA ESPN The Magazine Academic All-District selection, posting a 3.67 grade point average in interdisciplinary studies.

Texas State placed 57 student-athletes on the commissioner’s fall honor roll, highlighted by 2007 SLC Football Student Athlete of the Year Nick Clark, an CoSIDA ESPN The Magazine Academic All-District selection and a semi-finalist for the
Draddy Drophy, as he posted a 3.76 grade point average in math. In addition, volleyball’s Emily Jones was a CoSIDA ESPN The Magazine Academic All-District selection, with a 3.91 grade point average in math and business.

Sam Houston State and Central Arkansas placed 55 and 50 student-athletes on the fall honor roll, respectively, while
Southeastern Louisiana placed 45. For the Lions, women’s soccer student athlete Dana Mayer was a CoSIDA ESPN The
Magazine Academic All-District selection, posting a 4.0 grade point average in biology.

Nicholls State placed 38 student-athletes on the team, while Lamar added 35, highlighted by 2007 SLC Volleyball
Student Athlete of the Year Molli Abel, who was a CoSIDA ESPN The Magazine Academic All-District selection after
posting a 3.63 grade point average in nursing. In addition, volleyball’s Adrianne Meengs was also a CoSIDA ESPN The
Magazine Academic All-District selection, tallying a 4.0 grade point average in general business.

UTSA placed 33 student-athletes on the commissioner’s academic honor roll. Women’s soccer student-athlete Ezinne
Okpo was a CoSIDA ESPN The Magazine Academic All-District selection, posting a 4.0 grade point average in political
science.

UT Arlington and Texas A&M-Corpus Christi rounded out the commissioner’s fall honor roll with 23 and 20 studentathletes,
respectively.

Presented by CaptialOne Bank, the honor roll recognizes student-athletes who competed in league championship sports
during the fall semester and maintained a 3.0 semester grade point average while enrolled in a minimum of 12 semester
hours.



I will also however; point out that I currently have 1 former SWT Bobcat grad. that works for me. She has been on my staff longer than anyone else, and is happy in her current role as my Adm. Assistant.

I had 2 a couple of years ago before I took another job within my company in our Chicago head quarters before we relocated the HQ own to Houston. So if you think your school is so superior to mine, why do SWT grads call me BOSS? xwhistlex

And really, only the IGNORANT of the world think the many schools that you choose to hang out here with on this board and try to make yourself, and that of your school, out to be better than us by calling us anything other than Division I have a problem with Penis envy. Are you feeling a bit in adequate at times? xeyebrowx

i agreed with most things you posted today but this is pretty lame. there are plenty of people from schools working under people from other schools.

[slycat]

I'll answer that...

Our President, who gets to vote and always sits with McNeese fans on the road and has experienced your foul mouthed students enough to cause your President to write the letter she sent out to your student body in 06.

You will NOT be invited back, and don't be suprised if you are asked to leave once Lamar is back on the field in 2011.

Especially if TAM-CC decides in 2010 to start up football like their president has stated he would like to do. They could begin in 2013.

You heard it here first...

i agree. texas st has burned to many bridges to get back into the slc if we leave.

[MaximumBobcat]

That is a nice little article that shows that you did in fact have a high number of student-athletes that qualified for the SLC honor roll. For that, your institution should be congratulated.

I don't want to bother looking up your frosh avg SAT stats which I am sure are much lower, but McNeese is considered a Fourth tier university not too mention a good number of your students come from some of the worst public schools districts in the country. The academics really don't compare here, sorry and it's no use arguing over it because we both know that Texas State and UT-Arlington have the best overall university academics of the SLC schools.


Take a look at the win vs loss record of all of McNeese's athletic programs vs TxSU's I think you will find that we beat you there too.


Take a look here...

http://www.southland.org/fls/18400/pdf/record-book-commissioners.pdf

It's all there, black and white, clear as crystal! You lose! Good day, sir!

Seriously though, you will see that since the 1999-2000 school year, Texas State has finished the year above McNeese state in total points for the commissioner cup, which including this year is nine straight years. The CC is one of the best ways to look at the overall progress of the ENTIRE athletic department.

Vs. MSU...

Tennis: 03/09/08 at McNeese State Lake Charles, La. W, 6-1

Softball: Sat., May 3 at McNeese State Lake Charles, La. W, 2-0
at McNeese State Lake Charles, La. L, 7-6
Sun., May 4 at McNeese State Lake Charles, La. W, 4-1

Soccer: at MSU L 3-0

Vball: Oct 20, 2007 Lake Charles, LA McNeese State 3, Texas State 2
Nov 16, 2007 San Antonio, Texas Texas State 3, McNeese State 0

Baseball: 05/09/08 at Mcneese State ^ Lake Charles, La. W, 8-2
05/10/08 at Mcneese State ^ Lake Charles, La. W, 26-4 (7)
05/11/08 at Mcneese State ^ Lake Charles, La. W, 3-1

Basketball: 02/13/08 at Mcneese State Lake Charles, La. L, 81-77

Football Oct 06, 2007 San Marcos, Texas McNeese State 41, Texas State 20

W Basketball: 02/14/08 San Marcos, Texas (Strahan Coliseum) Texas State 99, McNeese State 50



xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex

[McTailGator]

i agreed with most things you posted today but this is pretty lame. there are plenty of people from schools working under people from other schools.



I agree,

BUT, he CHOSE to try to think SWT is far superior to mine.

I think I just proved to him that he is basically,

well, let's just say UN-INFORMED.


THE HONOR ROLL article should prove him wrong enough.

Note that 2 Louisiana schools lead the entire SLC when it comes to who is naking the grade.

[McTailGator]

[QUOTE=MaximumBobcat;990129]That is a nice little article that shows that you did in fact have a high number of student-athletes that qualified for the SLC honor roll. For that, your institution should be congratulated.

I don't want to bother looking up your frosh avg SAT stats which I am sure are much lower, but McNeese is considered a Fourth tier university not too mention a good number of your students come from some of the worst public schools districts in the country. The academics really don't compare here, sorry and it's no use arguing over it because we both know that Texas State and UT-Arlington have the best overall university academics of the SLC schools.

Don't bother with the SAT, because our students must take the ACT...


But if your classes are just so superior, what you are saying is, your students aren't learning as much as ours are, because we make the grades and you are not.


Again.

Why do BobCat grads call me BOSS?



And donlt post any Commish Cup crap here.

It is a BS award that our school and fans could care less about.

COUNT THE CHAMPIONSHIPS


ESPECIALLY OUR 12 SLC FOOTBALL CHAMPIONSHIPS,,, TO YOUR SINGLE SHARED TITLE.

How many losing seasons have you guys had since joinng D-I?

I know that number, but I'll let you answer it.

Hint. You have far less winning seasons...


AND IF YOU LOOKED A LITTLE HARDER YOU WOULD FIND MANY MORE SLC CHAMPIONSHIP TROPHIES AT McNEESE THAN ANY TEXAS STATE SPORT IN ALL SPORTS.

BASKETBALL - McNeese has 5 SLC TITLES TO YOUR 2
BASEBALL - We have 8 appearences in the post season to your 6.

[DSUrocks07]

What about North Carolina Central or Savannah State? Does anybody know whether they have aspirations for the MEAC?

Central has a better chance than Savannah St right now. But odds are they will try to bring them both in at the same time...12 team for football, but that would give us 14 i believe for all other sports

[MaximumBobcat]

Don't bother with the SAT, because our students must take the ACT...

But if your classes are just so superior, what you are saying is, your students aren't learning as much as ours are, because we make the grades and you are not.

I already covered this chief, go back and read again.




Again.

Why do BobCat grads call me BOSS?



This is truly pathetic.

Your company hired her/him, that's why. For crissakes, I know a guy personally that graduated from a community college that is head of exploration drilling of the lower 48 for a major oil corporation.

What you are trying to imply is just wrong. There are plenty of Ivy League graduates that go into jobs where the CEOs might not have gone to as prestigious as Universities. It happens all the time.

Grow up.



And donlt post any Commish Cup crap here.

It is a BS award that our school and fans could care less about.

COUNT THE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Well, you might have more ConfCham's, but that's not what you said, so it's irrelevant in this argument. ALSO, you guys have been playing basketball and baseball in the SLC since 1973. Texas State has only been playing since 1988. You guys had 15 extra years in the league to do some of that.

While I agree that the Commissioners Cup is something that nobody really cares about, it gives the best idea of the overall athletic department at that time. I hated to admit it considering SHSU had won it for the past few years, but it is true.

[slostang]

I know it will not happen, but I would love to see the Big Sky merge with the GWFC and form a two divisions (7 teams in each division) super conference like the CAA. SUU, UND and USD could become full members and Cal Poly and UC Davis could become football only members.

Like I said I know it wont happen, but one can dream.

[mainejeff]

IMHO, the CAA will not stay together much longer, as it is currently constructed...

Georgia State and ODU are full CAA members and their entry into football will put pressure on the football-only members to move on...

UMass, URI, UNH, and Maine are associate members...I think the pressure is already building to do something...I'm not connected enough to know what will happen...but I don't see the CAA surviving past 2012 with all it's current football members...

I tend to agree with you, but it's hard to figure out what the final outcome will be.

You have to look at the A-10 and America East, and I don't see either of those leagues wanting to run a football conference right now. And does a conference still need 6 teams playing together for 5 years to get an autobid?

Although fans of these schools and the CAA would deny it, I could see Hofstra and Northeastern looking at the A-10 and America East for all-sports membership. At this point, there is no room in the A-10, but Hofstra has to be on a short list if they lose a school or 2 to another league. And I just don't see how Northeastern operates their program by traveling so far for all of their away athletic contests. Flying and driving will continue to become more expensive for them. And there facilities just don't match many of their peers in the CAA.

The 2 scenarios I could see:

If AE sponsors football:

Maine
UNH
Northeastern*
UMass
URI
Albany
Stony Brook

* Comes back to AE for all sports.

If the A-10 sponsors football:

Maine
UNH
UMass
URI
Albany
Stony Brook
*Hofstra
Richmond

* Hofstra becomes an all-sport member of the A-10.


The A-10 scenario is the better one IMO. Obviously, 8 teams is better than 7.....and having Hofstra and Richmond is better than having Northeastern. Villanova is a wildcard in the A-10 scenario. They are leaving the CAA for lacrosse, and the A-10 is based in Philly. But as everyone points out......playing Delaware once per year is worth more than any scenario that excludes Delaware from their conference schedule. xrolleyesx

[McTailGator]

<<<<What you are trying to imply is just wrong. There are plenty of Ivy League graduates that go into jobs where the CEOs might not have gone to as prestigious as Universities. It happens all the time.>>>>


Funny, I am Implying EXACTLY what you are trying to imply with your BS 4th tier crap. It is a WORTHLESS statistic developed by egg head pHd's who are trying to give them selves a since of self worth.

So don't think it is just me trying to imply something. I am just mocking your Tier crap. It's worthless information.



McNeese's Engineering program is VERY good, as is our Environmental Science program. I would go out of my way to hire those graduates because of WHAT they are taught, HOW they are taught, and WHO taught them.

All of the professors in those two departments have a minimum of 20 to years of INDUSTRIAL experience. Not to mention all of the research they still conduct. But that real life industrial experience in real projects gives them first hand knowledge of what the real world wants in a Engineer or an Environmental scientist.


I have worked with graduates in those concentrations from other schools and I can tell you that it took me YEARS to get them to where I needed them to be to produce quality work.

[UAalum72]

You have to look at the A-10 and America East, and I don't see either of those leagues wanting to run a football conference right now. And does a conference still need 6 teams playing together for 5 years to get an autobid?
2 years, per NCAA bylaws (it's still five years for basketball)
31.3.4.2 Requirements—National Collegiate Championship. [#] To be eligible for automatic qualification in National Collegiate Championship, a member conference must meet the following general requirements: (Adopted: 1/9/06 effective 8/1/06)
(a) Have at least six active members that sponsor the applicable sport in any division (note: a provisional member in the process of becoming an NCAA member can not be used to meet the requisite number);
(b) The six active members must have conducted conference competition together for the preceding two
years in the applicable sport;

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

2 years, per NCAA bylaws (it's still five years for basketball)
31.3.4.2 Requirements—National Collegiate Championship. [#] To be eligible for automatic qualification in National Collegiate Championship, a member conference must meet the following general requirements: (Adopted: 1/9/06 effective 8/1/06)
(a) Have at least six active members that sponsor the applicable sport in any division (note: a provisional member in the process of becoming an NCAA member can not be used to meet the requisite number);
(b) The six active members must have conducted conference competition together for the preceding two
years in the applicable sport;

If I'm reading that correctly, then AE Football wouldn't be immediately eligible for an AQ but the A-10 would be.

Still don't think UMass would be interested in the AE option unless it was their last resort option. Add in the apparent inability of the AE Administration to muster any kind of legs for AE Football and you have a serious uphill battle with that troika of factors.

Maybe with a new commissioner the A-10 will have a renewed interest in football, but it would have been a whole lot easier for them back when they still held control of the AQ.

And JMHO but unless the Big South gets another team or two, I'd think they would make it very difficult and very expensive for Stony Brook to bail.

I'm still not seeing either the A-10 or AE as a "silver bullet" nor real viable alternatives. Still say we won't know enough until the Big East plays their cards in 2010.

[BEAR]

Oh yeah...another thread on "The Texas State Debate"...xmadx xlolx

[IndianaAppMan]

one great year in the FBS can do 10X more good things for a university than back to back to back FCS national championships. Why not give it a shot?

Obviously you don't know what you're talking about. Since our first nat'l title, App State has gotten more applications than the year before, allowing for greater selectivity (i.e., students with higher GPA's and SAT/ACT scores than ever before). We've been able to add $50 million in athletic facilities. We've been on the front page of the New York Times and Sports Illustrated. Maybe it's only mildly related, but football's 1-AA success certainly hasn't hurt as the university has gained ground in its academic programs, as well, by adding a nursing program and a new program for energy studies (i.e., wind energy, other eco-friendly energy sources).

You can bet your bottom dollar that App State's 3 national titles in 1-AA have done more for its university than Florida International's, MTSU's, or most any other Sun Belt team has done for its respective university. I expect that the same would happen at Texas State unless they can start selling tickets RIGHT NOW.

[IndianaAppMan]

You can bet your bottom dollar that App State's 3 national titles in 1-AA have done more for its university than Florida International's, MTSU's, or most any other Sun Belt team has done for its respective university. I expect that the same would happen at Texas State unless they can start selling tickets RIGHT NOW.

I forgot to mention even the more successful 1-AA move-ups. Florida Atlantic (reigning Sun Belt champ), Troy (winner over Oklahoma State in '07, plus multiple-bowl winner), and Marshall each have not enjoyed the national fame App State has enjoyed. From Seattle to Miami, Boston to San Diego, and everywhere in between, people have heard about App State and Boone, North Carolina. That's not the case for the other schools I mentioned. Do not underestimate the value of an FCS national title, let alone 3 straight or a victory versus an all-time power like Michigan.

I'll admit I'm not extremely familiar w/ the Texas State situation, but it seems that the leadership conveniently discounts the struggles its struggling neighbors in its own state. I expect them to have the same problems that MAC teams have: completely overshadowed by the in-state BCS conference teams. Rice has suffered enormously from that problem (not being Big 12). Same for the MAC teams. You have over 100,000 fans go to Ohio State, and even Ohio's other BCS conference team (Cincy) struggles to draw 35,000; no wonder Miami (OH) & co. can't get any non-alumni to come to their games. I expect Texas State would endure the same troubles. Thus, I really question that team's move to FBS.

[IndianaAppMan]

Central has a better chance than Savannah St right now. But odds are they will try to bring them both in at the same time...12 team for football, but that would give us 14 i believe for all other sports

Cool:) That 14 number could be trouble though. It seems like either 9 or 12 is the ideal number for conferences. 9 because all opponents are played in FB w/ 4 home, 4 away, and a full round-robin sked is available for b-ball. 12 because of the 6-team divisions, w/ 8/11 opponents played in FB, and in basketball, 5 opponents played twice and 6 played once. 14 makes scheduling much, much harder. We'll see what happens...

[BearsCountry]

Obviously you don't know what you're talking about. Since our first nat'l title, App State has gotten more applications than the year before, allowing for greater selectivity (i.e., students with higher GPA's and SAT/ACT scores than ever before). We've been able to add $50 million in athletic facilities. We've been on the front page of the New York Times and Sports Illustrated. Maybe it's only mildly related, but football's 1-AA success certainly hasn't hurt as the university has gained ground in its academic programs, as well, by adding a nursing program and a new program for energy studies (i.e., wind energy, other eco-friendly energy sources).

You can bet your bottom dollar that App State's 3 national titles in 1-AA have done more for its university than Florida International's, MTSU's, or most any other Sun Belt team has done for its respective university. I expect that the same would happen at Texas State unless they can start selling tickets RIGHT NOW.

You beat Michigan that is what got all the pub, more than your national titles.

[IndianaAppMan]

You beat Michigan that is what got all the pub, more than your national titles.

Agreed, but the point is that we did it as an FCS team. If a lower-tier FBS team knocked off Michigan, it's not as though they'd get that kind of pub, unless it was either a late-season upset that deterred nat'l title hopes or a bowl game upset a la Boise State over Oklahoma.

Besides, even after our first title, the number of applications soared. App State's limited in the number they can admit since its campus is in a very, very compact mountain valley (making new dorms very hard to come by); thus, admission standards have been raised. The point is that FCS titles do raise a university's profile, and I'd argue that even without the Michigan game, App State has garnered national familiarity on par with at least low-tier FBS teams like FIU, FAU, MTSU, even East Carolina.

Another thing for Texas State: if they think FBS football is absolutely essential for national respect as a university, they need to realize there are other ways to get that. Off the top of my head, Emory, Mercer, Johns Hopkins, the whole Ivy League, the whole Patriot League, the U of Chicago, Cal Tech, MIT, and many others are nationally-renowned without FBS football; they've gotten their prominence by drawing world-class faculty, researchers, and students.

[UCABEARS75]

From the TxSU website: http://www.athletics.txstate.edu/thedrive/home.htm

Ticket Goals

Starting with the 2008 football season Texas State must begin to show increases in tickets sales and attendance to meet NCAA requirements for FBS. As we Drive towards meeting our ticket sales and attendance goals, keep updated on our progress. Here are the football ticket goals for the season and our current seats sold.

Ticket Goal: 2,500
Total seats sold: 274
Updated: 6.18.2008


http://www.athletics.txstate.edu/thedrive/Images/ticketgasgauge.jpghttp://grfx.cstv.com/schools/mcne/graphics/auto/SeasonTickets620.gif

TxSU's Goal vs McNeese's Goal...



And THAT is where TxSU is making their single biggest mistake. And it is the SAME mistake made by ever team that has moved from I-AA to I-A.

Other than Troy, Marshall, and Boise St that is...

Why those schools and no one else?

BECAUSE LIKE McNEESE, THE FANS OF THOSE SCHOOLS BUY TICKETS AND GO TO THE GAMES TO SEE THEIR FOOTBALL TEAM. NOT THEIR OPPONENTS.

Does anyone really believe that McNeese fans ever heard of West Virginia Tech, or The University of South Virginia? Heck no.

Our fans go to see THEIR Cowboys play. That is also the reason why we travel better than all the other SLC schools COMBINED. We can not stand the thought of missing a game. It is unbearable to us.

Hell, the year I lived in Chicago, I only missed 2 McNeese games (both in LC) and it liked to kill me. I did everything in my power to get my company to transfer me back down to Houston. I have already booked my trips to Chapel Hill and South Dakota. I simply refuse to miss a game. Any where.





Sly, I have seen so many teams come and go in the SLC. Only Troy and to a lesser extent LaTech has had any success. And LaTech is backing up now. They may not recover.

But, Troy and Tech had HUGE fan followings. As well as alumni and sponsors who fork it over. BIG TIME. Those folks also buy a lot of tickets.

You guys don't have any of that. You have more students. But they get in for free, and only about 5 to 10% of them even show up. The worse thing any athletic program could do is rely on it's student population for anything. McNeese will sell more season tickets this year than we have students on campus.

You guy's just had a Million Dollar donation and it was a big deal (as it should be). McNeese had 2 just this year, and football season doesn't even start for another 2 months or so.

We have about a dozen or more booster clubs and an athletic foundation that give or raise close to a Million every year or two.

People freak out when they find out our head coach's salary is among the lowest in the SLC, but what they fail to realize is he makes much more from his radio, and TV, shows, and all coaches are able to substantially supplement their salaries from the couple of camps they produce.

Plus, they receive 2 or 3 free cars each year from every Lake Area car dealer. The booster clubs pay for their insurance and gas as well.

I have also heard that home loan interest rates and closing costs are un beatable for McNeese coaches as well. All that stuff is non taxable so it adds up and counts for a lot.

BRAVO, well said McTailGator!

[UCABEARS75]

I would like to follow up on McTailGators respone.

In particular I agree with the part about going to games to support YOUR TEAM. I have attended hundreds of UCA games since 1971 both at home and on the road. I have attended games and WRITTEN CHECKS when we were losing and winning. I went to cheer on my team when we were NAIA, NCAA D-II, and now NCAA D-I. The competition, fan comradare, and fun factor in the SLC is far exceeding my expectations and I want to thank the SLC fans, once again, for welcoming us with open arms.

[813Jag]

I forgot to mention even the more successful 1-AA move-ups. Florida Atlantic (reigning Sun Belt champ), Troy (winner over Oklahoma State in '07, plus multiple-bowl winner), and Marshall each have not enjoyed the national fame App State has enjoyed. From Seattle to Miami, Boston to San Diego, and everywhere in between, people have heard about App State and Boone, North Carolina. That's not the case for the other schools I mentioned. Do not underestimate the value of an FCS national title, let alone 3 straight or a victory versus an all-time power like Michigan.

I'll admit I'm not extremely familiar w/ the Texas State situation, but it seems that the leadership conveniently discounts the struggles its struggling neighbors in its own state. I expect them to have the same problems that MAC teams have: completely overshadowed by the in-state BCS conference teams. Rice has suffered enormously from that problem (not being Big 12). Same for the MAC teams. You have over 100,000 fans go to Ohio State, and even Ohio's other BCS conference team (Cincy) struggles to draw 35,000; no wonder Miami (OH) & co. can't get any non-alumni to come to their games. I expect Texas State would endure the same troubles. Thus, I really question that team's move to FBS.

I agree with your points about exposure, but there's really now way to compare FAU to any of those programs you mentioned. (except for the fact that they are a Sun Belt team) As you may know their program is only 7 years old and still growing. Being in a favorable location can only increase their image.

[813Jag]

Central has a better chance than Savannah St right now. But odds are they will try to bring them both in at the same time...12 team for football, but that would give us 14 i believe for all other sports
What about Virgina State or Virginia Union in the MEAC?

[DSUrocks07]

What about Virgina State or Virginia Union in the MEAC?

And have the MEAC become the "Big East" of FCS? xconfusedx that would give us 16 schools...

[dbackjon]

It would be nice to read a conference change/update thread without Texas Terror's hatred for Texas State to show up for a change.

We get it that you hate Texas State. We know that they have announced intentions to move to FBS, when and if the moratorium is lifted. Whether that will ever happen, who knows. but give it a rest, please.

[WileECoyote06]

What about Virgina State or Virginia Union in the MEAC?

Word on the street is the Mid-Atlantic schools (Hampton, Howard, Coppin State, Norfolk State) are pushing for preferred admission status for VSU, should they decide to move up to Division I, as a partner school for NCCU. The southern schools (BCC, FAMU, SCSU) prefer Savannah State as a partner for NCCU.

This is in addition to concerns about revenue-sharing, and scheduling. There was a point at which, NCCU was considered a shoo-in for MEAC inclusion, and then WSSU jumped on the opportunity as we concluded our feasibility study. This whole process has been frustrating, and at this point, I'd rather join the Big South should they make an offer of membership.

[dgreco]

Word on the street is the Mid-Atlantic schools (Hampton, Howard, Coppin State, Norfolk State) are pushing for preferred admission status for VSU, should they decide to move up to Division I, as a partner school for NCCU. The southern schools (BCC, FAMU, SCSU) prefer Savannah State as a partner for NCCU.

This is in addition to concerns about revenue-sharing, and scheduling. There was a point at which, NCCU was considered a shoo-in for MEAC inclusion, and then WSSU jumped on the opportunity as we concluded our feasibility study. This whole process has been frustrating, and at this point, I'd rather join the Big South should they make an offer of membership.


has NCCU expressed any intent to go the route of the Big South if the MEAC falls through? Also, think this move could start a trend of some HBCU's who are ready to move on to actually make the move?

[McTailGator]

You beat Michigan that is what got all the pub, more than your national titles.

Not amongs the people that really count. The fans that buy tickets, which is the reason they were enlarging their stadium before they got on the plane for Michigan, and the students that submitted applications in 2005, and 2006.


That was all happening before the UM game, THAT is what makes them money and increased the QUALITY of students. prior to the 2007 season.

[zilla]

Word on the street is the Mid-Atlantic schools (Hampton, Howard, Coppin State, Norfolk State) are pushing for preferred admission status for VSU, should they decide to move up to Division I, as a partner school for NCCU. The southern schools (BCC, FAMU, SCSU) prefer Savannah State as a partner for NCCU.

This is in addition to concerns about revenue-sharing, and scheduling. There was a point at which, NCCU was considered a shoo-in for MEAC inclusion, and then WSSU jumped on the opportunity as we concluded our feasibility study. This whole process has been frustrating, and at this point, I'd rather join the Big South should they make an offer of membership.

No school is ever a "shoe-in" to join another conference anymore. Being a CCU fan, I would know. xnodx

Just curious, has NCCU had any contact with the Big South?

[Col Hogan]

I tend to agree with you, but it's hard to figure out what the final outcome will be.

You have to look at the A-10 and America East, and I don't see either of those leagues wanting to run a football conference right now. And does a conference still need 6 teams playing together for 5 years to get an autobid?

Although fans of these schools and the CAA would deny it, I could see Hofstra and Northeastern looking at the A-10 and America East for all-sports membership. At this point, there is no room in the A-10, but Hofstra has to be on a short list if they lose a school or 2 to another league. And I just don't see how Northeastern operates their program by traveling so far for all of their away athletic contests. Flying and driving will continue to become more expensive for them. And there facilities just don't match many of their peers in the CAA.

The 2 scenarios I could see:

If AE sponsors football:

Maine
UNH
Northeastern*
UMass
URI
Albany
Stony Brook

* Comes back to AE for all sports.

If the A-10 sponsors football:

Maine
UNH
UMass
URI
Albany
Stony Brook
*Hofstra
Richmond

* Hofstra becomes an all-sport member of the A-10.


The A-10 scenario is the better one IMO. Obviously, 8 teams is better than 7.....and having Hofstra and Richmond is better than having Northeastern. Villanova is a wildcard in the A-10 scenario. They are leaving the CAA for lacrosse, and the A-10 is based in Philly. But as everyone points out......playing Delaware once per year is worth more than any scenario that excludes Delaware from their conference schedule. xrolleyesx

Great post, MJ...I can see either scenario...I think the A-10 one is better, for the reasons you give...xthumbsupx

And I definately want to see Delaware somewhere in the mix...even if it's OOC on a regular basis...

[james_lawfirm]

Great post, MJ...I can see either scenario...I think the A-10 one is better, for the reasons you give...xthumbsupx

And I definately want to see Delaware somewhere in the mix...even if it's OOC on a regular basis...

Col:

How did you change your name above your Avatar? I presume you did b/c I don't recall seeing any of your other 3,000+ posts. Thx.

[Seawolf97]

I tend to agree with you, but it's hard to figure out what the final outcome will be.

You have to look at the A-10 and America East, and I don't see either of those leagues wanting to run a football conference right now. And does a conference still need 6 teams playing together for 5 years to get an autobid?

Although fans of these schools and the CAA would deny it, I could see Hofstra and Northeastern looking at the A-10 and America East for all-sports membership. At this point, there is no room in the A-10, but Hofstra has to be on a short list if they lose a school or 2 to another league. And I just don't see how Northeastern operates their program by traveling so far for all of their away athletic contests. Flying and driving will continue to become more expensive for them. And there facilities just don't match many of their peers in the CAA.

The 2 scenarios I could see:

If AE sponsors football:

Maine
UNH
Northeastern*
UMass
URI
Albany
Stony Brook

* Comes back to AE for all sports.

If the A-10 sponsors football:

Maine
UNH
UMass
URI
Albany
Stony Brook
*Hofstra
Richmond

* Hofstra becomes an all-sport member of the A-10.


The A-10 scenario is the better one IMO. Obviously, 8 teams is better than 7.....and having Hofstra and Richmond is better than having Northeastern. Villanova is a wildcard in the A-10 scenario. They are leaving the CAA for lacrosse, and the A-10 is based in Philly. But as everyone points out......playing Delaware once per year is worth more than any scenario that excludes Delaware from their conference schedule. xrolleyesx

I like that arrangement in the A-10 . What about Fordham going scholarship football and playing in the A10? That would give them easy travel games to Stonybrook, Hofstra and Albany and URI isnt all that far from NYC. Interesting stuff.

[AppMan]

You beat Michigan that is what got all the pub, more than your national titles.

Exactly. ASU received more pub from the Michigan win than it would winning 25 national championships.

[IndianaAppMan]

Exactly. ASU received more pub from the Michigan win than it would winning 25 national championships.

No one would argue about that. Of course ASU got more national pub from the Michigan game.

Let me be clear. THAT IS NOT THE POINT. This is the point...


Not amongs the people that really count. The fans that buy tickets, which is the reason they were enlarging their stadium before they got on the plane for Michigan, and the students that submitted applications in 2005, and 2006.


That was all happening before the UM game, THAT is what makes them money and increased the QUALITY of students. prior to the 2007 season.

The Texas State fan was arguing that a good year in FBS would do more than back-to-back-to-back FCS titles would. My argument was that our university's stature in the quality of students has been raised by our 3Peat in the FCS, and that our FCS titles have helped the university more than, say, Troy's trip to the New Orleans Bowl has helped its university. Our 3 FCS titles have also helped make $50 million in athletic facility improvements. Contrary to the Texas State guy's argument, many decent FBS teams aren't able to do that.

Again, do not underestimate the value 3 straight FCS titles can do for a university. Marketed the right way, it can do more for a university than a good FBS team.

[SoCon48]

No one would argue about that. Of course ASU got more national pub from the Michigan game.

Let me be clear. THAT IS NOT THE POINT. This is the point...



The Texas State fan was arguing that a good year in FBS would do more than back-to-back-to-back FCS titles would. My argument was that our university's stature in the quality of students has been raised by our 3Peat in the FCS, and that our FCS titles have helped the university more than, say, Troy's trip to the New Orleans Bowl has helped its university. Our 3 FCS titles have also helped make $50 million in athletic facility improvements. Contrary to the Texas State guy's argument, many decent FBS teams aren't able to do that.

Again, do not underestimate the value 3 straight FCS titles can do for a university. Marketed the right way, it can do more for a university than a good FBS team.

EXACTLY!!!

[SoCon48]

Agreed, but the point is that we did it as an FCS team. If a lower-tier FBS team knocked off Michigan, it's not as though they'd get that kind of pub, unless it was either a late-season upset that deterred nat'l title hopes or a bowl game upset a la Boise State over Oklahoma.

Besides, even after our first title, the number of applications soared. App State's limited in the number they can admit since its campus is in a very, very compact mountain valley (making new dorms very hard to come by); thus, admission standards have been raised. The point is that FCS titles do raise a university's profile, and I'd argue that even without the Michigan game, App State has garnered national familiarity on par with at least low-tier FBS teams like FIU, FAU, MTSU, even East Carolina.

Another thing for Texas State: if they think FBS football is absolutely essential for national respect as a university, they need to realize there are other ways to get that. Off the top of my head, Emory, Mercer, Johns Hopkins, the whole Ivy League, the whole Patriot League, the U of Chicago, Cal Tech, MIT, and many others are nationally-renowned without FBS football; they've gotten their prominence by drawing world-class faculty, researchers, and students.

App State has garnered national familiarity on par with at least low-tier FBS teams like FIU, FAU, MTSU, even East Carolina.

EXACTLY!

[WileECoyote06]

has NCCU expressed any intent to go the route of the Big South if the MEAC falls through? Also, think this move could start a trend of some HBCU's who are ready to move on to actually make the move?

The Big South has always been a consideration. I'm not sure how far the talks have gone, but considering we have two games with Big South members (Presbyterian, Coastal Carolina), and were trying to get on Liberty's schedule, we are building goodwill with those institutions.

NCCU moved to Division I to align with peer institutions and to renew or continue our rivalries with our biggest money-making opponents: Winston-Salem State, NC A & T State. Membership in the Big South would allow us to keep down travel costs (all of their football playing members except Stonybrook are within a six hour drive); and still continue to play our two main rivals.

[813Jag]

And have the MEAC become the "Big East" of FCS? xconfusedx that would give us 16 schools...
No I meant adding one of them to get to 12 schools in football.

[bostonspider]

I do not think that the A10 is going to jump back into hosting a football league, and I also don't think Richmond would be all that interested in the league posted. UR is not going anywhere without W&M. I also cannot see them wanting to leave JMU with whom a strong rivalry has been built. Or even UD. Richmond in Basketball fits well with many of the A10 schools, but those fellow private schools do not in general field football teams except Fordham. So the CAA is a much better fit for UR football.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

It would be nice to read a conference change/update thread without Texas Terror's hatred for Texas State to show up for a change.

We get it that you hate Texas State. We know that they have announced intentions to move to FBS, when and if the moratorium is lifted. Whether that will ever happen, who knows. but give it a rest, please.

PREACH!!! xbowx

[TXSUBobcat]

Again, do not underestimate the value 3 straight FCS titles can do for a university. Marketed the right way, it can do more for a university than a good FBS team.

And the perception is, STILL, that ECU (for example), because it is a FBS program, has a better football team than App St. regardless of whether that is in fact the reality or not.

[danefan]

If I'm reading that correctly, then AE Football wouldn't be immediately eligible for an AQ but the A-10 would be.

Still don't think UMass would be interested in the AE option unless it was their last resort option. Add in the apparent inability of the AE Administration to muster any kind of legs for AE Football and you have a serious uphill battle with that troika of factors.

Maybe with a new commissioner the A-10 will have a renewed interest in football, but it would have been a whole lot easier for them back when they still held control of the AQ.

And JMHO but unless the Big South gets another team or two, I'd think they would make it very difficult and very expensive for Stony Brook to bail.

I'm still not seeing either the A-10 or AE as a "silver bullet" nor real viable alternatives. Still say we won't know enough until the Big East plays their cards in 2010.

Just one note. Stony Brook is set up in the Big South to be a marriage of convenience. It is a short-term contract with a buyout clause already in place. It ensures that the Big South will be eligible for the 2010 autobid. Stony Brook will be ready to go to another conference after that and will likely do so in the 2012 season when its free for them (they have a 4 year contract).

[mainejeff]

Just one note. Stony Brook is set up in the Big South to be a marriage of convenience. It is a short-term contract with a buyout clause already in place. It ensures that the Big South will be eligible for the 2010 autobid. Stony Brook will be ready to go to another conference after that and will likely do so in the 2012 season when its free for them (they have a 4 year contract).

Yeah, one thing that Stony Brook has demonstrated is that they are willing to move quickly on something that benefits THEM......and they are not afraid to throw money at something in order to get that accomplished. xthumbsupx

[mainejeff]

I do not think that the A10 is going to jump back into hosting a football league, and I also don't think Richmond would be all that interested in the league posted. UR is not going anywhere without W&M. I also cannot see them wanting to leave JMU with whom a strong rivalry has been built. Or even UD. Richmond in Basketball fits well with many of the A10 schools, but those fellow private schools do not in general field football teams except Fordham. So the CAA is a much better fit for UR football.

I can't see the A-10 allowing Richmond to play in the CAA for football if the A-10 sponsors football. Richmond should have stayed in the CAA ;).

[DFW HOYA]

I can't see the A-10 allowing Richmond to play in the CAA for football if the A-10 sponsors football.

Why not? They've variously let Temple, Fordham, Duquesne, LaSalle, and Dayton do it.

[Dane96]

Bad examples:

1- Temple plays at full-scholarship football...something the old--and probably any future-- conference did not support.

2- Dayton, Fordam, Duquense, and the now defunct LaSalle team, all played at a similarly different level than that previously offered by the A-Ten football banner.

Specifically with football, most leagues do not force a member to join the sponsored sport that does not represent the same goals (e.g.) of the individual school

[Ken_Z]

Why not? They've variously let Temple, Fordham, Duquesne, LaSalle, and Dayton do it.


these schools all played in a different category than the A10 sponsored league. Temple played at 1A while the other four were all non scholarship. The A10 was, of course, 1AA with full scholarships.

Once again, this is one of those screwy NCAA, you must be D1 in football if D1 in other sports, outcomes. If, for example, Fordham had offered full scholarship football, I believe they would have been required to play in the A10. now that the CAA sponsors the leage, they can remain in the Patriot when we move to merit aid.

[CollegeSportsInfo]

Why not? They've variously let Temple, Fordham, Duquesne, LaSalle, and Dayton do it.

Flawed example. The schools you listed all participated at a level of football different than the existing A10 schools. If the A10 were to again sponsor football at the same time the CAA did, it's hard to think that the A10 would say "sure, go ahead, there are 2 schools with UMass and URI, we dont' need a 3rd".

[Ken_Z]

Dane 96 types faster than me. he must use at least two fingers.

[Ken_Z]

but i beat CSI. he must use one thumb.

[DFW HOYA]

Yes, I fully understood the dichotomy, only to say that conferences tend to provide latitude when it suits their interests (see "Big East" & "Notre Dame")

[IndianaAppMan]

And the perception is, STILL, that ECU (for example), because it is a FBS program, has a better football team than App St. regardless of whether that is in fact the reality or not.

According to whom? Fans from here in Big Ten country to non-App fans in North Carolina to national radio hosts to ESPN (aside from Herbstreit) and Sports Illustrated, all I've heard is things like, "App State could probably walk into a lower-level conference right now and win it." No national writers ever even mention ECU. I mean, there's a reason ASU-LSU is on ESPN while ECU-West Virginia gets virtually no pub. Regardless of whether it's true that App is better than ECU, the perception is that, given App State's 3 straight titles and the Michigan game, App State IS better than ECU.

Besides, the point was that 3 FCS titles can do more for a university (if marketed the right way, as Chancellor Peacock has done) than a good FBS team. As stated before, more people are applying at App, the average SAT's & GPA's for incoming freshmen are rising, and millions of dollars are pouring in. Texas State should ask Rice University how much being FBS helps rake in the millions. (Save the argument that FBS makes Rice a better school; Rice would be top-notch with or without football.)

[Dane96]

Yes, I fully understood the dichotomy, only to say that conferences tend to provide latitude when it suits their interests (see "Big East" & "Notre Dame")

Again, poor example. NOTRE DAME is the ONLY school I am aware of that is remotely like this.

VERY...VERY different situation.

[IndianaAppMan]

And the perception is, STILL, that ECU (for example), because it is a FBS program, has a better football team than App St. regardless of whether that is in fact the reality or not.

Seriously, WHOSE perception is that ECU is better than App State just because it's FBS, outside of Pirate fans? Granted, Kirk Herbstreit probably has that opinion, but I never hear anybody else say anything like that. Sure, in Texas, most people erroneously equate Division 1-AA football with intramural-quality. According to the results from Rice's study on switching to FCS, their fans were furious at the thought of "downgrading" to playing "no-names like Sam Houston State."

I'm telling you, with App State, it's different. 3 straight titles has earned App State respect throughout the southeast. The PERCEPTION at my parents' alma mater (Florida State) was that ASU isn't worth the risk, so they scheduled Western Carolina and Chattanooga instead. The same perception about App State's strength was echoed by ECU, Ga. Tech, Wake Forest, UNC, NC State, and Duke when they declined the offer to play us this year.

Once again, people underestimate how much 3 straight titles can do. And, yes, that includes changing people's PERCEPTIONS nationwide that a top FCS program is better than a lot of FBS programs.

[bostonspider]

I can't see the A-10 allowing Richmond to play in the CAA for football if the A-10 sponsors football. Richmond should have stayed in the CAA ;).

Well it is one thing for a team to try and leave a conference for one sport and remain for all the others, it is another to try and force them to join two conference members in forming a new conference. The A10 never seemed to put its heart into sponsoring football, and therefore it was not at all a surprise when the old Yankee Conference became the CAA. Besides the A10 is not going to start up football again if say 2 of the 4 teams that play scholarship football (FU and UR) don't want to join. UR will not be joining a northern FOOTBALL league, unless somehow it was a scholarship offering Patriot League. UR has nothing in common with the listed schools of the future A10 football conference.

[IndianaAppMan]

UR will not be joining a northern FOOTBALL league, unless somehow it was a scholarship offering Patriot League. UR has nothing in common with the listed schools of the future A10 football conference.

Random thought: This is, of course, just speculation, but I'm curious if there's ever been talk about Richmond in the SoCon. Richmond seems to have much in common, academically, with Wofford, Furman, Elon, Davidson, and Samford, most of whom are closer than the northeastern schools. It would get strong b-ball competition from Davidson (though it's otherwise not as strong as the A-10). It seems a better regional fit than the CAA.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Seriously, WHOSE perception is that ECU is better than App State just because it's FBS, outside of Pirate fans? Granted, Kirk Herbstreit probably has that opinion, but I never hear anybody else say anything like that. Sure, in Texas, most people erroneously equate Division 1-AA football with intramural-quality. According to the results from Rice's study on switching to FCS, their fans were furious at the thought of "downgrading" to playing "no-names like Sam Houston State."

You're gonna make somebody's blood vessel explode. xlolx

[IndianaAppMan]

You're gonna make somebody's blood vessel explode. xlolx

Look, in no way is that intended to be a shot at Sam Houston State or any other 1-AA team. I'm just repeating what I read in Rice's study on going FCS, which they decided against partly based on their fans perception that FCS teams are weak. (To be honest, I'd have loved to have seen SHSU or another SLC team go into Rice and trounce them after reading that.)

[Dane96]

It is FCS....that was what he is getting at buddy.

[TXSUBobcat]

According to whom? Fans from here in Big Ten country to non-App fans in North Carolina to national radio hosts to ESPN (aside from Herbstreit) and Sports Illustrated, all I've heard is things like, "App State could probably walk into a lower-level conference right now and win it." No national writers ever even mention ECU. I mean, there's a reason ASU-LSU is on ESPN while ECU-West Virginia gets virtually no pub. Regardless of whether it's true that App is better than ECU, the perception is that, given App State's 3 straight titles and the Michigan game, App State IS better than ECU.



Well don’t get me wrong, I’m not knocking App. St.’s football team and I don’t want to get into a pissing contest about the public’s perception (because I can only go off of my unbiased, objective perception), they are a very good football team but you have to finish that with – in the FCS and they are the best right now; but would you agree that East Carolina has more talent on its roster (and usually more talent = better team)? Those 3 championships have done a lot for App. St., but they still are not going to help App. St. out recruit a FBS school.



Besides, the point was that 3 FCS titles can do more for a university (if marketed the right way, as Chancellor Peacock has done) than a good FBS team. As stated before, more people are applying at App, the average SAT's & GPA's for incoming freshmen are rising, and millions of dollars are pouring in. Texas State should ask Rice University how much being FBS helps rake in the millions. (Save the argument that FBS makes Rice a better school; Rice would be top-notch with or without football

I'd be interested to see how much USF's donations went up compared to App. St.'s donations.

[mizzoufan1]

Ok, let me see if I have this correct...

Big Sky: EWU, Idaho St., Mont., Mont. St., NAU, N. Colo., Port. St., Sac St., Web. St.

Big South: Char. South, CCU, G-W, Liberty, Presbyterian, Stony Brook, VMI

CAA: Georgia St. (2010)
North: Hofstra, Maine, UMass, UNH, NE, URI
South: Del., JMU, ODU (2009), Richmond, Towson, Villa., W&M

Great West: Cal-Davis, Cal Poly, UND, USD, SUU

Independents: Bryant (to NEC 20??), Iona, NCCU, Sav. St., S. AL (2010)

Ivy: Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard, Penn., Princeton, Yale

MEAC: B-CU, Del. St., FL A&M, Hampton, Howard, Morgan St., Norfolk St., NC A&T, SC St., WSSU (2009)

Missouri Valley: Ill. St., Ind. St., MO St., NDSU, UNI, SDSU, SIU-C, West. Ill., YSU

Northeast: Albany, CCSU, Duquesne, Monmouth (NJ), Robert Morris, Sacred Heart, St. Francis (PA), Wagner

Ohio Valley: Austin Peay, E. Ill., E. KY, Jax St., Murray St., SEMO, TN St., TN Tech, TN-Martin

Patriot: Buckenll, Colgate, Fordham, GT, HC, Laf., Lehigh

Pioneer: Butler, Campbell, Davidson, Dayton, Drake, Jacksonville, Marist (from Ind. 2009), Morehead St., San Diego, Valpo

Southern: App St., Chatt., Elon, Furman, GA South., Samford, The Citadel, W. Car., Wofford

Southalnd: C. Ark., Lamar (2011), McNeese St., Nicholls St., NW St., SHSU, SE LA, SFA, TX St.

SWAC:
Eastern: AL A&M, AL St., Alcorn St., Jackson St., MVSU
Wesern: AR-PB, Grambling, Prairie View A&M, Southern, TX Southern

Does this look right?

(the only reason I started this thread was to align my Fight Song CD with the current leagues...)

[bostonspider]

Random thought: This is, of course, just speculation, but I'm curious if there's ever been talk about Richmond in the SoCon. Richmond seems to have much in common, academically, with Wofford, Furman, Elon, Davidson, and Samford, most of whom are closer than the northeastern schools. It would get strong b-ball competition from Davidson (though it's otherwise not as strong as the A-10). It seems a better regional fit than the CAA.

Well I think UR is currently pretty happy with the A10 for basketball, pending of course the supposed B.E. Breakup and all the changes that may or may not entail. But if something happened and the Spiders along with the other football affiliates were forced out of the CAA, I think, that if the SoCon would consider them for a football only membership, they would definitely be interested.

[IndianaAppMan]

Well don’t get me wrong, I’m not knocking App. St.’s football team and I don’t want to get into a pissing contest about the public’s perception (because I can only go off of my unbiased, objective perception), they are a very good football team but you have to finish that with – in the FCS and they are the best right now; but would you agree that East Carolina has more talent on its roster (and usually more talent = better team)? Those 3 championships have done a lot for App. St., but they still are not going to help App. St. out recruit a FBS school.

Of course App State doesn't out-recruit ECU or other FBSers. I'm not saying that ASU is better than ECU. I do think we'd have a good shot against them, of course, but I personally don't think the odds would favor us. Still, the perception from most national media writers, if they even mention App State, is that ASU is on par with low-tier FBS conferences. That's probably not reality because we only have 63 schollys vs. 85, but the point is that perception has changed.


I'd be interested to see how much USF's donations went up compared to App. St.'s donations.

That's apples and oranges. USF is the third-largest university in the fourth-largest state. They're almost triple ASU's size. They're also in the Big East, which definitely would drive donations that would exceed 10 straight FCS titles. USF is also in a major metro area; ASU is in a town of 14,000. USF is not a fair comparison.

Better comparisons would be Western Kentucky, MTSU, Troy, Arkansas State, and other small-town schools that moved up to FBS recently. I would bet that ASU's donations are easily outpacing theirs.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

(the only reason I started this thread was to align my Fight Song CD with the current leagues...)

And look at what you did buddy!!! xlolx

[mizzoufan1]

And look at what you did buddy!!! xlolx

Yeah...guess I stirred up the Hornet's Nest (pun unitended Sac. State).:D

[TXSUBobcat]

That's apples and oranges. USF is the third-largest university in the fourth-largest state. They're almost triple ASU's size. They're also in the Big East, which definitely would drive donations that would exceed 10 straight FCS titles. USF is also in a major metro area; ASU is in a town of 14,000. USF is not a fair comparison.

Better comparisons would be Western Kentucky, MTSU, Troy, Arkansas State, and other small-town schools that moved up to FBS recently. I would bet that ASU's donations are easily outpacing theirs.

I was trying to find a school that was virtually unknown in football and that has had a good season recently. I don't consider them as having good seasons. maybe Wake Forest?

[DSUrocks07]

No I meant adding one of them to get to 12 schools in football.

My fault 813Jag, I included both our scenarios with NCCU, Savannah, VSU, and Union

as long as we can get to a traditional divisional format that can open up space for an extra OOC game I'm all for it. xthumbsupx 12 schools, 2 divisions, 11 games (possibly 12?), 7 conf, 4-5 OOC. This is how the MEAC can get out of the perception of being a "garbage conference". IMO this is how all of the Big South talk with DSU got started up around my area.

[DSUrocks07]

Yeah...guess I stirred up the Hornet's Nest (pun unitended Sac. State).:D

hey :(

xrulesx xpeacex

[IndianaAppMan]

I was trying to find a school that was virtually unknown in football and that has had a good season recently. I don't consider them as having good seasons. maybe Wake Forest?

Wake Forest is also not a fair comparison. Its endowment its enormous compared to App State's. Its athletics have been well-funded for a long time thanks to its basketball success/popularity. It's dead-center in ACC country. Despite being smaller, its alumni has far more money to give, considering they have a med school. Of course Wake Forest is going to raise more money than App State is.

As for Troy... that proves my point exactly. Teams with winning records in the lower-tier conferences are perceived as unsuccessful. They beat Oklahoma State last year, went 8-4 and finished 2nd in the Sun Belt. For a team so new to FBS, is that not successful? They've also been to bowl games twice this decade, winning one of them. Is that not successful? Yet the perception is that Troy's not good; you prove my point by saying "I don't consider them as having good seasons." App State, on the other hand, is never mistaken for being unsuccessful, and they're widely considered on par with teams like Troy. (Whether they truly are at this point is debatable. I personally think that any App State victory over any FBS team with a winning record would be an upset, but that's not the perception in general.)

Another thing, as a Texas State fan, if you think Troy is not successful after beating Ok State and going 8-4, what do you expect for Texas State's repuation to be if they did the same? Worse yet, the more likely case is that they'll be the next Buffalo Bulls; i.e., a team that wasn't even fit for FCS-level competition, much less FBS.

[Seawolf97]

Yeah, one thing that Stony Brook has demonstrated is that they are willing to move quickly on something that benefits THEM......and they are not afraid to throw money at something in order to get that accomplished. xthumbsupx

There really arent many opportunities to move up or around in FCS at present. So when the Big South offer came along it worked well for both Stonybrook and the Big South. Sometimes you just have to roll the dice.

[mainejeff]

UR will not be joining a northern FOOTBALL league, unless somehow it was a scholarship offering Patriot League. UR has nothing in common with the listed schools of the future A10 football conference.

Then why did Richmond join the YANKEE Conference???xrolleyesx

And that was back when the Southern most schools were UConn and Delaware.

[katstrapper]

Jason,

I, like many others around the SLC, think TxSU's kids are all in need of an @$$ whipping xasswhipx, and need to be put in time out.

But come on man, this is getting a bit old.



The bylaw's actually state that if a school does not give a 2 year advanced notice before they leave, they must pay the conference something like $500,000. They have not given notice, so unless they fork over the 500K I doubt they will leave before the 2010 season.

However, $500K is not hard to come by with 27,000 students and a guarantee or two.

In addition, the NCAA still has a moratorium of moving between Sub Divisions, so they still don't know if the NCAA will even allow them to move over to FBS. The NCAA might set some things in place that may make it impossible for them to switch Sub divisions in the short term anyway. We still don't know.

what if, they go back to the original 17,000 average over a 2 year period, or a 30,000 seat stadium requirement, which they used to do prior to the 2001 season? Only this time, make it ACTUAL attendance in stead of simply tickets sold.

Something tells me that the NCAA is not going to simply stay with the same old minimum standards for FBS. Not much point in having a moratorium on new entries unless you plan on either kicking people out, or making it harder to join. And I don't think they have the balls to kick any schools out.

Texas State can not meet either of those old requirements before they want to join FBS. There are only about 6 FCS teams that can do that now. And 3 of those 6 (SWAC schools) have no interest.

Just let it go man,

I certainly won't miss them. We do have a couple of friends there that we tailgate with and I wish them the best of luck (one of them would rather not leave the SLC), they are good people. But all in all, their students are their problem.

Besides, I'm thinking that TAM-CC will enter the SLC about the time TxSu leaves for doomdumb. Until them, let's just enjoy having another team to beat every year. Someone has to be on the bottom and they have done such a good job of playing for last year after year.

Amen!!xcoffeex

[bostonspider]

Then why did Richmond join the YANKEE Conference???xrolleyesx

And that was back when the Southern most schools were UConn and Delaware.


It was the best I-AA conference. And it was small enough that they still were able to play W&M, JMU (both independents) and VMI. But now they are in a conference with the first two schools (their main football rivals) with another future rival in ODU arriving, so why praytell would they ever want to leave said football conference for a "lesser" one? They were willing to leave it for a "better" basketball conference and the chance to more easily make it to the NCAA's (not that the move to the A10 has worked out even close to 100%), but not for a "lesser" one.

[DFW HOYA]

It was the best I-AA conference. And it was small enough that they still were able to play W&M, JMU (both independents) and VMI.

Back in the mid-1960's, here was the the Southern Conference lineup--times really have changed.

Davidson
The Citadel
Furman
George Washington
Richmond
VMI
Virginia Tech
West Virginia
William & Mary

[jcf5445]

Back in the mid-1960's, here was the the Southern Conference lineup--times really have changed.

Davidson
The Citadel
Furman
George Washington
Richmond
VMI
Virginia Tech
West Virginia

Times have changed a lot since then. By the time Division I was officially formed in 1973, the SoCon lineup was:

Appalachian State
Citadel
Davidson
East Carolina
Furman
Richmond
VMI
William & Mary

Davidson left after the '75 season, then East Carolina, Richmond, and William & Mary left after the '76 season. Those three were immediately replaced by Marshall, Tennessee-Chattanooga, and Western Carolina for the '77 season. East Tennessee State was then added going into the '79 season. Davidson sort of came back in the mid 80's but never played a full conference schedule before joining the Colonial (Patriot) League and quickly thereafter dropping to DIII. Then of course, Georgia Southern was added in '93, Marshall was replaced with Wofford in '97, VMI was swapped for Elon in '03, and ETSU dropped football following that season. Now Samford is on board for '08. All this means is that we shouldn't expect the lineup to stay the same.

[TXSUBobcat]

Besides, the point was that 3 FCS titles can do more for a university (if marketed the right way, as Chancellor Peacock has done) than a good FBS team. As stated before, more people are applying at App, the average SAT's & GPA's for incoming freshmen are rising, and millions of dollars are pouring in. Texas State should ask Rice University how much being FBS helps rake in the millions. (Save the argument that FBS makes Rice a better school; Rice would be top-notch with or without football.)

3 FCS titles and a good season in FBS (or simply just moving up to FBS) will do the same in terms of alumni donations, IMO. But in terms of recruiting, academics, and the overall perception of a University, there is no question that being in FBS and having a good season there will do much more than winning in FCS.

[mizzoufan1]

hey :(

xrulesx xpeacex

Sorry Del. State. But you are an East Coast team...xwhistlex

I am a Mid-MO boy that thinks of WEST of the Mississippi first...xrolleyesx

[galojay]

Better comparisons would be Western Kentucky, MTSU, Troy, Arkansas State, and other small-town schools that moved up to FBS recently. I would bet that ASU's donations are easily outpacing theirs.

Let's see some numbers....

[galojay]

Texas State also needs a conference. If they are selling only 2,500 season tickets, they can forget C-USA. Maybe WAC, maybe SBC. Doubtful on the SBC though. With USA coming up, that puts us at 10 football schools. If Denver ever finds a new home, we'd be down to 12 full members. Perfect size conference.

WAC might be interested, just to help poor ole La Tech sitting out in the Central Time Zone all by themselves.

But with only 2,500 season tickets, I don't see anyway how they would get 15,000 average attendance with the current rule. WKU sold 9,000+ season tickets last year and averaged around 17,000 attendance.

[McNeeserocket]

That is a nice little article that shows that you did in fact have a high number of student-athletes that qualified for the SLC honor roll. For that, your institution should be congratulated.

I don't want to bother looking up your frosh avg SAT stats which I am sure are much lower, but McNeese is considered a Fourth tier university not too mention a good number of your students come from some of the worst public schools districts in the country. The academics really don't compare here, sorry and it's no use arguing over it because we both know that Texas State and UT-Arlington have the best overall university academics of the SLC schools.

Ok. I really don't have the same strong feelings about Texas State that some SLC fans seem to have. Although, I must say that I find a disproportionate number of Texas State students who do go to the football games seem to enjoy making visiting fans feel very unwelcome.

I think comparisons and statistics are often times misleading and many times they are purposefully misleading. So to say that "My school is better than yours academically because.............probably has questionable validity. Using college entrance exams (SAT, ACT and others) may show some scholastic superiority of entering freshman, but only if you compare like entrance exams. As was mentioned, Texas State uses SAT exams and McNeese uses ACT exams, which makes direct comparisons difficult at best. However, I read recently that many universities/colleges either have quit requiring or will quit requiring standardized entrance exams, as the validity as an indicator of scholastic ability has been severely discredited of late (I believe even private institutions such as Baylor have decided to discontinue these entry requirements).

Using the GPA's of students when comparing the academics of different schools also has questionable merit for several reasons. First off, grades are not necessarily the only benchmark for how well educated student A is from USA-Univ. verses student B from America-Univ. Grades are subjective even within the same department at the same university.

So how do you do comparisons if you feel you must? I am certainly not an authority on the subject, but I think you could look at the following for a few ideas:

Is the university accredited by SACS? Certainly receiving SACS accreditation is a most unpleasant and long drawn out process that every university and college must go through every 5 or ten years. The lack of such accreditation means little to no financial aid to students from the federal govt. and means that achieving a masters or PhD from other universities is near impossible. In addition, many employers will look at whether a university is accredited by SACS when looking to employ a graduate from that university. The SACS accreditation process weighs a myriad of factors including the attainment of scholastic benchmarks set by SACS.

Are each of the Colleges and/or Departments fully accredited by the required accreditation entities? Example: Is your Engineering College and/or department fully accredited by The Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology (ABET)? Once again, each discipline accreditation entity has specific scholastic benchmarks which must be achieved.


If a university/college were fully accredited by SACS and all the Colleges and Departments were fully accredited by each of their accrediting entities then it would seem to suggest that the university/college must have not only been meeting or exceeding required national standards for degree offerings, but also that their students are matriculating and graduating in numbers successful enough to have met the standard.

I have no personal knowledge as to whether Texas State is SACS accredited or fully accredited in all of their College and Departmental accrediting sources. I do however know that McNeese recently was re-affirmed and accredited by SACS and at present all College and Departmental Accreditations are affirmed and certified.

Perhaps the Texas State fan, who sited the fact that McNeese was a Tier 4 school, could enlighten this board on what it means to be a Tier 1, 2 or 3 school as opposed to a Tier 4 school and how it relates to the quality of education a student would likely receive at either university. I do not possess such information. I suspect that the ratings may have something to do with size of enrollment, degree offerings, amount of funded research, cultural activities and offerings, extra-curricular clubs and associations available and overall student ratings from survey results.

[McNeeserocket]

3 FCS titles and a good season in FBS (or simply just moving up to FBS) will do the same in terms of alumni donations, IMO. But in terms of recruiting, academics, and the overall perception of a University, there is no question that being in FBS and having a good season there will do much more than winning in FCS.

You know this how? There are many universities that have made the move to FBS whose students may beg to differ.

[ngineer]

IMHO, the CAA will not stay together much longer, as it is currently constructed...

Georgia State and ODU are full CAA members and their entry into football will put pressure on the football-only members to move on...

UMass, URI, UNH, and Maine are associate members...I think the pressure is already building to do something...I'm not connected enough to know what will happen...but I don't see the CAA surviving past 2012 with all it's current football members...

Agreed, and don't forget Villanova. Perhaps the PL presidents will have extracated their heads from their arses by then and make an overture to someone...xrolleyesx

[Jackman]

At this point, the A10 is run by Xavier and other schools that don't care about football. Even if UMass had to leave the CAA, I wouldn't want a new conference under the A10 banner, they're idiots. Same goes for the AE. Maybe we could do something under the ECAC umbrella, they run the DIII Football playoffs and UMass/UNH/URI/Maine/SBU/Albany are all already members in some Division I ECAC sport or another.

The A10 won't do anything to Richmond if the CAA forces UMass and URI out but lets Richmond stay. The A10 administration sucks. More likely the CAA is the one that puts pressure on Richmond to pick a side. Villanova? If Delaware wants them around, the CAA probably allows them to hang in. They can't clear out all the affiliates, they only have 5 solid programs, 2 new startups, and a shaky Northeastern squad that will NOT be happy if their CAA mates vote all their nearby opponents out.

I really wish we could just disband all the eastern sports conferences and start over. They're all screwed up, Ivy League excluded. The institutions UMass should be in the same conference with are spread out among about 6 different current conferences.

[dbackjon]

I really wish we could just disband all the eastern sports conferences and start over. They're all screwed up, Ivy League excluded. The institutions UMass should be in the same conference with are spread out among about 6 different current conferences.

And what would those be?

[NSUDemon98]

That is a nice little article that shows that you did in fact have a high number of student-athletes that qualified for the SLC honor roll. For that, your institution should be congratulated.

I don't want to bother looking up your frosh avg SAT stats which I am sure are much lower, but McNeese is considered a Fourth tier university not too mention a good number of your students come from some of the worst public schools districts in the country. The academics really don't compare here, sorry and it's no use arguing over it because we both know that Texas State and UT-Arlington have the best overall university academics of the SLC schools.



Take a look here...

http://www.southland.org/fls/18400/pdf/record-book-commissioners.pdf

It's all there, black and white, clear as crystal! You lose! Good day, sir!

Seriously though, you will see that since the 1999-2000 school year, Texas State has finished the year above McNeese state in total points for the commissioner cup, which including this year is nine straight years. The CC is one of the best ways to look at the overall progress of the ENTIRE athletic department.

Vs. MSU...

Tennis: 03/09/08 at McNeese State Lake Charles, La. W, 6-1

Softball: Sat., May 3 at McNeese State Lake Charles, La. W, 2-0
at McNeese State Lake Charles, La. L, 7-6
Sun., May 4 at McNeese State Lake Charles, La. W, 4-1

Soccer: at MSU L 3-0

Vball: Oct 20, 2007 Lake Charles, LA McNeese State 3, Texas State 2
Nov 16, 2007 San Antonio, Texas Texas State 3, McNeese State 0

Baseball: 05/09/08 at Mcneese State ^ Lake Charles, La. W, 8-2
05/10/08 at Mcneese State ^ Lake Charles, La. W, 26-4 (7)
05/11/08 at Mcneese State ^ Lake Charles, La. W, 3-1

Basketball: 02/13/08 at Mcneese State Lake Charles, La. L, 81-77

Football Oct 06, 2007 San Marcos, Texas McNeese State 41, Texas State 20

W Basketball: 02/14/08 San Marcos, Texas (Strahan Coliseum) Texas State 99, McNeese State 50



xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex

I have to interject for a second. Everyone knows that the USNWR college rankings do nothing to measure the actual education going on in the classroom. Which is the total point of going to college, correct?

The most important things to USNWR are money, doctorates, how many doctorates, what % of your faculty hold the terminal degree of doctorate, degrees offered, and money. Also, the same accrediting agencies that evaluate Texas State are the same ones that evaluate NSU, McNeese, etc. About 10 years ago NSU also became the first Louisiana university to recieve 100% accreditation of all academic programs.

All they are good for are giving people egos, a reason to judge other people based on where they[other people] went to college, and message board arguments.

I know a few band directors who went to Texas State and they were no more prepared to enter the field than I was.

[MaximumBobcat]

I have to interject for a second. Everyone knows that the USNWR college rankings do nothing to measure the actual education going on in the classroom. Which is the total point of going to college, correct?

All they are good for are giving people egos, a reason to judge other people based on where they[other people] went to college, and message board arguments.

Hah, I agree 100%, I was just replying to some moron and was a little argumentative. xpeacex You can as good of an education in many disciplines at TxSt and NSU as you could at Harvard or Yale.